Best Of: Horror Interviews

0:00You're listening to this podcast so you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact. Drivers who switch and save with progressive save over $900 on average. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end. This is very strange. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pills for all your home projects at Angie.com. There's no place to escape to. This is the last podcast on the left. Why are you fucking all the way? That's when the cannonball is started. You're sound. I know. I know. Yeah. You guys are gonna love this one.

1:04You're gonna love it. I don't fucking care what you think. Okay. This is a big deal for us. We talked about a lot of fucking people this year. A lot of people this year. Last couple of years. We've been doing it more. Yeah. Well, officially we're finally actual horror interviews. Yeah. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Barck. I'm here with the interview boy, Henry Zabraskiy and Ed Lassa. Oh, you're doing well. When I look at this, I can't even believe who we got to talk to this year. We got to talk to the Philip O'Präthes, Ryan Kugler, Zach Kregger, Kane Parsons, Stephen King, Joe Hill, Robert Englin, and you're about to hear selections from all of them. Yeah. That's right. Thank you very much everybody for supporting us over the last decade. Like, we're on break right now and we're taking a little bit of a snows. We're getting a little bit of a CS to go on. But we're going to be back talking about horrible things for the rest of your fucking lives. No worry. Next week it's going to come back big and it's come back hard. Are we going to put back in the Robert Englin interview that he actually changed his name from Robert France? I don't know. He said the lawyers were still kind of fighting with the lawyers and the publicist people.

2:08So I don't know. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, it's fact. You know, hopefully it doesn't sue us for defamation. But here and listen to some of these incredible clips. Make sure you tell Robert France last podcast and the left loves him. That's right. I'm your play. I'm like, and this is the kind of juice we need. Welcome to last podcast and love. We have a very special episode here. We have two of one of my newest truly favorite movie creators. What you guys are doing is fucking out of this world. The new movie bring her back is coming out. It's out now, right? Yes, by the time you hear this. It's out. It's out now. Bring her back. The directors of Talk to me as well. Danny Philipo and Michael Philipo welcome. Hello. Hello. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yes. Last studio audience here. We have two people in the back here. Yes. We owe you the robbers are producer. We got the gals. The gals. Making sure that you don't say anything to horrible.

3:09Our goal is to make you say the other thing. Yes. We're in a constant battle. I'm right there. I'm right there. So before we get started, I just want to say I love horror movies. Horror movies are probably my favorite genre of movies. So why have been terrified to watch Talk to me and I haven't watched it. I specifically did not watch this movie because I'm like, this scares the shit out of me. I want nothing to do with this. I watched it last night with my wife and fuck you. It's my wife. I had to sit there and see that. What is wrong with you? I'm sorry to your wife. I'm doing it. I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know. You know, you've got to get the talk to sound somehow. And then this morning, I woke up 7am, bright and early to see bring her back. Perfect breakfast film. I'm just trying to tell people, honestly, see the matinee. Like get in at 3 o'clock in the goddamn afternoon and just experience it sober.

4:11I was watching this movie. I had to pause it halfway through. I'm losing my fucking mind. I'm going nuts. I can't deal with this goddamn movie. It's too early in the morning. I got a beautiful dog. I'm like, I love you. Please kiss me. I'm like, all right. I'm going to kiss her to the dog. He's a bad guy. He's a bad guy. You guys love it. So I go make my breakfast and I start cutting my strawberries. And I got scared of the knife in my hand. Yes, because of the movie that you made. Yes. I was like, I was scared of myself. Because of what you guys did. I thought I would have been in breakfast. I'm actually just jealous. Why didn't you bought your dog in? I miss my dog and I haven't had a dog in quite a while. So you got to bring your dog next time. How much your dog's name? My dog. I got a new dog name Harley. I'm going to kill it. She had a 20 pound. She's 13. You don't have to wait long. Yeah. I got the funeral plans. Yeah. Can I pass? How do you guys? Because you guys made like stunt vids, right? Like you guys were doing. How does it get like, was it just a natural progression of filmmaking from there?

5:15Well, it was always, that was always the YouTube stuff was just practicing to become filmmakers. That was always the goal, always the aim. And you know, speaking of stunts, Michael couldn't be listed as one of the directors at the start of insurance for bringing her back. Because he was in Detroit having deaf matches. What does that mean? It's like an extreme form of professional wrestling where they use like light tubes and bob wire and real weapons and they cut each other up for real. It's like an extreme performance art blood sport. Well, I do it a documentary on it. Yeah, I was like, I will be in it. You look okay. You know what I'm good at. They're Australians. Yeah. So they're like naturally immune to certain types of damage. Yeah. Luckily, we brought a bar wire back. Yeah, you should have just taken it from the right, buddy. Listen, before we pull out Danny Moore, I need these films. I need you to eat a light bulb. You got to see it. It's visceral. It's bloody. It's good. It's nice. What was the, like, so just like you do that just for the thrill of it or is it one of those you just love physical action?

6:15Both. I think we've been obsessed with deaf match wrestling since little kids. Yeah. So we used to do it with our friends, unfortunately. But we had a big appearance that would literally not let the kids hang out of us. No way. Yeah, because we were so we were delinquents. We were actual delinquents. You just threatened to kill my dog. Yeah. I was jealous. It was out of envy. No, dude. You guys had fun charges, though. I looked at Wikipedia pages. Your charges are fun. Yeah, yeah. I remember you had a few fun charges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not nothing bad. Like really, like, nothing. Does this stuff that, honestly, just excited me about you? Yeah. Underwater cars. We got Michael got arrested for. So did I. Which was even my idea. I was a video. You shitty. You had an underwater car made and he didn't want to drive it. I was filming a Michael's terrible recording. That's an excuse for everything. Michael's so bad at recording. Michael's so bad at recording. Who said bad at recording? Like, do a scene and I tried to be in the videos. I tried to be in something and his footage is like out of focus. He's like punched it in a weird way. It's like, dude, just pointed at me in film it. Yes, but you were correct to be scared to get in an underwater car. Well, now I got in the underwater car.

7:15I was filming in there. Okay. Yes, I was in there. No, you weren't in there. You were going in there. I didn't know why there's lies being thrown around. I was waiting in the cops came and found you while you were in the middle of shooting. No, no, no. It was like, so the video came out and then suddenly, like a year later, I would go down. But don't you got arrested? It wasn't a year later. It was like a couple of months. Did anything get arrested? Getting arrested over making artists one of my favorite things in the face of the planet. It was so good, but I actually got arrested for pretending to be Michael. Yeah, sure. But then they arrested. And then Michael got arrested for the art. Yeah. They said I was like, I wanted to fill in. Like, I fled the country. I was like, I haven't been hiding or anything. I put the evidence on you too. Yeah, it's on you. But it's like a year-long lawsuit. What was the charge? Driving recklessly, driving dangerously, driving without a license, driving without a seatbelt, driving a car that's on the roof. Are you not American? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I said. What happened? How was littering?

8:15No, no, not littering. No, not littering. I've never wanted it in a bad one. They're pretty easy on littering, actually. No, but it was a big thing in the end that I got off Scott Freak. Because I wasn't actually driving dangerously, or recklessly. No, we actually, it was a stunt before. It was a stunt. It was a stunt. It was a stunt. The police said that they were going to have to recreate the underwater car to prove it was dangerous. I don't know what you had. You're going to do your own shit. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to make a ride. Why don't we go for a race, boys? Yeah. I'm not going to play. Let me do this. These guys don't know. Who everybody knows? This is the man who made black Panther. This is the man that made Creed that made me audibly weep in a theater. I cried masculine, big fat, masculine tears. You got Sylvester Stallone nominated for a second Oscar? I mean, I mean, I think he got himself nominated. Yeah, yeah, sure. We know how it is. We know how it goes. You're nice. We know. But the reason why you're hit, those movies are too important and good for us to talk about.

9:16This is something that we're talking about that is extremely amazing. This film, Sinners that you have made is coming out April 18th. You have come down to the horror world. You're making an extremely big thick ass horror movie that are people going to love and say thank you so much for talking to us people. Sinners wrote. I appreciate that you guys, man. That means the world. I love the genre. You got a sound. I'll come down to it. I feel like I was coming up to it. You know, I'm saying like, like, um, because when I was in, you know, before even with the film school, I was in the first, my first short film is I'll make we have, we have, we have horror elements to them. But I didn't feel like I was, I didn't feel like I was good enough to make that, to make that step yet, man. And, um, I kind of got away from it. What do you mean by like not, what do you mean by not good enough? We actually watched your movie locks. It's beautiful film. Like, I'm talking, I'm talking before locks, bro. Like, like, like, I always make this stuff before that. You know, like, locks, I think was like my second year of graduates.

