JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

0:00The Joe Rogan Experience. Showing my day, Joe Rogan podcasted my night all day. Well, anyway, thanks for coming down there, man. Appreciate it. And congratulations on that standout performance against your female. Because that was a giant wake-up call for the entirety of boxing. The level that you're on was at so high that you could be in there with a world champion, a world champion, and make him like, a guy who beat, I mean, legit guys, including Loma Chanko. Yeah. That was a big victory for him. And you made him look like you had no business in there. Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and God-given ability. God-given ability. I think you have all that plus intelligence plus you start a real young.

1:01And there's something about those dudes who start real young. You grow up with that. It's like in your central nervous system as you're a young child. Yeah. I mean, would you start boxing like five? I started boxing at five, but honestly, you could say the same for two, because he kind of started at like seven. Yeah. We both was kind of similar in like experience, but I just felt like with me, the God-given ability of my instincts always kick in. When we fought, I felt like my brain just knew how to win. Like, everything was just like my instincts kicked in, and everything just took over. I didn't even. It felt like a out of body experience. Well, you're a very tactical guy. You know, one of the things I love about watching you fight is I love watching a guy who sets traps and who avoids damage. And you are one of the absolute very best ever at setting traps

2:01and avoid damage. You take so few punches in your fights. Yeah. It was at one fight where you decided, recent fight, we decided to stand with that dude. Who is that? Zipeta. That's right. Zipeta is a tough guy, man. But you fought that in a different way. Did you do that on purpose? It was partly on purpose and partly to get his respect. Because I really didn't have a choice but to get his respect. Because if I try to outbox him and move around a ring, I probably would have made the fight harder than it had to be. So I knew like, I got it like, make him respect me early. And that's what I kind of like. You started the fight. Hot. Why would it make it harder than it had to be if you box him? Because sometimes when you like a guy, like if you watch today's boxing, judges give the fight to mostly the guys that's coming forward. So if I don't win in there and bagging up and moving around a ring while he was more active, it probably would have looked as though he's winning the fight.

3:01So I had to make sure like the judges know who's winning. So I kind of had to take some in order to give some in that fight. It was a very unusual fight for you. I saw an interview with you after that fight. We were like, I'm not fighting like that again. Fuck that. Yeah, because I know like, I see like the monitor, like the old school boxes and like the punishment that they take in and you'll see them today, they can't really talk as well as like, like the Andre Wars and the Floyd, maybe whether who can talk good and still articulate things to the grand children, to the children. For me personally, it's like I want to make sure that I'm able to really speak well to my kids and my grandkids and all of that. So taking punishment for me. Yeah. I support that 100% and I applaud fighters like you for setting an example

4:01for young fighters coming up. Like defense and tactics and understanding the game is the most important thing. These guys that want to put on an entertaining fight and just go in there and slug it out. Like, man, you are giving up your brain for some people who don't give a fuck about you. Not you, oh my god. That's the guys on the shoot right there. I'd be seeing a lot of fighters nowadays where they stand there like punching bags and let people hit on them. You'll see them at the fight. They marked up. In a few years, I don't think that they're going to be able to speak as well as like somewhere like me, so. No, there's a bunch of examples of that. Obviously, we could all say it. But you know, it's a complicated sport and for people that don't understand the sport and don't appreciate the sport, they just see two dudes punching each other. But they don't see subtle movements and you were doing this like half-out jab and then popping them with it. And you could tell he had no idea it was coming. It was so frustrating for T of Fimo.

5:03It was watching. I was like, there was a bunch of times where I was watching. I just was yelling out by myself in my house going, whoa, that check right hook. Oh, it was so pretty, man. You hit him with some pretty shot. But it was just you were just tuning him up. It was a beautiful performance, man, because it was everything that I love in boxing. Skill movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening. And every time he would get fired up and try and take it to you, the most he could do is touch your body. Yeah, it's all he was able to do. Honestly, for me personally, I feel like I'm the best fighter in boxing. And I don't mean this in an old disrespectful way because I got a lot of fighters in boxing that I still watch to this day that I like. And I'm like, okay, they... I'm still this. I'm asick, I love asick. I love asick, I love before. I love them on Eastern European styles. But for me, I just feel like I'm a fighter that could do it all.

6:05I can do it all. Whatever needs to be done to get the job done, I can do that. So some nights in my seat, I might outbox people. Then some nights, I might stand there and be the guy up and beat them at their own games. So I think for me, I'm the most complete fighter in boxing. Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've dominated divisions. So if you've dominated divisions and you're still looking to achieve a higher level, you can't just look at the guys that are your competitors. Because at 135, it was so hard for you to get fights. At 140 now, what are you going to do? You just do that to Tfemo? I scared a lot of people. No, no one's looking stupid. I mean, Tfemo's had some good fights in the past and he's lost in the past, but he's never looked out of place. And he looked out of place in that fight. It's crazy though, because when I've seen him, when he fought in New York on his own time square card, I'm like, man, this dude is nice.

7:05I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa. I couldn't believe how good he was. But it kind of just made me get up. I'm like, okay, I want to see what he can do with me. Because the way he made Arnold Barbosa look in New York was like, he just made him look like he's not on his level. Well, he wasn't on his level, but then Tfemo's not on your level. I mean, this is the beautiful thing about competitive sports, especially boxing, this one-on-one, which I think is the purest form of competition, boxing in MMA, is that you can show that as great as a fighter is, like, people could watch the Tfemo fight and have no idea how good he is. And I would say, go watch the Barbosa fight, go watch the Loma Chancel fight, go watch many of his fights, that guy was an excellent fighter. He still is an excellent fighter, but there are levels. And the mindset that you have, I am the best fighter in the world. Period is what allows you to beat guys like that. That in the hard work.

8:05For sure. Like I said, I'm God-given and I work super hard. I think the biggest thing that I don't get credit for is my discipline. Like, I feel like I'm very disciplined when it comes down to making the sacrifices and making the life changes that I need to make in order to be 100% on fight night. And I feel like a lot of people don't give me. I mean, they don't know. They don't know. They just see it. You know, I'd be seeing fans tweet, and they'd be like, oh, get off Twitter or get on social media. But I'll be on social media right at that. I just love the gym. What's the problem, right? I'm just talking about talking social media right now. Let me live. Well, people are always looking to criticize. But there's no way you can have the kind of performances that you're having. And not be locked in. And not be locked in. It's not possible, especially over 12 rounds. Because you mean you know better than anybody alive, that the kind of discipline that it takes to be in the kind of condition that you have to be in,

9:05to fight 12 hard rounds, they put on a virtue woe-so performance. So it's like, it's crazy though. Everybody, like, y'all love their performance because y'all got to see it that day. For me, when I'm in the gym, it's still levels that I feel like I haven't got to shone to the world. I kind of only really shone like 70% of what I really could do. And I feel like with that performance, it was just like, okay, this is like an okay day in the gym. Like an okay day. And ain't like my best day in the gym. Like I have like days in the gym where I'm like, woo. I don't know how I just did that, but I'm just like on point. So it was a good day though. The thing is, you're getting better. Yeah, for sure. You know, that's the thing. It's like those days that you have in the gym and this performance. And the mindset that you have, like it's still not saying I did it all, not saying, okay, virtue woe-so performance,

10:05still only 70% of what you're capable of. That's what takes a guy from being a very good fighter to being an all-time great. Yeah. And it's a matter of maintaining that over years and years and years. That is so difficult for people. Yeah. And discipline is where that comes in. Yeah. Enthusiasm and motivation is great in the beginning. Yeah. A lot of people have enthusiasm and motivation in the beginning, but it's way that champ for five years, six years. Yeah. You know, the grind of it all, the 12 week training camp away from your family. People don't think about that. Yeah, that's why I'm kind of glad that I got the all of the things that happened in my career, where I had a little trials and tribulations happened early. So when I had my hand problem and I had like a fight where I didn't perform as well as I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared for like now. And that was like, I'm 100% on top of my game. Like you're not going to be able to like beat me without me being like fully prepared.

11:11Like you're going to have to be a bad dude to come into ring and beat me like, because I just don't see it happening with none of these guys. Well, it's like how far you've gone, right? Like you started off at five and been intensely focused for all these years. How old are you now? 28. 28, which is prime. Yeah. So that's it. Like 28 to like 34 is the best year. But then again, you look at Terrence. I mean, he's at an age where a lot of people say it's over. And he put on the performance of his career against Canelo. I don't know how he do it. He's like a different human being. He's so smart. If I'm honest, he is like the reason. I'm not going to say he the reason why I am who I am today. But he bought my game from like where was that to like a very high level. He don't even realize like he done that. Like me just being in the gym able to watch him and pick up on like the little things that he doing.

12:13His bad days, his good days, his, I'm seeing everything. And like when he come out there on fight night, how prepared and how ready, how confident. Like honestly, that dude kind of, he put me into a whole different world to now to where I'm like, I can't, I can meet anybody. I get in there with Terrence Crawford and if I could spar with him, I can, how you going to hurt me? How you going, how you going to beat me? Like, I'm in a ring with the best fighter in the world. Like one of the best of all time. Yeah, one of the best of all. And one of the most versatile of all time. Yes. Because that's a guy who switches up left, right? There's nothing he can't do in a boxery. Nothing. Nothing he can't do. And the way he sets people up, we were talking during the podcast I did with him. He did this one sneaky thing where he was throwing a straight left and then Canelo would go to counter and he would hook it right off of the punch. Like on the extension, Canelo would lean back to him and pop.

13:15And catch him on the chin. You can see it's like, oh my god, that's pretty. I'd never seen him throw that punch until Canelo though. That's the crazy part. Being in the gym with another guy who's an all-time great pound for pound, pound for pound best. That is so valuable. And so many guys don't like that because they don't want to be the second best. Or they don't want to be in there with someone who's as good as them. You know what I mean? Like iron sharpens iron. For sure. And for you to be a young guy who have a guy's in terraces with 10 years older than you. Yeah. Have a guy who's further down the path and be able to see him and absorb all that. That's better than any coach of the world. Yeah, but it's been going on for years. Like, it ain't like just a new thing. People don't understand, like, when I was 19 years old, I was around Terrence. I was at his house playing home in 2K. We're going to the gym. I argue, like, he really wanted the most competitive persons I ever met in my entire life.

14:19You have to be. I just never, like, for me, I just know for a fact my game has up because of that dude. Yeah. It has to. It has. It's also you're seeing this level that is so high in boxing. Like, you can compare it. You can go back and look at Sugar Ray Leonard. You can look at Perna Whitaker. You look at all these guys. And you can compare Terrence to the people that the pundits sit down and say all time greats. Terrence is unquestionably in all time great. He might even be better than him. He might be. He might be. I do respect to the ledges. I agree with you. He is that good. I feel like there's a thing that was happening before the Canelo fight where a lot of people were sort of dismissing his previous opponents and saying he never beat anybody and Canelo's another level. I know a lot of people bet a lot of money on Canelo. I was like, that's not a good bet. Yeah. It seemed like that's the thing in boxing to us. If they don't know the opponents, if you're not fighting somebody that's like a bigger name,

15:23they make it seem like the opponents is not good. Exactly. That's like not true. Because at the end of the day, it's low level opponents that don't get the type of shine that the high level opponents get, but they will beat the high level opponent. And are they really high level opponents at this point? Right. I know. Right. Well, there's hot, there's high level and then there's the elite of the elite. Right. Yeah, for sure. There's like some guys that if they're in, like I always said that about Roy Jones during his prime. Like everybody said, Roy Jones didn't find anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made everybody look like they weren't anybody because he was that he was so elite. Yeah. And that's kind of the problem that Terrence was facing up until the Canelo fight because when a guy goes up, two way classes all the way up to 60, right? I mean, starts his career at 35. He's crazy. He fights at 68 and then puts on a virtueoso performance, virtual shutout, maybe Canelo won

16:28one round. Yeah. You know what I mean? Then everybody has to shut the fuck up. Yeah, he shut everybody up because you had to see like he used to say that he wouldn't fight Canelo. Like he used to be like, oh, Canelo's so big, I wouldn't fight him. Then like it's like out of nowhere, he had to change him on, then like he just went and attacked the situation. It was a bad situation to be in like you're going to go fight somebody two way classes higher and punch hard. Yeah. Bigger than you. You're going to go do that. So for me, he's just doing this amazing. He's amazing. And another amazing example for young fighters, you know, incredibly disciplined, never out of shape and has all those faculties doesn't do anything. Those faculties intact and he's leaving the game with 100% no undefeated record, no questions asked, fought everybody. There's no one lining up to fight him right now. He's older and he did it all and he came out unscathed.

