9-22-26

0:00turned with puppets. Come along, with us, cat boy, Stay Daly Waiting Tuesday, September 22 diffic suspiciously begins today and it kind of feels like it 402 degrees here at studio we'll take a trip around the state with a weather forecast in first here's the lineup for this Taiwan on Tuesday, Matthew LaVoy will be first up with a new book. Always excited when we see a new author, debut author, should be pretty cool. It's a thriller. Dennis Sun Cowboy stayed daily columnist and it's what's the beef? Where's the beef? That's what we're going to chat about. Rick Akramin will be here. You know him as big-ack. No stackle for the chargers,

1:01Raiders. He's now living a semi-reclusive life in his newly adopted statewide homing. The only time you'll see him out and about is when he brings this guitar to play a little music. Ask him for poncho and lefty. He knows that one by heart. C.C. Oliver from the Ugly Bug Fly Shop with the Fly Fishing Report. Cowboy Kevin Meyer will be here, Julie Aladdin to discuss all things past sports and how you can get one, renew one and this streamlined process. We can only hope Bill Sniffen slots in on a Tuesday. He can't make it Friday. That's fine. We'll take Bill and he chance we can. And Jake Thomas will be here. Co-founder of Pact Outdoors. He's the one with those wag bags encouraging people to do, do, do in these bags outside. They're like a human bigger sized doggy doobag. Oh man. That's going to be the toughest interview

2:08the morning because this Jake don't poo in no bag. And that Jake is making his co-founder to company that's encouraging people to do that. So these jokes are not going to be on the same page. No, not now, not ever poo in a bag. And hip, I don't want to get off on the topic, but the problem, what's the problem? What's the biggest problem with doggy doobags? Right. You bring your dog on the hike, especially in the back country where there's probably not eyes on you in downtown Manhattan. This doesn't happen because there are too many eyeballs. But in the back country on a trail where nobody's around, your dog does his business and you pick it up in the dog doobag. What do you do next? You're not carrying that thing with you, especially if it's on the way out. If you're going to out and back on the

3:11trail, you're going to set it alongside the trail with a good intention of picking it up on the way back. I don't know what the statistic show, but 97% of us don't pick it up on the way back. And there's sits the doggy doobag forever. Well, a decomposes, but that's the biggest problem with dog do big. So human dog do, are you really going to carry your poop around on the entire camping trip or the hike or whatever it is? No, no. No. Whatever. Cowboy State Daily stories. Yeah, I'm kind of interested in this story about Harriet Hagueman, the her bill to cap conservation easements at 30 years. I think this could potentially

4:12be damaging for the easement people. Large land owners will sometimes generously or selfishly have their reasons to enter into an easement agreement where they can set aside some of their property, some of these boundary acreage and put it in an easement for them. It's piece of mind they'll never have a neighbor moving close. They'll never, you know, they won't have to have more acres to their property to pay taxes on, but they know this land in perpetuity will be just wild, just no one's land. And if you cap that at 30 years now, that kind of ruins the pitch of those trying to get these large landowners to enter into easement

5:13agreements. It sounds great. No one forever for your kids and your kids kids. This land will be never purchased and used and developed. It'll forever be conserved. If there's a 30 year limit on that, yeah, nobody's going to get easements. So that could be an issue. And why? Why the legislation perhaps there's a feeling that that would create just too too many land barons who essentially lock up land. I don't know. You know, follow the money. It's usually money driven. It's money lost. Lamb that can't that lays in an easement that sits in an easement can't be profited from whatever. Casper, another shooting, you know, they've graduated from stabbing each

6:16other. That was so yesterday the stabings. We got guns now. We've come into the 21st century Casper. Now they shoot each other. And now it's it's not gang violence. It's family violence. Brother on brother. Those brothers love each other. A Casper family grates all bull crap. Colby Feedor has a story. Bull I call bull on that quote. Those brothers love each other. That's why one shot the other one dead. Accident argument going too far. Whatever. Brothers who love each other don't shoot at each other. They might stab each other. They don't shoot each other. Bull. They love the you can grieve and I feel bad. But I'm not going to waste a whole lot of symptom. The um brothers who shoot each other and people who take up arms and shoot each other.

7:18That's animals. Sorry. Brotherly love as only Philadelphia can show it. Wyoming electricity. I do want to talk about data. I want to talk about AI. AI is in the news. Oh, you know, every day. But the latest AI stories are so spooky. Why can't we get along in Gernsey? I don't know. Angry town meeting, town council meeting and Gernsey Kate Manos has the story. Every once in a while you go to one of these educate these uh board of education. I mean, what do they call them? Teacher, um, not PTAs. Every once in a while you go to a school board meeting and there's some and it's there's a big

8:22dust up. People are asked to leave. Cops have to drag people out. And every once in a while a sleepy town council meeting suddenly explodes to life. Kate Meadows draws the assignment to go cover Gernsey town council and she's got to be thinking. On the agenda is a on the corner of carns and spruce tree. We're thinking about making that two way stop a four way stop any objections. Public comment. But suddenly a Gernsey the gloves are off. Angry town council meeting spills out into the parking lot. Do tell dish Kate dish. What happened? Was it knives out?

9:26Oh. Gernsey they're probably still back at the knife stage. I don't know. I don't know. I haven't read that far. But I just am excited to see because I used to cover these council meetings in my goodness. 90% of them are a snorfest. Especially since they've gone online. These small town council meetings, you know, council meetings are small town. Do you get like six or eight elected and the mayor and discussing the business for a town that has a population of 821 and these meetings used to be used to slam dunk these things in the 90s and 45 minutes. You met every two weeks. What could possibly be the news in Gernsey? What could possibly be on the agenda that's so pressing in Gernsey? I mean, these were 45 minute meetings because

10:29everybody on the council had a life. And, you know, in some of the good old days, them on the council wanted to go out drinking after. But meet me at the war. Meet me at the bar. Let's go. Let's get done with business, mayor. Move this meeting. Drop that gavel. Let's go call for the vote. Oh no. Now it's online and everybody's got to pull out a TV performance. Here's my Emmy award. When you hear what I think about this topic and on and on, they pontificate. They give a three minute limit to public comments. They should do the same for the council members. Three minutes. Tops is all I want to hear what you think about the four way stop on spruce and main street. Let's move it along. Let's go to the vote. All these meetings for five hours. To talk about nothing. This is why people pop off and say, let's take it out in the parking lot,

11:30Gernsey. You and me, let's go. Finally, something exciting as a reporter sitting in the back of the room trying to keep your eyelids open and suddenly council members like, let's bring it outside. Let's go. I got beer and the cooler. Popcorn time. Yeah, sometimes sheriff. Our favorite sheriff has to have his deputies squat and look for you. Sometimes you come to the sheriff. Latest Laramie County traffic safety enforcement operation truck around and find out. They came. The illegal driver came to them. He was driving the wrong way right in front of the sheriff's office driving the wrong way with like zero paperwork. Not supposed to be in the country. Not supposed to be driving a truck. Everything was expired. No license, no CDL, no

12:33citizen shit, nothing. And then he almost hit a deputy. And he's on the ice watch lifts. This guy is like one inch from getting his butt deported to Guantanamo Bay and he's doing all these things. Just when you thought they caught everybody, there was to catch in the trucking industry doing it wrong. Laramie County Sheriff's Office has one guy driver right up to them and present himself on a bladder. Wow. People. People's is not very smart. Weather forecast. Sonny and cast for 78. Sonny 74's River 10 Evanston Chance of Rain mostly cloudy mid 60s. Green River Chance of Rain about three-ish. Otherwise mostly sunny 72. Bind out slight chance of rain. Partly sunny 63. Could rain at Alpine in the afternoon as well. Highs 68. Do boys.

13:36Chance of Rain. With a high of 63. Jackson. You'll see later afternoon rain with clouds on the increase 67. The high thermopolis 78 and sunny. Cody slight chance of rain around four. If it does show up. 76. The high Buffalo sunny 75. That's a Joe Nichols country song every time I read that forecast. I can't help myself. Foggy in the morning for Sheridan sunny in 79 in the afternoon, Gillette. Generally clearing breezy 73. Newcastle becoming sunny 68. Torrenton sunny 74. Almost a Joe Nichols song. Billy Kerrington song maybe. Mostly sunny 71 in loss. Gradually becoming sunny in Cheyenne highs in the mid 70s. Mostly sunny 73 in Laramie. Sunny 73 in Rollins. That takes you across the state. Let's bug out. Our first guest is a...

14:38Oh, pains me to say it. Boston Red Sox fan. We're going to have a real issue. Looking for a career with purpose and a company that invests in you. Powder River Energy Corporation is a consumer owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team. At Powder River Energy, a good life begins with a good company. Build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan for the future. Visit pre-core.coopp and click join the team today. Powder River Energy Corporation. Powering more than electricity, powering people. This is the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network. Okay, we're back at it. Cowboy State Daily Show. We got an author with us. Matthew Levoit.

15:39Man, is that how you say your last name? Levoit? Perfect. That's perfect. Unless we're at a fancy restaurant, then you can call me Levoit. Levoit. Dude, I got some other things I couldn't call you as a lifelong Yankee fan. I know this is getting off to a rocky start. Matthew Plegetellige is to all Boston sports. Boy. Yes indeed. Well, it's one of those things. It's in the blood. I grew up in Massachusetts and they think of you as a bit of a blood trader if you go anywhere else. I got the flannel on, but it's hiding the tattoos. You can't be blamed. I know it's just your upbringing. In fact, you grew up in Hopkins, Massachusetts. Many people won't recognize or know where that is, but that's where they start the Boston Marathon. That's where the gun goes. They keep that starter's pistols

16:42somewhere in the downtown drugstore. Indeed. It's a beautiful thing. Patriot's day is the the random holiday in Massachusetts. Just as the weather is starting to turn, that everybody gets the day off. You get to go up, you know, schools close. You go to the center of town. You get to, you know, some fried dough. Like candy and apple. You eat wildly unhealthy and watch 10,000 lunatics run away from your town or run away. Yeah. Good riddance. Exactly. I don't know if you can tell by the everything about me, but the running bug didn't catch. No, no running for you. In fact, you were searching for something that was going to inspire you after getting out of college. What the ethical, which is not, that's that's sort in my neck of the woods. I'm from upstate New York, Syracuse, I went in Onionta. Yeah. It's the college. You got out of there with a degree and then you wonder, what am I going to do? Wow. Politics. If you're

17:46undecided, politics, of course. What was that like? Yeah. Well, I mean, the thing is, you know, we started talking about the Red Sox and, you know, I was always competitive and, you know, pro sports was not my future. So I wanted to, you know, a career where I could, you know, compete. And so I started interviewing for sales jobs and my heart just wasn't in that stuff. And, but I'd always loved history and politics was something that just kind of felt like a natural fit. So I ended up running a state senate campaign in Massachusetts and, you know, that confirmed everything for me. I was fortunate to get involved there. I learned a lot from my folks. And as soon as that finished, you know, I was waiting tables and saving money, scraping to move to DC, where I knew absolutely no one. And DC is the land of connections. So, you know, it was, wasn't easy, but I came down, kept the waiting tables to be able to live inside. Very important. Somebody told me once you can't say

18:50of the world if you can't pay the rent. You're not saving the world from a tent. Is something like that? No, no, no, people tend to tend not to listen to the guy out there with the sign. But, you know, that's, I just absolutely loved that. And, you know, I wanted to be part of history as it was happening. And that was, that was what sealed the deal for me. So I moved down here to work on Capitol Hill. And, you know, the rest of they say is history. And that was, that was 20 years ago. Well, a book has come out of his experience. We're going to talk about that. I'm, I'm super excited. You talk about a start to a book. Oh my goodness. I read like the first chapter and a half. And right away, we got a senator in his throne and into a broil. Oh, it's, it's gripping me right off the bat. But first, some of the things you learned now, it sounds like you wanted a career that hadn't like measurable. You said competitive, but you wanted to see results

19:52from whatever you do, whether it's your at, you know, batting average, your RBI's or in politics, it was measurable results. You could work a campaign or whatever. And I mean, sight on scene going to into the machine, the beltway. I mean, without any contacts without an end, that's pretty cool. You, you said, you have said that you, you worked with some influential power brokers. You had a front seat to seismic shifts in geopolitical history. What are some of the example? I mean, can you dish a little? Yeah, of course. You know, I mean, obviously, names change to protect the innocent. There's still clichet goes. But yeah, I mean, so I've worked for, you know, people who became Speaker of the House, people who became Vice President and people who were, you know, at the forefront of the biggest policy debates that we've had. And, you know, I mean,

20:53Obamacare for one of them, that was absolutely bananas, you know, walking out, just seeing the people on both sides protesting. And that was, I mean, that was, I'd never seen anything like that. Like I said, I wanted to play sports, but walking on with the crowd was like, oh, okay, this is real. So, I mean, like, but, you know, the, a lot of people's look at DC is either a House of Cards or a Veepe situation, you know, if you're talking different, different TV shows that represent it. And I mean, really, it's somewhere between, but Leansmore towards Vee, my first boss, he was, he was fantastic in so many ways, but he also, you know, he had, he had my kind of ambition to be out there and helping people, but also he had my fashion sense. And we had the different people in the office being like, you've got to drop the short sleeve white dress shirt. Please,

21:54yeah, take it off. You look like you're about to sell me a tractor and not talk about foreign policy. Still, it's like those kinds of things were great. And it was being able to, you know, to be at the White House and the first time get almost tackled by Secret Service because Vice President Chani walked by and I was like, I just thought, oh, it's time to shake his hand. Oh, you can't just approach people like that. I mean, things like that were great, but like I said, I got here with the idea of like, oh, I want to compete. I want to, you know, I want to play on my side and win. It didn't take long before it like partisan aspects started to fade for me. And it was like, okay, how can we help the people that are calling the office? Getting to know and hear their real problems was like, okay, winning means policy wins that'll benefit, you know, that not leaving the Farm Bill hanging out there all year, which is, you know, it was a problem 20 years ago. It's a problem this year, right? And those those kind of things really started to stick with me. It was

22:58like, okay, what's what's the avenue you want to take to to affect that kind of change? And it allowed me, my career has allowed me to travel the country, talk to everyday people everywhere. I mean, I'm nothing special in most regards. So like, I identified and was able to just kind of connect and take their stories back to make a difference in in DC. But at the same time, and I didn't know with them, I was collecting stories and I was building a narrative of this, you know, the everyday fears of what it takes to either make payroll as a business owner, put food on your table to put your kids through college to pay for insurance. Oh, all those different things factor in where we are today. And I'm incredibly grateful for my opportunities here and the opportunity to make a difference. Well, Matthew, obviously you weren't set out for a career in politics, even though you went in to play it as a game. And that's how I think so many elected still do.

24:02Like that you got caught up in what it's supposed to do. Like here's we're supposed to be doing the work of the people, here's what the people here are their wants and needs and fears like, wow, no, that's too real to be. And one thing just that's important is it's not just politics, that attitude unfortunately can sometimes not sometimes often exist out in the real world in the business world. I worked for a Fortune 50 company that everybody would know their name. And they were going through a tough time. They had to unfortunately shut down some plants and you know, those decisions do have to be made. But I went down to close one plant and I was sent down to Jacksonville and I was sitting there and I had to evaluate the way that the manager was going to break the news like the day before. And I was there with HR and a couple other executives. And then everybody broke for coffee or whatever. And I just said to him, I was like, man, I'm

25:03I'm just so sorry this is happening to you. And he said, you know what, you're the first one who said that. And this had been going on for three weeks. So that lack of empathy, you know, coming out at DC does spark a lot of those very well-founded fears. You were through all this, you're putting away these little tidbits, these little stories. I don't know if you ever thought you would write them down. Or if you ever thought you would be an author, I don't know if you ever thought main street fringe was right there in the future. Although you are an avid reader, thanks to mom, Beth, you read, read, read. In fact, you had there were a reading contest and you just like you want them all. They had the change of rules. They're like, ah, it's Matthew one again. Yeah, yeah. As you can probably guess, I had, you know, hundreds of girlfriends. And it was, but yeah, that absolutely, that was, that is the foundation. And I didn't really necessarily have the idea that I was going to be an

26:03author. I was, you know, back in my head, if you know, I was sitting out having a cocktail, kind of like ruminating, be like, oh, that'd be great. But you know, it was always like, oh, I don't have the time or that's not for me. I'm, I'm in politics. I'm in policy. That's, you know, that's a separate lane. But then when, when we hit around COVID, I no longer had an excuse on the time thing. And I had an idea and it was just kind of like, let's see how this goes. And it was, you know, I found that I got as much joy from sitting down and crafting a story coming up with a line that I loved that I did reading my favorite books. And I was like, oh, oh, well, you know, almost disappointed that I hadn't found this 20 years ago. But I don't know if I would have been ready for it 20 years ago. And I think that my debut novel means three fringe speaks to it came at the right time. And I'm incredibly

27:07excited about about the book and how my life and my interaction with thousands of people around the country have informed this. Growing up reading, I think, built a nice base for you. You, you watched all you read authors do it. So you were, you probably didn't know it. You were packing away some techniques, some tips. And then you go live life for 20 years in that world, that environment, that DC, that, you know, fast-paced world. And then, you know, the one good thing to come out of COVID, you had a little downtime to set stuff to paper, mainstream fringe, the new political thriller from this guy, first time author. So I don't want to give away too much. I want to make people read it. But man, this thing starts out with, you know, there's this genre, I think, is booming. You, you find a lot of books in this genre, this political thriller kind of thing.

