THROWBACK THURSDAY! JACK THE RIPPER

0:00Welcome to Throwback Thursday. So these are some of the oldies, but goodies, the classics, and they are some of the episodes that are probably in the back of the catalog that you haven't managed to listen to yet. So, just a warning, some of my thoughts, feelings, opinions may have changed since the recordings of these episodes. It doesn't make them any less interesting. So, as an evolving human being, I may say something in these episodes that I don't necessarily agree with today.

1:02But these episodes are the classics, and I just thought I would do a little something fun for us. So welcome and enjoy Throwback Thursday. Hello everyone! You know what it is? You are listening to the Cosmic Peach Podcast, and I have returning champ and your absolute favorites.

2:31I'm a bad ass researcher. I'm a bad ass researcher. So this is really going to be a fight to the actual truth, because we did not compare notes this whole time. I just said go research Jack the Ripper, and then we'll compare notes on the episode. Yep, yep, and you guys know my approach. I'm Mr. Skeptic, and I'm not going to say that there's not holes in every single story, because if there was no holes, then this would be a case closed. But I think I got a pretty damn good explanation, and I think you guys are going to appreciate it. You're going to learn some stuff about these killings and Jack the Ripper today. Before we dive into our research, how solid are you that you've you've pegged the guy? 90%. I don't want to give away too much.

3:33Okay, because it's so when I go over why I picked what I picked right now a lot of you guys are sitting on offense, right? And on that fence, you're like, I love Cosmic P.G. I believe anything she has to say I'm going to go over here. Well guess what? There's plenty of room over here on my side of the Cleveland swell fence. You can spread your legs out. We can we can claim a beer together. You're all about to be on team bride. I'm not over everybody. My listeners are pretty good about giving me their own theories as well. Okay, good. So maybe it'll be a hybrid mix, but maybe we've pegged the same guy. That is true. We actually have no idea. And if we take the same guy, then then it's obviously not to check the rip right?

4:33Yes, case closed. Case closed. Yep. Now before we jump into the biscuits and gravy, I want to go over something that you and I both have to agree on and can't be refuted, which is some of the victims. How they were found who is Jack the Ripper and just for the listeners, you probably already know, but Jack the Ripper was an unidentified serial killer active in and around London in the impoverished white chapel district. And this all took place in England in the autumn of 1888 in both criminal files and contemporary journalistic accounts. The killer was called the white chapel murderer or the leather apron. Did you find this? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he was Jack the Ripper in those letters.

5:39The deer boss. The deer boss. Yeah, there was a letter called deer boss. Sometimes you'll hear it called the deer boss letter. And then it was signed Jack the Ripper. There was another one that was sent with what was believed to be a human kid me. That one was signed from hell. And that's where you get that name of the movie that Johnny Depp was in from hell. But we can talk about the letters later because I personally don't believe any of them were written from Jack the Ripper. So that might be something that we can. Or the real Jack the Ripper. But at the time, I guess they were referring to them as like white chapel murders or leather apron murders, which is the letter apron thing came from prostitutes at the time. They they thought that what they knew there was a guy going by the name of leather apron. And he was roughing up prostitutes for asking for their money.

6:43And that was going on for like a whole year. So that he became the nickname leather apron became a major suspect for the killings and he was actually arrested. I don't know if you know this. They found the real leather apron. But the newspapers had been putting out hey, we got to find this leather apron guy. The guy that went by leather apron. I'd have to look up this real name. He ends up getting arrested but had extremely strong alibi us for where he was at. And because I didn't see who the real leather apron was, this is not going to be my guy. Okay. But if you could Brian, did you research who the victims were? Oh, not only did I research it. I have. I have no son. Okay. Let me ask you this question first because if there's any ripperologist out there, they may be thinking this already. And this is up for debate.

7:44But there was a group of files. They were called the white chapel murder files for that year. Okay. And the reason why some people attribute 11 deaths to Jack the Ripper is there was 11 murders that year under the white chapel files. But most people believe that there were five what they call canonical victims, right? The canonical five. And I personally think that there might have been a couple more. I don't know why when we get there. But the main focus is on five particular victims. So I have the canonical five. Yeah, they have the canonical five. I think one of the women that was killed before. It was outside of white chapel. I think that was a jack the river. I may have found something similar to that.

8:45Okay. Okay. So the canonical five ripper victims are Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Edo's and Mary Jane Kelly. Do you have the details on each death? I do. I even have details on these women kind of look like they're upbringing in their lives, what they've done. So let's kind of go in order. I'll do Mary Ann Nichols. And then you can tell me about her life. Because I don't. Okay. And actually, even before we do that, I want to set a scene real quick. Yeah. Because sometimes it's hard for people to take themselves and put themselves in a place. Because when you watch these documentaries and things like that, I always like to call bullshit. And the bullshit that you need to call is these streets were gas lamp lit.

9:48And those gas lamps went out at 11 o'clock. Now unless somebody has a candle lit or is running around with a torch, people can't see shit. In the dark. In the dark. You're going by moonlight. But the problem with that area, and if you look at the newspapers of that time, even on these take place, kind of in the summer, it was cold and it was raining. And they were most of these murders were minimum past midnight. Most of them took place 3, 34, 30 a.m. So I want to talk about that extreme overcrowdedness of that city. There's people everywhere at every hour of the day. There was a million people that lived in that area. Okay. Poverty, disease, extreme famine. Most people were not eating. A huge influx of Jewish immigrants had just come in.

10:49And that helps to paint a picture of maybe some of the reason why the Jews were getting blamed. And there was anger towards Jews. Newspapers were running crazy with these stories. They knew back then that if it bleeds, it leads. And they soaked up every dollar they could out of Jack the river. Let's just let me just put it right there. And basically these vigilante slash vigilance groups started picking up all over the place. When you hear about some of these letters that are sent, they're not even sent to the police. They're sent to vigilance groups. The from hell letters sent to a vigilance group by to a guy named George Lucas. That's why I didn't even turn it into the police for two days. So you've got all this craziness going on. So fresh food is hard to come by. Most women, if they became estranged from their husbands because everybody's drinking alcohol. It's raining every day. You're living this miserable existence with basically no food.

11:51Most of the homes had broken windows and it's cold. Nine people living to a one room house that's not even heated. Sitting there in the living room. They're all losing their minds. They don't have much money. So the woman needed to get extra money that say she'd laundry clothes during the day. She probably had a drinking problem and was out drinking at night. Gin was the drink of choice because it was very cheap and everybody would go to these puffs. And they drink their entire night away. But you have disgusting facilities where nobody's using contraception. So unorthodox abortions are going on all over the place. People are dying of infections or poison. STDs are running rampage. Doctors are extremely expensive. So most of them women are not using them. People are sleeping on the floor, broken windows, fleeing insect covered environments, damp and extremely cold. And then even the working conditions were horrible.

12:53But if we go into even house crazy, the police stations are at this time. Police stations, they're not used to dealing with serial killers. They don't even know what serial killers are. And what's crazy and a lot of people don't know. Even though there was a lot of crime at this time, murders were rare. If you go to 1887, there were, I think, a total of 12 murders for the entire year. So when you start hearing about five, six murders in a span of a few months, this swooped the hell out of these people. And the way the streets were built, like you had these police constables that would walk all over the place. But some of these areas that this stuff was going on in police were too scared to go down these alleyways. They didn't want to go down these. Now some of the areas that Jack the river were in were very heavily patrolled. And you'll find that out when we go over the cases. But these police, the structure and detectives, they don't really have a clue what they're doing. They're not used to this sort of thing.

13:56It was hard to find people because of the narrow alleyways and all these different places that people could escape from. But when they did these cases, evidence always ends up missing, or they didn't know how to handle evidence for crime scenes properly. They didn't know how to like tape them off, how to extract evidence. They're not getting fingerprints. They're not doing DNA. They're not doing blood samples. And the officers just aren't equipped to deal with things like this. They lose evidence when it's put away in custody. They just screw everything up. So that's painting a picture too for where I'm going to go later with my suspect. Your suspect. I wanted to paint the picture of the way the White Chapel area was. It was extremely poor, insect-ridden, prostitution, disease everywhere, overcrowded, nine people to a room. Most people are drinking because gin is cheap.

14:57It's one of the few things that people can use to escape this disgusting, depravity world that they're living in. And that's it. That's all I'm going with. See, Brian, you cinched my eyebrows with that already. I'm feeling the fire. I'm feeling the fire. Yeah. And I always, of course, you know on my show, I have to go a cult with some of my information. Yes. So if people have followed my podcast at all, I always point out how with a cultism, there's weird ties to the number eight. So for example, people who are born in August, things that happen on an eight day, things that take place. In August or anything to do with the number eight, and the first thing that stuck out to me is that this occurred autumn.

16:00So we could maybe assume that it started in August. And not only did it start in August, but it's in the year 1888. So I do find it significant that we have some numbers sticking out right off the top. Now, I'm going to go through the list of victims. And we'll see if we can pull out any other occult significance from their deaths. And you can tell us a little bit about each victims background. Now, I first have Mary Ann Nichols. Throat was severed by two deep cuts, one of which completely severed all the tissue down to the vertebrae. Her vagina had been stabbed twice. And the lower part of her abdomen was partially ripped open by a deep jagged wound causing her bowels to protrude.

17:04Several other incisions inflicted to both sides of her abdomen had also been caused by the same knife. And each of these wounds had been inflicted in a downward thrusting manner. Okay. She was essentially gutted like a fish. And then almost decapitated. That's overkill. What are your thoughts on how she was murdered? So this is a tough. If you're asking me like, well, I'll give you this opinion. There's conflicting opinions by the professionals at the time who saw the body. Some professionals will go, like this person had surgical knowledge and then the next person's like, no, there are a freaking hat that just cut up bodies.

18:06I personally go with their a hat that cut up bodies. This is a person who hates women. Obviously or a particular woman. Well, I don't go with the medical. I don't go with the doctor theory. I do in a way, but I don't in a way because this. There's a reason they call him Jack the Ripper. It wasn't because he was very delicately and very perfectly cutting specific. Like, oh, they always cut perfectly across the jugular or something you'd have to have medical training to know where these are to eat. No, it was literally like stab stab slice rip. In the vagina, cut in the crotch out, cut in the bowels out. Like this doesn't sound like somebody who has any type of like plan to the murder.

19:09Like I'm going to perfectly dissect this person. It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds sloppy almost. Like I'm going to cut this person open and see what I can get. I'll take something out of it. And as we go over these victims, what a lot of you will see is that each body is in a varying state. But I think when this individual had time with the victim, he would get even more and more gruesome. So there's, I want to go over finding the body because this is very important for of Mariann Nichols. Yeah. Okay. So for Mariann Nichols, let me just read a little story about this. And this is going to tie into some things I talk about later. Okay.

