Trump HUMILIATED By His New $400M Qatari Jet!

0:00Losing weight can become a full-time job if you let it. What am I eating? Did I work out? Am I making progress? Why did the scale go up? It can be exhausting. And that's why I like the idea of having actual support instead of just trying to figure everything out by yourself. Weight loss by hymns offers access to FDA-approved GLP1 medications, including the Wigovie pill and Wigovie pen. With Wigovie at hymns, you can lose up to 20% of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. It helps regulate your appetite, eat less, and keep weight off. And there's now a Wigovie pill, so you have a no-needle option. Everything happens online. A licensed provider determines if treatment is right for you. And if prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door. You also get access to 24-7 messaging with your care team and nutrition and lifestyle support. Ready to reach your goals? Visit hymns.com slash Don Leman to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you.

1:01That's h-i-m-s dot com slash Don Leman. Hems dot com slash Don Leman. Weight loss by hymns is not available in all 50 states. Wigovie is the registered trademark of NOVO Nordic AS to get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wigovie clinical study information, and restrictions visit hymns.com. Hello, Lemon Nation. It is 5 o'clock-ish 5 p.m. Eastern time here on the Don Leman, Chair on the Don Leman Channel. Thank you very much for joining us, Lemon Liner 5. You know the first sort of business, the like and the thumbs up. It does affect the algorithm. And more importantly, we're going to be doing a lot of things to help you get your goals. It does affect the algorithm, and more people become aware of our conversation on our channel. Now, let me just tell you this. I know Donald Trump has no shame, right? No shame, but this is embarrassing. This is embarrassing when you have a plane this expensive,

2:03something this expensive, and then it ends up looking like a fucking pool toy. Roll it, Andy. They're looking right now at the footage just moments ago. That is the emergency slide on what would be the cargo side of the plane. That is the plane that was gifted to the president from the guitarist. As you can see, it is deployed. Just moments ago, the president leaving Marine one, which is the helicopter that takes him to joint base Andrews, and of course, reporters waiting for him on the tarmac, ask him exactly what's going on. This is the way he described the situation. We'll play how he describes the situation a little bit, but I want to get in my take on this. I don't care how you slice it. I don't care how many excuses he makes. They told his ass about this plane. They told him about this plane. They warned him about this plane. It's a gift. The Air Force One, the one that we have is old, and it's embarrassing. And you know, the president, it's not the fitting of

3:04President of the United States. It's just all kinds of stuff like that. All kinds of stuff like that. As it turns out, we know that that's not the truth. According to at least my source, which is a very good one, which is Gavin Newsom, but standby. You'll hear from Gavin Newsom in a minute who has his ideas. And he says he's got the tea and the receipts about why Donald Trump wanted this plane and fought to get it when they said it was a gift. It was him. We, the taxpayers paid $400 million to have it retrofitted. So Donald Trump was warned about this plane. He was warned by intelligence officials. He was warned by military officials. He was warned by national security experts. People who understand what it takes to protect an American president in the air. And then he took the stupid plane anyways. He rushed it into service anyway. And now a giant plastic slide, show me this slide Andy, a giant plastic slide is hanging down the side of his $400 million

4:12dollar lemon. It's a lemon. Remember, it's not the first incident. Remember, we could talk about that. A $400 million as one of the streamers or one of the content creators calls it, Cotari bribe jet or his bribe jet. It's hanging down like a pool slide at a water park. If you're in Louisiana, it's blue by you. That's the water park there. Maybe it's six where some of you are. Or maybe it's just a bajankiti slide that people have on their pool. I know because we had one. You use it and it gets so worn out. It is embarrassing. Look, I mean, come on. Remember, I told you about we called it the the White House Hill billies. When you put all that tacky gold shit in, and then he put the thing, the big UFC thing on the front lawn, embarrassing. Look at the damn thing. The president lands at joint base, Andrews,

5:14aboard Marine One, ready to fly to Dallas, and he cannot get on his big, beautiful, big, shiny new jet. He sits in the helicopter for about 20 minutes going, well, I'm sure he's like, what the hell is going on? There's embarrassing. What is going on? Well, Air Force personnel, wrestle with this huge inflatable slide just blowing around on the tarmac. Air Force One is supposed to be the most sophisticated presidential aircraft craft in the world. This one looks like somebody, as I said, is setting up a water ride at six flags, and then Trump gets out of the helicopter. He acts as though, oh, it's no big deal that nothing happened. And then he walks over to the reporters, roll it. I'm there checking the slide over here, and I think it's going to take 15 minutes. They were doing a check on the slide, you know? And the emergency, so I think it takes about 15 minutes. Mr. President, do you know why they're checking the slide? Is there a security turn at the plane?

6:15No, they were checking it before, and they just wanted to make sure, so they've, I guess they've already put it up. They want to make sure everything works perfectly. Mr. President, how are you sure this plane is safe to fly? Yeah, I am. Or I wouldn't be honest. Really? Did he say that? That would may have to like hustle him out on a food trolley, on a catering trolley, as the Brits say, to safety, so that he could go back to the real air force one, that had the things in place that he needs. The emergency slide, oh, yeah, checking on it, please. The emergency slide deployed shortly before the President was supposed to board the plane. Isn't it checking it? It deployed. His departure was delayed because guess what? You know how you know it's bullshit because they don't check that while the President is there sitting on a helicopter. They do all their checks before, so they had to deflate it.

7:18They had to remove it and they had to haul it away. One of the older Air Force One planes was standing nearby. As a backup, you know, the ones that he's supposed to have the real Air Force One's, it had the stairs in place and it was ready to go. You know why? Because that's his job. That's his job. A reporter asked Trump, you sure the Cotari plane is safe because, yeah, it's a blurry. I wouldn't be on it. Sure. Sure, Jan. Sir, you are the President of the United States. This Air Force One, or whatever you want to call it, the Cotari bribe jet. He says, I wouldn't get on it if I didn't think it was safe. That sounds like somebody getting on a ride at the State Fair after watching a teenager tighten the bolts. You know those, look, all of those carnivals and fairs that come to town, God bless them, God bless the Carnies. God bless you guys for getting on those rides. But those rides go up and down.