17:29Bye-bye. That's my biggest goal. It's a perfect goal. My biggest goal is to leave boxing and when I leave boxing, be good enough, well, not good enough, great enough financially to where I don't ever have to get back into boxing ring. Like, I don't want to be one of them fighters that's like, need boxing, like I hate that. That's my biggest payee. Like, long as I'm having fun with boxing, I want to be doing it. But once it's not fun no more, I don't want to have to like, oh, we got this $20 million payday. I need it. And I don't want to feel that way. So like Floyd, like the situation of Floyd's in right now. This is crazy. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine right now and he's like, why is Floyd fighting again? I go because he needs money. He was like, what? How? Floyd made more money than anybody ever. It's like, yeah, but he spent more money than everybody ever. Yeah, I try to stay out of that because I don't know like the real situation with Floyd

18:30because I'm not really in tone on it, but I only think with Floyd, that's kind of weird to me is like, he loved boxing so much. Like, you got to actually be around him like, he wanted to be in the gym. He wanted like, so it'd be hard for me to just believe like, okay, he's just dead broke. Like, I don't know. It's hard to believe that. Well, if he's not dead broke, he's definitely got issues. Yeah. Right? So he's got a bunch of lawsuits where he owes money. You know, Logan Paul says he owes a money. He owes money for some other things. I don't know. I don't know. But it's also it's like, I like a guy like Andre Ward, I like a guy who goes out on top and, you know, they offered Andre a ton of money to come back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat Kovalev. Yeah. And he was like, you know what, I think I served boxing better as a commentator and a spokesperson for the sport. I made plenty of money. I'm undefeated. Two division world champion, Olympic gold medalist, bye bye.

19:30That's it. All faculties intact. No worries about his brain health and everything like that. That's the way to go out. Andre Ward is another dude who helped my career. Yeah. He helped my career a lot too. If I had to, if I need something, right, let's say I need something then, I need to figure out how to do it or what to do in a situation with, wait, or whatever it is when it comes to boxing. If I'm calling Andre Ward, he's going to give you the best explanation. Like, out of all the guys, like he explains things from detail, like, he's going to detail in it and make me really understand what I got to do, like, um, Andre Ward is somebody who I looked up to since a kid, so he had another guy. I just wasn't around him enough in a gym as I wasn't around, but like Andre Ward, my favorite fighter as an amateur, like, I can't really. A really? Well, most people don't know that Andre Ward fought most of his career with one arm, which

20:30is crazy. That one arm is his best arm. He's left handed for us, but it's still crazy. It is. It's still crazy. Think about all the guys he beat and he beat them with a left hand. Yeah. And then finally got shoulder surgery and then how to right hand and still still kind of fucked up. It's not 100%. You know, the misconception about his career, I feel like when he beat Kovalev, people don't realize how good Kovalev was. Oh, he was good in the day. Like he was insanely like, fucking dangerous. Power, boxing, length. He had everything. A great jab, a great right hand. Yeah. And for Andre Ward to go beat that dude, that put the stamp on like his career. And got dropped. Yes. Got dropped in the hurt and recovered and still won. Yeah. I mean, that was big. Yeah. Kovalev, people see Kovalev when he lost a canelo. He was already kind of washed. Yeah. He was already washed. He was drinking a lot.

21:30Yeah. There was a lot of, you know, a lot of these fighters, they get to, like we're saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus. It's hard to do. Yeah. But if you go back when he had it, man, when he was in his prime and he was a world champion, he was fucking everybody up, man. He was killer. And he was scary. Yeah. He was a killer. Scary right hand. Woof. Yeah. He was a pistol. I'll go back and watch him too. He another guy that I'll go back and watch. Yeah. I like the way he keeps his distance. The Eastern European, like, those guys are really good boxes. Like when I watch them, I'm like, okay, like, I love watching before. He falls amazing. I love it. He's got such an amazing style. I mean, him, uh, Usik, Loma Chenko's kind of a cat, that's a fight I really wish would have happened between you and him, man. Was there ever talk about that? I miss myself up. I kind of did this to myself, so I understand, um, why a lot of fighters wouldn't fight me. A lot of fighters wouldn't fight me because I sparred them.

22:33Oh. And I miss myself up like I, when I was trying to spar at that time, I never thought it would be a day of me at home fighting like I didn't think that far down the line. I really was just thinking he was the best fighter in boxing, number one pound for pound. I want to be able to go get in the ring with him and see what like, right, how I can do. Like they told me they wasn't even going to pay me for the sparring. I'm like, okay, I'm cool. I don't want to get paid. I'm just here to get in the ring with let me chanko, but, um, years later, yeah, the fight. How'd that go? How'd the sparring went? I think, um, see, I don't, I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I can't say that we're not to diss them. I'll keep it real with the sparring. I felt like I was out boxing him, but I also knew the level he was on was like his conditioning, and that's when I, it made me like, okay, I got to be in like tip top conditioning because the first day we spar, we did six rounds.

23:35I felt like it was like, okay, I got boxing. The next time we spar, he made me do 12 straight real, so he made me do 12 straight. For the first eight, I'm good, like I'm, I'm good for eight, but like the last four rounds I want to say, he started like picking up the pace and he didn't get off on me, but he got the better of the last four rounds, I was, and you feel like it was because of fatigue a little bit? Yeah, it was for sure because of fatigue, but it wasn't like the skills, like skillfully I felt like I was the better fighter, like I felt like my range and my distance and my speed was kind of better than his, but like from a standpoint of being in shape and throwing more punches, I felt like he was kind of, but he was getting ready for his fight, I was getting ready for my fight too, so. Well, that's a very valuable learning experience, right? Yeah. You mean better to learn it than, than to learn it in a fight? Yeah, but for a for a, it messed me up because now it's like, if I'm a little bit chanko

24:41and I know, he was what, 126 pounds at the time, he was a kid, now I've seen him all grown up, he bigger, stronger, and I've seen what he was doing as a kid, I'd probably be like, why would I test the water with him, like I wouldn't really want to see that guy, that's not the guy I would want to see, so. That's funny. So you think that those sparring matches were the reason why you never got to fight with him? Yeah, for sure. I was surprised to, for me, honestly, I was very surprised. Did you spar him as well? Yeah. Yeah. I only did three rounds, but he made it seem like he kind of got off on me, but honestly, I felt like I was the better fighter. Well, Tiel's a very headstrong guy. Yeah. Very, very tough, very confident guy. I mean, look, when he beat Loma Chanko, that was a standout performance. He had that piston jab, man. Oh, he was sharp. He was sharp now. I was in times before my fight.

25:41Well, I just think he knew that Loma Chanko was a ghost who's so hard to hit and his head. He came out explosive. Yeah. I just think Loma Chanko had a speed to like get his respect, like I feel like Tiel was kind of faster and he knew like from a speed standpoint, he was going to use it to his advantage. Also, Tiel was a lot bigger and he was dangerous. Like, he was throwing danger with every punch, even that jab had danger behind it. It was crazy. I feel like he was strong when I was fighting him. Oh, he was strong as fuck. I already think that he wasn't, but I'm like, man, I ain't got a lot of it with some shots. Like, I will catch on the glove and I'll be like, I don't know what you're doing to your training, bro, but don't kind of solid. Well, look at the size of that motherfucker. I mean, he's jacked. Yeah. He looks great. He's ripped. Yeah. He's just, but you know, he's not done. And a fight like that with you is a wake up call for a guy like him, too. It was like, man, I gotta tighten some shit. It was 50, 50 because sometimes they can play with your mental.

26:45So some guys don't be the same at the getting embarrassed in front of the world like that. Well, he's come back before, like the Cumbosus fight. Cumbosus dropped him early and that was a, that was a crazy upset, but it was different. Because in this instance, he got really embarrassed with Cumbosus, it was like it was a 50, 50. He felt like he won the fight. He left, feeling that way. He'll get in dropped by Cumbosus. Nobody saw that coming. No, I didn't see that coming either. I ain't lying for sure. I think it was like second round, too, right? It was a first round, but he was fighting dumb. I never seen Tio even fight like that either. He went in there, like just trying to not come out from the first round. I think after the Loma Chenko fight, he felt like this dude is not on my level. I'm the best fighter in the world. You know, that can fuck with your head, too, overconfidence can fuck with your head. Yeah. I'll be trying to like, I'll be trying to like stay away from that, like, because I'm very like confident in myself, so I'd be scared of being too confident, so I'd be

27:45trying to like make guys bigger in my brain, like, oh, this guy's, he's the truth. So that's smart. Yeah. I got to like, I don't have no choice, because I'm very confident. We've all seen fighters that go in unprepared and think that a fighter is not on their level, and then that guy puts a- Knock him out. Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson, perfect example. 42 to one underdog. And it was a perfect storm because Buster's mom just died. And Buster was always one of those guys that was known to be super talented in the gym, super talented, but not dedicated, just not driven, just didn't- didn't make the most of his talent before that one fight. He was like, I'm fighting Mike Tyson, I'm not scared of him, my mom is dead, I'm putting in the fucking work, and he came out throwing that jab with the hook off the jab. And it was a totally different Buster Douglas, like the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen ever. That final combination when he knocked Mike Tyson out, dude, I didn't even watch that fight

28:48live. A friend of mine told me about it, I was like, are you fucking serious? He told me at the gas station. He's like, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson, I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then I went home and watched it, and even while I knew that Buster Douglas had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up and kill him. I was like, I can't believe this is happening for sure. That's how much of an upset that was. Yeah, that was definitely one of the biggest upsets I've said, I think, I don't know because I wasn't during that time, but from what I've seen, it just looked like Mike didn't expect Tom to be that good, like it was a shocker. I think it was a shocker for everybody. Well that's boxing, that's what could happen in this world, I don't see that happen, plenty of times. Honestly, it'd be some guys that I see in a gym that I'm like, bro, if you do that stuff on fight night, bro, you'd probably be champion of the world. I guess a lot of gym fighters who really got talented, but when on bright lights come

29:50on, a lot of fighters be kind of different, and what do you think that is? I think it's pressure, I think it's nerves, I think it's like, it's a lot, it's a lot of fighters. Because I know I felt it, like I felt it from my fight with on till, I felt pressure, I felt all of that kind of stuff, but I'm too tough, like I know my mental ain't gone. It's me and that person at the end of the day, my life for your life, and I'm gonna choose my life when they come down to it, so I was good, but I know it's a lot of fighters that I see in the gym, and I'm like, man, I don't understand how you don't perform like this on under the lights. There's always guys like that, there's always guys that are potential world champions in the gym, and some people bank on them, and some, you know, you go, this guy just needs a mental coach, needs something to get him over that hump, but it's always interesting to me, because what is the difference between a guy who could just walk out there on fight that day and perform at 100% of his ability versus a guy who gets dwarfed by the moment?

30:56The moment comes, the big pressure, yeah. It's all mental, it's all in your head. What you're thinking and what you're believing and the things that's going on in your brain is what's going to come out, like I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself it's either me or whom, so my life for your life and one of us got to go, one of us got to go. But what do you think is going on in the, I mean, everybody experiences pressure, everybody experiences nerves, but what is it about fighters that are so talented, that let that overcome them versus fighters, oftentimes they're maybe not even as talented, but they rise to the occasion when those lights are on. When those lights are on, there are fighters that fight better, like sometimes they look shit in the gym, and then when those bright lights are on, I don't have moments like that. I don't have moments where I'm like, man, I feel bad in the gym, I don't know what I had this camp, this was a horrible camp, and then the fight night coming, I'm like, on point.

31:57Well, you know, that's what they said about Ali when he fought George Foreman. Yeah. They said he looked terrible in the gym and everybody's nervous about him, but he had a strategy. I think with like some fighters this fear, like I think it's fear of like losing a fear of the negative happening, and I think with some fighters, they allow fear to control them. Yeah. As in some other fighters who, if I get fear for whom, going to attack my fears, like I'm not scared to even go and give it a try, whatever happened is going to happen at the end of the day. It's already, already so. Is this something that you built up over time? Is this something someone imparted on you when you were young and you embraced it? Like, how did you learn to have that champion mindset? I think this is wild to say, but I think it's really my little brothers and my little sisters, but really my little brothers. I used to go to amateur tournaments, and if I lose, and I got to come on to my little brothers, oh, they own me, they own me, and it's like you got to come home and they remember

33:04the name of the opponent that beat you when they were throwing in your face. Oh, don't make me go get Joseph Radorno. That's it. That's a real guy that beat me back in the day. Shout out to Joseph Radorno, but I used to have to head out in the house and now I still be with them. So it's like, I know I got to go home to my little brothers and see them after these fights. And I had that in the back of my head. I'm not. I'm not coming home to them. That's crazy. Without the win. Like, they got his no leg. Did you tell your little brothers that they do that for you? No, they, I don't even think I ever said it to them. It just was so natural because I used to always get in fights with them and they used to always bring up a opponent that beat me, and I'm like, now they, now if I beat everybody, they can't say it over. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Well, because different fighters develop, you know, different ways of rising to the occasion, different ways of maintaining a championship's mindset.