20:09So it's 3 30 a.m. and there's this guy. His name's Charles Cross. He's his house to go to work because he has he has a 40 minute walk to work every day. This Charles Cross. And he's walking these streets every day. He gets by and he's heading down a particular road and as he approaches this particular boarding school, he notices the start bundle, flying in a gateway opposite the side of the street. So the first cross he wants to see what this bundle is and it looks like something's been discarded there. So he looks down. He's like, oh my gosh, this is a buy. He sees it's in the form of a woman and he can't tell if she's dead or drunk and he stopped there in his tracks. He's unsure of what to do next. And he hears these footsteps approaching. And he turns, he sees this guy Robert Paul walking towards him and then they come over and there's a woman lying on the pavement. The two, two men they step over the road and they stoop down over the prostitute.

21:12They see her lying there on her back. This is really crazy guys when you start hearing this shit. I'm about to say so they grab her hand. All right, and they're like, oh, she's extremely cold. I'm sitting there like, dude, that don't mean shit. First of all, let me tell you something. I can be talking to a woman right in her face and she can be as alive as anything in her life. If I touch her hand, she feels like she just stepped out from off like a graze. So I don't know what these we grab her hand to see if she's alive as a stupid as God damn favorite. So then the other guy, I have the cold hands. You are not alone. Every woman out there right now, their hands are ice cubes. So he grabs the hand to figure out if she's, you know, more. And what's strange about that to me and then he like, here's a breath. Now you think about this. He had heard a breath come from the chest. You guys, if he was just there and heard this breath, they must have just missed the kill.

22:19Her throat was completely slashed to the point. And I want a lot of people to know this. When you hear about these victims, the people in the area when they talk to witnesses, did people never heard anything? And there's people all over the place. There was police constables walking all over this area. Somebody would have screamed. They would have at least been in shouting range or heard something any kind of tussle. Nobody ever hears anything. And it's believed that he strangled the victims first to the point where they pass out. And then he'd slit their throat. But think about the amount of blood that they should have been in. When they kneeled over. These guys, they leave. Both of them leave the scene. They say, oh, we better go find a police constable. They don't have any blood on them. They don't have it. Nothing. They find this body and they say we're going to work. If we see a police constable on the way, we'll stop and get him. Now, police constable has some champions to be walking by a little bit later.

23:22His name's police constable Neil. And he arrives on the scene and discovers the body. He's in a pool of blood and he's covered in blood all over. Are you saying inconsistencies? Oh, wait till I go into my stuff later. Police constable Neil was in a big old pool of blood. You would have to grind with the flow. Slick the throat open and gutted somebody like a fish. You're going to be there's going to be blood. But when I went to her house with a police officer, she was standing on the floor. I was like, what are you doing? I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you, what are you doing with this body? I'm going to tell you. Now remember, she's lying on her back. So they didn't want to turn her over. Anything. Her skirt was pulled up. Which was something that was very common with the victims of the river. The skirt being pulled up and her lying there. Like in a specific spot where her,

24:23We're not picking her up. Then they decide they're gonna go walking off. So, please, Constable, he notices, you know, he flashes his lantern down, he sees her throat's cut, he runs off, they go get a doctor who pronounces her dead. He pronounces life extinct at 4 a.m. When he touches her leg, it's still warm. He sang the woman died 30 minutes ago. Guess what? Guess it was just standing by the body 30 minutes ago. Guys, start putting these pieces together for me. We can go on to the next victim. I'll keep going on what I think happens as we move forward. All right, come on. You're trying to sabotage me. Ha, ha, ha. I know you're asking you trying to sabotage me. How do we know that they, somebody heard a breath that obviously wasn't true? Cause her throat was slashed.

25:23Yeah, it's, I heard a breath and her chest moved. No, that's what they said. That's what they said. That's what they said. Of course, let's get, and when I get into this later, they gave Charles Cross gave the wrong name, his wrong address to the police. He gave all wrong information, which they later found out was false. But we can get into that later. I'm not even going to entertain you right now. Next victim. Annie Chapman. Okay. The throat was severed again by two deep cuts. Her abdomen had been cut entirely open with a section of the flesh from her stomach being placed upon her left shoulder and another section of skin and flesh, plus her small intestines being removed and placed above her right shoulder.

26:26Chapman's autopsy also revealed that her uterus and sections of her bladder and the vagina had been removed. Your thoughts on Annie Chapman? Well, again, we're talking about another prostitute. We're talking about somebody who lived a very nomadic existence. Didn't know where she was going to get hurt, you know, where she's going to be sleeping week to week. And this is a very common thing. And I want people to understand something about these prostitutes. Why it's such a good idea if you're a serial killer to go after them? Because guess who knows the darkest corners of every alley that nobody's ever going to see? Take me. They lead you to the best place to kill them. They know all the best places to get killed. Because they're trying to be out of the sight of police constables and everybody else.

27:29Okay, but do you think that this is happening on the street? Because I had a tiny little moment of skepticism that he would be able to do all this removing of organs right there on the street. Yeah, well, a lot of times you just cut those, you know, you cut open and just throw the intestines either by the feet or over the shoulder and just slash and things up. You know, when you're, they believe, I think his knife was like eight to 12 inches long, sharp, deep. Just, but also, you know, it's like, you have to think too, people kept going, well, how did he cover up all the blood? Why is it blood spurting out? And I want you guys to think about this. If he killed just the same way, if he affixiated them first, if he strangles them first, that heart ain't pumping no more.

28:31So when you go after the throat, you're not getting those giant pumps of blood that are shooting the blood out as far. And the fact that if he removed his jacket, it being super cold in London and Rania at that time, when he goes to leave, he puts his jacket back on. He's covering up anything that he may have gotten on himself. And it's darkest fuck. Let's face it. It's darkest fuck. It's darkest fuck. And I also have something I'll add later to why I think he could get away with some of that. But I mean, I have a little timeline of what happened leading up to her death and what people saw her actual death. Let me see. What time did she die? I don't have the time of death, but I will on that note mention I do find a cult significance that a lot of these murders happened around 3 a.m. the witching hour.

29:34Okay. I think anybody can agree with that. That's pretty significant. And I have a reason why those happen that don't have the cult significance. Well, we'll just have to argue with each other then. Yes, we will. What else do you have on any jamming? Any channel. So a guy named John Davis is the one who found her mutilated body. And it was at 29th Annbury Street, right? So let's go up to what's leading up to that. 5 p.m. same day September. Well, she's found on September 8th 6 a.m. Okay. So the sun had just come up with her body's actually found. But the day before 5 p.m., Amelia Palmer meets this woman on Dorset Street. Annie tells her she's too ill to do anything. So she returns a short time later and Annie was still there,

30:34told her that she must do something to get some money or she's not going to have a place to stay. So now she's like, I got to go out and prostitute myself. So 11 30. Annie turns up 5 sees her on Dorset Street. And asks if she can sit in the kitchen and she says that's fine. At 135, she went to the office of the deputy. Timothy Donovan and she explains that she had no money to pay for her bed that night. And he told her that if she can't pay, she can't stay. So she leaves. She vows to return shortly with money, urging him just keep the bed open for me. I'll be back. So we know at 135, somebody's seen her alive. 135 a.m. This is the last person that probably seen her alive. It's 5 30 a.m. Miss Elizabeth Long's walking along Annbury Street. When she passes Annie Chetman talking to a man directly outside number 29 Annbury Street, she hears the man say, will you and Annie replied, yes, 6 a.m. She's found dead.

31:35So you think it's this guy? Well, nobody knows who that guy is. All that they hear is, but you also got to remember too. The crazy thing about this time is that this story was so big. People were seeking attention back then. The same way people seek attention today. And you'll notice that if you actually start reading into a lot of witness testimonies, not only do they start conflicting each other, but the same witness will start saying completely different things. Then they get put in the newspaper, then they change their story, then they change their story again. It's so common. But they just trying to get their 15 minutes. Yeah, it's like people write letters for no reason. I mean, they got hundreds of letters from people claiming to be Jack the Ripper. And even to this day, and I'll get into it later when we hear about some of the theories,

32:39you got diaries popping up claiming that somebody's Jack the Ripper, you got somebody writing a book in 1940 claiming that somebody's Jack the Ripper, you got people and they're doing that for no to writing and attention today. So it adds, you know, you're just adding more chaos and confusion into something that was already chaos. But you had to be crying about about like the zodiac killer. This happened with the zodiac killer. There were letters supposedly written by the person themselves. I do believe it was the actual murderer writing in letters as zodiac. Yeah. But in this case, I'm not sure. Not all, it's definitely not all 600 of them. No. The thing that really bothered me about most of those letters, even the one where they send a kidney is we didn't have DNA testing back then.

33:43How did they even know that was that person's kidney? A lot of the DNA testing that you hear about today, like there is one where this woman wrote a book off of a, they found a shot that they believe had Jack the Ripper DNA on it, which was debatable at first. And then the DNA was debatable, right? They were like, oh, no, we found all this DNA and we traced it back and it's this person. And then like, when experts actually started breaking it down, people are like, this thing so goddamn contaminated over the last 150 years. Give me a break. Get it out of my fucking face. Exactly. Like it's garbage. It's garbanzo beans. You just went up for a second helping a garbanzo beans. Get the fuck out of here. You know, it's, you just can't go off of this stuff. And they wrote a book on it and what are they really doing? They're profiting. Yes, it's just another money maker. Yeah. And I get it. I mean, it's a very interesting mystery.

34:45People are attracted to this. They still do Jack the Ripper tours down in London right now. You go to where it rings themselves. Yes, they do. And only six sons of bitches would do it. When are we leaving? I'll go with all you cognitive beach motherfuckers. I'll go with it. Just tell me when we go catch the plane. Weed's the Ripper tour. I'm bringing my flask. No big band. Where's the Ripper door? What time does that start? Change the guard by ass. Is this where Mary Nichols was called? Got him. OK, let's go on to our next victim. So actually, I have two in one. I have Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Edo's were both killed in the early morning hours of Sunday.

35:46Within 45 minutes of each other. Yes, on September 1888, again with the 888. In the case of Stride, the death was caused by a single clear cut in surgeon measuring six inches across her neck, which had severed her left carotid artery and her trachea before terminating beneath her right jaw. The absence of any further mutilations to her body has led to uncertainty as to whether Stride's murder was committed by the Ripper. But now in the case of Edo's, her throat was severed from ear to ear and her abdomen ripped open by a long, deep and jagged wound before her intestines had been placed again over her right shoulder with a section of intestine being completely detached and placed between her body and left arm.