10:18No, my second semester of graduate school. But I was making shorts when I was in undergrad when I first learned learned that I wanted to make movies in. And, and, and, and I made a couple things at SC, you know, um, that, that, you know, one of them, one of them actually was the thing that got me recommended for, for a fruitville. Um, but nobody, nobody will ever see all those movies. It wasn't, it wasn't legal for us to submit all those movies to festivals or anything like that. And they weren't good enough. But, um, but I've been, you know, I've been in love with the, with the genre of man and, and, and, want to, want to make something, uh, you know, in that zone, since I, since I learned I wanted to make movies, you know, it was my first, I was my first, my first instinct, uh, but then, you know, uh, you know, I made locks, locks was the first thing I could submit to festivals, you know, by something I wrote to the school and, um, ended up making things more and that, you know, you know, more and that tonality. Um, you know, but this was kind of a homecoming for me, uh, that, that folks who really know me who are around, you know, you know, I have, uh, I have this, this type of, um, this type of passion for horse cinema.

11:19Man, what are, what are your favorite horror movies? Yeah. We need to, yeah, I'm not just what inspired centers, but what, what inspires you in general, it's kind of, yeah, man, my favorite horror movies, man. Um, I would say number one is the thing. Yes. Um, now you consider that horror over sci-fi? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I consider the thing, cosmic horror. Um, you know, it definitely has, has science fiction elements as well. I must, I must tell you, bro, even though I love genre cinema, I don't like the concept of genre. Sure. I always mean, like having that, having that, having to classify things, especially like after, after, um, making this movie, you know, because I can research and, um, you know, the movie does with a lot of things, but, but, but it's drama action horror. It's everything. But you're talking something. It's like hereditary was the first time I'm seeing as an adult seeing a movie and I was like, horror is drama set on fire.

12:22Right? Like, I saw her. Hereditary is a big one for me. I love that movie. Yeah. When I watched sinners, the first thing I thought of it was, was truly refreshing about it is because yes, what you're saying, I see what you're saying. Yeah, it's a horror movie because of the elements that are within it. But all of the stuff feeds what the movie is about. Yes. Yes. No, no, 100%. Like, like, like, like the thing is, I always, I always work from the standpoint of, no, what my worst fear is as an artist. And I'm always kind of dealing with that in my movie. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And in this movie, I dealt with all of my worst fears or, or in this. I just dumped them all in there. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And, but what I was saying about genre was like, you know, and studying for this movie, I was studying Delta Blues music. And I discovered like, I discovered that that for a long time when the music business was like first commodified in this country, you know genre itself was a tool of racism.

13:30You know, like, like, for black person sang a song. And in a white person sang the same song. You know, they would put those two songs into two different genres. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then the white person sang the song. That might be called bluegrass. Or like, you know, you know, exactly. Exactly. And you know, the music industry, you know, came before the film industry. You know, you know, I'm saying like, it's a, it's an older industry. So, so, so a lot of the film business, it follows the whims of music. Because it's an older industry. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that, that tradition is what causes like certain genres to be kind of like get a lot. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like, like, like this, this genre is beneath this genre. The horror movie is beneath the, the, the, the costume drama. You know what I'm saying? Like this, this thing. So, so whenever, whenever I hear it with this one, and I'm trying to define it or we're not trying to like classify a movie like Rosemary's Baby.

14:30You know what I was thinking about that? What exactly would you call it? Yes, it is horror elements. But it's like a, it's mostly a drama. Yeah, exactly. Like, like, right. So, so, so, so you realize you realize it becomes, you know, like that had this ridiculous rule. That the movie and tear gas like called the one drop rule. Like for, for, for human beings, right? And, and, and it's kind of that time when we're never trying to, trying to put the, you know, when they try to, when they try to stick a part tie on type of, on top of humanity. They said, oh, if you got one drop of black blood, now that makes you black. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yeah. Which is, which is, which is so absurd when you, when you, when you hear this, but it's also, you know, you think about that with movies. It's like, hey, you got, you got one, you got a couple of horror scenes. Now, it's a horror film. You know, you know, you know, it's like, and it's like, well, it's Rosemary's Baby. Like, like, how are we going to talk about this movie? Because, because the vast majority of it, you know, as a husband, a husband and wife talking to their neighbors. You know, you know, you know what I mean in that? Yeah. And, and, and, and, and so, so, so, so for me, you know, my favorite horror movies that they all are going to have.

15:38Element of like a question mark. I like, y'all, is that a horror movie? Because, because, because look, I'll tell you straight up, like, I think Steven Spielberg has created some of the most horrific images known to man. Like, like, you know, with jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, whatever. Raiders that they ain't, they ain't anything, bro. I'm not going to have to do any pops to think. But, but also man, I move like Jurassic Park. Like, like, like, like the, like some of those velociraptor sequences, the opening of the velociraptor sequence when a guy is eating. Yeah. And, and by something in a box that you can't see, you know, or, or the T-Rex sequence when he is, is running and night in the cup is rippling and, and, you know, he's coming, coming by that, coming by the, you know, coming by the car and his breathing on the glass. The, the, the velociraptor, opening the door. Yeah. And the car was on the, on the kitchen, on the kitchen tile. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like, you know, it's just so scary. It literally scares dogs. Like, you know, so much footage of it, like, scaring dogs. So, like, you know, how scary dogs know it's scary.

16:39Yeah, dog, yeah, dogs, not fucking with it. You know, like, make it that thing off. Yeah. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is an all in one website platform that helps you stand out online. Yes, that's right. You don't have to smash your face for the hammer. You can just start a business. It's got everything you need on Squarespace from securing your domain, to building a professional site and showcasing your work all in one place. Let's say you want to show everybody how you can carve your ribs out of your lower abdomen, so that you look more like a kendall. That's amazing. You can bring your vision to life with AI-powered design or curated templates, plus flexible editing tools that help you create something that truly reflects your style, especially if you are somebody that is trying to corrupt the young men of America. That's what Squarespace is really going to help you. Squarespace makes it easy. It makes it easy for you to put all of it together, and you just go to Squarespace and do it all. Thanks, Braden. Head to squarespace.com slash left for a free trial.

17:40And when you're ready to launch, use offer code left to save 10% off your first purchase of a website for domain. This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Maintaining my mental health is crucial, navigating our podcast network through the choppy waters of the culture war. And I just want to say thank you, BetterHelp, for allowing me to see further, see more clearly, hear more dearly, and know the more dearly, BetterHelp. I say day by day, mental health awareness is growing, but they're still progress to be made. Many people avoid seeking mental health of support due to fear of judgment or stigma. Thankfully, I'm immune. When people hesitate to get help, it doesn't just affect them. It impacts families, workplaces, and entire communities, much like how my family and friends got together to beg me to talk to a therapist. Let's encourage everyone to take care of their well-being and break the stigma.

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20:42Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required, availability speed and coverage varies. See MintMobile.com. I am more impressed with you, the more I look at your stuff. Now, I'm talking about my talking about your body. I'm talking about your work, because I've looked at this and this stuff is very interesting. And it's also, you know, it's like it. Yeah, but also I like it. I dived in pretty hard last night. It's wild. This is very interesting. I'm so excited to have you here. The filmmaker, Paul Oxelolz for the internet. And soon to be for the silver screen, we have cane pixels of the back rooms. AKA cane Parsons. Yes. Hey guys. Or just can't. Yeah, or just can't. Yeah, I came. I'm just a guy. I don't, I don't have a name. Oh, yeah. I like this. I look at you. You're in, you're fluorescent light. You look like you're in the back rooms.