34:05And some of them, they learn from their coach, you know, customado, famously trained Tyson and even hypnotized him and told him that you don't exist, only the task exists. And he had Mike Tyson just like a fucking machine when he would get into that ring. I think, um, shout out to my grandfather too, because my grandfather is my coach and like his energy during fight week, like it, they don't even realize like it wasn't even just the coaching that he was doing. It's like the energy that he kind of gave off to me, it reminded me of me when like, I was a kid and me and home would go to amateur tournaments and like, he just sold like amped up and like ready and like, it kind of brought on to me and it kind of got me like amped up as him like, okay, I got a, I got a standoff business for my grandfather. I got to, I'm going to a choice. Oh, wow. That's awesome. But he is definitely a great coach. So family is a big thing for you. Yeah, family is everything for me. Like I enjoy spending time with my family like, I'm not like a lot of these boxers, like

35:11with all due respect to them. They like the fame, all that kind of stuff, the cars, the, I'm more so like, I get a big check. I want to go on vacay with my family or go chill with my family and I don't like doing stuff. Like I enjoy spending time with my daughter. That's great. Like I'm different. I'm not like them guys. That's so smart. It's so smart because all that other shit just drains your bank account, distracts you from your goals, gets in the way of things. It's like when I was a kid, I used to want the fame. I used to be like, I want to be famous, I want everybody to know me, but it's like once you get it, it's like, I don't like this. I don't like this. Like you go places, people pulling their phones out and like, it's weird. They try to record you like, bro, why are you, I'm just a regular person. That's how I feel like everybody bleeds.

36:12We all the same. We all human. Right. So I kind of move with that kind of door process and I feel like a lot of people don't move with that like, especially people in my position. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can get inflated. Your head can get screwy. It's like you got to balance two things at the same time. One, you are the elite of the elite. You are a world champion and one of the pound for pound best to ever do it. And then on top of that, you're just a human being. Yes. And we're all just human beings. But what we like, what people love about watching, championship, caliber fighters and championship performances in any sport is watching just a regular human do something extraordinary. And that gives us inspiration, like when I watch a great fight, I feel better for the rest of the day. Yeah. Like when I go to bed, I feel great. Yeah. Like I watched that fight. I went to bed. I was like, whoa. I felt great. I text Josh right after, right after it was like, right after it was happening. And that's how we got in touch. Josh Dupin shout out to Josh, but I remember I texted him.

37:15I might do that was extraordinary. And then next thing you don't wear on the phone. Definitely was a great night, great night of boxing. I enjoyed it. I'm just glad to be like all glory to God. I'm glad to be here. I've been here. I got been here. I've been telling people like, I'm the best. I'm better than these guys. You have, but you needed that breakout. You needed that breakout performance. And the problem is, everybody knew you were so good. It was hard to get someone to sign up for that breakout performance. Because for a breakout performance, you need another dude who's had breakout performances that everybody respects and knows. Like to your female. Yeah, that's right. That was my main reason in fighting. I'm telling you, I watched them in town square. I looked, I said, we fight him. We fight him. I want to fight him. He looked really good. He looked really good. The time square card was weird. He was the best fight on the card. 100%. No question. It looked like everybody was playing at safe on that card. Yeah, it did.

38:16It did. Like Devon Haney. The Devon Haney fight was odd. What I learned from that card, I felt like, I felt like don't fighters didn't have enough adrenaline pumping. Like I feel like Ryan, I know when he got into ring, his adrenaline couldn't have been like too hard because it was like sparring. Like it was like not a lot of people there. It wasn't like that much pressure. You could hear everything. Somebody is saying, I know Ryan heard me all night. Like he had to hear me. I was cheering him on. Like telling him, like man, throw the hook, throw the hook, throw the hook. But. That was when he fought Rollie, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was a wake up call too. Like that was another fight where people did not expect Rollie to beat Ryan. Yeah. I'd be throwing off. I didn't expect it either. That was when one of the fights where I kind of like vouch for Ryan. I'm like man, he got skills. He was a skillful fighter, then he got in there and I don't know what he was doing. Like I didn't understand what was happening. You know, it's one of them things where he has the fight with Devon.

39:19He beats Devon, gets popped, you know, for whatever he was on, Austrian. And then there's like, he's got a long time off, there's a lot of people mad at him. There's a lot of people, you know, which is such an unfortunate thing if you think about his performance against Devon because that was incredible. Yeah, but the problem is he got caught. He got caught. Yeah. So like, I don't know like for me personally, if you got caught it is like, I can't really me. I can't give you the credit for that. Right. I don't give him credit for that day with Devon. Yeah, but steroids don't help you land punches. I get you. They help you recover and training. They help you train a little harder. They might give you a little bit more power, but that left hook was on point. Yeah, but that little bit of more power probably wasn't enough to hurt Devon because if you really watched the fight and pay attention to the fight and people might not agree with me on this, but I feel like Devon was winning the moments that was quiet.

40:25Like when people was not really, Devon is winning most of the like boxing match other, but the moments where Ryan was so loud and like, everybody got to see him get hurt and knock down to where like, I just feel like Devon, if he didn't get dropped by the punches, he could have won that fight. But he did get dropped. That's the problem. And also, I think the asterine was helping his power. Yeah. I mean, was his last fight against Delgado? Who was his last opponent? Who? Ryan. Who's the guy? Mario. That's right. Yeah, Mario. That's right. Yeah, Mario. Mario is a guy that was like tailor made for a guy like Ryan. Like he's a tough dude. He's very durable. Takes a good shot, but he's not that fast today. And Ryan was super fast in that fight. Yeah. Look like he looked real good. Yeah, he looked real good. He looked good. He looked real good in that fight. And it wasn't just like, because people think when I'm saying like, oh, well, you don't

41:29know whether he cheated or not, I'm not saying that in the aspect of his boxing skills. He clearly got boxing skills. You can clearly see Ryan know how to move his feet, you know how to keep his distance. You have long length. He can clearly box. I've been saying this for years. So. Yeah, he box is very well. And also, he showed that he has a right hand too. Yeah, that was surprising. Yeah. And he used it like the whole night, like he just kept throwing it. So that was very surprising. But I mean, of course, if you want to be a complete fighter, he had to develop a right hand and start using it more because that left hook is just world class. Yeah. And he was not only like throwing it straight. He was throwing it around the guard. That was kind of beautiful. Yeah, it was nice. That was a beautiful performance for him. Has there been any talk about YouTube matching up? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like I said, everything got to make sense. Like people don't understand that I walk around in my forties. So if I'm walking around in my forties, I don't think like me going to 147, like when

42:34I fight at 147, I think that would be my last weight class. Like in my career, like I don't see myself going past 147 ever, but I'm 28 right now. I got a long way to go. So I don't plan on moving up 47, no time soon. So if the fight happens at whatever weight class that I say, then I'm cool with it. Can he make 40 again? He said he could. He don't want him to come out and say like, let's fight at 140. He said that. So if he said that is like, okay, you could make the way then let's do it. What way was the Javante fight? Was that 140? That fight was at 136. That's right. And then he gave him a re-hydration clause too. Yeah, 10 pounds. Very smart. Very smart. Very smart. Very smart, right? I mean, it was in that situation, but I mean, I just felt like with the re-hydration clause at that time, when you already bring somebody down to like a weight class that they have in full in years, it's like you could have not put the re-hydration clause.

43:39Like it wasn't necessary at that point in time. I think it wasn't necessary. I think it helped a lot. If you can only re-hydrate 10 pounds and you know he's way bigger than that, Ryan's a big guy. He looked weak on fight night. Like, he looked extremely weak. But I guess those dollars, that paycheck was just too tempting. Yeah, I never understood that move. I never understood it. Because if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a big name in a sport and all that kind of stuff, why would I accept everything into somebody else's favor? I think because that's the only way he could get the fight, you know? Well, this is the same thing when Canelo fought Floyd, right? Floyd made him go down to 152, remember? But it was no re-hydration clause. Oh, was it? Nope, it was it. Even if it's not. Floyd didn't have a re-hydration clause, nobody else. Well, that's good. But if you make a guy get down to 152, even if you give him a re-hydration clause, like that's kind of drain something out of your tank.

44:39But is it right? My question is, wasn't they fighting at 154? Wasn't Canelo fighting at 154? Normally. Yeah. But it was a strong balance. But though, you know that last, you're not a big way cutter, but if you were, the last two pounds is death. Oh, for sure. When you're already drained out, because he was a big guy for 154, and to drain out and get all the way down to 152, that had to be hard. He didn't look the same on fight day. You think so? Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso that night. I mean, Floyd. I don't think. Floyd looks so good that night. That night, I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was being Floyd. I think you're probably right. But I also think Floyd was smart to get him to down to 152. For sure. For sure, the business. Yeah, it's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good one. I do agree with you about the re-hydration clause, like get out of here with that. But we got to understand, too, right, because I get Floyd in that instinct.

45:40If a guy is going to blow up to, let's say, what, let's, let's, let's, let's just do me in Ryan Garcia, for example. Okay. I'm going to blow up like 148. He's going to blow up 168 to 170. Now, it's like you in a ring with somebody that is like 20 pounds bigger than you. And Floyd still allowed a canelo to get big, because he got big, got the, getting down to 152. So it's like, I kind of fill it in a way. Like I understand it. Now, the re-hydration clause is kind of crazy, but I will only do a re-hydration clause for fighters if I go up to 147 pounds, because I'm not a 147 pounder, so when I fight at their weight class, where they're comfortable, just make it easy for them, like I don't. Well, the thing about a fighter like you is it's just difficult to find big names. I mean, if Jervante fights again, that's a, that's a big fight if you, but that would

46:41probably be at 135, which you could probably still make easy, right? Easy. Yeah. No problem. So you have fights at 135, one fight and fights at 140, but it's just going to be hard to get someone to step up that is going to be that big pay-per-view selling fight. Yeah. That's the problem. That is the problem. You're too good. That's the problem. You're too good. I didn't tell you that before I went pro before, it was like, you're going to have a hard time in the pro's. I'm telling you. Yeah. But I understand it now. Do you remember your first pro fight? You remember what it felt like? It felt like a whole new experience. Really? Yeah. How so? I've been, when I was in the amateurs, God wasn't as like dirty as the professional was like, you don't get introduced into dirty boxing until you turn professional. Didn't you get headbutt in your first fight? I got headbutt. He headbutted me. And that's what kind of... On purpose, man. Not an accidental headbutt. That's what kind of make me say, okay, I understand.

47:42This is a whole different atmosphere. It's not the same amateur in the pro's, and a lot of God's from the amateurs don't adjust to the pro's as well as ideas, so. Hmm. Well, it's all about styles, right? Like, there's some guys who have styles that are just much better for a point fighting and fighting. No, it's actually... You got to develop a lot of things, like punch placement, like punching heart is really a real thing in the pro's, like, you got to have something to make somebody respect you. That's why when I hear people say, like, I got pillow hands, I'm like, yeah, I clearly must not be watching. Who's saying that? Maybe a lot of people. They say, I got pillow hands. No, you just fight smart. Yeah. I don't understand it, because it's like, if I had pillow hands, right, while guys don't just go in there and just knock me out, like, if I'm fighting somebody with pillow hands, I'm just gonna put my shield up and just swing for the fences, because they care me,

48:45like, I don't understand why nobody wanna do that if I got pillow hands. You don't have pillow hands. It's nonsense, talk. What you have is a boxing intelligence where you know when the hit full blast and when to just touch them up and crack them a little bit, and the accumulation of blows, the frustration, the mental confusion that a fighter gets when they can't hit you and you can hit them, and then you start ramping it up, and then you start tuning them up. I mean, the people that are saying that just don't understand what you're doing. Yeah, for sure. Well, you're doing is just perfect, you're fighting intelligent, and that's what I love. I love watching a guy just outbox the fuck out of somebody. I love it. Like I said, that you were doing this half speed jab and then from right there, and you could tell Tio was like, Jesus Christ, you could tell he was confused. It was so fast, it was so fast, but that accumulation of blows over time, and his corner,

49:46it was crazy. Did you listen to the fight? Did you go back and watch it? Yeah, I went back and watched it. His corner is like, you gotta hit him. It's so crazy though, because what I see with his corner is like, he'd been doing this, like his dad been getting the ring and giving him no type of instructions, but Tio has been always so good to where the instructions he giving them really does not matter because he's in control, he's winning these fights, he's doing what he's supposed to do, but that night he didn't need, he didn't need a real coach. Yeah, he needed something better than that. Yeah, well, not that his dad's not a real coach, but he needed some tactical advice, he needed some instruction on what this guy's doing to you, and you gotta switch it up entirely. You gotta do something that confuses him. His dad is used to something different, that's why he went in there and said, where's your power, bro? He's used to Tio's power showing up and the amazing things that Tio does in the Boxing

