Nancy Guthrie: Contradictions, a Sheriff's Disputed Record, and an Investigation That Keeps Raising Questions

0:00Tax season has arrived and doing taxes without the right help can feel overwhelming. Into it, TurboTax is here now to guide you through it with confidence. Match with a TurboTax full-service expert who handles everything for you from start to finish. Your dedicated expert checks every single deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And the best part, you'll see real-time updates on your expert's progress right on your phone while you live your life. Plus, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full-service experts, real-time updates only on iOS mobile app. AI this, AI that, I get it. I'm so sick of people telling me to just use AI. But weirdly enough, Wix's new AI website builder really works for me. It's called Wix Harmony. And here's the thing. I get to choose how to use AI. I get everything I need to create a website and I can either have ARIA, my AI agent, design things for me, or I can edit things myself.

1:05Try it for free at wix.com slash harmony. You know what I realized? The hardest part about building a website isn't making it look good. It's getting what's in my head onto the page. But I've been playing with the new Wix Harmony editor and I'm impressed. You can literally just tell it what you want, or if you're picky like me, jump in and move things around yourself. The nice part is, you can hop between AI and hands-on editing so you end up with a site that actually looks the way you pictured it. Try it out for free at wix.com slash harmony. It's tax season, and by now, I know we're all a bit tired of numbers. But here's an important one you need to hear, $16 billion. That's how much money and refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud. Here's another one. One in four honest, hardworking, tax-paying Americans has been a victim of identity theft. But it's not all grim news. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second for your personal information and alerts you to threats you could easily miss on your own.

2:07If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US-based Restoration Specialist will fix it, backed by another good number. The million dollar protection package. In fact, Restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with LifeLock identity theft protection for tax season and beyond. Visit LifeLock.com slash iHeart and save up to 40% your first year. That's 40% off at LifeLock.com slash iHeart turn supply. This is the Big Breakdown. A long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dree. Let's move over to another case that obviously we've been talking about quite a bit. There's not a ton of things that are new in this but there's still a lot of questions that are coming in. We are damn near 50 days now. No suspect name of the Nancy Guthrie

3:12disappearance. No arrests. The doorbell footage of the masked man at her front door is still the only image investigators have publicly released. A new camera footage recovered apparently this week from her property apparently shows not much. listeners, the guys have been sending in questions about this all weeks. We're going to try and get to some of those. If you got some in the live while we're doing this, please drop them and we will try to get to them in Todd. If there's anything that stands out, you want to jump in here that you're seeing in the comments. I can't read them very well because they're over there. I got them right next me too. You got them too. Okay. So let's start with this first one because it's driving me insane investigators are now specifically asking neighbors about January 11th and January 24th. Both weekends, both weeks before she was taken. Robin, if the FBI is zeroing in on those specific dates, what does that tell you about what they think happened? Because that sounds like they're building a surveillance timeline on a suspect. What do you make that they're zeroing in, you know, at least asking questions of residents of specific dates? Yeah. I literally covered this this

4:17morning. So I've been doing even more research. You know, me and Mike. Yeah. Crazy research. So in here's the numbers in roughly 70 to 80% of home invasion cases, the residents have has been staked out in advance. And typically what they're staking out is security systems. So let's do our thought experiment. In those cases where they got new still images of that and video, I think of that same person it looks like just minus the gun and the holster on those dates. Again, looking very casual front door, moving around, no sense of urgency and most notably no reaction. So I said to myself, place myself in a situation. If everyone else that's listening to and in watching, if you have a ring cam or an S cam or something, what typically happens is someone's on your front step. It goes off. You hear, you hear the chime inside. And when you hear that, what you'd expect to see, because we have kids that run across our driveway in the middle

5:17night or something like that, they're playing and when they hear it, you see a reaction. When we have an animal in my driveway that triggers it, they stop and they hear a reaction. So what we didn't see from this guy was a reaction to a chime, something going off. And so what what perpetrators will do is they're going to stake out locations and test for security systems. So I think they are then zeroing in on recambition in neighborhood because his behavior says he's done this before. A lot of people have said it looks like he's done it before. Has anyone else seen behavior like this on the ring cams, on the Ness cams anywhere within like one to 300 mile radius because this is going to be a repeated pattern of them testiness. It happens all time. The other thing too, we only know what we're being presented in the public. And so all my observations on my theories, whether it was targeted for Nancy or targeted for something, an object in that house comes from what's being presented to the audience, you know us in general

