#2550 - Rick Springfield

0:00The Joe Rogan Experience Shrink my day Joe Rogan Park has my night all day Do you believe? I think something's going on. I don't know what that's something in it. Yeah, I know. The whole argument of, you know, a species living long enough to surviving long enough to actually have a facet of light travel is a tough one. It is a tough one. Are we rolling? I think they probably have some unique propulsion system that has nothing to do with moving in one direction to another. I think they fold space in time. Yeah, this is what, yeah. What is it? The wormhole that brings the two things together so you skip all this? Yeah, I think that's the theory, but I mean, obviously it's...

1:00But then it's them living, that species existing long enough because we're like, we're getting close to it. Yeah. And we're nowhere near that. So the species living long enough to achieve that and then come here is the, you know, that's the stumbling block I have. Yeah. Well, a lot of people have that stumbling block. I think it's also the possibility that they didn't evolve in the same violent world that we did. But then there's the question, well then what gave them the motivation to innovate and move forward? Because for us, a lot of it is survival and competition and that's the reason why people innovate in the first place. It's war is create great innovation. I mean, the real, the more interesting theory is that they're monitoring us to make sure that we can successfully pass this sort of adolescent phase of evolution that we're currently in. Yeah. That's why they hover over a nuclear bases and shit.

2:00Yeah. We hope we get there. It's very debatable. Yeah. Well, listen, man, thank you for being here. This is kind of cool to meet you. It's fascinating. I mean, I listened to your music when I was in high school, which is crazy. And to see you look as good as you look now, I mean, we played a video. I don't know if you saw it. Yeah. We were freaking out. Like this guy is like, how old are you? 77. 77. That's fucking incredible, dude, because a lot of your contemporaries, when they've, you know, even guys younger than you, they're falling apart. And you were out there singing Jesse's girl like you wrote it a week ago. It was crazy. That was actually a great comment. I really appreciate that because it's a, I'm still very passionate about playing music. And, you know, they say, how do you, how can you deliver a song that you played a million times? It's because the energy is the audience, you know? I mean, I wrote the song to see an audience react like that to it.

3:03It's pretty difficult to just sit back and go, you know, so it charges me up too. Well, it's nice that you still enjoyed and appreciate it because I think even though it's the dream for everyone to become a rock star, for some, I mean, for some people, something happens along the way. And they just get so accustomed to it and they get, you know, worn out by it. And then they don't love it anymore, which is crazy. I know. Well, I, obviously it depends on the person, you know, and it depends on whatever experiences they have. I've had pretty good experiences. And I just, I've always wanted to do it, you know? I mean, since I was 11 years old when I first saw and held my first guitar, that was what I wanted to do. And really, it's kind of centered around playing guitar, although that's not what I'm necessarily known for, but that's what I enjoy the most, you know?

4:12And when I started to write that, that, that kind of changed everything for me too. You know, it gave me a great, a forward focus rather than just playing, but going somewhere with the writing. How old were you, when you first started performing in front of people? About 15, 15, I started playing. I, you know, I had a school band together. And then I, I got kicked out of school and I said, I got kicked out of 11th grade. What, what happened? I didn't show up anymore. I just, you know, I, I show, I discovered the guitar and, and I was, I was, I had a serious depression when I was a kid. I still, still deal with it, but, but, um, it, I was failing in the only arena that was available to me at the time, which was school, you know, with friends and school and work and all that, the school work. And I just wasn't doing well and it was really dragging me down and I started, it's discovered the guitar, started staying away from school because I couldn't face going to school.

5:17But, you know, instead of playing video games and getting sewn, which wasn't available to me at that point, I was reading, um, Robert Block and Norris Derliffe and great writers, because I loved horror and playing the guitar. And that was my education, really. After once I learned to read and write, you know, that was what I would took out of school. Where were you living? I lived in Australia till I was 10, then we moved to England till I was about 13. And that was a big, that was a game changer for me. And because your accent is weird. Yeah. It's like, it's all over the place. It is. I'm trying, I'm trying to lock it in and figure out what the hell's going on. I know there's some words I can't say with American accent. I can't say Australia without, with an American accent. This is not possible. Yeah, we moved to England. That's when I discovered girls and guitars. And that was like, this was the beginning for me. It was a banquil cliff in the shadows, clifitude in the shadows.

6:19There were before the Beatles. And yeah, it was, and then I moved back to Australia and then I went to Vietnam for a couple of months. And then I was came over to Vietnam, 68, 69. There was promoters in Saigon and Denaing and then we're looking for the closest occidental country was Australia. So the GIs wanted to see girls that reminded them of home. So as long we had a couple of girls in the band, they would hire you and you could two of Vietnam during the war zone. It was pretty insane. We were there for about four months. What was that like? It was insane. I thought, oh great, we'll make money. Of course we didn't make any money. We spent it all at the PX and we weren't making much money anyway. But we based out of Saigon and Denaing and we toured from Cameron Bay up to the DMZ. We were at the DMZ, the Tet after the Tet where they crossed over the Viet Cong, crossed into the cities and everything and like done the big assault, you know, the Tet assault.

7:30And I remember there, I would two miles in the DMZ on that next Tet and I remember New Year's Eve and the parachute flare star going off like this and there's like a line of guys heading towards us. It was freaking freaky. They, you know, they kept them in Bay but we got shot at and rocketed and we'd be playing and it'd be mortars landing. We'd be friends with some Navy guys at Marble Mountain which is outside Denaing and we went back there to give them a free show because they were so appreciative. They loved seeing the girls but they wanted connection with home. So they took into the tents and we play Hendrix and get stoned and even though we were Australian, there was still a connection there. And so we met these guys and we really got along well and we stayed overnight with them and we went all got in the bunkers in the perimeter bunkers and I stayed in the radio shack and we got attacked and I'm throwing mortars down the freaking tube of the radio shack and it was throwing mortars.

8:42It was freaking. Yeah, this is before you couldn't do any of this now. This is 960, 869 and it was the guy you know you see traces going off the guys, the rest of the Bamber and perimeter bunkers and it was it was pretty insane. Holy shit. We actually went up on a mission in Apache helicopter too because they said you guys want to come and we're all like yeah. But it was you know we it was pretty hairy holy shit man. That's got to be insane. When you're over there, we're like what the fuck have I done? It was what's fear. Sorry. I went on the wrong way. It was pretty much a fear factor the whole time. Holy fuck man. We we we we we we slept with.

9:42Did you get older you get a dry throat? We slept with a lot of times where the GI slept in there. You know their hootches and wake up with dust over there. Oh yeah, there we are. Holy shit man. That's what we slept in the hootches a lot of the time. How old were you then? I was like 67, 68, 6, 7, I was 18. Wow. Wow. Yeah, and those jeans hadn't been washed in about three months. You had to be like rethinking that decision to go over there. I was there and it was okay. We make the best of it. I mean there was you kind of fall into a mindset although I wasn't you know there wasn't going out you know shooting with the GI and you fall into a mindset there that everything's legal. You know anything anything goes. We we did some pretty nutty things are at one point we were standing in line with 40 other guys in a you know a hot and being serviced by this is one.

10:56One one Vietnamese hooker and it was just 40 guys waiting. Yeah, it was one hooker. Yeah. Holy shit. And there was nothing much to do but smoke you know I smoke dope start smoking dope there. That was the first time. Yeah. But I haven't I didn't I haven't not really been a dope or you know that I did there and it was kind of considered just a thing to do. Everybody was stone all the soldiers was done all the time. Yeah. Wow. You know the last thing I want to do is be high in a war zone. Dude I we're in a train right which is this beautiful beach town and they go there for R&R because they could serve right but it was still dangerous and we were in a we say in these sometimes if we weren't with the stay on an army base which saying these old villas that were all French villas it was once beautiful and now we're rat infested you know I mean we'd be sleeping on cots and rats to be gone underneath.

11:59We got stone. I remember one night we got stone and the next thing here machine gun right outside the house and you hear the guy goes hit the lights hit the floor. So lights go out me all hit the floor and you didn't know what was going on but when you're stone is like oh my god it could have been anything holy shit man. But it was it was freaky but the but being stone helped you deal with it you know not have the constant fear although when the fear hit if you're stone is like you go over the over the top you know but it was just a way we deal with it. I remember we'd be playing for the truth you know that we plan on the back of a truck and we played in fire bases we didn't know I we all thought it was going to be like a Bob Hope tour you know you come and up to lead a helicopter you play they you know they were sitting in bleachers I applaud you getting a helicopter fly away it was nothing like that was just a guy out of Saigon that hired a hiredess and I was like it was I talking about.

13:05I get lost very easily I can have a ADHD and there's so much awesome shit around here. Look at what I'm going to look. We're talking about getting stoned and oh yeah I'm we're sitting on a plan on on on a on a back of a truck and there's the guys sitting there on their helmets with their M16s right just watching the show. And I'm we finish and this guy comes up to me and you stoned out of me so you go I'm going to go see what I can kill now man. I put this helmet on and walks out into the jungle with a with a company but it was just bizarre experiences like that but now I look back and go what the fuck was I thinking you know it was it was unreal and it's so weird because I remember Arthur C. Clark telling the story about how you sitting with a guy on a plane. He said what do you do you say during the war and he went on for two hours about what happens during the war and he says what do you do now he says I'm sure it's salesman. And that was it you know like what he does now was a yeah but the whole the war experience you know it's it's you can go on forever because it's so much happens and it's such a in a space so much is lived you know and it the fear is.

14:22Kind of when it is having that much that much fear constantly is is pretty taxing and now it wasn't we weren't even going out and shooting although we did we shoot everything from 45s to tanks and we and you know we'd be driving along and get shot at and like I said we'd be playing in the rockets of the mortars would start landing and they'd hustle us into a into a bunker but it was a you know we're going to go to the like those guys were in walking point you know well that was also one of the strangest wars ever because it didn't make any sense why we were over there and then when the soldiers came home instead of being greeted like heroes like they were in World War II. Yeah I mean it was really a terrible for them because I know it's meeting them over there they go you know that you think when they get over there

15:32it was a bad war for sure no one of the worst wars ever and these guys coming back from that it was just that that experiences must have been so different because you're over there you're killing people you don't know why you killed people and then then you're in the grocery store like that seen from what's that movie. You know the movie I'm talking about no apocalypse no no no no no no no. I don't know. Hurt locker. Oh. Remember when the guy comes back, he was, you know, diffusing IEDs. He comes back and he's walking to the grocery store and he's just like, what the fuck am I doing? Like the contrast between the two places is just too much. It's too crazy. Yeah, it's, my mom said when I came back and they picked me up at the airport, she said a car backfire and I jumped and, I don't remember it, but she said, you know, my eyes look kind of haunted. How could I imagine? Took me a while to kind of get through it.

16:32Did you see people die over there? What's that? Did you see people die over there? We saw trophy albums, which were kind of scary. They said, love the GI's kept trophy albums where they'd photograph like body parts or a guy that had a 50 millimeter shell. Goat that we said, you know, and it was pretty freaky. The leader of the band actually died when we got home from a disease. He picked up over there, a lung disease, died at 25. What was it? His name is Pete Watson. He was the leader of the band. I was a guitar player in the band. I wasn't a lead singer or anything. And he, he must have gone somewhere where we didn't go on the days off and you know, picked up something. Just some jungle disease? Yeah, the doctor said, you've been anywhere exotic lately. He said, I just got back from Vietnam. Why? He said, well, you got this thing in your lungs that is pretty rare. So, you know, I didn't know if it was Agent Orange

17:32or if it was something you picked up from, you know, whatever was in Vietnam, that yeah, he lasted about a year. Oh, wow. Unfortunately, none of you guys got it. Yeah, we all, we all race the doctors and got, you know, just X-rays. But it was okay. But yeah, he's weird. He, I was looking up at the other day and it didn't realize he was so young when he died. You know, he was older than me then. So, seemed like an older guy that he was only 25. Wow. How much time in total were you over there for? About four months. Holy shit, man. There was a point where they wanted us to go play in North Vietnam. He said, we'll keep the choppers going. There's a troop over there that wants you to come and play and we'll keep the choppers going. So, if we have, if we get any trouble, you can get, you know, and luckily he said, no, we're not doing that. The weight is over. Football is here and so is Draft Kings.