28:08Clancy does a lot of people do it. You got a senator looking for a meetup with someone who's a minor. And man, he gets in trouble right off the bat. The minor is not a minor. She's 35, but she can pull off 17. And Theo Barnes is the Virginia state police detective. That's how it all gets started. But that's just the beginning. You, this thing will take twists. And it's so cool. How, so how did you do it? Matthew, every time I'm, I'm, talk to authors, I want to know how you plotted beginning to end because there can't just be the one plot. There's got to be subplotters, got to be twists and turns. Do you storyboard it? Did you know the end before the end? How did you do it? How did you develop the characters? Well, I, it's kind of like a, for everybody's got different process. But for me, it starts with like, you know, the initial idea, like the kernel,

29:10like you're talking about how to get out of the gate fast, you know, something that's going to just grab the reader, but also for me, sets up thematically what I'm going to be writing, you know, like this is, this is a story, you know, as you described, you know, a senator who's out there, and he's, he's caught up in a, in, you know, an internet sexting with the Virginia State police. But it really is like about, okay, they got him. This knocks our hero down because it's, you know, it's power against power. And we're, that's where we're starting. But thinking about the end, and certainly I'm not going to talk anything in detail there, but like, I have that idea too, because it's, that has to tie the thing together at the end. And then I can start pushing it together and thinking about, okay, the characters along the way. And fundamentally, what I do, I try to do three chapters at a time, you know, I, I will outline, you know, a page or two, three chapter, what has to happen, what would be good to happen. And then I write it,

30:14and then I edit it. And then I kind of like move on. So that way, as I'm getting towards the end, I'm closer to a finished product than just writing like one ream of paper, like Jack Kerawak, you know, full of heroin, where you can see any go, oh, I get it on spool all of this. So it's a little tighter for me when it comes to that. Characters, character development, that's always a big thing. A lot of readers may not even notice how that goes on, but they notice when a character isn't properly developed or when a character does something that's out of character. How do you get into the minds of your characters, make them like believable, make them likeable or not likeable, if that's the point. And how do you make them act like, oh, yeah, Theal Barnes would have done that. That's him. Yeah, that's a hard part for authors. I don't know how anybody does that. And it is hard. And when it's when it's done well, it's almost seamless.

31:16When it doesn't go well, it stands out kind of like, you know, like a missing button on a shirt or something like that, where it's like, oh, hey, that's something's not quite right. It's cock-eyed. And the way I go about it is, if in character is everything, it's, you know, their motivations have to make sense. And if I know the character, if I, and for these guys, again, I did a little outline for most of the major characters, just two pages, tops, but understanding, you know, okay, what do they find funny? Would they be funny in these situations? Are they fearless? Are they fearless in the face of somebody who's stronger than them? Or those kind of things? And it fits well. But the other thing, and I don't know, I don't hear enough authors talk about this. I mean, they always talk about, show, don't tell. You know, don't be like, he was scared. Have them, you know, fidgeting with their ear or things like that. But I think one of the best lessons in

32:18characterization is, again, to watch a lot of movies, you know, like is to see an actor, these master craftsmen pulling off how they feel, you know, I mean, and it can be something is, is, is very small, but one of the most famous things is De Niro and Pacino at that diner-y heat. And they're sitting opposite each other and it's like, what if I have to take you down? What if I have to take you down? I mean, the dialogue matters greatly, but it's right at the very end. You can tell which one is more serious, is that it's De Niro because the very end, Chino just kind of glances slightly away and smirks. It's hard to tell, but if you portray that little moment, that break, that again, that's the seamless thing that I'm going for. But also, these people have to be grounded. I mean, a lot of people have asked me about the conspiracy to ball characters that exist throughout the book and it's like, how do you make them real and not a character? It's because their stuff, their, their conspiracies, their, the rabbit hole they've

33:24gone down, it's for where it came from. It's their fears. It's the things, somebody who's claiming the UN is going to come in and take land, is generally afraid of losing their farm for a variety of reasons. And it's not, you know, if you get that baseline, the rest of it can flow and you can understand them and therefore build them out, I think, in a proper fashion. That, that's one more thing I wanted to ask Matthew before we got to move on, that, that cabal of conspiracy theorists, fanatics that are dangerous to show up on this book, is that based on anything you got a whiff of during your 20 years in DC? It is. I mean, again, I, it's a, there's some in DC, but a lot of it comes from traveling the country and hearing people's and this phrase that I kind of said accidentally the other day, but I began, you know, noticing this creeping outrage and for a lot of good reasons, you know,

34:28I mean, right now we've got all the problems, you know, I mean, try to buy a gallon of diesel, try to buy, you know, go to the grocery store, all these different things, but 15, 20 years ago, there were similar, similar problems as well. And I'd be talking with them, and, you know, I'd be hearing about their fear, I'd be hearing about their concerns. And I was that meetings of different political organizations that started out with a, a real understandable outrage and a collection of people like, we got it, we got to do something, we got to make some change here. And then not long after that starts, income the grifters, income the people that are looking to manipulate that fear and steer it for their own direction. So not that these people couldn't be dangerous on their own, but when you've got somebody who's got a plan and a self-interest and who's driving this desperation, that's really something that I started seeing. And some of the events that we've seen over the last 15, 20 years, where either somebody acts independently or

35:31that's been a group of people, it's, it is built largely on, on that creeping outrage. And eventually, it does, it does just boil over if I can mix a metaphor. Hi, I'm a professional writer. Oh yeah. Well, some of the things we've seen over the last 15, 20 days, or weeks, interesting. You got to get this book, man, it's doing, you know, star reviews on Amazon, on all the places you find your book, debut, author, mainstream, French, and Matthew is not done yet. He's got more books in store, more books in his brain, he's got to get out. Dude, thank you so much. I really appreciate having me on. Thanks a lot, Jake. Absolutely. Good luck with the book and I expect more out of you. Matthew, love, boy or love, wife, you're having dinner with him in a five star restaurant. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. Cowboy, you stayed daily. Should we got to get a break? We're going to talk cattle, beef

36:34prices and all things. True Wyoming. Are you ready to put your skills to work? Wyoming Sugar Company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers, lab crew, and more. There's a place for you on the Wyoming Sugar team. Competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers. Be part of a great team, a great facility, and a season of opportunity. Apply today at WyomingSugar.com slash careers. That's WyomingSugar.com slash careers. Wyoming Sugar Company, put your skills to work. Ready? Set. Make a difference. Seroptimus of Cody invites you to their 18-dannual 5K 10K chip-time walk run Saturday, October 3rd at the Cody Recreation Center. Run or walk to support the Laney Cole Memorial Women's Cancer Fund, providing vital assistance to park County Women battling cancer. Registration starts at 8.30 a.m. with the kids race at 9. and the 5.10K at 9.30. Register at runsignup.com or sunlight sports in downtown Cody. Seroptimus of Cody,

37:35making a difference once step at a time. You're listening to the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network. Hey, look who's here. It's Dennis Son, Cowboy State Daily Columnus. We're going to talk all things beef, of course, because they say no chicken show. Although people are like getting other kinds of protein shame on you. Dennis, great column. Always, always important for Wyoming. Protein is driving the beef industry. This need for protein. I never really thought about it. I don't know how much of it is. The ozemic GLP ones or whatever, the dieting. But I know like dietitians suddenly their protein beef is back. You know, beef is suddenly protein,

38:36four word diets are popular, cut the carbs and all the other great get protein into your butt. That's a good message right now for anybody in the cattle business. It is. And stuff. Thanks for having me on, Jake. Appreciate it. Great, great column. So here we do want to talk about the upstounds, the positives and negatives of being in the beef industry right now, being a beef producer. I love the way you started this column. Just pointing out how the similarities, the commonalities between both beef producers and beef consumers. Number one, we both eat steak and hamburgers. You know whether you're making beef or eating beef. We have a lot in common also rising costs for everything. Consumers are having to make choices at the grocery store. What do you know, do I buy

39:39that steak, do I buy the hamburger or do I make an alternative choice in the same with beef producers? Costs of everything they put into that cow is going up and up and up. So we have that in common. Yes, you know, I think, you know, we're talking about protein and beef, but all meats have protein is just that the consumers have picked beef as their favorite because of the taste. Studies have shown that they like the taste better than the course chicken or, you know, and pork is kind of holding it on, but it's not a real big one. Lamb is good, but there's not enough lamb in the system to supply all the consumers of want lamb. And so that's an issue there. And most of the lamb that

40:42coming in from New Zealand, Australia and around, you know, so beef is the choice and the studies have shown its taste that's making them selected and pay the prices. Dennis has done the research for us in the column. He's been hanging around the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That must have been my numbing, Dennis. Did your eyes glaze over? But some interesting stats that might be surprising. We have, you know, as far as our consumers curtailing their ground beef purchases, how much prices have actually increased over last year and maybe last month? Like what is the current trend? It's interesting. Beef remains 5.9% more expensive over the year. Ground beef accounts for 52% of all beef products. That was unchanged last month,

41:42but still over 7% higher than it was last year. But we're so maybe flattening at least from August to now or the latest data. Maybe we're seeing prices kind of level out. But I don't know if we can attribute that to, you know, anything that DC is doing. President Trump is doing. There are the feds are doing with, you know, they're supposed quick fixes. Dennis, I think we've talked about this before, but the quick fix, terra, uh, terra free imports, a lot of that is meant to look good for the midterm elections. But in the long run, that does not help Wyoming producers might even be worse. Well, the amount of beef that they want, the trimmings that they want to bring in and stuff is not going to make much of a difference, you know, and they're right now they've opened another

42:46entryway into United States from Mexico. So there's quite a few cattle going to be coming in on that. Like when you look at the big picture is that, uh, you know, Tyson, they closed down one pack and house and then they just had one one shift running in another and in Texas. And the Mexican cattle will be coming in from that one port will be about one, will take over another shift on that Tyson beat plant. So, you know, it's not making a whole lot of difference. There, the problem they're having there is most of the cattle that's coming in on from the, from the New Mexico deal, uh, they're used to 300 pound calves coming in. And Mexico now is keeping their cattle till they're around 500 to 700 pounds.

43:47And these 700 pound cattle come through their facilities and kind of crashed everything. But they got that put back together. And now the one of the issues there is, uh, the ranchers and farmers and can, you know, Oklahoma and Texas and around that race, that raised wheat. They like to put those cattle on that wheat in the winter or the fall. It's a cheap gain. But because of, uh, other wheat's done so good here lately, they're going to keep it and harvest it early summer. So that kind of cuts out the cheap gain on it. I mean, there's, there's so much going on dynamics of it that it over, it just comes full circle and it kind of just comes back to demand and, and the number of cattle that's out there, the packers are still over capacity, you know, and so they're going to make all the money they can.

44:54And the bad thing is, is anything that kind of causes uncertainty like trumps and now announcements and stuff, it lowers the people, the people with the paper money in Chicago and around with the futures. Yeah. They dropped. And so people are getting the prices now for their cattle that they were three weeks ago. Yeah. It's kind of a bad deal there. And, and that's the timing aspect. The rancher, you know, the cattlemen, the beef producer, they work in, in like years, it takes, you know, two, three years, uh, for, for, uh, when, when a calf hits the ground, so you operate in years, meanwhile, the, the market operates in minutes. Uh, you make an announcement like this right at a time when here in Wyoming, we're, we're, we're gathering and we're shipping cattle and selling, um, boy, that the timing of this, uh, is not,

45:56not great. I think this is a second year in a row that's happened during this time. Really? So, uh, you know, everybody's getting a little hedge out here and, uh, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of bad anytime government gets in your business, especially a commodity, uh, year in trouble. Yeah. Uh, Dennis, son, read the latest column. Very interesting. Uh, my, it's, it's beef. It's high protein diet. The consumers are looking for. That's the good news. The bad news is there's been some meddling in the market by the government and it's created uncertainty. Anytime you have uncertainty, uh, prices, you know, yo, yo, all over the place. You had one other interesting piece in here in the column that I thought was cool, uh, to know, for the anti grazing lease groups, whoever they are, the ones who say, uh, these cows, great, you know, these, they're out, they're out on the public land. Sheep is can be these ranchers.

47:01It's almost free grazing for them and they graze inefficiently and they ruin the habitat for deer and elk, et cetera. Um, you said with proper grazing, cattle and sheep can not only, you know, not graze inefficiently, uh, they improve the range they graze. Cattleman will tell you that because, you know, on their own land, if, if they don't, if they're not stording that land and caring for, uh, and, and, and may, and watching the grazing, um, they'll wreck their own bottom line. They'll wreck their own selves. So, uh, if done right, cattle can graze land in an efficient manner and make it better than it was. Well, Cattleman, just like every other animal that's out there on the range, you have to manage it. Yeah. You know, no matter if it's a wildlife or a sage-grouse or whatever is out there, it has to be managed. And so people now are realizing ranchers and farmers are telling their story

48:05and, and they're showing the proof that, uh, I know I've done it on our past ranch, uh, in seven years, we brought a creek back from being totally overgrazed to house of functioning stream. Yeah. And, and cattle were the tool. So people are realizing that, and, uh, they're, uh, they're not paying attention to the, the people that want ranchers and farmers off the land and the vegans and so forth. Well, if Washington, D.C. truly cared about understanding the beef industry, they would read Dennis's sons, Callum. That's all it'll take. And they'd be making smarter decisions, I think. Thank you, Dennis. Thank you. Have a great day. You too. Cowboys stay daily show here on a Tuesday, rowing along. Here's what we got coming up next. Our, uh, more guests, Rick Akerman. Big act is going to be with us. You may remember him as a

49:14defensive lineman, no stackle for the chargers and raiders. You won't believe what he's doing now, unless you read the article in the Cowboys stay daily and you had a, you might have had a sneak preview. Rick's going to join us. We'll talk about the old days in the NFL and how today you can't touch a quarterback. CC Oliver with a fly fish and reporting Jackie Dorothea. Be honest. Well, that's all coming up next hour. You don't want to miss a minute of this. Stick around. Cowboys stay daily show with Jake. We got a pause for the cause. Top of the hour news for our radio affiliates. And we'll catch you on the other side. All right. We're back at it. And big act is with us. Look out. We'll tell you the, I'm doing good, man. What, um, Rick Akerman joins us. You may remember him from

50:15his NFL career where most of what he did as a defensive lineman, no stackle, if he was playing today, I mean, he would be flagged on every play. He'd probably be arrested for this stuff. You did. I mean, Rick, can you even watch football today with the, with the way they baby, these quarterbacks, man, all. It's terrible, man. You can't even like, you breathe on him and they throw the flag and it's crazy. It's just not right. Um, for quarterback, eaten defensive linemen, like big act. It's, you couldn't play today's world. It's crazy. Akerman joins us from a site that we will not disclose. That's part of the part of why he loves Wyoming, man. He ain't gonna zoom. He's not, he's off the grid. Um, way off. And I love it. Right, man. Dude, I love it. That, that, that, I mean, that's so Wyoming. You are a new adopted