6:17public. But when you analyze everything, typically when you're staking out and testing pre entry, testing pre all these things, it looks like they're testing location. If it's targeted for robbery, they test locations. If it's targeted for individual, they're staking out individuals. Now she was definitely doing a pattern. She did go to dinner at her at her daughters and son-in-law's house every Saturday. So that is very, very consistent. Taria for burglars, I know some people have said why not go and go into this house of its burglary when she wasn't home and at these things. The stats on this say they will even though the house might be empty during the day when she's out at a family or friends, if it's daylight during that time period, they're always, not always typically burglars, about 80% of time are going to go at late hours after night when they're when they're short of not being observed by neighbors

7:18by other ring cams, things like that. So it fits that pattern. If that's what we're doing. And the other thing too, that was a new kind of new that we haven't talked about too much. And that is the sheriff, the crazy sheriff who's now under trying to get recalled. And you did a good piece on sub-sac on that, the likelihood is a little slow. It's so slim, yeah. But I analyzed his statement because we're, his statement about, I don't, I didn't have the exact language, but I lived it up. The statement about saying for the public to be on alert that there's still a threat out there, his actual language he used was language that used if they suspect it as a burglary, not as an abduction. I compared it to Elizabeth smarts things. There was like three or four other cases where I looked at sheriff's language where they put a warning out to the public. His was not congruence with the language put out if he believes it was an abduction. So 80%. And so again,

8:19I'm just looking at data points of what. Yeah. And the sheriff, and it kind of leads us to the next question. The sheriff had said that the suspect could absolutely strike again. And then his own department puts out a statement saying there's no updated public safety risk in the same week. Context is important. And I think because we go into the statement of he could absolutely strike again, that's, that's going to be colored by what you view, what each individual views as the goal of this person, porch guy, was he there to abduct? If you're seeing that and you think, oh, he was there to abduct her, he could absolutely strike again. You're, you're taking that and going, oh, he could absolutely kidnap someone again and take them or he could absolutely go burglarize somebody's home and hope to God that it doesn't turn out again where somebody has to go missing. With that being said, if someone, if this is their lifestyle, if this is their

9:20MO, this is how they, they provide in in their own minds for their family or themselves, by if it is a burglar stealing. And then something happened and they had to get rid of the evidence being Nancy. What are the, I don't know, I don't know if there are odds or stats on this. But what do you think about the idea that they're, they might be back out there burglarizing homes again. I mean, just because this one went wrong and it hasn't been solved and maybe the body is gone and they'll never be found. Does that make them take a step back and go, I'm done burglarizing homes. That one really got me and we had to get rid of a body. I think what I'm going to do anymore, I'm going to go work at the pomada. I don't think that that is necessarily how that sort of brain functions. But what do you think the stats are? The odds are that this person, if this was a burglary gone wrong and Nancy somehow got mixed into it, Nancy's gone now that they're not already back out there doing their burglar thing. It really depends on what the intent was. If they're intent

10:25to burglarize was because they have a certain need, they need to satisfy their, in their lives for some monetary gain for something and that needs been met and there's no need to burglarize again and the risk outweighed the reward. Remember, fears are greatest motivator and if they fear more than they crave, then they're not going to do it anytime soon, depending if they're addicted to it or not because that plays into it as well, obviously. And just think of in terms of, because you brought up the word, you know, the sheriff did about threats and having abductions again. Well, if she was a targeted abduction for Nancy herself, well, there's no other Nancy's out there, so where's the threat? If it was for retribution against Nancy or Savannah in some way and she's out of the picture, so where's the threat? Again, no leakage in any other ways on that. So if we have a targeted burglary, could this individual potentially definitely a burglar again because they have in the past? Yes. And also think about this too, if it was targeted for abduction of Nancy, particularly,

11:26why do you look so fluid like he's done this before? There's only one Nancy. So see what I mean, the things kind of fall apart in these things. Again, not conclusive, but you just look at the data that we're seeing. That's why the language, the behaviors, again, I am completely on board with that house was targeted for something inside. Just what that is is whether it was biological human being or an object is what the debate is up for. But I really don't think it matters at this point. We still need to find both. I'm still optimistic on this. Believe it or not, just because they're now able to check a lot of other things for behaviors that match us because if we go along the theory that he's done this before, there's going to be other people that are checking their cameras and saying again, within a radius of a couple hundred miles, I would think you're going to get something. As Jennifer Kaufendevs are put up to, they're signs that they put up billboards all the way to Houston as well. I think that circle that they're looking at is pretty large because again, this is a