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19:32Nonwithdrawable rewards issued as $50 click to claims every seven days for 21 days. Terms at DKNG.co slash offer, limited time offer. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. Varys by state. You know, that experience. What was the decompression like when you got back home? I don't really remember because it's just one of those. I mean, the hardest thing for me was that I'd throw in a mortar down and I did hit somebody. And they came in the next day and said, Hey, you got one. You got one. And that was still has a place, hard place to land in me. You know? Yeah. That's really the kind of the one thing I brought back with me that I couldn't really find a place for that to land. And still, it still seems like years ago,

20:34another guy, another place. So explain to me how this is happening. Like, where are you? Were you throwing these mortars down? Oh, is it a place called Marble Mountain, outside Denang. And it was a Navy encampment on the beach. And I was in the radio shack. And the band members who were in the perimeter, the perimeter boxes, you know? And they said radio, you know, it was like the movies. Radio came in, actually, we've seen movement over here, a check for friendlies. And they said, no, no friendlies there. So they said, hey, you want to throw some mortars down, too? And it was John Wayne time, you know? I mean, as a young kid, I didn't really understand what I was doing. I said, oh, yeah, let's fire a gun, you know? So I threw the mortars down about five or six mortars, which I could have easily lost a hand, you know? I mean, you cut that kind of thing.

21:36And then came in the next morning and said one of them had hit a VC. Wow. How long did that sit with you for? What's that? How long did that sit with you for? How long? I think it's still there, you know? I mean, it doesn't like, it's hard for me to, you know, kind of face that I was responsible for the end of life even though it's distant and it's war. And I didn't really have anything to do with it and didn't really know what I was doing. But, you know, as a kid and playing, like I said, John Wayne, but it was, it's pretty heavy when I, you know, when I think about the reality of it. Did you write any songs about that experience? No, I wrote about it in my autobiography, but it's not really, well, not yet,

22:39hasn't been so material. Yeah. Because it seems like there's probably something there. Oh, yeah, there's definitely something there, for sure. I have, I mean, not to commercialize it, but I have a record, a new record coming out, the deals with, which probably could be elements from that, it deals with getting older. And, you know, like my first album, Working Class Dog, was, I was 29, 30, it was all about getting laid, you know, because that's all the guy thinks of, and that's what you're right about. But as you get older, there's other things to think about. So there's, you know, getting older, you know, the thinking of death doesn't somewhere out there. And so you write about, I write about stuff that I think about, and that's what I've been thinking about. You know, sex is still in there, but not as much as it was

23:41when it was 29, 30. Of course not. Yeah. Well, it's kind of amazing because when you were young, and when you first started on this musical journey, there were no 76-year-old rock stars. It didn't exist. And it was thought to be a young man's game period. And when people got to be a certain age, they just stopped playing. And, you know, the Rolling Stones were like sort of the first to defy that. Yeah. Yeah, I remember in 88, they put out an album, and it was a big deal. They got the Rolling Stones put out a new album. This is crazy. These guys are going to go on tour. This is crazy. I know. And they just recently said, well, I don't know if I can do it anymore. Keith did, right? I know. Recently now. I saw them at Circuit of the Americas, the racetrack out here. It was like 100,000 people. Four years ago, three years ago, whatever it was,

24:41when they played in Austin, it was fucking incredible, Matt. Mick has two trailers that are just Jim equipment. He has two huge tractor trailers, and the inside of it is just a Jim. That's awesome. And that guy works out every day just so he can keep doing it. Yeah. I mean, he's the inspiration as far as how far you can push it. Because he's the canary in the coal mine. Yeah. I mean, they're less album. He sounds incredible. Incredible. He's 18, you know? I mean, Paulie has now started. I love Paul McCartney. He was the guy I looked up to as a kid, you know? And he's starting to get a little weaker. But he's still amazing. I mean, to me, he's one of the great rock voices. Oh, for sure. But Jagger has said, it's crazy. I mean, he still sounds the same. Not just sounds the same, but when he's on stage, he's moving. He's non-stop. Non-stop and dancing and moving and singing with emotion.

25:45Yeah. And it seems just like when I saw you perform Jesse's girl, like he's singing it, like he still loves it. Like he still appreciates experience. And never got jaded by it all. Yeah, I think, I mean, I saw an interview recently with him and he said, and the guy said, you know, do you feel different? Because you know, you've been this all your life. He goes, yeah, I feel different than other people because of it. You know, I feel separate from them. And I understand that there is a degree of that that just happens. Because it's not normal to get up in front of, you know, a couple of thousand people and have them want to be there and to be with you and to say, you know, it's, I guess, that's kind of the element of everyone wanting to be a rock star is an actor. You're not an actor's done on film or whatever and then played.

26:45But the rock star has it on record. Plus, he's got it live. That live connection is, I think what everybody kind of looks out in the end as far as that's what I'd love to do. Is to have all those people go, yeah. Well, it's also that experience is such a positive experience for everyone totally for you, for them. It's a, when you, when I go to a live concert, I'm always amazed at how good it feels. Like there's a, it's like you're on a drug, like you're feeling it. Like it's like everyone is loving the music, the sound, the performers there. And the fact that they're actually right there, there's so much going on that it's like you walk out, they're like, that was fucking awesome. I know, I feel like it's kind of taking the place of church, you know, where we go to commune with, with our fellow, you know, humans and we're all, it's different the sports event because sports event is generally two sides.

27:45But when you're at a concert, everyone's pointing the same way. Also, it's all positive. Like if your team loses, you don't leave there dejected. If you're there to see, you know, fill in the blank, whatever band, and you leave there, you're like, fuck, that was awesome. Yeah, yeah. I say actually that our job is to give the audience 90 minutes, two hours of freedom from the crap that bothers them during the day. Yes. And it frees us too. You know, frees me when I'm, I don't think of all the shit that the monkeys talk in my head. So it's mutual, you know, mutual good feeling. Yeah, 100%. And it's also, it's like such a uniquely positive thing that you can give to people. Mm-hmm. And if you can perform to your fans every night, the amount of positivity you're spreading, and the amount they're receiving, and you're receiving is just what a unique life. Because the average person will never experience

28:47what you experience on a normal night. Yeah, that's probably true. I think there are different very, you know, versions of that. I mean, like you're, you know, you understand that. You get a lot of attention for what you do, you know, it's basically, somewhere, you, and somewhere inside, you're going, someone's noticing me what I do. I'm not just, it's not just, you know, because we create art, art, we create art because we just have to. And art doesn't exist to be liked. Our ego wants it to be liked. Mm-hmm. And it's our ego. I think that that whole thing charges, you know, the whole audience thing charges, but I think if you don't have any ego, you're not going to get into the business anyway. Right. And I think it feeds that.

29:48And I think it's the smart person who can try and put it into perspective. And not, you know, like certainly, Mick Jagger has put it into perspective. He certainly had time to put it into perspective. And his is, you know, a huge experience. But I think Paul McCartney is the same way. It's very, it seems, you know, considering what he's done, he's amazingly grounded, I think. Yeah, for sure. I mean, just to be not completely insane. Yeah. When you're that famous for that many years, the most famous. I think everyone has to have an ego and the ego kind of gets you to the dance. But if I think if you're objective about it and if you're smart about it, you realize that like serving the ego is a fruitless effort. It's there's, that's not the way to do it. No, I agree. I think the way to do it is to eventually transfer

30:50from I want all these people to like me to, I want to put all my energy into whatever it is, the craft, whatever it is in making it amazing. And don't think about anything else, like, oh, they're going to love me for this. Right. I think that poisons the well. I think I agree. And I think that's what I meant by, you know, art just is. If you just create art out of, you know, because you have to, because you need to, but about a the ego that makes it want to be liked, you know, which is not, I don't mean that's a good thing. I just mean that's. It gets you to the dance. Yeah. There's no, without ego, without wanting that. And most, most people who start out in it, they start out from a place of being an outcast and feeling like they don't get enough attention. So, I want me to. And then you decide, oh, this will get me way more attention that I've ever had in my life. And it'll fill that hole. Fill that hole, but it never does. Never does, no. But I think once you become centered or grounded

31:53in this experience, then your focus should not be on you and attention. All of your energy should be into what you're doing, whether it's making songs or writing jokes and performing them, whatever it is. It's like, then it becomes, okay, now the new task with all this energy is just, let me do the best I can with whatever this thing is that I'm doing. Yeah. I agree. I think like the first, I always say the first couple of years when I, when I first hit for me, I thought it was all about me. And then I realized it was all about the audience, all about the fans. Was Jesse's girl your first big hit? I had had one when I first came over here in 72 from Australia. I had a sonkel speak to the sky. That was, it got me the deal over here. It was a first hit solo hit I had in Australia. And it was like number 10, I got to number 10 over here and was hit in Canada.

32:54But it was, it was kind of a weird country, you know, holy roller kind of song. I wrote it from my mom and I'm, that's cool. Very different than, you know, what I became known for. But it was, that was kind of the first hit. And then they kind of, they managed it. I started to get and picked up by Teen Magazine, which I had never seen before. In Australia, they didn't have them. They had one music paper and that was it. And they're asking me, you know, doing all, I'm doing all these interviews, music interviews. And I look at the finished article and it's like, you know, cuddle up with Rick. You know, is Rick too tall to love? I'm not, what is this? This is not what we talked about. I talked about, you know, yeah, I come over here. I'm a songwriter and I went up, you know, I always kind of stopped by. I'm going, what is this? So I started, you know, I, my ego got the better of me and I started going, well, I'm, you know, I'm getting noticed in America.

33:54It's a big apple, you know, so I, like, should I kind of lean into this, I guess, you know, because I'm getting a lot of press. So I did for a little while and it was going nowhere. I wasn't writing the music that, you know, I was writing songs about a guy that committed suicide, writing songs about a woman that was trying to decide if she should leave her husband because he's cheating on her and they're going, where's the, where's Cherish? Where does somebody want to be wanted? We're giving him all this press, you know, and there's no, there's no hits here. I have to speak to this guy. So I eventually left my managers who were kind of pushing me in that direction, which is a drag because I love one of the guys who's Steve Binder, who actually I still talked to, who was the director of the Elvis special, you know, the comeback special. Ah, and I met Elvis on a plane once and, and I said, you know, my managers Steve Binder and he gone, I love Steve. You met Elvis on a plane? Yeah, yeah, going back to Australia

34:56because I was having trouble with getting a visa here. I had to prove I wasn't putting an American out of work, right? So that was, that was a phrase. Who was president back then in America? What year was this? This was 71, 72, 73. So that was post Nixon, was that Lynda Johnson? Or was that Nixon? When did Nixon get kicked out? I think, was there still Nixon? When was Watergate? Watergate was when I was over here. 74? So it was Nixon. 74, yeah. Yeah, so I had to prove you know, and we're taking all these, like, it was really weird. We're taking these scrapbooks full of this, these crappy stories in the teen magazine. It's going to, you know. Ah, cut it up with Rick. Yeah, look here. It's the president. Look how much press I'm getting, you know, an American, this is not going to put an American out of work. Anyway, so I, the planes stopped at Hawaii before the kids were to refuel, because it couldn't go all the way to Australia back then. And they get on the plane and I walked in and this Elvis sitting,

35:59like right there, I was in the back of the bus back then, the Elvis sitting in the first class. He looked great. He was skinny, jet black hair, he skin looked great, tout a blue suit on. It looked really, just, I go, I wasn't a fan really back then, so I was more into the British invasion, everything. They said, oh, that's Elvis, that's cool. So I go back there and I had a girlfriend in Australia at the time who was a giant Elvis fan. So he did a thing I've never seen anybody do. Now when you get in a plane and you see a ceilab that got like a hood on and a glass, and they're like, they're looking down. He got up before the plane landed in Hawaii and walked back signing autographs and taking photos with all the people in the plane. Wow. And he got to me and I went, hey, Steve Binter, my manager, because I know him and Steve got along really well on the Elvis special, because the Colonel wanted it to be Elvis in a Christmas sweater singing Christmas songs. And Steve walked into the dressing room one time

37:02and the Elvis plan with these buddies, and he goes, I'm gonna put that on film, which became the him jamming in the box room. And the Colonel's gone, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Keeping it a family thing. And so they butted heads like crazy. But Elvis was on Steve's side. And for once Elvis took, yeah, I wanna do this. He didn't go with what the Colonel said. So I know he got along really well with Steve. So anyway, I'd heard that before I met him and I said, yeah, I love Steve. He's a great guy. And I said, would you sign this to Allison, who was my girlfriend at the time? And he signed it and I put, I hit my little tape recorder that recorded all my songs and I put the autograph in there. And we went through Australian customs and they saw my tape recordings and said, oh, we're gonna see what's in this might, might be porn in here. Who knows, you know, so they took it and came back in the Elvis autograph was gone. They stole your Elvis autograph? These motherfuckers.