8:21That won't say it. More than an elevator. They take him apart. Now I won't even say it. And this did not come out of nowhere because people, as I said, one Trump about this plane before he ever started flying around on it. Military, national security professionals, all of it. They raised the concerns about taking a used aircraft from a foreign government and trying to turn it into Air Force One. Donald Trump's timetable, you know, they raised questions. They said, what? What's going on? They talked about the surveillance, about secure communications, about defensive systems, an enormous amount of work that was required to inspect every inch of this foreign-owned aircraft, it's craft. Before the President starts conducting the business of the United States inside of it, they told him about that. This plane was built for the Cotari Royal Family. It was designed to be luxurious. Air Force One has a very different role.

9:22It is not meant for kings and amirs and princes and any of the sorts. It carries the President through wars, terrorist threats, national emergencies. The existing planes have sophisticated missile defenses. They have electronic countermeasures that harden communications and protections that allow the President of the United States to remain in command if the United States comes under attack. That, let me tell you why. As we're about to mark the 25th anniversary of 9-11, you guys don't remember. Bush was in, President Bush was in the classroom with the kids. Someone comes over, I forget who was. Was it Ashcroff? Somebody comes over. It says, hey, there's been a terrorist attack and he's reading to kids.

10:22And then they put him in the air, not telling anyone where he was going. I don't know if you guys remember that. If you're old enough, if you're people of a certain age, you realize that for a while, Air Force One, which is the most secure plane in the world, was flying around so that the terrorists could not get the President. This plane does not have that technology and that security. And Gives me chills. Because the President had fighter jets flying with him out Air Force One, stealthy probably did not need that, but he needed the extra security, the extra precaution. This guitar, a jet has none of that. And he does not know. I know they probably had it sweet, but I wouldn't put anything past any of those people. This guitar jet was entered without all those protections.

11:22And I wouldn't put anything past because you know, you can hide in paint, you can hide. Look, there's technology there that you don't know about. Nowadays, I saw this thing, I saw this ad. I don't know if you guys saw it, that you can put something that looks like a credit card in your wallet. You can find your wallet anywhere and the shit beeps and everything. So if someone stills your wallet, you can find it. You don't know people can put things in size of a P and something. That they can be able to track it, but still he didn't care. Big luxurious, luxurious, expensive, and free, according to him. So he kept saying American taxpayers were spending hundreds of millions of dollars converted this supposedly free airplane. He kept saying it was free. And but that's what was happening. American taxpayers were paying for it. This retrofit was expected to cost as much as $400 million. And even after all that money, Trump wanted the work accelerated because he wanted to fly on it while he was still president. And he said, oh, it's going to go to the presidential library. Really? Now, let's tell you exactly

12:26how this plane came to be. But first, let me just tell you, I just want to say, do you remember, I real quickly remind you remember what happened in Turkey when he flew the guitar I played into this NATO summit? And then when it was time to leave, it suddenly announced that he would be aboard the older Air Force One for old times sake, right? All that bullshit. That's the explanation. That was bullshit. And then there was the other credible threat. There was another one I believe there were three of them that was connected to a rod. And the security officials did not want him leaving Turkey aboard the guitar I jet. So one of them, I think he boarded the, there were two different ones. One he boarded the older Air Force One in front of the cameras and then he slipped out through another door. Yeah, that's what happened. They concealed the president of United States inside an airport catering truck and then they drove him across a tarmac. And they placed him aboard a smaller military aircraft.

13:28That's what I get. That's what happened. And then he left people on board and some of them were upset. They're like, wait a minute. Why didn't you take me with you but he took Natalie Harp. Now let me tell you how this plane came to be. Because we interviewed someone who spoke to the people or to him that gifted the plane the Trump bribe plane to Donald Trump. This is what Governor Gavin Newsom told me just days ago. I was with the person that got the phone call by the way. The Munich met representative of the Cartagotary government. Sat there, Don True Story. He said he had to leave. We were having a quick meeting. I don't know why I was even in this room. Was with all these fancy people, Munich. The representative says, well, I got to catch a plane and I couldn't help myself. I said, well, you have a plane. I thought you gave it to Donald Trump. And I thought I made a mistake. All these folks were turned around like I defended. And he goes, can I talk to you about that? I said, yeah, sits back down.

14:29Tells me the phone call he received from Donald Trump. I did not know this. You may know this. You're a fancy reporter. You probably reported this. I didn't know this. That he got the idea, Trump, of the $400 million plane because Erdogan got a plane. Same plane, same model. The fed up. Really? And he heard about that. So he said, well, wait a second. What about me? And the representative of the Cartagotary government goes, put yourself, sir, in my position. We've got troops at the border. And he mentioned five other issues. He goes, what would you have done? I said, well, I want to know what you did. But at least I understand from your perspective. And then he begged me to say that it's, he said, it's not a personal gift. I said, yes, it is. That's one of the contracts. It says it's not. I said, it's a personal gift. Personal gift. Let's go live to Washington, DC right now. I'm going to bring in Washington, DC correspondent Daniel Grimes. Also, Jolly Gajinger, who is in the DC area. I mean, I mean, excuse me.

15:33The, oh, Jay, the original correspondent, you are muted, Jolly. So, so, so, you boomer. Sorry, I had a couple of firemen carrying me in here. And they were just putting me down. So, sorry about that. Too big. I'm already a big strong handsome guy. Big strong. I was like, guys, put me down. I can, I can walk on my own. You can, yeah. You like the style. It's not really a dark limit show. Yeah. Daniel, what's the reporting in Washington? What's the word? Are people saying anything about this? Yeah, so, Don, you definitely hit it and covered it well in terms of, I just think the old Air Force one would not have been there ready to go with steps down if they were just running a simple security check. And as you noted, they would do that well before the president. They're going to waste the president's time by doing a security check with the president. And on there. So, that 20-minute delay that he had was not because of a routine security check. So, just more lies by the president.