12:29community with really spread out houses. She brought up, there was one other abduction in that area that was north of it, I thought. I guess my question on the billboards is this because Houston's a long ways away from what she was. What sort of thinking goes into that choice to buy billboards? I mean, the FBI, it costs money to buy billboards. You know, you don't, you don't, FBI doesn't go to the billboard company. Hey, where the FBI, we'd like to take some billboards out. Here you go, they're free. No, it costs thousands of dollars for a billboard. There's a lot of money that's coming out of somebody's budget to put these things up, especially in a city like Houston. They're going to be very expensive. They're hitting a lot of eyeballs. You're collecting sometimes tens of thousands of dollars for a single billboard. So who's making the choice as to where these billboards go and why is there some information on the back end here? Because we've been talking about Houston being very heavily bombarded with these billboards

13:32other than it has a fairly similar demographic makeup of population as to where Nancy is at. Why Houston? Is there something back behind the scenes that the FBI is basing this on? Or, or is it, is it clout? Is it, let's make, we don't have anything. So we want, you know, the public to be on our side. So let's make it really look like we're really involved in this and we don't have anything to go on. So all we can do is kind of put this out there not to say that they're not working this, but when you don't have anything and you want the public trust on you, you know, you're going to have to grandstand a little bit and let them see, we're caring. We're caring at the very least. We're asking for your help with all these billboards. I mean, what is the thought process there that Houston is lined with Nancy Guthrie billboards? Boy, you'd really love to think that law enforcement is putting all the thought that you just did into it, aren't you? You know, but having been in it for so long,

14:32do they get a good deal? Yeah, you know, me, I'm the glass hat full of most things I will see, but when it comes to decision-making processes, both of individual morons like this guy that broke into the house and did whatever he did inside Nancy's house or law enforcement at large, I tend to go on, people tend to take the easiest answer first. And so I'm on the fact that, well, again, thought I have no idea. They could have been completely strategic in what they're doing and they had a great team come together and said, hey, here's the most effective place to put this together. Or you had someone on the inside, hey, we got to get a lot of bank for a buck. What's the greatest advertising company we could have to get as much billboards up for the cheapest price we can? That's going to give us a positive image in the public that we're doing something. I have seen that second answer more than I've ever seen the first answer. Because so then you got to look at reps. So let's look at this, Tony. Let's look at reps. How often, as this department, or law enforcement in general, in this area ever put up billboards for a missing person? If they don't

15:37have a rep, you know, like repetitions having done it before, and this is their first rep, they're going to learn on this one, if it was effective or not effective, and it's the first time they're doing it, they're going to go, what's the biggest bank for our buck for investing in this kind of advertising and marketing? Yeah. And why, why is the picture of Nancy on the billboard? I mean, we know what Nancy looks like. Why is the perpetrator not up there? Why don't we have a close-up of what we have? I know there's like not great image or we have it, but there is a close-up with the mass. You can see why the hell is him and his image not on the billboard? I mean, again, it kind of goes back to the planning of this billboard. Was that one? Yeah. I mean, who made the decision of putting Nancy's face on the billboard? Nancy's missing. I mean, I get it like when a missing person's case, and this kind of is that, but it's more so let's figure out the perpetrator at this point. So these billboards went out. Why are we not looking for that? Well, and I get it, maybe just because it grabs your attention, because you see Nancy Guthrie, and so it might be recognition. It's kind of like throwing the word sex up and then saying, then by actually putting

16:40the advertising with it. Do that. Put the perpetrator's name up, put perpetrator, Nancy Guthrie, and one side, and just the word sex, and then the word, then the FB iPhone number, and see what happens. Like suddenly they get flooded with more tips. Yeah. I'm, you know, given the pattern behavior we saw, I have seen so far though, with messaging, since billboards are another form of messaging, I'm tend to be a little cynical on the thought process that went out. Yeah, that's a good one right there. That's a very good one right there. But again, the choice and the ability to control where they go. That's always, I mean, you know, we're, I mean, and I apologize, I know me look everything up. I have not looked up ever since Coffin Defer brought up the billboard issue. I hadn't looked up how billboards, location or choice or anything like that. I've seen, you know, missing people billboards before. That's not really a new thing. I guess the curiosity for me is the choosing of this box. Locations. Yeah. I'm always like, like, why? And they're not cheap. It's not, and then the billboard companies don't do this for free. So, yeah, I just, that I'm curious.