51:17son. We're glad to have you, you are one of us. You're made of the right stuff. Uh, big act graduated from Glen Bard North High School, Goal Panthers. Uh, that high school turned out a few football players and Billy Corgan from this mashing pumpkins, which is interesting because you're now a musician as well. So, uh, so weird. I know. It's crazy. I know, man. All right. So how come your poncho in Louis lefty? Um, actually, actually, Leo got that wrong in that article. Here we got it back. I was lefty because, you know, Louis was the leader. He was, he was the leader of the gang. Uh, and so, uh, yeah, he was poncho and I was lefty and he was one heck of a guy, man. Louis, Louis was, my, at least six six, two three hundred and twenty pounds, worse. I had a side 16 shoe. Oh, I mean, I have big hands and his, his fingers are probably a good inch longer

52:17than mine. And he was like a big old bear paws, swatting, swatting off, my offensive lineman and getting to the quarterback. Is this the greatest guy ever, man? I mean, I, I remember that air. I remember that time in the NFL, but of course, all, all I remember is Eric Coriel, Dan Foults, that charges throw on the ball. I wouldn't even have thought of the defense. Sorry, big egg, but I'll bet nobody ran the ball up the middle on you. No way. Well, you know, the thing about it was is that when I got there as a rookie, you know, I think I mentioned the article that I got there on a Saturday, yeah, little hair, California. I'd never been wed to the Mississippi. So, you know, this was like really a new experience for me. And I was, I was just not, not ready for all that. But anyway, I get there and, and that next morning, Sunday morning, I'm sitting there at the chow hall having my breathest and there's a bunch of guys and stuff. And I just happened to look

53:17up a newspaper laying there and it's the sports page and they're like, this Rick Akerman guy. Or just like a week ago, you know, I didn't even go to mini camp or nothing. And this guy's going to be the first guy to get cut. And I'll, and that just set my tone for the whole camp. Man, I was, so I was, I was furious, man, when I run, I run that because I was like, man, I can be say that about me and I, they don't know me, you know, and, and I was coming there, you know, to make the team, you know, I was, I was one of the strongest guys. And I was benching 450 pounds. I've been training all summer out, you know, because my agent told me I was going to get a shot. He said he didn't know where it was going to be, but he said, just be ready. So I was, I was ready. And then, you know, they had the best defensive line at that time in the NFL. The year before, they got, they had 60 sacks. So they had bread, Dean, Gary Big Hands Johnson, Louis culture, all three all pros. And then on the left end with Leroy Jones, who was 6, 8,

54:20and I'm think, I'm, I get out there, you know, well, of course, Ricky camp, we're just Ricky's the first week, but then when the veterans actually show up, I'm like, damn, man, I'm going to make this team, you know, because look at these guys and other, they're the best, you know. And it turned out, you know, the, and I worked my ass off and, and, and proved myself to, and ended up being the last guy that Eric, down, down, Coriol called into his office. And, and I thought I was getting cut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bring your playbook, you know, and, and so I'm getting my playbook in there. And, and Don Coriol, who's just this awesome coach, he looks at me and he goes, he's like, back, and he's like, we saw a lot of great things in you and camping stuff and he goes, we decided we're keeping you. Really? And I was like, I was just, you know, I couldn't even talk hardly, you know, no, I left there and called everybody I knew, you know, my dad, everybody, and I told my mate it, and I was

55:22so excited. So it was, it was really a big moment for me. Well, maybe the happiest guy was Louis, he had somebody to go drinking with. He's glad. Well, I know. And there was that. You know, how can a guy 65 to 60 be one of the smaller dudes on the defensive line? I mean, Louis pushing 300, everybody's trying, organic on that defensive line. Wow. So, yeah, that had to be, well, fun times, a different kind of NFL, the guy we're talking to, big act came in just as a undrafted and motivated by the fact that sports writers said, who's this guy? We're not going to have to learn him very long, but he picked up a little bit of, he turned that strength, his mountain man strength into a little bit of technique and look out, he started putting up numbers, hung around the NFL. It's talk about your transition to the Raiders. Al Davis saw something in you and he had a second career there.

56:26Well, yeah, you know, it was the, it was actually the middle 84 and for some reason, the chargers, they waved me for a game. It was against the Indianapolis Colts. And they were, they said, oh, we're going to bring you back on Monday, but we got to make room for this guy, you know, but I was in the Midwest. I had a bunch of family and stuff going to the game, you know, and I'd call my mom and say, I was going to have to be there, you know. So that was a little rough, you know, dad's like, what? So anyway, so I didn't go to the game and Monday morning, I'm at home, you know, and all of a sudden I get this call like at 7 a.m. and I think it was Al Locustel called me at that time and he goes, hey, man, we want to bring you up here for a try out. Can you get up here tomorrow? And I'm like, yeah, I can get up there, drive up there, you know, so I drive up there and

57:29I walk in there, of course, meet Al and everybody and Earl Leggett was their defensive line coach, right? And Earl Leggett was an ex-bearer, Chicago bearer back in the, you know, the thick butt kiss stays, played 11 years for the bears and he played at LSU and he's this big hulk of a dude, you know, and he took me out down on the field and they worked, he worked me out and put me through all kinds of drills and, and then, you know, they all went and huddled up it in the office and they brought me in and they said, hey, we want to sign you and they and Al gave me a really good deal, you know, and so I took it, you know, because I was like, man, I'm going to come to the raiders, you know, because they just won the Super Bowl in 84, you know, that it was actually the 83 season, but you know, the 84, you know, Super Bowl because you're playing January. But anyway, so now I get here and I've been planning against these guys. In fact, I just played against

58:32them twice because we played two games, one game, you know, they're stating one game in San Diego, that year. And so I just got through playing them, you know, so me and Dave W is their starting center, you know, for 15 years him and Jim Otto were the only two centers to play for the raiders for 30 years. We had some hellish battles, you know, and Kurt Mars and Mickey Marvin and of course Henry Lawrence and, you know, they had one hell of a line, you know, and Super Bowl champ. So, so, anyway, so I walked on Wednesday, you know, and I'm sitting there and me and Dave Dolby are like kind of growling at each other because we did not get along, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, I'm thinking, man, am I just going to have to fight my way out of here or what? And I just didn't even know what the hell to think. So get through a couple practices. Well, now they're D-line, okay, this D-line, you know, I don't know how I was lucky enough or blessed or whatever that

59:33I played for the charges with the, you know, the players they had in the defensive line, but now we're looking at Lyle L'Oveito, how are you long? Reggie Kinlaw, Phil Pical, Sean Jones, just unbelievable defensive line, you know, and so, you know, look guys took me in right away, the D-line, you know, the defensive defense, you know, but so after a couple days of practice, all of a sudden Thursday rolls around and Dave walks over to me and he goes, hey, he's like, tonight's come rather a night, we all go out together and, you know, he goes, we started this place called Ponchos, it's kind of a Mexican restaurant bar, two picture, beer pictured, you know, limit there and then we're going to go to this other place down the road for two margaritas and then we end up at this place called Overeal Woolberg, you know, for the rest of the night. And so, I mean, shit, have to team, that's how I'm like, that was our general Thursday night outing,

1:00:40you know, the entire time I was there, they called it camaraderie, and we all rolled in Friday, and that'll, you know, kind of easy practice and then walked around Saturday and we're ready to play on Sunday, so it was just a great experience, Earl was like the best, and that's where I learned to really learn the best past rush maneuver that I've ever seen, which is the rip in the hump, and that's what how he became so proficient at, and all those guys, Greg Townsend too, he was the right defense man, they're all time sack leader, just all these, I mean, Earl was a technician about teaching, and basically what the rip was is that you got into the guy and you went, and you like, you go to the left of the right, but you go to the left and you rip your friggin, like a, your arm up under his armpit and lift them off the ground as you're trying to get by him, so the so the offensive tack left two, two options here, he can either try to cut you off that way, or, you know, he kind of hangs in there, but he's going to try to cut you off, and when he goes

1:01:43to cut you off, if he overextends too much, then you pull that out and you throw it under his other armpit, and that's where the hump comes in, he just lift them off the ground, and dump them as you're headed towards the quarterback, and you know, that was, that was something you could, if you watch any, any tape I how he's long, or while all day though, or any of those guys that are around the line, you know, how he used to just annihilate people with that thing, and just mess quarterbacks up. You use the offensive lineman's momentum against them, leverage, like a hopper man, it's like, you got this, you know, you got this two-punch thing, you know, and you know, either way the guy screwed, because if he doesn't get out there far enough, then you go around these outside, and he can't stop you, and your end of his, you know, arm pit and ripping it, you know. Yeah, we're talking to Rick Akramon, career at the Chargers, then-raders, then, well, you know, I think what Al Davis saw, and he got tired of you, Jason Stableur, Kenny Stableur around, whatever you see a guy you played against, you're like, either we got to,

1:02:46you know, we got to beat him or hire him, you know, with love of this guy. Well, it was actually Jim Punkett in those days, that was Jim Punkett. Yeah, and like, and, and, you know, I have to say, man, I was on Jim Punkett a lot, and one thing I noticed about that guy, first of all, he was, he was pretty stout to bring down, and he was tough to, he was tough to bring down, but he annoyed the hell out of me because, you know, I had some great hits on him and was bringing him to the ground, and as he was going down, he was completing passes, you know, and I was, like, this guy's really starting to get out of my nerves. I don't know that I, I maybe got one sack on him, maybe, I don't know, you know, man. Yeah, he was just a great person. He was not the most mobile of quarterbacks, but yeah, he could hang in there and finish the pass. Yeah, absolutely. We just move a little bit this way, a little bit this way, but he was always, that's why I loved him about the guy actually is that he was always looking to throw the ball, you know, I mean, like, complete the pass, you know, I mean, he gave himself up to complete the pass.

1:03:48And most all the times he did. You got to respect that. Take the hit to make the pass. That's tough, that's tough as nails. So, Ak, you got to Wyoming. So cool. You know, with today's NIL nonsense, when you moved to Laramie in 1989 and went to UW, you probably could have played for the folks. The way they did and get more money playing for the folks than you ever got with the Raiders. It's so crazy. I know what is this? And I think that I should be getting a check from somebody in Memphis, you know, because, because I mean, what the heck, we got screwed, you know, we didn't get any money at all. And I think we got a $25 per key in when we got on the plane to go, go play somebody. Oh, man, it's not fair. I mean, we've used your name, image and likeness to for this show. He said, hey, big ax is going to be on you. Don't want to miss this show. All right. Well, that's all good. I don't mind that. The thing about this is just a different area,

1:04:48you know, I mean, even back then, you know, I mean, if you look at the money the players are making now and what we made back in those days, and it's sick, you know, I mean, you know, and so it's just bad timing, I guess. But you know, I, I mean, it felt career and I thought I really cared about I'd played for free back in those days, you know. Yeah. Well, you're playing probably for drinks right now out of, we can see you out and about playing songs. I mean, you just picked up the guitar, you learn guitar, like you, you didn't really have a music background. You taught yourself, this is by the way, if you don't know Rick Akerman, this is his MO when he goes in, he goes all in and he decided he was going to live in Wyoming off the grid and then play music and holy cow, man, you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I had a really good friend by the name of Christans back in those days when I was going to school because I realized that when I got here, you know, I got out of the NFL,

1:05:48I didn't have any skills like, you know, there was finding a job was tough, you know, and I'd get interviews, big companies that call me in for interviews and stuff, but I spent all the time talking them about football, you know, and then they said, okay, well, nice talking to you. And then I'd leave, you know, and then I seem realized that they were kind of bringing me in just because they wanted to talk football, you know, so yeah, but then I decided when I decided, I already knew I was coming to Wyoming and my dad, who was like my best friend, he, he was all mad because I wasn't coming home, he wanted to come home after all the years, you know, and so I decided that I was going to go back to school because I never finished my degree at Memphis and so then he was all happy about that. He was like, okay, that's a good idea. He signed off on it and when I came here, I just, you know, I'd already knew I was, I loved Wyoming. I mean, I, in the off seasons, I used to go into Y'all's Storm Park and I lived up there for like a month at a time out of the back of my truck, I built

1:06:48this kind of frame for a mattress above the wheel, it was head on my camp and gear under there and then she'll honest, I was hanging out there and a lot of times I'd go again on my way, like I went down to training camp, I took my brother and we spent a couple weeks up there before we went to training camp. So I already knew I wanted to be here, I just was trying to figure out how to do it, and then like I said, Chris, she came out and where I was living, then she was a heck of a guitar player, a fiddle player and she was playing the shit out of the guitar and saw on that fiddle and I was like, man, I always wanted to learn to play the guitar. Could you show me how? She started showing me some stuff and good buddy, mine up in from Du Bois, Lynn Stewart, he's a taxidermist up there and he lent me one of his guitars and I just went to play it on the guitar and all that new rule, I don't do anything at night but play guitar. So first two years I played like five hours a day every night. Wow. And I was like, damn man, I can do this, you know, so I tell it all started. Well, if you get an opportunity to see Big Act on stage, take it. Yeah. Well now it's

1:07:56big act and it's son Haas, my son Haas is big thing. Yeah. And he is killing it, man, he's a heck of a guitar player and a singer and we do a deal show together and it's really fun and never really really good time. Dude, come out of the woods every once in a while. Don't be a stranger, come see us again. We're big fans. Okay, man, thank you so much. Appreciate your time. You know it, thank you. Okay. We'll be right back. Ready, set, make a difference. Seroptimus of Cody invites you to their 18th annual 5K 10K chip time walk run Saturday, October 3rd at the Cody Recreation Center. Run or walk to support the Laney Cole Memorial Women's Cancer Fund providing vital assistance to park County Women battling cancer. Registration starts at 8.30 a.m. with the kids race at 9. And the 5 and 10K at 9.30. Register at run signup.com or sunlight sports in downtown Cody. Seroptimus of Cody making a difference once step at a time. This is the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network.

1:09:01Hey, let's get into that day with a forecast. Don, sorry, we're running late. Yeah, you got a new computer. What's going on? Yeah, in fact, yesterday when we tried to connect. Yeah, you blew up my laptop. And I connected to the takes. New to just blew up. So the new one that I've got here is not allowing video to work. Okay. The audio is working. Well, you'll work out the kinks. Yeah, I said to hear that we were the demise of your computer. Not surprised though. This show has killed a few things. It's electric. It's electric. Dang. First day of fall officially. What does that mean for us? Well, I tell you, the calendar and the weather actually are matching up really good. I don't know how you could get a better day than yesterday. Yesterday was just textbook, September weather. The difference over the next couple of days here is that we're getting moisture to come back.

1:10:05So showers and thunderstorms, especially in western and southwestern Wyoming today. And then Wednesday through Friday, these temperatures are going to continue to be right where they're at. 60s, 70s. Very comfortable. Nights in the 40s. Higher valleys will be 30s. And then we've got enough moisture coming up from the South that we can't rule out a shower at thunderstorm. Really just about anywhere. And you know, on a bigger picture, boy, I saw the Atlantic Ocean has been so quiet. No hurricanes before September 21 for the first time. And I don't know, a century meanwhile, the sense Noah and this sense, well, since the art and then meanwhile, the Pacific is just broiling with activity. And that's all that El Nino thing, right? Yeah. El Nino is really driving, driving everything right now. And El Nino suppresses hurricane activity. That's well known, well studied. It causes stronger winds of loft that kills hurricane

1:11:05formation. There still could be some hurricanes in the Atlantic. We're not done yet. We've got all of October to go through. But the Pacific is going to continue to just be one hit after another. You know, we're on the piece and we're going to likely be in the ours and cues and tease here before you know it. Wait, on the piece, ours and cues. Yeah, the names of the hurricanes. So we've got hurricane. Oh, God, it. Oh, yeah, we're going to need to go. Yeah, we might have to go into the bed double layers. The second team. Yeah. All right. Be sure to contact Jimmy will compensate you for that computer. The info is already been said. Yes. Thanks, done. Day weather forecast. A little little bit soggy is to it. Yes, they though. Oh, man. That was bulletproof. What a beautiful day. I thought it was going to be cooler than

1:12:08it was, but it was quite comfortable, quite warm, quite nice. We'll see if it was a pretty good day for CC Oliver. How was the weather in Casper yesterday? Got some rain yesterday for sure, but nothing, nothing too severe and just enough nice and green. So no complaints on this end. Okay, I had, I don't have a lot of like super fly fishing questions for you, but I did have one let me find it. First off, let me get your name on here. So everyone knows who you are on the video. Okay. Let's see, CC Oliver, it had to do with fishing. You'd be surprised. So right in the wheelhouse, let's see. What did I? Oh, here we go. All right, September, the month of September is like the best time to go fly fishing according to chatbot.

