Giants Huddle | Mickey Spagnola

0:00It's time to get inside the Giants huddle. Attack this day with enthusiasm on Giants.com. Unknown demand car and the Giants mobile app part of the Giants podcast network. All right, welcome to another edition of the Giants Huddle podcast brought to you by citizens, the official bank of the Giants. I'm in the Hack and Sac and Realt podcast. You'll keep getting better. We're joined from Dallas Cowboys.com, front of the program. The one and only Mickey Spagnol to preview Sunday nights game between the Giants and Cowboys and Mickey. A second most frequent prime time matchup in the history of the NFL. I think Cowboys Eagles are the other ones. So I mean, we've seen this opening matchup of bajillion times between these two teams over the last 20 years. Yeah, absolutely. And it's almost like when I talk to folks, it's like, can they turn the page? It's always the boys in the Giants to start a season, right? And for the Cowboys, it's it basically starts a pretty tough opening month or so road schedule, having to play night games, having to play in Brazil,

1:05and then come home play a Thursday night game. The other part of it is then they finished this seven game stretch, John with two night games on the road at Green Bay and at at Philadelphia. So sleep deprivation. I don't know about for the players, but for an old guy like me, it's going to be tough. Yeah, and look, you better start fast. And you know, in the NFL, every game is just as important. There's only 17 of them. You got to win as many as you can to try to make the playoffs or win the division. And look, I think the Cowboys defense right now was just a big mystery box, Mickey. I think we have an idea of what Christian Parker is, what he wants to do. But more than half the starters are going to be different than last year. They really turned over the personnel. And I think a lot of times when you have that many changes, especially on defense, it does take time for the team to figure out the coach for the coach to figure out his players. What's your sense for what this defense might look like and how quickly they're going to be where they want to be in terms of being effective on the field?

2:09Yeah. And all that stuff needed to happen, right? When you are historically the worst defense in franchise history last year, you better change some things. And the fact that they have basically turned over the personnel on defense is a good thing. The fact that they've got a new innovative young defense of coordinator is a good thing. Now, I know they haven't showed much. No one shows anything in the preseason games, but at least we got to see the first line defense in two scrimmages against the Rams and against the Saints. And the word I keep using is encouraging. I think it's encouraging that they have shown progress over last year's debacle, defensively when they gave up the most points in franchise history,

3:10most passing yards in franchise history. If nothing else, it seems like they're more organized. I see fewer busted assignments. I see fewer miscoverages and in practice, but also in those scrimmages. So we got the opportunity to kind of see what they have in the scrimmages. And again, it was encouraging. They were better against the run, although they weren't supposed to be putting guys to the ground except the Saints had an exception to that. And we had a bunch of scrimmages. The two teams got fined, but I think it's better. Now again, you're right. It's a these guys have not played a regular seem regular season game together. And as a group and but it's a good thing. Let me put it this way to you. The three guys that started the opener last year at linebacker when they were in a four or three are no longer on the team.

4:14All right. And two of them are no longer in the league. The other guys on injured reserve for the rest of the season. So that kind of illustrates the turnover they had and the need for that turnover. I have in the play guys that either somebody else didn't think much of or the fact that they were playing a lot of young guys last year for the first time in the NFL. Not just playing, but starting. So it just looks better this year so far defensively. Yeah. I think the the the stat I saw that really jumped out of me is that the two cowboys that took the most snaps on defense last year were Donovan Wilson and Kenneth Murray. And neither one of those players are on an NFL team right now. And I think it tells you all you need to know about what the personnel situation was on defense last year. All right. Let's start a front make. We know the defensive tackle position is is in good shape. Right. Kenny Clark, Quinn and Williams. How about the edge spot, though? Or is that interior pressure going to be on the makeup? Maybe for that lack of having that Mike a person the style guy coming off the edge.

5:18Well, I think the what will make up for it is the sum of the parts. Okay. Rashon Gary's pretty good and the thing I like about him. He's a he willing player against the run. And I didn't realize how big he was. He's like 65 to 75. So he will set the edge and can give you a pass brush. I think Donovan as a rocker no longer is a rookie. I think he is matured and has improved. So you got him on the other side and then they brought in Von Miller as a designated pass russia. I don't know. He'll get 20 snaps again last year. He got 25. So that gives him another guy on the outside the rush the quarterback. And the one thing I've seen with Caleb Downs their first round draft choice.