36:49The left kidney and the major part of Edo's uterus had been removed. And her face had been disfigured with her nose severed, her cheek slashed, and cuts measuring a quarter of an inch and a half an inch through both of her eyelids. A triangular incision pointed towards Edo's eye. And she had also had carvings on her cheeks, which I saw this in another documentary. It was like a V-shape. Yes, they were under the eyes. Yes. The V-shape under the eyes, yeah. What do you think of Edo's and Stride? OK. So the first victim, her throat getting cut that deep, I do think it was Jack the Ripper. OK. OK, but I think he was interrupted.

37:50Yes. Me too. And I think he choke off. There's a guy in his name, Louis Dim Sholtz. And he drove a pony cart. And I think is that pony cart was pulling up. He could hear it. And it spooked him. And he's like, I'm out of here. Walks 45 minutes. Now, what's interesting about that other victim, the one that really got Edo's, she's, as that throat's getting slit, she's leaving prison. She's leaving jail. What? She was just leaving jail. That earlier that day, she was so drunk, she was acting like a fire truck in the town square, making fun of people. OK. So they lock her up. Could she slumped over and she was so drunk? They put Edo's in the drunk tank. Yeah. She gets put in there, because she was acting a fool. She slumped over, fell over, like basically passed out in public after acting like this fire truck,

38:51everybody's a laughing at her. She gets out. The last word she says, she looks over to a cop, or to a police constable and says, have a good night, you old cock. That was her last words. Be careful what you say out there, kids. Because they say your face is going to freeze that way. Just be careful what your last words are. I'm going to break it. Bye, you old cock. I'm going to die. So she's looking at this police guy, and he's just like, OK, bitch. All right, here we go again. Go act like a fire truck somewhere. So she leaves. That's the last time anybody ever hears anything from her, which is, you know, later on that day, obviously, we know what happens, and she's hacked to pieces. But yeah, she did prostitution work and all that stuff as well.

39:53And she was just unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So nobody saw this one. No witnesses, nothing to this. Edo's. Let me double check. If I see anything that I wrote down, she was seen with a man, three Jewish men, or three Jewish men saw her with a man. Three Jewish men saw her with a man. OK. And they were like, I guess, oh, they were kind of, oh, this is what happened. So, oh, that's interesting. So they see her with a man, and they're like really going to town, like making out. And one of the guys says, I don't like going home by myself when I see these sorts of characters about. And I guess there's people all over. So there was always somebody seeing something.

40:53Let me see if there's something particularly interesting about. Let me see. There's just a police constable found the body at 144. OK. OK. So then I guess we can move on to Mary Jane Kelly, our second Mary. This one, ladies and gentlemen, if you're weak of heart, just go ahead and pause and go about five minutes ahead now. So because you don't want to get this. Yes, it is Mary Jane Kelly, who was discovered lying on the bed in the single room where she lived at 13 Miller's Court. Her face had been hacked beyond all recognition. Her throat was severed down to the spine. And the abdomen almost completely emptied of its organs. Her uterus, kidneys, and one breast had been placed beneath her head.

42:00And the other organs from her body were placed beside her foot. And then sections of her abdomen and thighs placed upon a bedside table. The heart was missing from the crime scene. This is the most brutal of all of them. There was belief that when that was done, one of the doctors claimed he must have spent three hours with her. Had to have been her own. Yeah. And when they came to find the body, I'd have to look up the guy's name from the body. She had owed, she had not been paying, similar to a lot of the other women that we hear about. She had been having trouble paying her rent. OK. She had that one room. And the guy who owned the room sent one of his men over to collect from her in the morning.

43:02And he's knocking on the door. He's knocking on the door. And nobody's answering, obviously. Now, like I talked about before, the condition of these rooms, there was a rag stuck in where one of the window pains should have been. It was a broken window pain. So he pushed the rag out to see if she was in there. And he saw the body in that state. And he said the eyes were still in there in the head, staring at him. He could see the fucking terror in her eyes, he says. It freaked him the fuck out. Now, here's what's crazy about things at that time, guys. There's a killing thing. What happened about this? I think I saw the mom's like a rapper. The eyes were still in the head. And yeah, like she just got killed. That is legit terrifying, though. Yeah.

44:02And what's crazy about this, though, at the time, there was a belief. I can't remember the name that they gave it. But there was a belief because photography was still pretty young. You guys, there's an actual picture of this woman. OK. There's photographs of some of these women that they took to try to get identities. But they went in and took a picture of her. And you can see the state of the body. Yeah. It's pretty great. Yeah. But they would take pictures of the eyes of clothes because there was a belief. Do you want to know why? The belief was your last image was burned into the retina of the eyes. So they were trying to take pictures of the eye to get the identity of the killer, thinking she saw the killer with her last vision. So that was something they did at that time. And they would take pictures of these eyes and then try to figure out who Jack the

45:03Ripper was and get an identity based off the picture. Now obviously it didn't work, but there were grass minutes draws at that point. That's medieval. Well, I mean, it was, I mean, the times were kind of medieval. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what I would break it down. What was going on. I mean, so what I did mention is, I can't remember which one of the killings it was. But there was a clean leather apron left next to one of the bodies. And what's funny about that is that sparked a huge outrage against the Jewish community. There was also a little piece of apron that wasn't leather that was found with blood on it. In a doorway and above it was something written about Jews. Jews. Yeah. But Jews was spelled wrong. Well, that's what some people said, but the reality is that was, I can't remember that actually is a correct spelling for.

46:13A specific. I saw that too. I saw that too because I went looking for it. Yeah. Well, do you have any additional information you want to lay on the line before I ask you about my first suspect? Well, I want to go over suspects that I know are Garbanzo beans. You consider suspects are Garbanzo beans then. Do you want to make go over some Garbanzo beans? I have a couple in my suspect list and we can just toss those out. Yeah, well, give me one moment. Joe and I will bring them up. I have a whole suspects list that I thought was fun because there's a lot of suspects. And I'll go over why I think. They're Garbanzo beans are they're not Garbanzo beans. So. The first one we taught we already tapped into why leather apron. I don't think leather apron was it because he was a rat. He was arrested. It wasn't a big part of the deal.

47:17There was a guy named Montague John drew it and he was somebody who whose body was found shortly after what they think was the last ripper, the canonical last ripper. And the family was like no, he was a sexual deviant. He had these horrible he had these horrible thoughts. He did these horrible things. And it's crazy right after this dude's dead. No more ripper. But what's but when you really start to break it down, you find out that the family really didn't think it that way. It was just kind of reported that way. You found out that the guy hit he was a teacher. He had just recently lost his job. Not sure what he was going to do and probably just threw himself in the river at that time. I also think. I do it side. Yeah, I also think some of these suspects became suspects because they literally wanted to just be done and over with this.

48:19They were willing to say it was anybody at one point and just almost exaggerate. Yeah, yeah, to make it fit. There was this guy his name's Neil Cream. All right. He's on Neil Cream. He said, he's about to be executed for something. I'm a murderer. And the executioner said, this is just one here say word, right? This guy is now an infamy because of the jack the ripper case. Neil Cream is about to be executed. And then the executioner says, when we were dropping the rope and hanging this guy, I think he said, I'm jack the and then he died. Now this motherfucker's out of list of suspects. That's all it takes. Guess what, everybody? I'm jack the ripper. Write a book about me. Get me on the CNN. Got him. Look, Neil coming. So it takes everybody.

49:21Just clean some bullshit. We got Garbanzo beads coming out of our ass. Jack the snap. I'm jack the. Get out of here. It's so stupid. And I can't even believe people take that seriously. Bring out. OK. What about Joe the ripper? Is it Joe the ripper? No, Plumber Joe the ripper is not on my list. Joe the ripper, there was an author in 1939 named William Stewart who proposed a woman named Mary Percy, who was actually executed for killing her lover's wife and the baby. And she did kill the wife by slitting her throat here to ear.

50:23It wasn't super deep. And then killed the baby by I think like strangulation or something. And then he proposed that she was jack the ripper. And what was interesting about this? And I can't remember if it was the Mary Nichols case or something, but what are the cases? The reason why they thought this is, after the woman was supposed to have been dead for three hours, witnesses were claiming they had still seen her up and about and taught me. I don't know about that. They said, oh, this woman took on and put the clothes of the woman on and started walking around. Of course, I don't know about it. It's the stoopest damn favorite. That is stupid because there's no woman who can slash throats like that. Oh boy. You're going to get some letters now. I you're going to get some Joe the ripper letters in the mail now. What? I have an alternative theory too.

51:25That's going to blow your mind, but I don't think I won't even I won't even say what my theory is. Go on to the next suspect. Okay. Well, some people think that that that Louis demon shouts the only person who they think he may have been it, but I personally don't we talked about him before earlier. He came extremely close to maybe catching jack the ripper because he was like right there in the area. He was part of the international work in men's educational club. He had spent, I don't know if we how much detail we want to get into this guy, but I personally don't think he had anything to do with it. He gave a full account of the events leading up to the death of Elizabeth stride and it was published in the East London observer. We could read that if we wanted to, but I just don't think you know, there's nothing that

52:25really ties this guy to any other crimes. You just somebody who just happened to be unlucky enough to come across a body. Yeah. You know what though? I'll be honest with you. When it comes to stuff like this, I would put him above the last two that we just talked about. I was. I felt the same. And at a crime scene. Yes. I always in white chapel at that time, Jesus Christ. Yeah. I felt the same. I felt the same. So I'm not really going with him. No. There's nothing else that really ties him to anything. There was a guy named Frederick Deeming, which I can't remember what he, oh, he was arrested later for murdering his wife in 1892. I'll tell you what I'm, what I'm picking up from these suspects is anybody who murdered anybody ever as a jack the river suspect.

53:26Sometimes that's what happened. Sometimes that's what happened because people would try to write something about it. I mean, there were, there's theories that like a prince, a royal prince had done something. The royal family, his name was, I think his name was Frederick too. And it was a big cover up and all this up, but he's not anywhere near this thing. And I really wanted him to be jack the river because I do a lot of episodes about the royal family and their shady business that they get up to. But I was not able to pin it on this prince. Well, there's actually theories that it was eight off Hitler. Okay, let's just skip right over that because and now. Well, if you can't blame eight off Hitler for everything that ever happened in the entire universe, you better just skip. That is so lazy. Of course it's lazy.

54:27Where's the place insane? But who might have said, you know, that what happened is insane. There was suspects at the time we can go over some of the suspects. This Aaron Kaminsky, let me see, according to 18 and three million, Thomas Kupich, me of the Jackson River was Kaminsky. So one of the one of the senior officers that was in charge of the case thought this Aaron Kaminsky was probably Jack the river. I didn't find that. Okay. And he's a high ranking officer in the Jack the River investigation. And he considered him one of the strongest suspects for Jack the river. But instead of going into all the details, let's hear a case against it. So Anderson and Swanson are the two highest rankings of the officer with the direct responsibility for the river. And they were both in a position to know evidence against the suspects yet unless they are referring to a different Kaminsky.