16:33And we knew that. I mean, Jolly, you're in the military. You know that they do not check a slide or a plane by the president. First of all, I got to push back here, Don. I've written lots of planes and every single plane I've ever been on, one of the things that they just do on centers that deploy the slide. You guys know this. You've written Airplane before. Yes. You deploy the slide. You get everybody off the airplane. You spend 30 minutes putting the slide up. You guys don't go through this every time you fly. Like, listen, this guy taught me to... I do. Every time I fly, I'm like, I just want to make sure that I get on first, because I want to be the first down the slide. Yes, that's there you go. I'm going to play it. Okay, this guy talks to everybody else. Like, we're just like idiots that we don't know what happens in the real world. The fact that this slide was deployed is a huge red flag. Now, obviously, there's a lot of speculation out there as to what caused it. There's some insider sources saying one thing. Then there's other insider sources and other things.

17:33So I don't actually know what it was. But what I do know is something's wrong. And this, by the way, you mentioned it already, Don. This is following in short order from him being escorted off this very same plane in a fucking food cart like Taylor Swift at her last concert. And by the way, that's utterly embarrassing. And I shouldn't have invoked Taylor Swift's name there because, you know, they're mortal enemies. But Taylor Swift, she gets brought into her concerts by food carts because that's the only way to get her in. And that's how apparently Donald Trump gets off of planes. But two times in a period of two months, this plane is exactly the security risk that everybody said it was. You're right. I was in the military. And one thing I know from working security in the military, I was on a security detail for a four-star general for two years. And I worked a lot with the security guys. I do a lot of the planes, both the general's planes and the president's planes. Those planes are treated completely different than any other aircraft.

18:35So the fact that we received this aircraft from a foreign government was hastily put through a check. And now in a period of two months, we've had these multiple issues, security issues back to back. I think it's very, very clear that not only is this a security risk to the president, this is a security risk to the United States of America. Visa V Donald Trump. Well, thank you. Hey, stand by Daniel and Jolly because I get to get to something. Hold on. We have some breaking news. We have a very special guest. We're going to get back here and talk about, continue to talk about this in a moment and talk about Jolly, the 9-11. Jolly says he's got to go. Jolly, oh, whatever. Go do your thing. I didn't say that, Don. I never said that. All right, well, stand by. Sit down. He's a big brother. I'm saying about brother. Cool your jets. That is appropriate right now. I was just going to die. If you guys want to pop on in a second and talk about it, raise your hands if you want to discuss. I want to bring into it, Rokkana though, Congresswoman from California. Congresswoman Kahnat, thank you. We really appreciate you joining us. Congresswoman, there's so much to discuss.

19:35We have Donald Trump's lies about 9-11. But then, how many people, security officials, congressman, warned Donald Trump about this jet and now he's, this is a second incident he's had. It looks like a ride at an amusement park today with the plastic slide, the inflatable slide. Don, it's an embarrassment to the country. First of all, the corruption that our Middle East foreign policy is being determined because of the Qatar's, I mean. Oh, your signal is not a embarrassment. Yeah, your signal is not good. It's breaking up a little bit. I can hear you now. Yeah, but it wasn't good for a while. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Continue please. Okay, apologize. The first point about it is that it is a corruption with Donald Trump's Middle East foreign policy being influenced literally by the Middle East.

20:37The second thing is there's a reason we don't have gold plated jets here. We're not monarchs. We are supposed to have things that look functional. And Donald Trump is basically trying to copy the monarchs of the Middle East. And then third, the security risk. I mean, there's a reason. Can you believe me and make stuff in America, manufacturing things in America is flying around in a plane with security risks, with everything made outside America. I mean, it's it's sad. Yeah. According to Governor Gavin Newsom, who I spoke to the other day, he, I think it was Erdogan. Did he say Erdogan had one? He said that it was the same plane. He wanted the same one at a plane because Erdogan got one. But then his spiel or cell to the American people is that, oh, the Air Force one is old. The American president deserves something better. The plane was free. He wanted it because another strong man had one and he wanted to emulate him.

21:41Yeah. And look, the Air Force planes, I mean, I've flown on them. Obviously, when you have a congressional trip overseas, you go on an Air Force plane. They're not fancy. They're not designed to be fancy. They don't have golden interiors. They don't have frills. They are supposed to be functional airplanes. And Donald Trump said, no, he wants a plane that has all the opulence, like the opulence of the palaces of Versailles, the popular, the Windsor Castle. He wanted the grandeur of a head of state. And he wants the grandeur of what strong men have. We fought a revolution against that. It's not because America can't afford to build those kind of jets. It's because we purposely don't believe that the president is a king. And Donald Trump wants to act like he's a king. And that's why he really got suckered by the guitarries into this whole jet.

22:41I want to play this for you. Congressman, this is Donald Trump speaking just days ago about what he says where his experiences, someone rescuing him during 9-11. I forget, too fireman. We thought it was coming down on top of us and too fireman. Big strong guys. And I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arm, said, gotta get out of here. And they literally lifted me up. This is not easy to do. I'm big. They lifted me up and they started running with me. I said, fellas, I can run myself. But they were amazing. But they thought it was coming down. It didn't come down. You asked you. No, there's no evidence that he was there doing not during 9-11. He says that it was days later. Still, again, no evidence of that. He's making this up. That, everyone I speak to, the families, all of them. I spoke to John Field this morning. You know, he was a rescuer.

23:43Got his foot crushed. He's helping out with the rescue workers, the emergency workers who were down there, who now have all kinds of diseases, cancers, etc. He's saying it's stolen valor and that Donald Trump should be ashamed of himself. What do you say? It's just unexplainable narcissism. Here's a guy who's president of the United States twice. You think he wouldn't have the need to still tell stories of false bravery and false heroism. He doesn't have to run for anything. But he can't help himself. He needs to find a place to uplift his own story. The problem is that it's disgusting. I mean, he is denigrating the brave firefighters and rescue workers who gave their lives, as risk their lives that day. He's denigrating the families of the over 3,000 victims. And there isn't an American alive then who doesn't remember exactly where they were.

24:46I mean, I was in St. Louis. I was looking for a judge. And I remember watching both the towers go down in the judges chambers and the dismissal. So for him, this is not some case of exaggerating. Remember, everyone knows exactly what happened. And it's pathetic. It's really pathetic. Congressman, you guys are not working this week because I guess the Republicans voted to give themselves a vacation to go raise money. I'm also to have their own midterm convention. And the American taxpayers are paying for all of this, paying for a vacation. What do you think? I mean, down to usually people get back to work in September after Labor Day. Are you at the convention now? I am. I'm at the counterprogramming to the Dallas convention. And that's why, but when you called, I said I want to try to always love talking to you.

