Nancy Guthrie Investigation: The Digital Forensic Pivot, the Surveillance Lead, and What the Internet Disruption Thread Actually Means

0:00This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Bruceke and Robin Dree. Let's move over to another case that we've been following. 42 days, I think we're up to, I've lost track. No arrest, over 40,000 chips, more than a million dollars in reward money and one of the largest FBI task forces deployed in a kidnapping case in recent memory. But right now, sure, if Nanos has gone a national television and said investigators believe they know why this home was targeted and that the public should not assume they're safe. Okay, well, this is new information. 40 some days into this. Yeah, Nanos said that they believe they know the motive, but he hedged immediately not 100% sure. Nanos, but he's not quite sure. Jen, what do you make of any of this? Does he know or is is he just as he has seemingly a lot of this case said a lot of things out loud

1:05that don't really come to fruition and then when cross-track don't really add up all that much. Is there more going on behind the scenes here? Coburger asked like with fry or is this a totally different animal? Big take on this one. Yeah, he said to me, he laid out the motive from the beginning. He laid the groundwork for what the motive was and that was a kidnapping and this kidnapping went bad and there was no group of life. That has really been the entirety of the overarching theme of this case from the beginning and from watching the investigative pattern. You don't have the three children go on TV in tears reading a script written at least in part for BAU inclusive of silence of the lamb verbiage. You don't think that there is something to do with the ransom but you believe those ransom notes are directly connected or not. And then you have four more, you know Cameron go on after that saying please just contact us and show us she's alive.

2:11Give us some life approved that was his only message in that and then the subsequent one. Okay, we know she's not with us any longer but please let's get her body so we can celebrate that and then five and six the same sort of messages pleading to whoever did it. We forgive you. There's hope for everybody you know it's all this to me that showed from the beginning where law enforcement investigation believed this was and then you heard Sheriff Nannos use the words from the beginning. You know from beginning this is kind of where we thought things were going and we were right and yes he hedged his bet. But so no and then secondarily on the whole you know danger to the community it was so funny because please look at my tweet the day before he came out. And I said why is nobody talking about this the fact that there's a murder or not a murder. An abductor an abductor at this point out there running around who's capable of this kind of violence against 84 year old she's obviously injured bleeding.

3:18Why is no one talking about the fact that that person could strike again and then the next day he says this and remember fry never cop to it right he kept the community safe all the community safe and that was always a huge mistake back then. There's obviously somebody's capable of that they're capable of doing it again. So Jen so here's my questions on this because you know me I'm I'm the you're the slightly on this side of the deduction I'm on the other side. So here here's the numbers that I'm not quite sure about and I'm not quite sure why Nannos made the statement I'm curious about you're taking on too so I I looked it up again this morning so. Serial abductions in other words the threat of another abduction by someone who is abducting as a line of income a line of whatever it is. Likelihood of striking again 15 to 25% roughly for people at a certain age level above 70 we're talking less than 1% of serial abduction and now if it's in the other thing to is if it's targeted against celebrity.

4:23And we're talking there's been three examples in recorded history last one being in the 70s and 80s for a targeted abduction for celebrity of notoriety or relative of one and so if you're dealing with low averages of potential serial abduction or even targeted. Why is there still a threat like he's like he elevated to like you got to watch your homes you know or I'm not I don't understand how the two are coming together and then so I'm I'm just looking for that understanding of like all right so if there's a threat to community from serial abduction but the research says there's no threat to community for serial abduction it was if it's targeted for her of retribution and they've already done the retribution why would there still be a threat to someone else as I'm trying to understand that any thoughts on that. Yeah so glad you brought that up because I totally agree with you when you look at the statistics of all this like this is such an outlier but I will draw the attention of a very interesting case that took place just days before her abduction of another kidnapping of rich individuals they were in their 60s so to me that's not old right they're in their 60s but they were abducted they were tied up they were beaten.

