9-21-26

0:00Well, hey there. It's Monday morning. Cowboys state daily show at Jake September 21. Mark it down. We made it to another week. You and I, we did it. Lance Larusa will be on the show in a moment. He's going to talk for the positive side of flock safety cams. And what good they do, even though they're facing a lot of pushback, a lot of scrutiny. Mike Termott will be here to talk about the midterm elections and how he thinks that may go. By the way, Mike is running for Vice President candidate on the Republican part. I don't know how you run for Vice President. I don't understand that, but Mike hopefully does. We got a market economist John Najarian will be on to talk about the fed rates,

1:04inflation, energy and all things, global market. Sheriff Darrell Stewart stops by. He's sheriff's everything going on in Park County. He's in charge of Cody, Paul and all law enforcement way up there in Franny. Don't get phony and franny or sheriff's stewards coming for you. Philip Kim will be here to talk about the efforts to try to make passport renewals and getting a passport a little bit easier right now. There's like what an eight week wait or more. He's with the US Department of State Bureau of Consular Affairs. Yeah, it would be him who does like passports. Carl Fisher will be here to chat about doing data centers responsibly. Don't just join club. No, get informed. Is what Carl would say Karen Clark will drop in. We'll talk about the farm bill that may or may not get across the finish line in this Senate.

2:08What are the implications? Scott Christianson executive director of the greater Yellowstone coalition will be on to chat about the roadless rule repeal rescinding of the roadless rule act. And he has got not 40 said it's going to be it's going to give us problems in the back country. Mayor Arn Jurgenson mayor of Jackson, Wyoming as we continue our mayor of small towns, although Jackson is pushing city, isn't it? At this point, it's officially a city. It's achieved a population greater than 10,000. But we'll still call it a mayor of small town mayor, Jorgensen will be on to give us all the updates about all things Jackson. He'll also talk about the recent ice activity going on in J town and chancey Williams. We should have led with that the legendary now chancey Williams. He's one of Wyoming's own. I mean, he's I don't want to call him Chris Ladoub to point out, but he's very much followed the career path.

3:16Of Chris Ladoub has just a, you know, Wyoming born cowboy who's turned a singing life singing about rodeo and cowboying and singing about all the stuff he knows is parlay that into national acclaim. And he just keeps checking boxes off on his career advancement. So that should be exciting. Chancey Williams, man. Well, that's a that's a lot of guests. That's a big stuff. And we better get to it. Plus the news over the weekend. Zach Sontag and survived about of drinking in Boulder, Wyoming. But what a way to start it. That's a great story. Drinking Wyoming the S.O.B. who showed up four days late to the Boulder bar.

4:20Day with a forecast today. Sunny for most of us. Cooler comfortable temps feeling like a little fall in the air today. Sunny 68 and Casper same in lander. Same in Evanston. You might have some fog in the morning in Rock Springs, but you'll get sunny 69 when it's all said and done. Morning fog for Pinedale was 64 the high sunshine will burn through an afternoon and get you 70 by the afternoon. Sunny and Du Bois 62 areas of fog in the morning for Jackson eventually sunny 69. Thermopolis fog in the morning. 72 for a high sunshine. Sunny and 70 in Cody. Gradually becoming sunny and Buffalo with high 66 foggy start to the day and share it in sunny afternoon 71. Gillette Gradually getting to sunshine 74 foggy start to the day in Newcastle.

5:25It's a great day to be able to get a chance of rain in the morning. But mostly sunny in the afternoon 62. Torington sunny 71 Buffalo or Douglas. Sunny and 68. Sunshine abundant in Cheyenne with highs in the upper 60s. Laramie 66 and sunny Rollins. Kind of the same boats. Upper 60s with sunshine. A little bit of clouds may still be sticking around in the morning that we got to burn off fog. It was kind of a soggy weekend. I don't know where you were, what it was like, but a lot of rain over the weekend in Western Wyoming. But let's look at the rain in the morning. What's up guys?

6:25The rain is coming up. The snow is good stuff. And the early influences, the very initial influences of the super-el-Nino you probably keep hearing about, reading about. Yeah. It's already affecting weather. And hopefully brings us the most monstrous snowy winter we've ever seen. like a crazy scare I sold my snow machine so my recreating in winter is reduced but still I wouldn't mind to just let it rip. I'll just get out the snow shovel and enjoy what will what it will bring to spring and summer let winter rip. Wheatwater County school dress district had to go back in back in time to pull somebody into the job that he used to have interim superintendent for the school district after

7:28they told Joseph Libby he could go ahead and take a break. Paul Groove is now sitting in the seat that he wants to occupy Paul said I'll be honest with you I never thought I'd be here again I'll add again he's back for now until they find somebody to write the ship in sweet water county school district. Campers trash in this campsite in bridger t-ton I know exactly where this is and it's a popular spot for high schoolers to go and have those keg parties and it's just popular spot because it's right off a decent forest road you know as far as forest roads go this one is it's not heavily traveled but it's not exactly remote and I see why I mean if you build roads here's a here's a here's a perfect example of why

8:31you want to limit the amount of roads in a forest and I'm not saying I do I get frustrated when I see forest service gate a road and say road closed I mean I get as frustrated all is you folks tooling around on your four wheeler or your truck and you're looking for a remote spot to go camping you get to this forest service road it's on your map and you get there and it's got a lock gate why and now we repeal the roadless rule act we're going to go build new roads we don't even use the ones we got I don't know I don't I don't I don't know I would love to be able to get into places that I couldn't previously but I don't for me that's a selfish pursuit I understand that's all about me me I want to get into that 30 miles into the back country where