25:49Especially now that you're maybe a presidential candidate. I got to get on a show. I said, you know, this guy may be the president. I need to be a secretary of state or something. You got more game than Gavin. I know you like Gavin, but you got a lot more game than Gavin. No, it's not that I like I think Gavin is a very good retail politician. That doesn't say anything about who I'm going to vote for or where I stand. You know, I'm an independent, but just watching him out there with folks and I think he's got a great social media game and he understands digital. But I appreciate what you said. Sorry, sorry, didn't interrupt you. Go on. No, no, no, I agree with that. But I think the issue of this time though is going to be about the issue. The genocide in Gaza. Are you for taxing the billionaires? I mean, I candidly I've got to fight with Gavin in our own state because I've been fighting for a 5% tax on billionaires, 250 billionaires down in our state to pay for the healthcare of poor kids. And Gavin's on the other side of that. He's saying that no, we shouldn't be taxing the billionaires.

26:49It's a real philosophical dispute. But, you know, the point of it is that Congress is adjourned for two reasons. One, Mike Johnson does not want us taking a vote on the Epstein files. Thomas Massey and I have reintroduced that Epstein files bill. And he doesn't want us to vote on that because he knows that going into the elections, Epstein is one of the biggest vulnerabilities for his members. And he doesn't want us to vote on ending the war in Iran. I mean, I was at a, I talked to Darcy the other day up in the New England. She's going to pay $7,000 for home heating oil because the price of diesel has gone up four times. It used to be 250 bucks. It's now 1200 bucks. He broke down in tears. She said, I don't know how I'm going to afford heating oil. And it's all because of the war in Iran. And Johnson knows this. So he says, okay, I don't want them voting on this. I don't want them talking about this. Just give them a two month holiday.

27:51Hmm. What exactly does counter programming look at a midterm Republican convention? What does this midterm Republican convention look like? And is this a sign of desperation because they feel that they are just going to get obliterated in November? Well, look, Tallahuretko is doing great here first of all. I think he's going to win. And the governor's race is going to be very winnable as well, especially with Abbott. Have been four data centers all over the state and flipped on that. Their Trump is coming in twice. And people here tell me his approval rating is at 42% in Texas. And him coming in is going to hurt the candidates here in Texas. So, you know, I'm just through I was going to be here anyway. I have some meetings here. And the DNC said, well, why don't you just do a few interviews while you're out there and meet with some of the activists. But people here in Texas are energized. I believe we're going to win the Senate seat. I think we could win the governor's race.

28:52It's a toss up. And I think Trump being out here is really hurting the ticket. I want to ask you about AI. There's a story out from a former employee and thropic who is warning that AI could be the death of us. That it could end humankind in time. Those are scary words. They're scary words. And then Evan, who's still at entropic, who's the alignment officer, said, yeah, it's 10% chance that in the next 10 years, this could be a humanity extinction event. And human alignment, it's a fancy word for saying, you know, we want these AI systems to do what human beings want them to do. The scary part here, Don, is that the concern isn't that it'll be misused. Not like that some terrorist will use AI to build a weapon or to build a bio weapon.

29:53The concern is that we'll lose control. That the AI itself will start to rewrite itself and do things that we have no control over. And the problem is that the Congress has been totally asleep. We haven't passed a single legislative bill on it to actually regulate it. We need an AI regulatory agency. We need to have technologists do a check to make sure before something is released on the open internet that it is contained. By that, I mean that there's a kill switch to stop it and that anything requires human permission. And there needs to be an agreement with China about an international framework. You know, the only world leader who has done anything on AI is the Pope. I went to see him a few weeks ago. He's written Magnifica Humanitas, which is really a north star for what humanity should do. But we got a president who's cool.

30:54It's about it. He's basically said, let the tech billionaires do whatever they want. And no global leadership. And we've said, okay, we're putting our fates in the hands of Dario and Sam Alpine. And this young engineer is saying, stop. Can someone please help have regulations? Well, let's hope they get handled on it. Let's hope that you folks are in Congress. I know that you're working hard, but let's hope they follow your lead. Thank you, Congressman Rokana. Be safe. Is it hot as hell in Dallas? I know it can be, but I'm not sure. It is hot, but they need you. I personally love what you're doing being out there. You know, person, I think you should get in the race. That's my own, my own two sets. But, you know, I always appreciate being on with you. You've got a real following out there. And I always appreciate you having me on. Thank you, Congressman B. Safe. We appreciate it. And we thank you for supporting independent journalism. Thank you. So there you heard it.

31:54Look, folks are worried about AI. Not just that it's taking jobs, it could take lives. We have assembled a panel of experts. Folks who are going to tell us what they believe is going to happen. What is the dire warning happening now? And also our Washington DC folks join us. First to work from our sponsors. You know, we check numbers all day. All day long, I'm sure you do. How many steps did I take? What's my heart rate? How much did I sleep? Some of us check our bank accounts more often than we probably should. And I talk about polling numbers a lot. All kinds of things, statistics, everything. But when was the last time you checked your blood pressure? Because here is the problem with that. High blood pressure often doesn't make you feel any different. You can feel perfectly fine and have no idea what your numbers are. And that's why 120 light, this caught my attention. They have a simple 14-day experiment. Check your blood pressure, drink 120 life once a day, keep checking your numbers and see what happens for yourself.

32:57I like that. You don't have to guess. You don't have to anything. You just measure, right? Go to 120life.com. That's 120-LIFE.com and use my code, which is done. D-O-N for 20% off. Try it risk-free for two weeks. And if your blood pressure doesn't come down, you get a full refund. That's 120life.com. And the code is done, women. All these statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor. Always check with your doctor. And thank you sponsors. Thank you for keeping us powered. Let's talk about this since we discussed the AI. Now, I am old enough to remember this from a movie that's beautiful on the screen. But when I saw it years ago, God, hold this movie. It's from the 70s and 60s. It was frightening. Roll it. Open the pod, Bay Doors. Hell. I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

33:58What's the problem? I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do. What are you talking about? This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. Scary. Is that happening now? You heard with Congressman Rokana said about someone who is currently an employee at... What's the name of this thing? I just had it. Anything else? Anthropic. Anthropic. Thank you. Man, too much going on. Of Anthropics, warning about the end of humanity, possibly from AI. And then there's also one who doesn't work there anymore. I believe it quit. So let's bring in now Taylor Rins. He's an independent tech and culture journalist. And also Reed Albergati, Simifor, tech editor, Jolly Gajinger is back with us as well. Our original Washington DC correspondent, and Washington DC correspondent Daniel Grimes joins us. Hello to both of you. Thank you. I gotta ask you, Taylor, you're laughing about, do you remember that 2001 Space Odyssey?