5:37And they were demanded Bitcoin about an hour and a half from Nancy Guthrie just in January so just a north of her house in Scottsdale how that all came together were two morons came over from California in their teens that had somehow come on to this through signal was the app they used to communicate they were sent a thousand dollars they were purportedly controlled by red and eight that's the names on there to go and try to make this. This happened so you know when we're talking about statistics what are the statistics that to high value targets are targeted within an hour and a half of each other coming across state lines which when you look at where these billboards are in California. I mean I just still can't shake and I know the bureau is going to be looking at this hard just to rule that out or rule that in is there a group that is trying to like the Chilean bank bank but I'm sorry robbery folks the burglars I want to say remember they were very organized nationwide at particularly targeting.

6:55Celebrities are not celebrity sorry celebrities yes and basketball players you know famous sports people when they were at their games and it was very well organized and put together and so that was done by a group and the bureau got them at least part of that group and I was wondering it just has to be visited could this be something like that because it's just too much of a coincidence to me so in other words not targeting old people. Targeting rich people so I was and I apologize I didn't tell me about what do you what's the name of the case that is an hour and a half north because when I did the research obviously not a data bank yet so that did not pop up for me what was the name of that one yeah the well the case let me give you the details and it's all throughout my Twitter but itself take a look at there because yeah that that's the one data point I wasn't bringing into account that because again because when I did when I did the research you know of things that happen within in the county and within a hundred miles

7:55hundred and fifty mile radius nothing was popping up because that one was too recent that's probably why and so sorry Tony go ahead so if this is in fact if this was a kidnapping gone wrong and it wasn't a B&E gone wrong and shit Nancy becomes part of the evidence let's get rid of her you know what and and if other people could be at risk according to Nana of Nana said yeah there I mean if somebody's capable of doing this yeah and I guess anybody could technically be at risk but what does that say about how targeted this was to Nancy if really you know this guy could strike again I mean I suppose they they they targeting doesn't necessarily mean you know what we're sitting here knowing everything about Nancy before we go in maybe it's it's just kind of a light targeting we know that there's some money here you can tell that by the house that she lives in others could be targeted you know I guess a light target targeted would be a way of saying it not like super in depth we're targeting you because of your daughter like with Savannah's case is this something where it's just you know they're rolling the dice there's a rich house let's go see what we can get or or I guess what do you think they're in terms of how targeted Nancy was was it simply because she was had a million dollar house and there would have likely have been the chance of getting some good things out of there was more targeted because of who she was of who her daughter was in the house

9:24I am fully convinced other than I got to be careful this is one of these cases I got to be careful with confirmation bias yeah we're always looking for other facts that could disprove this belief but I very much believe this was not a burglary you don't go to a burglary with a full backpack and you do not leave from a burglary with the person in the house that does not happen when you talk about stats it's crazy that does not happen this guy went into a doctor that's my belief he was really guard up what she could and he had that backpack full of something to put over her head gag for her mouth that's why I don't believe that's past graded blood I believe that's blood droplets and I've got multiple examples of when a blood drop echoes out I am not a blood drop expert no commentating right now this blood drop expert or a blood spatter expert that I've heard from and those people that are blood spatter experts they would say I got to look at it under a microscope so I want to preface my whole blood spatter theory but from what I've seen those are the droplets battering out making that pattern that were held still as she was held I think this is an reduction it was gone bad because slow sadly I think she died and no longer do you have that proof of life abort abort abort go into hiding and I think what he's trying to say is great

10:51he's trying to say is there be another thing that both possibly this group that would want to target somebody else so and so my other question on this is all right so if we're going down the road of targeted abduction for ransom again you know me with my stats it's roughly 7 12 minutes in and out for the abduction what happened in 41 minutes well this is the sick part right oh god all right I won't get it totally into the weeds with the sick part but a couple of things I mean one there could have been some sort of interrogation that took place regarding her money and regarding what she could get a hold of and regarding all of that so that's the best case scenario partial scenario I think probably would have happened the bad scenario of all this of course is something much more dark and let's hope that that didn't happen but you know anybody cruel enough to an abduct an 84-year-old likely know they are not going to make this out alive I don't mean out of the house I mean case alive that's a pretty sick monster and I don't put anything