50:47Ring, he's used to that, but whenever you're going against somebody who's on a different level, also, you gotta be well prepared within a game plan, all that kind of stuff, and I didn't see no game plan. Did you know anybody that was his camp or asking anybody after the fight, what was his game plan? What did he think was going to be different? No, I didn't, actually, I just... I'd be interested to know that. Yeah, I do too, but I did run into him after the fight, I ran into Tio in the own back, so. Was it cool? Yeah, it was cool. It was a good conversation, I felt bad that he was by his self, his manager kind of cleaned it up, but during the moment that I seen him in the back, he was by his self, so I didn't like that. Oh, man. I didn't like that. No, that's a bummer. Yeah. But, I mean, they said they was with him all night, so respect to them. So maybe he just caught him in a moment when he was in that moment. Yeah, that's the last thing he wants to do to get a band in after a loss, like, oh my

51:47God. And then you gotta go back to camp with those assholes? I don't even like how the sport is kind of treating him now, like everybody acts like he's just this terrible fighter, but oh, that's crazy. I don't understand it when you got to give him respect, like this dude actually stepped up and fought a guy that nobody else wants to fight. So he did it. Exactly. He got in the ring and later on the line, it didn't go his way, but he did, he tried it. The thing is, I don't know if that guy is ever going to separate from his father. You know, I don't know if that guy ever is going to bring in another world class trainer that maybe would be able to recognize some things that he's doing that he can prove pawn. You know, it's so crazy. During the fight, he had a coach in his corner, and I know the coach, I don't, he's from Florida, I want to say, his coach was telling him some good advice. I don't think he heard him or was listening to him, but he was telling him some good advice. Really? Yeah. I can't say what the advice is because I got a future opponent, I got to make some good

52:47back and listen. Yeah. I can't tell what the advice was, but he was giving him some good advice. Interesting. Yeah, it's hard. Those father-son teams, there's always, there's a lot of conflict with those. Yeah, because I don't watch it over the years, I feel like that's like, stay on top of the fighter and they're like, they make it, they make it less fun. And I feel like, that's why I think my granddad is one of the best coaches, because he allowed me to love the sport of boxing myself, like when I had my football games and my pop won the games, he came to my game, watched them cheer, don't supported me, but as soon as I lost, I want to feel crying, I'm like, he comes up to me, he say, you know, in boxing, you only could lose because of yourself. And I'm looking, I'm like, what do you mean by, I'm like, oh, that is true, because like

53:53you're the one in a boxing ring doing the boxing, then when I lost that football game, he was basically trying to say it was my coach for it. So like, he just allowed me to choose boxing though, like he, he always supported me when I did other things, but he kind of like, he ain't just stay on top of me, like how am I with it? Like, he just took me to the gym and, well, you got to let a young man become his own man. Yeah, he allowed me to choose it. And I think fathers and the sport don't allow, they sons to choose it too, like they're choosing it for them. Right. And a lot of them are overbearing in the corner. It becomes a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And they kind of be coaches, she'll listen to what I'm about to say, the father coaches. There has to be a difference between a father and a coach. So when you're coaching your son, you have to be a coach in a boxing ring, instead of

54:54the father. Because when you're the father, they're going to reciprocate things wrong and I feel like what coaches, when you're coaching, they can hear you a lot better. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, there's also the relationship with the father and the son, where the father wants a son to listen to him, listen to me, I'm your father, you're going to do this, you know, fuck off of me. Yeah. Fuck off of me, dad. Are you doing more harm to your son than actually doing good for him? So. Well, especially not giving him technical advice. Yeah. Because there was a lot of shit you were doing that he just did not have an answer for him. He didn't understand. Yeah. He didn't clean up his bad habits and that's the thing with these fighters, a lot of them got bad habits and things that they do when I'm going to expose it. So. Well, I mean, the environment that you came up in and having a guy like Terrence and having other elite fighters that you train with all the time, that's so important. It's so invaluable because all that shit gets exposed in the gym because that's where

55:58you work on it. Yeah. That's where you work on it. If you ain't working on it in the gym on fight night, it's going to be exposed. There's no fans or butts about it. Yeah. How important do you think an amateur career is like, do you think a guy like Loma Chanko maybe would have been an even better boxer if he didn't have so many amateur fights and went into the pros at an earlier age? I think an amateur career is important because you got to have that experience. But I don't seem different to where like guys have developed a lot more in the gym. Like I don't seem guys staying in the gym, not go to tournaments and they'll get better and better and then I don't know where they're going to want tournament and then you'll be like, who the fuck is this guy? Where did he come from? How did he get so good? I think like developing in the gym is like the biggest thing, like who you spar in, who you training with, all of that stuff really matters the most.

56:58The amateur experience is cool, like, oh, Loma Chanko, but if Loma Chanko had different things around him in the gym, I feel like he probably would have been a better fighter. Well, it sounds so good. Well, Loma Chanko, it's so crazy because he really should have been fighting at 126. I mean, really it was never a 140 pound fighter. He's a small guy. Yeah, I don't understand that. I don't understand that because I think it kind of tarnished his career in a way to where like the way people look at him, we don't look at him the same as they should because he was really, really good, but he was at a weight class that he really wasn't supposed to be at. So of course, you're going to have like a harder time with the bigger guys. Right. Like Tio. Yeah. That was a pretty example. Tio was huge in that fight. He looked so much bigger than Loma Chanko and just so dangerous that it like fuck Loma Chanko strategy up because you know, you got missiles coming at you from a giant dude. I mean, Tio's stacked. Yeah. And so you got to think like for those guys, I guess it's just about chasing the multiple

58:02world titles and the bigger money at the higher weight classes. Yeah, that's what Loma Chanko though. He act like he wasn't really like super money hungry. So I never really understood. It seemed like he was maybe, yeah, you're right about that. He was chasing the undisputed. Yeah, undisputed in world titles. I feel like he got robbed in the Devon Haney fight though. Do you think that? To this day, yeah. I do think. Yeah. I scored the fight for Loma Chanko. Yeah. I did too. I watched it three times in a row because I was like, what am I getting wrong here? Am I getting this wrong before I start talking about it? Yeah. And I was like, no, no, Loma Chanko should have won. Yeah. I thought Loma Chanko won. That was one of those where I was like, ooh. And I think that fight fucked with Devon Haney's head a little bit. Like because that makes you feel like shit. When you win a fight and everybody thinks that you lost the fight and you got like, then you have to carry that around with you everywhere and you're like, Loma Chanko beat you. You're like, no, he didn't. Yeah, it's a mental battle. Yeah, it's a mental battle. And then you got to get it back. I think in that fight, he really wasn't even finding the best version of Devon because

59:04Devon was fighting out of weight class. He really shouldn't have been it. What was that fight at? At 35? Yeah. Then Devon should have been at 140. At that time, yeah. He should have been at 140. He's too big for 35. Yeah. It's interesting, man, that balance of, we're all fucked up in MMA because MMA, there's too few weight classes. And so there's giant gaps, like huge gaps, like at 185 to 205, you know, 155 to 170. There's no weight classes in between. I mean, that's nuts. Yeah, that's insane. I agree. I mean, it's guys that's like little fighting bigger guys because it ain't enough weight classes for them to be in, so that sounds crazy. It's stupid. It is the one major complaint that I've had with the UFC for a decade. Yeah. I was like, we need way more weight classes. And they, they're like, nah, we're going to keep it pure. These are the champs. Only eight champs, like, nah, that's crazy. I mean, it started watching the UFC.

1:00:05Oh, it's fun. There's one this weekend in Vegas if you're around. I'm going to watch some of you. That's a good one. I'm going to watch it because I'm, I'm like, like, lost. Like, I'm not really in tune with like a lot of the UFC guys and the UFC people be kind of mad at me when I, I say boxing is better, but it's my sport. So of course, you get to think it's better. It's what your life is based around. Sure. Of course. And if you talk to Max Holloway, he's going to say MMA is better. Exactly. And they got good explanations. Like, I understand what they're saying. Yeah. It's more like skills you got to learn it in MMA, but for me, I just for like boxing, like the skill level and the talent for me, I like better. Well, there's no question. The skill level and the talent when it comes to punching is way better in boxing. You see some sloppy shit that people do in MMA with boxing, but you also have to think they're thinking about takedowns, they're thinking about getting kicked. They're thinking about their calves getting kicked out from under them. Legs getting kicked, the body getting kicked.

1:01:06So they're missing out there punching. Everything. Knees, elbows. And then there's stuff that you do in boxing that you can't do in MMA because like your legs exposed. Yeah. You know, like there's certain positions that you would throw punches in that a guy would just calf kick you. Yeah, sure. And you get hit with one of those and you're like, oh, shit, and also your calf is numb. Yeah. And you're not moving good and your ankle doesn't work. Yeah. It's terrible. But that's the beauty of that sport is that it's so diverse. But the beauty of boxing is that it's so concentrated on hand techniques, that the boxing techniques in in boxing are far superior than what you're going to see in MMA. You see a few guys in MMA that could make it as pro boxers, but you don't see your level or, you know, or they can't be elite level. No, there's no way you can. Impossible. No. You ain't been doing it for long enough. Just like you don't see these elite MMA fighters that could compete in jujitsu tournaments and win world championships. Yeah.

1:02:06It's very, very rare. They used to, the only way that happens is if they were a world champion in jujitsu before they got into MMA and they still have those skills at a very, very high level, then some of those guys can kind of compete in world class levels, but what would you say is like the best skill in like the MMA wrestling wrestling. Wrestling. Wrestling. Because wrestlers can take everybody down. And if you get taken down, you're fucked. I want to learn how to wrestle. It's a great, well, Terence, show you how. Terence, Terence, like one of the only boxers that are like a back-eye fought in MMA, he could do very well. He would. He would do very well. I would wrestle him on wrestler, actually like USA team wrestling. He was kind of, you can wrestle. Yeah, he was kind of, he was good. He was good. He wasn't getting. He's not lost. Yeah. He was doing it. And look, his son just want to stay title. Yeah, for sure. He's the truth. Yeah. I want to learn how to wrestle though. It's a good thing to know. It's a good thing because it's a humbling thing. I feel like they're the strongest people.

1:03:07Oh, yeah. Like I feel like when they kind of strength, like real strength, their bodies are like stronger than most. Oh, it's a different thing. When they get a hold of you, you feel like a child. Yeah. You just get ragged all, like this is embarrassing. Yeah. You know, that's the most important skill I feel. But every fight starts standing up, you know, every round starts standing up. You know, at the beginning of the round, you're standing up again, so that guy's got to take you down again. Yeah. And in that transition, yeah, that's when you can catch someone. Yeah, I figured it out. Look, there's elite fighters that aren't great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex Pereira, who's a two division world champion. Yeah. But he's just a destructive kickboxer. Yeah. He's such a terrifying kickboxer. What is John Jones? John Jones, a wrestler. Yeah, wrestler. Well, he's an everything fighter. He could do everything. But he started out his career as a wrestler. I like him. Oh, he's the best ever. Yeah, I like him. The best ever. He's the best ever, because he's the smartest of all of them.

1:04:07I mean, he's the, that guy's stud. That's why I liked him. That's exactly why I like him. I seen a video home saying, like he watches everything, like from top to bottom, he watches interviews. He's going to watch. Oh, yeah. Every single thing you tell you find a weakness. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he gets inside their head. He knows every tendency they do. He sets traps. He does everything. It's funny. Daniel Cormier, who I love to death, is a great friend of mine. When he fought John Jones, they were talking before the fight about tendencies. And Daniel's like, oh, I know what you think I'm going to do. You think I'm going to lean towards the right and you're going to kick me in the head. And John did exactly that in the fight. It was so crazy when he landed it. Like I love both of those guys, but Daniel's a close friend. And so we landed that head kick. I was like, no. And I'm doing commentary. So I've got to like, I've got to be balanced. And I do love both of those guys. But I was like, damn, he did exactly what he said he was going to do. He said it on the commentary.

1:05:08No, I didn't say it on the commentary. I don't want to call it out there. But in the pre-fight, they were talking shit to each other. And one of the things that he has some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm going to exploit those tendencies. He's like, oh, you mean how I dip to the right when I go and he didn't exactly he caught him with that head kick. I was like, no, oh, wow. But look, that's the goat, that's the guy, man. He's the guy. He's the guy who always figures out a way to win, he figures it out. I heard it was somebody that he was supposed to fight though, that he wanted to fight him. He's like somebody really good. Oh, Tom Aspenal. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. See, the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his career where he's like, I want to fight legends, I want to fight fights that are like big fights against big names that matter. Tom Aspenal carried a high risk. He wasn't a very well-known fighter, even though he was the heavyweight champion. And he was really the heavyweight champion because John resigned the title. All right, so he was the interim heavyweight champion, so they had like an interim title.