55:27There is more information about him that has yet come to light. There is little evidence to link Aaron Kaminsky to Jack the river voters in any way shape we're for. Hey, it's closed. Yeah, they say he was hit some Frinnick delusional paranoid incoherent characteristics. But there's numerous arguments against him being Jack the river apparently Kaminsky didn't as Swanson claim die shortly after being committed. So they didn't even know information about him. They were getting information about him. They were like, Oh, yeah, he died. You don't have to be committed. No, he did. He died in 1919. He was committed to an asylum in 1894. So even these people that are pinning stuff on him, they don't know anything about him. Then that bothers me. You just talk to shit. Yeah, just shit talkers. So can you go with Aaron Kaminsky. There was that I can't remember which one they wrote. There was a guy that they wrote a so inspector.

56:30Aberlin's favorite suspect was a guy named George Chapman. And he moved to America in 1891 where he established himself as a barber. Now what's interesting about this guy is that he was convicted of killing winter. In this way. And he went to the United States. So he moved to the United States in 1891. And the reason why they suspect him is obviously, hey, if Jack the Ripper kept living, why didn't he keep killing women? So he moved to America in 1891 and kills every one of his wives. Every one, he killed three wives and a robber for somebody said, Hey, something's going on here. Why is he? Why is this man's every one of this man's wives in an update? The problem I have with it is he killed them all by poison. Yeah, thank you. I don't know if he didn't do this. I was just about to drop the hammer on you. They were never slice and dice.

57:32And everybody said he wasn't even capable of anything like that. Correct. That is also what I found. Okay. So do you want me to talk about Thomas Cuttlush? I want to talk about one of the suspects I actually put a lot of effort looking into that I think the guy who talked about your suspect first. My suspect. My second. I have three suspects and I narrowed my list down off of these three suspects. Okay. This is going to be fine. Yes. The first one that I paid any close attention to came from a documentary I watched that I did some research and digging into after I watched the documentary. Some of you may be familiar. It is the one, the only James Maverick.

58:34James Maverick is the one that the, the, the diaries after. Yeah. I watched a documentary on, I'm not going, we're going to fight. We go fight. We go fight. We go fight. I don't want. So what, what, what case do you like about James Maverick? What are you like? Okay. Let me line it up for the listeners who have no idea what I'm talking about. Yep. In 1992, this random ass dude named Michael Barrett, who was just a nobody really, Joe Schmoe, claimed a journal, a diary had been given to him by a friend at a pub. And this friend's name was Tony Devero. Tony Devero gives this unknown piece of writing to Michael Barrett.

59:36It's a diary. And in the diary, the author makes the claim that he had seen his wife whom he calls the bitch or the whore in the pages of the diary with an unnamed lover in the white chapel, district of Liverpool, and the subsequent rage that he experienced following this sighting sent him on a murderous rampage in the white chapel district of London and led to the mutilation of five prostitutes. And at the end of the journal, quote, it says, I give my name that all know me. So history do tell what love can do to a gentleman born, yours truly jack the river and quote, you want me to say something about this?

1:00:41I watched the entire documentary and it was packed with experts. Yes, this is true. So this is a forgery and they would go back and forth. The writing's been tested. The right mediums been tested. The age of the book has been tested. They match up some of the stories with the actual crime scenes. Now what was found is that a lot of the diary was contradictory to the actual crime scene. That's what I have a big problem with. I also have a very big problem with the thing that I think bothers me in my bones and you can tell me what do you think about this because this is just my feelings and it could mean nothing. But when he makes that gold claim, I'm the one and the only jack the river. You know what I think?

1:01:42That motherfucker would have been pissed off about somebody coming up with a name for him. Like the person who really did it and he would have been like, I'm not jack the river. That's the stupidest name. Not stupid but he would have been like, I go by this. I called myself this. I felt this way. I know jack the river. I'm not this. This is who I am. I'm known as jack the killings are known as jack the river but I'm James Maybrook or something. He'd have this thing like, you don't really label me. You don't name me. But the fact that you want to adopt that name, you want to take on the name jack the river. Like these people have egos that do this shit. Yeah. And the argument they make in the documentary I watched is a few things. But the first thing that they make mention of is that James Maybrook was dosing himself in small portions with arsenic poisoning which led him to be schizophrenic, paranoid,

1:02:47deluded. And he was, his wife was arrested for his murder. Yeah. He was legit as I go. But that doesn't mean he was jack the river. And honestly, if it's not a forgery, James Maybrook and an arsenic induced deluded state could have written this journal. The way that the journal came about is suspicious. This guy in a pub gave me jack the river's diary and told me to do something with it. 100 and five years after the original cry. See? Yeah. Like, you know, it's all fucked up. And actually, I don't know if you got this, but there was a watch associated with that too. There was a watch associated with it. And Michael Barrett was scratched into the watch. It says I am jack. Yeah. And it that was a lot of stuff. Would do some stupid ass shit like that. That could have been added at any time.

1:03:48And that also could be a forgery just to make this whole diary thing seem legit. But Michael Barrett, the guy who supposedly came into possession of the diary, confessed that he forged it at a later time. Okay. And then he retracted his confession. Oh, come on, come on, come on. Well, and you know, here's the biggest thing for me on that. And obviously, this is only one expert's claim because there was this guy and he put together a team of 10 people. I think one thing that I want to tell the audience before we go into this. And this is one of the problems with anything when you do something scientifically. As you really can't come into it with a bias to begin with, right? But what you notice in a lot of these cases is they people have their minds made up before they're even examining the evidence. The people that are anti the book pretty much are looking for anything they can say this

1:04:51book ain't real. Nobody goes into it with like this blank slate like we'll see if it's real or if it's not real. I don't know if it is or isn't. So the ink matches up for time and the paper ran for time and the journal matches up for the time. But the problem is hand writing, there wasn't a single handwriting expert they could find to say that it matched and they actually could find a will that James Maybrick wrote with his own hand and some documents he signed and handwriting it for sort of like this is not the same person. Exactly. And after Michael Barrett confessed that it was a forgery and then retracted his confession, all of a sudden the story of this devaro giving him the diary out of pub that all went out the window. He said actually it was his wife's and his wife's family had been in possession of the diary since the second world war.

1:05:52Yeah. Automatically I'm thinking when you change your story, this is three times now that the story has changed. You're lying, you're hiding stuff and the handwriting doesn't match James Maybrick and it's 1992. You want to be Mr. Popular, you want to have somebody say you're this that and the other thing. Like again, it's 100 years later and people are still using the ship for attention. Come look at me. Yeah. The thing that's most contradictory in the diary and I'll just read it off for you is that the murder of Mary Kelly in the diary contradicts how she was really found. For example, in the diary, the author glows over how he placed parts of her body all over the room and goes into sickening detail of how he had cut off her tits and kissed them

1:06:57for a while and then set them down on the bedside table where Mary Kelly's body was discovered. It was horrific, but the mutilated parts were confined to the bed and in the immediate vicinity and had most certainly not been thrown about the room and her breasts were not placed on the bedside table as it stated in the diary, but were found beneath her body. Yeah. I'm in agreement with you. If you were the one who did the mutilating, why would you put mistakes into your own diary? And that's just it. That's what I'm saying. Like you would give details and I don't know if it's really it. I can't remember if they wanted to call it a diary or what they wanted to call it a confession or whatever this book is, but it just all this stuff about that just doesn't

1:08:00bring it just sits with me the wrong way. It just I don't know. It's like what we're talking about. It doesn't, nothing matches up. You know, you'd have intimate details of the crime scene. You'd have intimate details of what led up to the crime. Don't just tell me about the motherfucking crime. Tell me about how you've learned that bitch in there. Tell me about what you said to her. Tell me about how you what kind of makeouts you did or who saw you or what what you were feeling at a time or some little rodent that ran by or somebody that little channel. Shit that nobody printed. Shit that nobody knew about. Why is it in there? What their last words were. Yeah. None of that in the diary. Or the anger towards the individual because they might have still felt it. And it's my personal feeling that this person was angry at a different woman and wanted to take it out on all women.

1:09:02But we tried to make that argument with James Maybrick that his wife wasn't popping the poo so he started murdering prostitutes. That was their main argument is like he referred to his wife as a bitch in a whore. And so he started killing prostitutes because his wife was this bitch in whore. But the wife for real documented said she stopped getting freaky with James Maybrick because he was doing our snake. And he was like 30 years older than her. I am and did that shit was so fucked up back then. So it didn't have anything to do with. I rolled off James Maybrick and the diary. It's rolled off for me. Same. If you at home think it's James Maybrick you better make a damn good case. Damn good case. You better come you better come with the fire.

1:10:03How many suspects did you whittle it down to just I haven't whittle down the one. What were you interested in anyone else? I was interested in James Maybrick until I started watching documentaries on him. Started reading more into it. What was that because the diary pops up you've got this watch. It's interesting. Hey, I'm a sucker for a great story. But I'm also a sucker for the truth. I do want to figure out the truth. You guys have heard all my stories. I love good stories. The Outlaw of Past is a good story. I love the great stories on Beyond Belief. Jack the Ripper is a great story. I'm a sucker for a great story. Especially a great mystery story. And the reason why this has stood the test of time is because it's a mystery. If we all knew who he was we wouldn't know who he was. They would have figured it out back then. He would have been a footnote. He would have been one of the first serial killers.

1:11:05But it would have been a footnote. I've heard everything from, well, H.A. Holmes escaped the United States and it wasn't really him that died and he ended up over in the United States or over in... H.A. Holmes was gas and bitches. Okay? He wasn't fucking chopping him up like Jack the Ripper. It nothing makes sense. Like, just people make up shit. It's wonderful fiction. It's great. Right. But it's fiction. Yes. It's obvious fiction. H.A. Holmes was executed. Yeah. He didn't escape. He was even killed. Who is your main prime suspect? Do you want me to tell you? Because it might be the same guy that I pegged. It's Charles Cross. It's not the question. Charles Cross is actual real name is Charles Lechmeier.

1:12:07And yes, he was the person who stood above that body. But when George gave his testimony, see when Charles Cross gave his testimony, he said, I'm across the street and I heard George coming and we went over to the body together. George goes, no, he was hovering over the body when I fucking saw him. Charles Cross gives the wrong name. He gives the wrong address. Every single killing was done around his walk to work at the time he would be walking to work. What does Charles Cross do for a living? Charles Cross delivers fucking meat with a huge bloody apron on going completely undetected as he would have a giant fucking bloody apron as he goes around the streets where nobody would think twice about Charles Cross or Charles Lechmeier. But wait a second, Brian, but he's walking to work at 3.34 a.m. every day to get to his job. You're absolutely right on his 40 minute walk.