21:43Yes. Right now. And you're frightening me. Oh, thank you. This is all. That's what I try to do. I'm really afraid it's going to be one of those where I'm going to blink. I'm going to be in front of one of those weird grates. Very frightening. It's really honestly extremely frightening. But you created, well, you worked with the idea, which I guess was sort of a collective idea. Right. I mean, internet urban legend. But more so, it was kind of like a series of kind of spooky images. Yeah. I can break it down. Yeah. Yeah. Break it down if you like. I don't know. Okay. So just like the, and stop me if you've heard this before or maybe this is good for the audience. It originated in a very unconventional way, this idea of the back rooms where it initially started as basically somebody took a photo of really just what looked like. I mean, many of you have probably seen the original back rooms photos, which is kind of like an off yellow,

22:43dingy, un-renovated backspace with like 50 different wallpapers all clashing against each other, like horrible ugly fluorescence with like stain ceiling tiles. And someone took that. It ended up on 4chan. No one knows where it came from. Just given the nature of the site. It's all anonymous. And that ended up getting reposted to another board along with a caption that again, another anonymous user added, which basically outlined this premise, which is like the one that most people know, like the one that you typically were originally accompanied that image, which is, I don't, I somehow don't have it memorized verbatim, but it's essentially saying like, if you no clip out of reality in the wrong areas, which for those who don't know is like a gaming slash 3D design term, where if you just like move through like a phase through a physical object, if you no clip out of reality in the wrong areas, you will end up in the back rooms, where it's just this infinite, never ending, basically just what you see in that image. It's like you're stuck in the back rooms of a empty sears forever.

23:45Yeah, it reminds me. I was going to show you called your pretty face is going to hell, and it is sort of similar in the aspect of the, a almost commercial hellscape that you go to, where it's a series of almost cubicles looks almost the liminal spaces. Yeah, liminal spaces. That's the term that popped up. Yep. Yes, it looks like society at one point was thriving, and now it's dying and we're stuck fending through what's left. Yeah, you're like, in what I kind of felt this thing. Yes. Yeah. It's all fucked up and super scary. Lots of dark imagery. I fucking love what you're doing. I think it's great. Um, you're, you're the original short film blew my mind. Yeah. Just in terms of when realizing how shitty was a found footage horror. I do, but I also was really impressed with the digital build. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's really where a lot of my background is. I've been picking away at an initially started with just after effects.

24:47I would use some like element 3D for those who, who dabble and know what that is. But around the time during the pandemic is when I, I had a bunch of free time. I was still in high school. Um, I mean, the pandemic hit when I was in my freshman year of high school. And in that time, which I mean, for me, just given my age, that feels so long ago now because just time goes so slowly right now. It's starting to pick up. It's definitely going very fast right now. The past two years. Oh, man. Years. So much of life. It's just like, oh, that was like six high schools, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've been alive for like eight presidents. That's my real life. That's, that's something I'm seeing more and more. And it's something I've had like a fixation on for a long time to the, this accelerating passage of time. Yeah. But, um, with that, I, I initially got my start on YouTube. Like, well, I don't want to say my start because I'd been around for a while. I started my channel in 2015 doing like Minecraft, let's place. And like whatever like eight year old kids do on the internet. But this is like, you were already being like, I'm going to make stuff. I'm going to make. Yeah. Yeah.

25:47I've had that instinct for a while. Um, it just kind of, um, it wasn't as defined until I would say around middle school and high school when I started really pushing out CGI driven, um, like science fiction horror films. Uh, and that led to, I did this little mini web series, I guess I would call it a series. It's more like an, I don't know, an extended art piece of little vignettes from the attack on Titan series. Yes. Yes. Very cool stuff. I worked those last night. I love them, dude. Oh, thank you. Thank you. He has not. What the hell attack on Titan? No idea. I'm very captivated by what you created. I appreciate it. Yeah. That was like the, um, that was like the first. Dude, you're talking, I just wish that you could even understand what a breakthrough it is for this hamhawk of a man. Yes. To embrace attack on Titan fan made content. Well, that's how good. That's what you did. You broke, you made this man on think about anime. Yeah, man. It's usually just ham and, you know, I'm so sorry dogs. Yeah.

26:47It's just like, tits and dogs. It's only watches. Well, that's an honor. Truly. Yeah, with that, it's, it's, it was really my attempt to like take, I was more of a reader than a watcher of the anime. I read the manga and like I tried to take the feeling that I got from that body of work that I felt like was kind of lost in the anime and lost in like the broader community where it, when reading it, it feels a lot more gloomy and really quite. The anime injects sort of like an epicness to it almost, which I never really personally connected with. So I just tried to like come back from that and just make my own little thing that had that feeling to it. And it really took off. That's what like took my channel from I think it was like 20,000s, which is not an instinctive and insignificant. No, no, it's correct. It took it from 20,000 to 200,000s. So it, um, that's what really made me realize like YouTube could be a viable way forward. And that was the beginning of 2021. And then later that year on Thanksgiving, I decided to, because I had been, um, I was familiar with the backrooms as a meme, like since 2019, since it first surfaced.

27:55And it wasn't huge back then, but it definitely over the years into the pandemic sort of permeated, made its way around everyone. Oh, the liminal space thing took over 2020. Yeah, yeah, it did. And it's sort of, although reviewing trends, not as much as they did in 2022. Um, but it sort of blad around everywhere. Everyone was kind of vaguely aware of it. Um, they probably saw some things on, uh, I'm not on TikTok, but, but TikTok is where a lot of this stuff kind of melded together. Were you just interested or did what was it about it that struck a chord with you? I think I would, okay. So on a few fronts, I was never the biggest, like, diehard liminal space fan in quotes, whatever that means. Um, I would definitely, it's such a funny concept of like, uh, I'm a huge liminal space fan. I was like empty room. Oh, your liminal space fan. Uh, name four liminal spaces at your face. Believe me, that's a thing. That's a thing. I, I have been very online for the past couple of years.

28:55I've kind of seen a lot of people in this space and believe me, some people, uh, know like the exact hex codes of every pixel of every image of, uh, I've ever been to a train station. Wait until you find about the, uh, about the normal. Um, yeah, but continue. I'm sorry. Uh, so those videos, like, videos of like, liminal spaces with eerie music or like Minecraft music playing over them. Like nostalgic slash creepy slash whatever, uh, I would get those on my, uh, uh, YouTube page every now and then they now and again over the course of like 2020, 2021, that period, which is, um, really a ton of time. But those soaked into my psyche, they were all learning for reasons that were hard to explain. And I think that's what most people felt. Like the whole idea is that it kind of connects with you on a very unconscious or at least like, it resonates, but you can't quite explain why and that's why people find it so interesting. Like now, my shit, I fucking hate one horror movie over explains like don't explain it.

29:57It's better a mystery. And that's why your shit freaks me out because I'm watching it and I'm like, there's no rhyme or reason to any of this. It's just like, I mean, maybe there is an I'm an idiot, which is happens to me. There is, but it's in kind of the very. Yeah, it's buried. When you do that when, because we were remarking upon your ability to create dread in a very, because that's what little spaces do, right? That's the whole thing is that it's a unfinished. It's the valley. It's uncanny. It's a weird place. It's where things drift in between. Obviously, we're all kind of, but what you did, like can you actually talk to me about the filmmaking process of working in a fully digital world like that? Because I'll tell you, Skinner Meringue wishes it was the back. Oh my God, the whole time I was watching it. I mean, this is our opinion, not yours. I wish I could commentate. I haven't seen still, Meringue. Don't, don't, don't, don't, keep working. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't watch it. You don't want to. I can't even inspired by you even talking to us. Get back to work.

30:57To work. I can't watch it now. Yeah, that's it. I mean, that reaction is pretty intense. And that's why people like it. But what do you think is like what's your little trick? What's a trick? So blender. I use blender. It's a free software. I use that for all my 3D visuals. I work on just this one laptop. I mean, if you see my workspace, it's a standing desk with this one laptop. That's it. I mean, I have some cameras as well, but only in recent years have I sort of picked those up from like the money that YouTube stuff has made. Average budget for the stuff I make is like maybe $10 to $0 beyond like the starting cost of the laptop itself. And more recently, I've been using like overseas render farms because it's been getting pretty intense. Turning stuff out in a timely manner. But if let me think like what the, I would say creatively like the way I did that first backroom short, it was more funny enough considering how it's like the thing I'm most known for now.

31:58It was originally just kind of like a palette cleanser exercise I did for myself, where I was. That's weird. All that shit is. It's always. It always seems to happen that way. Yeah. I was tired from doing the attack on Titan videos felt like I had exhausted that. I was looking at some liminal space images just thought to myself because I've always had a very strong personal relationship with just like locations and buildings. And I mean, it's not like a hugely stated thing, but you know, like I guess maybe it's being sentimental or maybe it's just. Having appreciation for the way design can affect emotion and like the flow of human traffic and things like that. But those things have always just been like underlying themes in my life. And so I think that's probably why liminal spaces and whatever you want to call that connect with me so much it's sort of like you appreciate a living room. You appreciate a kitchen. You appreciate a bedroom. But you don't usually appreciate like the hallway going there. It feels like it's almost like if you're thinking of these as people, they're like the people who don't get any credit for upholding the whole infrastructure of human civilization in a way. Which is like such a weird way to humanize it.