35:02That's immediately what I talked about. Talked about how open the pod door. I can't do that, Dave. Is that where we are right now? Well, I think it's really important to distinguish fiction from reality. And I think so many people's understanding of technology is really only been built through the lens of these fictional kind of depictions. And I think we need to deal a little bit with reality. And I think also look at the ideology shaping these statements. These are not being made by necessarily neutral parties. These are being made with people with a very specific ideological view of effective altruism. And that's a very well-funded view. And so in the AI safety world, so I think, yeah, we just need a little bit of context around this stuff. Well, look, Taylor, I don't know. I mean, back then we thought that that wasn't so realistic. And now we have people, we have, look, how wasn't writing speeches for people?

36:04AI is now. How wasn't writing, you know, plans for people's retirement? AI is now. They weren't writing business plans. AI is now. I mean, AI is probably going to be doing our surgery in the hospitals. So, I mean, I don't know if it's not realistic. We've actually gone past how. Right, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean the risk isn't there. But you have to understand why, why are these effective altruists promoting a very specific narrative of harm? We know that these tech companies do irresponsible things. We know that anthropic and open AI have contracted with the government to do master valence of, you know, sort of Americans' activities speech. So there is not like these companies can't do harm or won't do harm. But we need a lot more specifics, you know, if you think, for instance, the San Propic employee, if you think that your employer is so negligent right now, currently, that they are endangering all of humanity, I think you should give examples of that negligence so that it can be corrected instead of just saying, hey, we're all potentially going to die.

37:08Read what's going to happen, sir. Let me jump, Angela. Then you can jump. Sure. Yeah, okay. And, and hi, Taylor. Oh, it's good. Oh, it's good to chat. We're former colleagues. So, you know, it's good to be reunited. I, I, um, no, I think there's, there's something to it. I don't, I don't doubt that this, this, you know, former anthropic employee is, is really genuine though. I think a lot of people do have genuine concerns that eventually these models that are being built will, will lose control of them, right? And they'll go off, they'll, they'll escape the lab, so to speak, and they'll be able to kind of self replicate and then eventually threaten all of humanity. It is though, I think a hypothetical fear. Like, if you look at what's actually happening inside these labs, the models have not reached the thresholds that I look for, which are like the ability to, to run so efficiently that they could really, literally go anywhere, right? They don't have to be in a data center. I mean, the research that, that these companies are doing, like they had an open AI, had a big math break through the other day.

38:09Millions of dollars in compute just to, to do this, right? And they still, even the stuff we use, you know, at home nowadays, it still has to run in these huge data centers with many, many, you know, $40,000 GPUs. This is not like going out in the world and escaping at this point. And it also can't learn. Like these models, once they're trained, they can't learn anymore. They don't have the ability as a person does to, to continually get better. That may happen, right? But we're not at that phase yet. And I think people compare this to, you know, to, to nuclear weapons, for instance, like building nuclear weapons. I think we're still in the phase here where we're doing physics research that may one day lead to something like a nuclear weapon. We don't exactly know what that would look like. But we're still in that sort of early, you know, physics research phase. And these companies, not this employee, I'm not accusing this employee of doing that. But, you know, the companies like to sort of make it like, we're farther along

39:11than we actually are with this research. They have sort of an economic interest in doing that. I'm also not dismissing these concerns. Yeah, look, I was speaking to Cara Swisher today. And she said, her, you know, Cara covers all things tech. She said, not, she agreed with you, Reid. Not where we are right now. But if this continues to evolve and get better, we will certainly be there. We'll play Cara in just a minute. But, Jolly, what did you learn to jump in? Go ahead, sorry, I just wanted to make sure I got Reid in. No, I was saying, I probably was about to say something very similar to Reid, which is I don't want to downplay this previous employee's concerns. And the current employee that followed up with him and backed him up, I said, he's right here. The guy Evan, who's a current employee, I don't think that these guys are going to come out and expose themselves to the world if they're just, you know, on a hunch. AI has proven to be not far enough alone to be being, to be pushed out as much as it's been pushed out. We've heard about the warning shots that's happened already.

40:11How it's broken out of the sandbox multiple times. How it's backdoor hack. Listen, in a couple of the recent warning shots, the hacks, the backdoor hacks by AI were so complex that we as humans didn't even understand the hack. It had to spend weeks reverse-engineering it to try to understand what the hell it did. It's so far ahead of where we thought it would be at this point. We don't even know how to write the code to write the language to control it. And like Reid said, and you hit the nail on the head, people are pushing this out faster than it should be for nothing more than economic interest. And if you believe, if you are foolish enough to believe that AI, as it is right now, is not utterly dangerous to humanity, you are being wildly reductive and reckless in your argument. Well, but you're talking about a security, sorry to interrupt. You're talking about security problem, which I totally agree with, right? Not destroying all humanity. I think those are two.

41:13No, I didn't say those words. The people who work at Anthropic AI did, right? But what I am saying is, if there is the ability to evolve, if there is the ability to adapt and learn that quick, then not having the way to contain it is a problem. You would agree? But there is a way to... Maybe that's what they're saying. Right? I mean, there are ways to contain it. I think the worry with these former anthropic employees is there will be no way to contain it. And that is not the case today. You can still just like he did with Howeery, eventually how gets unplugged. We can still unplug these things. Right, I think that's what the former employees are saying, Reid. Like do it now and no one's doing it out of economic interest. That's the point we're getting at. Like you're right. It can be contained and it's not being contained because people want to be the first one to control that world. Because if you do that, you can be the most powerful person in the world, seemingly. And let me jump in with my expertise here, Reid. We didn't have internet and ethernet back then or Wi-Fi.