17:44I love to know the top. So here's another level of, I love doing the, you know, how to, how to sausage is made kind of moments behind the scenes. And so billboards aren't cheap. Okay. So maybe, you know, my favorite word, maybe. So in a world where social media, marketing, and selling ad space as, as all our streaming services are more and more inundated with ad space, you know, things like billboards are getting pushed to the way side a little bit more. And so there's also a potentiality that a billboard company that has seen a drop in revenue might use as a bolster to say, hey, look at our billboards up here on to other potential marketers saying, listen, you know, we'll give, we'll give the law enforcement guys a break so people can see how affected the billboards are as well. Yeah, I mean, I'm guessing they probably got a good price. You know, I'm get, I bought billboards before when I own an ad agency. And I know how the process works. They're not cheap. I bought them for the government before. I, as an ad agent, more data points on time. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I've worked, I think it actually was the FBI.

18:50I was doing some work for a long time ago. It was a recruitment campaign. If I remember right, this was long time ago. And I mean, you get like a lower rate sometimes, you know, when it's something of that nature, almost like political rate, but yeah, but it's still, they don't do it for free. And a good point there too. Someone might have sponsored them, you know, by creative on geography. Maybe how? I mean, it's the FBI's billboard. I don't see the, I don't even know the path to how that would even work. I mean, I mean, it was the FBI's bill. I don't know. I mean, I guess anything is possible because the FBI does not accept charity in that way. I mean, I remember during 9-11 in New York, people wanted to donate even just food, water, sandwiches to us. I mean, like we didn't have cell phones during 9-11, and so people wanted to donate like cell service and cell phones so we could use them during the course of investigation. We turned it all down. NYPD took it all, but we had to turn everything down. We weren't allowed to take anything. Well, can we look at it as a bribe? I mean,

19:52and if someone had, I mean, like there are certainly good, hearted, wonderful people who just want to help. And here, take what I got. You guys deserve it. You need it. But then you can also have nefarious people using that as an end to, I, I, there, I saw the, uh, locally here. Uh, currently the TSA is, is, it's a nightmare in most places. Um, and I saw our local airport here, was actually, and then I don't know what the status of this is, but they were asking for donations to help feed the TSA people. Sounds lovely, but it's actually against the law to, uh, to give donations, even in this sense, to, to, especially for someone in that sort of capacity, um, you know, because it could be, it could be used as a bribe for the wrong people in the wrong place. I know we're, I know we're going to far down a rabbit hole in this one, but again, 9-11 in New York City, they would actually have the phase that people would set up for law enforcement, and everyone at every single agency in the world that was part of, part of 9-11 in New York City

20:55went through these buffet, they're beautiful, set up by Salvation Army and everything. Everyone except us. We got to stand outside watching everyone get fed as we were just covered in muck. Yeah, that's good stuff. That's interesting. Yeah. So that's, um, yeah, obviously not a whole lot, new here on this case. All right. Still far more questions than answers. Um, you know, here's the movement though. I think, I think the, I think them recambe seen on those dates and checking ring cams for those dates and stuff. I think that's an interesting movement. It is. Your thoughts in the comments section on substack in YouTube. Be sure to weigh in and we'll continue the conversation over there. Want more on this case and others? Then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Brusky and the Hidden Killers podcast. This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dree. Let's go over here 40, what, 48 days? 49? I don't know. We're near 50. No, we're

22:03and this week, uh, the Ashara front of the investigation. Nados, uh, exposed for lying under oath about his own law enforcement background. Surprise. A formal recall is now in motion. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about the, uh, the lying under oath. Uh, they asked him, you know, had there ever been any sort of suspensions or any sort of disciplinary records or disciplinary actions in your past? Nope. Nope. Not that I'm aware of. Turns out there was. It goes way back. It goes back to the 70s and 80s, actually, uh, in El Paso, but there's quite a storied history over there that, uh, you know, kind of rushed away to the, the past, um, but there was a lot. There was a lot of issues, uh, that Nana so allegedly has, uh, in his past. And I guess more than anything else, not necessarily just the issues, um, it's, it's the credibility factor. This is a man who already has had his credibility drug through the mud, really by his own doing. Uh, and then you add this to it. It's just kind of like, all right. Um, are we wondering why no one's found Nancy?