9:35previously I would have had to get a horse or just a leg it out man wouldn't that be great to be able to tow a pop up camper in there now on a new road once we repeal the roadless rule act well selfishly yeah be great to see that country I'll never see but I understand what happens when you build roads you build it they will come and they will be irresponsible with their fire they'll junk it up with their littering roads invite people and people are the the worst thing for back country man I mean we we should be able to use our public land I understand that use responsibly ask yourself if you're going to use it responsibly ask yourself if you trust your fellow who is calling me at this hour the morning I'm going to hang up on him yeah ask yourself

10:37if you trust your fellow man to use back country roads responsibly I might be a whole different deal they did talk about making roads they went through great effort to bring back a road that was previously closed because it's in the middle of nowhere there were rocks slides it is like the wickedest road of all time the Morrison Jeep trail Andrew Rossi wrote the story about the Morrison Jeep trail to the it's to the bear tooth plateau northwest to Cody they had to use explosives to blast that thing open to get it back into you so that's going the extra mile to reopen road I like that Renee James been hanging out in some real Lottie doll places man she got flat out bougie at the million to four hundred million dollar whole back clubs ultra

11:42luxe t-ton village homes I was just there Saturday I'm I bet Renee was there at the same time real swank place out at t-ton village rooms go for all nine grand a night and then the club condo man you got to see the photos of this place just when you thought Jackson couldn't get any bougie here you got to see this place it is off the scale oh all right we got a t- oh I know I forgot to do one thing I got forgot to get a recording going of the whole show that's bad Jake bad bad bad it's it's a Monday I'm still trying to figure out how to get back I'm the swing of working at least working this job okay now I'm recording let's

12:42get our first break in here cuz who's ever calling me is probably eager to get on and people don't see my face in the zoom room they go to straight up panic I'll get there I'm coming be right back after this looking for a career with purpose and a company that invests in you how to river energy corporation is a consumer owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team at powder river energy a good life begins with a good company build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan for the future visit pre-core dot c o o p and click join the team today how to river energy corporation powering more than electricity powering people this is the cowboy state daily radio network cowboy state daily so getting off to a sluggish Monday morning start but I think I can get

13:47myself in gear lamps loruso is here and we're gonna talk about those surveillance cameras up everywhere used to be in my day smile you're on candid camera now it's nobody smiling in fact we're taking up arms and shooting them right off the lamppost there is a real pushback on being surveil being under the flag camera deal we all know that Lancel's a formal former law enforcement officer founder of the blue line lawyer institute and author of a book when cops kill he's been featured on fox news ABC CNN all the high powered media outlets slant great to have you on you're gonna talk about some success stories um which I mean there have been stories in the news about how a surveillance camera which is a powerful tool for law enforcement has come in crucial

14:49in tracking down a criminal getting a runaway back home and whatever so we know it works for come we know cops like it because what a tool in the toolbox but it's just it runs in against this whole idea that we don't want to be surveil well guess what you're probably surveilled anyway everybody's got a ring thing on their doorbell you know you're surveilling your own property and I don't know we'll get into it Lance thanks for being on absolutely so um yeah we're where do you want to dig in um uh I think uh I I have questions I want to know you know how you would answer the note you know different notions about uh surveillance camera data um and by the way let's start with not just singling out of flock this isn't all flock isn't the only but they are probably the industry leader in the surveillance camera thing and that could be uh an an an issue

15:53being you know the the the having a monopoly on a database of us that is uh you know kind of weird but anyway um where do you want to start you want to talk about places where you've seen it work well I you know first and foremost thanks for having me because it's such a it's such an important topic but it's such an important topic to go 360 on so first and foremost the first type of cameras their ALPR's automatic license plate readers 1979 that's how long these have been around really this is not new technology that somebody decided to unveil in their basement while they're eating meatloaf and their mom's cheetos this has been around for almost 50 years and the use of that technology people have probably been driving by them for 40 years and didn't even notice it in the US they started out in the UK the UK obviously doesn't have a fourth amendment it's a very different

16:54legislative scheme it's a very different privacy issue but to give you an idea you asked about some successes we know about the disabled adult the the dementia patient who gets in the car and drives and when I was a street cop controlling i75 three o'clock in the morning when we heard that grandpa had gotten ahold of a car it's heartbreaking we would sit everybody would sit on the interstate hoping to find the needle in the haystack now we can have that person back in a matter of hours but it's not just those bigger cases you hear about it's also common people that are seeing a very good return from it so again years ago we would take a report of some landscape guy who employs two people and his trailer's gone in the morning you know we would ask him for the serial numbers on the blowers and the the you know the circular bowler and he laughed at us we'd never see it again it was dumb luck and we knew that and it was heartbreaking now while we're taking the report we're getting a hit on that and giving it back to him 30 minutes later after we take pictures

17:59so this really is a game changer and yes every technology needs to have guardrails that's not a that's not a fourth amendment thing only it's a being part of the public thing it's a law enforcement profession thing and law enforcement wants to have the guardrails you have to separate one really big thing we're seeing in the middle of all of this argument about ALPR's flock whoever you want to say is a large and people are falling into it a very large anti-cop sentiment and you mentioned it you talked about being surveilled this surveils you more than any license plate reader you can stay out of a car and be surveilled on your your smartphone it is just amazing to me how people have chosen which battle they're going to fight interesting you know in maybe it's because

19:00we're in Wyoming or maybe maybe I lead a more shielded life than I thought lands but I don't feel an anti-law enforcement thing when it comes to cameras being everywhere I think it's just this general George Orwell 1984 feeling the governments you know got to be in up in our business all the time and looking at everything but there's certainly let's talk about the database acts I'm fascinated by how the information from these what are what are they LP A LPR automatic license plate readers automatic license plates because I don't want to keep giving flock look at all I don't want to keep it horrible they've been getting beaten up like an old barn deal is going to stop flak's beginning all the flak but it's probably also boosting their bottom line at some point I'm giving them free advertising and a bunch of you know stuff they yeah it's not just flock but they're