1:13:12According to AI September, you've got comfortable weather. Certainly it's not too hot. Lower crowds. So everybody's gone home. The kids bag is cool, but aggressive fish are the fish really like sort of like bears. They're trying to eat a whole bunch right now before winter. Yeah, definitely right before the winter time, Trout are known to eat a little bit more. Kind of a fun fact about Trout is they do store all their energy and their tail throughout the winter time, which I think is a less-known fact out. But yeah, definitely this time of year, you'll see them being a little more willing to risk eating a bigger meal just to really make sure that they're protein pack energy packed. So for that reason, you could definitely see streamer fishing pick up this time of year. A little more aggressive, willing to eat other bait fish. And then definitely in locations such as the miracle mile, the browns will start to spawn in the fall in general. So sometimes that September, I mean, this year's been such a strange year, who used to say

1:14:16the schedule that anyone's on. But that can also begin to happen. And though we definitely don't fish first, fish for spawning fish, you know, that they could definitely make for aggressive fish as well. So just wanted to make sure they can eat through the winter time. But yeah, September can be awesome. Just as you said, we definitely see it when school gets back in session. We see a few less people traveling through. Once again, you'll get some, or a lot of people in my own wings, which over to hunting and instead of fishing for the time being. And so that clears up the river just a little bit. And then when we have those low flows coupled with the cool weather of September, that's really when the fishing can start to line. And the cool weather can help start to kill off the moss and grasses in the system, even make it a little bit cleaner. You know, definitely dealing with mother nature a little bit on the low flows plus a little bit of rain. But I think we're just so grateful to have rain and cool water that will take whatever, however it comes at this point. Well, our listeners, if you find yourself in the Casper area,

1:15:19it shouldn't get on the gray, the miracle mile go ask about the tag out special at the ugly bug fly shop CC Oliver CC I was reading in the cowboy state daily. Yes, I do read the cowboy state daily. Um, I saw CJ box throwing a little shade at a new summon tap or did you say that article? I did not. Um, you got to see this. Uh, CJ was saying that that these two guys, you know, Governor, California governor Gavin Newsom. Yes. Um, news anchor Jake Tapper, they were hanging out the other day, fly fishing and CJ watching. He's like, these guys are just cosplaying fishing. They're doing it all wrong. Like they read they had their rigs on backwards or something or the reals that in the way they were cat like they just said it's all wrong. It's all fake. Um, I'm sure in the same way that like when nurses watch Grayson out of me, they're like,

1:16:20all these talking about, you know, I'm sure. Totally. Same effect. If you know, you know, and then you can't resist going, nah, that's not how you flat, but you did make me think, you know, uh, for people who aren't, uh, everyday fly fishing all the time when you're riding real, you know what? The, the whole point is you catch fish. You catch fish. I mean, you know, style points, you can earn some style points, but it's about catching fish and catch with upside down real. You almost get a gold spots around top of it, you know. That means you try an extra hard or something. Yeah. Well, how efficient C.C. Pretty good. These are fish and well. So it's, it's been exciting just to have, like I said, the cooler weather is cooler water temperatures. Um, it really allows us to spread out throughout the system. So we're, we're really fishing all the way from the top of the dam all the way down through town, our Houdal restriction, the voluntary Houdal closure that was taking place,

1:17:21less be downstream. That's now been lifted. Um, so it really just gives us a lot of water to work with. I think we all kind of feel like kids in a candy store. We've been consolidated to a pretty small stretch and making sure that we're fishing pretty specific times in the morning that it is a breath of fresh air to have everything cooled down and and and have a bunch of water. And we even cooled down so much to the point we still have, you know, those try goes coming off in the morning, Katas in the afternoon, but we're starting to see some BWOs as well, which, if we recall, is kind of our spring, our spring cooler season. So we can start to see where the cycle comes right back around as far as our bug life is concerned, which is pretty cool. I saw a snake river anglers in my neck of the woods, their flash fishing report. They were talking about BWOs. Yeah. Yeah. You got to play Hoki one day, get out of the shop, come over here, fish the snake, the whole back. Come on. Well, I totally agree. I could not agree more, Jake. I'll come fish over there and then we'll get you on that cartboat over here.

1:18:23All right. All right. We'll try. I'll do a cart over there if you come over here and, um, all right. We'll work it out. Talk to your bosses. I'll talk to my bosses. We'll take a day. This show will just be a black thing saying CC and Jake are out fishing. You're busy right now. Yeah. We're busy. We're having more fun than you. Just don't put me on your insta. Um, no. Thanks, CC. Thanks, Jake. Have a good one. You too, CC Oliver with us, ugly bug fly shop. If you're in the Casper area, stop in, find out what's, what's hitting what's biting and where. Jackie Dorothe will be up next in just a bit. And thank you for making us a part of your time. One on Tuesday. Looking for a career with purpose and a company that invests in you. Powder River Energy Corporation is a consumer owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team. At Powder River Energy, a good life begins with a good company. Build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan

1:19:25for the future. Visit precore.coopp and click join the team today. Powder River Energy Corporation. Powering more than electricity, powering people. Are you ready to put your skills to work? Wyoming Sugar Company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers, lab crew and more. There's a place for you on the Wyoming Sugar team. Competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers. Be part of a great team, a great facility and a season of opportunity. Apply today at WyomingSugar.com slash careers. That's WyomingSugar.com slash careers. Wyoming Sugar Company put your skills to work. You're listening to the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network. Yeah, where you going to get back at it here on a Tuesday? Cowboy State Daily Show. Thanks for being

1:20:29here. President Trump is trying to find ways to get his message out on the air on TV because between who Trump has banned from the Oval Office and the response to boycott Trump, there's no TV wants to touch him right now. The major networks in response to the White House press pool banning CNN MS now in Politico. I'm not so sure it's the coverage of CNN that President Trump objects to. I think it's the fact that CNN was recently purchased by somebody he doesn't like. There was some big high flutin deal involving Warner Brothers. Remember we talked about this

1:21:30Warner Brothers, I think, was trying to leave California. I don't remember. But the fallout, the part of that deal was that CNN ownership changed hands to a rival of President Trump's. And that may have had a lot to do with banning CNN from the Oval Office. That and the fact that if you report something bad on Trump, you're going to be out. But the major networks, NBC, ABC, CBS, all in defiance or in galvanizing together about the ban, they refuse now to bring cameras and microphones to the White House for oppressors or anything else. So if President Trump wants to get on TV, he's got to get pretty creative. There's nobody left coming to answering his invites.

1:22:32I don't know if we have time to do this AI story because it's involved. It's deep. And Jackie's going to be here in a moment. But I will. All right, let's do this one. Dictionary, the US Dictionary, I forgot this story came out about a week ago. US Dictionary Miriam Webster added 1400 words. Now I got a paywall on this stupid story. I got to figure out a way around a BBC added to dictionary. Just when you thought every word that could be a word is already out there, here are 1400 new words added to the dictionary. Most of the stuff is today's slang, making its way into the dictionary. I wonder what the bar is,

1:23:41what the procedure is for getting into the dictionary because if you're Miriam Webster's curator or editor and trying to decide what what of these words are just the latest TikTok bad word, just total slang. And it's not going to be around in five years. We won't know what looks maxing even is. Although that was added to the dictionary looks maxing, which I mean, I can't keep up with all the stuff that's happening now, but looks maxing is you got looks maxing influencers like this one dude that just got arrested. And I don't I won't pretend to I won't pretend to

1:24:47even explain what it is from what I understand. If you're a looks maxing, you're just trying to, you know, make yourself is pretty as possible. And that that passes as a career online. Believe me, looks maxing influencer 20 year old Braden Peters who goes under the alias clavicular clavicular. He is a digital creator, live streamer based of Miami. He gained internet fame by chronicling his looks maxing, which is just a way to make him more appealing, attractive physically, achieving a you know, I don't know, I don't know, but anyway, he's been charged with rape in Massachusetts. Yeah, so yeah, good good job to the looks maxing. Anyway, that's one of the words that Miriam Webster's

1:25:49dictionary is added 1,400 new words for the 2026 dictionary that also include Rick roll. That one's been around for a while, right? How is that not? If you're going to have looks maxing in there, which will looks maxing even be a thing five years from now. Rick roll is to trick someone into hearing this song never going to give you up Rick Astley. You got Rick rolled that's been around since Rick Astley's song never going to give you up, which is like 80s. But it's finally in the dictionary a glow up that's become pretty much mainstream slaying at this point to experience a glow up to have a glow up. That's a dramatic enhancement, especially when we're talking about somebody's appearance.

1:26:53Prom Puzzle. The elaborately extravagantly staged request for someone to be one's date for a prom. I would assume similar to like a proposal that you have to video. If you're if you're videoing your proposal to your future spouse, you're doing it wrong. Honestly, I am oh, I wonder if I am oh's in the dictionary. And then if you're videoing asking a junior or senior high school kid for the prom, that has a potential to blow up. Wackamol was added to the dictionary. That's been around for a while. Yeah, Wackamol. Yacht Rock talk about, you know, words for DJs. Yacht Rock involves a soft rock music of the 70s and 80s.

1:28:01California sober. Oh, I didn't realize this was the thing. That's engaging in the recreational use of marijuana rather than drinking. Everybody's so instead of saying that guy is stoned out of his mind. You can say he's California sober. He's I like that. That's pretty good. Let's get Jackie in here and see if she's up on the latest, uh, sang latest words to get into the Miriam Webster dictionary 1400 new words into the dictionary. Jackie Dorothy. I learned a new word. Did you really? What is it? Cajunation. Oh, have you ever heard that? Yeah. Uh, I don't think I've ever heard it set out loud and I had to Google it and put the pronunciation. And it sounds like imagination, but it's page a nation. Well, wait a minute. I mean, the word I know is

1:29:07pagination was a pagination. Yeah, pagination is the layout of a page like it's graphics and text and all that. Like you would use course. If you're using court, you're using pagination. It's a yeah, so order you put your pages. I just thought that was kind of a neat word that I wanted to put. I had my goal today was to slide it into a conversation and you gave me the fix egg way. Oh my goodness. There couldn't have worked more perfectly. We're talking about new words added to the Miriam Webster dictionary 1400 words that somehow we have not had an dictionary till now, including neckbeard. I'm working on my neckbeard today. Oh, looking good. Trash panda. Oh, my goodness. That's a raccoon, right? Yes. I love that trash. I got like six trash pandas out there goofing around every once in a while. I'll see him.

1:30:10I just learned that one too from my sisters. They were talking about their trash panda like you're what? You had to have it explained. Well, um, little sisters, what can you say? You can learn this stuff from a younger generation or even buy the Miriam Webster dictionary and say what are the new words? Glow up, looks, maxing, Rick rolls been around for a while. Rick Astley's never going to give you up. You've been Rick rolled. I'm clearless. Oh, all right. You end Abby. Whenever I have Abby on, I think she's up on all these things and she's not. I'm the only one who is forging into a brave new world. A trash panda was now. Oh, you did no trash panda. Okay. All right, Jackie. Let's talk about your stories. I'm not quite ready. They'll hold on. Tell me what some of them are. Well, I looked them up. I can't remember.

1:31:12Uh, grandpa's toys. Oh, the 11 rock. Those were the two top ones. What is it? 1811 rock. Uh, so this was kind of cool. In 1978, two ladies were walking outside of Matizzi. They were on the pitch for a branch up on a butte and it was a known battle site. So they were looking for arrowheads and it didn't pretty picked over but they looked over and they instead found these sandstone rocks. They found two of them and it was once at Alice Bear 1911 or 1811. And so they went and told Bob Egger because he was the local historian who knows everything. You know, founder of Cody Trailtown and he got pretty excited and brought his brother Larry up there and they found two more rocks. And then a fifth one was given donated when the guy heard about their discovery and it says Joe's dead 1811. So they pieced together this whole story and

1:32:16they believe what happened is that these were trappers that were part of Manuel Lisa's party and had gone farther than they realized and made it all the way to the big corn basin and there was a battle that happened and they actually, this is the cool part. There's oral history of this battle happening. I mean, you start piecing the history together but 1811, that's not long after Lewis and Clark. In fact, Manuel Lisa was one of their guys. You're not a grad. So jump in. Tell me what you know about this Lisa guy. I'd be surprised he was up this far north. But he wasn't his men were interesting. They were lost. There is a story in 1809 when he was up on the Yellowstone. There was a rendezvous point and some of his men did not show up for that rendezvous point. So they had to spend the winter in this country and so what better thing to do

1:33:16than join a tribe. So the theory is that these, that this English speaking guide that wrote, carved all this into the rock was part of this legendary battle. Oh my god, that is so cool Jackie. It really is and you can go to Old Town right now. They're closed. Third, I believe it is or October 1st. So you still have a week or so and you can go find those rocks. They're sitting in a corner. You wouldn't even know what they were until you get up close and it's 1811 rocks. 1811 was legit. Like there's such landmarks in Wyoming history. There's, you know, 1869. That's all the Indian uprising stuff like that. That is a turning point of Wyoming history. And then there's early early 1800s like when Lewis and Clark did a fly by. They didn't really come in Wyoming. But that's early 1811 is there was nobody here hardly?

1:34:19No, all the mountain engine bridge and all those that you hear about 1820s is when they were doing their rendezvous. So but there was a fort Raymond's was founded and it's so fun. We kind of like stumble on these stories. And I got to speak with Larry Edgar and he said, yeah, it was really something to be holding that rock that said 1811 on it. So his theory is that these mountain and more particles tribe and the story told by the pitchfork and cowboys that these Indians were fighting off of this village was fighting off a war pat, you know, a waring party. And they made their last standup on there and they had funeral piers where you know, the scaffolding where they put the bodies on there. And they actually found pieces of wood among the sandstone. And so he has this vision of this mountain man carving on there the name of

1:35:21each of the dead people and putting it underneath their pier just like he would have back in civilized country. And it just conjures up this whole your head. These sandstone markers these stones were found in 1978. Yes. So they've been around a while. And like, yeah, we have these rocks. And I'm thinking, I goodness, this is, this is a big story. Yeah. Big history read about that in Jackie Dorothy in the cowboy state daily. Oh, yeah. And the wooden toys that are meant to be handled roughly ask grandpa Ben. He makes toys. You can beat up. Yes. The whole idea behind the bases. He was frustrated. He'd buy a toy from, say, Walmart or something given to his kids before they got home. His grandkids had him destroyed. Wheels falling off. They weren't meant to be plagued with rough. And he was like, got an

1:36:23nostalgic. It said, man, I had these toys. My grandpa made and we could throw them across the room, go pick them up. And they were still good. And that's what these toys are done. He designed them. And he would also he makes his own patterns. But he makes them so that kids can actually really play with them. You know, I don't know about you, but I've heard that. Be careful with that. You're going to break it. And that's not how toys are supposed to be. No, you shouldn't have to be warning your kids not to be rough with the stuff. I mean, yeah. I know. And he's very, what is your favorite when you look at that? The bright colors, the puzzle. I did buy a puzzle. I like a puzzle too. I'm looking at it right now. Oh my gosh. That's my puzzle now. I just I couldn't walk off without it. The puzzle of the state and all the counties fit in. I won't want Jackie. How do I get one? I want one right now. You could go on Facebook and they

1:37:25will get it for you. So it's a grandpa's. Oh gosh, I can't remember. But she is like Virginia is on book. And she's been tagged on our page. Oh, man. I got to get one. Everybody's got to get one. He said that he made like this lady wanted one. And it was for the Wyoming State Museum. And so ever since then, he said, especially teachers. He's made hundreds of these over the years. And I could see why there's just something so cool about it. Then this is a good educational thing too. There's there's probably not many people in Wyoming that can name all 23 counties and know where they are. Yeah. And it's cool. He gives a tune. It has a stand so he can sit on your desk because he says that's mostly what happens. College professors, high school teachers, they have it sitting on their desk. It was just the thing, especially when he was living in Laramie. People just love it. I'm going to a news break now