1:13:08But what about the two killings that were done that weren't near? Oh, I'm sorry. It was done right outside his mother's house and his former lover's house. Excuse me. You're sold on Charles Cross. I'm fucking sold on you. And his real name is Charles Lechmeier. It's not Charles Cross. Where do we get cross from? See, so Charles Cross. That's not the cult to me, by the way, cross. So the man, okay, let me just go over the story of Charles Cross. It's about to be a fight to the death of your brain because I do not have Charles Cross. There's a wonderful, if you guys want to make up your own minds before you're obviously convinced by my argument. I'm here. The Smithsonian channel did a wonderful documentary on Charles Cross or Charles Lechmeier being

1:14:13the prime suspect. And they kind of sold me on it. And they'll actually go over his actual route to work. The two routes he has to work. It's uncanny how close every death comes. It's uncanny how he was right there before that body bled out. What's crazy is George leans over the body. That body had bled out like it was when the police constable was there, which tells me legit. Charles Cross is standing over this body legitimately after he just fucking killed it. And gets away with it saying don't touch the body. We don't need to move this body. We need to get to work. And walks away. And that information he gives to police is wrong. So he's actually named as a suspect, but it's not until 2012 newspapers carried articles about it when he came across the body of Mary Nichols. And the more I learned about him and like what he did for a living, delivering the meat,

1:15:20how he could have a blood all over him. And nobody thinks fucking anything of it. His roots were when he had to walk to work was the times of the murders. All those murders take place at the same exact fucking times when this dude's walking to work along the roots he has to walk to work except for two of them. But the two of them are done on his day off that are right next to his mother's house and right next to his fucking ex-wife's house. It's fucking uncanny to me. It's uncanny. I don't like this Smithsonian because they be trying to cover shit up. So if it came from this Smithsonian, I rule it out. I'm going with that. Oh man. This is okay. So this is your guy. You're going with cross. Well here's the thing that I like about cross as the suspect.

1:16:20And you guys, we do have to break this down. Are there holes in the Charles Cross story, Charles Lechmeer story? Did the guy lie to police? He absolutely lied to police. The killings do happen everywhere this dude walks to work and by people he loves houses. Okay. Totally fucking crazy. Could it be coincidence if it happens once, twice, three times, four times five times? Oh, it's like what's it anymore? My fucking kill me. But let's go. Let's get serious with it. So he's in the area. He's at crime scenes or right next to crime scenes. And he's caught at a crime scene. He's the first motherfucker at a crime scene. And he's seen right over the body literally the second it fucking dies. So either he's making out with Jack the river or he is Jack the river. Or it's a bad coincidence. Well he misjacked the river by 30 seconds. But Debra claims that he hurt, you know, and here's the craziest part too.

1:17:22When he talked about the footsteps and stuff, when Charles Cross talked about his walk to work that day, the George guy should have been walking right next to him. George says, I don't see. I never saw anybody. I never saw one motherfucker do it. Because I didn't see Charles Cross till I got into the alleyway. I don't like it. Well, I'm going with witness testimony and the motherfucker at the crime scene when it happens. I don't like Cross for my suspect. But I'm willing to consider it if you're willing to consider my suspect. Okay, well, let me see if I even know who your suspect is. Eight off him. How open are you to having your mind changed? How open are you? I am always open to my mind being changed.

1:18:23But if you're about to go down the path of this being a cult killing, I'm going to argue with you. I'm going to tell you that right now. And that'll be fine. But let's discuss my suspects. Okay. Are you familiar with someone named Alistair Crowley? Oh, my God. No, no. I am familiar with who Alistair Crowley is. He started this church of Satan. He started the church of Satan. Let me get my info out because the listeners are going to want to hear this. And then we can you can just fight me or whatever. We can fight and I'm going to say this now, y'all. Get over on my side of the fence right now. Well, you've got while there's still room. Okay. Fill it up fast.

1:19:23You better get on over here. Child's cross three. Everyone who listens to my podcast would probably know who Alistair Crowley is. And he claimed that the true identity of Jack the Ripper was Helena Blavotsky in an unpublished article titled Jack the Ripper. He wrote that Blavotsky committed the murders as a necessary component of a magical ritual which she was conducting, which would give her great powers. So she was essentially trying to blood in to the powers. And now who is Alistair Crowley? Sashikoltist, ceremonial magician, poet painter, novelist, mountaineer, pedophile, into human sacrifice, practice, black magic, freakazoid, and fun fact. Six mysterious London deaths famously are attributed to the curse of Tutankhaman, but were actually murders by the notorious Satanist, Alistair Crowley.

1:20:28And he names Helena Petrova Blavotsky as our Jack the Ripper. Have you heard of this story? Okay. First off, I haven't. Sounds like he's just pulling stuff right out of his ass to get attention like everybody else to me. I will say this. There wasn't a guy at the time during in London. So this is interesting. You want to talk about people trying to get attention. Are you going to talk about Stephen? I'm talking about Robert Deonston Stevenson. Stevenson. Yeah, he's part of my theory. He had extreme interest in the occult. So before any, he's already got his mind made up. This is the problem with this shit. This dude is going into it with his confirmation bias set, right?

1:21:31So he's been in London at the time of the Ripper killing. Stevenson writes a series of articles for the Paul Morgazette about how the murders are claimed to be part of a Satanic ritual because the mother fuckers obsessed with that idea. And he wants it to be a Satanic ritual. Now he shows up everywhere. He's so obsessed with these crimes. He began to speak to the private detectives in Scotland in the yard about his theories. Hey, this is Black magic. Hey, this is a Satanic. Hey, but guess what? He passed from these people so much that they started to keep him as a suspect for the Ripper. Yeah, he would, but he was a consultant to them. He was involved with consulting on each of the murders. But a lot of murderers do that. They get involved in the cases. And that's what made them say that go this guy's it's a failed attempt to be part of the investigation. And he's actually a killer. And that's true though.

1:22:32I think that's true though. I think that he probably could have been trying to get over body and the fuck I'm going to went before it was bleeding. Now listen. I don't know. Brian, I gave you your time in the sun. Now it's time to give me my. All right. You got it. You got it. Let me go through my whole theory and then I'll get your thoughts at the end. Okay. Okay. You go. Now, I was your Crowley wrote an article about who was Jack the Ripper, not a guess, but who it really wasn't. This is a direct quote. He said quote, it's hardly one's first or even one's hundredth guess that the Victorian worthy in the case of Jack the Ripper was no less than a person named Helena Petrova Bovowski. And later in the article, he goes on to say that the motives of the murders were to obtain

1:23:37a cult powers. And in one of the grim wars of the Middle Ages, an account was given of a process by which a sorcerer could attain quote the supreme black magical power, and quote by following out a course of action identical with that of Jack the Ripper. He went on to say that the murders are necessary to obtain a certain type of magical power in that the power is very real. And this is another quote quote, the very least of the crimes necessary for him or her to commit to attain the power sought is actual murder by which the human victim is essential to the sacrifice. Yet, the price is awful, horrible, unutterable, the power obtained is real.

1:24:44Now who is Helena Blavotsky? Do you know anything about her? I've never heard even heard her name. Okay. So Blavotsky was a highly influential occultist from the 19th century. Originally from Russia, she inherited vast wealth and from a young age she was interested in spiritualism and traveled extensively while studying. She spent time in India as well as Germany before living the final part of her life in London, England, until her death in 1891. This means that she was living in London at the time of the Jack the Ripper murders and would have been 50 years old at the time which comes into play with how I think she was Jack the Ripper. In 1875, she co-founded the Theosophical Society which innovated an elective form of philosophical

1:25:51spirituality. She wrote several books and stated that she possessed psychic abilities. So how did Alistair Crowley know Jack the Ripper was Helena Blavotsky? Alistair Crowley was 16 years old when she passed away and it was not until years later that he was initiated into the various secret societies that she was a part of. So both of them were highly prominent occultists in a golden era of occult studies. They both possessed the means to travel throughout the world in pursuit of a greater magical knowledge. So if Crowley really did discover the truth of Blavotsky and the murders that occurred in London, it probably would have been through both of their involvement in the same magical orders. Both Blavotsky and Crowley traveled to many of the same places and why did Crowley write

1:26:56this article naming her as Jack the Ripper? He probably learned of her involvement in the murders from the occult circles which they both were a part of and she was doing these rituals to blood into the cult for higher magical power. And why did he do this? Why did he want these motives to be known? Could it be a deception or could it be that he was an admirer and could it be that someone else who was an admirer was helping Helena Petrova Blavotsky commit these murders and who would be an admirer of her that would help her carry these out? Robert Denosden Stevenson.

1:27:58She told him what to do and he committed the murders. He was involved in the cases. He wrote articles. He was a consultant on the cases stating that they were a cult and satanic because he was obsessed with that because he was obsessed with that and he would also have been an admirer of Helena Petrova Blavotsky and she was essentially telling him what to do. He was carrying out the crimes. She was 50 years old at the time so she wasn't doing it herself but she was the mind behind the ripper and they used these murders as part of a sacrifice which here's the other catch.

1:28:59The man that we know as Robert Denosden Stevenson was born Robert Denosden Stevenson but changed his name. He changed his name to Roslyn Denosden Stevenson and Roslyn also represents something very occult. Not only did he change his name to something occult, he was a consultant on the case. We're linking Helena Petrova Blavotsky to these murders. She's the mind behind them and he just carried them out. But now get this. After he changed his name, he covered up all traces of his past life. And evidence has been found that Robert Denosden actually did away with his wife before he

1:30:04moved to this area of London and his wife is actually the Reinham torso. What is that? Google it. Every black Dalia-esque type of murder and that was his wife. Then he changes his name and moves to Ripper Town and then the murders start happening. Then he's a consultant on the case. Then he has all this inside information about why they're taking place. All right. All right. To me, first of all, we're going down rabbit holes that I'm unfamiliar with. But it sounds to me like Alistair Crowley was playing some kind of string game of dungeons and dragons and he wanted to level up and do this, do that, roll the 20-sided dice to see if he's going to defeat the dragon.

1:31:05But I'm going to tell you, it doesn't add up to me. It doesn't add up. There's got to be a paper trail. There's got to be something. There's got to be some communication. There's going to be some evidence. This sounds very, it's a wonderful story. It's very well written. His wife was a hacked up torso, cut in half, sliced and diced and then he moved his name and moved to Ripper Town and is involved in the full bridge. That dude might have been fucked up. That dude might have been fucked up. I don't know if he's. Okay, the Ripper Town murder. Tell me what you know about it. What do you know about it? Should I look this up right now? What was the state of this? Was it similar to a death of Ripper Kelly? It was extremely similar. It was the same type of slice and dice which I would in studying conspiracy theories in the occult and these magical rituals that these people do.

