It’s off to the moon and a return to climate realism

0:00Music Mainstream media has betrayed our trust. Rather than tell us the whole story about the important issues of the day, they tell us only what they want us to hear. Your hosts Tom Harris and Todd Royal will bring you the other side of the story. Music We have a couple of big events to discuss today. The launch of Artemis II mission to circle the moon, as well as the important 16th International Conference on Climate Change, or ICCC-16 in Washington DC. This coming week on April 8th and 9th, 2026, you can see it on the web. We'll include a link to it, but if you just go to heartland.org, you can watch the whole conference online. So Todd, in the first half of our show, I'd like to talk about the Artemis II mission. So did you see the launch yesterday? I did see the launch yesterday.

1:01Yeah, what did you think? What did you think of it? Finally going back to the moon, 50 years later. Impressive. I think what's so interesting right now is what's going on in the west. We seem to have lost our ability to be adventurous. And what it seems like is the last couple of years with Trump and wanting to do big things. Let's go build nuclear reactors. And whether you think it's bigger or not, we're going to go take on Iran or we're going to go take on this one. Hey, we're going to spar with Canada. Whatever it may be, it feels like the west is trying to finally do big things again. Not even so much to go, we got to counter China. Kind of like how it was during the Cold War, but that we're starting to think big again. We're starting to be aspirational. We're starting to go, why did we stop doing this? I mean, you and I've talked so often.

2:01You know, is it climate change? People is an environmentalist? Is it regulations? Sure. That's a lot of it. Is it the democratic party, the green party? Because they're all such anti-growth people. But it seems to be something like yesterday I went, you know what? Okay, we're doing this. The Elon Musk spirit, the Donald Trump spirit, the adventure spirit, the aspirational spirit. It seems to be coming back in America. Now there's a force against it for sure, but it seems that when I saw that and I was like, okay, we're trying to do great things again. And I mean, certainly on the nuclear power front, there has been, you know, calls to do you power a spaceship with a nuclear reactor? Do you then take a small nuclear actor with you in a spaceship? Put it on the moon, set up like a little moon colony to then go to Mars and back. I mean, those are big things. And so I felt like yesterday was the beginning of America and NASA going,

3:03let's be aspirational again. Yes, we're in this horrible communist Marxist sexual anti-religious, anti-life, all this just battle going on. But when you see somebody go to take off in a rocket, it makes you go, okay, for all of our fighting and differences against one another, we can be aspirational. Yeah, exactly. And you know, one of the things I found interesting is that as the rocket's taking off, my wife saw ESA written on the side, oh, European space agency. Yeah, it's a very international mission. I mean, Canada, you know, it's wonderful that on the first mission around the back of the moon in 50 years, that they have a Canadian astronaut, a really nice guy, really nice guy, Jeremy Hansen. Yeah, it feels like Tom, whenever you do these kind of things, where you have these massive political differences, you know, Trump is Trump. And then Secretary of State Marco Rubio is saying they're going to leave NATO,

4:04because NATO won't help reopen the straight of hormones, or they've said, US planes can't use the NATO bases, which America has financed. Oh, yeah, that's an important point that America has financed. Yeah, that America has financed them. But yet somehow, and somehow when we go to space, it makes us find our better, it makes us, not maybe our better angels, let's call them our collaborative angels, that somehow we can put differences aside and go, okay, we're mad at the Canadians, you're mad at us, but bring your astronaut here. We're mad at the European space, you know, the Europeans, you don't like us, but let's collaborate together on this. Yeah. There's something very unique about it. You know, Easter's coming up this Sunday, and Good Friday is tomorrow. So if you are a Christian, you know, you believe, and this is the day that Jesus was, you know, historically, Jesus is crucified on the day, three days later, he rises again, you know, saved the sins of the world.

5:06So this is kind of the big Christian holiday coming up. And it obviously can be a time of unity and celebration, but I tell you two, man, this space stuff really does seem to, it seems to really bring us together, and for the audience, I'm putting my hands together right now, like a show of unity and collaboration, but it does seem where we can put down our differences and really work together. What, yeah. Yeah, what do you think about that? Well, I think it's kind of amazing that we still have Russians on board the International Space Station. And you know, it's interesting, people like this sort of hate Russia because of Ukraine. Actually, no, I mean, Russia actually is very similar to us in many ways, especially similar to Canada, you know, with our national sport being hockey and most of our country being a frozen wasteland, but very similar. But you know, it's interesting. The Russian cosmonauts are people that you really want to have on board your mission.