20:05well let's talk about that there is this notion that if it's one company if flock has 120,000 cameras in their system which I think they do in the Washington area one committee meeting whatever the numbers are if there are an industry leader in this there are databases the best on the biggest and pretty soon they're kind of like an NGO they're kind of like a government entity where they there is big as the I alright they got all this info on you so maybe some pushback is the fact that it's one company that's kind of surveilling us I don't know yeah and I'll say and I'll give you a I'll give you a part of that first of all I love Wyoming I hunt out in Montana I'm licensed in Montana nice Arkansas Georgian Tennessee and and there's one thing I can say that I love about the people in Montana Wyoming Arkansas they just want to be left alone mm-hmm that is what separates and that's why I got like to go visit they want to be left alone so people see it as an intrusion even if it never ever affects their daily life but let's talk for a

21:12quick second about rural areas because I police in a rural area it's not rural anymore when I first started policing if you wanted to get me mad just put me out in the cow pastures it's a 23 year old cop I was bored out of my mind chasing cows that had gotten out of pastures so I understand that concept but those are really good areas for bad guys to escape and we've seen it there's two really good places for bad guys I mean really really bad folks to escape one is rural areas because there's not a lot of traffic enforcement and then number two are densely populated areas so this gets into that database management and I want to cut to the heart of this real quickly people have been upset about the sharing of the information I know of situations personally know of situations where a wanted murderer from LA got to Atlanta and decided to hide and people would say well why would somebody in LA want to search an ALPR database in Metro Atlanta that's why that person who's

22:20trying to drive from Michigan to the south to the southern border of the US and trying to go through some bigger more rural states that may be your only shot to catch them so a lot of it has to do with the database management people are concerned of how long it's on there and you mentioned one private company having access to this information we saw this dispute and this is why I say I love the and I'm saying people in Wyoming I'm seeing some of the national informal media as I call them in my book when cops kill the the blogs the the websites the the social media they are anti-cop and I'll tell you kind of where this is coming from in the 2024 election I know that seems like 400 years ago remember that it was just like two years ago remember the complaint was that social media had a strangle hold on information even to a point where they were censoring people and not

23:21letting you post your views because they were deciding what should be promulgated now I've got about 5,000 friends on Facebook it's not because I'm popular I certainly have a face for radio got about 6,500 contacts on LinkedIn I can put a story out and it will not hit all of my friends people that have said they want to hear from me there is an algorithm that is used to keep that from happening so that data is your data much more intrusive than you drove by in your pickup truck by a flat a flat camera and you happen to be there that day in time that data is far more valuable to marketers and to companies than what we're seeing on the ALPRs and that's where this dichotomy is coming where the people in law enforcement are saying please don't take this tool we're policing each other we're putting people putting cops in jail for God's sakes if they abuse the system we're firing them we're taking their certifications I don't know what else we could do

24:26lance la Russes with us we're talking about surveillance cameras alprs and where you stand on them there's reasons to hate on them there's reasons to believe that they they've been the the crucial tool to solve a terrible crime or at least be a key and getting you know a lost person home whatever we seen it in Wyoming all right so lance this notion that it's weird that one company would be the leader because then they would have all the stuff they'd be like the meta the the Facebook of of all alpr database texas governor Greg Abbott has paused state oh sorry before before we do that it's a Republican senator Josh Hawley who lost launched a congressional investigation on a flock in particular wondering if they don't have like a pretty two robust AI surveillance network and then we see states fighting back deflock

25:30ACLU leading the charge uh texas governor Greg Abbott paused funding for the cameras Pennsylvania California considering outright bands of surveillance cameras like this um one more thing before we go into reasons why you would distrust it and then I want you to give a reason why that might be a myth or why what what what might be the other side of the conversation I am interested in to know how fast these databases can be accessed I mean I personally like that I know when you you have to give a get a warrant you need to wake a judge up and and and do all this paper where I want to know you know if you're responding to something as as law enforcement some guy with a license plate you know got away and he's running down the highway north south way and we're not sure he may be in another states and now you got to call that state highway to put you know um how fast can you get a database and say give me a hint on this guy. All right so I'm going to tell you just

26:34how fast and it's staggering what a great tool it is. So yeah initial officer goes to a domestic dispute woman sitting there with a swollen face broken nose she says my boyfriend did this what kind of cars he driving he's driving a red Ford pickup truck he's got a big sticker on the back there's body damage to the bottom left corner and I think it's a Wyoming tech the backup officer getting there on the scene can put it on a hot list and that vehicle can start being tracked within minutes. I love that. Let's go back before this technology was available okay that guy is going to be found before this technology was available that suspect we'd go take a warrant for him and then we would look at this woman and say lock your doors go state your sister's house and door sit with your kids one eye open and hold a gun until we can find them. Yeah that's how fast it is. She continues to be at risk maybe your kids do maybe her parents do and maybe the suspect does maybe he feels the

27:41growing heat in the next few days and it takes his own life so I get it you're absolutely right now want to say something else too because you hit the nail on the head and I don't know if you've been in law enforcement but as a civilian you hit the nail on the head every minute that suspect is that large they grow more and more dangerous and more and more desperate so the risk is not the officer finding them the risk is the officer in another community stopping him because you ran a stop sign not knowing that that suspect knows he's wanted for aggravated assault and domestic violence and God knows what else and that when he gets caught he's going to jail for a long time and that's how cops get shot approaching a traffic stop that they never expected anything. Yeah that I can see that good point Lance let me give me a reasons why a lot of us are maybe anti of flock or whatever the surveillance company is let's say database access when I talk