23:07This might be where to start. Uh, I mean, uh, Jen, what's your thoughts on, uh, on this new revelation as we get into the weeds more on the people that are behind the investigation and defining Nancy got the ring. Okay. So first of all, I'll say this is, I think it's important to understand the, the, how a recall works. So a petition has to be signed in his case by 120,000 people that are eligible to vote. I mean, it's so funny. I keep seeing everybody on Twitter. How do I vote? You can't, you have to be there and be a resident. Yeah. Well, you have to be a resident, have to be legal. You have to be eligible to vote blah, blah, blah. And so that's number one. So basically they're going to have to get about a thousand votes a day. It's a lot of, or signatures

24:10and, you know, votes, however you want to call it signatures on this petition. I researched this because Robin loves research. I'm popping on again right now as you're speaking now. And I mean, now I was like, now that I come on with you guys now that Robin is also involved. I'm like, gosh, I gotta get numbers. I gotta get some numbers here. So anyway, um, the numbers don't look good for successful recalls. No, they don't. And back in, I think it was, I don't have my notes right here, but I want to say just as recently as 2014 in people, they tried to recall that sheriff in Maricopa County. They've reached out or tried to recall sheriff in another county. They tried to recall it like they've, this is not unusual to be honest. And let's also keep in mind who started the recall. The opposition, the opposition started the recall. So this didn't come from citizenry from the opposition. So I just think it's important to understand how this works. If

25:16they get 120,000 votes, then there is a recall election. And somebody or more than one person whoever is eligible to run for that post or position can be on that ballot. And then there will actually be a recall election. So my only point is there one of my only points. Well, my first point is just I like to understand how all this person, the second point is this isn't going to happen overnight. No, no, 120 days to get 120,000 signatures recall elections typically about a 17 percent success rate of even getting there to the actual recall election because you said about a thousand signatures today and they have to be valid and they have to be verified. It can't just be, hey, put your signature down with no phone number. Like you have to like, it's fill it out and then verified. So 120,000. And I looked at the stats on this, too. And I want to, I know Robyn's like waiting for. I know my head from doing this one is is is so if you're wanting to get 120

26:21valid signatures because that's what you're going to need. They need to be valid. You need to get roughly probably about 160,000 people to sign this thing because you're going to have several thousand that are just not going to be valid. So you have to rank higher than that. And you're talking about a county that's pretty damn split on whether they like nanos or not. The rest of us out here in the ether. Yes, we all criticize him. This is that there's half of the area that thinks he's dandy and they voted for him. So you got that going on. Robyn. Yeah, probability 10 to 17%. Yeah. And that's actually when you're going down to probability, and this is based on the number of eligible voters, number of people that actually voted in the election of nanos, they need about 25% of the total people that actually voted for nanos to actually go back to the polls actually on the recall. So overall probability taking all these things into account that you're highlighting Tony. Overall, probability, successful removal combined,

27:23five to 15%. You're going to put any money down on that one on the potley markets? I'm not. I don't I don't think I would either. I don't know that they have enough people. Number one, just the manpower to do it is insane. I mean, can it be done on something where people are really, really driven? Yes, I don't know that you're going to have enough people that are driven on this. And also to Jen's notice, or I'm sorry, Tony yours, the people that initiated this was not the population, which you then have a higher chance and probability of getting to 25%. This is done by political opposition and political opposition to nanos in this county is been huge. You know, when I looked back at the naysayers about him, remember, I did a lot of research on him individually when when all these things were coming out. Remember, he's he's batting 500 across the country when it comes to his statements, misdamements and and and granted. He's got a great

28:25department underneath them because their their clearance rate is so high comparatively. I mean, I think you're on with me last time one of the times I went on about it. And I mean, he had 100% his department had 100% granted only 12 for 12 and homicides last year. But overall in the last five years, it's been in the 90s in the 60s for every other department. So he's got a very strong department, but there's a lot of infighting. There is turnover, there's issues, but you always got to ask yourself that question, are the things that people are saying, is it politically driven or data driven? And that's where these things get really, really tricky to figure out because that when you're because that you're trying to assess, is this righteous or is it a grudge? It's very which also could be exactly the same. Someone hijacking it, so he is the political opposition hijacking the anger for nanos right now to use it for their for their own advantage. And and and and last point on this. And the problem with all this is it's such noise distracting for what really needs to be done. Not just in Nancy's case, but in all the case,