6:10And I'll tell you why. There's an interesting video on the internet, and it shows how the West get a truck out of the ice into a lake. And you know, they get all kinds of fancy machines and everything. And 24 hours later, they have the truck out of the ice. The Russians go off into the woods, they cut down a few trees, make some levers, and an hour later, the truck's out of the ice. And you know, the Russians, if you look at their space program, partly because it's been very primitive over the years. You know, Yuri Gagarin, for example, the first human in space that we know of, may have been others that died, that we didn't hear about. You know, he didn't actually land in a spacecraft. At some altitude, he had to jump out of it and actually land by parachute. If you can imagine that. Imagine coming burning through the atmosphere at high speed, knowing that you have to get the hell out of the spacecraft before it hits the ground. You know, they're a tough, tough people. I mean, they had fire. They had fires on the international, or not the international,

7:11but the Russian space station mirror. They had fires when they had to close off complete compartments and actually go and fight the fire in space. You know, so I mean, there was one mission where they landed way off target. And the astronauts had to spend the night, I think it was in the Ural Mountains. Mountains in central Russia, where there were bears around, and it was like sub-zero freezing. These are tough, tough people. But we've been able to work with them in space, which I think is wonderful, and greatly increases the chances of not going to war with them. You know, you kind of wonder too. And I've written about this, Tom. I've written about, you know, soft power, you know, the power or whether it's entertainment. I've used, you know, natural gas. I wrote an article years ago for the national interest saying, you know, the United States should strike this great bargain with India. We should be the ones to give them all the oil and natural gas they want. Almost as like a counter to China. So using soft, you know, soft power.

8:11I wonder. I wonder. And I've been very critical of the Chinese Communist Party before, and people that I respect and listen to are very critical. But I do wonder if there would be a way to use space, to use energy to go, to not try to say, I'm going to, I need you to give us our rare earth metals and minerals to the Chinese. But to go, what could we do? We don't want you to go take Taiwan. You want Taiwan back. What if we struck a hundred year deal with you for all the oil and natural gas you could ever want? And then set a price for it. So now you have a purchase agreement. So all American companies and everybody knows what's going to happen to their money. And then I wonder if you could ever go to them and go, would you guys ever want to work on admission to Mars together? Oh, I'd be great. And the Chinese may look at you and go, no, we're not interested.

9:13But I wonder with space, if there's ever a way, space and energy. You know, you kind of go, what are things we all need? You know, the old Maslow of hierarchies and needs. You know, we need food shelter clothing. Some people say, okay, you need, you don't need to be by yourself. You need a relationship. You know, meaningful relationships eventually, you know, most people want to have sexual relations with somebody, long-term commitments, et cetera. But then you think at a nation level, okay, you can't have any economy until the end of energy. You know, why do we go against the climate movement so much? Because it takes away the ability to grow. This mask of hierarchy needs. Well, there seems to be that part of us, Tom, that wants to be aspirational, maybe not collaborative, but we want to aspire. Is there, you know, what's the meaning of life? Is there God or no God? Who made the universe? Was it a big bang?

10:13Was it a creator? Like we... Are we alone in the universe? Are we alone? It seems that somehow, and maybe I'm being, I'm going... I'm harkening back to my liberal college days, my... my nativity. Could you... Could we ever strike a grand deal? Like, could you go to the Iranians right now and say, yours is the birthplace of civilization. Would you ever want to work on this? Yeah. Yeah. China. You are outside of the Persians, what we know of, you've been around for thousands of years. You and the Indians have been around. Is... Would there ever be a way to go... Can we work on this together? Yeah. Well, you know, hopefully that's what we'll set the stage for getting rid of this terrible regime that runs Iran. I mean, most Iranians, as Trump said in his speech yesterday, they killed 45,000 Iranians who were protesting for freedom. So, I mean, the average Iranian is not our enemy.

11:14They're not our enemy at all. And you know, it's interesting because even during the Cold War, the space program, yeah, sure, they were competing. It was kind of an alternative to war, which is a great thing to do. You know, the space race. But, you know, they had the joint Apollo Soyuz mission, when Gerald Ford was president. Yep. And once again, they're shaking hands in orbit. You know, they're floating around in each other's spaceships. I mean, when you're in space, the difference between humans seems pretty tiny. Yeah. I just, I, I wonder that I, I certainly look around and go like with Iran and you go, you know, I, I've read the Quran. I've had a study militant Islam before. I've, you know, a good enough understanding of G-Hod and then wanting to twelfth amon. And their version of what's going to bring them happiness and or utopia. I've, I've, I've had to study that stuff before. But you, but I do wonder, just, it's just when you watch

12:14that take off yesterday. Yeah. And you, and you, yeah. And you watch the power of that and the, the, the fuel and the power and the machinery and the stress and the heat and the engineering and guys like you here, and you've been engineers and you, you just go, is there a way? And, and people listen to this and they go, you are the most naive person I've ever heard. Hear me out. If I'm going to be so militant, let a little emotional niatability take me over for a moment with the space program. Should there a way you could ever talk to the eye at all and go, would you want to do the space program? Would you want, you know, the Pollock Bureau of the Chinese Communist Party? You want to help us go to Mars? I don't know, Tom. You, you look at this and you go, I understand what the Bible says in Ecclesiastes. A time for everything. A time for war, a time for peace. I get that. In today's interconnected world and these fragile energy systems which seemingly have been

13:20allowed to have no redundancy to them, I think you have to look for ways to, to not go to war. You know, well, if the straight of war moves has shown us anything, you better, you better try as hard as possible to not do wars. And to do that, can we do energy contracts together? Do you want to work on a rocket? I don't know. What, what, am I being naive right now? What do you think? Well, you know, as I said in my article, it was just published today, you know, how space may be the key to world peace. As we try to achieve enormous and amazing things, there's a huge benefit in working together. You know, it's interesting. One of the astronauts said, he said, if we want to go to space quickly, we should do it alone. If we want to go far, we should do it together. You know, and it is interesting because I think that the drive to explore, it's shared by many, many people around the world. And you know, it's interesting when Apollo 11 landed on the moon, I collected newspapers.