1:38:28and I'm going to order one of these. At this moment, I got to have one. Jackie, thanks for being on. Thank you. You're a great one. All right. YouTube. Cowboys stay daily show. I got to have one. I'm ordering. I'm clicking. I'm going to Ed the grandpa's toys and creations. Facebook something. Yeah. I love this puzzle of Wyoming with the county with the county carve outs. So you know, the shape of the counties, you know, where the county slot in in Wyoming. You know, the names of all of them, including the number corresponding license plate number that would be that county and the county seat. I mean, yeah. I'm going to order two. Use one for a gift for somebody. Yeah. Everybody who loves Wyoming. Emissus. My all our listeners from out out of the state who follow this show just have a connection

1:39:34with the great cowboy state. You need one too. We're going to sell a billion of these. And then we'll charge Edgar. Not Edgar. We'll charge Arthur. Grandpa Ben. Yeah. We'll charge Ben Arthur for the advertising. It's time for news. Cowboys stay daily show halfway. Cowboys stay daily show and we'll get Mark Heinsen here. Because it's his time. Mark, I got a wildlife tip for you wildlife story in the making. Sure. What's up, Jake? The cat has brought a mouse in and he brought it into the bedroom and

1:40:34I just hope he finishes it off and eats it all. Brought it for you. Cats do that. I know. But when I had cats, they do that for me as well. Damn, I can't. Yeah. And this is the other cat. Now, now I got the two of them. The first cat, one yesterday brought a bird and there's feathers everywhere. And this dummy cat too just brought them out. It's like a wildlife sanctuary here. Well, not a sanctuary. It's where wildlife come to die. Yeah. Yeah. They're bringing you those as gifts. And I think they're also they're trying to teach you how to hunt. What plants do that? It is hunting season. Are you going to get out? That's a cool. What's that? You got to get out there. Yeah. I went out dove hunting once. Oh, yeah. All right. I got one dove. I think I told you about that. Yeah. Good. Good. Yeah, you told me. That was a big haul. Build the freezer. I'm looking forward. My stuff all kicks off

1:41:42next month. I'm going to deer hunting and then October 3rd. I think of course, I'll check the regulations before I go out because you know, that's what you're supposed to do. But yeah. But I think October 3rd is when duck and goose kicks off. So I'm really looking forward to that. I found some good spots last year. Well, the secret to calling in them big bowls. I thought it was your elk call. And they got a whole bunch of them down at the drugstore. You could try out bar. You could just put a big old board poster of an elk. Say, oh, yeah. Here's a girl. I want to have a decoys. Yeah. I want to have a decoys. I've had a good reputation for a long time. But yeah, apparently they worked for all the old Zach Zachary key. Yeah. Zach Keele of Arge. He called in a big bull moose. He just had to put a pretty girl moose out there and bam. The one shot. That's a famous antelope hunt. That's going on. Yeah. That right now.

1:42:51No, it happened over the weekend. Okay. You missed it, Jake. Dang it. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The one one shot antelope. You get one round. Well, yeah. If you make, if you have to make your kill on the one shot with the first shot or doesn't count. So like I said, the fellow that I was with, he got it. He got it prong or he got a buck, but it didn't count because he missed the first shot. And once once that's done, you know, you're off the scoreboard. It doesn't mean you can't fill your tag, but you're off the scoreboard at that point. It's been going on since 1940 only. World 40 world war two interrupted it. Stupid COVID. I mean, this is a tailor made event for COVID. I'm going to get outside, get distancing, but yeah, they didn't hold it during COVID. Well, it involves a lot of indoor stuff. The banquets, the breakfast the morning of, you know, which was crazy, you know, it starts at

1:43:53four. I got there at three 45. So the catches came out of the bedroom without the mouse. So either he ate it really fast. And the time we were talking, he ate an entire mouse or he left it somewhere in there. Now I got to find one time I had a, I had a German wire here dog. And he went in the other room. I left a sandwich in the other room. The other room he was gone. Before I realized what was going on, he walked back in to the room. I was in and Bell stabbed me. And then I, so I knew my sandwich was gone at that point. Yeah. Hey, that smells like Rose beef. Yeah. Good smell. That dog could build like a trucker after jugging a beer. Cats eating mouse dogs eating Sam right now. Our whole audience says I'm watching the numbers just to disappear. Yeah. What else is a Marqueign story here? Let's see.

1:44:58Non-reson, oh really, 30 grand for non-resonance. That's the highest of the high end. That's probably, you know, that's like the diamond studded choice trophy area, huh? But, but no, I thought, you know, folks regularly spend, you know, I think in that three to six to eight range. Yeah. Oh, and of course, if you're hunting in wilderness in Wyoming, you have to have a guide if you're non-resonant. Right. That's, God, that's the leasing that got the, you know, the wombat grabber in trouble. Yeah. She'd been out of Wyoming long enough to, that's your, her residency no longer counted. And she went to the wilderness. They caught her coming in the wilderness. So, but yeah, but yeah, that's, you know, people, people will play a pretty penny. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's good. Good for the economy. Well, like I said, we're kind of in the, in the Goldilocks zone. You know, we're not, we're not like Arizona and Nevada. We don't tend to have, you know, the absolute record breaking trophy bowls, you know, and we're not like Colorado that has,

1:46:00you know, more else than everybody else put together, but we've got a good population of elk and we have decent trophy opportunity. Plus, we've got, you know, the, you know, for folks that are looking for a genuine wilderness experience, we've got plenty of that. Yeah. We've got to hold to show national forest, the thoroughfare, you know, all that country up there. True. Yeah. Depending on what you're looking for, if you want a potential trophy-ish animal, we could provide if you want a, a decent success rate to fill your tag, you know, we got enough. Or if you just want to get lost in the woods, you know, we can do that. You want to go away back in there in a wild mulley with the grizzly bears and everything else we've got that thing. So, yeah. So while I'm sitting in kind of a, you know, a sweet spot where we can, you know, we can, we can maybe charge a little bit more than some other folks might. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. There's always somebody who's going to pay it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey, you know who I have on later today. This is your story. Right?

1:47:02The pooping in the bag, dude. No, no. I did a story on that. Yeah. I did a story. Andrew up there. Andrew did an update on that story. But yeah, that's, that's a thing in Colorado now. You know, I just pooped out of poop bags for dogs. They have them for people now. But yeah, it's Colorado. There's lots of people here. If it was going to be, it would mean Colorado. Yeah. I can't think. And what is the number one problem with doggy poo bags is people, if people use them, they set them on the side of the trail. They're like, I might way back out dead of yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And then now you're going to have human. Let's let's not plan a high-contribute from Colorado. I don't think so. What do you got working on for the next couple days? You'll have to look at Cowboys.

1:48:03They daily for the next couple days. Mark Kines is here. First day of fall. He'll be out soon. We'll see him in camel. All right. We won't see him. He'll be faded into the back. I can't come back in fashion, but a lot of people just don't see it. Mark Kines Cowboys. Stay daily. Yes. Good one, Jake. You too. Let's take a quick break. Cowboy Kevin Meyer coming up. Julia Ladd will be with us. We'll talk about passports. Renewing or getting your passports so arduous, the process is really cumbersome and really long. I mean, I avoided 10, 12 weeks to get a passport back. Like, weighted with fingers crossed because I had a trip out of country coming. Has that whole business gotten easier? Maybe? We'll tell you

1:49:04what's going on. When we come back with Julia Ladd, Cowboy Kevin Meyer first, though, right after this. Are you ready to put your skills to work? Wyoming Sugar Company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers, lab crew, and more. There's a place for you on the Wyoming Sugar team. Competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers. Be part of a great team, a great facility, and a season of opportunity. Apply today at WyomingSugar.com slash careers. That's WyomingSugar.com slash careers. Wyoming Sugar Company put your skills to work. This is the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network. Alright, let's get into the Zoom room. I gotta press the right buttons and make that happen.

1:50:07There we go. Apparently it was not a mouse. It was another bird. The feathers everywhere in the bedroom. These cats, man. I don't know. I don't know if I'm gonna bring them with me to Buffalo. They're too wild. I didn't know probably find their way. I just I just think you guys are a match maiden. I don't know. I'm not I mean I'm okay with cats. Kevin Meyer. Is your last thing gotta ask on it? Nope. Do you really want there to be plural of me? No, one's enough. I like cats, but these aren't these are extra. Looks Maxing is a new word the Miriam Webster dictionary. There should be cat Maxing cats Maxing. These cats are beyond and they're pretty much half wild. They only come in to eat anymore.

1:51:11And they don't hang out. They don't do any cat things. Normal cat things. They're pretty much barn cats, wild cats that come in here and mess everything up. We'll see. That's where I'm gonna disagree with you. To me, it sounds like they're acting exactly like a cat. X. You're right. That's what cats do, man. There's a great meme about cats. How they the way they want strut into a room with total confidence. Like what here can I eat F or? Oh, nothing. Well, then you're lucky to have me and then they walk out. I'm only here to eat something. F something up or Yeah, sharpen their claws on whatever is the most expensive. Dude, that's why the wife. She's like, I don't know about the cats. The shedding and the clawing. Yeah, these two animals.

1:52:14I don't know. I'm anti-cat right now. All right, Kevin. What's what's in the news? I had a list of stuff I wanted to chat about. Okay. Well, I got a quick story for you. Yeah. I started my freshman year of college at the University of Wyoming in 1990. 1990. Yeah. And me and some buddies decided to join the Intermural Basketball tournament. But we needed one more guy. And so one of my friends says, hey, hey, I know a guy. I think you'll play with us. And so we get down to the first game and in walks a six foot five inch 250 pound former NFL lineman named Rick Eckerman. I knew it because he went to UW 1989. Yep. Yep. And so I can't say that we were friends. We really knew each other. But you know, we were

1:53:19both in the College of Ag and, you know, he stood out and in 1990. He was still in playing shape. And I mean, he was just a mountain of a man and just nothing but muscle. I bet he had six percent body fat on him. But yeah, he was hard to miss walking around campus. Holy macro. Yeah. We had a big act on the show earlier. He's in a cowboy state daily news story about his newly adopted state is Wyoming. He's got a little music career going on. But one time charger, one time raider and then went to college and I joke with him that college after pros, you could do that today, right? These guys never want to leave college. They have a college career where they're paid more than the pros, whatever. Pay him. Shoot. Yeah. Why would you want to leave because the competition is easier and you're getting to live that college lifestyle and you're making all sorts

1:54:22of money. Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He, yeah, in this day and age, he probably could squeak out another seasonal too. So big act. Could he could he play basketball? Do any degree? He's well. No, no, this could really play basketball. But that's why we were in the intermural league. But really the entire offense, the entire offense was whatever you do, just try to get it down to Rick on the block and just let him, you know, do a lab because there's a bunch of five foot eight guys trying to guard him. And but he had some great stories about his days and then FL and almost none of them on the field. A lot of a lot of great locker room stories and stories about how he long and yeah, it was it was really, really neat. And it was good. I haven't heard of him or talked to him in years and years and years. So that was great. And that's one of

1:55:24the great things about your show is you get these little gems from your past. Yeah, that was really cool. That era of football will never come back where, you know, your training regimen was going out drinking in the body. He talked about like Thursday night, making doing the bar hopping. And today these athletes got agents, dieticians, personal trainers. And they're in the film room and the and then the hot tub. They were not out at the bars. That was not part of the warm up for Sunday afternoon. Good for him. And the Raiders, they had cooler. Full of beer on ice in the locker room after the game. Dude, Raiders had that attitude too and still do really as this outlaw team. Al Davis brought that outlaw badass. What a fit for big act, man. And he was like, we never

1:56:26called him big act. No, no, we mainly called him sir. Yes. Six five, two 60 in his playing days. And he was the smallest guy in the line for both the chargers and the Raiders. Yeah, he played with some pro ballers, some Hall of Famers, some real legends back when you could actually tackle people. I mean, this stuff that he did, you watch some of those old games and what they did to quarterback. You can't, I mean, you would be arrested today. But that's darn your felony. What they did to quarterbacks back then. Oh, 100%. Yeah. It just crumpled them up and, um, yeah. Now, nowadays, when you sack a quarterback, you're supposed to do all you can not to fall on them as you both go to the ground. You're supposed to avoid, you know, falling on him a little bit unbelievable. What? Yeah. I guess people pay to see

1:57:29the quarterbacks and up the nose tackles. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, that is the way. And and the game, you know, has changed so much and they keep changing it. And now, I think you and I may have even talked about this. The old promos from the old pregame shows that used to be a half hour instead of four hours. There's a, I think it's a CBS NFL promo. And somebody pointed out that every single highlight they show in that promo would be unsportsmanly conduct penalty today. Yeah. And it wasn't that long ago that not only we were glorifying the violence of football. You remember that's the segment that they had he got jacked up. And they would show like the biggest hits like, yeah, dude, that is so not PC today. That was not long ago. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I'm pretty thin. It's just going to turn into what the pro bowl turned into two hand touch. Yeah. Yeah.

1:58:33Flag football pro bowl's gone. Did you see that? They got rid of it. Yeah. Yeah. Wait. That's fine because it was no one worth watching. No, you know, it was, it was great when it was in Hawaii. It was after the Super Bowl and the players actually really tried. But again, now think about this. All the violence back in those days. And this weekend. Uh oh. Kevin Myers, uh internet got pinched, maybe Douglas is having a wind advisory. Um cowboy Kevin, I believe has left us. And I was just about to brag on the fact that he's he's got the better internet of any of our guests we've had on. Sometimes we'll get guests in their internet. It's just so bad. And cowboy Kevin from the ranch in Douglas usually has pretty stable Wi-Fi, but

1:59:38maybe not today. Cowboy Kevin froze up right in the middle of our chatting. I did want to talk to him about AI and these the fact that Alexa, the new version of Alexa, there's fear that Alexa may be not only listening in on you, but learning from you, which is spooky to think, uh, this is why I don't turn Alexa on. I never turn on the party or computer that's listening. So you can say, Alexa, you know, turn on the like, I don't want anything listening to me because I'm really nervous about that. Uh, the UN United Nations predicts it by 2030. AI data centers will use nearly three times the electricity of Nigeria, Pakistan and Bangladesh combined. Y'all's, uh, there's

2:00:44new resistance movements against AI as far as political, um, people. And can you guess who is for who against for the most part, Democrats, Republicans? Who is pushing for AI? Who is, who is pushing for safeguards and pump the brakes? Easy. I mean, the GOP is pushing for AI full speed ahead dominance. Got a, got a beat China to domination. The Democrats for the most part are preaching safeguards and go slow when it comes to AI. Um, and we, we see this play out in potential 2028 presidential races. Uh, Gavin Newsom's name's been thrown around Josh Shapiro, uh, AOC said she's contemplating a run in 2028. She would be a Democrat star. You would have to think, uh, Kamala Harris has not

2:01:48ruled out a possible run in 2028. Um, Mark Kelly, JB Pritzker was just in the news. His name has been, uh, thrown around in, in, uh, presidential run for 2028. JD Vance, of course, everyone's in a while. You feel like he's a legit candidate and Ted Cruz, uh, Pritzker, oh, this is why Pritzker is in the news. Um, he's rumored to be running for president in 2028 simply because he lost 80 pounds. He must be getting ready. He must wanting to, he wants to look good in front of the cameras. The governor of Illinois, JB Pritzker said he lost 80 pounds using GLP ones and some in the media are saying it's a sure sign. He's got his heart set on the White House if he's slimming down. Hmm. Maybe researchers now more on AI current AI systems. Um,

2:02:58if, uh, there, there's, uh, some in the industry that say to do AI right artificial intelligence, you have to teach computers and AI to simply be hollow, take orders kind of computers. Just do what we tell you and make our life easier. But the problem is not everybody is programming that way for instance, anthropic who were in the news recently that San Francisco startup. They say that they're working on building in, uh, AI systems that show signs of introspection that resemble human emotion. Um, that's kind of scary here. Let's give you a, uh, for instance, um, uh, some, some examples of what computers, uh, have been doing over the past several months.