6:18You know, they've got him playing in the slot and you know how much teams end up running their nickel instead of their base defense. And so he's going to be on the field and his versatility. I think also create some excitement on this defense. The fact that you know, it's not all about coverage. When you're in the slot, you do have to play the run and he's not opposed to sticking his nose in there to help or to blitz. So I think from a combined effort. John, they don't have guys hunting snack. The sacks the way they had over the past several years, right? They're, you know, been impressed upon play defense, play your part. Don't start chasing the football just because you want to have sacks. And you know, and and there was a little bit of that with Parsons the last couple years before they traded him. He was hunting sacks.

7:19You can't care about playing the run or setting the edge. And I think that Christian Parker has impressed about on this group that if everybody does what they're supposed to do, you're going to end up walking into sacks because you're going to force things to come to you if you do your job. So again, I don't see that they've got anybody hunting sacks. They're playing defense. And so I think that's how they replace what they didn't have last year. When they traded Parsons, what basically this week of the regular season, right? Four rookies on defense, Mickey. I think all of them are going to play right and contribute in some way, shape or form. How quickly have those guys hit the ground running? How much are we going to see them in terms of defense this year? Well, I think you'll see a lot of Caleb downs. I think Malachi Lawrence will be kind of a rotation guy. And then the other guy that's certainly impressed, not only in training camp

8:23practices, but the scrimmages, J. Sean Barham, the, let me put it this way to you. I know he played middle linebacker at Maryland. I know he played defensive end at Michigan. And when he got here, everybody wanted to talk to him about what, what do you think you are? Are you a middle linebacker or you defensive end? And they must have asked him those questions repeatedly at like, and here was his stock answer. I play football and I go, that's what I want to hear from my middle linebacker. Right? I'm not going to get pigeonholed into I'm this or I'm that just put me on the field. And he's been mighty impressive. Now again, playing middle linebacker in the NFL is a little different than do it in colleges, the responsibilities increase, but they haven't shied away from in practices, rotating him in there and also not afraid to put the green dot in his helmet too.

9:24So I'm really interested to see how they use him, how much they use him and then how he adapts to playing in the NFL because he can be a thumper in the middle. If a team wants to load up and say, okay, we're running right at you. So I think those three guys for sure and then we'll see what happens with the other guys that are on the roster, if they're able to rotate in. But again, they, they secured the rights to all seven of their draft choices, either on the 53 or on injured reserves. So that was also encouraging on how they built this roster not only through free agency, but through the draft also. All right. In the secondary reworked cornerback core, the Ron Blanc's healthy, Shavon Revelle is now going to be healthy only after playing a few games last year. They're bringing Kobe to rant. Do they feel like they're going to get better overall coverage outside from this group than what they got last year when you saw a lot of frankly blown coverages and guys

10:27kind of just running free all year. Yeah. And guys that had never played in the league. Just think about. Tri Cres bridges was brought in right about now last year. And he would already been released as a rookie corner. And I believe it was the chargers and all of a sudden, at some point in the season, this guy starting for the cowboys. All right. Now, you know, he didn't make the team. He's on the practice squad. So that kind of tells you how they upgraded that position. Kobe, Durant and Shavon Revelle been rotating at the other cornerback spot. You mentioned a bland being healthy. I think that helps Durant's versatile. He can go in and play the slot also. So yeah, I think the cornerback position is much better. And I think they're really assignment sound. The one thing I've noticed with with Caleb Downs playing in the slot, you know,

11:28it's not all about man-to-man coverage. It's sometimes you got to play zone. And he seems to have the discipline and the understanding to say, okay, this is my area. I can't just go Willie Nilly everywhere else on the field chasing the ball. I got to play my spot. And I think he's been pretty good at that. Now, again, it's a rookie having to play his first game in the NFL on the road at night on national TV. But I think he's mature enough to handle it. So I think all that I keep using the word encouraging because we haven't seen it, but it seems to be more solid from a personnel standpoint. And then finally, inside linebacker, Mick, we mentioned Kenneth Murray no longer there. They bring in the winters. You mentioned Barham already. Demarvian overshoot. I think another guy they hope is going to be better another year off that bad knee injury that he had. Is that a position where I've kind of read where maybe they're still hunting to maybe try to get an improvement at some time along the year?