14:21I was a newspaper boy. And, you know, you got people from all over the world, everything from the New York Times to, you know, the newspapers in Brazil and, you know, they even stopped the fighting in Vietnam temporarily. You know, and so I mean, everybody was excited and cheering and looking up at the moon there, human beings there, you know, it's really wonderful. I mean, the best ambassadors for the United States were the Apollo 11 astronauts. You know, they embarked on a massive trip, 38 nation trip. It was hard on Buzz Aldrin. You know, I've read Buzz Aldrin's Return to Earthbook. And he says that, okay, in the morning, I met a president in the afternoon. I had, you know, 10,000 people at a stadium. In the evening, I was meeting a prince. Well, poor Buzz Aldrin, he wasn't trained for this. I mean, he was trained for being a rendezvous, Mr. Dr. rendezvous, they called him. So while he was trained for flying in space, you go traveling around the world like that, was very stressful on him. And he actually ended up with a nervous breakdown. But it was wonderful because, you know, even leaders who disagreed with you and foreign policy,

15:25they were embracing the astronauts and cheering. Because the moon landing was not perceived as an act of military dominance, even though the officers, you know, most of the astronauts were military officers. But they called it a triumph for all mankind. And, you know, but Neil Armstrong's first words when he stepped on the moon, that's one small step for man, a great leap for mankind. And that was brilliant, you know, because it made everybody feel they were part of it. I was 16 years old, so it was a very exciting time for all of us. But yeah, and I think it's interesting. I mean, these huge heroes, I mean, they're huge in the sort of spectrum of things. They go down almost like archetypes for heroes. I mean, we can really admire them and they have amazing characteristics. They're not all perfect people, of course. But, you know, one thing that could happen, which would bring nations together, is let's say we have a base on the moon and Chinese have a base on the moon. And our base suffers an asteroid impact or something, and they're all stranded, and the Chinese help us, or vice versa.

16:28You know, I mean, that is when we can start to see tensions reducing. So I think, honestly, that if we expand into space and become a space-faring species, the difference between humans will seem like nothing, you know. And in fact, it's interesting when you have a colony on Mars, if you have a person who's a life-support specialist that he can help you, or she can help you with your oxygen tanks and, you know, keeping it livable, you're not going to ask what race they are. You don't care. You know, they're just a super expert. Yeah, I just, I think what I see so much like, you know, when you look at, let's say the Iran, what's going on with the Iran War, is that post-World War II, you know, post, the Potsdam Conference, certainly the Bretton Woods Agreement, the United Nations, the World Bank, the IMF, the opening, you know, the United States saying, we're going to be kind of a global market. We're going to use the dollar. We've all become so interconnected.

17:28And to me, that's what the Strait of War Moose is really, really revealed. It's revealed two things. People can say three. First off, the Iranians are a lot more capable than you thought they were, which I don't think comes as a big surprise. Secondly, we are just so interconnected. And like I said a moment ago, thirdly would be that there wasn't redundancy built in. You know, there, in my, like, if I said something, I go, you should have built 200 pipelines. You know, there's a couple of pipelines. Why weren't, you know, there could always be my, I mean, my God. What if some gigantic tsunami had ever come up? Like, something could have ever happened on a natural scale that could have hurt that. And you had no backup tinny that, that doesn't even, it doesn't even make sense. I heard someone say, well, you made a deal with the devil and you allowed the Iranians. Now, I think all of you have allowed a 21 mile opening gap to have one fifth of the world's oil. So in other words, Tom, my point is in the space program.

18:29We are now all so interconnected. I read something recently that America gets something like half of their heavy crude oil from Canada. Yeah, right. Because American refineries need, you know, they were set up for that heavy crude oil. And it's one of the reasons America went after Venezuela. You get that, you can get that heavy crude. In other words, whether you agree or not with, with how President Trump and America are acting towards Canada. Well, if shots are fired now, it's not like 100 years ago. I remember my grandmother telling me this, it would be, I think about 110 now. They were so isolated. You know, everything, I mean, I remember having her having a garden. She didn't have a dryer. I mean, just kind of a frontiersman kind of thing was now as we've certainly exploded in growth and prosperity globally. I understand there's billions that don't have electricity.