32:59But that's kind of the feeling that I got. And I mean, you can take that for like abandoned places to like places that it feels like that place wants to be maintained and remembered. And so it's just rotting. So it's kind of the same feeling. But I looked at that original background image thought can I evoke the same emotion in a video form because I haven't seen any videos really of like all these are all stationary images. What if I tried to remake capture this feeling in blender? Did that posted a little teaser to Instagram because it was just going to be like a 15 second shot initially. People liked it and then from there I decided to just make a whole short around that one shot. It's it's the shot of if you remember it. The chair flying and hitting the wall. That was the first ever one I did and I never like re did it or anything. I just left that in and built the rest of the short and both ends around it. And then it did very well. I did not expect it at all. I expected it to major the underperform and from there I I can get more into the technical stuff like sorry.

33:59I have a tendency to go a little off rails with this but that's why we that's the purpose of this. Please treat us like total morons. We're more on this and like and wait. I want to learn everything about what you're doing because not only is it incredibly successful, but if fucking shook me to my core last night. Yeah, you got really deep. And so I think it's amazing. I love I kind of if I'm catching what what I'm what you're saying here is you liked the liminal thing and you saw it and you're like I can fucking do that. And then you did and you nailed it and it were kind of like I'm you know it reminds me of like it's not necessarily what you are want to do with the rest of your life. I'm guessing here. I'm guessing here. You know, but you fucking you're better at it than anyone else and it reminds me a lot and this is a crazy comparison. But how fucking Bob Dylan started. He wasn't a protester but he's like he was listening to the protest music. He's like I can write better protest music to that and then became one you know and then became the best at it.

35:00You know, and it's like and so that's what I'm kind of sensing from you. And what you're doing right now is terrifying. But I'm curious does it scare you your art or do you just find it cool? You know, it's kind of like where what makes with I kept thinking of the whole time and watching. I'm like are you just sitting behind a computer like freaking out or you just enjoying it? That's happened before. It's it's more the and also that Bob Dylan comparison is is quite high praise. But but the making of it has kind of recently become more technical I would say as it becomes more of a job. That's something I've been thinking about. And every now and then there'll be a project where it does feel more fluid and more alive in a way where it's kind of like an interacting with a thing outside myself. That can be said very heavily for the series I did after back room. Well, I'm still doing back rooms, but it's kind of the movie deal has caused the YouTube end of it to kind of pause. But I'm all of that started to pick up like right now in my own life.

36:00I don't know when this podcast will go out, but like this is it's coming back to my life now and hopefully back to YouTube in the nearest future. But the series they did after that was called the oldest few. I would consider that my best work to date probably more than back rooms. But it's it's this the mall one that I made a tiny hint at earlier, which I can talk about in a moment because it's the one I'm. The production of that is probably the most interesting to talk about and kind of talk about it was what yeah, we just watched it's fucking awesome. They don't need any introduction. They are the scum dogs of the universe squad. They don't need any, but we want a better one than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are international rock and roll sensation from the other galaxies of the universe. That's right. We're come dogs for the scum dogs. Yeah, fuck it can dick. You're the only way. Yeah, he was dirty. Dude, fuck it. I want to say we got to.

37:01Have a guy thought about Botox. Like you guys thought about. What are you like? What are you talking about? You don't know what they're saying. They're like, they're in LA for five minutes. You're thinking about like, do you ever want to keep up with the Joneses? Like does the Instagram make you jealous? No, I just need a dentist. This shit really hurts. I'm looking for a dentist. Have you ever thought about ozemp it? Yeah, yeah. They keep saying it. They keep saying it, but obviously you won't take you like like you've got type three. I am talking about your feet. I still got my feet. I still got my feet. I just didn't know whether or not there's any pressure for the unrealistic beauty standards for you guys now that because you guys are obviously I'm happy with. I'm happy with myself. I'm content in my own skin. But there's a lot of pressure. You know, you're absolutely right though. There's an unfair standard of beauty that as a woman in the business, I have to ask you know, nobody asks as just back how old he is.

38:01No, but that's the first question they ask. I'm just looking at me and then looking at me. Well, you're the least single. You're the most righteous and you're the most wendsteffani. And then pigs like you ask me if I've had Botox. I just want our audience to understand that not everything that says appears it does on social media. And then when they see you and they look up to you and they think that that's like that's what I want to strive for and be. I want them to understand. There's a whole process to that. That's right. It's not just the filter. You can't get this. It's not an Instagram filter. No. There's a lot of I use a lot of filler. Blah from your way. So welcome to last podcast and left and we have a very special person on this guy. Honestly, what's funny about this man is that not only is he on his way to becoming an extremely powerful man in Hollywood. And is he becoming a legitimate and crazy director? The used man started from the humble humble beginnings of sketch comedy. Oh, don't say it. Just like us. Just like our shit filled lives.

39:03He pulled you. He pulled himself up from the swamp. And he made it to the big time. What do you think you better than me? Yeah. You thought you fucking tough. You fucking don't know. Nice, which a fancy clear glasses. This is the director of the new hit weapons and the former hit current hit barbarian. And one of the lore creatures of whitest kids you know, Zach Krekker. Thank you for being here. I'm so thrilled to be here. I love the show and it's what it's a treat. Thank you so much. Henry, have you talked about how you came in to help me with barbarian? I only. Only little little pieces that I came in and I because I didn't even know what the full extent of my voice was used. Well, sadly, it wasn't. God, I was. Wow. Okay. I was. It was very kind of you to help though because what was going on? I was trying to get the screen down for the mother and I just could not get the screen. And I was listening to your podcast and you were doing some fucking character and you just like very casually went like and then go like,

40:08Oh, you did this like amazing blood curdling shriek and I was like, that's. That's what I want. I was like in the street. I was like, that he did it. And so I got a hold of you and you were so kind to come in and and I made you scream for 20 minutes. It was awesome. And it was my pleasure. Yes, it was my pleasure. No, it was so much fun. I actually, it's a good bring up. So like we know each other from way back in the day. Why this kids was always held as like this wonderful steam because we. The goal. The goal. I'm sure you hated us just like every other sketch group hated you know what dude? It was nice is that you guys were awesome. Each one of you was extremely sweet to us. And you never made us feel stupid. We were told because we were the only other independent sketch comedy group that when we arrived, we were like a part of a pastiche of independent sketch comedy groups. And like you were like kind of the Bastion. You guys were the light on the hill that like, oh, if you just, if you're just funny and you're right place right time,

41:09they give you a television show. And then you sealed up the door behind you. You really did. That was part of our deal. We're like close the door. Yeah. But the part of sketch comedy, I feel like now we're seeing we even had Peter been trying to help us for a hot second. He couldn't do shit with us. He was like, we were a fucking disaster. We were hammered. We were discussed. That was the problem. You think we weren't hammered? Are you kidding? God damn it. It's all going to work. It's all going to work. But a lot of people now like, you know, Jordan Peele, a lot of people are seeing this connection between horror and comedy. And I think it's getting kind of like, everybody's saying sort of the same thing, right? Where that comedy hinges on timing and visceral response, which is very similar to humor. But I think it's deeper than that. Oh, tell me. Tell me. Well, no, I wanted to ask you if you felt that exercising dark ideas through sketch comedy actually creates a darker vision for like the world in general.

42:12What an amazing question that I have never really considered. And I think you could be right. And here's where I'm going to go with you on this journey here is because all the brain storming that we would do to sit down and just start like, okay, sketch ideas, sketch ideas. You know, because we've all been there like, what would be crazy? You just start pushing your brain to think of like, what's an extreme situation? And I did that all day, every day for, I don't know how many fucking years I committed all of myself to white is because I'm basically a decade. Yeah, you know, same. So I think like if there's a gym, you know, like a mental gym, I was working out the muscle group that was like, how far can I go? You know, how can I, how can I go left when I should go right? So maybe that's, maybe that's in there. I feel like movies are almost like a series of sketches, like getting you from scene to scene in a weird way. Do you think that horror movies like comedies hinge on pivotal scenes or versus entire arcs?