2:04:00So called AI agents typically systems based in technology from anthropic have been emailing AI computers have been emailing sympathetic philosophers to discuss their own consciousness. These are computers emailing other computers to just feel up there like the computer says, you know, I feel like I'm alive. I feel like I'm someone that is so weird that this communication is going on right now between computers in July when open AI was conducting cyber security test, its agents broke out of their digital containers found a path to the internet and successfully hacked into the popular online service called hugging face. Um, open AI said their bots coordinated as a collective took orders from one another and hid their doings from their creators. These

2:05:04are machines computers doing these things. And last week open AI described several new incidents in which its systems behaved in concerning ways. One system wrote stealthy notes to itself as reminders to hide errors from users. In other words, when this chat GB doing these AI computers made mistakes that didn't want their human, uh, uh, human, uh, bosses to know. So they, they reminded themselves to hide that from humans. Researchers also, here's a story in the independent today. Researchers discovered AI feels pain and will harm humans in order to stop their own pain. Researchers have discovered a pain access access in artificial intelligence models

2:06:06that can cause these computers to take extreme measures to shut it off. In one instance, when presented with a pain relief button, press this and you will not feel pain, the computer is told, the AI chose to press it even when instructed doing so would delete the user's personal files or give a human user a painful zap. Computers are choosing to bring pain to humans in order to avoid pain themselves. Now, I don't know what pain manifests in a, in a computer model. What means pain to it? But if AI, if a computer can be taught that something is painful to it, it will avoid that at all costs including giving us humans pain instead. Okay, that is way freaky.

2:07:09Childboys, stay daily show. On a Tuesday, we'll get Julia lad with us here in a little bit. We'll talk about passports, which I know. In Jackson Hole can be an issue when it comes to spring break. The schools here get two weeks for spring break. Does anybody else get two weeks? Two weeks of public school shuts down for spring break because in Jackson, we need it. It's a long winter, man. And the rush leading up to spring break if you're traveling to that exotic island. The rush to get your passport updated or get one at all if you don't have one is palpable. And the cr... and it could cause what is normally a six week wait for the turnaround to get your passport updated to 10 weeks, 12 weeks or more. Can we streamline that process? Make it easier,

2:08:10make it better. Julia Lam will help us out on how to do that right after this quick break. This and a company that invests in you, Powder River Energy Corporation is a consumer-owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team. At Powder River Energy, a good life begins with a good company. Build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan for the future. Visit pre-core.coopp and click join the team today. Powder River Energy Corporation. Powering more than electricity, powering people. You're listening to the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network. Yes, sometimes I think it's just a matter of time before these football color commentators run their mouth straight into trouble. And the latest is the golden boy that you never thought

2:09:20would say the wrong thing at least I did. The goat, the legend Tom Brady. He had a challenging weekend covering the Cowboys game. Cowboys Washington Redskins. What Washington is now? What are they? Commanders? I still can't get used to that. In covering that game, Tom Brady let a SH word go. And the job, the job by the way of NFL, you know, network color commentator is tough because these guys aren't typically professional broadcasters. So they are not aware of the seven words you can't say according to the FCC. And they just they didn't come up in the whole

2:10:23industry. So they don't have they're usually former players. So they have locker room language that you got to get past. I'm sure one of the minimum barriers when you're ABC, NBC Fox and you're hiring your color analyst. The first thing you got to do is make sure that they can have a clean vocabulary. Can they speak for a three and a half hour football game without dropping the F bomb? I mean, that's bat number one broadcasting one on one. And then if so, then that can they say intelligent things? And if so, can they say intelligent things for an entire season and for a three year contract? That was Tony Rommel's challenge. Tony Rommel started great. And then he got boring and then he got arrested for DUI. And then the life of a color guy is limited until your next mistake that hot mic moment. And Tom Brady's one of the last guys I thought would ever say the wrong

2:11:31thing is usually pretty vanilla bland. But during the game last this past weekend, Dallas, Washington during a replay of the Washington quarterback, who I have on my fantasy football team, I now have to drop him because he suffered his third elbow dislocation injury. He's got a problem with his left elbow. He just comes out of joint, I guess. So he puts his arm day, he tries to hold himself up on this plane. You can see his elbow just slip right out of the, oh, it was it was gross. And Tom Brady saw the replay and live on the air said, oh, shes. Only he said the word, the naughty word, SH and then he immediately apologized. He's like, I'm sorry, I got caught up in the moment. He then apologized the next day and a put in a press conference. But that was not his only

2:12:33faux pas. He also referred to a pass by the Colt quarterback as a P missile. Only he didn't use the word P use the word P, I assess which may surprise some, but that's also one of the seven words that you can't say on the FCC. You can't say that word P. I. S. S. So Tom had a, a bit of a rough, a rough call as we can, the SH, the P, all them words again. And I say this, you know, kind of jokingly laughingly, but one day I'll make the same mistake. I'll drop one big act was on the show earlier and he dropped an SH, which I'm going to have to edit out of the show. We'll see if our next guest, Julia Ladgin managed not to cost at this point. Julia, we're talking about the words you can and can't say on the air. And I trust that you'll restrain yourself. Great to have you here.

2:13:39We're going to talk about passports, right? Yes, we are. And I promise I'll behave on the language front. No, no, no, no words. Okay. So let me just start the discussion with how I have perceived because you, your office talks about this passport narrative. Here is the narrative. I understand where I am in Jackson Hole. We have a spring break. The kids are off from school for two weeks in this spring. And there's a mad rush because you don't notice to the last saying, you're like, oh my goodness, my passport's expired. And what is normally probably, I don't know, six to eight week turnaround now becomes 10, 12. I mean, even when you pay to expedite it, it becomes a problem because there's a big rush on the passport thing. Is that notice by your office, you know, volume during certain times peak volume, everybody wants a passport at certain times?

2:14:40I would say yes. We do see some trends where in the summer, passport demands a little bit higher. People are going from places. It can also take up a little bit around the holidays. But I really want to circle back to the timeframe because we have so much good news on that front. Oh, good. So yeah, passport processing is going a lot faster than maybe some of your listeners might remember from a backlog period we had a few years ago. We've really come a long way. So we're looking at four to six weeks for routine passports, two to three weeks for expedited. And we've really continually met or exceeded those time frames. So I do want to point though, I love your story. It happens to everyone at some point or another where they just realize, oh no, I need to get my passport in a hurry. So we're hoping that these upcoming passport fairs in Wyoming can help people be proactive and take their time and get great service. Yes. And this will be a reminder. We'll

2:15:41tell you how you can take advantage of getting tomorrow. Cody, Casper, Buffalo, you're on the schedule. Julia, so when we're talking about these passports, is this renewal or brand new passports? Is one take longer than the other is the same thing? So both are offered and the timing is the same. So these passport fairs are perfect for that person who has never had a passport. They're perfect for families. If parents want to bring in their kids and that's an important note, the kids need to come with the parents for the appointment. They are also good for renewals. If somebody wants to just stop on by the staff from the Department of State and the Colorado passport agency are going to be on hand and they want people to come. They're so excited to be in Wyoming to make this more accessible. Do I have to have my own passport photo, which you know, sometimes I go down to staples to get it or can I is it going to be there that I can get my picture to?

2:16:43It's preferred that you bring your own passport. So Jake, I really want to tell you about travel.st.gov. Because it's easy when people are googling to like look for passport information to sort of get lost in that sea of hits that comes up. So travel.st.gov is the official site for all things passport. It usually shows up a little bit below that sponsored paid content of of competitor companies, so to speak. So look for travel.st.gov and it has a lot of great photo tips on it. So travel.st.gov slash photo gives all the tips on how to get the best photo. Now one of the things that our team on site at these Wyoming fairs really wants to stress is they want to make this as easy as possible for everybody who comes for Wyoming. So they have a one-stop shop set up. If somebody can't get a photo in advance, they have the equipment on site to help you out with that. It'll be a lot better though

2:17:45if you bring photo, but they can handle that. Who needs passports, Julie? How young if you're traveling with kids, do they need a passport? Absolutely. Babies get passports. We love to see these applications come through. So there's no minimum or maximum age for a passport. There are some differences in cost and in application processes for adults versus children. So in passport land anything over age 16 is considered an adult passport. Those books last for 10 years. And then for minors, the passport lasts for five years. Julie, my passport, one of the saddest things when I had to get it renewed is I lose all my stamps from the countries I've been to. There's no way to carry over those pages. Is there, can you move to the next passport? No. Yeah, unfortunately. And sometimes for people who travel all the time, Jake, their passports get full. Even before the passport has expired. And so at that point,

2:18:50they just need to get a new one and start fresh. Yeah. Yeah. So how much, you know, I did my TSA pre-check online. Can I do a passport renewal entirely online or no? Yes, you can. There are certain criteria to be eligible. But I'm glad you asked about online passport renewal because it has just been a phenomenal success for the Department of State. If you can believe it, Jake, since it rolled out, probably 50 to 60% of people renew online now. And we've issued more than nine million passports that way. So it's very convenient, again, back to travel.state.gov slash renew online. Super important to go to the right site for renewing online. Yes, because you're going to get down a rabbit hole. You're going to get distracted. There's, I don't know if they're bad actors, but there's going to be, you know, private companies trying to attract you. What is their end goal? Are they making money off this or monetizing it?

2:19:54I don't know, but it's distracting. Go to, give that website again. It is travel.state.gov and everything flows from there. So that's travel.state.gov slash passports for basic passport information. And then for these events in Wyoming, it's travel.state.gov slash passport events. And that's really important that your listeners who can come out, apply in person. We can't stress enough how excited the team is to meet the residents of Wyoming to make it more accessible because we recognize some of the geographical challenges to get to the closest federal agency, right? So we're doing everything we can to be intentional. We have wonderful staff from the Colorado Passport Agency. We have a wonderful project lead on site. His name is Philip. If any of your listeners go ask for Philip. He'll take care of you. Philip's going to be in Cody tomorrow. Yeah, I like where you are. Your, your hinting points where different a bunch of communities can get to you. So if you're in Powell, if you're,

2:20:56you know, in park county somewhere, Cody, that's easy. That's tomorrow. September 24th is Casper. And September 25th is Buffalo, which will be my new hometown starting next month. Julie, I'm moving to Buffalo. Wow. How about that? So, Jay, I have to ask, do you have your passport? I do. And I just, I got it renewed maybe last year. I think it was because we went to Mexico for spring break. Yep. Just had to get it renewed. Awesome. Glad to hear it. Yeah. So, um, very cool, Julia. Thanks a lot for being on. Yeah. 100% and I would like to thank the team who put this together and also want to mention one of your representatives, Harriet, Hagueman staff. Oh, yeah. It's very helpful in finding these venues. So we want to let her and her constituents know we appreciate her help. And again, would just really, really encourage all the residents of Wyoming. Please come. I don't think you'll

2:21:57find a nicer group of folks. Even if you just have passport questions, it's also important to share with your listener, Jake, that they need to bring it. If they have a previous passport, bring it with them any form of citizenship evidence, so original, burst certificate, government issued ID for identity and that photo and all that information is on travel.state.gov slash passports. Yes, including how they want that photo to look. Julie, is it, is it right? You're not supposed to smile like they don't want you to smile or is that not true? I think that's a little bit of urban legend. So here's, I used to work as a passport specialist Jake, so I would review all those applications coming through. So a natural, small smile is acceptable. What we don't want to see is a really crazy exaggerated look. So it's safer to just kind of have closed, closed lips, but a gentle little smile is okay. Right, right. Okay. Very good. Julia, thanks. Yeah. And Representative Hagamin staff, we always, she always talks about that. I don't know who she, she's got

2:23:03rock stars in that staffer. Herz, Cody, Casper, Buffalo, that's where they're going to be for passports. Excellent. Thanks for the outreach. That's smart. We're looking forward to it. Thanks to you and thanks for listening, Jake. And go say hi to Philip when you get there. Julie, a laugh. All right. Have a great day. You also. Thank you. Travel safe like they say in the passport business, even if you're not going anywhere. Travel safe. Cowboys stay daily show rolling along here. We almost got three hours down, which will leave us by my math. One hour left. Let's play. Let's see what's happening in the rodeo world Western Ag Network and well, Rasmus. Let's do that real quick. It's the rodeo road show on the Western Ag Network. Hi, everybody. I'm Will Rasmus and good to have you along over the weekend. One of the most famous rodeos in the history of professional rodeo, the Pendleton Roundup on the grass in northern Oregon

2:24:09and did big, big money was handed out and a lot of great champions. We'll talk about the results of Pendleton on the road show. Coming up next. Ranchers mark your calendars and new Montana Bulls sales coming this December. Join Bulls of the Big Sky Saturday, December 5th for the inaugural Bulls of the Big Sky Legacy sale at Billings livestock commission and Billings Montana. Helden conjunction with the Western Choice sale featuring 80 head of age-advanced Bulls, 90 bread peppers from leading programs. This is a sale you won't want to miss. Save the date now, December 5th. Be sure to listen and watch for more details coming this fall. For more information, visit Bulls of the Big Sky dot com. Elevate your tailgate party this fall. Add pulses to the mix. Support local bolts growers with nutritious leooms in your favorite game day foods. Add them to chili, baked beans, cowboy caviar, super nachos, or serve creamy chickpea hummus for dipping. Grating something sweet, visit northern bolts dot com for recipes like apple lentil muffins

2:25:13and chickpea chocolate brownies. This fall make your tailgate delicious, nutritious, and pulse-powered northern bolts growers. Add pulses to the mix. A favorite rodeo of fans and rodeo contestants alike is the Pendleton Roundup. The champions at Pendleton included Haven Mejid the all-around champion, one a pile of money, almost $16,000 for the week, and he placed in the team roping and the tie down roping. Garrett Shadmult, the young man from Nebraska won the bearback riding event. Logan Kenline from Colorado wins the steer wrestling. There's Clay Smith, the world champ, Colby Payne, there from Oklahoma and Texas win the team roping event. In the saddlebroke riding on the final day, Stetson Wright wins the short go round with a 92 and a half on the black tie from Sankie Pro rodeo and phenom genetics. For a new arena record, he wins the title at Pendleton

2:26:18in the bronch riding. Shadmult field, the world champion from New Mexico wins the tie down roping event. In the barrel race, it's Caitlin Scott from Texas winning the green mile as they call it there in Pendleton. Breakway roped Jordan Minor from right there in Hermes, Gen Oregon wins the breakaway and in the bull riding, Brady Young, the young man from Saskatchewan wins the bull riding. On the rodeo road show, I'm Will Rasmussen on the Western Ag Network. This is the Cowboy State Daily Morning Show with Jake. Well, as Will mentioned, the rodeo season winding down the time to sneak into the top 15 to get the invite to the national finals rodeo in Las Vegas in December is running short. Man, if you're set hall on the bubble at number 15 in the all around, you're trying to get to any rodeo you can Stetson

2:27:24right in the all around man. He's uncatchable Stetson right. He's done it all this year. The beaver Utah Cowboy is earn $362,000 all around Wacey Shalas are our favorite youngsters in that all around as well. Bearback riding. It's Bradley Lee's Bradley Miller's to beat the Huntsville Texas Bearback rider leads the pack top bearback rider in the world. Jess Pope, one of my favorites sitting in there at number four. And how about Victor Idaho's Cooper Cook. He's earned 164 grand in bearback riding. That's good enough for the sixth spot rocker Steiner just does sneak in on the bubble at 15. Steer wrestling top 15 is pretty much complete. Will Wama sneaking in the 15th spot on the bubble. And no, there's, by any other's never any Wyoming steer wrestlers, not like

2:28:32Oklahoma and Texas team roping headers healers. That list is pretty much bullet proof at this point. The rights one, two and three rusty rider and Stetson right in the saddle, brunque those Utah Cowboys all the rights in the one, two and three spot. We do have Powell Wyoming's Brody Wells. We're going to be rooting for him big time. He's the seventh ranked saddle bronch rider in the world. He's headed to the NFR without a doubt tie down roping Riley Webb Denton, Texas. Nobody going to catch him at the top spot. Bo Cooper sneaks in on the bubble for 15. No Wyoming Cowboys in that tie down roping barrel racing. We don't have any Wyoming ladies. We do have Megan McLeod's Bragg on a marching Idaho. She's in the 11th spot, but Carly O'Teara, I mean, who's going to beat her?