19:29But there's enough of the world now that's connected that it just feels like when I watch that, when I watch that, we're going to go to the back of the moon and let's put a nuclear reactor on the moon to go to Mars. Man, maybe that keeps some of these wars from taking place. I mean, maybe because, you know, what people don't realize, there's a massive war going on right now between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Oh, is that right? Oh, yeah. I haven't even been following it. I should know that. Oh, sure. I mean, it's going to pull in, I mean, it could pull in India, but I mean, there's a huge war going on right now between Afghanistan and Pakistan. We forget that we've had greater bloodshed in Ukraine that we haven't had that greater bloodshed on European continent since World War II. We're looking at over 2 million soldiers and people have perished from this. So, yeah, you do look up at some point and go, maybe this will be you not or listen, could the Europeans go with the Russians and do space together something.

20:36We're battling each other a whole lot in an interconnected world now. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. And you know, it's interesting because when a rocket launches, everybody looks up, you know, nobody's looking down, nobody's looking at their cell phone. You know, the rocket is an uplifting experience. And, you know, Jeremy Hansen, the Canadian astronaut, just before they blasted off, he said, we're going for all humanity. You know, and the scale of the universe makes humanity look pretty tiny. And of course, then differences between us look really, really tiny. And this is one of the things they call it the overview effect. When people are in orbit and they look down at the earth, they don't see any of the boundaries. Okay, they see the earth as an interconnected hole. You know, rivers don't stop when you get through a border, the mountains don't stop. And, you know, a lot of the astronauts come back dedicated to world peace and looking and finding out, you know, how can we live together on this little planet. They were saying that one of the greatest steps to world peace will be when the UN meets on the moon.

21:37Okay, and they can have the earth in the background and they're trying to protect that little sphere. You know, and it's interesting because the astronauts were very moved in that way. I met Jim Irwin. He was the lunar module pilot on Apollo 15. Yeah, Apollo 15. Yeah, I was with a group, a Christian group within the military. And of course, Jim Irwin is very strong Christian. And they brought him in. And he said that when he stood on the moon, I think it was Jim Irwin anyway. He said he extended his hand and he could cover the whole earth with his thumb. So everything he'd ever known, you know, on earth, all the people he'd known, all of the wars, all of the conflicts, all the good things of wonderful, fantastic, amazing music that we've made and architecture, you could cover it with your thumb. Yeah. And he said when he looked around and saw the desolate moon, I mean, the most famous picture in history is earth rise over the moon, you know, because it showed the contrast between this. No, it's beautiful to begin with.

22:38I, you know, it's interesting. I, I've read a decent amount, you know, on the Apollo astronauts and how they, they would struggle when they came back. Some of them had some of them had real, real struggles. I think because of, you know, the immensity and maybe, maybe Tom, that that's going to, maybe that will be the case one day that the UN meets on the moon or the US Congress or the Canadian parliament. Whatever, who knows, who knows, I, I, I, I don't mean to continue to harken on the straight of our moves, but obviously we are an energy show and I do another energy show here on the, you know, on the network and. Hey Todd, I found the quote from Edgar Mitchell. Yeah, suddenly from behind the rim of the moon in long slow motion moments of immense majesty. There are my, there emerges a sparkling blue and white jewel, a light delicate sky blue sphere, lace with slowly swirling veils of white rising gradually like a small pearl in a thick sea of black mystery.

23:45It takes more than a moment to fully realize this is earth home. My view of our planet was a glimpse of divinity. So yeah, it was amazingly affected had on these people and you know it affected the whole world because for the first time we saw the earth as an interconnected whole and if no coincidences within two years of the 1968 flight around the moon that went in orbit of the moon. We saw the formation of all sorts of environmental groups, the US environmental protection agency. I mean, people came to realize the earth is pretty darn special when you compare it with the, with the desolate moon and the vacuum space. I mean, it's amazing. We have to go for our break now Todd and in the second half, I'd love to talk space for the whole evening, but there's something super important happening next week. It's the international climate change conference in Washington DC. So can we talk about that in the second half? Absolutely. You know, lead us off. Okay, great. We'll be right back talking about ICCC 16.

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29:06Most energy bars are based on chocolate or fruit and are held together with serps or sweeteners. To learn more, just visit bearbar.com slash out loud. On Wednesday and Thursday next week, there is going to be an antidote to climate alarmism. It's Heartland's 16th International Conference on Climate Change. The Heartland Institute, of course, is a free market think tank based near Chicago. And they're bringing this amazing conference to Washington DC Todd. And you know, they're going to be challenging the notion that humans are causing a climate crisis. And you think, well, who's going to be there? Just maybe one or two crack scientists? Well, no. They've got dozens of the world's leading experts who are saying, hey guys, it's no climate crisis. And even if there was the thing to do about it, it would be to adapt not to try to control the world's climate. And we can't do that. Do you think we can, Todd? Are we the master, master controls of the climate?

30:09You know, I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again. And one of one of my books, you can find it, quote, it was, you know, by Dr. Willie soon, the astrophysicist, you know, formerly of NASA who talks about there's six to 12 different levers that essentially control climate, the atmosphere controls the thing called Earth. And within those, they have about 2000 different variables. And he said, if you took one of them and said, oh, I want to test this variable against this. He said it would take a supercomputer about 40 years to give you an answer. In other words, whether, whether you believe, okay, that's the God of the Bible. There's a, there's, you know, divine providence, intelligent design, or you go, no, no, no, I'm an evolutionist, evolutionist. And I believe that there was a big bang that took place. I don't, I'm not going to, I thought started the bang, but a big bang took place. Whatever that may be, what it proves is the climate or the atmosphere, let's just say climate for our purposes of this discussion.