12:29Where are they in terms of their inside backers? I think when they look at it, if there's an improvement, you kind of worry about the depth factor at that position, they only got four ins, what they're listening as inside linebackers, Schemaar James, who by the way, as a rookie last year. And this guy gets overlooked. He only played three years in college at Florida. And he ended up with this. He was the second leading tackleer on this team last year. So he's a backup. What they're hoping is Demarvian overshown does what they're hoping he can do. Now that he's healthy, he's had an off season that he didn't have to rehab, a torn ACL for a change. And he's had two of those. So again, they're expecting big things from him. But I haven't seen him other than in those practices in the scrimmage man that inside linebacker, if they're going to be in a three, four.

13:31Now if they're in their nickel, when they're basically, it's a four to front. I like to see him on the move in space. So I think that one has to be proven. But again, like I said, they'll rotate J. Sean Barham in there. If it's like heavy runsets from the offense. So it is a little bit of an unknown because you're basically with three new guys as your top three inside linebackers and we'll see how they adapt to it. But I think it helps that they'll be more solid up front. I think Quinion Williams is a heck of a player. Kenny Clark, you know, I don't need he's been proven. Rashan Gary. So it was a funny thing, John, probably writing about it tomorrow on Dallas Cowboys.com. But in the last preseason game before the game during warmups and those guys, the front line guys weren't going to play.

14:33And I turned around and looked at the bench where these guys were sitting. And it was Gary, Quinion Williams and Kenny Clark sitting together. And I said to myself, look at that. That is so much difference than last year because if you remember, Quinion didn't get there to the trade deadline. Kenny Clark showed up basically this week a year ago. And Rashan Gary wasn't there. So I thought that was kind of a sign of what they've done with this roster. Now can it all come together in a hurry with so many new guys starting? That remains to be seen. But I told somebody the other day. I said, you know what? Last year in the anahean had all these transfer guides from the portal and they went undefeated. So there is a way to get new guys together to play in concert and do the things they're supposed to do. Now we'll see how well they do them. Hey, giants forever.

15:33Love you, Eli. Oh, thanks. It's been a minute since I played. And if you're still banking like you were back then, it's time to switch the citizens. They've got an enhanced mobile app to pay bills, checkered credit score and chat with citizens. AI assistant. Plus they're the official bank of me, Eli Manning and the New York Giants. Go big blue and go to citizens bank.com slash giants. OK, I will make sense of your money with citizens. Remember FDIC. From draft day to game day, every moment matters to giants fans and the big moments off the field. Those matter too. Citizens helps big blue fans make sense of their money by drawing up a game plan for what's next. Citizens official bank of the New York Giants start your game planning at citizens bank.com slash giants. And I'm Mickey. I don't want to spend the whole interview on the defense, but I do think it's more interesting side of the ball. I think the biggest addition might be Christian Parker, right? I mean, he's a guy that to your point, get everything together. I think I read somewhere they didn't have a mistackle in any of the preseason games, which is something different than what we saw last year.

16:35Is this Parker defense and what you've seen and what he said at his press conferences, going to be very fangioish? Is he going to put his own little slant on it? Do you have any idea what this thing might ultimately look like? Yeah, I think a little bit of his own slant. And again, preseason games, right? Everybody's vanilla. They're not going to show anything. And basically they were pretty vanilla when they competed in those, screwed those two scrimmages. So we're going to get a better idea of what he's got in mind. Because they keep making a big deal of transitioning to a three, four. Okay, fine. But I went back and looked last year just for comparison, say 70% of the time they were in nickel, right? So three, four, four, two, you know, but the one thing I have noticed in, I think I mentioned it earlier, fewer busted assignments and they seem to be in those scrimmages much better against the run.

17:39And I think if you've got a front like that that can hold down the four against the run, they were terrible John against the run. You know, I don't know what they're ranking ended up being. All I know is 12 of 17 games. They gave up more than 100 yards rushing and sometimes 200 yards rushing. Okay. So if they're better against the run, then that's a start right there. And you know, I'm sure just knowing Harbaugh's history and what he likes to do. He's going to run it right at him, right? Yeah, he's going to run it right at him. And we'll find out right away if they're better against the run or not. Yeah, absolutely right. All right, let's jump to the offense here, Mickey. And I think the only question is really offensive line, right? Tyler Smith's not going to play TJ Bass. I know it was a nice job as a backup, but he's not Tyler Smith. And then right tackle what's going on there? How big of a jump to Tyler? Guy can take it in his 30 year in the summer. Give me the low down of what's happened on that offensive line. Yeah. So I think Guy has improved.