38:03I know, don't trust them. They bastards. Oh, back in the day too. They didn't have any cameras on them. No, exactly right. Ugh. I know. Dirty people. Oh, that must have been so wild. His relationship with the Colonel was so creepy. That movie was fantastic. What Tom Hanks killed it as the Colonel. It's just like, what a creepy relationship. And it's so common for whatever reason for these really talented people to have some person managing them. It's like fucking creepy character. Lulus, yeah. We are dying to be people. Enabling them. The Beatles were rare in the respect that they had Epstein, Epstein. Where did, how are you pronounce his name? Brian Epstein. That was a smart guy. And on the cusp of like pop really happening. And did good things with them. Cleaned them up, told them, you know, bow. And the music was a music. But he was one of the really few that really,

39:06I don't think he knew what he was doing, but he had a good intent. And so he found ways to make, you know, do the right thing. But I've never met anyone who read anything. The Colonel wasn't a friggin jerk, you know? Yeah, I just don't understand how Elvis had no one who was capable of separating him from the Colonel. Yeah. Well, if anyone could have stayed, Binder could. But he, I think, you know, he felt secure around the Colonel. Yeah. Well, there's certain people that, especially because Elvis had a pill problem, right? So it was probably he was his enabler. Yeah. He was, you know, shielded everybody from him, kept him safe and kept him isolated, you know? Oh, it was great. How was the performance, you know, it was overweight. Yeah. Oh, it was great, man. You were great. One of my favorite performances of his was when he was really fat when he was singing in Vegas. And he sounds like he's mumbling. And then what is the song that, do you remember the song, Jamie?

40:09We played it before. Who's? But he, once he starts, once he starts belting out the song, you're like, my God, he's good. Oh. On the piano, he's on the piano. What is it? Yes. On the chain melody. My God, that's good. Yeah. And you just realize like you see him and the way he's talking, he's clearly high as a kite. There's something wrong, he's so fat. It's like so sweaty and he looks terrible. He's like, oh my God, poor Elvis. What's wrong with him? And then you hear him sing, you see him sing, and it all goes away. You're like, who fucking cares? Who cares? My God, that's magic. That's magic. That is live performance, like personified. There's something about the magic of an insanely talented person performing live. And that one, Elvis, was that. And it came through all the drug use and everything and all the, yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, I know exactly the thing you're talking about.

41:10Yeah, here it is. Hell, I can't play it. And it's getting harder and harder and harder. Yeah, we can get kicked off YouTube. You can't play the music. It's we can copyright strikes and shit, you know? Which is unfortunate because like, look how fat he is. Poor guy. And that's when he was performing, was he living in Vegas? Oh, I think it might have been after that, but he was doing the vagus things right to pay for the Colonel's gambling debt. Yeah, isn't that nuts? Wow. Well, I bet it also was probably easier for him to not have to go anywhere. Yeah, he didn't like playing as I heard that. 1977, my God. So that's right before he died, right? Didn't he die in like 78? When did he die? Yeah, I think that's, yeah. I know where I was when he died. What did I say that was? That was two months before he died. Wow. Two months before he died. I died on August 16, 1977.

42:11Wow. And how old was he? Like 40? 42. 42. In that insane. That's crazy. And look at you. Keep on trucking, dog. What do you do to stay healthy? I work out every day, oh, six days a week. I eat well. My dad died early. My dad died when he was, we died twice, actually. He died when he was 51, and they brought him back. And he had an ulcer on his major artery and he's stomach. And he was worried about it. And he didn't, he thought it was cancer. So he didn't want to go to the doctor. He didn't want to hear the bad news. You know, he thought what you don't know, you know? Right. So, and he eventually, I was at home, actually,

43:13when he passed out and they took him into the hospital, and he's in bed, and he's, but the ulcer burst. And he started bleeding, coming, blood coming out everywhere. Luckily, there was a doctor just down, a couple of beds down, and they rushed him into emergency. But he did die, and his heart stopped, and they took 15 minutes to get it going again. Oh my God. And he came back, you know, he's a real and charged guy. Just really loving, really amazing person. He came back, because he's basically a five-year-old. Oh, wow. And I remember sitting in the backyard trying to help him remember who was who in his life. And he, I go. So, Michelle is married to Jo... No, no, no, no, no. George is, Michelle is George's daughter. He's married to Nan. He go, okay, so Nan is the daughter. No, and it was just, it was a heartbreak and trying to get him to remember his old friends.

44:15And so I, that stuck with me, because he hadn't paid attention to it. And so I'm kind of the opposite now. I do pre-novo, I do blood draws. I was pre-novo? Pre-novo was a body scan, MRI body scan. I mean, you were asking about, you know, just how I was saying, yeah, but this is all part of it. There's knowing what is going on inside you, you know, not ignoring anything, which is not to say, you know, I won't sip off a curb and get it by a boss one. But you know, you do what you can as you know. Yes, you know. Yeah. I have a blood draws, as soon as I get home, actually, just to keep an eye on things. And anyway, so he, so he didn't pay attention. And that's, that kind of stayed with me. And so I started focusing on what I ate. I started being aware that earlier, maybe the normal that, you know, there, there is a use by a date, you know.

45:17Yeah. So I guess I started, I started running, just happened to be a new thing in the early 70s. So I started that and I'd always loved running. I was the only thing I was good at at school was actually was running in English. And so I started running and that kind of got me into the whole, well, if you're running and you maybe miserable eat well and then you want to get some upper body strength and work out. So I just started doing, I've run all my life. Until about 15 years ago when my knees suddenly said, no, we're not going to do that anymore. That's pretty good. Like something else. To get that long running is pretty incredible. Yeah, it was, it was great. I did love running. I'd get like on the tour bus side. We'd, I'd get up to the tour bus and wherever we were, I'd just put on clothes running clothes and start running. I'd run 20 minutes, one way, 20 minutes back.

46:18Sometimes it's going to some pretty weird areas, you know, of a city. And you start worrying about who was around, but it was a great way to stay in shape. We actually went on, came off the road in more, better shape than we went on. We'd go to gyms and work out. And I wasn't a big druggy or alcohol guy back then. And so it was, that was what I did with my time off. It was, it was staying in shape. And watch what I eat. And my wife's an amazing chef. And we always eat real clean, organic. And I have, you know, she turned me on to, to, to skin routine. Back when I was kind of too embarrassed to tell my band members that I took care of my skin because they call me a freak. You know, I thought skin was, you know, I thought, well, guy's skin is different from women's skin. You know, my God, whiskers, you know, need all that stuff. The skin is skinned. And she's got me, my wife, she got me, my girlfriend,

47:21then she got me into, you know, taking care of my skin. And I still do that. I still take care of my skin. And I'm actually in a trial with a company called Bemy that is really unique. And I've been in the trial for four years with this stuff where they take a sample of yourselves from behind your ear. And they grow yourselves. And the growth serum, they pull the growth serum from that and put it into something that you put back on your face. And it's, if you heard of a skin medic, it has one. Only they use a baby four skins. Baby four skins for real? Yeah, newborn four skins. Really? Yeah, that's what they get the growth factors from. But this is your own growth factor. So you're putting that back on your own body, back on your, you know, on your, on your face. It's been pretty amazing. Outperfer your method. Yeah, yeah. I'm not into baby four skins on my face. I know they're doing it with different stem cells. They're doing it with what they do is they do micro-needling.

48:24And so they kind of like micro-needle your whole face. And then they use exosomes. And they also use something called mucells, which is the latest and greatest version of it. Right, but that's outside stuff. This is, the Bemy stuff is your own cell, which is pretty great. You know, I think that's a difference. I think the thing that's different is that with your own cells, as you get older, they're just not as good, you know. Oh, you think the younger ones work? Well, they certainly seem to like mu cells in particular, which is the newest iteration of stem cell technology. Seems to work much better than cells that they used to get from either fat, these to get it from your fat, or these to get it from bone marrow. Yeah, I've had the bone marrow stem cell down. I had that injected into my hips. It works. Yeah, it definitely works. It just doesn't work as well. These mu cells, I mean, there's people that are going over to Saudi Arabia and doing it in Dubai.

49:24That's right. It's always, it's never here. And I got into a regenic kind of orthochine. I've done regenic cancer. Yeah. And because Colby used to have to go to Germany for it. Right. And now they've got by past the law somehow. And so I get that pretty regularly, oh, don't regularly, because it lasts a couple of years. But I'm due for it now in my shoulders. Because you know, it's lifting weights, no matter what, what how heavy you go. You can still, you know, as you get all the, you're aware it just happens. How long are you in town for? Leaving next to you after this. Oh, OK. I was going to send you down. This is a great clinic that my friend owns in Austin, called Waste Well. And they do all the latest and greatest, like the state of the art, all the latest and greatest themselves technology. They have hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, all this. I mean, everything that's state of the art they have. Wow. Yeah. I wish I had known that you had a bunch of injuries.

50:25Oh, that you come in there. I make a trip back to city. Yeah, they took that out. Russell Crowe comes down all the time. He comes down specifically just for that. So they do red light and everything. Everything. Yeah, I've done hyperbaric. You should get one. You should get one of your house. It's a fucking game. Really? Yes. There was a study out of a university in Israel. They did these. They did. The protocol is 60 sessions of 90 minutes over 90 days. And they show that it lengthens your telomeres. It's equivalent to a 20-year difference in biological age. I saw I read that to them too. It feels different. Like when you do it, you feel better. Do you have a lot of home? Yes, I do. And if you have a whoop strap or a oar ring or anything like that, it'll show that you've had an incredible recovery. It'll like specifically show from one session you have an amazing recovery today. And it's specifically because of this hyperoxygen saturated environment of the hyperbaric chamber. I wonder if that would help me sleep.

51:26I have a trouble sleeping. Do you? A trouble sleeping. Yeah. Why do you have trouble sleeping once more? I don't know. I wake up every couple of hours. And I haven't been able to sleep all the way through for quite a while, actually. Huh. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Imagine waking up tomorrow with perfect discipline. With every you decide you're going to do, you just do it. No procrastinating, no negotiating with yourself, no making excuses. Yes, it's a little unrealistic. But everyone wants to be better at something, right? Better is a feeling defined by you. And for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. So while it can't magically help you keep plants alive, it can help in other ways, like teaching you how to set and stick to goals as you chase your horticultural dreams.

52:30Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash JRE. That's better, h-e-l-p.com slash JRE. Do you ever do sauna before you go to bed? Do you do a sauna at all? Do you do that? Not a lot, no. Okay, that's another one. There was a study out of Finland that- Red light followed. No, no, no. Red light, yeah. The thing about red light is like, I'm infrared. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's good for you, for sure. But there's not robust studies on it, like there is with the dry sauna. So the finish have been using dry saunas forever, and they did a study over 20 years with quite a large sample group. And they found that the people that used the sauna four times per week for 20 minutes had a 40% decrease in all cause mortality. 40% less strokes, cancer, heart attacks, everything. And it's because of heat shock proteins that your body develops when you're exposed to that.

53:30It's also, it has an effect of increasing your endurance because it's essentially like static cardio cause as you're sitting there in that heat, your heart beats faster. And it actually literally increases your cardiovascular output. Wow. It's incredible. And- Well, check into that for sure. One of the ways that they use it is contrast therapy. So what they do is they'll go in the sauna for 20 minutes and then they usually have their saunas by a lake. And they'll like go in the cold water of the lake and then back into the sauna. And so what I do is I have a cold plunge. So I have a cold plunge just right next to my sauna and I go back in 34 degrees. Wow. And so I go back and forth. It seems cold, but I'm so used to it. It's not cold anymore. I mean, it is cold. No doubt about it, but I'm so used to it. I just climb right in and it's nothing. In the beginning, I was like, I can't do this. This is crazy. I think the first time I did it, I did it for like a minute. I was like, this is so hard. I got to get out of this thing.

54:30And then eventually, I got to the point where I do three minutes, like it's nothing. Wow. Yeah. Wow. But if that's also incredible, not just for your body, you don't want to do it after workout. So one of the things about after workout is it's not good. It's not terrible for you, but it's not good in that it decreases hypertrophy, which is like increasing muscle size, because a lot of that is dependent upon the inflammation that happens during exercise. So when you exercise and you break down your tissue, the strength comes because you're about a heels after the exercise. So you blunt a little of that recovery by getting in the cold right after exercise. So the way I do it is I get in the cold before I exercise. So first thing in the morning, I hop in that thing. Every day. Yeah. And then after I do three minutes, then I start my workout. And the first thing I do is a series of mobility exercises. I usually do those right after I get out. I'm right outside, right after I get out, I start,

55:31I do these like swings and twists and all these different things. These like golf swings. And it's all just loosening the body up and getting my heart rate up and warming my body up since it's been cooled down. And then I start my strength workout. So I do my workout after that. And then after I'm done with my workout, then I get in this honor. Wow. Yeah. It's awesome. You feel so much better. First of all, just the cold, when you get out of that cold, your endorphins are flying. Your norapranephron spikes, your dopamine spikes, you feel fucking amazing. It's worth it just for that. It's worth it just for that. If you could sell a pill that makes you feel as good as I feel when I get out of that cold punch, that should be on every shelf, without the cold punch. But it's available. You just do it. And also it gives you a certain amount of mental toughness. That's a bad thing. Yeah, I know I get that. Yeah. There's a plent of it. Perseverance. There's a thing where you don't want to do it, but you do it.