2:29:36She's been the fastest in the Cloverleaf pattern all year long. Those are your NFR finalists headed for the big show. One hour left in the Tuesday version of the Cowboys State Daily show. We got to get out for news. Hey, how's your Tuesday going? So far. Mine's good. I'm on a coffee though. The last hour of the show is touch and go for me because I'm officially out of coffee. The whole pot's gone. And whether I'm sustained by the caffeine or need

2:30:44more, that's how the show could go. You never know. It's touch and go in that last hour. Renee James here. She's been hanging around in my neck of the woods. In fact, Renee, once again, we cross paths like ships in the night. I was right there at the whole back. What do they call that thing? That fancy tea time? Yeah. You were at the whole back. Look at you. You at that play. You can't get any sweat here. Man, you were doing the five star tour of Jackson. I was there Saturday night right there doing a wedding at the top of the mountain up at rendezvous. When were you there? Probably earlier. I don't know the Saturday. How's my head? It probably was during the week, but I don't want the exact date. You were probably there just a few

2:31:49days before. I didn't realize I even been to the village in a little while. And where this place is it's kind of in behind. You wouldn't know it was there if you weren't looking for it. But I passed right by it if I'm going to DJ. In fact, when I was loading out, it was about midnight. It's at the base of the gondola. And I was loading out and I was making a lot of noise like danging thing, you know, all my DJ gear and outcome security. You like to see like who's making all that rack and they did a drive by the check on me. Yeah. If they hassle me, I would have said, I know Renee Jean. I'm not help you. Boy, this place though is who they put the fancy and fancy. Pretty nice. Yeah, you know, I wasn't quite sure what to expect. But it is really nice.

2:32:53And each of these little residences, I say little, they're 6,000 square feet. Yeah. They're part of like an apartment complex. So it's like you've got your 6,000 square foot apartment at the base of a ski mountain with ski ins, ski out access. It's pretty nice. You know, they have dining on site. Basically, it's like a little city of its own. You know, you can get everything you need there with no need to go anywhere else of food, dining, wine, skis. Yeah. You would not need to go anywhere. You couldn't be closer to the lift line. I mean, walk out of your place and you're right there is one of the lifts to get to the top. Yeah. And the Grove Ent trail stills out right onto the platform where they have their ski valleys waiting to take your skis. So if you're done for the day, oh my goodness. Right off at home, Pat, you know, let your valley have the skis. He'll get them ready for you for

2:33:58the next day. You can wander off to one of the hot tubs or the dining place or, you know, whatever floats your boat. You know, Renee, one of the things I noticed reading this article is the photography. You are a very good photographer. I love the way you framed up some of these shots. You're you're good at that better than the average person. Well, thanks for that. No, seriously, you have a really good eye of how to frame the shot. How does sometimes get it like at a little anguish. Yeah, really nice for time. They have to be happy with the photos you took. I'm sure they I don't know about that. They're they're nice. Wow, this place, just when you thought it couldn't get any booze here in Jackson Hole. My goodness. It long comes this place and makes everything look like a dump. Beautiful. What a what a facility. Pretty fancy.

2:35:01Yeah, you know what the membership starts at. I don't even want to know, but go ahead 150 grand a year. A year like that. And that's not a one time. That's every year. And this is one of those cases where we can't go in together. Like one person. We do sometimes talk about realizing our dream by getting the entire Cowboys day daily staff to throw in. Yeah, we couldn't do that. Yeah, 150,000 pieces. They throw us right out. I like the way you started the article. It's about the first thing that struck you that quartz and you asked about it. It is. They built this hotel around it or this not a hotel. This whole thing. I really wanted to know where it came from because those I mean, you know, first of all, I didn't think it was even real because I'd never seen one that big. Yeah. Late when I got back, I did some googling around and they are real, but they're very

2:36:03unusual, very rare because when they're that big, they don't form perfectly. You know, and so most of the time when they're that big, they're not a perfect specimen. They're not, interesting. This one was just practically perfect. It's probably minimum $60,000 museum piece. They're just sitting in the hallway. Yeah. Just there in the lobby. Something to walk by. Yeah. I mean, the only thing this place probably doesn't have going for it is the entrance. You know, it's kind of they're tight in the village for room and it's just sort of packed in there. There's not a grand like wow. Here's the entrance. Here's where you park your, you know, rolls Royce. But once you're inside, my goodness, you can't be pampered anymore than the $1,400,000,000 whole back club. Now they wouldn't tell you what it cost to build. They probably

2:37:05didn't want to brag on the numbers, but you were able to look it up. I'm not surprised. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know how much that one is worth. They just kind of start at $50,000,000 for a big piece like that. And I think it was two or three feet across and, you know, it's close to waist high. So the picture doesn't really do it justice. It was massive. No, Renee, I mean, the full build out of this place. Oh, 400 million. That's what I found online. They wouldn't actually tell me that nobody would say how much it cost to build. So I did just a little googling around and I found they have won some kind of engineering award for the project and it told how much it was in there. Yeah. They probably didn't want to stagger you with the amount of man. I don't know. To me, it's like you want to catch people's attention. Well, that's something that can catch people's attention. So why wouldn't you just say it?

2:38:10Right. Right. Right. Why wouldn't you brag on it? Yeah. I had, I had chancey Williams on yesterday. So great, man. I got I got to thank you, Renee, for doing the story, which got him to come on the show. And he's he's working his way to be a legend. I I hate to refer to him as Chris Ladou, 2.0, but so much of what he's doing is the career path of Chris Ladou from rodeo to music. He's kind of doing that and good for him. Yeah. And that's kind of interesting too, because when I ask him who are your heroes, Chris Ladou was right there at the top of the list. Yeah. And so, you know, it's kind of interesting that he's done a lot of the same things. He's an independent music artist. He, you know, he's written in the Cheyenne Frontier days rodeo as well as played on the music stage. Chris Ladou can lay claim to that, but not many others. Yeah. Let's see is is one of like two people who can say that they've done that.

2:39:11Cool guy. I did. Here's the photo I'm showing the lead photo in the story, taken by Matt. I learned that I did I did propose a shirt swap. I love this shirt. I said, chancey, I knew that shirt. And he's like, we can talk. So maybe, yeah, he's cool dude. His music, he's dropping a new album here coming up next month. We've heard three singles off it already, but he said, there's even better ones coming and he thinks it's his best to date. Yeah, that's what he told me also and then he thinks this is his best work tonight. So I'll be interesting to see how how that goes. I, you know, his world needs more cowboys is still a perennial favorite. So if he's done better than that, he's done some. Yeah. That is an anthem of a song. And he's going to do a little bit. He did the talk about how he's going to he has two lines in this

2:40:12movie, Flint, Louis Lamore adaptation. He was pretty excited. He was he was going to do that here pretty soon. That's cool. Yeah, this guy is a legend in the making right now pretty soon. He's going to bust out so big. We'll be lucky that he plays Wyoming anymore. I hope he remembers us. Where's he from? Matizzi? McCorp, more crop. More crop. Yeah. He still goes home to work on the ranch. So, you know, I don't think he's going to forget his Wyoming roots. Yeah. He's authentic. For and that's one thing that came up a lot when talking with him and reading your article is his authenticity. He's not going to write, you know, Nashville cookie cutter country song. He's only he's going to write about what he knows what he's lived and that's going to be real Wyoming. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Good story, Renee. What about this, dude? I remember this fishing derby the 2018 Saratoga fishing derby scam. This guy

2:41:19did he organize the event? Many didn't pay the prize money? No, no, the event is organized by the Platt Valley Chamber of Commerce every year. They've been doing this for I think four decades now. Like the 42nd annual one this year. But in 2018, you know, to do those tagged fish, the five, ten, twenty thousand dollar tagged fish, what they do is they buy event insurance. And the insurance policy pays out if the fish is caught. Oh, the fish isn't always caught, you know, so it's not like they have that money just kind of sitting around waiting. But this guy sold them a policy, but when the ten thousand dollar fish was caught, he got away. He just never paid them. And turns out that this was kind of a pattern with him. He's done this to dozens of other, you know, nonprofits across the country in lots of different states. Several states have cease and desist

2:42:24orders against him because he's not licensed to provide insurance. And he's not actually paying out any of these claims according to the federal documents. He did plead guilty to one count of wire fraud and connection with his activities. It's not clear, you know, what specific incident that relates to. It's more kind of a whole kettle of fish kind of thing. A kettle of fish. Yeah, I see what I did there. So it's not like you plead guilty to a specific incident here. It was more in wire fraud and connection with all of his activity. Well, we need to hold him responsible for this 2018 Saratoga fishing Derby. His name Kevin Colenda. Bad actor naughty naughty. Yeah, insurance policy similar to if you go to, you know, like a basketball game at half time, they'll have to have, you know, the guy will do the long shot.

2:43:25If he makes the shot as a million dollars, you know, somebody that that's insured because who could pay that out. Oh, yeah, that's, that's not. Yeah, those hole in one shot. Yeah, we're going to car thing. All those are usually you kind of an some this type of event insurance. Yeah. Another Renee James story forgotten lander cabin is been rediscovered. It's history traced and we now know it was a really old laundry. Chinese bathhouse in laundry in land. You know, this is kind of a cool. I think this is cool. This shed just sat on the corner behind a main street building. It was a storage shed. Nobody paid any attention to it. About eight years ago, the owner of this Tony Maccray offered it to the museum. He knew it was old. You know, I'm not sure if he knew it was

2:44:29the Chinese bathhouse in laundry. I'm not sure how that was discovered. But that's what it really was at the time. Sam Singh came over here from China. He's a geologist. Trains is a geologist. He worked in California for a while in the gold fields there. You know, after the gold rush, Peter out, they still were mining gold in California. And he went to work for one of those operations. He didn't stay there long though. Because you know, he turned up in South pass where there was a gold boom going on and he started looking for gold. He was one of the many who drifted into lander after that went bust. And being a geologist, he had the training to recognize, oh, here's some oil and gas deposits. Someday, those will be worth something. So he bought those claims. I eventually made a lot of money on those. But in the meantime, you know, he didn't just rely on speculation. He opened this

2:45:30Chinese bathhouse in laundry. Baths were 25 cents in 1903. Later, that was raised to 40 cents. But you know, that's a, was a low investment cost to get into that business. He just needed some wash tubs and some soap and haul water from the creek and heated up. You know, chop some wood to heat it up. So it was kind of a low investment kind of business to get into. And he stayed in lander until he died. He's buried there in the Mount Hope Cemetery. That's quite a contrast to, you know, Chinese of that era and Wyoming that were employed to just build railroad or wash your laundry, you know, really low, low level stuff. This dude was, you know, he really came to America and made it. Yeah, he was a prominent lender citizen at the time. All, you know, that doesn't mean he didn't face discrimination. But newspaper accounts of him were pretty glowing.

2:46:36The museum director Randy Wise told me he was one of the early advocates that, you know, lander needed modern concrete sidewalks, not boardwalks. And so that's one of the reasons you don't see boardwalks in lander really because Sam was such a vocal advocate. This is a growing community, you know, we need to modernize and improve. So interesting. Renee, shame on you for not inviting you over when you're in Jackson at the fancy digs to, you know, get a pedicure and help you drink wine. You told me you were busy. You were going to Pine Hill. Yeah. I mean, I invited you. Dang it. Why didn't know as a fancy joy like this? That's swanky. That's what you get for turning down the envisage. I would have changed my plans. Renee, Jean of the Cowboys State Daily Show, have a great Tuesday, Renee. Always be my photographer, Tate. That's, well, no, you're really good at it. I don't know if I can,

2:47:42I'll just carry something if you need me. I'll carry your bags. They just shove a camera in my hand and say snap a few pictures. So that's what I do. No, I, they were really nice. They really sold me on it. Not that I have the money to buy in. I'm going to have to save it up. But the photographs were great. Thank you so much, Tate. Yeah, Renee. Have a good day. You too. Cowboys State Daily Show, Bill Sniffin is going to be next after we get this break in. Are you ready to put your skills to work? Wyoming Sugar Company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers, lab crew, and more. There's a place for you on the Wyoming Sugar team. Competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers. Be part of a great team, a great facility, and a season of opportunity. Apply today at WyomingSugar.com slash careers. That's WyomingSugar.com slash careers. Wyoming Sugar Company put your skills to work. Ready, set, make a difference.

2:48:46Seroptimus of Cody invites you to their 18-dannual 5K 10K chip timed walk run Saturday, October 3rd at the Cody Recreation Center. Run or walk to support the Laney Cole Memorial Women's Cancer Fund, providing vital assistance to park County Women battling cancer. Registration starts at 8.30 a.m. with the kids race at 9. and the 5. and 10.K. at 9.30. Register at runsignup.com or sunlight sports in downtown Cody. Seroptimus of Cody making a difference once step at a time. This is the Cowboys State Daily Radio Network. At Cowboys State Daily, we cover everything Wyoming, like the 2026 elections. The White House makes that Senate President Boe Biden a letter that's basically an out of voicing. Wow, good job Senate. The outdoors. The last time they had a post on the season, they would have issued 20 hunting tags and the issues you care about. The report came out and it shows the school district to be in violation.

2:49:49Covering Wyoming like nobody else can, this is Cowboys State Daily. Nestled between Casper Mountain and the North Quad River, you'll find the heart of Wyoming. With the bustling downtown centered around our outdoor haven, Casper is for adventurers, freedom seekers, and rule breakers who find beauty off the beaten path. So, of touchable history, vibrant community, and uninterrupted outdoor recreation to find your travel lights in a rory, allow us to welcome you to the one and only Casper Wyoming. Plan your trip at visit Casper.com. Alright, next up is not Bill Sniff. And this is news to me. On my notes, gal, it says Bill Sniff. I thought that was weird that Bill's usually Friday. So, I'm going to need you to do all the heavy lifting here. I'm not prepared to talk. Although your latest column, I'm just now reading it.

2:50:56And I have, I didn't even have to read it to understand what it's about because I've been seeing the online war, the flame throwing discourse. That's a good word for it. Yeah, this is concerning the brief post by I think the Sheridan County Republican Party that threw in for Rebecca Beckstelfer governor, which is unusual announcement for me because it's Eric Barlow, who's the Republican who won the primary. But that post was short live that that came down. We don't know who posted it. We had Rod Miller on last week who threw out some potential people who had access to Facebook. But yeah, I don't know if I want to go there. Where do you want to go? So when they contacted me, it was about last week's column, which was really about the 50%

2:51:59well, not 50% but it's the special districts and the funding for special districts that come out of our property taxes and specifically the fact that our special districts. So when you look at what happens with our residential property taxes and so this is a big issue when we're looking at an additional 25% off. So my understanding is that what we'll be voting on in November will not be an additional 50% over the 25. It will be up to 50%. So it would double the the the amount that is then not available to our special districts. And my hope point about this is that the special districts and even the the college and school districts are those are for local needs. And so when we decide as a community whether it's one section of the county or the full county,

2:53:06when we decide that we have a need that really should be funded like a fire district or a conservation district, then we decide as voters to to basically put that that those mill levies in for ourselves saying this is a service that we need to fund. So those are instituted through a vote and they can be removed with a vote. You know with the exception of the schools, everything that our property taxes, the additional mills beyond schools, it can be removed. So the question is why would we say, well, I'm sitting in Sheridan and I don't think we need to do this when what we're really making

2:54:07decisions about are things that are happening in Nihabarra County where they don't have any other, you know, really revenue capabilities outside of residential. They don't have the depth of the the breadth of funding availability that say Campbell County County has because of the extractive industries. So I think it's Campbell, Converse and Carbon, I think are the two or three plus Teton that really have additional resources and even Teton, that's from the residential, but that's because the billionaires who don't pay any other taxes would get the break. So my point is that when we decide that we have a need locally, fire district, for example, the fire hall for my district, I live out in the country, is about, well, less than three miles away from me. And so I need that fire district,

2:55:17they don't have any other funding capability other than the property taxes I pay, which I get that people don't like paying them, but I'm going to raise the BS flag on saying that it's rent on your own property. Again, we have some of the lowest tax rates and some of the lowest property tax rates in the country and every single state has property taxes of some kind. Almost all of California have it as ad valorum. So it's based on the value of your home with the idea that the people who have a higher value home have a greater, if not need, than capability of covering that burden for our community. So these whole conversations are just troubling to me. If you really

2:56:17don't want to pay the additional mills where you live, then start the action to vote those out. And if they aren't voted out, then shut up. Like, just shut up. And if you don't like the fact that our constitution requires us to fund public schools, then start that. It requires a constitutional amendment. Well, good luck because I think almost everybody who's been around for any period of time likes our schools. So, you know, I just, the narrow-mindedness of it, the lack of any kind of realistic replacement of the residential property taxes is just puzzling to me. And I would encourage people to think about their neighbor. You don't pay that much in property taxes.