1:32:05He probably used his own wife as part of a sacrifice to blood in and then he changed his name, pretended like he wasn't that person who was married to her, moved to Ripper Town, all these similar, very fucking similar. I mean, there's a lot of speculation. That's the first thing that bothers me. We've got speculation though that he wanted to be a part of the investigation though. No, that's not special. I know he did. I know he did. But he would have also come in with his mind made up. It was occult. Let me ask you this question since we as conspiracy theorists love to ask questions to answer questions. Why don't we start with this question? Why is he shining a giant light on it being an occult killing if he's part of the occult that you're trying to cover up? There's a rule in occult secret societies that you have to tell people what you're doing.

1:33:08And if nobody does anything to stop you, then you keep doing it. Is that final answer on Jeopardy? I don't know. I've not heard that. They have to tell you what they're doing. He literally gave them an opportunity to look into it. He told them what he was doing was involved in the case and they did nothing with his information. They did a lot like what you're doing and they played it off as like, hocus, focused stuff. And somebody actually went through and lined up the bodies. And it forms like a weird symbol, the location where the bodies were found, the hour that they were probably killed, his involvement in the investigation. He was telling them what he was doing.

1:34:08But nobody ever saw him there. Where was his real whereabouts at the times of the killings? He was. And I think that's the most important thing we need to, as far as alibis and you know that they started to suspect him a little bit because he was so adamant about it being a cult killings. He was so adamant about what was going on. Yes, I have where he was. Hang on just a second. And it lined up. Also Robert Denostin had medical training, which we've kind of decided it might not be important, but he was, he was a doctor or something like that. And he, oh Denostin also was the first one who said there would be no more ripper murders. And then there wasn't. And let's see. That is a strange prediction. And I'm going to say this, regardless of what happens.

1:35:09The one thing that bothers me, even with my suspect and I haven't brought it up yet is. So Charles Cross lives to be to the year 1921. And he actually ends up making a halfway decent living for himself by the end. And he's able to pay for a photograph of himself. And if you look up Charles Cross or Charles Latchmeer, you can see his photograph on the internet. And I would ask you guys to do that because you're probably looking at Brian's Jack the ripper. You're seeing the real Jack the ripper 1921. And I would invite you to look up a picture of Helena Petrov, Blavotsky and Robert Denostin. There's also pictures of these motherfuckers and you see in the face. You stare evil in the face. Now listen, listen, listen. Okay. This is going to drive.

1:36:11I got to get my whole evidence across before you can come to any conclusions. Now, many people besides just the police suspected Stevenson citing that the disappearance of his wife years earlier in the exact same way that the ripper bodies were found was suspect that he was the killer. And Stevenson shared a common friend with Alistair Crowley. So he had a friend who was also friends with Alistair Crowley who published the article telling everyone who Jack the ripper was and her name was Baroness Vitrovia primers. And he shared information with this Baroness who also shared information with Alistair Crowley. So that's another reason why he probably knew what was going on. And the Baroness herself stated that Stevenson was responsible for the Jack the ripper murders.

1:37:21And if you look even further into the Jack the ripper murders, the astrology behind the Jack the ripper murders is like completely astounding. In every case of a murder, either Saturn or Mercury were precisely on the eastern horizon at the moment of the murder. I'm talking about within minutes of the murder. And Mercury is the god of magic and Saturn is the god obviously worshiped by witches during the Sabbath and is all type of the underworld and black magic and all this connected with Saturn. So we have it lining up with the astrology. He was staying at a hospital during the murders at he said he was at London hospital. 31st August 1888, 150 yards from the first murder.

1:38:25Yes. I'm looking into it right now. He had back pain supposedly and he had medical training. And this guy named Iver Edwards also published a book on the theory that Denostin was Jack the ripper. In his opinion, the reason he killed was for the sake of an elaborate black magic ritual. And the author conducted detailed analysis of the murder sites and the distances between them. And he literally walked to them. And he went from the east end and paced them out. And this detailed analysis led to the conclusion that the killings were plotted to form a ritual symbol. And this could be seen if the distances were measured and the murder sites joined correctly on a map. And this also led to this whole theory that the reason Denostin was giving all of this

1:39:34information and wanting to be a part of the investigation and a consultant. Not only did he have friends who were friends with Alistair Crowley and then he's obsessed with the occult he's trying to blood into the cult. He said when the ripper murders would stop and then they stopped, he has a record of a dead wife murdered just like the ripper victims. And I believe he was acting as a vehicle for Helena Petrovna Blavotsky in a black magic ritual. The Charles Cross know how to line the murder sites up to form an occult symbol on the exact astrological alignments. Oh, come on. This is what I'm going to go with here. First of all, when people do these astrological symbols, I want you guys to keep this in mind first.

1:40:35It wasn't Jack the Ripper leading the victims to where he wanted to kill them. It was the victims taking Jack the Ripper to where they would be killed. Remember, he wanted to be out of sight and who knows better than to get you out of sight where you can be fucked without disturbance than a prostitute who wants to be seen, heard, whatever. And I already know about the close calls because Charles Cross was Jack the Ripper and basically caught and then got out of it. But wait a second. How do we know that Helena wasn't leading them like, hey, if you're a woman, you're comfortable with another woman. So maybe she said, hey, sis, I want to help you out. Let me take you to my house. I'm going to give you some clothes, some food, some money.

1:41:35I just want to help you. And then Stevenson was waiting for the because you got a million people living in that city. And nobody, none of the witnesses claim they saw these women with another woman leading them anywhere. That's my first thing on that. They were drunk. So what? Not everybody was drunk when they were witnesses. And I'll say this, witnesses did see these people. And we did talk about how dark it was and how hard it is to probably figure stuff out. And we do have to keep that in mind. How do you explain the 1888 in the witching hour? The witching hours because that's when Charles Cross had to go walk the work. So how was he able to do this? How was he able to do this whole murder and then get to work on time? Because it didn't take them long. It probably at least took him a couple hours to do what he did.

1:42:38He had to first lure them and then strangle them and then dissect them. In some cases, he had more time than others, obviously. But they all took place around the same time. Because that's the time he was getting ready to go to work. Those were all on his walking paths to work. Still able to make it to work on time though. I have a motherfucker that was not only staying in the area but was involved in the case. He was involved in the case and he was in the area for one of the kills. But what was his age? I don't know his age. And that's important. Because when we talk about what the... So let's see, he was born in 1841.

1:43:40Okay, died in 1916. So he would be 48 years old. Most witnesses picked this guy at 30 to 40 years old. He looked good from all of those rituals he was doing. And I will say that the witnesses were all over the map. I heard everything from 23 years old. But I never heard 60 years old. You always heard and you heard different clothing and different hats and different things. And it made it hard. And sometimes the witnesses would straight up just change who they were with. Or it was a soldier or was this person that I saw this woman with or that woman with? It is crazy. There's a lot going on at this time.

1:44:42I want people to understand this too. This rattled the community to a point where not only did you have the vigilance, I call them vigilante groups, set up. But reporters were into this to the point where they were dressing like women and going out into the streets, hoping that Jack the Ripper would try to pick them up. Police were doing the exact same thing. And at some times you had police questioning another, hey, are you with us? Are you one of us? And they'd be like, no, I'm a reporter and they're like, I'm taking you in. It's too suspect for me. And they arrest them. People were on edge about this. Everybody was looking out for Jack the Ripper. So I do think that witness testimonies, 40 and younger is what you're getting. Most of the prostitutes are around the 40 some year at your age.

1:45:46I don't know if I'm going with that. I don't think it's bad. I mean, it's interesting that it has more credibility than some. He is in the area for one of the killings that we know of. And he wants to be involved in the case. But then there's a lot of speculation is who's calling the shots. Like, I want to see Dr. you think that there'd be something written down or somebody would say something to somebody. Yeah, there was. There was this this Baroness. This Baroness said that he was Jack the Ripper. And she was also friends with the person who wrote the article. She's just claiming it. I'm talking about details like go kill this man. Go kill this. OK, you don't think it's suspicious at all that his first wife turned up like one of the Ripper victims before he turned up in Ripper Town. I mean, that's fucked up. I'm taking. OK, so you go in Charles Cross, who was a butcher, who was a dumbass,

1:46:55Normie over someone who had experienced murder. I don't ask Normie. You want me to read you the Charles Cross case? I want you to look at Stevenson's butchered wife. Well, let me. I want you to look at the Rainham torso. OK, I will look that up in just a second. All right, so this Charles Lechmeer is born 1849. That would put him at about 30 some years old. You're splitting hairs, Brian. I'm going off witness testimony. I'm going off a man found over the dead body. He's found over the dead body before the blood's coming out of it. He's right there with his all going down. Bad luck.

1:47:56No, my ass bad luck. And he didn't see no fucking a luster Crowley running from the scene. Did he? There's Stevenson. So working in tandem with Helena Blavotsky. He's found over the body of the first canonical victim. And Stevenson puts close to the first canonical victim. He's found over the body. You can't get his grab in her hands. Don't move it. Don't move it. OK, we'll put the dress down. I'm going to work. See you later. Bye. All right. And Stevenson had already hacked up his wife in the same way and then left town and then changed his name and then started a new life. And then the river murder started happening. And then he said the river murders would stop. And then they stopped. Come on, Brian.

1:48:57In 2021, a woman produced a book in which Lechmeyer's link not only to the White Chaffer's. I didn't notice. He's also linked to a series of killings known as the fame's torso murders. My God. A fucking kept killing people in that disguise. No. My mother fucker. He's also linked to a torso murder, but you just ain't looking it up. That's because I'm learning new shit right now. Why? You're biased because you want to prove your point. That's why I'm biased. But I want the people to know the truth about about Lechmeyer to look into him. And I want people to look into. They can't. Robert Roslin. Come on, people. I've already told you about what the Roslin means. It's just fucked up to me that neither of these guys, they're over the body. They say no blood's there.

1:49:57Then after the councilible finds them, blood's all over the neck, all over the ground everywhere. He lies about everything that he's tied to these new killings. The fame's torso murders. What is this shit? Oh, and it went from 1887 to 1889. Excuse me. This dude was crazy. I don't like him. That's my suspect. Any dismembered the bodies? Hello. That's the Ripper victims were dismembered. Their guts were pulled out. Charles Cross. Charles Lechmeyer. Did you look up the rainham torso, motherfucker? All right, I'll look up rainham. What is it? R-A-I-N-H-A-M. Rainham torso.

1:51:00Rainham? All on word, rainham? Yes, rainham torso. Because the organs that were removed from the Ripper victims would suggest that the killer was using these body parts in magical ceremonies. And we know these motherfuckas love to do that shit. Uduruses. Viginas. Tits. Oh, the rainham. The fame's torso murders are the rainham murders. So that was Stevenson's wife. That they think Charles Cross killed. No. Bull. Bull. We got a new tie here, people. My research says that undoubtedly Stevenson was responsible for his wife's murder. But what is more such? What do you think this guy would be so interested in these murders? I'm going to tell you something that makes a little bit more sense, everybody.