31:16It's so complex to say that we think we can control it is, I don't know, Tom, I've always thought it's the height of arrogance and hubris. When I hear people, you know, leading environmentalist environmental organizations, politicians, you know, big business people. I just sit there and always go, that, forget that you can't factually do it. It's just so arrogant to me that you would even think that it's so arrogant that you think you could. Yeah, it's like King Knut. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, but you know, the story of King Knut is interesting. His courtiers were saying that he was so amazing that he could stop the ocean tides from coming in. And he said, I don't be ridiculous, but they kept saying this sort of thing, trying to sort of, I guess, curry faith favor with him. And he finally, he was the one who said, no, I can't do that. Don't be ridiculous. And they actually moved his throne. He told them, move my throne down to the, down to the sea. And he stood there and or sat there and commanded to see to stop.

32:20And of course it kept coming in. So King Knut wasn't stupid. He wasn't the one saying that he could do it. It was his advisors who were trying to curry favor. So I mean, the whole idea that we can control the world's climate. I mean, that's completely crazy. I think we've talked about this for, but I want to ask you this because I remember, you know, for our audience, you and I did a series of three different shows where I interviewed you about climate change. And for the audience to know, you know, Tom is considered one of the world's leading experts on this subject. But so I'm a sort of an intermediary between the scientists and the public. I'm a science communicator. Got it. Yeah, but you're, you're, you're very well versed in this. Why don't, so let's just take some of the big leading things. Bill McKibbin, Mark Jacobson of Stanford, you know, Tom Steyer, Michael Bloomberg, George Soros. Michael, Michael, Michael, man, you know, the hockey stick thing.

33:24Right now, we can go find this is not hard to find that again, whether you, however old you think the earth is, the earth has been warmer, colder, more CO2 in the air, less CO2 in the air, more, more particulate matter, less particulate matter, before the use of fossil fuels and before the industrial revolution. I don't, I don't understand why that is never factored in like, how can you say, and I've been to Indian, I've told you it was very dirty. There was a cold plant, literally not half a mile from my hotel room. I don't want to live that way, but it's not like people you can't live that way. Yeah, so I don't understand, Tom, if you can help educate me here, how did it come around that intelligent people in academia with PhDs can't do exactly what I said to go do. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't take a longer time frame perspective, and you know, that's one of the things that geologists bring to the debate.

34:28I mean, they say, oh, come on, Canada, you're starting your temperature record in 1948. Okay, so they have a temperature record from 1948 to 2024, and they're saying the Canada is warming it twice the rate of the rest of the world. Well, guess what, if you go a little bit farther back into the 1930s and 1940s, early 40s, you find that it was actually warmer. And of course, warmer in the Arctic as well. If you go back to the medieval warm period of the Roman War and period of the Mendoan War and period, you know, or the Holocene Optimum, okay, 8,000 I believe it was years ago. There was a period when it was definitely warmer than today, and temperature changed very, very quickly. Ocean levels are rising eight times faster than today, you know, but the thing is people just don't have that long time frame perspective. And the media, of course, they sell news when there's exciting negative and scary stuff. And so they don't interview geologists because geologists would just laugh and say, come on.

35:28You worried about a half a degree change, like get real. They're just done a lot more than that. Like, I mean, I can go find right now. I remember there was a group five years ago, like, called Friends of Science. I believe you put out a YouTube video. They're great. 500 people before, like, at one of the cops. And they said, no, it was like engineers and scientists and others. I mean, you know, there's Richard Linser. I mean, there's all these famous, these folks that will tell you. I mean, no, there's the gentleman who founded Greenpeace who goes, we're actually CO2 deficit right now. Yeah, Patrick Moore. Yeah, I think I have a, I think that's where I have a, I mean, I consider Tom and I can get cynical and go, oh, these are ranked propagandists who are doing this for their own benefit because they get government money and they get all sorts of money from people who benefit from this. But I've never understood how I as an energy analyst, an analyst. I'm not a climatologist. I'm not a scientist.

36:32But as just an analyst who's had to look at this and study it and try to understand it, glaring weaknesses are just evident. Oh, yeah. I mean, the weaknesses are just, they're, they're so glaring as to, as to not even make sense within basic critical reasoning skills that some freshman at any, at a community college takes. And you go, wait a minute, I can find a timeline, even if I wanted to be a Christian, you know, like let's make fun of myself. Okay, your Christian who believes the world started in Genesis. And so the earth is 10,000 years old. Let's just say you can find where it has been colder and hotter. Yeah, even than that for time frame. I mean, you, it's, it, it's not hard. Like that's not, that's not hard to find. I mean, my God, we can go and chat GBT right now. I've, I've got timelines and some of my books.