28:45when I touched on before I didn't mean why is LAPD able to access you know Georgia's a database I mean like who can look at this we have seen already I think anecdotally I don't know I haven't snopes it but we've seen you like you know just a beat cop accessing a database to keep track of his ex wife or girlfriend's movements who should be the gatekeeper of this database how was it designed and can there be police misuse of it of course there can be misuse of any technology and this is what we're seeing happening so Georgia Wyoming as far as I can see doesn't have a comprehensive law yet but Georgia has had one for a long time it's OCGA 35122 if anybody wants to read it wow and it was pretty comprehensive it said that officers need to have training agencies need to have policies and they need to have a law enforcement reason pretty broad but if you think about it those are some pretty good guardrails you have to have a law enforcement

29:46reason to put something on a hot less or run attack so when you're seeing people running their ex spouse running their you know they're the person that they saw in traffic that's wrong and they're being disciplined for it the the other side comes if you call the police department and you say look my 16 year old daughter just got a driver's license she's late coming home from a party I'm scared to death she's not answering her phone I know no 16 year old ever didn't answer their phone oh no but they pick up the phone and they go look I need help I'm a concerned parent there's no case number to put in but that cop is probably going to help you and say your daughter's fine she should be home in a few minutes now let's flip the switch now you're a single parent who's a cop same scenario are you gonna run that tag through flock so that's why these audits the training the policies and also the audits all what keep it keep the guardrails on it and then

30:47the other question that people have and you hit the hit the nail and head with two of them number one can the agency that owns the camera sell the data or use it for a commercial purpose I'll get back to that one second and then the second thing is how long do they maintain the data some places have said 21 days 30 some have said 90 and some don't have a restriction but this is what cracks me up about some of the naysayers and why I know there's something else to it they will drive in their own apartment complex they will go to the car wash that miraculously recognizes they they have a membership they will drive into a parking deck and it opens for them because it knows them they will go through a toll booth and they don't want to stop and put you know 50 cents in the hopper they want to just drive through where do they think that magic is coming from nobody's waving a wand they're all ALPRs and those companies are selling that data more often than not. Yeah there are cameras pointed at us almost everywhere I think you know we if we stop and

31:52thought about it we would realize that as far as the ALPRs and and this pushback I mean if it solved one crime if it if factored into one you know getting somebody back home or saving something I'll take a couple three abuses of it me personally but we all have to decide what that map is for us. Lance any any error rates I know in Los Angeles police police department reviewed their ALPRs they found some false positives that could create a situation where you think you got a bad guy pulled over and that could escalate in a hurry it can there be mistakes. Yeah there can be mistakes and it's from a couple of different reasons number one you know anytime you take a picture and which is the exact reason my wife doesn't want me to take pictures of people who ask for help at weddings because I am horrible at it but the camera angle the the weather all of those things can affect it and then we have these geniuses and I mean that in the absolute

32:57opposite sense who decide to keep their tag dirty so when they're speeding they can't get caught I mean it's just amazing yeah also people have covers over their tags sometimes tags just get dirty they get bent especially out there in farm country I mean if you can find a flat tag on a farmer's truck I'd be shocked right I mean they're always they're always damaged so that's part of what you have happened the other question is this and and let me tell you I totally agree that people should be suspicious and question technology we have a fourth amendment we have the best constitutional rights and constitution anywhere in the world it is healthy to question it the question comes when you get a hit on a tag what does that give you and that's one of them my newt and this is like drilling deep what does that allow the officer to do does it allow them to surveil the car does it allow them to stop the car does it allow them to have articulable suspicion to say that that's

34:00enough for a traffic stop or do they follow the car and wait for independent probable cause and let me get back for a quick second on this that's not new the National Crime Information Center the people that have all the tags and your driver's license number and your social security number all those ways that they run you and find out that you're the good person and your brother who's a problem is not driving the car even though he's used your name 14 times that's how we separate that even those databases for the past 50 years have had ways to say observe the person stop the person or the person's wanted so those gradations are basically working their way out through this system Lance one last thing and then we got a scoot um you know these readers I'm here you know as tech advances the cameras get better and better and better and they've gone from just reading a license like I think or certainly the potential is there to discover many more things I mean the camera is

35:03good as the camera is when we get into 4k and whatnot they can tell how many people are in the vehicle what they're wearing even if they get out of the vehicle so this is beyond just your license plate being read this is a lot more info that these cameras can grab yeah and that's one of the one of the advantages to it for law enforcement is we don't need the tag anymore often we don't have it people are excited people who are lay witnesses they're like green pickup truck there's body damage on the back and it's got an Atlanta Falcon sticker in the back which that may be enough reason that's a crime right there Lance but I will tell you that the being being able to grab those descriptors as opposed to a tag is one of the reasons why that technology is getting more valuable when you add AI doing algorithms in here and as I tell people AI is as dumb as it will ever be yesterday it just needs to be managed and between who can use the data so far as whether it's commercially

36:04available and then number two how long it's retained there are some really good guard rails we can put in points well it's certainly the growing issue of the day where do you stand on these surveillance cameras these ALPRs are you in the deflock crowd or you see them as a useful tool for law enforcement Lance Larusso joins us Lance have a great Monday and thanks for having smile you're on a camera somewhere you're on a camera right now thanks man we got to take a break okay are you ready to put your skills to work Wyoming Sugar Company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers lab crew and more there's a place for you on the Wyoming Sugar team competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers be part of a great team a great facility and a season of opportunity apply today at Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers that's Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers Wyoming sugar company the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network

37:09can you hear me okay and we're getting back to it Cowboy State Daily show with Jake and we bring on Mike to my former White House Economist a Libertarian Party Vice Presidential nominee Republican Liberty Caucus member Mike keep in mind that I am like the least political dude ever so I mean you got to really like talk to me like I'm five when it comes to Mike also co-hosts a podcast Liberty lens so he knows his podcast you could teach me a thing about podcast thing about politics everything we're gonna talk about now that you know dude you could teach us something in Virginia about having a great license plate you're making me jealous there I as a libertarian I hate license plates but you do have the world's greatest plate behind you over your shoulder oh yeah and you know mine uh I should get mine mine mine is even better it's six eight that's the number when I go to