29:26they're covering this is a huge county. The number of sworn here is huge. I mean, it's a suburban area, but the high population because it covers so much territory. So every time they're they're spending time with this with this noise, it's distracting from doing the righteous work on behalf of the people. Yeah, no, my soapbox. Yeah, I mean, it's it's one of the things I think that a lot of people, you know, because they're going to compare what these new findings and we're learning a lot about the eighties in nanos. I think it'd be interesting to do like in eighties, AI of nanos, you know, in an eighties scenario or something and dressed up in the eighties. Like what does that look like in eighty two? Yeah, I mean, it turns out he got fired. The day I was born or we we stepped down the day I was born in 82 when I was doing that story earlier today, but it's people are going to look at this and they're going to go, okay, if I lied on my resume, if if I pretended that I didn't have all these disciplinary things going on against me,

30:27and in each of them had different levels of severity, some were just tardiness to the job, some were more serious, some were assault on, I mean, there was like some serious issues that were being brought up against nanos back and they were so there was quite a few. He had a track record of kind of being a tornado wherever he goes. People are going to look and go, well, if I lied on my resume and they found out later, I wouldn't be able to keep my job. Yeah, but you're not an elected official and that's different. You can you can do that. You can lie all you want and if the people vote for you, they vote for you. Should there be more levers that can be pulled in situations like this or are we in a, is this a good thing that we have? It is as difficult as it is to recall someone like this, Jen. Well, I just think that there are so many factors to look at. I mean, you know, and I think the reason Robin and I like armchair quarter backing a case is so easy because we sit here and we can talk about all the mistakes. I mean,

31:30there are some glaring mistakes and at the end of the day, nanos is in charge of this case, even though he likely didn't make several of these calls for us to clear the crime scene after 20 hours and to just, I think he just trusted his people. I remember he was out at a basketball game, having a good time. Right at the beginning. I mean, his optics driving around in that white multi-colored vet. Just, you know, I just, I'm just, it's a beautiful car and I don't like anybody. Look, I think it's great when people succeed. I love people to succeed to save up and have those gizmos that they want, but he's just such a bad optic right now when everything is on him. I mean, if I were like consulting for him, I would just say, can you just please stay behind your desk just to your work and try to get this case solved. So to me, a lot of it is the optics. Yeah,

32:31he lied. And that, I tell you, in the bureau, you lie, you're done. Uh-huh. Yes. That's a strict, strict policy on that. But a lot of these don't, and he's an elected official. Yeah. And the challenge with the optics and why it's so important, you know, and Jen brings up a great point is like, he's not the one really making the calls on us. It's the lead investigator whoever that is. Because again, their, their department's very strong in this. But here's the problem with the optics. Optics drive public sentiment. And if the, I mean, so think about this, if you had someone sitting on a fence that has a tip, they think might be, or someone even closer to this guy, or someone that might be teetering with their own safety about whether it's safe to actually call on this tip and regardless of money or not, because they fear for their lives. If the optic is that the, that the clown at the top is buffoon, would you really trust that this, that this clown can keep you safe if you call on that tip? That's one of the reasons why optics

33:32are so important because even though he has nothing to do with it, that optic is that he does. And so that's why it really goes an awful long way. Because again, he's the face of the department, public trust and confidence or institution organizations that the person at the top has to display. You should have trust and confidence. And if someone's acting like that, your respective of the impact they might, may or may not have on the investigation, you got to change your behavior. This is, I mean, it's a prime lesson in know who you're voting for. Don't just go with the one that you saw the most signs for in people's yards. Go for what you actually believe in, what you know, because I think if people had done a little more research on this guy, I mean, they already voted him once and he was, he lost that he came back so people did have some history on the guy. I don't know. I mean, it's, they are reflect, are elected officials are a reflection of us. And unfortunately, the reflection is very much looking back at people