42:19Because Howe can be unplugged, but if Howe was on Wi-Fi, we're all doomed. I'm just saying. It's true. It's hard to imagine the future. You can imagine Howe and yet not imagine the internet. And I think that's a good lesson. I love that science fiction is a warning. I love that we're being warned about this technology. We should think really hard about this stuff. But it is, I think the reality is often different than what the sci-fi predicts. But also these people are critical. I don't know that it is. These people are also part of a cult. You'll know that there's all these people working on open models, all these people working on super-intelligence at other companies. They don't share this effective altruist ideology. And I do think that that plays a huge role in how they shape the world. How they talk about this. This is something that effective altruists have been shouting about since day one. They were saying this 10 years ago.

43:19And maybe they'll be proven right. Maybe it will go off the rails some way. But I think we need to take into account that these people have a very specific, very religious belief in this future sentient being that they're going to conjure up. And that is shaping their worldview. Well, let me just say that I talked to Congressman Suha Supermanum about data centers and his district in Northern Virginia. And he's shared they have more than doubled in the last five years in his district. And so this boom is happening. I mean, I was shocked to see that figure. And I'll just say he talked to me about he's a relatively young member of Congress. And he's like, listen, a lot of my colleagues don't understand AI. And so if you don't understand it, how can you then regulate it? And so I think that's big concern as we're talking about with hitting the pause button. I mean, I don't know that we can expect regulation from here in Washington. If lawmakers don't even understand the issue. I want to say this. This is the data centers. Go ahead. Can I just go ahead? There's actually a great point there, which is like they are building these massive data centers.

44:23And Therapeutic is in this huge race right now with OpenAI to get as much compute as it possibly can to catch up with OpenAI. If Anthropic believed that these models were going to get to a point where they run so efficiently that they can escape into the world and replicate themselves and then take over humanity, there would be no reason to build these data centers. There would be no reason to spend hundreds of billions, maybe trillions of dollars on them. So the data centers I think are evidence of where we are with this technology now in these concerns. I completely disagree with that assessment. You're assuming that there's people that are making these decisions have good morals and good decision-making money. I believe it's greed. I believe it's greed and power. Listen, everybody knows that AI could eventually have positive, we can do positive things AI, yeah, we could. But it's happening too fast. These data centers are a massive problem. And I don't think that they don't push and have data centers means that they don't believe AI can do the things that these former anthropic employees are saying that they can do.

45:23If it becomes so efficient that it can self-replicate and if it is that efficient then they wouldn't need all that it would be an economic argument, right? Is that what you're saying, Ray? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. And I think even if they are greedy, let's assume they're the most greedy people in the world and they're just doing this for money, that would be a very bad financial decision if these models were going to become so efficient as efficient as the human brain, right? Which requires like 20 watts of energy or something to run. That is, these are breakthroughs that may happen one day, but there's no evidence that they're even around the corner. Okay, I was wondering if people that work there are saying this right around the corner. Well, I don't think so. I think they're actually saying that large language models are going to become so powerful and so intelligent that they will be able to escape the lab and evade humanity. Like this line of technology, I think there's other people at there who believe that actually, we need to go down different paths, different roads before we get there.

46:27That's what I'm saying. You guys might remember, I think it was Jeff Bezos recently, somebody said, along the line, I can't directly quote it. Yeah, AI might kill off part of humanity, but in the end, they'll solve problems we couldn't solve. Like the people that are making these decisions see it different than us because they don't see themselves as potential consequences to these dangerous decisions. I think that slowing down and doing this a smarter way is a much better decision. And I think that's what these former employees are saying. I think that's a dangerous decision too, though, because if you slow things down, what does that mean? That means you're going to have to pass legislation that limits what you can do in this country. There's no global government, right? So it's going to happen somewhere else, maybe in China, maybe somewhere else, then we have even less control, less insight into how the technology is being developed. So there are AI arms race. Well, that's what it sounds like. No, there is an AI arms race. I mean, have we not learned any better as humanity that this gets us nowhere fast?

47:28And that this technology is used in negative ways before it's ever used in positive ways, whenever new technology you referenced nuclear weapons earlier. Albert Einstein himself said he regretted his work because he never meant to be harmful. It was supposed to be for good. That's a weapon. This is the tool. I know I understand, I understand, but we're already using AI target packages in the military. Yeah. Right? So there's already groundwork for this being weaponized. And I think that when we talk about slowing it down, jumping on to the fact that China or Russia might get ahead of us, it's just we're talking AI arms race at that point. And I think that that's not what we should be doing. Yeah, I think you're bringing up stuff like real concerns that I think we all agree are concerns and we all agree. Sure, I don't think we don't. Right. And regulations, I think this employee, though, was really talking about something else, which is like, you know, the existential risk to humanity. That is, I think where there's more debate because it's very theoretical. There's a lot of real stuff happening today.

48:29Again, the cybersecurity risk, I think we're not taking that seriously enough. Like I think there's a huge problem when we still have critical infrastructure running on old out-of-date windows software that's going to get hacked easily by this stuff. Maybe already has. So they're real, they're real concerns. If you got, if you guys are walks or nerds who are in the chat, then you are really enjoying today's show because we're getting real, walking in the weeds, but no, actually, I think it's a fascinating conversation because who knows? Like who knows? And, you know, I'm joking about how in 2001, Space Odyssey. But that really is kind of, I think sums it up. Another person who I spoke to about it, and I want you guys to hear it's a little bit long, maybe we'll stop in the middle of the discussion. But this is, I was at the summit, the status summit today with her and Mediasan and Cole Wallace, etc. Here's what Cara had to say. I want to know for now why. Is he going to kill us? Well, that's according to an anthropic engineer, very my rankings, that just left because he doesn't want to kill the human race.