18:41I think he has been more dedicated to his craft and he's healthy. So he's not having to fight through injuries. And when he did, he had a little bit of an elbow deal and training camp twice. And it was two different things. He only missed a practice or two. So he learned that sometimes you got to fight through things. So I think I see improvement there. Terrence steals Terrence steel, right? I think a really good run blocker. Sometimes he needs help against the past. That's no different than what it's been. But when everybody wants to talk about this offensive line, and I know, you know, it's hard to replace an alt pro guard and Tyler Smith, who I think some people think was the best is the best guard in the NFL. TJ Bass. Here's what they thought of him. He was a restricted free agent this year. And they tendered him with a second round draft choice.

19:43Meaning if they didn't match somebody's offer tender, that they'd get a second round pick and return. We're talking a rookie undrafted free agent, right? That's how he got into the league. But they thought enough of him to say, OK, we're going to spend $5.7 million on our backup center guard, just in case because in their mind was if Guyton didn't come around, Tyler Smith was going to have to go out to left tackle. And TJ Bass was going to be the starter. Well, because of injury, TJ Bass is the starter. And at least he started 10 games in the league. So I think from the offensive line standpoint, and think about this last year, they were second in the NFL in total yards. So somehow with those two tackles and and Guyton missing a bunch of games, they managed to, you know, come up with the second and most total yards to the ramps.

20:46And so they did something right with this offensive line. Sometimes I think over analysis kind of gets in the way. Do you want better? Sure. But this is what they got. And if they got a help at times with Terence Steel, so be it. You know, they they they sign broadrick Jones and brought him in and say, well, he's going to challenge, right? Well, he's had two padded practices. How much challenge can you make? Right? Now, if you have to get in the game and you show something, a veteran guy that's been around, that's a different story. But I think from an offensive line standpoint, this offensive line produced a quarterback that threw for what 4500 yards or running back that ran for 1200 yards and 2 1000 yards receivers. So somewhere along the line, the offensive line had to be something, had to do something to produce numbers like that. Are we expecting any significant wrinkles in how this offense is going to run Mickey,

21:50Clay Adams is back. Obviously, Shotheimer is still going to call a place. He is back. You know, maybe the fact that I can be playing from behind because the defense might be better. Maybe that allows the offense to put a little bit differently, but have they talked about trying to do anything differently? I think how much they had. Yeah, I think shot and Heimers word that he's used all off season training camp preseason. We need to evolve, meaning you can't be the same. You got to continue to improve because everybody else is going to come after you. And they've seen what you did all last year. So wrinkles, standpoints. Nah, I don't know how much, but I do know that they're going to have to make a concerted effort to make sure defenses don't get away with double teaming both of their pro bowl wide receivers. If is that mean the tight ends got to be more involved? People say that around here. And they forget that last year Ferguson had 82 catches, right? Second on the team.

22:51Now they weren't downfield threatening the defense catches more of a written outlet type catches. Can they can they use Javante Williams in different ways other than just handing him the ball? And I think from a running back room, you got three sort of veteran guys because Malik Davis has been around the block at time or two now in the NFL. They traded for DeMarcardo. And I think that brings another veteran guy in the room. So I think they realize they have to remain versatile. They can't be one dimensional. And like you said, if they just so happen to get a lead because the defenses playing better, if you remember, Shottenheimer, when he was with the Jetson, when he was in Seattle, they had top 10 rushing offenses and a couple times top five. So you know, he, you know, he's just the shot in Heimer approach, right?

23:56Going back to his dad, he's going to want to run the ball if they can sustain that and not have to play so much catch up as they did last year. No, I'm with you on that. George Peckins, if he shows that last year wasn't a one year one there, right? And he's good getting the meetings on time, serious stays healthy. It seems like the Cowboys for an office turned up the aggression meter a little bit this off season with how they're approaching play acquisition and contracts. Could you see Pickins becoming a long term addition to this team by, you know, maybe pushing some money back on some of these contracts. And even when they sign Pickins, where you're trying to keep this group together, if they show that yeah, this can be really special. If everything works out this year, they are pulling for him to have a repeat. Season, right? They want to sign him to a long term deal. But the way they structured things this year, it's like, okay, show me. Yeah, show me again, right? Let's make sure this one as Bill Parcells used to say a one hit wonder, right?