1:06:12And John was the undisputed heavyweight champion and they were supposed to fight and they didn't make that happen. But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if he's going to fight again, if he's going to fight again, maybe he'll fight, because there's a big White House card. I heard about that. Yeah. And the White House card is a big one. And if that happens, that, it won't be Aspenal probably because Aspenal just went through eye surgery. Yeah. Two different eye surgeries. They poked in the audience and it's fighting. Aren't you like involved in your own UFC? Yeah. Yeah, I'm the commentator. Okay. I'm one of the commentators. So are you going to be doing like Zufo boxing tour? No, no, no, no, no. No, that's a Kalerman, Andre Ward, you know, they do a great job over there. I'll definitely watch some of those fights though. I think it's interesting. It's it, look, I think it's good to have more organizations that are competing to get the fighters because then the fighters will get more money. Money, yes. I think MMA could use that too.

1:07:12Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name in MMA. And MMA, unlike boxing, is all about the UFC. And boxing, it's all about who's the champ. Nobody gives a shit of its golden boy or Bob Aram, nobody gives a fuck who the promoter is. It's like, who is the fighter that's fighting? Is it Triple G versus Canelo? Is it, who is, who are fighters? And unfortunately with MMA, it's not that. It's like, if you are an excellent fighter, but you fight for the PFL, nobody knows. Nobody knows. There's a small audience of hardcore people that pay attention. So I fight for the PFL. Clarissa, huh? Yeah, she fought for the PFL. She's crazy. That lady's wild. She's the best. She's wild. She's the best. She's the best. There's nobody better. I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now. It's crazy. I just wish she was kind of smaller, so like some of the smaller girls who really think that they can be her, can see like, there's levels, she is the goat.

1:08:15She is the goat, but she's not getting, I mean, as much as the love that she does get, she's not getting what she deserves. And it's just because there's just not a lot of competition. I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It's just two Olympic gold medals, undisputed seven times in the sport. I just don't get it. Well, it's just women's boxing does not have the same level of respect and appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately. Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate you and you are a mogul, so yeah, I do as well. Your planet is now marked for death. Marvel Studios, the fantastic four first steps, is now streaming on Disney Plus. We will protect you. As a family. A lot of us, Johnny! Marvel's first family is certified fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. That has been fantastic. And critics say it's one of the best superhero movies of all time. Marvel Studios, the fantastic four first steps, now streaming on Disney Plus, with PG-13. What's up, Mr. Fan? It's Barbara Dyer!

1:09:17I've had her on. She's awesome. I've had her on the podcast. I'm a big fan of her. And just the only one that had the courage to fight in MMA, I mean, that was crazy. She's tough. And she really did, like, not bad, but she was fighting against lesser competition, so. Yeah. Definitely was light. You could tell she was charry. She had to learn the grappling from a beginner's perspective. She was breaking out of them, like, chill girls, they were scary. Well, she knows how to win, you know? And sometimes that's enough. You know, that high level is elite levels, she is. But I think she's rightly just concentrating on boxing, because I think she realizes that to be a world champion in MMA, she'd kind of have to abandon boxing. Yeah, for sure. It would be a long process journey. Yeah. And she'd probably have to absorb a couple more losses. Yeah. It ain't really worth it. Fuck these girls up in boxing. And I know she don't, like, lose in some. No, not at all. No.

1:10:17Yeah. She's fun. She's a fun fighter to watch, though. If anybody can get people to pay attention to women's boxing, it's Clarissa. Yes. Because she's exciting. I don't see that. That's why I don't understand. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't have a lot of nerve, a lot of nerve, a lot of nerve, all of the flowers. She's the truth. And I never seen nobody. No female, that's good as her. Evan, my life. No, she's probably the greatest of all time. I think everybody would agree. You know, you've had a few, there's a few great fighters over the years that have been female fighters, but she's the real standout. Yeah, yeah. No question. It's just, unfortunately, that sport, I mean, this is not a lot of women out there that want to get punches in the face. If you had a room full of a thousand women, there might be like one or two of like, I'll try that, you know what I mean? Now I think it's some solid female fighters in the sport of boxing. Oh, there are, there are. But not in comparison, the numbers in men. Men's boxing is just, you know, a lot of kids grow up, they want to be a boxer. Yeah, for sure. Not a lot of women are like,

1:11:18let me put the doll down and fuck some, check out. That's an unusual mindset. You know, it's just, you know, it is what it is. It's, we're fortunate to be able to have her though. Like, if there's anybody that's going to elevate the sport and bring in new fighters, it's going to be someone who is the, really the only person in the sport that gets a tremendous amount of attention as a woman. Yeah, she, she doesn't became a superstar, so. Yeah. It's definitely interesting seeing her in like the big arenas and having all the people walk out with her and it's amazing to see. So I'm enjoying her process and I'm glad that I'm here in the witnesses. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I mean, but, you know, other than her in the past, there haven't been enough, like women that have like, really, you know, Christy Martin, Laila Ali, and there's like a few that, like Ann Wolf. Ann Wolf was a beast. Yeah, I like that. She was one of the few that could flatline a chick

1:12:19with one shot too. Yeah, I like that. She was a tooth. Oh, yeah, man. And a great trainer too, when she was training Kirkland. Yeah, bro, they, they showed those videos of what she was putting him through. And, you know, when he fought Canelo, he didn't have her in his car. Well, just about to say the fight that he lost, he kind of did not have her on. Exactly. In the fight that he was a fucking general, dude. She was a general. She put him through some brutal shit, but those were the fights that he was ultra prepared. Yeah. You know, I think that's the, like, people don't really like, I feel like the best coaches in the sport of boxing are the people that kind of box. I bet. Like Robert Garcia, I think he's the truth as a coach. Sure. Bo Mack. Bo Mack, another fighter. Yeah. Buddy McGurk, he's a good, yeah. Oh, he was a great fighter. I just like the coaches that, that's been in there is kind of, right? They know. Sure. Yeah. I think it helps a lot. I mean, there's a few guy, like a manual steward.

1:13:19Did he have an amateur background? I think so. Yeah. I'm not sure. I think so, though. I think so. A manual just had a brilliant mind for the sport. Yeah. I like the way he talked, too. I'll be watching some of his old videos. Yeah. He actually, it was something that I was doing in my fight, for this fight, but I watched the video of him. And he said, um, fighters over train, like they're over trained. And I seen it. He started explaining the reasons why you know that they were over training. And I seen it. I started cutting back on some of the things that I'm doing. I'm like, man, I don't want to over train. Don't come out at my, at my best amateur boxing career. He compiled a record of 94 wins, three losses in the amateur, including winning the 1963 National Golden Gloves tournament in the Bantamway division. Wow, Bantamway. That's crazy. I mean, he was small. That's crazy. But man, what he did with the Cronk gym, he also had this gym, I cranked up. He made it like 98 degrees in there all the time.

1:14:21So everybody was like training in the heat. Yup. And he had a lot of boxers that was like top level boxers in there. So they was pushing each other to get better. So that's the Chico already. Oh, it is the Chico, right? Iron sharpens a iron. Yup. Yeah, you can't be the best boxer in your gym and have everybody else's way below you and really get to that world-class level. Impossible. It's impossible. You've got to bring in guys that's on a hot level. Honestly, for me, I keep like the young kids that's up and coming, like my little cousin, he's a great boxer. And he's up and coming. And I just was in the gym with him yesterday and placed bar with him. I keep a lot of good boxes around me, a lot of good boxes. This is another kid that made you all a chance. He's like 19 years old. They are so skillful right now to where, like, when I'm around numb, I'm still picking up things from numb, man. They probably don't even know it, but I'm definitely,

1:15:22I got my no pad out everywhere. I go. That's so important, right? It's so important. It's locked in here, like, I'm watching this stuff. Well, so everybody does everything different, you know? And you can just pick up little things here and there from what they do and start incorporating that. Yup. People don't know right before the fight with Tio. I'm going to tell you a fight that I was watching. I'm going to give out a little secret. It was an eight-year-old kid, Tremaine Williams. He fought a guy named Dusty Harrison. And like, they literally eight years old. But I liked the way Tremaine was fighting in that fight. He was using his jab and he was the shorter fighter, but he was keeping his range and distance. I was literally watching that eight-year-old kid fight right before the biggest fight of my life. That's amazing. And you were studying it. Wow. I swear. That's great. That's such a great mindset. I mean, that's how you really grow and learn.

1:16:25You could absorb something from everybody. Yeah, you can learn from anywhere. Like, I was watching an interview with you once where you were talking about Terrence. And you said, you really learn more watching Terrence than you do in the series. I still feel that way. I feel like I learned more from seeing the things he's doing than like beating a ring on that. When we in the ring, it's always chess. We haven't chess matches, but when I'm watching, I could see some of the things he's doing. And I'm like, damn. This dude is just different. I knew before the spence fight, what was happening. I knew before the connellafight, what was happening. Even I was in the locker room. I'm in the locker room. I'm looking at him, call my bad man. I'm like, you'll put me some more money in. I know it's on me. No lot of it. But watching him in the gym, you got to see hard training sessions. You got to see when he looked great. You got to see bad days in the gym.

1:17:27You got to see how he recovered, how he came back. Yep. He, like I said, he's one of the most competitive human beings I've ever met. So I do get to see all of it. Like I get to see, go home with him, man. Okay, now let me see how he thinking about this. Here, go back and watch the sparring. And when he watching it, oh my God, he's adjusting. His brain is just adjusting to the sparring. And he's just watching. Then we'll go into the gym the next day. And now he's just doing things and everything just on point. So do you do that? Do you watch your sparring sessions? I love that from him. Yeah. I really never used to do that. But I had seen him, I forget what on the sparring session he was watching. And I want to say on this, I've had, and he was watching it. And then I seen him sparring the next time and I'm like, we look like a million bucks. Like the adjustments that he made was this insane. So I started doing the same thing. I'm like, if I have a day, I don't like, I go home, why did I have this day?

1:18:31Oh my God, I keep doing that. Why do I keep doing it? Okay, I'm not doing that no more. Oh, I can hear him with this. I see that shot is open. Okay, now I'm hitting with this shot. And I think that helps me tremendously. That makes sense. Like watching yourself as an observer, the way you would watch an opponent. Yeah. Yeah. You got to see what you do good and like what you do bad and correct the things that you do bad. Because instead of just remembering it from the training, watching it. Yeah. It's like a bad habit sometimes when I'm like in a boxing gym, I like a fight. I don't have like, I don't know why I would get in there and sometimes I just turn into a fighter instead of realizing that I'm a boxer. Right. And then sometimes I get hit with shots and I'm like, oh, why am I getting hit with that shot? I'm like, I know my mental, my brain was already locked in on fighting instead of being locked in on boxing then, then you fight.

1:19:32I think the people, what is the difference between your mentality fighting and your mentality as a boxer? When I'm fighting, I'm emotional. And I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional and I'm fighting somebody. I'm trying to like beat them up and I'm having a contest of who's the bigger and stronger guy. When I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game and it's like, I'm able to hit you and you not able to hit me. And that's what I do best. So I try to like stick with what I do best and it's going to be a time to fight. So I have that emotional for sure, but I don't like just doing it for no reason. Do you sometimes feel yourself getting emotional fighting after pulling back? I never had it happen in a fight, but I don't know how it happened like in the sports away like, I brought you, your emotions is just taking control instead of like, you

1:20:34just having fun and enjoying what you're doing. Right. So yeah, I don't have no moments in the gym for sure. Since just like a composure thing, you look, you're all the sudden, you're now not thinking as much, you're just trying to beat your ass. Take three emotions out of the situation and just be you, like be present. That's really my main thing, like I want to be present in what I'm doing and not moving off of like feelings. Right. Right. That probably fucks up a lot of fighters, don't it? Yeah, for sure. Because so many, especially men, they're so wrapped up in their feelings and their emotions when they're fighting. Yeah, but fighters don't study they self, like I study myself, like I've got to check in with myself and see like, what am I doing wrong and what am I doing right and I correct it. That's rare. Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute because fighters depend on their coaches. They depend on their coaches to do everything and I do, I depend on my grandfather when

1:21:35I need him, but I know that I'm the fighter that's in there, so I'm not trying to just depend on them. I want to depend on myself also. So like do you try to get the other guys in the gym to follow your footsteps and watch footage, you tell them, like help them out with that? Yeah, like the younger guys that I've just mentioned, my little cousin and my little brother down there, Manny, I try to tell them to tune in with they self and do the same similar things, watch it so see what you're doing wrong and try to correct it, but they're younger, so as time go on, they will like pick up on it, but I can't rush how I feel and my beliefs on them right now. So the best thing you could do is lead by example, always. That's my main thing. Yeah, if you do all the hard work and you put it in, they'll see your success. When they have harder moments, they'll go, okay, what do I need to adjust? Let me follow Shakur. Yeah. Well, let me see what the champ is doing.