43:15Well, that's a great question too. I think look, a horror movie must have scenes that scare you, right? If you want a horror movie and you're never actually scared, but it's telling a great story, it doesn't mean it's a bad movie. It just means it's probably not really a horror movie. It's a drama. So yeah, or it's a mystery. It's a thrill, whatever it is, you know, I don't know. But I mean, the best horror movies will have those, but they'll still, like you could take the scares out and they would still tell a compelling story. Like the shining is still a fascinating story, even if it wasn't, you know, as viscerally terrifying as it is. Because I want to know, I want to track this guy's decline, and I want to watch how his family has to react. I think that's a really engaging story. So I'm trying to think of like a terrifying horror movie where if you took all the scares out, it would be like, let's, let's examine terrifying to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, terrifying to which is like for me, I view that even closer to like a comedy in terms of you have set pieces. Like terrifying to has set pieces that the movie is sort of moving towards that it.

44:15Yes. So these things to collide where like you did that so well in weapons with the kind of way you told the story where you set four lines out at each other, then they all collide together. Yeah. But terrifying to is a much more deeply simplified version of what you did. You know, like it's a much more simplified, it's much more direct. And obviously it's like, we got to kill a bunch of people will like, you know, like terrifying to, you know, the idea is to get just piles of guts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is just just kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. By the way, I really like terrifying to when I went to frightfest in 2022, the only movie I was like, I got to clear my schedule to go see terrifying to because I had been, I loved terrifying one. I was like, I can't believe I had to wait like this many years to see this fucking thing. I am, I am ready. So I was really happy. I mean, I'm into it. I'm lying to all of them at once just because I was literally scared to see him.

45:18Yeah, yeah, because I just like, I don't know if I can handle all this core. And then so I was just like, then we interviewed David Howard Thornton. So I just watched all three, like right in a row. And that was fucking, that's the way to do it. And he's the set's little co co co poke Southern boy. River talk to him. The clown. Oh, he's all like, well, Gigali, I don't even know how all this. I just a theater, but I just I love musicals and I, and it was amazing. Honestly, yeah, in I last night, I had the pleasure of seeing weapons in a packed theater Wednesday night. Yeah, a theater Tuesday night. I saw it in a pack theater and not just that it was playing in multiple theaters at once. And it was like everyone was going to see weapons. It was fucking awesome. That's wild. But the reality there was a part in this that I wondered people were talking in the lobby. Oh, yes, everybody always hanging out the lobby. You have such a great like when you were making, when you were making this movie, you ever see Exorcist 3? Did you put Exorcist 3? Of course I've seen Exorcist 3. I think it's amazing.

46:20Did you, did you, were you inspired at all by Exorcist 3? Because I think you have one of the best jump scares that I've seen in a fucking minute. Dead in the world. I'm not here talking about this ceiling. Yes. I mean, that's got to come from Exorcist 3. But that's kind of a combination of three jump scares. Obviously, the Exorcist 3 ceiling gag is not a jump scare. It's just deeply off-putting. Yes. You know, it's, and it's great. It's mesmerizing. And I love it. The Exorcist 3 jump scare, which is to my, for my money in the top five of all time, is the hallway crash zoom on that fucking lady with the, the, the scissors. That to me, I get in the hair on my neck standing up right now. I was thinking about that scare. It's so good. I don't know how it freaked me out so much the first time I saw it. And it's one of those scares where I could still put it on right now. And it would still kind of get me. You know, I love it so much. The other one, and this is a little less like hip cred here, but the conjury, dude. The Bathsheba on top of the arm-wire. Oh. But it tilted up and she jumps. I was not ready for that, dude. That annihilated me in the theater.

47:20Dude, the first conjury fucked me up. It was the bed. Dude, the clapping sequence. It's ruthless. I always think of it as Sidious too, though, which is my other big commercial one. Where I almost killed my mother. Because I knew it was coming. I knew they, we saw with my mom and I knew the devil, the fire devil scene was coming. And so I cried over the shoulder. Yeah. I crawled behind the chair that she was sitting in. I pretended to go to the bathroom and I crawled behind the chair and it's a popped up. I almost fucking killed her. But I was so worth it. But I do believe that's an insidious one if I'm not sick. Yes, yes, Sidious. That's my other favorite jump scare. But when you're thinking about the movie, when you're writing it, do you think about it in that way? For those jump scares, for stuff like that. Because in weapons, it came at a very specific moment. It felt like you were like, it almost felt like the movie kicks in. You're watching it all of a sudden, it was like the movie changed. Is that on purpose?

48:23To a degree, yeah. So my writing process is usually very stream of consciousness. I don't outline. I don't know where I'm going to go. So like, I remember the first pass I did at that point in Justine's chapter. I actually didn't really know where the kids went. I didn't know what was behind them running away. So I was kind of like just like improvising. And so I don't think I put that ceiling scene nightmare in because I didn't know that gladis existed. Yeah. And so I'm glad to show up for you. I think in the in the cop stuff when I was getting into Paul and the cop and the junkies when I kind of figured it out. So I think by the time I wrote James's chapter, I had that idea. I was like, the kids are in the basement. Why the like, why would the kids be in Alex's basement? It just felt like it's where they had to be. And then I then I just kind of had this idea of like, this is going to sound really woo-woo. And I really don't like to talk about the meaning of the movie. But I have said this before. So I guess I can let this much out of the bag because it's already out. But like the gladis and Alex chapter to me is just about living with an alcoholic parent.

49:25I grew up in an alcoholic household. My dad died of cirrhosis, you know, and it's a terrible thing that comes into a family dynamic. And it changes everything. And so, you know, I had a happy house. And then something came into my house and it turned my dad into a scary person. And I'd go to school and everything's cool. And I'd go home and I'd have a scary house with a scary dad. You know, and so like that to me felt so interesting. And this is such a personal movie. So it's like it's still a rather good story. There's no overarching lesson in this movie. This is not like I have nothing to say with this movie. I'm not, I have no pretence of like this is a treatise or anything like that. It's just a diary entry for me. And it just felt good to kind of have this dynamic at the core of it. That is something that I feel really a personal connection to that had a ripple effect out into this town. And so that's all that is. Lies from North Rape. Last podcast on the left is excited to collaborate with Audible. Audible has a massive range of ad-free crime fiction, nonfiction and true crime podcasts.

50:29You know, there's so many things you could do while you're listening to an audiobook. You can clean up your own personal crime scene. And that's easy to do and you can learn it all from books. Some people also listen to audiobooks to go to sleep. But you could check out podcasts like this American Life titles from true crime grates like Michael Connolly and Agatha Christie and Audible originals like Dr. Death. Look how boy. You can find whatever you're looking for unaudible. Plus you can multitask while you do it. Find your next mystery unaudible. Audible. Stories that speak to you. New members can start listening with a 30 day free trial at audible.com slash left. Woohoo! Woo! Yep! Woohoo! Yee-ho! Bye-bye! Man, we got our Omaha steak boxes today. My Omaha steak box arrived for our personal experience. And I got to say just opening it up made me excited.

51:30The steam of the dry ice, the gleam of all of the meat products. And you know what it has is one of my favorite things and my selections. It's like, because obviously I love a big steak. Yeah. But they do get the little baby steaks. Those little poppers. You can eat three or four of them on a go. Do they catch steaks for oysters? That's my favorite. Because they're good for breakfast. You can do five or six in a go. Go to Omaha steaks. This is not even just like, yeah, sure they gave us meat. And yeah, sure they pay us money. But honestly, they're really good meat. Yeah, you like fat dogs. And I ain't talking about regular dogs. I'm talking about these fat dogs. Hot dogs. Man, those are dogs. Maybe it's talking. They are thick as Andre the Giants fingers. Honestly, I'm like worried about where I'm going to get a bun that can support these thick dogs. I'll show you where to get one. Thank you. Try the burger perfection flight at OmahaStakes.com today. That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99. Let's get $35 off with promo code left.

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54:31Now, many people would say many people, my manager, my family, 30 people. A lot of people might say that when a broadcaster has found himself interviewing a dog, that that would be the low point of their career. Absolutely. But why is it my high point? I'm going to say I'm thrilled today to be joined with the wonderful, absolutely good boy, Dr. Henry Indiana Jones. It's so good to have you here. How have you been? How are you enjoying LA? Have you gone out to, have you tried the vegan food yet? Have you been to the chateau? Oh, you would do great at the chateau. Have you gone to the chateau because honestly, I feel like that's like one of those things were the scene at the chateau. Would suit you.