24:59Can you can you show some consistency? Yeah, somebody asked me the other day, we had to answer this question. Can they have three 1000 yard receivers? And I'm going, okay, look, only four times in their history when the tight end wasn't involved. Had they had two 1000 yard receivers. The first time ever, they've had two pro bull ride receivers. So they will figure out how to be able to pay him if he and Lamb have the type of seasons they had last year. And remember, Lamb missed like four games and he still had a thousand yards of receiving. So it's a pretty good duo. And again, like I said, Ryan Fulnoi has picked up the slack there. He he put it in perspective. I think the start of training camp, he told me, you know, I came in here last year at this time as the number six wide receiver. Now I'm the number three wide receiver. So from a receiving standpoint, and that isn't even consider

26:03Cavanteur Pyn how they can rotate him in, use his speed. And then Jonathan Mingo came out of nowhere in training camp. He was a non entity last year. And he makes the team. I figured when we start training camp, this guy doesn't have a chance in hell, right? And he shows up and all of a sudden he's playing special teams. He's chasing guys down in preseason games from behind on returns. So it's a pretty solid room. And I think that the combination of the group, you know, could be pretty lethal providing and we can go back to the offensive line. That press got has time to operate in the pocket. All right. Finally, Mickey, I'm going to leave this as an open floor question to you. I know the national expectations are very high. I'm assuming locally the expectations are probably even higher knowing how cowboy fans like to operate. Is there anything else that we should know about this team or this cowboy season as it begins here on Sunday, 19, 2026?

27:06Well, I think everybody from afar is looking at the improvement of the personnel. And I know fan reaction, you know, how people are, right? But in training camp, even the outside people, the people from California, they showed up for practices, doubling probably what they showed up the previous year. So they spent something was happening here, right? I think people got excited about the first three draft choices. They got excited about the additions they made in in free agency. I haven't even mentioned Jalen Thompson now starting at safety. Now PJ lock is in addition back there also. So they've made some moves to help improve this team and they haven't hesitated, right? So that tells me from Jerry Jones to Steven Jones to Will McClay,

28:09they see something in this team. That's why they've made some of the moves they made. Because last year, they're not bringing in Von Miller and saying, okay, we're going to spend $6 million on this guy. They're not going to bring in broadric Jones, right? To bring in a guy that has some experience, Lincoln, Tomlinson, they just signed as a guard to the practice squad. They've got guys on the practice squad right now, veteran guys that would be on the 53 man roster last year. So the depth is better. The signs are better. Now can you go out and play, right? The way I put it, if the offense is the offense and the defense can go from 30 to 15th, they might be pretty good. But again, got to see it first before you sit there and go, oh, they're going to win 12, 13 games. I don't know what that word to that point watching as closely as we do.

29:12All right, Mickey. Tell the folks if there are giant fans out there that want to get a little more inside on the Cowboys heading into the game on Sunday night working, they find all the great stuff that you're doing. Yeah. Dallas Cowboys.com. And by the way, speaking of giant fans, I ran into one the other day in a restaurant. And he, of course, everybody's got a podcast, right? Well, he's got all his giants stuff on. He's got medals and chains and wanting me to go on his podcast. And I was like, okay, I think I can't care of my buddy John before I jump on anything. You've got, but there are giant fans here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I love it. Mickey, good stuff, my friend. I'm going to talk to you on on your show in about, I don't know, three hours or so. Have looked forward to that. And I'll see you on Sunday night, my friend. Always a pleasure. Look forward to having you on and look forward to seeing you all these years. John, take care. That's Vicki Spagnola, Dallas Cowboys.com. And the giant subtle podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. And the Hack and Sack Breed Health podcast studio keep getting better.

30:12We'll see you next time, everybody. Hey, giant fans. Join Citizens Official Bank of your New York Giants this Saturday at their Easter other for New Jersey branch for a pep rally to kick off big blues news season. Meet Giants Legends, enter for a chance to win tickets to the home opener and score some Giants merch. Learn more at citizensbank.com slash Giants.