38:15check in hotels they're like right down your license is 68 they're like where's the rest of it that's it um I know more than you need you should have just one digit right or one letter to that's all we got here we're closed for business here in Wyoming yeah um great to be with you great to be in the Cowboy State yeah and by the way he's also we'll talk about a new book broken how American politics is driving civil unrest oh my goodness look out your window we see that every day first before we get into what we think may drive voters to the pole may may influence voters when they're making their selections here in next month or two months uh I want to talk about your personal ambitions right how do you run for vice president I thought the president decides who's going to be his right hand man I don't get that that has been the way it has been up for you know the past 160 years or something it's ridiculous I think it's a dopey way to do

39:17business I think that people are interested in a more democratic process a more legitimate process to be honest we have this idea that the Republican Party should be letting its national delegates select the vice presidential nominee themselves at the national convention the national convention in 2028 is going to be in Houston and it collects 2,000 very smart people who ought to be weighing in rather than just putting all of this responsibility on just one person whoever the presidential nominee is asking them to select a running mate that's the process that's gone on for a long long time and Jake I'm not going to name names okay but we all have examples in our head of where this hasn't gone very well you don't always get the 18 when you just wait for the old man to wake up one Saturday and say this is who it's going to be so we believe that the national delegates should be the ones choosing I know so often it it becomes like a popularity contest like uh and this is the person

40:23that you know having a forbid of something should happen to the president here's next in line it's an important position um okay I was wondering because I thought maybe I'm like this upends everything I thought I knew exactly that's what you don't know it's just that it's a dopey way to do business and Jake you know what's really funny is that this doesn't require a rule change or a law change or anything like that the delegates vote no it's just that they skip the process of thinking first and then they move directly to the vote you know the party says everyone in favor of and you know no matter who how dumb an idea it is you know Barack Obama says it's going to be Joe Biden so everyone says oh Joe Biden yes yes yes and no one even thinks about it twice so yeah Republican party we do it too and I'm just advocating that our delegates think first then vote to step process well dumb down group think in politics what doesn't sound like a good ever happened

41:26okay my good point good point all right so before we get into the nitty gritty of what we think will drive voters in this midterm election I also want to talk about this 30,000 foot view this overarching view that you know if you were pro third party if you were someone who wanted to see a third party become disenfranchised with both the red and blue idiots and all this going on all the noise it seems like the best time to start talking about whether it's libertarian whatever it is because you're watching the GOP kind of implode you got mega and you got president Trump and his top down leadership while you got more you know centrist of Republicans old school them Democrats are the same you got a progressive left movement that looks darn near like socialism sometimes calls itself that and then more moderate you know centrist that are like we don't know those guys so both parties are fracturing could couldn't a third party slip right in here

42:32it could and I appreciated your reference to the Democratic party I don't know what's going on with those guys that's a whole another we're gonna have to conversation offer in different months I don't know what's going on with them inside the Republican party I think that there's a real opportunity just for this exact reason I think that our Republican party is going to be moving back toward the basics I think that in the long run and by that I mean over two years six years it may take a while but we are going to move back toward supporting free markets free trade we're going to get back to the constitution and hearing to the constitution right rather than challenging it I think we're going to get back to fiscal conservatism and not spending so much money and driving up tax rates driving up inflation I also think that we're going to get back to where we were a long long time ago kids ask your parents he asked your grandparents we're going to get back to less war we're going to get back to less foreign entanglement that's going to take a while I really

43:36like the way President Trump campaigned a number of years ago on the idea of less foreign entanglement that's the direction our the Republican party is going to go I think you're right people are frustrated with both of the two major parties I think they should be by the way I don't think that's a mistake I think they should be frustrated but in that frustration and in that fracturing in that competition in that debate that's where the opportunity is for each of these parties to go in a more productive direction in the future Mike Dermott is with us let's talk about this Marquette poll that shows the important issues supposedly that are going to drive us to the polls and drive our decisions I don't disagree with any of these or the ranking I think these are very true no matter where you pledge allegiance party wise the first and foremost 37% of us in the Marquette poll show that inflation and the cost of living are super important issues

44:41I don't know what party stands for dealing with inflation but the idea is the flip you know whatever we're in now it isn't working so we're going to go the other way and if the Democrats just promise to handle the price of groceries my goodness they can make great inroads I agree with you I think the Democratic party is missing a bet by just complaining about President Trump per se all the time I know the President Trump does things that you know maybe it frustrates us once in a while drives you crazy but that's not a platform right right to your point inflation has been too high it was out of control for many years one might argue it's under control now but it's way too high 3% pushing 4% it should be zero even the Federal Reserve targets 2% and they can't get it down to there so inflation ultimately comes from the government spending too much money that's the root cause at its very base and we need each of our parties competing for who can spend less

45:41not who can spend more yeah a big part of that is entitlements we are going to have to get some entitlement reform in the future a big part of that is war we're going to have to resolve the war in Iran a big part of that is energy we need a better energy policy that allows all of the above as we say all of the above types of energy to be supported I do believe that Wyoming is going to lead the way in demonstrating that nuclear is the future your new power plant out camera right yeah is going to demonstrate that this can be done hopefully done repeatedly done efficiently the first one is the hard one right the the Bill Gates led project is a huge undertaking but if we can prove that that works that it brings old-fashioned coal industry employees back into the workforce if it can plug into existing energy infrastructure if it can support data centers without them causing