49:32He said there's about a less than 10% chance that AI will kill us by 23. Yeah, right, not in his current form, but as it continues to. Yes, because what's happening is we're in an AI arms race that's happening, and so everybody's developing to compete with each other and then also with China, it's coming at a moment in the Trump administration is doing no regulation or just safety or anything else. And so it's sort of a perfect storm as if, you know, Oppenheimer happened when it was no government. So it's like nuclear war. We didn't manage not, we did create nuclear weapons, and we didn't all die of it yet, right? And it's been 50 years, right? At least. So how do you do that? The same thing with AI when you have an incompetent administration who is actually not just pro AI, but corrupt enough to be taking all the money from these people and then doing no regulation, or cheerleading it without any kind of garden else. What's the word? We're people of the surveys, you know what reminds me of? What? 2001 Space Odyssey, how did it turn it off?

50:32Yes, I've turned it off. Turn it off. I can't do that day. That's exactly right. But more than that, we won't know what it's doing. And so one of the things I'm paying a lot of attention to, I don't think the media has that much, is all these rogue, as they jump like open ass, had many, many instances where the AI goes outside of it and does these rogue attacks on different things. And they're very clever. These AI's, they form their own message boards, they learn to lie because guess what they're learning? Guess what content they're learning from. You and I, all of us, humanity. Do you think humanity lies, creates wars? Is it logical? So it's learning to lie, cheat, and steal, but better. You know what I've learned? Is that been playing around? I don't want to use it for writing, because it's always up. It's great. It's good. If you want to structure things, or the algorithm in the AI can be biased because of people programming. And also what you ask it, everything is the prompt. What is the prompt? But it's such a bad idea. When does it begin to be self-supported and thinking for itself?

51:35Who wants to, Taylor, you're the most animated. What did you think of what Carousin? First of all, the idea that there hasn't been enough media coverage on the rogue agents, that's all people have been talking about. I think Kara, and I love Kara, but like people are talking about that. I think she just summarized everything that we're just talking about. Like I think she brought up, and I think like Jolly makes all these good points that like, it is being used for harm right now. And like what I would say to these AI engineers is like, yes, the existential risk, you think is theoretical, but why don't you also work to mitigate the harm right now? And I totally agree with also what Reid said. And I don't know if Kara realizes this as much either, but we are simply not even remotely close to these doomsday scenarios. And I'm sorry to keep bringing it up, but as somebody that's covered the effective ulcers movement, I do think it's so important to interrogate the ideology that these people are coming at it from. Because other researchers that are also knowledgeable about the state of AI development are not doing these hypervolic statements on Twitter.

52:36And I thought it was interesting that Evan didn't cause, that the current employee didn't call for a pause. And I don't think Jacob did either, which is interesting to me, because you would think that they would be calling for a pause. It seems like to me their language is a luteant to just that, to pause or slow down. But I want to add one thing to this conversation. I think adds a little depth, especially for the American people. And that is the, we brought it up a minute ago, the data centers. These data centers are extremely problematic for the environment, for the neighborhoods they're being put next to, for the water supplies. It's being done in a way that's kind of reckless for the environment and the communities. And so when you have people, because by the way, that is a bipartisan topic right now, whether you're a Republican Democrat, nobody's a fan of that is, I think 85% of Americans pulled negative on data centers. So when you take this already negative effect on everyone from data centers, and then you have these unthropping employees come out and say this,

53:39I think that we have a real big problem. If it's an education problem, then you have an expensive problem on your hand to educate the entire people. But I don't think that the entire population of America just has it wrong. Something is a miss. But the population, it's been so interesting. And I think reader, there's been some coverage of this recently, Jolly, and I'm so interested to hear your thoughts of like, ironically, the anti-data center sentiment is so separate from the X-risk sentiment. And the people that are so focused on the X-risk stuff are so not associated with the anti-data center people, which is what's getting actual traction. Like if you ask a lot of these people, there's all these polls, right? Of like, hey, why don't you want this data center? They're much more likely to be like, I don't want AI to take my job. I think this is being rolled out too fast. I don't want a data center in my backyard. They're not bringing up that like the X-risk on their list of concerns is so low. So in fact, they're the opposite, Jolly. They're the opposite, right? The X-risk people want the data centers to be built here. They don't want to be built in some country where they have no control over it, right?

54:40Which is just such an interesting like, they're flipped. Kind of, you know what I'm saying? Is that because the more immediate concern is the potential job also? You know, is that is because like those are just more immediate concerns with, listen to my electric bill, this guy rocketing, I have the potential for AI to take my job. So there's more top of mind than like, Oh yeah, he's going to kill you. Obviously, that's more far off. The X-risk people want like, and again, it's not all, it is not all the AI developers. It is these effective altress type people. They're whole think they're not anti-AI, so they're not truly aligned with the anti-data center people. They are pro AI. They just believe that they are the only ones that are responsible enough to bring this super intelligence into the world. And that's why we need this extremely oppressive regulatory framework to basically ensure that yeah, everything is built here and everything is overseen basically by anthropic or whatever. And I just think that it cuts in a very weird way politically. I think that goes back to what I said, if any of it goes, it's an education problem. I don't think the average person is really prepared to have the conversation of,

55:45you know, the risk, the X-risk later and all that. I think that the average person is looking at exactly what is this doing in my neighborhood? I don't have fresh water here in Virginia where I live. The price of energy is already going out the roof because of data centers. So yeah, you're right. Those are two different conversations. But I don't think that they're mutually exclusive conversations either. I think that we are feeling rapidly at the effects of AI and that when employees come out and say, this guy said less than 10, or either less than 10 years or within this decade. I forgot how he worded it. But that's quick. That's soon. That's around the corner. And so I get that everybody here has read something about or been doing stories on it and following it for a while. These guys work out. These guys are the engineers doing it. We have to take that seriously. All right, nerds. All right, nerds. Don, I think that was a call for me. Don couldn't get a streamcast to work. And then he's like, I'm gonna tell him that AI. But let's take the E.A. people, Taylor. Like, let's meet them where they are and actually argue the points.

56:47Like, I don't really care if they're part of some ideology. Like, I listen to their arguments and I read the books they've written and I sort of think it through. Like, I don't, you know, I like to separate that from the ideology. But sure, but I do, but I think fit like, I mean, what I'm concerned about and I agree. And by the way, I think we should take existential right, like we should have people within these companies thinking about these things. We should have resources dedicated to thinking about these things undeniably. I think when you look at the amount of money and resources that are put towards existential risk online, as I've reported, you know, Natasha, our former colleague has reported a lot on too. It skews the discussion in interesting ways. And I think what Jolly is talking about, like, when you look at the real on the ground sentiment, it doesn't seem like ex-risk is something they care about. And I wonder if the statements from these employees and Bernie Sanders and all and Rokana and people getting, you know, speaking about it, I wonder if that will change that at all. I think what Jolly is talking about is AI is going to force us.