56:34And when you can just train your mind to just do things, you don't want to do routinely all the time. That's what I do with working out there. Better for you. I hate walking into a gym and I love walking out. Yes, exactly. Everybody feels the same way. And that's so many people. It's the daunting task is the first few steps. It's just so hard to get going. But once you get going, then it's not hard at all. Yeah, I agree. I agree. It becomes the good habit, rather than the... Yes. And you make it, I've had a gym. I've had a gym a home for a while. But I prefer going to a gym, so I work out. But I have a close buy, so I don't have an excuse. I want to... It's late, you know. Right, right, right. So yeah, I get all that I do. And being on stage when you said the endorphin hit is kind of... I get that on there too. For sure. Oh, for sure. Like, wow. Yeah, the thing is, like, you can't live on that. Like, you can't perform every day just to feel better.

57:34You know what I'm saying? Well, you can have a guess if you're on tour. But it's nice to have that in your actual life as well, as you know, I get it. Are you a supplement guide? You take supplements? Yeah, I do, actually. I've been through a lot of different ones, but right now, I'm doing... I am eight. Is it? I am eight. It's the one and all in one. Oh, okay. And I do, you know, creating before workout and the protein after... Creatine is actually good just for mental benefits. Creating increases cognitive performance, and it's really good if you're tired. One of the studies that they've shown is that people that have sleep deficit, like if you sleep-deprived, that one of the very best things for a performance, mental performance, is creatine. Oh. Yeah. So you take it before you work out.

58:34Oh, right. Anyway, this sort of gets... It's good for just overall metabolic health, but taking it just as a regular part of your day, pre-your-post workout doesn't matter. Just taking it as a regular part of your day will increase your mental performance. But like, if I'm flying and if I have to go somewhere and I'm on the road and I might be tired, I take it every day anyway, but I bring it with me everywhere. And like routinely, if I'm tired and I know I'm gonna be tired, I take creatine, I can soar through. Really? Yes. Does it feel it right away? It completely mitigates any of the sleep deficit, brain fog. How much do you take? I take 10 milligrams twice a day, or 10 grams rather twice a day. So I take 10 grams in the morning and I take 10 grams at night. That's how I usually do it. Me, I eat mostly protein. My diet is like 90% meat. That's mostly what I eat. Yeah, I eat meat and fermented vegetables. I'll fuck around and have a sandwich or a slice of pizza or some pasta.

59:35Like last night I had chicken parmesan. That was great. But most of my diet, like 80% to 90% is meat. Yeah. Which is chicken off the menu. Why? I had chickens when I was a kid that I named. And then we ate them. I have chickens now and I still eat them. I don't eat my chickens, my chickens are pets. They're wandered around the yard. I talked to them, I'm like, hey ladies. That's what we used to do. I had only my dad every Sunday. And I was like a kid. Oh, I want to jump his head up dad. So I eat, throw it and it would like flap around and then take them and he dropped, we had this laundry room and he throw it in the laundry room and like hot water in the laundry room to get the feathers would come out easier. And that smell, I walked into a grouped dinner somewhere and they were having chicken and that smell came back to me about when I was about 30 and I have not been able to touch chicken ever since.

1:00:36Really? Wow, I have no problem eating chickens. I know, it'd be much easier for me. I eat turkey which is weird because it's not much different, right? It's just a little stupider. But I just thought of chicken, I just can't, man. I just can't. You think turkeys are stupider than chickens? They're the ones, not the ones that are drawn if they hold their, look up at the rain and then, rain will drown them. Really? Oh, they're stupid, man. Well, they're very cautious. They have very good eyesight. I've turkey hunted before. It's like, oh really? Oh, while turkey's maybe different from, you know, I'm sure they are. I mean, if they're wild, they're probably well, they are. Well, they are. There's a lot of them in my neighborhood, actually. But they are, they see really well. You can't move at all if you know you're turkey hunting. You have to be very cautious. Wow. Yeah, they have some of the best eyesight of any wild animal. Really? Yeah. Yeah, that's why they see guys and they turkey hunt. They have these crazy gilly suits where they're completely

1:01:37covered. And they sit with like, they're back to a tree with like, completely motionless. And then, and they usually have like a fake turkey, like a turkey decoy sitting out there. And they make noise like, I'd probably not go to the tent. I'd probably rather not go turkey hunting if that's what I got to do. You'd probably like to go turkey hunting. I'd probably not go to any. I'd probably just sit there and go, yeah, you have like a little box. And I have this little box and it has like, it's almost like a fiddle. And it makes this turkey noise. It makes this turkey noise. Yeah. And you've done that? Yeah, I've only done it one. The thing about it is, my thought was we hunted for a few days for one meal. And I'm like, I would rather go deer hunting or elk hunting or a bunch of months and months of food. And, you know, and it's better food. Like, I'd rather way rather eat elk than I would turkey. There's nothing wrong with wild turkey and I certainly would do it again. It's just not what I prefer. I prefer mammals, I eat mammals.

1:02:37I think they're better for you. They're more nutrient dense. There's a lot more iron and a lot more amino acids and all the... Have you had kangaroo? I have had kangaroo, I think. I think I had it when I was in Australia. Let me make sure I did. No. I've had, I've had ostrich a bunch of times. Eat, eat me. I haven't had an e-moo. I don't think they, I don't know if I've had kangaroo. It was so long that the last time I was in Australia, maybe I did. It's gamey. But I have some friends that live over there and they've had a bunch of times. Oh, yeah. There's an infestation. Australia is crazy. How many kangaroos? More camels in Australia now but there are in like, you know, any of the Arab states. That's not... But kangaroos for sure. And they have rabbit that infestations. Yeah. They bring it, except for the kangaroos. Everything's imported, you know? The kangaroos are like, you know, you've seen the videos among the golf course. Yeah. They come up and steer it. You want to go back up all? It's freaking hilarious.

1:03:38Well, I've seen these videos of these fields where you have like thousands of kangaroos bouncing down these fields. That's a wild look. That's a wild, there's so many wild animals in Australia. I didn't appreciate it when I lived there. But it's pretty freaky. They brought, they're in Captain Cook, who you know, supposedly discovered Australia, brought back a platypus to England. They thought it was... They thought it's just a together from three different animals because had a duck bill, a body like a beaver, you know, a body like a... You know, I guess like a beaver. Like a beaver. And a web feet and a laid eggs. And they thought, oh, this is not a real animal. Well, it doesn't seem like a real animal. Such strange. Everything kills you in Australia. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have a good buddy, my friend, Adam Greentree, he lives there. And it's... There's so many weird things they've done in Australia by bringing in invasive animals to cantoads. Yeah. They brought in a bunch of cats to deal

1:04:39with a bunch of different animals. Then the cats wanted to kill me. All the native stuff. They brought in a very tough thing in for that. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, the cantoads where they brought in to get rid of the rats in the cane fields. And now they're the problem. Yeah. Like everywhere. They did that with rabbits. The English brought the rabbits in because they wanted, you know, for food and they're friggin' everywhere now. Yeah, Australia is very strange in that a giant percentage of the animals that are there are completely invasive. Yeah. The Asian water buffaloes they have. Do they? Yeah, the North Territory. Yeah. The ones that kill you are all the local ones. Well, those water buffaloes that kill you too. Yeah. A huge. But they're massive and they're everywhere. And, you know, they... The only way they die is by people hunting them. Yeah. These are just... Well, I got a call of kangaroos too. It was just, you know, I mean, I would, you'd often see kangaroos lying on the side of the road out in the bush because you get hit by a car with demolish your car.

1:05:39Oh, yeah. Some of them are huge. And you said you're seeing a guy defending his dog with the... Yeah, we punched it. He's lucky that kangaroo didn't fuck him up. Oh, no. If they get... The red kangaroos can stand on their tails and with their back legs, they can disembowel a guy. Those are the big ones, right? Some of those get like six feet tall. Yeah, what do they say? They're like deer that went to prison. That's a good way to describe it. Do you live in America now? What's that? You live in America now? Yeah, yeah. I'm a citizen. I became a citizen a bunch of years ago because I love this country and because I wanted to be available for jury duty. Have you done that yet? Yeah, I have actually. I must have been weird for people. You know, you're getting trotters. I fucking rick's brain field. Holy shit, dude, I'm a fan. Please make me not guilty. Yeah, don't convict me. I'm a fan, man. I didn't get selected because I was actually

1:06:42in a lawsuit at the time with this woman who claimed that we called it buttgate. I'd hit her with my ass. Well, because I go in the audience sometimes and she said I'd hit her with my butt and she'd fallen and heard a brain or something. So it was obviously bullshit. So they called me back twice to New Jersey to testify because I wasn't going to go down, pay this woman money to go, well, I was going to fight it. And how much did she want? She didn't have a figure because it didn't get that far. I was still to find out who would win the case first of all. And so, yeah, it was like, what was I talking about? Now, totally lost. See, it's all this space shit. Oh, buttgate. This room is distracted. It's very distracted. I love the whole year of following, man. Thank you. Anyway, I forget where it was. What was talking about? And you had to go back to go back.

1:07:43And it was, it was a, oh, that's how you got out of jury duty. What's that? You were talking about jury duty. Yeah, right. And that's right. I was called up for jury. See, called up for, you used to this room. I'm not. I'm used to this room too. Yeah. And I was called up for jury duty. I said, and they said, was there any reason you wouldn't, you would be, you know, not else but this. And I said, I just got called up. I mean, I just got in a lawsuit myself. And I think it's all bullshit. And they said, you're out of here. So it was great. It was good timing. Yeah. But no, that's not the reason I became a citizen. I make that, that's a joke. I just, I mean, I, it's actually because if I go first, or if my wife goes first, I'd get screwed by taxes. You mean die first? Is that what you do? Yeah. I'm always saying, you know, I'm going to go first. I don't want to be the one left. Oh, that's funny.

1:08:44Well, the last thing I'm worried about if I, she goes first or I go first as taxes. Yeah. No, I know, but I mean, no, that's not why we talk about it. That's why I became a citizen was for the tax thing. But yeah, no, it's what year was that when did you become a citizen? Um, 10 years ago, from 10 years ago. And were you living over here the entire time? Yeah, yeah, I've been here since 72. I mean, except for the trips back, you know, to meet Elvis on the plane. It was, it was, yeah, I've been here, you know, since 72, basically, living here. Just for your career. Yeah, well, I mean, this is my life. My family's here. My, my friends are here. My life is here. Now, yeah, I used to go back to Australia until my mom died. My mom lived till she was 96. So I'm hoping some of those genetics are in there. I am curious to see how long Met can keep cracking. Because how long does he know? Not this is how long Keith can keep. Right. That's the funny one, right?

1:09:44Because Keith does not do any of the things that Mick is doing. He's still shredding. He was shredding. And beer and drink beer, smoke and cigarettes, doing acid. I did a movie with, which we shall not name, but it was with his girlfriend who was petty assing at the time. He's a girlfriend of the time. He's his wife now. And we got along really well, right? And so Keith came down to the set to find out what was going on. This Springfield guy and his girlfriend. And he was, he looked like fucking Dracula. It was like 83 or something. And as we took photos and he looked so bizarre. He was going, and yet here he is. Yeah, here he's still cooking. Everyone's gone, yeah, it's got to be this year. He'll be gone. No. And all these, you know, Bowie's gone. My God, that one hurt Bowie gone. Yeah. That's a point. Bowie was a lifelong smoker and who's okay, you know? It's amazing.

1:10:44But I mean, it's got to, something's got to be said for the love of what you do, and that energy keeping you alive, and the fact that there's still, like I said, the circuit of the America show is over 100,000 people. I mean, they're still drawing giant crowds. Who is that now? The stones. The circuit of the America's is the local racetrack. Okay. So, circuit of the America's is where they do Formula 1's, they use racetrack, and they also have a giant theater out there, an amphitheater, and then they do concerts out there where they have this massive concert venue. Like for huge acts, like Post-Belone was there, it was like 100,000 M&M was there. It's just a giant performance theater, but seeing the stones there and seeing Keith there, if he gets to do that all the time, just the energy from that is probably what's sustaining that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's really, really important for your longevity that you love what you do. Yeah. I think that has been the big driver for me, and I've seen it in other people, and certainly in someone like Mick Jagger, he admits he still loves that the roar of the crowd.