1:22:37Yeah, that's the goal. That's my main goal because like I said, I ain't going to be boxing forever, so once I'm done, I'm going to sit back and I'm going to help them out, so you plan on coaching when you're done? I probably don't coach just help out in the gym, just call me a secret weapon, call me a secret weapon. I'll be that guy. Do you already think about what you're going to do when you retire because boxing is a sport where when you retire, you're still so much life ahead of you, man, that's the truth. But I've been trying to like figure it out because I know it's going to be within boxing, but whatever I do, I'm going to do to the best of my ability. I'm going to want to like make tons of money for what I'm doing. If I'm a secret weapon, shit, I might make money just being a secret weapon, so Lizzy. Right. Just someone bringing the cap. I'm the right guy for it.

1:23:37Yeah. I got all the IQ. I watched too much boxing, like my life is like literally sit down and watch TV, watch. I've had watch, like I just live boxing, so I think that'll be kind of easy, but I just see myself like taking over the world. It won't wait. I don't know. Like I can't tell you like I don't know like my brain kind of like different. Like I don't feel like I know for a fact I'm not going to be boxing for long. Like I don't plan on getting in the ring doing the race and doing all that forever, so when I take over the world, it's going to be more so like me just locking in and using the same focus that I got for boxing into whatever else that I'm doing and take over. Whatever I do, I want to be the best in it. So you don't even have a thought of what it's going to be. You'll figure that out when you get out of boxing. I journal a lot, so I be writing things down, so I can't tell you exactly what it's going

1:24:40to be, but I do know that I'm going to be somewhere making millions and a different atmosphere. Well, that's a great attitude to have. I'm glad you say you journal because this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up. I wish more boxers were interested in writing books because I think there's some of the things that you're talking about today and some of the things you're talking about in terms of like watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned, they'll be very, very valuable if it's written down. But boxing knowledge is all word of mouth in the gym. It's all people who know things, tell other people and they learn things and you've got to go to these gyms and talk to these people or you get boxing knowledge from the commentators like Andre Wardle spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it out. That is where boxing knowledge gets sort of recorded, but I think it would be great if boxers could sit down and write just on boxing because you think about like what a huge

1:25:46sport boxing is, huge sport, like one of the pinnacles of sports, of combat sports. But yet there's not a lot of books written about technique and style and how they learn things and what they learned and why and what changed and I learned that in this fight this changed and I adjusted this about my training sessions and I heard a manual steward talk about overtraining and so I realized maybe I was doing that. It is one book. What is it? Andre Wardle book. Oh, that's right. People got to read it, but I'm not fully done with it either, but as I read through some of it, he's giving out some free game, like it's free game in there that people could go listen to it and read it and check it out because it's definitely like. Did he read it for the audiobook? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I know I got the actual books. I didn't finish it. I didn't finish it.

1:26:47I didn't finish it. I said that I finished it, but buddy talks all about those things. It's a lot of things in there that's like free game, like, okay, I like that, I'm going to take that. If you're training, even if you're training the fighter, like you're training the fighter, there's something that I saw that he said that I'm like, okay, I'm going to take that if I'm a training fighter. Narrated by Andre Ward, perfect. Killing the image, champions, journey, fighting, and forgiveness. He's the perfect guy to do that, too, because like I said, he's the guy that did it right, you know, went out on top. What's up? He helped you understand. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we need more books like that. I'll read that book. I haven't read it, but I'll read it because I think it's just, there's so much knowledge out there in certain camps, and it would benefit the entire sport. If someone would document some of that stuff, because some of that stuff is only told to the fighters that this guy's training and only told to the other fighters this guy trains with, and it's not out there, and it could get lost, you know, like I'm sure there's

1:27:52some shit that Floyd knows that only people around him know that have been told that will be lost. Yeah, for sure. You know what I'm saying? He told me before this last fight that I took in, and I'm like, oh, really? What is that? I'm using that. It's simple, though. It's very simple. I don't, like I said, it's hard for me to keep giving out the, maybe when I retire, I'll come on, man. What is that? Now, he just told me, um, stretching, stretching, stretching, powerful, like stretching knees, and I just gave up. It's simple, though, like people who know it, but do people do it? Dude, people don't even do it in MMA. Yeah. You know what crazy that is? Where you have to kick, and people don't stretch? Yeah. Like I was having a conversation with this dude who was a world champion, and I was explaining to him a, a Jiu Jitsu position. I was like, this is why it's effective. He's like, oh, I can't get my legs up that high. I go, what are you talking about? You, you can't except to stretch, because I don't really stretch.

1:28:55I go, that's crazy. You know, there's a lot of fighters in sports, and it's like, I will see it. That's crazy. I will see it. Well, Floyd has always been a guy who did everything right. I mean, if you want to emulate a guy's career, Floyd has been hit hard maybe three times in his whole career. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, he's a true flight. 100%. I every time I watch him, I'm like, he's a wizard. I didn't, I barely see anybody like, that good. Like for me, person less, barely like, it's only a handful of people that I could say like, okay, they're that good, like, his brain is working at a different level than a lot of people. Also, just insanely disciplined, always in shape, always took care of himself, would go out to a club, drink water, and then run home in jeans, in jeans. That's tough. I heard he had on like boots, boots, I never heard of that like that before.

1:29:58I could imagine. I mean, but that's the results, right? You get a guy who's just head and shoulders above everybody he fights, and just a master of pinpoint precision and movement and knowing where you are and hard to hit, but stood right in front of you. That's the crazy thing about Floyd. There's a lot of guys that are hard to hit, but they were like, fleet of foot and moving around footwork and Loma Chico style, you know, not Floyd, right in front of you, right in front of you, you can't hit them. Kind of similar. Crazy. Kind of similar to me. Yes. But I think he's definitely, he's a Chico. His mental was just too far ahead of everybody else's. Yeah. That's the main thing. Well, the one fight between like guys who retired and came back that I'm still interested in seeing is him and Manny, and I know they're going to do that on Netflix. Floyd. I think that's still a high level fight though. That's what I love about it, because I think Manny is still a high level fighter, and Floyd

1:31:00even in these exhibitions that he's been doing, he looks great, man, he looks great in sparring. You see him in sparring, like, good Lord, man, it doesn't look like he's lost a step. Yeah. Honestly, I don't see Manny being able to beat Floyd, man, but like, I don't see it. I think Manny looked solid, his last fight with Barrios, but I just don't see Floyd losing. Like I think it's some guys that he could come back today in the sport of boxing and fight. Don't think so. Like guys like Barrios. Even though he's 46. Yeah. Right. I think he was. He was like Barrios up. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I'm still like, there's levels. I mean, no matter what he's lost being 46, they haven't gained that yet. I mean, they're not, they were never there in the first place, because if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here. Yeah. And you know, he's not Floyd that fought Canelo or Floyd that fought Ricky Hatton. It's not the same Floyd, it's not that much different.

1:32:03Yeah. He's still so far ahead because he's not drinking, he's not fucking his body up, he's not doing anything stupid. He stays in shape. He eats right. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate Floyd too, because that's one of the guys that I never did no business with ever. And he still kind of helped me. So I appreciate him, man. I think he's a real dude. He got my love and respect. Well, I always say that if you wanted to have a style that you emulate, well, you want to have a great career. Look at that guy. Really, very few times his career ever got hurt. Yeah. Very, very few. You can count him on one hand. Yeah. You know, where he was in any kind of trouble at all. Yeah, that's my goal. And then when in rematches, oh my god, in rematches, he's always just like, like my Donna, like my Donna, the first fight was rough fight. Yeah. Second fight. He looked like a master. I'm like a lot of, he's one of the guys that makes me want to like, feel the experience

1:33:07of like getting hurt. Because like, when he fought Shane Mosley, that moment of like, he lost his whole balance everything almost went to his feet, but he stayed up and then he fought back harder. Like, I feel like that was like a amazing moment of his career. And like for me, I want to have the experience like of that moment, like I have never got hit, like crack like that yet in a pro so I actually want to experience you really want that? Yeah. Really? Because I want to show like that you could do it. Yeah, like you got to see like I got more in me to just than just being like a good boxer. Like I'm a good boxer, but I'm tough too. The Mosley fight was probably the fight where he got to hurt the most. Yeah. And the most dangerous because it was like, I think it was kind of in the middle of the round, right? Yeah. Yeah. I want to feel that experience. And that was primal. I told you. I told you, he told me like, man, why would you, why would you, why would you want to?

1:34:09But I'm like, I don't understand why, but I'll definitely do. Who do you think out there could do that? I don't think nobody. I don't think they're like mentally on the level to even. I think I'm just too far ahead. That, but that's the problem of being too far ahead is that it's going to be hard for you to get fights. Yeah. What you're talking about right now, is there anybody that they're talking about right now for you? No, wait, I haven't really heard none from a business standpoint since my last fight. So the problem is the last fight was too good, you know, like you would have probably got some offers before that fight, but after that fight, everybody's like, hold on. I don't know if I want that to happen to me. Yeah, I don't, I have no clue who I'll be fighting next. Who do you have your sights on? Like who do you, like if you could make the decision, who do you think is interesting right now? Falka make a decision, interest, what interests me may be, and this is crazy to say.

1:35:12I may go back to 35 and get that ring belt. Really? I may. We'll see the. Yeah. I can't promise that I will, but I may. What, what, what makes that more interesting to you? I like the ring belt, like I like the ring magazine belt. I don't know what it is about it. I always felt, but for me to have a ring belt at 130, and then I had, I got a ring belt right now at 140, but I never had a ring belt at 35, and it's like, should I just go get that ring belt just to, just to have it. So it's the belt, not even the opponent. I know the opponent that I would have to fight to get it. I'm hearing this Rayman Moritaya, I'm a musical fighter, he's just beat Andy Coole. So now I just think the opponent is more so just to have the ring belt. That's crazy. Like you're at a position where you're not even thinking about opponents, you're thinking about belts you'd like to acquire. That's pretty cool though.

1:36:16I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in. That's beautiful. But what about opponents? Are there any opponents like, if no one could say no, and you were like, I'm going to orchestrate my career, who would you like to fight? If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I probably, because the fight that I would think that would generate the most amount of interest at 135 would be tank. I know tanks got some legal issues now, and I don't know what his status is currently. But when it terms of big names, tank is the big name at 35. Yeah. I would love for it to happen, but the way that he went on, social media kind of like bashed me in a way to where he made it seem like I need, I need him.

1:37:18I just feel disrespected about it, because at the end of the day, I'm a grown man, I make my own money, I'm living a spectacular life, I don't need nobody. If he feels it's though, I need him, and if it's that kind of stuff, then it's like whatever. I'm not in need of that fight. The thing is, tank had gotten a bunch of those high profile fights. He KOed Ryan, he's had some big high profile fights, he looked great, and so for him to say that, he's probably, he's talking shit, obviously, but he's like looking at you as like you haven't had before the Lopez fight. You haven't had that big breakout fight, but now you have. Now you have, and it was more spectacular than you can, me, if you wanted to write out a perfect result on paper against a world champion like Tiet Fimo, that would be the fight you would say. So that's, I mean, if I had to think of like a big fight for you, if I was the guy with the magic wand, that would be the fight that I would set up.

1:38:19I would love to fight. I would love for that fight, that would be a big fight. Especially after you just beat Lopez, that would be a big fight. I would love for the fight, that might be the only big fight that I could think of, other than you going up. So 47's, like you said, that's a, that's a big jump, man. Yeah, I'm not, I'll make it though. I'll make it soon, soon, I mean, later than sooner, but do you think if you did that, you would want to prepare and put me mass on, or would you just stay at the weight you are and just get accustomed to fighting bigger guys? If I was to go to 47, I would want to like prepare, like I would want to do it slowly. I wouldn't want to just jump to 17 and, you would want to put on weight, you think? Yeah, some type of weight, yeah, because I'm little like, I can't just jump and ring at the size that I am at 147 pounds when I know guys are going to be a lot bigger.