1:52:02Not that he was responsible for them. But his wife was brutally killed probably by this piece of shit Charles Cross. Stevenson. Charles Letchmeer. And Stevenson's wife's killed this way. So now he's when these other murders start turning up, he's got a major interest in it. He wants this case to be solved. He probably thinks it has a tie into his wife's murder. Maybe we can even find my wife's murder if we solve this case. Now you tell me what makes more sense, everybody. Not to call this a lester probably, spooking up the spirits. This woman coming around us to town and saying do this, do that, the other thing. We got a personal interest in the case. Cross is a scapegoat.

1:53:03Cross is a scapegoat because he blood into the cult. He's doing magical ritual wolves. He changed his name. Why would he change his name after the torso murders? If he didn't want to start clean with a new name, new city, new surroundings, and he was the only person who said these murders are going to stop and then they stopped. I'll tell you why he would change his name. Because sometimes the more ties we have to a past that feels traumatic, if we sever those ties and we feel like it's like the Phoenix being reborn. He changes his name because it's easier to deal with life. But why then? If he loved his wife and was so upset by her murder, yeah, that he would become a cult member in the cult he suspects killed his wife,

1:54:08becomes obsessed and loves it so much and changes his name to something that's related to the cult. I don't know that if he was actually a member of that cult, I don't know. That is just speculation, I think. I think he definitely was. I'm going to say something. The lesser it's a problem. He said so. Come on. No, no, Brian, let me put it to you like this. You're married. You love your wife unconditionally. Best marriage you ever had. She gets murdered in some kind of like weird, sacrificial murder and it's just her, like black dollia. You find your wife in a black dollia state. And a lot of people are saying this is kind of a cultish to me. This, this looks like a sacrificial weird thing and you're like, you know what? I want to name myself after this cult who killed my wife and I want to become obsessed with it

1:55:09and write books about it and articles about it and I want to practice this cult's rituals. And I want to ascend into this cult. Why would you do that? Why would you name yourself? Like, let's say the cult's name was like dollia cult. And then after they find your wife like this, you're like, I'm not Brian anymore. My name is dollia Jason. Why would you do that? Well, we do know that this guy has an obsession with the cult. I know that's a fact. And why would he be so like admiring of it if he knew that's what happened to his dead wife? Well, I don't know if he knew what happened to his dead wife. I don't know. I mean, you would happen because right after they found her murdered up dissected torso, he changes his name and moves to Ripper Town, White Chapel area and then those murders start

1:56:13happening. He's within 150 yards of the first murder. He wants to be involved in the case. He's telling them this is what's going on in the case. They don't look into it whatsoever. And then he's like, oh, by the way, they'll stop on June 10th and then there was never another murder after June 10th. This is just an example. Like, how does he know so much? I didn't know about his quote like that and that's a fucking weird quote to make. How do you make a quote that the murders are going to stop? I don't know. If that's the truth and he really said that, that's weird. But in my research, his name never even comes up other than in very deep theory research. And that's the only information that I shared earlier about him is the only information I ever heard about. Do you think that's by design though because they're using Cross as a scapegoat?

1:57:15I don't think they're using Cross. Most people don't. You know, that was a theory I went with because it made the most sense to me. Okay, but Cross is Cross up there as a suspect. I'm sure he is on a lot of people's book and a lot of people's book. This is real names Letchmeer and he was in the area and some people think he was also those torso murders. So is that a strange coincidence that he's both? And we'll just think that he's both. Yeah, I mean, but we can leave the listeners up to an interpretation on who they think their suspect is based on Cross or Stevenson. Stevenson slash Blavatsky. But I do want to ask you about something. Yeah, this might be we can use pseudonyms to protect the identities, but you knew someone very closely who could have also been a suspect.

1:58:21And I was wondering if you might share with the class on what you know about that person. I think that's a question. Somebody for this case or a related case in the United States. Well, you might have at one point been related to this person. In a way, yes. Which is actually a case that I think your listeners would find fascinating if they don't know about this series of cases, but there was, I live in Cleveland, Ohio. And back, it was in the 30s. And some people think it went on for longer than that, but nobody sure exactly how many victims. But we had a major serial killer out here and they called it the torso murders.

1:59:22And Elliott Ness was actually in charge of the Cleveland police force. He was safety director out here. And yes, I may have been part of a family that they do believe could have been that killer. Can you share any info on why they thought it was that killer? Well, so the torso murders, which we could go on for a long time about the torso murder. But well, he had medical background. But these bodies were found in a state where things were sometimes the only thing that was found was the torso. Other times the torso is found, but the arms are over here.

2:00:26The head is buried 200 yards away. They put it was a play with the police. Most of the bodies were some of the victims were never identified. And they had thousands of people. They made these things called death masks and had a fair hearing in Cleveland. And thousands of people went through. Nobody could identify the man, the people. So now some of the victims were identified, but a lot of them were never identified. Even the ones that they get like faces of them and had tattoos and everything. Weird. Very weird. But the main suspect was Frank Sweeney and he never ended up going facing trial or anything, but to

2:01:26he died in the same asylum. Was he a doctor? And you? And Ellie Ness definitely thought he was a main suspect. And you may have been related to some Sweeney's? Yeah. Which makes me think of Sweeney Todd. But no, that is just, it always fascinates me because you know this person tries to hide this and it gets like pushed under the right. It's like a you don't talk about a kind of subject with them. Correct. The family would not talk about that. You know, well, in his brother, there was a Martin Sweeney who was running for Congress at that time. So it was a huge. There could have been political stuff going on at that time and sometimes some people thought that

2:02:28you know, they were doing some of this causing him as a or calling him a suspect because um because I've put you know, just like to create a political problem. Ellie, that's as pretty good though. I will say we could do a we could do an entire episode on this. I mean, you'd have to spill you'd have to spill the gravy though. Which book what gravy? Which gravy? Your gravy on your connection. Hell no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. Tell to the dog. Oh my god. All right, Brian. Are you willing to die on the sword?

2:03:29100% you've got your man. For Jack the Ripper? Of course. Here's the thing that bothers me about my um so full disclosure, the thing that bothers me about my suspect is like and this should kind of bother us about all of them. Unless like but you said your guy died shortly after 1891, I think I already died. Right? So that makes a little bit more sense. But the how quickly these started how violent they were and then how quickly they ended. It just bothers the shit out of me. I see why they picked that one guy who like whose body floated down the river. But no, Stevenson so you have to think he was in another location when he did the murdering of like his wife and whatever those torso murders. Yeah. He moved to white chapel and the murder started and then he moved again

2:04:36and then died right after they stopped. Because you think if it was cross there would be like this gradual building up of his but didn't he live in that area for a very long time? Cross? Mm-hmm. Yes. So my argument is that there's usually like a building up as the murders get more and more grotesque but it was like they happened. Well that's why there was one of the murders that happened before the canonical five that I do think could have possibly been. It was the first white chapel murder that happened in white chapel that was not the gang related one and when they found the body she was stabbed like 40 sometimes and then described the killer um died later and her skirt was pulled up the same way the other victims were.

2:05:40How did you get the right then? And the reason why I like I think there could have been pre-killings is because a lot of these people you know it's just like anything else things evolve as we get better at things or as the same thing won't satiate the hunger. You know it's like that first killing might have been a certain way but then you realize oh I got away with it and I have all this pent up anger inside of me and all this other stuff um I'm still going Stevenson. I'm still going Stevenson. I mean you have to remember that just like Ted Bundy if you remember after he had been arrested and convicted he did these whole series of tapes where he was like well if I was the murderer I would do this never saying that he was until the almost two or three days before his execution did he admit

2:06:48that he did all these murders but before that years earlier he did this if it was me I would kind of confession just like how OJ broke that book if I did it I would have and that's what Stevenson was doing. I know really weird fucking shit to do something like that and I don't I don't dislike your your pick I don't dislike it I think I know how skeptical he's barbarian I know because once I broke it down I saw that he was in the vicinity of that first killing but I do love I mean when you find a person with basically blood on their hands they're right there and it's their walk to work and it's their you know their job they can have blood on an apron and nobody's going to think anything of it they're delivering me and they are in those vicinity at those times every day and then those other killings are like here's my mom's house here's my wife's house when I was just going to visit

2:07:49like like is it coincidental maybe and then there's also talk that maybe he was part of those torso murders too like again all these things have holes in them that have their speculation that you put up on all of it but when you can start putting people like I'm not going to take away from the fact that you can put that motherfucker right there he's working with the police he's writing books about it he's weird as fuck you got some weird ass shit happening before in his life like those aren't just coincidences either and that's what I was going to say is I know how skeptical you are about like the cults and that's why I love talking to you so much sometimes is because I fully accept it because I know like a bigger grander scale of what's going on with these cults but to break it down to someone who's never researched it let's say even if Stevenson had a weird mental disorder where he just became obsessed with the idea of the cult to the point

2:08:56of murder or to the point of acting out on certain beliefs he could still be our guy I I'm like an argument that he could be I mean there's a lot of people that could be jack the ripper but like we talked about before these people that they're bringing up are you know you can't place them sometimes you can't even place them in London I want to bring up one that like this is how ridiculous it got there was a lot of people claiming that Lewis Carroll who wrote Alice and I saw that I saw that he's a sick freak too but I don't think it was him he's a sick freak but he's in America mm-hmm I know I know and he's doing sick freak shit in America I know I know and we're trying to find out you know if it's who's jack the ripper that's what we're trying to find out so you know I try to take evidence for what it is and and the biggest things for me are can you put somebody in London white chapel area at that time and both of our suspects you can

2:10:00can you put them near crime scenes or in crime scenes in my case you can put somebody at the crime scene and who lied to police that's huge to me your suspect working with the mother fucking police next to police mm-hmm that can be suspect too he also comes out a cult a cult a cult is it his confirmation bias or is he in the occult I don't know I mean do I think occults or cults themselves exist yes what degree do they play in things I mean when you start going down some rabbit holes that's where I say like people overplay governments hands they overplay cult hands or Satan's hands you know that was popular in the 80s it's Satan Satan Satan it's cult this it's cult that and people are fascinated with that shit because it's mysterious mm-hmm I get it but we got a plan and we got to find what are the facts like if we reverse this what are the facts what you're telling me

2:11:06seems factual some of it some of it I don't know if it's factual or not it sounds more like here say but you can still put that guy Brian if you okay let's think of it from another perspective your wife ends up murdered in a similar fashion to the ripper victims you change your name and then you move to a new town where suddenly women are starting to turn up just like your wife did and then you're all obsessed with the cases which is a very rare belief I will say this what you're telling me is a very rare thing to have happened at that time yes he still don't know about serial killers back and they didn't call them serial killers I don't think that turned to you how till the 70s yeah so and I'm talking to 1970s not to 1870 right right right yeah so what I mean