34:34who are not very aware of what's going on around them. And good point by Candy Corner, Cornell right there. If he lied to once, he's going to do it again. Yeah, you know, again, that arc of behavior. This is all track record. It's back to the seven things. Long arc, man. Long arc of of of controlling the narrative. You know, I don't like accusing people of lying, but people do like to control narratives to their advantage. He lied under oath about his about his history. That's that's where the lie came in. And again, I mean, it's like others, you know, when people get caught in this may have the the foresight to go, you know what? Yeah, kind of really screwed up. Maybe I should step down at some point. I don't expect that from him whatsoever. He's he's going to keep treading the course until I'm guessing he's out of office because this time has run up. But the one other thing on this we were talking earlier. I know you guys both have some thoughts. Not that it necessarily matters either way on this case, but but some more

35:34interesting thoughts are are coming about of of porch guy of what was going on with the foliage before he he goes over and puts the foliage on top of the camera. Was there a key? I know there's some some thoughts that you guys have Jen what's your thoughts on that? Do you think he was looking for a key out there and did he get a key? I actually don't think that. No. I mean, when I initially heard that I watched it, you know, 20 times like everybody else has that particular. I don't think he was looking for a key. I think he as an after see how he knocks. So what he his right hand is doing is knocking or trying to get, you know, on the camera, right? And then his left hand is actually I think trying to open the door because as I've said, I really believe he has an accomplice that's already in there and his job is to disable the camera. The again, this is my hypothetical. This is what I believe from all I have seen. And so then I think he goes pegged. I'm not sure, but it

36:40just looks like he puts that up there. Like pay attention because why wouldn't you let me just ask to see it right here. That's all I have to cover my camera. Yeah. Why would I go like this? You know, to cover my camera. So I just wonder. I mean, I just try to look at things lots. Yeah. Yeah. If there wasn't accomplice, how would the how would the other accomplice be in there and not have been caught on on this camera unless we're talking about another entry point or something? Oh, no. The other entry point, I believe, and always has believed. Okay. I believed is the back. And remember, do you remember the locksmith going? He filled it around with that back door, the locksmith's camera. I mean, he's there doing something with that back door. So that's why I think that's the entry and they said, well, we're not going to take her out where we went in because we've got to walk around the whole house. Just think about cameras they could possibly see. So you think they they gained entry through a back door, which makes more sense because there's a double gate

37:42on that front door and the back doors and have camera covered. John, I'm even a side windows didn't and they weren't double barbed or anything. So and so why wouldn't they go through another egress and set it going through the front door with this camera? Any what are your thoughts on that? So my thought was is that you have the where the car would be that circle drive is right there. So basically now you have wounded Nancy and you literally have to walk such a short distance compared to taking her out, walking around the entirety of the house, not 100% understanding where other cameras are and if you're going to get caught on a motion camera or or anything else from a neighbor. Remember and and they did recon it would seem there was a camera that was on the roof or they worried about being caught with that camera seeing them. Remember when that points out to the pool to kind of that back region. So I just think they didn't want to carry her all that way.

38:42So why wouldn't you come out the front door rather than trying to go in it if you're already in the house. I'm thinking out loud on this one because the other thing that I was on Nancy Grace the other day and I didn't know this. I hadn't heard anywhere on you probably have you covered much more thoroughly. Apparently there was a one of the theories why there's no visual on a cars because there's an abandoned house near this as well that they think might have been used as a staging area. Had you heard anything about that? Wow and I thought my hypotheticals just hypothetically speaking that somebody else was involved was a reach. I see that as a huge reach. I had you heard of a band I hadn't heard of a band in the house before. I've heard so much now about this neighbor house. I know all this and these poor neighbors that just moved out which they would have planned well in advance they have to. So that's what it was neighbors that moved out. Well that's the only house I know about and that they weren't in anymore. I've heard a lot about that so maybe somebody's extra. I must have been now when they're

39:44talking about. Why would you be using a house in the neighborhood for stage? I mean that close to their actual like why does it even make any sense? It gives these people a lot of credit for being smart to remember all these people are morons. I was assuming it's like a die hard operation. I mean it's just yeah I mean there's there's just so many pieces to this case. If this were let's go down the road because there's a lot of folks I know that it's got their theory on what happened here. But one of the big ones still is that this was a kidnapping that went wrong. Okay let's say it was a kidnapping that went wrong and if you're in a kidnap assuming for money there's got to be a purpose for it not just to have the company of Nancy Guthrie with you until she dies. If this was a kidnapping for money it's been on the money's been on the table whether she's alive or dead for this whole thing. So if this was in fact that and it went wrong and she's dead why didn't anybody come in to get not the reward but to get the