1:39:20Right. Especially when you're talking about Ryan being 170 when he gets into the ring, he might even be bigger than that. He was big and ripped in his last fight. He looked fucking great, for sure. But it's like, that's one of those things, too, is if you do go up, going down gets real hard, going back. Like if you go up to 47, I don't understand the reason with that, because your body gets accustomed to being bigger, and then, yeah, and then, so if you put on mass, right, so if you put on muscle and you go up to like 147, and so you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that, and you drop down to 47. You've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle. If you stay at that weight, and then you got to cut down to 35, you're going to feel like shit. And the example that I always use is Roy. So when Roy Jones went up and fought John Ruiz, won the heavyweight title, then he went

1:40:20back down to light heavyweight. He never looked the same, because he was 200 pounds solid at a heavyweight, ripped like muscular 200 pounds. For him to lose 25 pounds of weight, and go back down to light heavyweight, that is fucking hard. Yeah, I'll get that. I'll get that. I don't, I feel like when Roy did that, Roy was like, I think he must have been trying to set up a big heavyweight fight maybe, or was he just trying to just win the title? I mean, I think he was just trying to be like the only guy to go from middleweight to win the heavyweight title, which he did. Yeah, I don't understand why he did that, because when he fought Tarver, it was like, I don't know what was happening. I didn't really think Tarver was as good as Roy, but Tarver beat Roy. Tarver's a bad motherfucker though. Tarvers are a very good fighter, and I think he Roy, I think Tarver in that fight, first of all, they had fought before, right?

1:41:22They had a real close decision loss, the Tarver loss. And then Tarver got into his head at the beginning of the fight, so he got an excuses tonight, Roy. That was crazy. That was crazy. That was crazy. Like, to hear that, like, right when you're about to fight, any questions for the champion, every question for the job, got an excuses tonight, Roy. Oh my God, man, I don't know. That was one of the wildest things that anybody's ever said. That would have turned me up though, like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to pitch somebody saying that to me right before he fought, now I'm going to win. I already want to beat you bad. Right. Now I'm going to want to beat you even better, like, then after the fight, I'm going to get on the mic. And what did you say? Did you say something? But when he dropped Roy and knocked him out, I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it. But I was worried about him because I know what that does to people when they drop weight. And dropping down from 200 pounds to 175 will really wear your body out. Yeah. So you think it was more sort of weight than the skills of Tarva?

1:42:25I would never say that because I think Tarva has elite skills, I mean, Tarva's elite. I think he's elite. Oh, come on. I think Tarva's the elite fighter elite. You don't think he's elite? No. No. I mean, he's not going to respect the same performances and not as good performances, but I think in the performance against Roy, he looked elite. Yeah, he looked good that night, but because he he rose to the occasion. I just don't know by elite, elite low, elite personally, I'm not the biggest Tarva fan. So, okay. Well, I defer to your championship knowledge, but I mean, in that fight, you can't say that he didn't look spectacular. Not a day. He did. He looked on point. He looked like he was the better fighter at that moment, but yeah, awkward South Pa. When I watched the first fight, I thought Roy was a way better fighter than him. I thought Roy just stood on the ropes for way too long. I don't know why he did that. Was the first fight before or after he fought Ruiz?

1:43:28It was a feeling after the first fight they had, too. That probably wore his ass out, too. I think I just think once you go all the way up like that, you should probably stay there. Yeah. I don't know how he went up. I don't want to, you know, it's hard for a guy in his thirties to put on that kind of muscle. And generally, you have some help. Yeah. So generally, some Mexican supplements involved. And so the problem is, it took us to, once you have taken that stuff and then you stop taking it because you want to go back to your normal weight, your whole endocrine system gets fucked up. This is the problem with juicers. Guys who take juice, the thing that happens is, man, don't tell me this whole, I'm not saying this about Roy. Okay, okay. Fighters in general. We just talk in general, fighters that gain weight and have lean muscle and put on that kind of mass, generally, they're doing it with some kind of supplement, some kind of

1:44:32either steroids or something that juices up your endocrine system, whether it is peptides, yes. I've never heard of this. You didn't know? No. But come on, man. For real? No, I didn't know. A lot of fighters said, took stuff. No, no, no, I know that. I know that people is cheating. Well, in the older days before they were testing, oh, come on, man. Like in the 90s, who knows how many guys were on steroids? Damn, that took away the credit of them guys because I feel like when I watched them guys, they was the truth. They are the truth. But I don't think, I think, well, here, let me, let me use what I know for an example. An MMA, MMA is a better example because in MMA, fucking for sure, I could tell you 100 percent people were juicing, 100 percent because I knew guys who were juicing. They would tell me what they were on and everybody was juicing. So then they started implementing, so then the USC starts getting sanctioned by athletic

1:45:35commissions and they test day of the fight. The day of the fight test is an intelligence test. It's not a steroids test. It's like, were you intelligent enough to cycle off right before the fight with the right kind of steroids so that on the way in day, when you get tested, you don't test positive. That's all it is. A lot of these camps, like big MMA camps, they have scientists working in the camps, make up an own cheat. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, not so much anymore because then the UFC, it is scary, but the thing is everybody was doing it. And then on top of that, you had an organization like Pride, and I don't know if you were aware of Pride, but Pride was the big organization in Japan. I mean, they were selling out 90,000 seat arenas in Japan for these promotions. They were fucking huge and everyone was juiced to the tits. I don't know if everybody was, but a lot. I don't know if Rampage was. Rampage told me he never took steroids and I believe him.

1:46:37But a lot of guys were juiced up. And I know for a fact they were juiced up because they told me, they told me. And they also told me like, Ensign Inuy, who fought for Pride, told me that on his contract, yeah, Ensign Inuy, yeah, like not related, but same last time. Ensign, he was a great fighter, a pioneer in MMA. Ensign told me that on his Pride contract, it said in all capital letters, we do not test for steroids. I had a friend of mine in Japan, they encouraged him to take steroids. See this scared me because I got to get enough boxing ring and I know that people will be cheating. Some people cheat. Some people cheat. I know it's me like low level fighters that you'll go there and you'll be like, why do this guy punch way harder than a lot of people like, I don't understand it. And it's like, well, there's a few fighters in MMA that when steroids started being tested for, their body shrunk and then their power went away.

1:47:41Like there was guys that were knocking everybody out and also good knock guys out. It's crazy. I mean, there's so many stories in MMA where you see fighters, physiques, just deflate, like they're a balloon. They got air let out of it. I feel like I seen them boxing their life. See guys, they kind of like get caught with steroids and then they have a fight at that and it's like, they look like shit. Where did the power go? Exactly. That's the power. That's fact. That's fact. I get it. That does happen. And then there's also ways that we can't figure out what they're doing yet. I mean, this has happened all throughout sports, right? This was the whole thing with Barry Bonds and the Balco scandal in baseball. They had developed a steroid called the clear and what the clear was was a steroid that was undetectable. They hadn't figured it out. But eventually they got caught. And so who knows what kind of shit, it's not like they stopped trying to innovate. Yeah. And come up with ways to get an advantage. There's definitely people doing it now. But the way the UFC works now, the first they brought in Yusata and now they have a company

1:48:45called Drug Free Sport that does the same thing. And they just show up and test you. You don't get a notification, it's going to happen next Tuesday. Yeah. So you can take a bunch of shit that clears it out of your system. So they just show up, knock on your door, hey, it's time for a test. And then you gotta do. That's how they should. They've either do the same thing, they just show up and yeah, that's how they should do. You're in blood. Yep. Yeah. Just anytime. Now they say my last count, they tested me like four or five times. Yeah. God damn. Well, that's the only way to know. You got to show up randomly and test guys. That's the only way to know because I ain't never ever really did anything when they come to cheating. So I'm. But if you go and this is again, not casting any disparaging remarks about Roy, who's one of the greatest of all time, but if you went back to the Ruiz fight, do you think they were testing him? I fucking doubt it. I fucking doubt it. There was no Vada testing back then. But then Yusada was in boxing? No. I don't think so.

1:49:46No. No. I could have sworn he was in boxing. Okay. Let's find out. Was the Roy Jones, John Ruiz, Jr. fight, did they utilize Vada testing? I don't think they did. Yusada. Yusada? Yusada. Okay. I don't think, I don't think that, look, that was always a thing about Manny. Like people always say that about Manny. I heard that too. Right. Only reason why I was believable though, because I never, I never seen that in my life. And kept the knockout power. I'd never seen that in my life. Right. I never knew history on the sport. You go from one weight, one on one, whatever he started out. So one 54 and you're just knocking guys out. I know. And his physique, you know, I mean, he looks fantastic at every, at every step of the way. And he also had that dude, what did say, was not held under a modern UFC style Yusada program.

1:50:46There's no record of being part of any independent year round Yusada Vada scheme, like we see today. I said, he's dependent on the athletic commission. Yeah. But again, the athletic commission, it's just five days, that's an intelligence test. Yeah. I will show you, show him, um, Alistair Overeem, what he fought Brock Lesnar, like at the weigh-in. Now Alistair Overeem is the greatest example in MMA of a guy who, when he was on the juice, he was unstoppable, unstoppable. They called him Uber Reem, when he was on stop-o, because he looked like a comic book superhero. He was so jacked. And then when they started doing Yusada testing, he looked completely different. I mean, completely different. He did. He got softer. He's still good, but he didn't look like Uber Reem. When he, there's an image of him flexing on the scale, like, look at him, right there. Come on, son, I mean, come on, look at that girl, look at Harry on his face, and she's

1:51:48looking at his back, she's like, what the fuck? And that was, I mean, come on, man. He was a fucking monster. He was knocking guys out. He was destroying everybody. He was juiced up, and he started his career as a light heavyweight. So he started his career as a 205-pound guy who was thin and skinny. Has light heavyweight? Yeah, that's light heavyweight. The USC's weight class are all fucked up. Like, well, I know it's stupid, but they have the same names, but different weight classes. So like, welter weight is 170 in the UFC? Yeah, look at him. So that's the difference between how he was when he was juicing versus how he was, is he the difference? Yeah. It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy? It's crazy. Damn. So the guy on the right was just, he had to move more. He was still very skillful. He was a very skillful kickboxer, very skillful MMA fighter. But I mean, when that guy was fully jacked up and juiced, man, he was almost unstoppable. See, that's why I'm, man, that's why I be, I don't like that.

1:52:52Like, that's my thing, I don't not want to get in the ring with somebody that's cheating like, I feel like that's... I'm so good to where it's like, even if you are cheating, you ain't going to hit me. But imagine if you're fighting a guy that's at your level, but he's cheating. Yeah. That's the problem. That's the problem. Right now there's not really anybody in your division that's at that level that's like really compelling, I mean, other than at 135 tank, but imagine if there's someone that's at your level and you're pretty sure they're cheating. That's got to fuck with your head. Honestly, I feel like it's some competitive guys at these way classes. They just not know. Right. But it's some names that's like, okay, like even Lamont Roach. Lamont Roach is very good. That fight with Jervante was crazy because that was a knockdown. That's a fucking knockdown. He won for sure. The fact that he took a knee and the referee didn't call it a knockdown, that's crazy.

1:53:55He won. To say like, I'm just saying it is guys out there for me. Lamont is a great example. It would be big fights and competitive fights and I don't spar with Lamont. So I know Lamont is a good guy. He's legit. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did not know about him before that fight, but after that fight, I mean, look, that sucks, man, because that goes down on his record as a loss and that's great. Was it a draw? Draw. Draw, that's right. It was a draw. And he won the fight. He clearly won. He won the fight. Yeah. But the knockdown, like you can't say I got shit in my hair and it got in my eyes and that's why I went down. That's crazy. That was very amateurish. It was weird. Right? Amateurish. I didn't. It was weird. I never saw it in nothing like that. Well, it's like Jervante just looked like his head wasn't totally there in that fight. Yeah, maybe. So do you require vata testing for all your fights and do you have that ability to do that? Yes. So in negotiations, you make sure that everybody is taking tests.

1:54:56When you come down to the... Good for you. Yeah. Not bleeding. Yeah. Good for you, man. Good for you. I mean, we're very fortunate that we have these testing bodies like that now, available. Yeah. Because, again, like, if they had a, who knows what a lot of fighters' legacies would be if they were testing them at every step along the way. Yeah. They get caught. They get caught. Yeah. Yeah. So with MMA, it was the Wild West for a long time. For a long time. It was the Wild Wild West. What he was doing, all kinds of shit. I wouldn't be able to do that. Like, I would not be able to get in the ring, lose to somebody, and then know they cheated me. Right. Because I don't know how I would react to that. Like, that would be like one of the moments I may crash out and I don't do crash out things. So I might crash out about, like, I ain't no way you just cheating me, bro. Right. I ain't no way you just cheating me, bro. Well, the thing is that with combat sports versus every other sport is your goal is to hurt your opponent.