1:11:48And so many people, like I have friends who did a job because the retirement was good. And I get that, but they don't love the job. It's just something that they do. We're fortunate that we do something that we love. Insanely fortunate. Yeah. I mean, it's very rare. It's a lot of luck. It really is a lot of luck. I don't deny that. It's luck with everybody when they're lucky enough to do a shooting still. Yes, yes, you did. Oh, that's free. Sorry. I'm going to fly space. I should have told you. I told you that it does that. I've had a lot of people just go. What was going on? Yeah. We have shooting stars on our ceiling. Yeah. That's freaking. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a lot of luck, but it's also working really hard to make that luck so that when if luck does happen, you're ready for it.

1:12:51Exactly. And being able to capitalize on that luck, so many people get so terrified of the unknown and the possibility of success that the anxiety of whatever it is, they can't handle it. And they'd rather just live a simple life and not have the pressure. Fear of success is a real thing. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. Fear of success and maybe even more fear of failing to succeed when you're attempting to succeed. Yeah. Yeah, that cripples people. Yeah. Now, I get that totally. Yeah. And it does hurt when things don't go your way, but it still drives me. You know, it's so, I mean, there's still things I want to do. And I think that's, you know, I mean, I love playing, but I do that. That's kind of my day job, you know, but the outside, extracurricular stuff is stuff. What do you do extracurricular? I write, I've had a couple of novels out.

1:13:51I wrote one on autobiography. I'm writing a book on just, you know, what I've done with my life to, you know, be where I am, you know, health wise and everything. Yeah, I do. And just, you know, there's all kinds of things on the side that you can do that, and I just love to write. I mean, I consider myself a writer really before anything. I only started performing because no one would do my songs. I'm stuck at all doing my own. For real? That's crazy. I used to be in a band. If you go on YouTube and you look up Zoot, Z-O-O-T and look up Ellen O'Rigby, I was the guitar player in this band. It was like a four piece band. And I arranged this version of Ellen O'Rigby that was, it's, to me, now it sounds like Black Sabbath, although I'd never heard Black Sabbath back then. But it's, a lot of, like I did Billy Corgans thing and he was like focused on this band

1:14:55because we were kind of like psychedelic before, as that was just starting, you know. Oh, there it is, yeah. Wow. And that, he became part of a form, Little River Band, actually, the bass player. What year is this? And that was our singer. He passed away a few years ago. But it was a great band, it was, as me. Look at you, dude. What year is this? 69, 70? Wow. Yeah, it was kind of very heavy. It was much heavier stuff than I'm doing now. Well, maybe not now, that it was, they'd been a pop band and they dressed in pink and I'd been in a band and my band split up because I got to sing the single and the bass player was so pissed off they didn't pick him that he broke the band up. So I was a free agent and they said, well, you want to join us because I just, our play is leaving. So I said, okay, so I wore the pink thing for a while and I said, this is gotta go.

1:15:55You could deal with pink. Yeah. There's photos, there's horrible. But so I said, I got this great idea. Well, we'll get rid of the pink and we'll deal with photo of us, like looking over our shoulder, totally naked, like, you know, our original pink suits and we dumped the pink thing. So, but we'll have a high contrast so they won't really see anything. But they printed the photo like full on. Oh, there we are. So what was up with the pink thing? Why? They had a theme called think pink, think zoot and it was good for the little girls. It was like, you know, yeah, oh, I'm so pissed at that album. That was the first album, the only album we did and they cut out our heads to stick them out. That was before Photoshop and they miscut my hair. And you know, like a granny haircut. It was horrible. What a horrible album cover. One of the worst ever made, I think. Well, at least you weren't wearing pink. So, but that was such a weird choice that that was a part of the theme.

1:16:55It was, yeah, it was, it was this guy in Australia that thought it would be a great, I caught on for a while, but I find it very strange. Yeah, six months. There's about six months, life of six months and then everyone got sick of it. So I thought, say we've got to lose that. So we had this photo taken and I printed a full color of our bare asses and my mom lost her shit when she saw it. Oh, Richard, how could you do that? I said, no, mom, it's supposed to be like, high contrast. You were supposed to see all the creases and stuff. And you can still see it. It's still online. The photo still online. Oh, I got to see that. I got to see that. Every now and then I get to sign when it's, oh, that's funny. I'm pretty much like, you put our core fans bringing that. That's funny. They must know it. It probably bugs you too. Oh, it's pretty bad. So I pushed them more though, because Led Zeppelin was on the horizon and I pushed them more into the guitar. You know, I've got to play guitar and I wanted the guitar to be the kind of the center of the thing. So I pushed him into a much heavier thing and this Elna Rigby was, was our first really

1:17:56big hit that we had over there that I arranged. It was like, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, kind of thing. And we actually got a deal. We had an EMI, we're interested in this over here. But I managed to kind of screw this by saying, oh, you still under contract here, which we weren't in Australia. Anyway, so we split up and I came over here and B went on to form a little river band. And this singer became a TV star in Australia. Oh, wow. So it was a, we all went on to other things, you know. And it was, uh, guy, you've had such a great run, man. You've done so many different things. Yeah, I look back and I guess I have. I've, I've, I've, I always sort of be a band guy, you know, and I had this, when they split up, I, I said, I'll just join another band. But I had this writer, woman writer who was a big fan and she said, no, you got to go solo. I said, I don't want to go solo and she said, no, you got to, you got to go solo.

1:18:58How did she say that? I don't know. She just thought it was the next step for me, you know, she thought getting back in another band and being the guitar player was, she said, I, she thought I had more to offer, you know, more going for me in a better career if I, if I went solo. So I released this, speak to the sky song that I wrote for my mommy. No, it became a hit. And though that got me the deal over here and, you know, when they were signing everybody in the 70s. So it was the weird time. When you're the zoot time, 1969, such a strange time musically. It was changing pretty drastically. Well, I mean, I always point to the difference between 59 and 69 is being like one of the most radical changes in culture and music in, in all of human history. It's such a strange, if you go like from Buddy Holly to Jimmy Hendrix, I mean, is there a more radical transformation of rock and roll music than that time? Like there was something amazing.

1:19:59A lot of it was the drugs for sure. It was the whole psychedelic movement. It was the anti-war movement. It was, yeah, it was definitely sociological. And I think music is always driven by what, what happens. And it drives what happens, too. I mean, the, a lot of people think that it, I think it's, becomes a soundtrack of what's happening. I think more that, that society drives what's happening in music. And then they adopt what the music is, you know, we got a tune, you know, and it shows what we, what we're, but it's, you're talking about 59 and you're talking about 69 where the changes happen. Yeah. Well, that 10 year period is just massive. Yeah, yeah. It is just an incredible transformation between the 50s and the 60s. Yeah, it was, and that was considered kind of a disposable, you know, well, that's the kids do that. And by 69 and 70, it was suddenly, it had this more, more weight, you know, and, and people

1:21:00got older and they were now almost adults and they still liked it. Yes. Well, it's also that music has had a shelf life that is above and beyond anything that came after it. Like stuff from, like there's a lot of rock and roll music from the 80s that just, you know, doesn't have the same feeling as like cashmere, you know what I mean? Like if you go and listen to a whole lot of love, like to this day when whole lot of love comes on, I'm like, oh, turn that up. Turn that up. Turn that up. They were the originators of that. I mean, they would really push that, that whole, his idea to get the kind of the bluesy singer. Yeah. The blues riffs and that was, it was all his idea and, and it was so friggin unique and, like you want to Terry Reed, you know Terry Femini, Terry Reed. No. He's a great English singer. I think he's passed now. I hope I'm not wrong in saying that because I hate it when they say, oh, Rick Springfield's dead.

1:22:00You know, you look up someone, the first thing that comes up on Google is, is so and so dead, right? Right. Anybody, especially when you get older. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, so it was amazing. And, Terry Reed had his great voice, but he was going to actually tour with the stones. And Jimmy Page asked him if he'd be the singer and let's up. And he said, I can. I got this gig coming up with the stones, but I know this guy, there's this guy down in this club. And it was friggin' Robert Plant and John Bottom in the same band. Wow. In a pub band. And Jimmy Page walked in and he goes, they might be the right ones. But, how amazing. I mean, Bottom, one of the, you know, just a unique feel. He wasn't just a drummer. He was just an incredible, he had sonically, he was different. And the sound of his drums, what he did with them was unique. His feel was just so laid back, but so right on. And it was just in the same band as Plant.

1:23:01And it was like, that's crazy. That is crazy. Like a little club band. And you know, music has more weight, certain music has more weight. And I think England is always amazing because this little tiny friggin' island, the Beatles, the Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Who, the Claptains. Yeah. Well, Claptin' actually was Canadian. Was he really? Yeah. He's born in Canada. Oh, I thought he was for England. Or he had Canadian parents or something. But he was a foreign. England? I bet he is, right? I like it when he... He's born there, yes. What? He's born in the UK. He's born in the UK and... He's a Canadian parent, right? Let's see. Am I right on that? I'm right on that, aren't I? Hey. Hey. I'm right on that, aren't I? Hey. Hey. I'm born to Canadian soldier from a chocolate bag. Ah, there you go. Anyway, but the little island that had all these amazing bands.

1:24:01Incredible. I think it's because everyone wanted to conquer Britain. The Romans, the Vikings, they all came in. The Germans, they all came in and spread their seed. First thing they did was, you know, have sex with the game. And I think all that all that came together. And I think that's a lot of reason there are so many great bands. It's a collection of all this genetic material from Europe and all around. And the Romans, I mean, look what they did. Yeah. But it is interesting how Europe, if you look at it, the UK uniquely contributed to music. I suppose all those other countries, obviously they're English speaking, which helps how it spreads the word. It's kind of amazing how much of an impact they had in America. I mean, and how much, how long it didn't have an impact, you know, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was bottled up for so long.

1:25:03I think that it exploded so much with the beetles. It was never, it never crossed the Atlantic. It was always America, same with Australia. It was always America to England. That was America. It was Australia. There was one Australian guy that had a hit when I was a kid in England in school named Ralph Harris called, uh, Timie Kangaroo Downsport. Timie Kangaroo Downsport. Timie Kangaroo Down, horrible song, but it was a huge hit in England. And it was the only one that ever came over from Australia. And the same with England. There was really nothing that crossed over. And then suddenly Kennedy, Kennedy was killed and America was looking away from America. They didn't want to look, I think, was a big part of the, with the beetles. They didn't want to look at America right at that point. Suddenly here were these four mop tops and they came and smiled and sang great music and took out attention away from, you know, darkness. Well, they were, they're probably the first real super band, right?

1:26:07The beetles? Yeah. That was just so huge that people would faint when they saw them and just scream when they saw them. I used to faint for Frank Sinatra. That's true. I used to faint for Mozart. I mean, they were, you know, they had groupies. It would pass out. They thought they were so hot. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were pop stars, you know, they were pop stars back then. But it wasn't on television. It wasn't all on the radio. I mean, radio. You know, you have a friggin' opinion and now you can put it out there and... Welcome to the show. Yeah. That's what it is. Exactly. Yeah. It's just, it must have been very strange to be the first global super group like that. I think, yeah. I don't think there was any. I think Elvis was probably the first super famous individual where I mean, he got to a point.

1:27:07First of all, I think that level of fame is almost unsustainable for a human being. I think it's just too crazy. I don't think it's manageable. And especially when there was no roadmap. And he was the first, yeah. He was the first. And then Michael Jackson was like, hold my beer. I'll show you the next level, this shit. Michael Jackson took it to a place that was totally agree. Totally agree. Totally agree. Unbelievable. I mean, I'm just young, but the Jackson 5 and Beatles most of it. And often 64 is crazy. Sixty four. Wow. Mark McCartney was 22 and Harrison was 21. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Do you think about what you were doing at 21? Wow. And Jackson 5 is same time. Wow. Sixty four. The Jackson 5. Wow. I guess they were. I mean, it took a year or two. I guess before they got famous, but still same time. Amazing. Yeah, I just saw this was it. Is it? This is it. Oh, the Michael Jackson documentary. Yeah, where he's preparing for the show.

1:28:08Yeah. It's pretty wild. It's just amazing. I mean, you see him just kind of going through it like, you know, like it's nothing. I mean, he's cutting back, but he's still doing, you know, he knows what he's doing. And just he did seem kind of weak to me. I didn't know if he could sustain all of that by that point, but God, he was amazing. Well, I think the pressure and the stress was probably just so overwhelming for him. Unbelievable. That guy couldn't go anywhere. He would get swarmed to like like no one ever. Is people loved him in a way. He was so big that I don't know if you're familiar with Boston radio, but they had a WC. I think it was WC OZ, Rocka Boston. It was like the big Boston Rock and Roll station. And when Thriller came out, it was such a big album. They go, look, I know the DJ goes, I know this isn't Rock and Roll, but this is so awesome. I'm going to play it anyway.