40:50ransom to get the body you know or did somebody calculate them and go just to rescue they could catch us in some way trying to make this transaction and I'm not going to go there but wouldn't they be the same calculated risk if she even was alive and you're going to try make some sort of transaction it seems to be the same level of risk either way unless they just had a change of heart once they realized that they got her and she died. I'm glad you asked this question. I think I have a very simple answer yeah no proof of life there was no proof of life but they said they give the money even if she was dead. Well that was well after I think whatever their decisions were made to abort abort abort okay yeah that came on day oh my gosh way down the line now like day five or something like that uh where they said that and I think that's why they're still saying that I mean that's still their position but or did they get or did these people get rid of the body

41:50and there's no body they give back. That's point they aborted they were aborted in Mexico or some other place it would be so easy to put her in that trunk and drive to Mexico yeah as long as they're citizens and then they could give I mean that's it that's what I would have done it's kind of a long time an hour or so to have to have a body in your trunk the power of the night just roll through never to be seen again now is it more statistically likely she's very close in that proximity yes yeah now I mean yeah I mean bodies and trunks can last a long time before somebody sniffs them and says hey there's something up here look at the look at the David case I was just thinking exactly that David yeah yeah your thoughts in the comments section on sub-stack in YouTube we'd love for you to weigh in and give us your thoughts want more on this case and others then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Briewski and the Hidden

42:55Killer's podcast Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing victory Lane yeah it's even better with Chamba by my side race to chamba casino dot com let's chamba no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law ctnc's 21 plus sponsored by chamba casino dog grooming genius here most people see a busy dog salon but I see operational excellence thanks to genius from global payments scheduling personalized checkouts instant absolutely genius from game day crowds to every groomer in this shop genius keeps everything flowing seamlessly schnauser style flawless execution big league reliability for any business that's genius hello it is Ryan and we could all use an extra bright spot in our day couldn't we just to make up for things like sitting in traffic doing the dishes counting your steps you know all the mundane stuff that is why I'm such a big fan of chamba casino chamba casino has all your favorite social casino style games you can play for free

43:59anytime anywhere with daily bonuses so sign up now at chamba casino dot com that's chamba casino dot com no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply with verbals last minute deals you can save over $50 on your spring getaway so whether it's a mountain escape with friends a family week at the beach or sightseeing in a new city there's still time to get great discounts book your next day now average saving $72 select homes only tolerated care from 2311 racing victory lane yeah it's even better with chamba by my side race to chamba casino dot com let's chamba no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law ctnc's 21 plus sponsored by chamba casino what time is it chamba time chamba casino dot com is the

45:01online social casino with over 100 free games play anytime anywhere for your chance to redeem some serious prizes no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply tolerated care from 2311 racing victory lane yeah it's even better with chamba by my side race to chamba casino dot com let's chamba no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law ctnc's 21 plus sponsored by chamba casino it is ryan c crest here there was a recent social media trend which consisted of flying on a plane with no music no movies no entertainment but a better trend would be going to chamba casino dot com it's like having a mini social casino in your pocket chamba casino has over a hundred online casino style games all absolutely free it's the most fun you can have online and on a plane so grab your free welcome bonus now at chamba casino dot com sponsored by chamba casino no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply hello it is ryan and i was on a flight the other day playing one of my favorite

46:02social spin slot games on chamba casino dot com i looked over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing they were also playing chamba casino everybody's loving having fun with it chamba casinos home the hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free anytime anywhere so sign up now at chamba casino dot com to claim your free welcome bonus at chamba casino dot com and live the chamba life sponsored by chamba casino no purchase necessary VTW group voidware prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply it's tax season and by now we're all a bit tired of numbers but here's an important one you need to hear 16 billion dollars that's how much money and refunds the IRS flanked for possible identity fraud but it's not all grim news life lock monitors millions of data points per second and alerts you to threats you could easily miss on your own if your identity is stolen they'll fix it guaranteed save up to 40 percent your first year visit life lock dot com slash i heart terms apply here's the truth you could literally

47:03be adored by everyone and then come home and still get completely ignored by your own cat it's classic cat behavior but new sheba premium puree is a lickable treat that changes all that their protein rich made with bone broth and have the smooth creamy texture cats go crazy for especially when it's hand fed yeah it's more than a treat it's a fast pass to favorite human status so feed your cat sheba and go from totally ignored to truly adored in just 12 days guaranteed or your money back learn more at sheba dot com