37:34So where does that begin, Tom, that then people like the Heartland Institute are seen as, oh, they're, they're right wing, Magga, deniers, clingers, chumps, idiots. And you go, yeah, I don't think they are. Yeah, well, this originates with the media, you know, and if I think back to when I used to work for a communications company, we had a fellow that was hired who used to be a reporter. And I asked him, I said, why would you only cover the climate alarmist side of the story when you were talking about climate change? He said, look, it's noon. Okay, I'm in my office in a, in a newspaper room. And my boss comes to me and says, hey, I want an article on climate change. And I need it by five o'clock. He said, look, I can go to the Suzuki foundation or green piece and I can get really good quotes. Okay, boom, boom, boom, put my article together. I'm out of there by five o'clock. I'm taking my kids to hockey, et cetera. And I don't hear anything more about it. There's no problem.

38:34He said, if I'm going to cover your point of view, I have to dig into very complicated science. I've got to listen to people who are not particularly good at communicating to the public. I don't have any sort of sound bites that I could just grab off a website. And he says, and if I do succeed and get in the article done by five o'clock, I go home exhausted because it's really hard. And the next day, my editor calls me up on the carpet and says, hey, we had 14 phone calls complaining about your article. You've got to defend it to me. You know, you got to why are you talking about what? What isn't happening? Obviously there is a massive climate catastrophe going on. And he said, look, I don't know who's right. I don't know if you're right or the other side's right. But I'm a human being and I have a family to support. I don't want to get fired. So what am I going to do? You know, so the thing is heartland have done an amazing job with these international climate change conferences. They've they've invited in some of the scientists who are truly entertaining. Okay, who know who know their stuff, but they make it fun. They make it exciting.

39:38And I'll just give a couple of names here. Willie soon. Willie soon is a wonderful guy. He's an expert, of course, in the sun's impact on climate. He's done a lot of studies looking at how climate has changed over very long periods of time. And how in many cases it's related to the activity of the sun. And Willie, I mean, he's bursting with enthusiasm. You get him on stage and no audience is going to go to sleep. Another guy who's speaking is Joe Bistardi. He's the co-chief meteorologist at Weather Bell. And he's an expert in weather and climate forecasting. Joe is an interesting guy. Joe is actually an amateur bodybuilding champion. Okay, he's just a couple of years younger than me. But he's like Mr. Muscle. I don't think he's had a day and his adult life where he didn't train. And Joe Bistardi is funny because it one of the climate conferences that Hartlin put on. He's talking away and he's all enthusiastic jumping all over the stage. And suddenly his phone rings and he picks it up and he says, oh, it's president Trump.

40:39And he has a guy who simulates Trump's voice and they have it over the speaker. And he's saying, oh, Donald, you know, how are you? And he says, oh, I'm so glad that Hartlin is holding this conference. And the guy simulates Trump's voice perfectly. And so I mean, Joe Bistardi, you got everybody has to tune in to see him. Because no matter what, he's like super entertaining Mark Marano. Okay, Mark Marano. I mean, he dressed up as a Louis the 14th in his climate hustle to movie. Okay, and he talks about the climate monarchy. So you know what Hartlin's done is, yes, these are super experts in many cases. People like Willie soon and Joe Bistardi. But they're also entertaining and educational and interesting speakers easy to understand. You know, so people have got to go to Hartlin.org anytime in the day. Quite frankly, on the eighth and ninth. Okay, that's Wednesday and Thursday coming up Hartlin.org. And yeah, you're going to find some very technical speeches. Okay, that's, that's fine. You know, you need to also talk about serious, serious issues that require detailed analysis.

41:42And that's good for the engineers in the audience. But then you're going to have people who can combine the science with entertainment like Joe Bistardi and Mark Marano. And these guys are bubbling with enthusiasm. So you know, that's one of the reasons why the climate activists hate Hartlin. Because they're so successful. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Tom, we've talked about it so much and it gets talked about all the time. And I get it. We're in a world right now. We're in some ways. There's a lot of post truth that goes on. There's all the Marxism and, you know, so much resentment that people have towards other people. This one is just so glaring to me. Like it's just, it's such a glaring thing that it, it was hotter and it was colder before fossil fuels. So how are we blaming fossil fuels? Because hotter it was colder. There's more CO2, more particular matter. Let before this, you know, proliferation of people, post industrial revolution, post fossil fuel use.

42:51But media knows just like Johnny Cash said, you know, good news, travel slow bad news, travels like wildfire. I get. I mean, I was a newspaper boy. So, you know, I was selling newspapers. And it was interesting because I remember so many cases where headlines were not reflective of reality. But they grabbed people's attention. Russia and China had a minor border skirmish around 1963 when I was delivering papers. And the headline was, Russia and China go to war. And it turned out there's just a couple of shots fired over the ramparts, so to speak. Nobody was killed. But they sold lots of newspapers that day. Similarly, you know, and this is where I got really annoyed because I was a space not even a 10 years old. They had a headline, Russians plant red emblem on Mars, you know, the sick hammer and sickle on, sorry, on Venus on Venus. And they described, that's right.