1:29:09And I think it was Billy Jean, they played. And I remember like thinking, this is crazy. They're playing this on the Rock of Boston. Like this is nuts, but it was that big. It was that big. It transcended everything. Well, they wouldn't let him on MTV, right? They wouldn't play it. They said, we don't play. We can't, you know, they were saying, come on, this is huge. You got to play it. Why wouldn't they play? We don't play Black artists. Really? Yeah, initially. And I forget who it was, one of the Atlantic, someone Atlantic, I'm it, or somebody called up and said, if you don't play this song and then Billy Jean on the next 10 minutes, we're pulling all our artists and they played it. And that was it. That was just... That's crazy. Yeah. Because Thriller was obviously the biggest music video of all time. It was a film. I mean, he got Rick Baker, the guy who did the American World Wolf and London, you know, I know you're a horror fan.

1:30:12That wolf outside, by the way, we have two of those. Yes. And they're supposed to defoto me with my arm in that guy. The reason why we have two of those is because Rick Baker saw the original one that Pat McGee did that we had back here and he said the proportions were wrong. So Pat McGee, the guy who made that for me, said, I'm going to make another one that has the right proportions. So Rick Baker saw that one? Yes. Oh, that's crazy. And my studio did my podcast and said, that's great, but the legs are too long, the body's too long. This is the wrong proportions. And Pat McGee went crazy, he's like, fuck! And so he made another one. And then the new one that he made, though, is even better because it's all animal hair. Yeah, it's incredible. I'll show you the other one. The other one. Oh, you got the other one. The one not still good one. Right. It's in the other room. I still have both of them. But he saw... She don't get rid of wolves. Nope. I've been out of give it to someone cool. But he did the special effects for Thriller when he turns into that cat monster thing. Like, he turns into the girl screams.

1:31:13And then he says, oh, I'm being like, that fucking video was crazy. I remember everybody waiting for the premiere. All my friends in high school waiting around the TV for the premiere. It was incredible. There was nothing like it. And he was a superstar in a way that, I don't think anybody's ever income close, maybe Taylor Swift. Like, maybe she's in that sort of realm now. I mean, I think it's Elvis Beatles and Michael Jackson with a three that absolutely transcend. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's been people as famous, but they did something so different. You know, first of all, Elvis was Elvis. Yeah. And the Beatles, they wrote the best songs. There's not many songs left to write now because the Beatles wrote them all. Right. And Michael Jackson did that. Well, they also had such a different range of music. You know, you go from love, love, me, do to the rich. Oh, it's so fast they grew.

1:32:13Oh, yeah. That's just, I mean, I don't even know if that's possible anymore because the audience is so fragmented now. Back then it was, you know, your parents or you and your friends. There was nothing in between. There was no, now it's like, well, if you're 13, you're like, you know, I'm like, you know, K-pop, if you're, you know, 15, 16, you're like this, if you're like heavy self, then there's this. And everyone's, it's so fragmented, there's not like us against them anymore. Right. Right. And so I don't know if it allows for, I think Taylor Swift is actually the first one to really get that amount of gigantic following. And I, it seems to be a lot of like young girls still. Yes. But I mean, I like a lot of the songs. I think she's a great writer, lyrically. I think the girls are killing it and pop right now. I mean, you know, I miss rock and roll on the radio for sure.

1:33:16It's weird that rock and roll is kind of faded. What's that? It's weird that rock and roll has kind of faded. I never thought the guitar would kind of become uncool. I thought once we got through disco where it was just, we were in the background. And suddenly there was ACD and you go, oh, so God, the guitar's back. You know, yeah, I will never leave. It's left again, unfortunately, but hopefully it'll, you know, I'd know if I'd come back, I think. The windows open. What's that? The window is open. I think I still love the old music. Yeah, yeah, but there's, I mean, I hear great stuff from rock band still, you know, but you don't hear it unless someone sends it to you really. Yeah. Or there's a specific rock, you know, like I didn't know where you hear, you know, you do food fighters other than you certainly don't hear it on, you know, the AM stations anymore. Do you? Are there even AM stations? Yes, I know. I mean, I know what even plays FM is what played real, played big music in this country. But I mean, there's no real radio presence anymore as far as I don't know of any, my mechanic

1:34:20still listens to FM music. I know that because when he fixes my car, when I get it back, the radio's on the local FM rock station. But it's all like there's no DJs anymore. And if there is a DJ, they don't have control of the music anymore. Exactly right. And Jesse's girl was a, was a product of the DJs. It was released as a single. Really? Yeah, it was back when the DJs, if they liked a song, they, they play it. They said, I like this song. They put this on and they started doing that with Jesse's girl and they started getting a lot of phones and they called up the record, the record company said, you probably should put this out of the single. It was getting a lot of phones and the record company goes, oh, okay, so they put it out. But it wasn't their choice. I mean, it was, it was actually, on then, back then, it was, RCA was me and Elvis. That was pretty much it. Wow. It was all, old Elvis and, you know, what year was Jesse's girl? 81, 80, 80, 81? 81. 81.

1:35:2081. 81. 81. I throw it over to our, my show at the controls over there. Yeah, I was a freshman in high school. Yeah. Wow. I was 14 years old when that song came out. Oh my God, really? Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. What was that like for you? That had to be insane because that song was so giant. Every girl in my high school was in love with you. It must have been nuts. Yeah, it was, it was, I mean, I, I was 29, 30 by the time that happened, 31 and I, I was, I'd imagined it for so long because I'm very, one of the things I really believe in is, you know, I'm sure you do to manifestation, believing, you know, visualization, seeing, seeing what you want and, and committing to it. And I'm, and I'd seen it so much, so many times in my head that when it happened, I went, yeah, that's how it, that's how it is. Okay. Really? So you expected it. Yeah. I always expected something. I knew something would happen and I had faith.

1:36:21You know, I would, there was times when I was, because of the teen magazines, I get letters sometimes, I can't wait to come over and meet you and, and visit you in your mansion. And at the time, I was living in a $180 a month apartment in a city area of Hollywood, eating TV man dinners and fishing, you know, quarters out of my goofy piggy banks or I could go down and, you know, buy milk. So yeah, it was, it was quite a dichotomy, you might say. So when it first started happening, it started happening because of DJs and how long was that before it became like a massive hit? It was quite a, quite a haul. It was actually a long time on the charts crawling up and it was, I thought I should never get to make it, you know, what's going so slow? Usually they go boom, boom, boom. Right. Crawled and crawled and crawled and crawled. And I remember Joe Guthrie, who owns Sound City, which is one of the reasons that I happen

1:37:25to be in the, in the Dave Grohl Sound City documentary, was because I was, I hang out there all the time. And, and he came in with this cheap bottle of champagne and said, we're just made number one. Wow. And it was, yeah, it was a long time that it climbed and they weren't going to release it. I actually, I took general hospital because I didn't think they were going to release the album. That's right. I forgot you were on general hospital. You were on a fucking soap opera. Fucking soap opera. And it was, by the way, the biggest soap opera. Well, it happened to be. The whole Luke and Thorough thing was crazy. Yeah. It was the biggest soap opera's ever got. And I just happened to be on it that summer. And it was, but I got this guy called me out. I just, I hadn't worked as an actor in like nine months. And this guy called me up and he'd seen me for a, they were trying to email Charlie's Angels. Thankfully, thankfully I didn't get that and that didn't work out.

1:38:26But I'd gone up an audition for it, right? And it didn't work out. But this guy obviously remembered me. And he, he called up my agent who hadn't done a fucking thing for me in 12 months and said, I remember this guy, Springfield, we'd like to see him for this part on general hospital. And I said, general fucking soap opera. I don't want to do that. And he said, go on, just go in and I'm thinking, well, it's mostly old ladies ironing in the afternoon. I still can have any effect of my music career. I guess because they totally, you know, apples and oranges. So I went up and I wasn't interested that interested in it. And I did the reading and then he calls up and says, you got the part. And Keith Olson, who was a big producer at the time and who produced Jesse's girl, he done me a favor because he was, because the sound city connection, he'd done a Cleveland Mac and Pat Benatar and, forner and a lot of big hits. And so I said, I'll do a favor for Joe and all. And he actually cut together my very first album.

1:39:27He'd been a guy that cut all the clicks out of my first album where they punched me in the vocals. And so he did that. And he said, you don't need to do this. This is a great record. You don't need to do the soap opera. And I said, I didn't know. Man, I've had four albums and they've done nothing. So I don't know what this one's going to do. So I had no money. I said, I'm going to take it for the money because it was 500 bucks an episode. It was like mind blowing money to me back then. I've never seen regular money and I've never seen that much record. That was a hell of a lot of money to me back in 1980. So I said, I'm going to take this show. So I took it and the record company was not releasing the album. Oh God, it's going to happen again. It's going to hit 100 in the top 100 and go away because it was disco and there were ballads on the right there. They didn't know what to do with the guitar based pop record. So they finally released it. And that the whole DJ thing happened.

1:40:28What was the single that they released? What was that? What were the singles that they released from that album? I released up and everything for you actually because Sammy was a known quantity and I wasn't you know. And it didn't do that Sammy Hager? Yes, Sammy. That's right. Yeah, he wrote it and Keith worked with Keith also had worked with Sammy on a bunch of his solo albums and he really liked the song and he said, I'll do two songs just bring field. So he picked one of mine, just he's going up. I had my demos that I'd done on my little four track and I was pissed that he didn't pick a second one. He said, I want to bring an outside song in. I went off the fuck. Because I'm a writer. I wanted to do my songs. And he brought this song in. I went, okay, you know, he must know what he's talking about. He's got a lot of hits and everything. So I did it and it was happened to be the right second song. It was absolutely the right second song. But that was the first one and then I thought, oh, and then they picked Jesse's girl.

1:41:30So fortunately, it was the DJ's call and I'm forever thankful for that. And I don't know what would have happened if they hadn't picked it or if they were still like now, they were on, you know, you play these ten songs and that's what you don't deviate. Well it seems like now it's all sort of pre-programmed by executives and just decide what is going to be pushed and what's going to be famous. Yeah. I mean, I don't really understand it. I don't know if anybody does why some are pushed in others aren't. But well, there's no taste makers anymore. That's the thing. Without DJ's, without Wolfman Jack and these big DJ guys, he was awesome. He was so guy, I didn't interview with him with my first album. I said, this is a song about a woman, a guy that commits suicide. Oh, I don't think so. Not in my radio station. He puts it on and he listens to it and he ends up playing it.

1:42:31That was really great. We actually got along really well and he would introduce me occasionally at shows and things. He's a lovely guy. Funny as hell, man. Well, there were taste makers back then. Yeah. There were people that you believed in that were DJ's that were cool and could call it. Yeah. And they were kind of cool guys who liked cool things. They had personalities. Yeah. People, you know, yeah. They had personalities and they were interesting to listen to and they would tell you why like you're going to dig this and they would play it and you're like, what is this? And they notes you about the songs. Yeah. They were real music aficionados and they were sort of like the syscal and ebert of music. They would tell you what was cool and slowly but surely that all just completely went away. And they would name it DJ currently and I think that's nuts. When I was a kid that you knew every Mark Peranto and all these different people and Charles Lockwood era, those are the guys in Boston. Everybody knew who they were. And it was a national thing and every city they had your morning DJ guy.

1:43:35You know, and these morning. And all these guys would play Kevin and Bean and L.A. And all these guys would play cool music and they knew cool stuff. And it was like, you know, you learned about culture from these people pre-internet. They were the taste makers. Yeah. It's trippy. I mean, I don't know how you fall in love with an artist anymore, you know, because I, you know, it's an old story. You get the record. You open it up and as it's playing, you read whose plan? What? Who wrote what and you read about them? Yeah. And I remember years ago, I had a copy of the record. Like a no doubt CD or something anyway. And this young girl's daughter, friend of mine, I said, oh, I got the no doubt CD, the new CD. If you want to say, oh, no, it's okay. I download it. Well, you got the album covering everything. He said, no, it's okay. I just download it. And now it's weird. It's weird. You know, it's weird. Yeah. Yeah. I used to buy albums based on the cover. Yeah. I'd go to the record store and I'd like to go.