46:48our prices to go up right which is when everyone's concerned what should be concerned about by the way if it can do these things Wyoming will demonstrate to the entire nation and indeed the rest of the world how to do this right yeah I appreciate the cowboy state shout out I know I mean we golly we do energy from top to bottom legacy coal natural gas oil we do all that but we're also got an eye for the future which could be this this new way to do a power plant new way to do nuclear yeah good point let's talk about that the war that wasn't issue with with many voters is an issue the war between us and Iran I ran hates kind of everybody that's not you know Israel is thrown in there Russian Ukraine going at it so a president who stumped on and he did president Trump said I'm not going to get us in the foreign conflict I'm not going to get him then he did and you can see why previous presidents didn't mess with Iran because that gets messy in a hurry

47:54people want that ward they don't want the US involved uh in so many diverse places and I think it's beyond what it's the pain it's caused at the pump I think it's deeper than that what do you think I think it is I think that there's a philosophical rift I think the American public recognizes that we've had politicians for a long long time and uh you're you're obviously a young man but I remember Richard Nixon okay and the public was unhappy with what Richard Nixon would do sometimes in our face and sometimes behind our back the American public is sick and tired of politicians who don't listen who get us into wars because of a variety of reasons much of it is just power and control sometimes they think it's a good idea look Iran is one of those situations that has been a problem for decades right and I get the idea that this may have been unavoidable in the long run I get that I really do Iran exports violence and supports terrorism all over the world it is an intransions

49:00and regime that's very difficult to deal with I understand that in the long run it may have been very difficult to avoid war eventually but I don't like the way that we got into this without Congress without support of the American people without allies without an exit strategy without the right assets and without a way of bringing this to a close in an expeditious fashion without having the straight-of-war moves close mine goodness yeah now we can't get oil through and it's driving up our prices this was obviously something we were not sufficiently prepared for and the American public just isn't having a tear point I think it is more important than just prices I think people are frustrated that that decisions are being made that you wouldn't make your listeners your viewers would not make these types of decisions and that's what's really frustrating yet I mean similar to Vietnam it feels like something we're getting into with no end game no plan did we not foresee the straight-of-war you know it's just frustrating to think the

50:04greatest nation in the world is you know not able to deal with Iran I don't know I just don't like the method and one last thing and we're never going to solve this one so don't spend a lot of time on it Mike is is healthcare any healthcare issues access to healthcare the cost of insurance that is meaningful for an aging population and I don't know what the I don't know what governments role is even in that Obama tried it I don't know where an answer is here no it's a very difficult proposition we got into this because of the tax code we we invited insurance into this industry in a fashion that was way too large and once you get insurance involved and have decisions being made by people who are not bearing the cost that's when cost just absolutely takes off and now the idea from the democrats is to bring in more insurance right have the government come in and provide insurance for everyone for free and there'll be no pressure to keep costs down whatsoever

51:11that is a recipe for disaster the way to handle this is a very simple number of rules we need to stop the tax subsidy for insurance to put pressure on on insurance prices and we need to require providers to do so on just one price and to disclose the price you can't have this situation where it's one price for insurance companies and if you don't have insurance you pay more yeah that is not only counter intuitive it should be illegal you should have a one-price market I don't know if any of your listeners and viewers gone to a doctor lately without insurance you're going to hospital without insurance prices triple if you don't have insurance rather than if you do oh my goodness not only is that on ethical but sustainable as economic proposition yeah nothing about the whole insurance and healthcare and yeah we haven't even got into the $40 trillion debt and why that

52:16isn't very good Mike we got to have you back on I think you can fix a lot of the country's problems especially if we make you VP let's just you and me together Jake I look forward to it all right Mike Tamaat was with us we got to go news we're over time here all right we're back hour two of the Cowboys State Daily Show on a Monday and I'm running about two minutes behind if you were checking which is kind of average for a Monday I just cannot catch up Dr. Jay John Jarian is with us he's gonna we're gonna talk about the glory days of the Chicago Bears who you know on the Jarian was a linebacker for the Bears before he turned to another kind of

53:19contact sport trading on the Chicago board options exchange where you probably got to be good at of evading attack all those guys that trade on the floor like it might be nice to have some training and you know face mask stuff like that um he well yeah it was uh definitely the same as being on the field just without the helmet right right without the protective uh where yeah Nijari it might be more of a household name but it was uh you know some guy named Mike Singletary beat him out for that linebacker job whoever he is um yeah so let's chat about um I don't know the fed rate fed just hike rates trying to deal with inflation we'll talk about the whole global market um this guy can speak on many different things professional investor money manager media analysts today that's what he delves in John um and also I want to I want to talk about your

54:25algorithms and stuff that you've done trading applications people would be fascinated by that our listeners um where let's see where should we start um how about them I I still can't understand how the Wall Street influences main street so incredibly like if if there's news today the president Trump says we got to deal with this with Iran the straighter her moves gonna be open those oil tankers will be flowing bam the gas prices go down it's like 10 set well maybe go down uh two cents tomorrow if the news is the worse if if the news is oh man uh one of our tankers got hit by a bomb drone activity has increased there's no end in sight to the Iran conflict everybody panic sound Wall Street and prices go up like 20 cents a gallon the market does everything yeah it's like an EKG for the economy um and uh that's because we're we're looking at a market where

55:32you've got um basically 64 percent of Americans own the market in one way or another whether it's through their 401k's um there if if their employer shares some of the wealth with them like that or um you know just on their own they just decide I'm gonna put a little money in and boy I hear this name all the time Tesla or I hear this name all the time Apple and I'm gonna throw some money at it and so forth and um the market is astonishingly good even as the war rages as you said um we've seen the uh Dow so far this year is up I think 13% the Nasdaq which is more tech heavy is up 17% so um the census just said Jake that we're seeing the smallest poverty level in history in America right now the smallest it's ever been uh so in other words the poverty rate and how much