43:51And they described how the Russians with their spacecraft had landed on Venus. And they described how they were using a household barometer, believe it or not, to measure the atmospheric pressure. And I thought, I'll come on. It's a hundred atmospheric pressure on the surface of Mars of Venus. They're not going to use a household barometer. They was a stupid thing. And it turned out that they lost contact with the spacecraft many miles above the surface. Okay. So it never stopped landed. But when they were, but when they corrected the article, now remember this was headlines. You know, Russians, Russians, flat plant hammer and sickle on Venus. They printed it on page 17 and the tiny little bot saying, well, actually they lost contact with the spacecraft, you know, 20 miles above the surface. And it crashed somewhere and they don't know really where it is. You know, so that's a problem. Is that the media when they come out with their enormous announcements are often wrong. But when they are shown to be wrong, they can print a tiny retraction on page 20.

44:53Yeah. Yeah. I remember mine was, so I grew up in the age of newspapers and used to read them cover to cover. And I'm originally from Fort Worth, Texas. And we took the Fort Worth start telegram. And I can recall post college, I voted, I voted for Bill Clinton twice, Clinton Gore twice. And one of the reasons is they were going to do like an AmeriCorps thing where, you know, people like me could go get a job and work for the government and help rebuild America. Kind of like the old, you know, New Deal under Roosevelt kind of thing. Yeah. You know, the civilian workforce and all that stuff. And I remember the start telegram just, man, they were so in favor of it. And then, of course, they never gave any details about why it wouldn't work. And then eventually it comes out why it didn't work for a variety of reasons. And I do remember kind of the same thing. Oh, maybe we were a little wrong in our analysis. You know, bottom of the bottom of page 28 on the, you know, the Wednesday night edition that where you do, I think that.

45:58And nobody sees the correction, but they also the headline. I'll solve the headline. And I think it's where I even have problems with. I do. I'm with you, Tom. I can have real problems with our media these days. I mean, it's a little ironic because you and I are a little bit in our own little way here. We're part of the media. And so I think, I think it's why I spend so much time preparing for these shows and reading so much to make sure. Okay. Am I being factual and truthful to the audience? And if I give my opinion or my thoughts or my reasoning, I'll give it to you. But yeah, I mean, I think so much of now with our media, it's, it's rank propaganda. I mean, and the climate, the climate stuff like you'd call. The climate scare. What if I call a scare hustle? I just say, it's not true. I think that that for me, I'd just say.

47:00It's not true. Well, I've heard it referred to as climate porn, basically. I mean, they are. Yeah, I can see it. It's gross exaggerations. You know, and, you know, it's funny. My dad used to say, there should be a law. And I don't agree with this. And I'll tell you why. It should be a law that if you print a headline that Joe Smith killed his wife. And it turns out that he didn't. You should be forced by law to print another headline saying, Joe Smith did not kill his wife. For two reasons. Number one is you have to let poor Joe Smith off the hook. And you better tell everybody that you're wrong the first time. But also it means that the media would be much more careful with their headlines. Because knowing they have to correct it and look stupid to the whole world. By having headlines saying they're yesterday's headline was wrong. They would be more careful. And, you know, there's actually good merit to that. The only thing is, of course, it starts to remove freedom of the press and gets the government more involved in the media. And we really don't want that. But I think that the healthier approach is for everybody to have huge skepticism about what the media says.

48:03Oh, yeah. And to take what they say. Yeah. And I think COVID actually was very useful in that regard. Because now a lot of people, when they see what they see, you know, on Fox News and CNN and all these. A lot of them people will now say, oh, yeah, well, they were wrong last time. Maybe they're wrong this time. So taking what you hear in the media with a big grain of salt. I think is the right answer. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think you, I think you have to. I think one of the things that's bothered me so bad. I mean, think about climate and all this other stuff. You really think about like when CNN first came around. That CNN was revolutionary. That CNN was 24 hour news. They were there during the first Persian Gulf War. They were such a trusted source. And okay, if you vote for the US Democratic Party or you tend to be more, you know, if you're green or you're in Tifa or, you know, you're someone that has those kind of left wing social and political beliefs,

49:08then CNN and MS now are for you. And I get it. People go, well, Fox News is ranked Republicanism. I've watched both. And what CNN was and what they are now. It's CNN and maybe I'm naive and tell me if you think I am. CNN seemed to be the organization that said, we're just going to report the news. And leave editorials to the editorialists and the columnists. But the news itself should not be an editorial. Absolutely. And you know, I've heard people say this and I've read his books and really enjoyed people go, oh, it was Bill O'Reilly who kind of broke that, you know, because he would do the talking points. And I used to be a big fan of Bill O'Reilly and watched him. It was fun. It's fun. Very smart to master's degrees. Oh, I just, I do. I sit here and I just go. I say this from my wife all the time, I go, I can't, I don't want to watch the news anymore.