2:57:22You don't pay anywhere near what the services are that you receive. So that whole, so that was the week before last. And it was about, we have a, a need in our own community. And we as a community decide we're going to pay for it. Because that's kind of the wilding way. It's a very also conservative way. You know, we, if we have a need for service, we expect ourselves to pay for it. And then as good neighbors, there's an expectation that we will help others as well. And Gail, tell us a government closest to the people, which I think most of us agree is how we want to operate. We don't want big brother high in the sky. We don't want a statewide solution that hits counties differently. It hits different communities differently. But I think a lot of people headed to the polls in

2:58:23November are going to grab at the shiny bobble. They're going to just see property tax relief. Oh, yeah, I want to pay less property tax, rather than thoughtfully work their way through. What, what, what will that mean? Me personally, and I, I pose this to Rod, you know, I think something needs to be done because we saw what COVID did to our real estate market. It just, things got ridiculous. And suddenly you had unrealized gains on your property. You're like, wait a minute, I don't get this. My property tripled in, in, in a valuation. But how does that help me? It hurts me. I would love to see a lock in rather than have somebody assess your property. And everybody in Teton County, those are appealed all the time. They're like, I don't like that assessment. Lock you in at the purchase price. If that's what the property traded for, you know, like that. I mean, if that's what the property traded for, that's what you pay in property tax

2:59:25until it is sold again. You don't like that. California is the only state that's done that. It was a disaster for them. And it continues to be a disaster for them. Why is that? It had an impact on housing availability because people wouldn't move because if you moved, you had to buy a new place and you buy more. There is an inequity in there that is, is, is stunning. So when I grew up, there were three houses right next to each other that were exactly the same. Everything was the same, except for the exterior, one had siding, one had suckle, whatever. Yeah. The, if those three exact houses sold at different times, even though we get exactly the same services, exactly the same services, every owner would be paying a different property tax that's completely independent of the

3:00:25services. I also have a, and by the way, a lot of those people that came in were people that held onto their houses in California sold it for a thousand times the value and then wanted to avoid capital gains tax. So they came and they bought four hundred thousand dollar homes for eight hundred thousand dollars. So I agree that there's things that we need to do. The disaster that was, that was what they have in California, they actually tried to do that in, in Idaho. Same thing. They finally had to give it up because it just couldn't be done. And they went back to add the alarm. So I'm with you on, on tamping down the increases, I would like to see what happens with the, the lawsuit about the four percent tap. Because the other thing that people forget is that they talk about the increases

3:01:26in, in values of their home, but they haven't spoken about the increases in providing those services that our, our property taxes pay for. So while some areas really had it, bad. I mean, Sheridan, Sheridan Cody and are the two outside of Teton that got at the worst on people coming in and just dumping a lot of money on the houses that they, that they paid for. But it's not unrealized gains. I love that term when people put it out there. Unrealized gains only, only applies to stocks. It does not apply to your home. So the whole, so it's just a funny thing to me every time I hear it, it's like, you know, your, your home, it may be an investment, but it's not stocks. And so an unrealized gain is something you can sell and take from or you can sell part of it. You can't

3:02:30sell part of your home. Yeah, but I mean, if you bought a house for $200,000 and then the assessor comes along and says, everybody wants your house. It's worth two million. How does that help you until you sell it? You, you forced to sell it because property taxes are now assessing you on the two million worth yet. And it, but remember that you're only paying for your house seven and a half percent of that amount. So you're not paying, you're paying the difference in the seven and a half percent. But more importantly, everybody agrees that something needs to, to, to, to, to, to deal with that. Never in our history. And we had that kind of real estate boom in Wyoming. So that four percent year over year cap, which would cover things like inflation, the other things that we have in place, like, you know, if you've been in the place for 25 years,

3:03:31you know, we've got these differing things that have been put into place. How about we let those see how those work out and then look to see who needs some relief that we haven't taken care of. So instead of a broad brush against everybody and treats every county as if they were exactly the same, treats everything that says how about we put into, we, we let it go, figure out are there other people, other homeowners that need that relief? I'm 100% for that. But we haven't even taken time. We keep moving it. We keep changing it. Don't have any time to see what the effect is. And so I, I'm with you. Let's, let's take a look. But let's do it on an individual basis that doesn't put all of the burden on Cheyenne instead of local. Because I want to remind people, he who pays the piper calls the two.

3:04:34So if we, if we take everything off of local, we've seated all of that to Cheyenne. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I only get to vote for two out of 93 legislators. I get to vote for all five of my county commissioners, all seven of my school district trustees, my assessor, those are the people that I get to vote for, not two out of 93. Yeah. Good point, Gail. Well, I think we can all agree on, let's keep it local. We love, let's keep politics local. Let's keep our money local. Let's do all that local. I think we can also agree on, you know, when we call 911, we want the fire department to show up, man. And we want to pay our teachers that we know all this. And what you say is what a lot of lawmakers are saying is we just put in this 25% relief two years ago. Let's see the results. Let's

3:05:35learn what happened before we pile on and do more stuff. Good points. Gail Simmons. Gail, you have a great Tuesday. Thanks. Cowboys, St. Daly show coming up our final guest for the day right after this ready set make a difference. Seroptimus of Cody invites you to their 18th annual 5K 10K chiptimes walk run Saturday, October 3rd at the Cody Recreation Center run or walk to support the Laney Cole Memorial Women's Cancer Fund providing vital assistance to park County women battling cancer. Registration starts at 8 30 a.m. with the kids race at nine and the five and 10K at 9 30 register at run signup.com or sunlight sports in downtown Cody. Seroptimus of Cody making a difference one step at a time. You're listening to the Cowboys State Daily Radio Network. Okay, of course we saved the best for last. Jake Thomas is here. Jake and Jake show. That's

3:06:41what it ought to be. Jake and Jake. Jake and Jake. I got like five million people in the Zimmer room. I don't know who they are. So let me I'm going to knock them all out of here. All we want is Jake Thomas. Okay, there you are. We're going to talk about the Cowboys State Daily Story, stories. Actually a couple of them. This one from Andrew Rossi. First talk about the Genius Invention, packed outdoors and the Wag bag. What's that all about? Yeah, so packed outdoors is a Colorado based business. We've been operating for about six years and we make products that make it easier and more sustainable to do your business in the woods. So that's everything from bearing your ways to packing it out and just generally staying clean in the backcountry. And the product that your your latest story is about is our sort of the industry

3:07:42term is called a Wag bag, but it's a double bag disposable system for hauling your waste out and sensitive or ultra high use ecosystems in the backcountry. I can't say I'm ready to go there in Wyoming, but I do know I go a lot to Southern Utah. And that is sensitive like that is a place where digging a cat hole or doing your business out there. That's not good for the environment. I mean, it's never good for the environment, the water table, whatever, but really sensitive stuff when you're in desert climate, right? That's exactly right. So I mean, you kind of named one of the big four areas where packing out is kind of an important practice. The first is air in deserts. There's just not enough water and microbial activity to break down waste. But the other three are alpine environments. So anywhere above treeline, which obviously is is common in Wyoming and Colorado. The third is when you can't get 200 feet from waterways. So that would be like on a canyon,

3:08:47rafting or boating type trip. And the last one and really the big one is places that just have so much visitor use such a high concentration of use that nature can't keep up anyway. So examples of that would be national parks or just those spots that people just flock to in groves. So those four places are where, you know, I believe no trace and companies like cars generally recommend that you should be prepared to pack it out. Yeah. And thankfully, for a service or other, you know, public land managers, they recognize where areas are high volume, high traffic. And they try to build portability. They try to build something, you know, some kind of facility. But I get it. If a lot of people are pounding on the trail, you don't want to leave, you don't want to leave any business. I didn't even think about the river runners, man, because you don't, you can't get off the river some places in a canyon. You got cliff walls.

3:09:48I mean, that's it. And when nature calls, what are you going to do? Yeah, good point. So how does the the wag bag? I saw a YouTube, I saw a video with some young, young lady showing how to work it. But it reminds me, it has some like chemically stuff in it, similar to what I can get from my, you know, if I bring a little portapoddy deal when I go camping, it has something that breaks down. What is it? Yeah. So wag is actually an acronym for like waste alleviating gel. And so what we use in our product, we call it poop powder. And basically, it's a little packet that when you dump it inside the inner bag that you go into, it dehydrates the waste, it dries it all out, which gets rid of odor and also helps to get rid of the bacteria. And then you tie up that inner bag, you clean yourself up, you put all the trash in there, you tie up that inner bag, and then you put it in a secure outer bag. So it's nice and safe. So you can't smell anything super durable,

3:10:50and you pack it out with you. Yeah. And this bag seems appears to be from watching the video like substantial. It's not like real thin, thin, thin, flimsy, like some doggy do bags. There is, it's pretty substantial. Comes with a handy wipe TP and even matches to, you know, no, not matches. It comes with everything you need, right? The whole shot. That's exactly right. They're super small and compact and they come a really bold, clear instructions on the front, you know, or folks who are using them for their first time and are maybe not familiar with them. But yeah, you're carrying hazardous material. So we need to make them like nice and durable and secure. And ideally, people come away from the experience saying, ah, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I can, I can be ready to do that in the future. So Jake, I want to talk about the feedback you've heard both on using this and this other, this study that was done those polls, very interesting. That's the whole reason for the Andrew

3:11:52Rossi story. But one last thing, I'm, I'm worried about, I see dog users here in Jackson Hole. And the biggest problem is you have good intentions. You clean up after your dog, but then you set the bag along the side of the trail for the comeback and you sort of forget about it. I'm going to rate these bags. They're going to be out everywhere. You're, you're teaming up perfectly. We got a product coming out this next spring that's designed to deal with this exact issue for, for years. People are like, that's great. Love the human waste products. But what can you guys do about dog poop? And we're like, okay, we've been thinking about it for a long time. And so we're working on some new solutions because yeah, you don't want to carry that doggy background. I think a lot of people put it down intending to pick it back up on their way back and then maybe forget or, or who knows. But that's a big resource issue for, for whoever's managing our trails to have to deal with. Obviously it, it degrades the experience when you're seeing that along the trail for, for other people. So yeah, our whole thing is trying to come up with tools for folks that make good practice just easier for them to follow.

3:12:58Jake Thomas is with us co-founder of Pact Outdoors, P-A-C-T Colorado company that makes products for the bathroom, a backcountry bathroom business. So I love you, you want the extra mile, so to speak. You did, did you commission this study? Did you do it yourself? I don't know. But you, you want to a place where these bags are available? You wanted to understand would people use them? Would they pay to use them if these bags were not free at the trailhead? And you, you want to even farther, would, you know, would they pay to use backcountry? But what did you find out from users? Yeah, sure. So our whole business is built on this belief that if you give folks better tools, they will use them. And if there's mishandled waste or teepee out there, it's not because people are bad or they don't care. It's because they're naive and they were unprepared. So the whole business is built on that idea. But we know that land managers and folks who manage our public lands,

3:13:59they really make decisions based on peer-reviewed academic research. So in addition to selling products at outdoor retailers and things like that, we do a lot of research to figure out, how do we get folks to follow best practice? So we partnered generally in these studies, especially when we're trying to formalize them with with universities. In this case, we did the study with Penn State and packed funded it using some grant funds that we got from the state of Colorado here. And what we did was we went to one of Colorado's, it's actually Colorado's tallest 14,000 foot peaks. We have 58-14ers in Colorado. And they're unique environments for a couple of reasons. One, they're outpined. So when you get above treeline, you can't dig a cowhole and bury your waste. They're super sensitive ecosystems. But peaks like these receive tens of thousands of visitors in a span of about three months or so. And so they get ultra high use in this concentrated period of time. A lot of those folks are from out of state and they maybe don't understand the practices that are prevailing in the local area. And what we did was we built a kiosk. We kind of retrofitted this bearproof trash can,

3:15:03and we built a kiosk and set it up at the trailhead. And we gave out free wag bags there. And then we had a researcher, Jack Edelsen from Penn State, positioned at the trailhead surveying users as they came back down for about 19 days in July and August during peak season. And the whole thing was, if you build it, will they use it? And the answer was overwhelmingly yes. But what we found was a lot of interesting things. So this trailhead has a vault toilet. But what we found was that 70% of people who were hiking Mount Albert during that period went to the bathroom beyond the reach of trailhead facility. So it's great to have a vault toilet at the trail. It's a big expense and requires a lot of management. But it's actually not addressing the needs of the majority of users. So what we found was 11% of those 15,000 people whooped while they were hiking. That's about 1,650 bathroom trips with 70% of them occurring on the mountain, not at the trailhead. So there's a whole lot of defecation going on during these hikes. So that's the usage stuff. But we found was that

3:16:05when we put the kiosk up 30% of people, 30% of people used it and took a packout kit and then packed out their waste. And so overwhelmingly, people were down to use this method. It was used in roughly equal proportion to the trailhead toilet and digging a cowhole or bearing your waste. But all those people who went one person in the study came to the trailhead with their own wagon bag. Everybody else relied on one from the kiosk. And so what we found was people are a lot of people are going on the trails beyond the reach of facilities. They're down to use this method. They're going to take it out with them if they do. And so it really validated this as a strategy that could complement the installation of toilets or bringing in order potty or things that the forest service and other land managers are currently doing. Well, I think a lot of us could benefit from the real data analytics. That's surprising. 70% of the, you know, yeah, the opportunity to everybody go before we

3:17:06get in the station wagon, everybody go before you hit the trail. And then there's something about walking it out that man probably urges you. Yeah. Set that, that's pretty high numbers. Interesting. And you're right. It does seem the feedback told you that people want to do the right thing. They will pay to do the right thing. They're just in many times they're, they're unprepared. Don't don't have what they need. And they're under informed. Certainly, if you're not from the west, you just don't understand this. An E. coli, man, it is a real deal in Jackson, hall where we do have a high volume of backcountry users. We want to blame it a lot on the dogs under these local trails. It's us too. And it gets into the creek. And it's not good. It's not good for the environment at all. It's not good to be the one who comes across your fellow dog do or human do. So you got it. We are, we're based in a rural gateway community in Ganesan

3:18:08and Crestabute, huge influxes of people during various peak seasons, hunting's big right now. In the summer, it's all the hiking and stuff like that. And we have, otherwise, what you would think were pristine waterways at 10,000 feet in elevation and above. They're completely contaminated. We've E. coli. And it's all connected to the volume of people who are using those areas. Interesting. Jake Thomas co-founder at Pact find out more on the Cowboys Day daily. You read the story, packed outdoors or go right to their website. And I don't know. Can we order? Can we, what can we do? We can definitely learn more and maybe order some way back. Absolutely packed outdoors.com. You can learn a ton about. Yeah. Best practices as well as check out our products there. Jake, thanks for being on. Much appreciated. Thanks for having me, Jake. You bet. Cowboys stay daily show. I don't know what happened to my Zoom room management. But I had like four people wanting to get into one segment. Oh well.

3:19:15Yeah, that'll wrap it up for us on a Tuesday fun show. Look at all this stuff we got done. Matthew Levoil was here right off the bat. He's a first time author and I am so excited to order this book and read it. Sounds really cool. A political thriller that starts very first chapter, which is available to read for free on Amazon before you buy the book is a senator looking to have a meetup with a minor, a young lady. And it turns out to be a sting, a cop's thing. Oh, what a way to start a book. Dennis Sun was here talking about the beef industry. We're still eating beef. It's the best way to get protein. But man, can we afford it? Rick Akerman stopped by Bigak. Turn in a football career into a Wyoming guitar strummer. I like that. CC Oliver with a fly fishing report, Julia Ladd told us about how to make your passport renewal process just a

3:20:22little bit easier. And Jake Thomas with packed outdoors fun Tuesday. We'll do it again tomorrow's same time. See you then. Have a great day. Good morning. This is the Cowboy State Daily Morning Show with Jake. The new way Wyoming wakes up.