The Young Men Arrested for Bringing Bombs to Gracie Mansion Protest

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1:09Brian Lehr on WNYC. So as you probably know, over the weekend, two young men were charged with trying to detonate homemade bombs outside Gracie Mansion. Here is police commissioner Jessica Tish explaining the charges. The defendants are charged with attempting to provide material support to ISIS using a weapon of mass destruction, transporting explosive materials, interstate transportation and receipt of explosive materials, and unlawful possession of destructive devices. The bomb which did not explode was one of several devices recovered. It contained TATP, a quote, highly volatile material used in numerous terrorist attacks over the last decade, according to the New York Times. The motivation for the attack was apparently aimed specifically at a protest organized by a right-wing influencer, dubbed as an anti-Muslim protest, outside the mayor's residence. The two young men, Amir Balot 18 and Ibrahim Kiyumi 19,

2:14are both US citizens from Pennsylvania. Commissioner Tish said they both expressed support for ISIS or the Islamic State. Joining us now to break down the latest, including background on the two suspects, is John Leeland, New York Times reporter, who's been following the various threads of this. Hi, John, thanks for coming on WNYC with us today. Oh, thanks for having me, Brian. Before we get into what we know about the suspects, can you give us some context for the situation in which this played out? You do report that the attack was apparently aimed at a protest which had been billed by its organizers as stop the Islamic takeover of New York City, stop New York City public Muslim prayer. Stop New York City public Muslim prayer. Can you tell us about that protest outside of Gracie Mansion and the right-wing influencer who organized it? Well, this comes during the month of Ramadan, of course. And it's the sort of thing that we've started to hear more of

3:16since now current Mayor Mamdani started to do well in the primaries, sort of an anti-Islamic rhetoric. And this was started by a man named Jake Long who was one of the people arrested in the capital on January 6th of 2021 for beating officers with a baseball bat. And when he was in a federal prison, he had started a militia movement that went by the acronym of Napalm and I can't recall exactly but that's third four. But a right-wing influencer or something of a loud figure he was pardoned by President Trump. And he called this rally and it was a small rally, maybe 22,000 people had come to this. And then a much larger group calling itself run the Nazis out of New York City gathered in response to it. And so you can see what kind of moment we're at in New York City when there's opposing organizations called

4:18stop the Islamic takeover of New York and run the Nazis out of New York City. We're not talking about sort of sophisticated rhetorical arguments. There's just a passionate emotional opposition there. And these two young men, and these two young men from Pennsylvania, from Bucks County, Pennsylvania, middle-class communities there, both as you said, both the citizens of the United States were in some ways drawn to this. And we don't exactly know how they knew about it or how they got there even. We believe that at least we know something about one of their automobiles, but we don't know how the other one even got there. And it seems like from everything I've heard from the mayor and the police commissioner, there's no indication that this was some kind of organized group effort to commit violence against the white supremacist protesters that this was allegedly the act, the bombing,

5:22or carrying the bombs, the act of these lone wolf individuals. Correct? It appears to be lone wolf individuals and people who study extremist terrorism say that's what we're seeing more of now. That a decade ago we might have seen people who were directed by ISIS. And now they use the word inspired by ISIS. And that's what these young men said they were. And there is a video of the two suspects throwing two devices into the crowd. Were you able to review that footage or know what it showed? It shows one of the young men, Amir Balot, who's a high school senior in Pennsylvania, lighting an explosive device and throwing it at the others. And another, there's another snippet of him, lighting it and putting it on the ground and then jumping over a police barrier. And there are photographs, and I'm not sure if there's video of this as well, but of him after throwing the first,

6:27going backward and seeing as friend Kayumi and getting the second incendiary device from him. Police Commissioner Tish did say both men express support for ISIS. What evidence did she highlight? Several remarks that they made. One was asked, why did you do it? And he blurted out ISIS. Another one said that he had watched ISIS videos on his cell phone. And I think one of the things that to keep in mind is that there's a lot more that we don't know now than what we do know. And over the coming days, you've been involved in enough of these investigations to know that a lot of what comes out in the first couple days turns out to be in some ways off either completely wrong or just slightly short on nuance. And I think that'll be the case with this. Once we know a little bit more about what's in their laptops,

7:27what's in their cell phones, we'll have much greater profile of them. You spoke to a leader of Bolot's family's congregation, Bolot, one of the young men. And they told you that the congregation itself has been subject to some bigotry. Can you tell us some of what happened there? Yeah, they had, it was actually my colleague Kyle Bagginsnoss who spoke with them, a leader of the Turkish-American community in that area. And he said that the mosque that they belong to, that the family seems to belong to, that's a mere Bolot's family. That mosque in that Turkish-American community has nothing to do with these kind of anti-American ideals. But he also said that they had received a number of threats, I guess, last year, when they wanted to expand. At a press conference on Monday, Mayor Mamdani

8:29condemned both the anti-Muslim bigotry and the suspected act of terrorism. Let's take a listen. Anti-Muslim bigotry is nothing new to me nor is it anything new for the one million or so Muslim New Yorkers who know this city as our home. While I found this protest appalling, I will not waver in my belief that it should be allowed to happen. Hours is a free society where the right to peaceful protest is sacred. It does not belong only to those we agree with, it belongs to everyone. I will defend that right every day that I am mayor, even when those protesting say things that I abhor. Let me also be clear about something else. New York City will never tolerate violence, whether from protests or counter-protests. Many of the counter-protesters met this display of bigotry peacefully, with a vision of a city that is welcoming to all. But a few did not. Two men, Amir Balat and Ibrahim Qayumi, traveled from Pennsylvania and attempted to bring violence to New York City.