50:14Well, it's interesting, Todd. We have in Canada, something called the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. And it's the major media in Canada. Probably more people working for CBC among the journalist population than all other media combined. The trouble is it's paid for by the government entirely. So of course, they're not going to go against their pay master. They get over a billion dollars from the Canadian taxpayer. You know, and what I found is over the years, I mean, originally CBC was pretty honest. It was direct statements of what they thought was true in the news. But now it's constantly, you know, editorializing. It's not just presenting the news and CNN does that in spades. And of course, so does Fox News. I like Fox News, you know, because they give an alternative. I think the healthy thing to do is to watch both, watch CNN, get the one side, get Fox News. And then maybe you can sort of piece together with some truth, you know. But we only have a couple of minutes to go. And I'd like to just read a little bit of a quote as to what Heartland says is the purpose of ICC 16.

51:16You okay with that? We exactly. Yeah, it says ICCC and they're speaking in general about all the ICCs because they're 16. And if you go to the Heartland website, you can see many of the past ones, people like Tim Ball over speaking. He won their lifetime achievement award in climate science. ICCC exists to provide a platform for scientific debate unconstrained by political pressure or ideological conformity. We bring together researchers, experts and policymakers who are committed to examining the actual data on climate change, rather than accepting predetermined conclusions. Okay, now this is really important because I mean climate science should be independent of politics. But so often what happens is the people that do it in many cases work for the government. So instead of doing evidence based decision making, the decision is made and the scientists go off to try to find some evidence for it. You know, an evidence based decision making sounds great, but this is really decision based evidence making.

52:18Heartland's trying to get away from that. You know, they're bringing in many of the top people in the field. Willie soon, just like we talked about, he's going to be there. You know, and it's interesting because there was a report put out by Department of Energy that we've talked about previously. It was called a critical review of impacts of greenhouse gas emissions on the U.S. climate. And two of the authors are going to be there. Dr. Judith Curry and Dr. Ross McKintrick. You know, so they're going to be there. And we're going to have some political people there. And in fact, one of the, yeah, one of the lead off speakers is the head of the EPA, Lee Zeldin. Okay, so that's going to be really good. And yeah, so people have got to go to this. And as I say, people like Will Happer, okay, he's a professor emeritus in Department of Physics at Princeton. And you know, his speeches, he's quite easy to understand. Even though these are highly technical topics, he makes it quite easy to understand. And he's a very nice fellow as well. John Clouser, he was the 2022 Nobel Prize winner in Physics.

53:22Okay, and you left here a story. Apparently, he went to the White House. Because of course, he was the Nobel Prize winner and Joe Biden greeted him. And apparently, Dr. Clouser told Joe in some way. I don't know how. I've heard this story. Yes. Yeah, that is point of view on climate was a mistake. And apparently Joe dismissed him as, yeah, come on. He doesn't believe it. So here you have the Nobel Prize winner in Physics being dismissed by a politician. Well, we're going to hear directly from Dr. Clouser as to what he thinks is really going on. So, you know, it's, oh, yeah, one other thing that's fun is instead of just old white men. They're actually bringing in some young people. Lucy Biggers. Lucy Biggers is interesting. You see pictures of her on the internet with AOC and with Greta Thunberg. Okay, Lucy Biggers was on the other side of the climate debate. And she was very much into social media influencing. She changed her point of view.

54:23She actually, yeah, exactly. And so she now has a big following and she'll be speaking there. So we're starting to see a new generation of climate realists among the young population. I'm hoping the next one will be Tom McDonald because we've talked about Tom in the past. I'm trying to get him to come over to our side because he has tens of millions of viewers. So yeah, so and you know, I think young people, they're becoming much more realistic about the media. Don't you find that young people are now more cynical about the media than we were perhaps when we were growing up? So they are. I mean, they're certainly, they're certainly more informed. They're, they're, they're certainly more media savvy tech savvy. I mean, obviously they've grown up on computers and phones and iPads. So they're just, they're an entirely different, different generation than you and I ever, ever were. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the skepticism from young people is a healthy thing because you know, it goes back to the discussion of what do you do when the media lie and they have stupid headlines?

55:27I don't think the answer is to have laws because that's government interference, freedom of speech. That sort of thing. You know, you should have a freedom to be stupid. You know, but I think the healthy attitude is what Tom McDonald does in his videos. And I'll, I'll put a link of it under his, you know, under this podcast because he questions the authorities and he questions so much. I don't want my son growing up to be my daughter. Don't defund the media. Sorry. Do defund me. He says don't defund police. Defund the media to lie through their teeth. So I think heartland is done a huge service in bringing together not just the theoretical scientists, but also the entertaining scientists. And I really encourage people to tune in next week. Just go to heartland.org. It'll give you the instructions to get to the site. So hey Todd, this was a fun discussion talking about everything from space. You know, a movement into the into the universe at last. We're going back after 50 years.

56:27Let's hope this mission continues successfully. And a wonderful conference coming up this coming week by heartland. This is be great. I hope you're going to tune in to time. I will. Yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. So this is being Tom Harris and my co-host Todd Royal signing out from the other side of the story.