2:12:08people don't know what to make to this and I understand you're asking me this question and it makes sense and I love a detective who says I don't believe in coincidences I think the problem here is we have coincidences on both sides yes coincidental that this motherfucker is in these areas my guy Charles Ross every single victim on his walks to work for the one day he has off it's his mother's house and his other like that's not just coincidental I'd have a that motherfucker arrested and be talking to him and and he was arrested and he's giving lies while arrested and he's also you know that's all suspect is fuck if he's not do but see I also look at it for what the times are then and people didn't trust police yeah you know what I mean and the police were also under a lot of pressure from the public to bring in somebody yeah I'm surprised somebody didn't get killed on behalf

2:13:11objective I'm actually I know I know just to shut the public up and say we got our man everybody calm down we're good we got we're gonna have a public hanging and you guys can throw your tomatoes tomorrow at 12 a.m. and I think a lot of the other people who were named were just to close the case yeah to say hey we're making a rest this is what's going on the newspapers you know we're asking for stuff every day you had multiple groups you had panic in the streets people drunk and crazy and everything else I don't know I mean it's hard to say and obviously we can't be definitive with it but I think we gave people I would I would just urge people to look deeper into the names that we gave and come up with your own if you come up with information that we missed provided because the truth is I can't be married to the idea of my suspect that's unfair

2:14:17to the truth yeah now if you want to ask you one thing before we wrap up the episode and that was the comment you made about how Jews was spelled yeah which I can't remember there it was Jews but there was a whole sentence that was written up on that one and it turns out that it could have been the way it was spelled was like J-U-E-W-E-S or something like that and it could have actually meant something else or been a word for something else but my thing is with Stevenson being so intellectual and clever and having medical training and writing articles for the police and having all this occult knowledge and being as smart as he was was Stevenson leaving occulted riddles for people now a butcher with a bloody apron doesn't seem as likely to come up with riddles

2:15:26like that as Stevenson would I mean again we're speculating but you're probably right these are all things I can say but what are these riddles coming from these letters that are bullshit well I think they're written in code for people who are of the understanding I don't know I don't know I don't know if any of those like I mean again we don't know we just don't know it's that's what I'm saying but I mean obviously the listeners can look into both suspects and draw their own conclusions I think both of them or another suspect you know I'd also say if you have a great idea who you guys think is a suspect share it and provide why you you think so with some sources not just like I had a dream last night

2:16:28it's so aint beyond okay don't tell me that because I don't care I'm not gonna believe it but if you like do some research watch some documentaries read into things and you have a good I'd love to hear it because I love these types of mysteries a lot of people love these types of mysteries these are great discussion topics but we do have to be fair I'll be honest when you first started going down the occult road you know my bias is definitely kicking I'm gonna be like errrr bullshit but I heard you out looked into it a little bit more you know there are some dude people do some stupid ass shit mm-hmm especially and there's weird coincidences there yeah I mean I'm like sitting there like that's some weird shit a day your life gets fucking hacked up and your mr occult and I'm gonna work with the police and I'm gonna do this and oh I'm 150 yard I'm here at the hospital oh like back day day yeah later fucking somebody's

2:17:35deck with their throats I mean there's a lot to it and I also say why some of these cases are unsolvable is because back then God only knows no DNA testing no forensic evidence all of the crime scenes were contaminated then we have all these divergence to look down because the second you feel like I'm on to the right suspect they throw James Maverick's diary in well the diver that's make me popular yeah be a tension I mean who who doesn't want to come out and say hey I've used science to figure out this case people have actually used DNA evidence to try to figure out and if you guys look into this you'll start realizing this there's DNA evidence to say it was

2:18:36that woman mm-hmm that we talked about some stupid tiktokers talkers trying to say it was that woman yeah and here's the thing I mean come on we got it we got to be better than that and then you got people saying hey it's this is Maverick guy Maverick guy here's his diary here it's how can I make myself popular how can I bring this into the line who doesn't want to say I figured out that Jack the Ripper case I think the real reality is no one's going to figure out this case because as you dig dig deeper and deeper and deeper there's holes and everything it does bother me and so your guy the difference here between mind and your guy and this is a credit to you in this particular case that's interesting it bothers me that the the murders don't continue because somebody that's sick and depraved that's getting that much uh who's even willing to kill two women in one night

2:19:37mm-hmm something happened to this mother's room did he get arrested did he die did he die did something happen like your guy dies in 1891 but that's still not even good enough for me because I'm like he's killing people weekly every other week he's killing somebody it might have been but if you think of my theory it might have been because he felt whether it was real or it was imagined in his mind that he had completed the ritual well I understand that that's what you going with but we gotta have something kind of great there and it could have been including his wife six victims and that's speculation I'm just saying Ryan but I know but you're just you're just it's speculating and I need something more concrete to that but my guy here it is same thing

2:20:40lives to 1921 and don't kill anybody it's the same way it's the same thing it's like what's going on well I can't a bad year you know I just made a bad summer for me five nine to kill five women in a way that is unforeseen in the times now Brian just in summary because we've given the listeners a lot to think about I know and I love true crime I love the occult while I don't love the occult I researched the occult and I feel like we put out a lot of possible solutions to the Jack the Ripper mystery but you always bring the fire each and every time you come on you gave us a lot of mysteries last time

2:21:41I hope I hope everybody enjoyed that episode I know I know the listeners love a good mystery but can you tell us what mysterious happenings are going on with the Cleveland Schwilb because I know that you had on a psychic medium or something like that she could go into people's past and well she's actually not a psychic what she does is she's a hypnotherapist and what I thought was interesting about this and and and full disclosure guys I'm not a very big believer in anything okay but that doesn't mean that I don't find it fascinating it doesn't mean that I don't let somebody talk or listen to me and this was actually something that kind of did resonate with me because these are people from all different religious backgrounds these are all

2:22:41people from completely different upbringings different parts of the world and obviously we're living in the Western society and this is a very Eastern philosophy or practice I think that's even better to say it's an Eastern practice so she hypnotizes them and she's got hundreds of cases of people that don't know each other talking about similar things this is what I did in my past life yeah these are the traumas I was dealing with in my past life this is what it was like when I died this is what it was like when I was in the soul realm this is the job I was given in the soul realm this is what it was like when I was born she goes people can remember their birth they remember their death she says when you actually bring it up under hypnosis your death is much less traumatic

2:23:44unless you're you're killed in a traumatic way then your birth she goes your birth is very traumatic to you as you're remembering it as you're living through it and she talks about people getting jobs in the soul world and and like help some people they can't figure out why they have anxiety or problems in this life but they're really dealing with traumas from past life that were never healed it was just really interesting stuff she's from Ireland originally she's got that thick Irish accent which fit it fit the bill perfectly but yeah no I'm having I have all sorts of different people on but I love a great interesting story me too and whether and I think it's up to my listener to decide to believe it or not I'll let my person tell their story and then it's up to you to believe that or if it's up to you if you want to try it out you know are you working on anything

2:24:52currently that you're excited about well just on my podcast yes well there is so for your listener sake like I do everything on my podcast right so like my dumb as we're doing this one the last episode I just released was three Italian women chefs that wrote an internationally best-selling cookbook and we talked to them about where do you get your ingredients in Cleveland and what should you do when you're cooking and like it was a very family oriented cookbook and it was really cool and we we discuss it but like I also like I had that more your Michelle on who does you know hypnotherapy but then I also like I have somebody that there's a couple businesses that I'm looking at there's two places in Cleveland that I really want to talk to and I'll tell you guys about it and if I do an episode I'll fill you in on it when it comes up in the future but the first one

2:25:56is there's a there's a place in Lakewood called Cleveland curiosities that opened up and Cleveland curiosities sells tarot card decks it's pretty pretty well uh nice that are well it's not just spiritual it's everything they sell human skulls they sell jarred remains of animals they have camel bone dies they have just these weird things and it's like I want to go in there talk to them see if they're witches and wizards well and they probably are and if they are that's great I mean I'll talk to them I'll probably end up a victim ejector ripper but you might you might how to go back to our roots on that one Brian and just you know plead the blood of Jesus all over you like hard interview like that well Julie you might not know this but I recently found up too

2:26:57that the witchcraft museum is in Cleveland get the fuck out nope and I want to go don't you dare go I'm going all right at least well live coming out of the creatures you better have seven crucifixes on you better say all your hail marries before you go up in that motherfucker well when I come out they better not be inverted tell you that yeah I'm proud there oh boy if you're close this my wonderful brother yep yep who who was big on big on your timey chong episode oh yeah and I know that Tommy chong is more of your era in his era the mine yeah so I was glad to bring him on and represent the Cleveland Schwil podcast because he brought out

2:27:59a lot of interesting information from Tommy and I feel like he is a bit of comedic relief sometimes even on Cleveland Schwil podcast oh Dave yes oh absolutely absolutely and you know what you need that yeah you need that we need to crack up your jokes up in there for this serious information sometimes because it especially when you're talking about like hacking bodies up if you can slip a couple jokes in there and that's okay you know and he keeps people interested as well because there was a couple times I wanted to break down laughing but I didn't for the sake of the episode all right okay for real though where can the listeners check out the Cleveland Schwil podcast so we have thank you for asking we have an Instagram and it's Cleveland underscore Schwil SCHWIL please come check us out you can see all the past episodes that we did and then what we're

2:29:06going to be doing in the future and then we're on if you look up Cleveland Schwil podcast I'm on all the big players I'm on Amazon I'm on Apple I'm on Spotify I'm on anchor I'm on Google so um you know a lot of our topics we do just interview people that are in the Cleveland area but really if you're into that particular topic it's going to pertain to you you know it's going to be something that you're interested in because I'm always interviewing people that are doing things that are nationwide they just happen to leave one so um even if you like ghost stories and stuff like week me and you did a um deathbed confessional type episode um or Halloween and then I did a Halloween episode of just like things that are ghost stories and Cleveland I was just going to say that check out the Halloween episode it's got a lot of cool stuff in there and that's why

2:30:07it's so great to have two podcasters in the family because you know our family get together's are not boring no they are not by any structure creation actually I want to be three podcasters in the family including my brother yeah it's yeah absolutely and but we all have a great time y'all with if you were flying the ball at any of these things that'd be a podcasters so oh hell yeah but I do love you so much Brian and I love the Cleveland Swill podcast I hope everybody goes and checks it out thank you so much for being a ripperologist tonight I appreciate you having me on and I do want to say I actually love all your listeners and I appreciate that you guys uh enjoyed the the outlaw of past episodes so much and um all the feedback that you guys gave on it uh please give some great feedback on any episodes I'm on because that way you can stroke my ego thank you

2:31:12haha I think that's the perfect note to leave it on all right but thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you on the next one yeah

2:32:14you