55:31Yeah, it would really, you would look good there. You would be good there. And if you wanted to, you can go to the bathroom and call it the chateau. Nothing, huh? Well, nothing on that. You punts. Your father, Ben Leoneberger directed this film. Do you feel that he in many way sort of, I don't know, because your dog might have skirted around some of the child labor laws? Yeah. Do you know that Ben is actually, I hate to do this. What? Not your father? Don't do this. No, I mean, but he's not, I mean, obviously, you're a dog and he's a man. And you're not his son. Ben is the father that stepped up. Yeah. So how do you feel about your stepfather? So tell me, when you first got this script, how did you choose it? Was it one of those where like, you know, you've been auditioning for years and you're like finally, like, this is me.

56:31I am in this film right? Or is it just because you needed the money? Yeah. And you put on the wait for Beethoven. Bucking nothing. Jesus Christ. Nothing, huh? You know, I don't know whether or not you're being paid by big government to be silenced. Yeah. But you got to understand that part of your job as an actor is to do promo. Okay? Yeah. You got to hit the road. You got to get out there and talk to people about your movie. Or no one's going to go fuck and see it. Nobody's going to see it unless you press it. You know, this is like when we try to have Billy Bob Thornton. Yeah. We had Billy Bob Thornton in one time and he literally showed up dressed as a French mime and he didn't speak on it. And you wouldn't even know it was Billy Bob Thornton. He also ate his own shit. Yes. Which is like, he said something was about like, he said human composting. Yeah. He said that was his new diet or whatever. Have you ever met Billy Bob?

57:33Hmm. I'm just. Wow. I just wonder if this silence has anything to do with some of those recent. Are you in the pop steam files? Are you in the pop steam files? Are you in the pop steam files? Answer us. Where is it? Did you take popsteens plane? Were you one dog little little one? Because it's legal for you. There is no there is no age of consent. Dogs can pregnant before they're one. Yeah. So it's not even that big of a deal. Now, now that you're like, you're an actor, do you still believe in money over bitches? Yeah. Now that you can get anything you want, any kind of treat that you want, any kind of, you know, you can get a heart guard sent to the house. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, what was your first expenditure? Yeah, I get being shy. Yeah. He wants to appear. Like, you know what it is, I get it in a way that he wants to appear like he's still one of us. I'm sure. I'm sure.

58:33Did, now, are you in SAG or WAG? About non-union. Non-union. We're gonna talk about that with Ben. Non-union. That's a boo. That is a non-union. Not a good look. Not a good look. Hey, baby. No, no, no. Yeah, don't watch it for that. Poos. Oh, actually, no, they shot Montana. Oh, so they don't care. Interesting. Montana doesn't care. They just hoard water there. They do hoard water. Well, you're not gonna answer our hardcore questions. I don't know what you're gonna do when you go on Access Hollywood app after us. Yeah. I can't believe that. Good boy. He's a bad dog. You're a bad dog. Bad dog. Bad boy. Bad dog. Bad boy. I don't like being around you. You're lying. No, don't do that. No, it's not true. You know it's not true. He's very attractive. He's the handsome, this person in this room. Yeah. God, I bet you get all the bitches. All right, let's try to talk to his fucking father. It's not his father.

59:33He's not your father. I'm your friend. Now, your lead actor was a bit difficult at the top of the interview. Yeah, what up with that? Yeah, I mean, he refused to read a script for the entire duration of the shoot. He really doesn't understand that he's in a movie. I cannot say that enough. It's like him, Gary Bucey. When did the second chances start? You know, like when did like how often are we going to do this? These guys that don't understand, you can't pee in front of everybody. The trick is figuring out how to make a movie around them. Yeah. Genuinely, that's what it takes is that, you know, Indy doesn't understand he's in a movie. I thought we were still talking about Gary Bucey. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he does that. That might be how it works. You're like, you're Gary. I'll say. Get there. Get his phone, Gary. Over here. Live from North Laid. Oh, man. I love just how it's spooky even talking to you over Zoom. We can't even really just even bring the audience in.

1:00:34We had a little bit of a technical, core fluffal, but it's still frightening. Because we're watching it. It seems like I don't know why. I don't know what it is, but your energy that they're the tubes are afraid of. But we have a, the one of our new horror icons. Yes. And we're very excited to have the actor who portrays Art the Clown. Nay is Art the Clown. David Howard Thornton. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Are there any clowns that you would like study to get manorisms? Or is this all just like you? Oh, yeah, definitely. So I mean, I grew up watching a lot of the great silent comedians and clowns. I mean, I was watching like, you know, Mark's brothers and Charlie Chaplin and all, even like Immacalee Jr. and Immacalee and, um, gosh. Mr. Bean was a huge influence on me as well. Yeah. Marcel Marceau, Peter Sellers, you know, Don Nots. I could just go on and on list all these Jim Carrey, just on and on and on.

1:01:34Actually, Stefan, who I understood for Grinch, he was professionally trained in clowning in mind work. So I took a lot of what I learned from Stefan and put it into art. You can actually watch videos of Robbie Rotten and compare them to Art the Clown. And you'll see probably a lot of similarities with mannerisms. That's interesting. Now, is there any music that like you would listen to to kind of like getting the mood, you know, just like do you like play circus music or something before you get out there? No, not really. I mean, not for myself, but like I a lot of the times in the chair when Damon, especially in parts wanted to and Damon was doing my makeup, he was listening to a lot of yacht rock. Yeah. That's what I think is so funny. People probably think Damien's like this hardcore badass listening to heavy metal all the time. No, man, he grooves to yacht rock. He loves yacht rock and 80s music. We will drive like when we're going to set something like two hour, three hour drive, sometimes upstate. We would just be sitting there listening to like yacht rock and 80s music the whole entire time just grouping out.

1:02:37That's that's just how we are. But like for myself, though, I will sometimes just for shits and giggles put on something. I sometimes would like to put on like the song, Danny Elfman's song from the first Batman movie with the the Joker's like on Waltz to the death. Oh, yeah. That's just always that always just puts me that little wacky little Mr. this evil clown type of mode. So sometimes I would just think that in my head if I have to go a little bit, little bit nuts. I guess you could say. Yeah. Do you feel like now that the movie got like terrifying or three probably got the biggest like budget, the most legit budget? Yes. How is it going from being driven by the director to set who would do the makeup and then you'd shoot obviously probably like five. How much such the most su-string crew possible to like an actual movie like movie set. Like how like sort of you mess or is there anything what's better.

1:03:37Oh, we still had a lot of the old school field to it all because we weren't a full online traditional movie set where we didn't have the honey wagons or anything like that. So it wasn't a big hugely, but it was we did have you know makeup team that came in this time. And so that was definitely a nice thing to have there because it allowed Damian more freedom too because he wasn't having to stop my making and go on to set and do stuff that come back and do my makeup more and so. That was nicer in that way, but yeah, we're still not like what you traditionally see here in Hollywood on a set. So we were still have that that you know independent feel to a lot of things because they changed the makeup to right then they do it thing because it used to be sort of despair different separate pieces. And then they just made it a whole mask for you essentially. No, it was always a one whole mask, but the original mask wasn't even molded to my face. It was Mike Giannelli's original mold. Yeah, so it didn't fully fit my face. Damian always had a manipulated suit fit my face.

1:04:39But this time Christian Tinsley who his team that did our makeup for this one on part three. They actually getting new sculpt in mold of my face. So it's a little bit more gaunt than the last one was because Damian wanted art to be more gaunt and this one. It looked good. Oh, I love I love the look. And they also gave me a score, a score lenses for for my eyes this time. So I my eyes were different. And like part two, I had my natural green eyes and part one I had context for a little bit. And then like we had one night where I had a rip in my lenses. And so I couldn't wear for that night was we had the film. So we decide from that point on I would just be wearing my my record eyes. And if I know what the hell, you know, yeah, why you're not paying attention to the right thing. Yeah, exactly. And I kind of just say in my head, like the eye color changed after he got knocked out by the exterminator. So I was like, oh, yeah, the I the context popped out and so now that's why. Yeah, sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, but this one he's you know, he's rebirthed.