1:44:36I know. I know. It's impossible. You go and see an album. And I'm like, wow, this looks cool. You have cool artwork. You can open it up. He knows it. He knows it. He knows it. He knows it. Whatever they are, they've spelled it. Oh, that was brilliant. And look at the pink Floyd wine. It's still an epic image. Yeah. Yeah. Still, you see it everywhere. You know. Well, when I was a kid, my uncle Vinny was, he was an artist and he worked for Howard Mark's advertising, which was a company that did all of the album covers for Kiss. And so when I was a kid, I was really young. Oh, I was like seven or something like that. I got to see, I got to go to his office with him and he would take me around and, you know, I was even before anybody did. I met Ace Freely with no makeup on. Back, it was the craziest thing I'd ever seen in my life. I was like, here's no makeup on. This is not, this is back before Kiss had taken the makeup. It was so insane. He came into the office and it was like, what's up, A.C.

1:45:38I was like, what? That's him because I was, God, I don't remember how old I was. I couldn't have been more than 10. It was so strange to me. I was like, this is crazy. I can't believe he's right there. This is nuts. Not wild, yeah. Actually, I might have been a little older. I might have been a little older or 12. But either way, I was like blown away by it. I couldn't believe it was actually meeting Ace Freely with no makeup on. But their advertisement company would do all the album covers. The album covers were a work of art. There was so much going on inside of them. You would open up the album, this artwork inside. When they had their solo albums, the albums themselves had an image of each individual band member printed on the album. Really? Yes. The album itself. When you look at the record, you saw the image of their faces on the record. It was crazy. Before they came out, I think this is going to be huge. I actually came back to see a set of gig we're doing. I had a photo taken with him.

1:46:39My drummer was a kiss with his beetles. I was selling guitars at the time, like just these red Fernandez, we had a bunch off. He had a sign up. He did the Ace card and everything to Roger, Rock on, whatever, Ace Freely. I copied it exactly onto another one, exactly like that. In the middle of the show, the guitar tech brought it out to me and I smashed the shit out of my back. Oh wow. Roger Lust has certainly got all my... He thought it was a real one. He played so many terrible pranks on us that it was fucking worth it. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. So you kind of knew that eventually it was going to hit. But when it did hit, what was the feeling like to go from being someone you'd been in pop magazines, but then all of a sudden you are the guy.

1:47:41For a year or two, whatever it was in the early 80s, you were so huge, man. I mean, it was crazy. What was that feeling like? It was exciting. It drove me to write more and more. I directed it in the performing and writing. I really don't know what else. I didn't party a lot. We did a little bit on the road, but I directed it into what I was doing. It was exciting. I remember getting on the phone with DJs and saying, oh yeah, the record is going to be here. It's going up and up. It was all real exciting stuff. But it was kind of like I said, I expected it. It was like, oh my God, this is so weird. It was like, yeah, about fucking time. I've been here for 10 years. That's crazy that you totally were comfortable with it and expected it.

1:48:42Yeah, it was, there were like 4,000 fans around a police car trying to tip it over. I was like, okay, this is what it feels like. God, it's a wild. It's a wild that you were like, okay, this is what's happening. It was exciting. I mean, I didn't listen to the excitement, but I prepared myself for it. Do you remember what it was like the first time you started playing the first few chords of Jesse's Girl and the whole crowd knew what it was? Yeah, I do, actually, because I'd seen, what he saw in these English bands in Australia, because they all came to Australia. I saw the stones twice in 65 and 66. I saw the Beatles in 64 and I saw the Kingston, like 65. I saw the Who in 65. They started out with the King's, started out there, there, there, there, there, there, there.

1:49:43The audience went home. Yeah. And then they said, oh man, that is so fucking cool. I want to feel what that's like. Do you remember the first time you felt it? What's that? You remember the first time you felt that? Yeah, and we did the Beach Boys, fourthed July show in the Queen Mary. And I was like the new artist in Long Beach on the bill, yeah, on Long Beach. There was the Beach Boys, three dog night, and I had Brian Wilson was still with the Beach, was come back with the Beach Boys, right? And we started, we were on there, start playing, and the audience went nuts. Oh, and that's it! That's the feeling! And it was so weird, because we came on after the show, after the Beach Boys finish, we walked on stage, right? And Brian Wilson's like a god, right? And I'm walking on stage, he's at the piano, and he goes, he follows me like this, I'm

1:50:45going, this is a broken one, what's he following me for? He was a giant soap opera fan. Him and his wife used to sit all and watch the acting general husband. That's crazy! That's crazy! That's Brian Wilson with his mouth open, following me across the stage. That's when I'm doing the same thing. That's Brian Wilson, holy fuck! Wow! It's pretty, and same thing with Sammy Davis Jr., I was done the first night of 100 stars, and I'm walking along the red carpet, and I feel someone tugging on my jacket. I'm going, what the fuck? I look around at Sammy Davis Jr. Hey man, loving on this show, and I'm going, what the fuck? That was the stuff that was weird for me, was that kind of thing. Like I met Paul McCartney later, like I don't know, maybe 15 years ago, and I went to see him, because I'm a giant fan, and he said, oh, what are you here for?

1:51:46Meaning, obviously, you knew who I was, and what was I coming to the event for, because everyone was announcing new projects. I just said, I'm here to see you. You know, so, and I know no one was taking photos, and I didn't realize it at the time. It's like, why don't you get a photo? So I said, that'll be 10 quid. So I go like they said, no, I'm only joking, I'm only joking. So, we had a photo, it was one of my, I keep that photo, that's a pretty cool photo. Wow, that's awesome. And speaking of album covers, the Sergeant Pepper's cover was, was, oh yeah. I have the, because, um, uh, um, um, um, War of the World, time machine, HG Wells, one of my favorite writers, right? I love, I love sci-fi. I always love HG Wells, they're very political too, and he wrote some great, great, great, um, novels and, and articles about the war and the possibility of atomic war. And I mean, he was really deep guy, and he was one of the cutouts, right?

1:52:46It was HG Wells on the Sergeant Pepper's figure thing, you know, all the cutouts, the heads on the front. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm, sure. And so, I got that actual, HG Wells, I got that actual cutout and Paul had signed it. So I got one of my favorite writers and my favorite artists, and it's a really cool thing to have that in my studio. Wow. The, the people don't understand today, the general hospital thing, general hospital was a soap opera, but it was a soap opera that transcended regular television shows somehow. Yeah, I was not sure. It was still in the summer. Very strange. It was very strange, and it was a completely, it was a organic viral moment. For whatever reason, no idea if still. Never happened again. No, never happened. Only happened once. The most popular soap now has about a third of the viewership that General Hospital had at the time. And it was, you know, like I was on it, I'm, this one, and you're talking about, you

1:53:50know, a new fame and all that kind of stuff. And I was, I was, I had a little house that I bought on BMI advances, because I had a record deal. And it was they don't do anymore. But in Montrose, in, in, in La Crescena, and I'm walking down this street one day, and you know, nobody's looking at me. I'm going, yeah, I'm walking down to two weeks later after being on the show for two weeks. I'm walking down the same street. People are going, isn't that, you know, and it was like so sudden that that was like, you know, it was before MTV. So you had to have at least three albums out before a musician was recognized. So to get it that fast was that was kind of odd. And I wasn't ready for that, for that amount of recognition. Well, it was just so strange. My whole family was watching General Hospital. I was watching it. My sister was watching it. It was like, it was a television show, but it was a soap opera. And soap operas were like housewives watching.

1:54:50Yeah, it was, it was, you know, your cousin in the, you invented the tooth. It was like low production value, shitty writing, bad acting, horrible writing, terrible acting. Something about that Luke and Laura storyline. For whatever reason caught the nation and held it captive. And I believe he raped her and then they became boyfriend and girlfriend. Is that really what the storyline was? And Elizabeth Taylor was on the show too. And I got to do a scene, a couple of scenes with her. And that was weird. I'm walking down the stairs as she's walking up. She goes, no, and then I come going, stop Elizabeth Taylor. No. And we walk, we do a scene and we're walking away together, you know, off to a blank alleyway until they say cut and she goes, this is an acting stupid. And Tony Geary actually did the best thing. He's doing a scene where they're in rehearsal. And he goes, oh my God, it's Elizabeth Taylor.

1:55:55And they were like, yeah, which one we all wanted to say, right? But it's amazing. The people who were fans of the show, it's, it's, you know, crazy. It was literally the biggest show in the country. Yeah. And it was a soap opera and it was on during the day. It made me have sucked. And the writing sucked. And the writing sucked. And the, it was, if you got through the scene, they printed it. Yeah. I mean, I got really good because they handed us a three page scene once, me and a character I was working with. So I was shooting this in 20 minutes. So I got really good. I'd have the camera here and they'd have the words right, you know, coming down the teleprompter. Yeah, the teleprompter down the screen. And a red light. And I got good at looking at them while I was talking. And soon as they went, as soon as I saw the light go off, I'd look at this screen and memorize the words for the next line and look back at them and go, yeah, you know, it

1:56:57wasn't, it wasn't about acting for me then. It was about line memorization. But there were people on it. Like my best friend actually, Doug Davidson was, was on Young and the rest of us. Paul, God, we'll see to the last name. Sorry, Dougie. But anyway, Paul Drake, no, wait. Oh, there's me and Liz. Wow. Yeah, babe. Yeah. Are you going to invite me to do? You want to come? Oh, that was it. Isn't acting stupid. That's the scene. Wow. That's nuts. Isn't acting stupid. That's so crazy. Oh, he was really good. Doug Davidson played Paul Drake. I think that was his time for, sorry, I forgot it. But he was great on it. You know, he would cry and get angry and it was really very, very good. And there are some great people that can do it. Not everybody can. And they pick, you know, they pick young, pretty people who are necessarily the best actors but they have a presence, you know.

1:57:59And I remember walking by the phones when Demi Moore was on the show and they would take calls from everybody and listen to everything and walk by as the woman's going, oh, doesn't like Demi Moore's voice. They would take calls from the audience to find out what they thought about it. They would call in and say, oh, we really like this guy or we don't like this guy or hate this storyline. They'd listen and Gloria Monty was, she was the, oh, Tristan just passed away. He just passed away. He's a good, a cool guy. There's another Ozzy. He's a great, that's crazy. Wow. Lovely guy, funny guy. Is that the main? That's strange. Wow. Yeah, 1982. Wow. Trippy. Trippy. Yeah. That's amazing. I can't believe Elizabeth Taylor is doing a soap opera. That's so strange. Yeah, but there were fans.

1:59:00And it was a big show and it was like, it was like kind of like Baywatch. How Baywatch became this big cultural thing. I remember reading Paul McCartney saying, yeah, my daughter's love Baywatch. I'm going, fuck that, man. It's just so strange that it never happened again. That general hospital moment is like a strange anomaly in culture. It totally was. Yeah. And it was a combination, probably, of the characters. I mean, it was kind of the best of the worst story lines. And there was a lot of characters, good characters, on it. Plus, they were aware by that point that I had a recording career. They wanted me to sing on the show. There it is. There it is. Wow. Tony took us around and we are an answer them. 30 million viewers. Yeah. For Luke and Laura's wedding on general hospital. I mean, what has even come close to that?

2:00:00Yeah. What has even come close to that in terms of soap operas? Is there anything even close? No. No. That was a golden age. Fucking bananas. Yeah. It's kind of insane. Yeah. Yeah. Still have no real explanation, you know? I don't know what time it was on, but I remember it was like right after high school. Yeah. Cancel, rear-range classes in universities, because any of the people wouldn't show up. That's nuts. And I had no idea that these people, you know, they were the same people that would come into concerts. Wow. And I had no idea that there would be any kind of crossover, you know? How crazy is that the guy from general hospital, also, has the number one song in the country? Yeah. I know you had no idea. I don't know the show for like six weeks in Gloria, the producer, who was really responsible for the success of it. She was so smart. Her and Tony used to get together and go over the scripts at night and, you know, that

2:01:01is something to do with it. And she came up and said, I hear you're also a singer. I mean, yeah. I was not happening on this show. I've already got enough shit that I'm on the show. So. Oh, they wanted you to sing on the show? Oh, God. I did. I did as kind of a call back later on, way later on, you know, after I'd left the show and then I came back for like the 50th anniversary or something and did. But yeah, when it was, you know, she wanted me to like go up there and sing Jessie's girl. It was a doctor suddenly. You know, that will make it work, you know? How weird must it have been for those Luke and Laura actors? Because like, no one had ever done that before. No, no soap operative ever gotten that huge before. And then after it was over, nothing. I've been a girl who played Laura was 21. It still lived at home. Wow. That's it. That's she was 21 and still lived at home at the time. Yeah. Wow, wasn't allowed to drink the bubbly because she was under age. How was she under age? Oh, not even 21.