9:34They are suspected of coming here to commit an act of terrorism. Any end of that pressor by saying anyone who comes to New York City to bring violence to our streets will be held accountable in accordance with the law. This mayor gets scrutinized so closely for every word that he says, especially when it relates to anything kind of even broadly in this category. Are you reporting politically on how the mayor's condemnation is being received? I'm not, but my colleagues are. And we know that a number of people are upset, not just by what he said, but what he didn't say, which is the word ISIS and people are in sense that he had mentioned the white supremacy on the one side, but didn't mention this kind of violent Islamic extremism ideology on the other. Listen to rights. What strikes me about this story is a January 6th rioter who beat police with baseball bats is a terrorist. American citizens who brought bombs to her protesters are terrorists.

10:40Forgive me for that sound. Putting ISIS into the conversation almost deflects that these are two sets of American terrorists exercising violence on our land. Isn't that more appropriately and accurately framed as a civil war conversation? Sigh. So I don't know if this is beyond your portfolio as a reporter to comment on that, but it is an interesting observation that even if these individuals were inspired by ISIS, the person who organized the rally was already in effect a convicted terrorist and pardoned by President Trump. Even if the charge was in terrorism per se, beating police with baseball bats and involved with January 6th, and fair enough to label the kids with the bombs terrorists, but that maybe seeing it in terms of ISIS is a distraction from these sort of acts of civil war,

11:49if you will, in the United States. Interesting comment from the listener. Have you given anything like that any thought? Yeah, I mean, I think this reflects what I mentioned before that there's a difference between acts that are directed by ISIS and acts that are, quote unquote, inspired by ISIS. And that's the way the movement has been going in recent years. These are lone wolves. They're American adolescents who did this, well, you know, based on their lives in suburban suburb of Philadelphia. This isn't international terrorism. These are domestic acts. A few more minutes with John Leland from the New York Times, who's been reporting and writing about the competing protests and the arrests of two individuals who allegedly brought bombs or explosive devices on one side of those protests at Gracie Mansion the other day.

12:52John, another listener writes, why did Jake Lang, the organizer of the anti-Muslim protest, why did Jake Lang bring a goat? And I have an answer that I can read from Yahoo, which just, you know, indicates just how hatefully bigoted he is. But if you reported on the goat, I have not. But I'm happy to hear your answer on that, Brian. Well, from Yahoo, Lang also brought a goat with him in the Gracie Mansion protest, crudely describing the animal as mom Donnie's second wife. So just to say how extreme, you know, the hate and bigotry was, which of course does not justify bringing bombs and throwing them into the crowd or anything like that. But just to also discuss the kind of thing that this mayor probably uniquely in US mayoral history is having to deal with.

13:54You know, I think it says something about the moment we're in. We've had just a few weeks ago, US congressmen from Florida, Randy Fine, said, you know, if you had the choice to have a, between Muslims and dogs, it wouldn't be a hard choice for him. And Andrew Egl said that Muslims don't belong in American society, and he's a congressman from Tennessee. I don't remember a time when this kind of rhetoric was out there in such acceptable or mainstream places, such as US congressmen. NYPD statistics also show there were seven anti-Muslim hate crimes in the city in January, an increase compared to January of last year when none were reported. Also on Monday, Deputy Commissioner for Counterterrorism, Rebecca Weiner said, this is taking place against the backdrop of social media, the dynamic of online culture. It's not limited to ISIS.

14:55It's across the ideological spectrum. Younger people mobilizing to violence. It's something we are tracking very closely, unquote, from the Deputy Commissioner for Counterterrorism in the NYPD. Is there a sense that tensions are escalating and we're going to see more of either of these types of things in the city than we're at a time? Well, we've seen a lot of intense rhetoric since the war started in Gaza, and also much more since the Mayor of Mamdani started to gain traction in the primaries. And so I don't like to predict the future or especially to predict bad things, but I don't see the breaks on it right now. As to what she said, I talked about the online culture and the increase in the younger people that are getting involved in these rabbit holes. I think that's something that we need to look at very closely.

15:55The people that followed the best of terrorism say, we are seeing younger people getting involved in it. And you think about the online world of an 18 or 19-year-old. There's people trying to recruit you. People trying to demonize you. And there's the world's biggest corporations who are trying to hold your attention in an attention economy. And they've found that the way to hold your attention is through conflict and outrage. Speaking of a filmmaker the other day who's doing a piece on our divided culture and he says that we used to say that sex sells, but now what sells is outrage. And outrage is the thing that'll keep you on these social media platforms spending more and more time and increasing the bottom line of again, the world's biggest corporations. John Leland covers New York City Life for the New York Times. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks a lot, Brian. Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924,

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