12:01past. What do we know I mean we have the the blood that was on the outside of the house we don't really know a ton about what was found inside the house it really hasn't been revealed as of yet one would have to assume I would imagine if there's blood splatter right there on the porch that there'd be something inside the house do you think the scene on the inside is is something that the investigators are really holding close to the vest right now for the investigative purposes of this investigation that reveal a heck of a lot more of that. More than might open our eyes to this case in a way that we are not seeing right now. Well a couple of big things right if we're you know again this is from Nanos which by the way Nanos is at least better than any source we have. Because you know you know the person who does somebody's hair that's married to the police officer I mean we just know but at least know with Nanos he has the ability to know. He has the knowledge base so when it comes down to that Tony I you know I think that I think he knows I think he's.

13:12I think they're on the trail and I think on the trail of somebody of Hispanic descent I say that because when you look at the billboards there in Arizona there in California there in Texas particularly focused in Houston if you look at the perpetrator's mug that we can. See a lot of details on those roomed eyebrows have always bothered me in their Hispanics love to groom their eyebrows I'm Hispanic I could say that just go to Puerto Rico or Mexico it happens at certain. Parts and and families and things like that and I think there's a reason they chose to put those billboards where they did Robin to agree with me they didn't just say let's go throw these up in Texas it's because yeah I agree they're they're probably going for demographic on it based on past experience past on what they're seeing inside the house that we don't see I agree also why we're probably not seeing. Seeing more see like one of the theories you know I think you know you are definitely lining on a lack of leakage coming out because either there's no one else too

14:14leak or the people around aren't there's no one around too leak because they're not present in the country or even present left on the earth anymore whatever it is but there's I think I think there's a bit of graphically targeted for reason one more question cadaver dogs being called off I know that's been kind of been made a somewhat of a big deal I don't know how big of a deal it is I was talking with Vinnie about that the other night on court TV what's your what's your take what why why call off the cadaver dogs at this point in the investigation. So two things first of all I need to go back to your other question because I did a terrible job answering in that house so sorry when I saw the picture in the bedroom you know that came from the NBC from 13 years ago yeah yeah when I go in and went a part of a team and do an arrest this is exactly what I want we want is we want tactically that person corner where they can get out.

15:16The wall on this side the wall on this side very little room there's no place for them to go right I think that because we know initially they talked about the called homicide in they saw what they needed to see I can only imagine what that little corner of that what her bed what her nightstand what that lamp I'm just in picturing when she first is awakened and CZ there was just this one abductor or another abductor on her and that chaotic situation that would happen and I think that that is something that we could count on being in the room is being very disorganized in that corner that answers that other question you ask me as far as the cadaver dogs and this is something I just imagine this so you're in charge of this case and you think you have information as to what happened in other words that she went to Mexico that she's really in Houston was went to Houston Texas or whatever it might be

16:19and now you are saying to act you search and the Cade de Navy and Madre's Husquedora's you're saying hey listen I want you all to go out in the desert and search all of these and these search grids and this is what we're going to do and you know she's not there and later they say you've known she wasn't there for the last 30 days and you sent out these people out there when they could be helping other families just something to consider that's the first thing that came to mind when I thought about it as to why maybe he's not supporting it just a thought. Yeah and also definitely part of that they know that it would be a useless endeavor at this point and also you know those dogs they're limited resources and there's a lot of other as we've covered a lot you know Nancy's case is not unique in the sense of there's goes a lot of missing people out there

17:19there's a lot of people that can't be found that are there potentially deceased and so those cadaver dogs they're using a lot of places other than this one so I think it's also a matter of they have other things that got to be doing as well. Yeah there's obviously still far more questions and answers in this case and here we are five weeks six weeks I don't even I'm I'm off. 844. What week? We're day 44. Day 44 my goodness you know your thoughts in the comments section on YouTube and sub stack the links are in the description will continue that conversation right there. Want more on this case and others then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Brusky and the Hidden Killers podcast.