56:37that has hurt people is at its lowest level for Hispanics for blacks for children for you know the population in general meanwhile we're the richest we've ever been now a lot of news outlets not yours but a lot of news outlets try to sell fear all day long and say how bad things are and so forth they won't tell you I will but they won't tell you that under Obama we had 325 days above a hundred dollars a barrel for crude oil and uh what was gas then what was diesel then well they were all like don't look there at the man behind the curtain um don't look there meanwhile it's like under 30 days it's one tenth as many days under Trump as it's been under Obama and under Biden but I mean I don't need to sell it hard I'm just telling you that uh it is a great measure of how the uh consumer is really doing rather than some weird um poll where they say oh you know the Michigan sentiment

57:43poll is negative really but people are going out eating like crazy and they're discretionary spending at various places is still very very high I understand people are cutting back Jake on driving whenever they can because it's more expensive I get that people aren't stupid but on the other hand there are so many things that are better for Americans right now than they've ever been John this is counterintuitive to me I don't even have follow-up questions I was going to take our discussion in another way you're I like I I had this impression the markets are out of touch with real things Wall Street doesn't know Main Street what we're hearing is people can't afford the price of eggs and that you know but it could be a lot of media selling fear as you say because how can the market keep going up the Dow and the Nasdaq up and up and up while they're while I'm hearing and reading that we've not it's never been worse you know the price the prices are going up

58:46and we're we don't make as much at our job we don't even have a job anymore interesting that there may not be as much of a disconnect as I think the EKG the barometer could be pretty correct yeah it actually is pretty correct I mean I think if you want to measure how the economy is really doing if some of the brightest and where you're putting your money not just you know somebody answering a poll I bet most of your listeners wouldn't sit there waiting if all the sudden a phone something rings on your phone and you don't recognize it do you answer it folks probably not but apparently the people that do are more than willing to say how terrible everything is but where are they going out and spending their money are they going out to Chipotle are they going out to McDonald's are they going out to Lone Star steak out whatever um the answer is you know you could follow the money and that's what I do all the time you talked about algorithms yeah that's what our algorithms do they look at where money is being invested just like for instance

59:52Jake last week the Fed people were saying well it might be a coin toss as to whether they're going to move interest rates up know it wasn't um for the last month it's it was close to 90% chance that the Fed was going to move how do I know that the Chicago mercantil exchange tracks that through where people are putting their money in treasuries which of course are debt that the US issues to pay its debt at which right now is you know stupid high if you wanted to point to something that's really bad it's our debt it's $40 trillion yes interest on that debt is one trillion a year just the interest and so and now treasury bonds show nobody nobody trust uh nobody wants to take out alone you know they're like the US is already too deep nobody what yeah that's an issue 40 trillion in debt definitely an issue it's a big number if you had in clings uh through your uh compute through your

1:00:53algorithms through your uh whatever you built in through the Chicago mercantil um if you had in clings that the Fed's we're gonna uh inch rates up that you were the only one that knew everybody I talked to said this new Fed chair he doesn't disclose his hand he hasn't he told anybody he was real quiet and surely uh they did nudge up now it that's interesting you knew ahead of time boy when they got here for the Jackson Hole big symposium we were all the media and the reporters are trying to get that out of them nothing and then we do find that the federal reserve did uh push rates up what uh three a quarter I mean a three quarter is the quarter of a percent is that just uh kind of the government saying it or the the federal reserve saying yeah we know inflation's kind of high this will this will help or is that nothing is that a token what is it well you're right it's a little bit of a token um but it also got them all on the same page again Jake so for instance

1:02:00at the last meeting it was a split decision to leave rates unchanged and I think it was unchanged for the right reasons which were uh until the fever breaks with uh the straight of hormones which you spoke of um until we get more oil flowing through there um we are not going to see inflation come down dramatically it has come down I mean it was over nine percent under the former president under this president he's got it back down to 3.4 I think percent right now still above two which is his target most fed chairman's target has been two percent for decades and we're above that so I get it but I don't think moving up interest rates is something that will cause crude oil prices to drop I just don't get that yeah um but I think he needed to get the team if you will back going in the same direction so the other fed governors the three or four that were voting against him last time are now unified they're all saying okay we get it you're serious about this

1:03:07and we're right there with you um they might move once more but you know for all the folks you know in your listening range from Wyoming to Colorado to Montana to Idaho to all those folks when they talk about interest rates going up yeah it's not a good thing I agree it's something they do to curb inflation but it's also not something that most of them are going to feel because if they have an adjustable rate mortgage they're going to feel it if they have let's say $3,000 in credit card debt and they're like oh my gosh you know the interest rate just went up a quarter of a percent no it didn't not for you at city bank chase all of these credit card issuers there's a reason if you look close at your statement that it's based in South Dakota even though the company might be based in New York City or wherever the place where they run the credit cards

1:04:08through is South Dakota because they let you charge the most for credit card debt which is 28% so it doesn't move at all it can't because 28% is the top it can't move higher than that by law so when people hear somebody on TV say well interest rates went up if you've got an adjustable rate mortgage you're right that's going to hurt if you borrowed money from the bank for a new tractor rather than getting it from caterpillar or John Deere or whatever um yeah it's going to hurt but if you you know finance through Chevy 0% financing for five years or whoever it might be I'm not doing an ad for Chevy but I've seen these kind of offers out there Jake you're nothing changed you won't know the change yeah it's not and so that's why the market keeps marching higher because there's so little impact to most people again unless you have an adjustable rate mortgage