2:02:01It says not even 21. Oh, not even not yet 21. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that didn't stop him from getting drinks. We got so drunk on the set. We had a party. There was supposed to be this party. And the professor from Gilligan's Island played my father. I'm going, wow, that's fucking cool. And we're sitting around this and we're supposed to be drinking and we all drank. And it was so bad. They had to reshoot at the next day. You're all drunk. But you know, everyone kind of, that's cut loose at the end of the day. You know, wow. Well, that's nuts, man. Tell me about your writing, like, like the novels. Like, what have you written novels about? They're very bizarre. One, they're, the one's, they're both about a plague that comes to the world and takes out, like, two-thirds of the people. Both of them are about that? Yeah, there are, one, the other's a continuation of it.

2:03:04One's called Magnificent Vibration. The other one's called World on Fire. And it's, it's dark humor, very dark humor. Had you written before that? I'm short-moving. I'm not a biography by myself. But you, had you written any fiction? Yeah, I, as a kid, that was the only thing I was any good at. At school was, was, I got great marks in my essays. Nothing else was any, I was terrible at everything else. Math, geography, history, old letsh it. And so, you know, I was already doing what I was planning on doing anyway. So, yeah, I was started writing poems and, you know, and I, songwriting to me, the lyrics are something I really take time, yeah, music just comes through it, either is there or it isn't there. But the lyrics you have time to sit back and go, does that work? Does that not work? Where's the music? It's kind of instantaneous or it doesn't happen.

2:04:08So yeah, I've always kind of written. And when did you write these novels? Um, I don't know. Can you tell me that, my friend? He don't remember. I don't know, it could have been the 90s, it could have been the 2000s. It was probably 2000. 2014 and 2021. What is it? 2014 was the first one, follow up 2021. Oh, so 2021, it's recent. Yeah. It was, yeah, fairly recent. Yeah. The first one was on the New York Times bestseller. Wow. Wow, you sign them all the time, you know, fans bring them in that. But, yeah, I like writing. I like writing something now that it's just something that I do when I'm not writing songs, you know, I kind of gravitate towards that. I've got to be doing something and it was like I take a guitar to the beach who go to Borah Borah and I take a little guitar when I sit on the beach because I can't just sit

2:05:08on the beach. It feels like kind of wasted time. That's wild. So I just relax, but I got to have a guitar or I got to be doing something either writing or, you know, whatever. And when you write, do you write longhand, do you write with a keyboard? No, I write computer. Yeah. You write on the computer, yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, I have a bunch of Beel lyrics, handwritten Beel lyrics, right? And they don't exist anymore because everyone writes on the computer. I write, like I have Jessie's girl, they wrote, I have the original paper that I wrote Jessie's girl on and what are you doing with that? Is it framed? No, I got to, I'm not going to close it somewhere or something. Really? Oh, God, you should frame that. Yeah, I probably should. I have all this, all my songs, really the ones that, the ones that made it and the ones that didn't, I have them all. So I got interested in that and I started collecting Beel lyrics because I love that moment of creation. How did you get those? Two, I have a friend who trades, he's the guy that validates them all for Christy's

2:06:16and for, you know, Sotheby's in all the big auction houses. And he, you know, he knows where all the bodies are buried. So I collect stuff like you obviously do, you know. Yeah. The Titanic number two lifeboat plot, this is a plaque that says SS Titanic on it and it's in a show now in Branson or somewhere and we rented it out. Wow. I love collecting stuff. I have robots and all 50s robots and, well, there's something about collecting something like Beel's lyrics that you know were written by the Beatles. Their hand touched that paper and wrote that down. No, it's a huge fan. It's very powerful stuff. The coolest one I have is Lucy in the sky with diamonds, which they both have written on it, which didn't happen much, you know, towards, they mostly, they wrote their own songs, you know. But they both got their hand in this and there's even Wednesday morning at nine o'clock written at the bottom too, the first line from, she's leaving home, but Paul did a drawing

2:07:19of the Sergeant Pepper cover when he still pictured it as them in Victorian, you know, with curtains. That was his original idea and there's a drawing of that and there's a drawing of Rock and Corn's people, which is really good because they were really good artists at him and John and that's really cool. It's got a lot of mojo, you know, that looks like there's time been spent on it. What was the origin of Lucy in this guy with diamonds? Wasn't that supposedly about LSD? No, no, it's not. It was a room that was a painting that actually, Dave Gilmore owns. Dave Gilmore owns the painting that Julian Lennon did of a painting that a girl, as Lucy, his friend at school who recently passed away, but he brought it home and his dad said, what's that? And Julian said, does Lucy in the sky with diamonds? And John took that and it just happened to be almost, you know, an anagram for LSD,

2:08:21which is crazy, but it's one of the millions of things that happened in the Beatles' lives that you went, that didn't really happen. They had to manufacture that. But no, it really friggin happened and that's part of what made them, you know, almost like angels that it was just so supposed to be. And that was one of the things and it was, but everyone thought it was LSD because Lucy in the sky with diamonds. Right, right, right. But it was really about the painting that Julian did and John just took it and only was doing drugs at the time. But he really loved Lewis Carroll and it's really what it is. This Lewis Carroll is the lyrics are Lewis Carroll. Wow. Wow, that's crazy. But Lewis Carroll who wrote Alice in Wonderland, you know, and Alice in Wonderland was also about LSD. I don't know. I mean, I think there was a lot of influence. The caterpillar was probably high, you know, and I don't know how much, how aware that they were all with them, but I know that the beetle, John loved him and loved his writing

2:09:23and he would, I mean, I'm sure he had a wink in this somewhere. For sure. For that to be adult, you know, or there was all these substances. What's that? There was all these substances. Yeah, yeah, sure. And it, yeah. Oh, he was, yeah, there were definitely, you know, higher at the time and higher, a lot of the time. Yeah. But they had that talent and you know, a lot of, I, a lot of people think that, you know, all of the drugs, but it wasn't. It was, they had the talent, but the drugs just maybe took that talent somewhere that they maybe wouldn't have gone if they hadn't had done the drugs, but it wasn't drugs that make people creative. Right. It's what they have inside them that the drug, you know, free, freeze at whatever resistance here is there. Yeah. It was the talent and it was also the volume. Did you ever had Malcolm Gladwell's outliers? No. Well, one of the things it talks about is it just talks about, it's a great book. And one of the things in the book, it talks about why something became extraordinary.

2:10:26And they talk about, he talks about the Beatles. And with the Beatles did, they were in Hamburg and they got a gig. I think it was at a strip club. And so they were like playing every night, like five, six hours a night, six days a week. And they were constantly playing. And so they did this for a couple of years and they went back to Liverpool and everyone was like, what the fuck happened to you guys? They were just tight. They were just so locked in and so good that that's when they really became the Beatles. And it's just volume. It's where he came up with the concept of 10,000 hours to a cheap mastery and something. Right. I heard that. Yeah. I mean, there are a great example of that. It's just an incredible amount of volume of work. It's like Robert Johnson too. He was an OK guitar player and he went away like for a year or something that came back and suddenly he was this amazing slide player, you know, Crossroads. Yeah. So that's where everybody thought he sold the soul of the devil. Yeah. And he was just happened, you know, but they, I don't realize, I don't know if they

2:11:30realized they were a witch shedding for the great moment, but that's absolutely what they were doing. I think they were just doing it to stay alive. Yeah. It wasn't paying much. It was just, I mean, they're working in a strip club. Paul, yeah. One of the greatest bass players of all time, he said, I got lumbered with the bass because he was a guitar player and Stuart Sutcliffe was the bass player, right? And he fell in love with Astrid. What's her name? He gave them the haircuts and he said, I'm leaving the band. And they said, and John said, I'm not playing bass. And George said, I'm not playing bass. So Paul said, I guess I'll play it. So he got the beetle. He found the beetle bass in Germany and there's a photo where you can see it. And they still on his case up against the wall where they're playing. And I just play in the piano in the strip club. And what he became, you know, with that is just freaking unbelievable. Incredible. Yeah. It's just, it's just so strange how after the fact you go back and look back on all the

2:12:30different events that had to take place in order for them to become the beetles. And many bands would become what they became. It's just so fascinating to me to see that. Oh, it happens. I think everyone's life has that, you know, you can look back. Like I look at my marriage. I've been married for 42 years now. And you know, I was in Australia and my wife was over here in Pellite with Concent. And I went to England and she moved to California and I went back to Australia and she moved back to Pellite. And I came over here and I happened to hook up with a manager at Sound City. And at the same time she happened to meet this woman who she liked her accent. She was an English woman and she became friends and she was worked at Sound City. So Barbara came in to work at Sound City and I met her there and you know, there's all these, I mean, it happened in everybody's life. And it's just amazing that we have successful lives. It all seems like it's meant to be. But I always wonder if that's like just you're looking back and you're looking for a pattern

2:13:33why it makes sense. You just tracing what happened by, happenstance, you know. But they ended up in a good way, you know? Well, it seems like whenever anyone has had an extraordinary life, there's always this fortuitous series of events that take place that enable this to just become one it became. Yeah. And I think, you know, you said a lot of it's luck, but the luck happens when you stay in the game. And I think that is the core of it is staying in the game so that, you know, when the moments happen, that you are ready. It's certainly not just luck. No, no, certainly a lot of other elements are wrong. You got to be ready. I mean, you got to woodshed. You got to have your craft down. You got to be competent. Yeah. You got to have something to offer. And you got to be able to believe in yourself enough to perform when the moment is there. And that's that's this daunting for a lot of people.

2:14:34Yeah. An anxiety about the whole story. Very. I played with my back to the audience for the first three months of being in the first band I was ever really. Really? Yeah. Why? Oh, I was nervous. I was a blues band. I mean, I kind of raised my guitar playing was based on, you know, because a claptown all those guys was based on a lot of the blues players, BB King and, you know, all the early players. And I was in a blues band. I was like 15 and they were, they were like 25 and one of them had been in print. There was a really rough group. One of them had been in prison and there was one guy that had been in prison a couple of times and that all the kind of guys that would go to pubs in the weekend and go out and fight. And which is an Australian tradition. It's the only place I've ever been where you go into the men's restroom and there's a sign says, this is what you do if your body gets into a fight. I could do never be bathroom. So I play and obviously I was shy. They were all like seem like adults to me and they went to my mom and they said, why is

2:15:39Richard play with these back to the audience? My mom goes, oh, it's probably shy. And they accepted that and eventually I turned around. Do you remember the first day you turned around? No, I wish I did. But it must have been a girl or something that I was like, I'm sure it was. Wow. I was the last virgin in the band to be in the youngest. And believe me, did they give me shit because of that? I'm sure. Listen man, you've had a hell of a life. It's just awesome to see you out there kick and ask. It really is. Like that video of you that went viral with your shirt off singing Jesse's girl like, that pumped me up. Great. I watched that and I was like, fuck yeah, good for him. Like how good he looks. Like this is kind of crazy. I just love, I love first of all that the passion that you had for singing that song was really like it was a new song. And the fact that you've been, I mean, you've been singing that song for how many fucking

2:16:40years man? Forty what? Forty six years? Yeah, that's closer to the, when that was released it was written. It was closer to the end of World War II than it is now. That's crazy. That's crazy. And she is probably in her early late 60s now. Wow. The girl I wrote it about. Who is the girl you wrote it about? Well, I never learned her name. She was at a stained glass class. It was one of those moments where I was between record deals. And I, we always wanted to do things with my hand. I would make things out of clay. I was making mirrors out of clay, like sci-fi things and selling them at the local, you know, swap me. And I started thinking about stained glass. And I thought, I could support my family doing stained glass, which was bullshit. But so I went to this, I went to this class and there was this girl and she was hot.

2:17:42You know, it's just another girl that I found hot. And she had a boyfriend there and I would try and chat with her. I never really had chat with girls. One of the reasons the guitar really helped there. I was never could go up and go, hey, babe. I was never that guy. So I'm not trying to talk to her. She had nothing, didn't want anything to do with me because she had a boyfriend. So I went home and wrote about her and this song. His name is Gary. But I tried Gary and didn't sing. So I tried Randy. And that didn't sing right either. And I ended up with Jesse and that seemed to work. Wow. But yes, Oprah went looking for her. Actually she was looking for the women behind the songs. And they found this stained glass guy and he died two years before and they thrown all the paperwork out a year after that. So they could have found it. They missed her. But I'd be wild to me.

2:18:43I don't know if I'd recognize her now. I remember her what she looked like. I wonder if she loved that song. Yeah, I mean, she had no idea. It was no idea what she was about. No one's ever come up and said, that was me, right? That's crazy. Wow. Well, listen, man, it's been awesome meeting you. I really enjoyed this very much. Thank you very much. And thanks for everything and congratulations. Thank you. You're a bad motherfucker. All right. Go see Rick Springfield in concert, ladies and gentlemen. He's still out there kicking ass. I love it. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye, everybody.