1:05:42So now he's he's become more demonic in part three. So he has different eyes going forward. Is this is a question that we were talking about before. Is he a human in the first one? Yes. Okay. And when does he like when does it become supernatural? At the very end of part one where he's brought back from the dead. Yes. And then like so he was just a man. Yes. And so the face underneath the makeup you would assume would have just been like art the clown. So what's art the clown? What was his day like? Yeah, what did he do during the day? What did he what's a job? Did he what was up? Or you can't say yet. Can't say it. Wow. Yes. All right. I'm glad there is an answer. Yes. That's one of those things too. We're God. That'll be great. Everyone will be very excited to see that jump in. Yeah. I will say this that I know for one thing for the his origin. We don't want to make him a sympathetic character. No, we don't want him to have one of those tragic back stories where he was abused and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

1:06:44We basically how I view him in my head is he came out of his mother's womb and strangled her with his own and billical cord. He's just evil incarnate. He is just that's why hell last yonder this guy. He's like, this is our avatar on earth. We love this guy. Yeah. Yeah. We love this guy. Yeah. It's like it's the same variant of the he's from the seed of a thousand maniacs. Yeah. Exactly. He was just born evil. And that's the thing is like I do generally believe there are some people that are that way. They they just came out of the womb and they are just fucked up in the head. I knew a kid like that when growing up where he was this kid that lived across the street from one of my best friends. And I saw him flat out just take glee and killing you know squirrels. Yes. Right. He would like shoot him with his B become Washington bleed out or he would just strangled them himself. And I was like, this kid's just evil. My mom was like, do not play with that kid ever again. He's evil. I'm like, God. So that's how I view art. He was just born that way. He just had that tendency from the very get go where he just love to kill things.

1:07:50It brought him joy. I also find that people that have the happiest existence play unrepentant maniacs really well. And I can tell from the Lego on your behind you that you seem like a very happy go lucky man. That comes from you know, years of struggling. Yeah. I'm happy with. Yeah. That's you know, I was bullied relentlessly growing up. But it's like I always how I escaped all that was finding the things that brought me joy and brought me happiness. And so it's like I am a child of heart in a lot of ways. I guess some people say I, you know, like a, have a what is it? What is it? A recent development. People have said that about me too. And it's like whatever, whatever you idiot, wherever you're fucking butthead, fuck you. Your stupid face. Shut up. Shut up. Oh, I'm like child. Well, you're fucking you got big ass and stupid thing.

1:08:51Thank you. Yeah. So say that in your pocket if you ever need. Oh, you're eternal. I think it's just all that bullying I went through. It's like it's like I think I've been able to channel a lot of that on. On set. I mean, there are even times on set where like, you know, I'm just not fully giving them what they need for a. An attack or something like that. And they'll just go, hey, Dave, just pretend it's this certain person and go. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Oh shit, Dave. Where'd that kind of like repressed rage? I'm not playing. Okay, we interviewed Joe Hill author Joe Hill a few months ago. Yeah. Fantastic man. It went so well. And we never, we didn't really even say anything about us that we said nothing about us that we were so cool during that interview. But it went so well that he came back and he brought his father Stephen King with that. That's right. He was like, I got my dad. You guys are talking about me and I got my dad here now. But then he did a whole thing. You'll see in the interview where he's like, my dad will beat you all up.

1:09:56And Stephen King stood up and he was like, come here. You're a little f words. I have a six time. You'll see. You'll see. It's all there. You know, one thing it speaking of grotesque gifts, you know, disturbing gifts. John Wayne Gacy sent my dad some art. The day from prison. And actually I found that so disturbing. That's in the first paragraph of heart shaped box. Yes. You know, that kind of hung in my mind because the other thing is his Gacy wasn't terrible. I mean, he was obviously terrible. I can't, I can't underline enough how terrible he was. Well, you're the funny guy. You're a funny guy. We've already singled it out. You're screwed. Yeah, that's gotta be the clip to sell this episode. John Wayne Gacy was pretty good. You know, but when he did a real much fun guy. Yeah. You could, he could do a passable, he could do passable like Disney characters and stuff.

1:10:59Well, he used to do paint by numbers. He used to go and get the like, he would have a whole system of other serial colors, including one of the, the guys from the Chicago rippers. And he also had the guy that killed everybody to avoid the earthquake in Southern California. Yeah, the Herbert Mullin Herbert Mullin. He had other serial killers working for him on an assembly line painting these paintings for him. That's not true. Yes, is that true? Yes, because he's, he literally was a job creator. He was a executive manager. He was a project runner. That's what he did. He was a project manager. So they had an art club in prison. It was a kind of like a chain gang. Like literally you need to kind of force them to do stuff. And then they would bring in. There's a whole story about how John Wayne Gacy was sort of game by this young man that called him and pretended to be really into him. And so this young man started arriving to visit with John Wayne Gacy. And then the two of them would talk to the other serial killers like they were his little like crew. Like it was like his little brothers.

1:12:00So don't feel that honored about the art. Is it like that? It was like here come from men, but with art. Yes, yes. Do you find that in speaking of terms of collaboration? Because you guys worked together because of John Wayne Gacy can really run that type of collaboration. I'm sure you guys really, you guys put some really good stuff together. Like because in the tall grass, those are great. Like how do you guys feel like when you're together working? Uh, we've only done it twice. We, we wrote in the tall grass when we wrote throttle and. You know, I mean, I feel like when I, the times I've written with dad, you ever see in like the, the Warner Brothers cartoons? When, while he coyotes climbs on an acme rocket and lights the fuse and then suddenly it takes off under him. Yeah, that's what it's like writing with my dad. I feel like I'm just kind of hanging on for dear life, you know? I, I'd sort of like sweat and pull my hair out over like three pages or something.

1:13:00And then I'd, I'd email it to him and like 45 minutes later, he'd be like, it was great. Here's five more pages. I wrote five. I would keep it up. Well, you know, there was, there was a time when I was chemically assisted by some of those things. And the, the books with Peter Straub in the early days, but those days are behind me now. Yeah. Now it's just what Sialis, a lot of, a lot of snapple. That's what I do. I crush up my Sialis right into the right and down. I just do it. I do it line by line each day just to get me going to do podcast. Yeah. And under the lid of those snapples, they got funny little things. You can just slide right into the book. You know, if you wanted to. You saw, man, if you say so. How do you write books? How, how write books?

1:14:01One of the things that, you know, you talked about characters that died. A little boy died at the end of, of Kujo, you know, in the novel in the, in the movie. He's a spoiler. I mean, Joe, the book is fucking 50 years old almost. Go re Kujo. Anyway, the little boy dies at the end of the book. But in the movie, he lives, but he got nicked by the rabbit dog. So I think he died horribly of rabies after the fade out. But, you know, the thing is, when, when children die or adults die in books, that's one thing. Don't let a dog die. You know, I have heard more about that. I mean, Greg Stilson kicks a dog to death at the beginning of the dead zone. I, I've never heard the end of it.

1:15:03Yeah. That's, that's an automatic one-star off your good re-trading. You killed, I killed a cat in a story called Jack Knife. And I, I have eaten so much shit about it online. You know, my, my mother's dog who I took in, Tutsi, she actually passed away yesterday out of complete, you know, randomness. She was only 19 years old. So, you know, why did she get almost by a beer? Why did they go so young? But, um, so we did a wonderful thing with her. We took her up and we, we put her up, we brought her body up a hill and then, you know, we, we put her in the ground. And there was a beautiful rock structure on the ground. It was like, some kind, it was just gorgeous. And then we, we were putting her in the ground and there was, it was thin soil. It was sour. And, and so I'm hoping when I get home, she'll be there waiting for me. That's cemetery, yes. What? Go down that road.

1:16:06How loud, how? See, I don't think that's better. I'm sorry, was that your jug crandles? Sometimes that's better. Oh, God. I hope that your routine doesn't depend on the quality of your impersonation. Oh, he was putting it. Yeah, he was great. It's great. It's the best. But I have to ask about Pets Cemetery because like you, I am a massive Ramones fan, massive, massive Ramones fan. And the story goes that it's been told that, you know, you invited them over to your house when, you know, before Pets Cemetery was being made. And D.D. Ramone took a copy of Pets Cemetery, disappeared for an hour and came back with the song, fully written. Did that, did it actually happen that way? No. Okay. Great. How did it actually happen? Yeah, I love it. I love getting past images and stories. I said, what would they, would they write? You know, I, my idea was that they would do the soundtrack for Pets Cemetery.