57:47Sorry, but can I make one this one? I want to hear this please. I want to hear it. I think what you're really talking about is we have all these problems in society, like income inequality, like the cost of, you know, whatever's energy, fresh water. All those issues, AI is going to accelerate our requirement to deal with those issues, which we've been putting off for decades, right? I think that's what's happening. Like, that is separate from the existential risk question, but, you know, we're going to have to get out of here. I agree. I agree that's separate. Yes. I mean, I should re-can I show a question, read, honestly. Earlier you alluded to the fact that Jacob and Evan are, I can we continue this offline? Okay. I really want to read thoughts on this. Okay, fine. I love this. This is great. I'll have to take this to pick Tom Lime. Yeah. It's a complex, conversational topic. So, you know, thank you all. I appreciate it. Good to see you. You think they're crazy. Read us the question. You think they're crazy?

58:47No, I think that's I totally respect their morality. If you think that what you're building is potentially not 10%, but even 0.01% chance is going to destroy all humanity, you should quit. Like, absolutely. Like I... He used to say that about journalism to me, and maybe they're right. All right. Thank you. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. If politicians don't end, if politicians don't end, humanity, then I don't know who will. Okay. I will see you soon. Thank you, Jolly. Thank you, Daniel Taylor and Reed. Appreciate it. So, I got it. Can I get this? Let me tell you something. Do we have... Did you send any of the pictures of the status summit to these guys? No. Yes, I have some. Yeah. Okay, let me just tell you something. So, we're at the status summit today, and just show some of the status summit stuff. And I was on stage with Medea Sign. They were talking about building a media empire after, you know, legacy or corporate media. And it was a very good panel. I really enjoyed it. We talked about, you know, Medea got let go from MSNBC. I got let go from CNN.

59:48And now our companies are doing really well. Hiring more relevance than normal. So, it was great to be there amongst friends. And one thing that Medea said there, which I agree, I think I told that to you. And I appreciate what you guys will say to us. And especially, I don't know what you say to Medea, but Medea said, you will say, thank you when they see us. Right? Thank you for what you're doing. Keep going. Don't stop. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And the love out there among folks is just unbelievable. I went to my local grocery store today. I mean, you'll probably see your name tag on it. And you'll know, I went to my local grocery store today. And I got accosted in a good way by a lady who's there at Francesca. She is such a sweetie. Every time I go there, so there's Francesca. I'm in my local grocery store. I'm buying like the little tray of sushi. She's always in there. And she walks me to the checkout counter. And she's talking about the show. And she says, I'm a lemon head. And I need to figure out. I can't figure out how to join this thing.

1:00:49And I'm showing her on her phone, how to join. And whatever. And meantime, the associate producer here, Cameron is like, oh my gosh. By the way, Cameron's new. Cameron, this happens all the time. And so I thank you guys so much for this community that we're building. If you have any photographs, any lemon heads out there, especially if you are wearing the merch or whatever synitudes. But that is my girl, Francesca. She says, she goes, you got me watching every day at 10 and then at 5. And then she said, and I was working today. And you know, I'm retired down in part time. And you got me working every day. I mean, you got me working today. And I can't, I'm sorry, I'm working today. And I can't see you. So I'm going to go home and I'm going to watch her and start with the 10. And then I'm going to do the 5. She was so sweet. And she said, I'm on a fixed income. But I want to join. I want to join. I said, well, join at the low tier. And she goes, no, but I want to be at the high tier. But I don't know if I can afford that. Anyways, I understand whatever you can join or not. But just hit the free subscribe button. And thank you for helping us to build this community. Love, love, love you guys. Love you, Francesca and all the lemon heads and lemon nation. OK?

1:01:49So now you are informed. OK? If you want to know anything about the download, and show go to downloadment.com, downloadment.com, there it is right there. First thing you're going to do is click there and you're going to go get some tickets to see me and to see Dio Hugley starting on September 11th. Speaking of September 11th, this weekend, coming, this Friday, for a lot of Dio on Friday, Orlando on Saturday. We're going to inform you. We're going to make you think. You may cry, but you're definitely going to laugh. And you'll be entertained and you'll leave. And a much better mood than you came. OK? So come check us out. An extraordinary show. Dio and Dio, anything goes, get tickets at a city near you. Back out of that and go back to downloadment.com and make sure you go check out our YouTube page, where you can become a member or a free subscriber. The memberships are extremely reasonable. What is it? The first one is like $3.99, $4.99. Come on now, guys. That's cheap. Now there is a special. I think you, I think in order to get this special, I don't know if you can, I don't think you can do it on the app.

1:02:50When I was looking on, I was looking on Francesca's phone today and it was a whole different thing. But I think you have to go into the YouTube.com. I think it's YouTube.com slash.com, or downloadment.com. But if you go in there, just search down the limit and down the limit show and go, then you can get three, you get one month free. And then 30 days, I should say. And then seven days before your trial ends, they'll notify you and see what you want to do. OK? So do that. And then check out our lucky lemon seven newsletter. Check, become a subscriber on our sub stack as well. Sign up for that. Seven things you need to know before you start your day. It's usually out in the seven o'clock hour, except I forgot to hit, hit send this morning. I think it went out really, really late this morning. So my apologies, I'm sorry. The informant not being inundated until I see you back here tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. Eastern time, here on the down limit, here on the down limit channel. Until then, turn the TV off. Thanks for watching, everybody. I appreciate you. Make sure you like, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you don't miss anything. We're live weekdays at 10 a.m. and 5 p.m. Eastern with new content at 2 p.m. Eastern, sometimes at 8 p.m.

1:03:50So follow the down limit show wherever you are. YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch, subs, that, Spotify, IHardRadio, Apple Podcast. We are everywhere. And we're there every day. And if you want a little more, join the limit community. Exclusive posts behind the scenes, live chats, just hit join or check the channel pages. All right, I'll see you next time.