1:55:57Yeah. And if there's a thing you're doing that's cheating that helps you hurt your opponent, that is a different kind of cheating. Yeah. It's not cheating in baseball. Like, who gives a fuck if you hit another home run? I think they should all cheat in baseball. I think there's no get on steroids. Make it more exciting. Like, because the only thing that's exciting about baseball is home runs. Right. Yeah. That's the number one thing. If you got a way that you guys can hit more home runs, fucking give it to them. You stupid. Yeah. It's like harmless. Like, it's not really going to hurt your body. Exactly. I get it. Exactly. But boxing is like. It's life or death. Yeah. If boxing is real life or death, that's why I don't know how like our react. Don't you? Anybody watching this? Please don't cheat me. I am not the guy to be cheating, so there's understanding. Well, I mean, whenever people are looking for shortcuts and people want to win, there's always going to be someone that's willing to do something that they're not supposed to be doing. That ain't it. Don't like this. Like you said, it's life or death.

1:56:58Life or death. See, you could cheat and hit somebody with the wrong shot and then they dead. Right. What's the guy that killed somebody? Oh, Sabrina Matthias. Right. Hey, um, kid. Yeah. And now he just got popped for cheating. So it's like. Oh, he did? Yeah. I didn't know that. What did he get popped for? I don't even know. He lost recently, right? He lost. Right before the loss, they had popped him for cheating. I want to say. Don't he Smith. So that he lost, so he, he got popped and then he lost the next fight. Yeah, they let him fight. Wow. Yeah. But it's like a wonder if he's the same guy after he got popped. That's right. I don't know either, but because he was killing everybody. I mean, he actually killed one guy. Yeah, but he actually killed somebody. But if I'm the family or somebody that he killed and he comes out as cheating, I will be holding up now, bro. Can you see what Matthias got popped for? That's great. He was, what was the dude who just beat him?

1:58:00Dude just stopped him. Not to Smith. Yes. Yeah. That was a crazy fight. That was crazy. They would go to war. They went to war. I mean, that was not an easy fight for him. Matthias is a dangerous dude, man. Yeah. That was a great performance by Matthias Smith though. Yeah. People don't know back in the day when I was in the junior worlds. So, Osterine, everybody's on Osterine. What is it about? I don't even know much about Osterine. What does Osterine do, Jamie? Let's find out what it does. Osterine, selective androgen receptor modulator designed to treat muscle wasting conditions and osteoporosis by promoting muscle growth and bone density without the severe side effects of anabolic steroids. Popular amongst bodybuilders for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss. It's not approved for human consumption by the FDA banned by WADA and linked to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression and cardiovascular risks.

1:59:02So, it helps you keep muscle and bone density. Yeah. Well, it makes sense that that would be a good supplement for boxers. What do you show me here before or after? Look at that guy. The one you got your link on? Jesus. Well, he looks like he's faking it in the third picture. But, I mean, you're always going to have certain people that are going to cheat. I hate it. Are there any, like, world title fights that take place that don't have VADA testing? Yeah, I think it is. I think people don't hate without it, but I don't, I don't play that. Yeah. I don't play that. I be thinking, man, I just started to do it in the gym that was, like, not good one time. Like, he's not good at all. But I'm sparring him. Like, men is do punch harder than everybody I ever been in the ring with. And I wonder, like, dude, did that do, do he be cheating?

2:00:03Well, some dudes just have natural God-given power, too. When you, like, fat, not kind of like you out of shape, then you just punch super hard and slow. But it's like, boom, boom. I would be thinking of you, BG. They might be. But they might just have the gift. Yeah. The thing about boxing is punching power. You can enhance your punching power, but that crazy punching power. That's a gift. Yeah, you're born with it. Like, Ernie Shavers type punching power. Yeah. Wow, Dar, wilder. The greatest example ever. Oh my god. One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best example. He called the eraser. All the mistakes you made, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Because I sit there and watch wilder. And I'm like, Dog, it's some fight that I see him not punch at all. Until the shot is there. Right. And when the shot is there, he got you is over. It's crazy. He's already had. I mean, he might be the greatest one punch knockout ours in the history of the heavyweight Christian.

2:01:04I think he is. I think he's like no question. Like he is probably the hardest puncher to ever. Wax. He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers back in the day. Punch harder than Wilder. Wow, they all said Ernie Shavers was the, like even Ali said, nobody had harder than Ernie Shavers. Wilder. I know, I know. No. He's the Wilder too, is he's not big. He only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson Fury the first time. That right here, he got crazy. I don't think nobody could take it. It's crazy. I don't think nobody could take it. I'm like a lot. I saw a fairy take it. But you know what he's like? He's like a giant Tommy herons. Yeah. That's what it's like. Long leverage. Just torque. The width of the shoulders. The snap of the punch. Just blah. I wish he retired. Oh, like I feel like he. What else is there to do? Like you don't did a lot in the sport. You don't made a lot of money. I just wish like certain guys just like, okay. I know. I know. What am I doing this for now?

2:02:04Well, he's kind of fight Derek Chasora, which is interesting. Because they're both the same age. They're both up 55s. They're both kind of in the same. But you know, I like Derek Chasora here. Cool dude too. He seems cool. Yeah. I mean, it's a great time for boxing. There's a lot of talent. A lot of very, very compelling matchups. Are they going to do a B-Val, a better B of rebatch? Are they going to do a... I don't want to see that. A trilogy. I want to see B-Val versus Benavides. Ooh. That's the fight. I don't... Well, the fight was Benavides versus Canelo. That never could get made for some reason. I mean, that distance is too big for Canelo to like... I'm not... I see both sides. Like, I love Benavides and I'm a fan of him. So I see the side of like, like, fight me bro. You the guy I'm the guy. We eat number one. Number one. Let's fight. But then I see Canelo's side. He's like, man, this dude is 200 pounds on the regular. Right. And I'm nowhere near that weight.

2:03:05So it's like, why would I fight this guy like... I don't think it's fair. Like, that's how he felt himself. Yeah. I understand it. But Canelo went up and fought B-Val. But he knew... He didn't... He didn't think B-Val was going to be him. You know what I'm saying? Nah. Well... He didn't think he thought he was going to be B-Val. After B-Val beat him, you think that killed the... The chances... He knew, like, it's time. Like, I cannot fight these guys that's super big and... I love watching B-Val that's fine. He's a... He's a killer. He is a fucking killer. He did something that helped my hands. He told me to put on the gloves that I'd be wearing on fight night. And they helped my hands. So I appreciate him, too. Do you do anything to strengthen your hands? Do you do exercises? Yeah. It's a... I can't tell everybody. I can't tell everybody. All right. Tell me later. Yeah, I'll tell you later. There's a... There's different things. People do, like, buckets of rice is a big one. Oh, yeah, for sure. I do that, too. Yeah. Moving your hands around on buckets. What is it?

2:04:06Benevita's targets to meet you, B-Val. Oh, there we go. That's the fight. That's the fight. That's the best versus the best. I think that's one of the best fights to make in the sport of boxing. Well, he's fighting Ramirez at Cruiserweight, right? Yeah. And then he's going to drop back down to light heavyweight in the fight, B-Val. I like that. Yeah. I want to make the biggest and the best fights happening. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Art to better be of... But better be of his, like, 40 now. Yeah. He's the truth, though, too. Oh, he's the truth. He was a crusher forever. Yeah. He punched too hard. Oh, my God. He had another one. He just bangs dudes out. He's got a crazy style. Yeah. I mean, it's funny when people sparred him. They have these stories. Yeah. Like, he hits you and you're like, what just happened? Yeah. I can see it, though. And I watched him fight B-Val. I'm front row. Mm-hmm. And like, B-Val, like, they catch shots on his glove. And like, I can see, like, how hard he was punching his glove, like... Yeah. I don't know how before they're taking that.

2:05:06I know. And he was 39 back then. Yeah. That's what's crazy. It's like, we missed his prime. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. We seen one fight where he fought the overseas guy, Gavard, something, and he beat him up. Yeah. Oh, God. Well, he was, at one point in time, wasn't he like, 39 and no, with 39 knockouts? Yeah. Which is just nuts. Yeah. At that level. That is just nuts. Just nuts. Yeah. Just nuts that he stopped everybody. And it looks natural, too. It don't look like he's on, like, steroids. No, no, it's not true. It looks very natural. But didn't he get in trouble, caught with something? He got caught with something? Yeah. Put that better, B-Val. Not better, B-A-V. I feel like I might be wrong, but I feel like maybe there was a tainted supplement. Man, come on, not better, B-A-V. I think so. I might be wrong.

2:06:07Yeah, you got it. I'm wrong, I apologize. You got to be wrong for better, B-A-V. I guess this is 2024, is that? A-Typical. Yeah, this is what it was. A-Typical drug test result. Adverse findings. No, what does that mean? What does it say? What does it say? What did he get caught with? A-Typical finding is not a violation, requires more testing, better be of underwent, those examinations at VOTA request. VOTA reported negative results from the follow-up test. So what was the positive test? Hmm. What does that mean? Yeah, what do that mean? Oh, here it goes. He received A-Typical findings for human growth hormone and 5D-Andro-Stanadial, both occur naturally in the body when an A-Typical finding is received further testing is required to determine if an athlete naturally produces the substance in his body at a greater

2:07:08level than the average or elevated levels, which were signs of anti-doping. Interesting. So it could just be that he just has naturally high levels of H-D-H and this 5D-Andro-Stanadial. So that might be what it is. Or... Who's eating? Could be some sneaky shit. You know, I mean, did you ever see the documentary Icarus? It was a great documentary about the drug scandal in the Olympics in Russia. And so this was... What was this? 2016? Which was it, Jamie? Was that the Olympics? I was at, yeah. I was dear. What a... And they banned the whole Russian team? Exactly. I thought that was 2020, though. They banned the Russian team to follow-up Olympics, I believe, because of the 2016. So this guy, Brian Fogel, did this documentary, it's a crazy documentary and the documentary

2:08:10was not supposed to be... 2014 Winter Olympics. 2014 Winter Olympics. So what happened was, Brian Fogel was doing a documentary. So he was a cyclist and a documentary guy. And so he said, I want to do a cycling event, a race, completely natural. And then I want to do it on steroids and I want to document it all. And then, you know, make this documentary on what is the difference and just show... Because cycling is a very dirty sport. Yeah. Like, tour to France. Those guys, they put engines in their fucking bike to make it like easier to pedal. They do a lot of crazy shit, blood-doping. So he does this naturally. And then he gets this guy, what was his name again? Grigory. Grigory, Grigory Rechenko. Who was Rechenkov? Who was the head of the Russian anti-doping federate, but it was really a doping federation. So what they were doing at the time was...

2:09:11So he starts work with this guy. This guy is telling him what steroids to take and how to get better. At the same time, the Russians get caught. Like while he's filming all this and that guy has to leave the country and that guy spills the beans and he tells them exactly what they did and what they did was they took the clean urine. They made a hole in the wall. So at the place where they stored all the urine, they made a hole in the wall where they could swap out the Russian urine and swap it in for good urine. And they found these micro abrasions on these supposedly unopenedable jars. And so when they looked at it with a microscope, they said they figured out a way to open these jars. So they would pass it through the hole in the wall, open the jar, empty it out, put it in clean piss and give it back to them. So essentially the entire team was doped up. Yeah. So basically that's why they say in Olympics, they wasn't sure if Russia was going to be able to compete, right?

2:10:11Exactly. And so in Brazil, the follow-up Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire team couldn't compete. The cycling team. No, the entire Russian team. All the... So the cycling thing was just this guy that was doing this documentary and he was using the head of the Russian anti-doping agency to help him do it, pup like openly. So it was just for a documentary. It wasn't like trying to win a race and cheat. He was like saying, let's see what you would give me and how much better my performance would be. So in the middle of doing all this, this scandal gets exposed. And this guy who he's using is at the head of the scandal. And then this guy tells him everything. Yeah. And it's nuts. Russia did compete in Olympics though. They did compete in 2016. 16 must have been competing in 2020. Well, it was one of the... I think they allowed individual athletes to compete, whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent Russia. Okay, yeah, because it was a guy from Russia in my way glass.

2:11:12Oh, yeah? And on 2016 Olympics. He definitely was kind of strong, too. Ha! Well, the Russians, I mean, they were the beginning of all this stuff. Like the Eastern European women weightlifting, they said they came over to cheese. Well, they figured it out. They figured it out early on. They've been doing it a long-ass time. So who knows, with better be of or any of these guys, you've got to always assume that without something like Vata or Drug Free Sport or Usada, there's always going to be someone who's trying to figure out a way to get a competitive advantage. Yeah, I hate it. It's gross. I hate it. It comes with it though. Yeah. It comes with it. It is what it is. So, anything else you want to cover before we wrap this up? No, I ain't got none. I know something good. Listen, man, congratulations on everything. It's been beautiful to watch your fight. I'm a giant fan. Thank you.

2:12:13And I'm happy to see after the Lopez fight, you get all the respect and the credit that you deserve, and I can't wait to see what happens next. Thank you. I appreciate you. And I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to come and fight for it. You're the best part guys in the world. Thank you very much. My honor. All right. Bye.