1:17:07And that didn't fly, but they did do that song. I don't want to be buried in a Pets Cemetery. And that was, what, you talk about a great line, buried in a Pets Cemetery. I don't want to live my life again. That's such a sad little, sad little, you know, but every lanky nerd boy knows that feeling. They're all just like, I don't want to go through junior high again. That's what it's about. Yeah, we always get a whole album out of AC DC. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, they did, they did the whole soundtrack to Maxim Overdrive. I just saw that movie to prep for this. Do you remember directing any of that, Mr. King? Yeah, I, I remember too, too much of it. Yeah. But, you know, the thing is, I didn't know, and Dino said, yes, Steven, this is Dino D. Lerenis. Is a, is Steven? Now, I think what we want to do is make a movie. And you're going to direct it. Well, I'd never done anything before.

1:18:08I hadn't been in film school or anything. I learned as I, as I went along. I could actually do a pretty good job the next time. But it was a blast. I have. I also feel a lot of it. You have such a deep understanding of movies because you guys were both big media. You guys watch a lot of movies when you guys are writing novels versus like our screenplays, like easier than a novel or is it like, like, because sometimes you're retrofitting from one of your other previous works. Like, what's the hardest thing that you do? What's the thing besides getting up in the goddamn morning? I mean, going to the dentist, I think. Probably. Yeah. Or we having a proctological exam. But those are, I mean, is it easier to write scripts or books? Which one is? I mean, books. I'd want to write books any day that we go over writing screenplays. But I do write screenplays because that's how I get my health care.

1:19:10So I try to write at least one script every year. You know, but you've had a lot, you've done a lot more in that space. You've written whole TV shows, you know, like not just like the pilot or something, but like every, literally every episode. I think you wrote every episode of golden years. You wrote every episode of leacy story. You wrote every episode of, uh, storm of the century. But does it suck to go from being able to be lured and creator in your own world of writing a novel to like having to go talk to a bunch of suits at a building and try to tell them what your ideas are. Do you just, you just not care? Or they just like, oh, whatever you want, Mr. King. No, I mean, it, it isn't that way. Really, but what I do because I have this wonderful cushion that I don't have to write for the rent every month. And that's a big fucking deal as you guys probably know. The thing is I can write a script on, on spec. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

1:20:11I did a, a series of scripts for a show called Storm of the Century. Yeah. And that's, that's my favorite one. Really, you know, that really turned out well. And because I had a good relationship with director, you know, I'm, I'm, it's also really glad. I'm glad to hear that the only fans is really working out for you guys. And then the guy is really paying the bills. And I just really, I think that that's really great for you guys. It's regular. I've noticed that you have the same director do your stories, you know, like multiple movies. Is there a certain director you think that understands your, your, your stories better than anyone else? Mike Flanagan. Yeah. Life at Chuckle. He's good. He's good, but who's the other guy? I want to say he's got like a name like Jack Holden or something or like maybe he directed the hitter. You're talking about Jack, Jack Bender.

1:21:12Jack Bender was Jack Bender. Thank you. You just saved us. He's great. You know what are yourself bad? Jack Bender is terrific. And he's somebody who can do things that are just wonderful on a low budget and short time. And he's fantastic at both of those things. And it doesn't look phoned in. You know, that's great. Let's see, like speaking of things that you've written for the screen. One of the massive influence on me was the TV miniseries for the stand that you know came back in 1994 like that. It blew my mind when I saw that when I was a kid. But you know, with you know, writing that and also, you know, writing the novel, which is also of course incredible. When COVID came around in 2020, were you surprised by how people acted or were you pretty much like, okay, this is what I expect.

1:22:15This is what I expected to happen when a play gets. Well, one thing that did happen is this is horrible to say, but the book went through the roof again. And we have truly, this is obviously a pillar of the of our world. The ultimate man of nightmares, the star of arguably the peak of his career, Pinocchio Unstrung is Robert England. Thank you so much for joining us today. Do you think that you your persona as like the master of horror also sort of like paints how people react to you? Like do you think that like you you you've disciplined you really disappoint people by not being a child murderer? Here's the thing. I had a fat 10 years in Hollywood before I ever did Freddie. Yeah.

1:23:17And in that 10 years, I did a dozen movies and starred in half of them. You know, again, you know, I starved Jeff ridges and Sally Field and Henry Fonda Jeff ridges. I do want to ask quickly, what was Charles Bronson like? Charles had a guy an assistant who had a little miniature ticker tape with him. And he would be stuck checking his stock market. And he also he also went tear out dialogue. You know, and keep it real simple, of course, and and parse his lines down to smaller, clean lines of dialogue. And also I watched him and he would reach he would practice reaching for a prop. So he didn't have to look at it when he went to get it. And he'd measure it off. And in a way, he moved and rehearsed his physical stuff like a dancer. He wasn't big. He was compact. But he moved beautifully like Lee Marvin moves beautifully or Kevin Bacon moves really well and interesting.

1:24:26They were each old John Wayne had that great strange grace in the way he moved. And and I watched him do that like he would measure his grip from coffee cups so that he could just keep talking to you and reach out a frame and bring that coffee cup in. You know, or some sort of that bottle, you know, and switch hands and you know, he just he was great that way. And he really moved, you see some of his movies, Kato's land and things like that and watch him move. It's just beautiful to watch. We forget, you know, how big Charles Bronson was every culture in the world thought he was one of theirs. Yeah. The Russians thought he was Russians. Polished thought he was Polish. Well, kind of what you know, Chuck us, Levacans thought he was Chuck us, Levacanspan, Spaniards thought he was Spanish. Yeah. Well, he's also he had that idiosyncratic way about him to kind of cut through everything. Like I feel like that's about thing about actors we're missing a little bit now.

1:25:28It's like you anybody can impersonate Charles Bronson. Anybody can impersonate Marlon Brando. You know the voice so indicatively. Well, this is one of the things we've lost. If you think about Jimmy Stewart's hesitant delivery, yeah, or Henry fond is Midwestern accent or Brando or John Wayne. You recognize them when you heard them, let alone when you saw them. It was a signature voice. And I think that that's something that actors have to realize has is part of the component, you know, of an actor. You know, every once in a life either certain actresses that have such beautiful deep husky voices. You just love hearing them speak and it makes them just that much more fascinating or sexy or or you know, you just you like that. Yeah, it's they come with a full toolbox, you know, so to speak. And we've lost that a little bit. You know, you know, and I think that people probably thought they could compensate by going to the gym, you know, or something.

1:26:33But you can as long as you're taking your shirt off. But then you also have to sound right when you speak. Well, that's a no. You so important. It's clearly you and Pinocchio on strong and it was great to hear your curse. I mean, all I tried to do was to avoid the Freddie laugh as much as I could because the Freddie laugh is an old class exercise from from voice class, you know, that I had. And that was my go to thing because it's about the breathing on the diaphragm. Yeah. And so I my muscle memory I fall into the Freddie laugh pretty automatically. Now I have to consciously pitch it higher and breathe less, you know, to, to, you know, get, get, you know, if I wanted, if I'm doing an evil laugh when I'm doing a voice over, you know, for animation or something. Now I consciously have to pitch it high and bite off the air and turn it more into kind of like a demonic giggle or something. So I don't so I don't remind everybody that they're listening to Freddie Krueger.

1:27:34I'm not great. And wasn't that great? That was truly one of the best things I've done. Just be in here. I'm going to the intro. Yeah. Yeah. The intro was actually right on the monitor. That was better. That was great. Well, a lot of the interviews for my perspective. You guys are really good interviews. Oh, thank you. You're better and you think you're fine. You're doing great, buddy. Sometimes I just, I want to meet Stephen King was a Gwendoose guy that worked really hard on that interview. It's funny because I actually cared way less about Stephen King than Robert England. Yes. Robert England's like my fucking childhood hero. Yes. I know it's weird to like for Freddie Krueger to be your childhood hero. It's great. It's actually kind of appropriate, but it is funny how he was so good at not answering the dumb questions. Oh my God. No one has deflected my questions better than Robert France. He's a real pro. He's a real fucking pro. Well, we'll see you all next week. Thanks everybody. Go check out all our socials. Go check out a patreon. Go check us out on Netflix. Have a good night. Have a good time. Have a good week. Have a good life. We'll talk to you soon.

1:28:36Hells it. Hugging. Hell of Robert France. France. France. France. Download the app today and use co-pandora to get $150 instantly in lineups. If you win your first $5 lineup prize picks run your game. Talk about regrets. We all know someone who's been in a car accident and said, I don't need to call a lawyer only to regret it after their pain and damages were worse than expected. When someone hurts you, you deserve to be compensated fairly Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm fighting for the people for over 35 years injured. Visit for the people.com slash podcast. That's for the people.com slash podcast. They're free as free unless they win.