1:05:08um the things that adjust will adjust when the rates go up and they're very sticky when the rates go down but they will adjust at higher as soon as they can but your credit cards nope if you have 0% financing with Ford or Mitsubishi or Hyundai whoever it is nothing changed about that Jake let me ask you something John you sort of touched on it straight out her moves the US Iran conflict going on right now is it possible to oversell that to to overstate how important that is to the economy to perhaps midterm elections coming up in November how crucial is it for President Trump or whoever to make a solution here because crude oil as a commodity is a huge player in the global market is it not it a lot of things fall out behind it it's a big thing it is a big thing and you nailed it because everything that you might get not just from China but

1:06:13from Vietnam or India or Indonesia Pakistan wherever anything we might get whether it's cotton or shirts that are you know sold through everybody from Lulu lemon and Nike to Timo and all the rest it's got to get on either a ship or a plane and their fuel cost just went up right because when we were at 60 bucks a barrel for crude oil West Texas intermediate that's great when we're at 96 where we are now it's not great it's obviously a lot more money so they pass on the higher cost of fuel oil for ships jet fuel for planes and then of course it comes down to the trucks that get it those last couple hundred miles from a distribution center that might be you know a whole bunch of these semis that haul it all the way to the store and then the consumers got to go out and get it from the store in many cases and so all of those are crude oil related increases even polar fleece

1:07:20vests like you probably wear in the wintertime Jake all of that stuff that's crude oil that's an oil product there's so much that's made from crude oil that when it goes up yeah everything costs more but again I don't really get the idea that moving interest rates up will stop any of that until we have the straight of hormones which accounts for I don't know 30% at least of global energy that passes through there I think we're going to see prices higher until that breaks and if they can you know either negotiate a piece or force a piece one or the other that'll probably take two to three months before it gets back to normal it will it'll drop quick but it'll drop to like 78 and sit there for a very long time because everybody has to refill their strategic petroleum reserves we're not the only one with things like these salt caves that we dump all this crude oil into

1:08:22for when times are tough we can draw it out that's something that will take months to refill and it goes alongside of the rest of the demand so in other words we're not going to see 75 or 65 in crude oil for probably three to six months John DeGarian just not enough time for you we have got to get you back and pick your brain for instance can you tell our listeners now real quick too late to get into and video should have saw that year the go man take no not too late but you don't need to chase it and there are so many other stocks that are part of that AI build out that I focus on other than just the $200 plus Nvidia stock tips and a sense of the whole global economy we didn't even get to energy John you got to come back thank you love to thank you Jake Cowboy state daily show we got to get to a weather forecast we got to get some more gas and again my two

1:09:25minutes behind is now become like I'm running five minutes behind John we're going to knock you out of the zoom room we're going to go straight to Don day somehow we got to get a commercial break in here yeah oh uh uh let's see Darryl I gotta um yeah I gotta move Darryl out for a minute and let's go to Don days too much clicking going on for me Don what's happening oh you can hear uh uh well that's I think I got all the right things going on maybe you've been somebody's been goofing around with your computer oh there goes Don day well this would be a good time to take that ready set make a difference syromptomus of Cody invites you to their 18th annual 5k 10k chip time walk run Saturday October 3rd at the Cody Recreation Center run or walk to support the

1:10:28Laney Cole Memorial Women's Cancer Fund providing vital assistance to park County women battling cancer registration starts at 8 30 a.m. with the kids race at 9 and the 5 and 10k at 9 30 register at run signup.com or sunlight sports in downtown Cody syromptomus of Cody making a difference one step at a time this is the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network oh now I've done it Don days computer crashed so that's the reason we'll not have a forecast although I gave you the forecast earlier if ever we were going to have no Don day today would be a great day because it's real easy weather foggy start to the day sun will prevail by afternoon burn all that out of the way and we'll get to about upper 60s with sun and that is for just about

1:11:30everybody across the Cowboys State that weather forecast applies universally to all away on me up there in park County we'll see how the weather is doing if we can get Sheriff steward back on he was ready to go accidentally knocked him off the zoom I that's on me we're trying to get him back because once I knock somebody out of zoom zoom thinks they're a bad actor and then soon won't let them back in and that's that's the nightmare I'm in right now help Bonnie help um yeah one of our show producers has got to get Sheriff back on there's I don't know what else I can do Sheriff Daryl steward

1:12:34is booked on the show he's a Sheriff of Park County which would include Cody Powell um Matizzi franny Curlin the ghost town I mean it's one of those counties really interesting eat it a butt's Montana and yellow stone so that that throws a few curve balls in there there's there's a there's a sheriff all right we'll get him back Sheriff that was my fault I had so many people in the zoom room and I clicked to get rid of someone in it was accident I didn't want to get rid of you I messed up okay so I was just explaining Sheriff Park County has I would think certain challenges in that you it's a it's a weird county you you you you you you a but Montana so you got multi-state agencies you you butt up against

1:13:40yellow stones and now you got the feds and then you've got two major towns that are so different from each other Cody heavily influenced by visitation and tourist and Powell is kind of you know go panthers and then franny what do you do about franny you you you got a police half that down and the other half is um it there's some challenges man right sure um definitely a job yeah so yeah talk about what it means multi-agency every time I talk to uh Sheriff's in particular or state uh highway patrol we talk about multi-agents not just a sheriff's office lives in a vacuum you got to work with Cody PD Powell PD you got to work with maybe Montana if you got something going on cross border and certainly Yellowstone they're out there's multi-agency stuff going on

1:14:40all the time that we're nobody you know regular people aren't aware of absolutely we get along very well with that um out troll Cody PD Powell PD came and fish um like say we work with other states like we said uh we have areas that we have to cross in the wild and just to get to put it in the wild uh like we go to city so yeah it's it's insured but like I said we get along very well and uh it's been working great so what about uh let's talk about funding of course uh it's never enough money to go around to buy handcuffs new cruisers computer whatever you got to buy um we seen property tax relief really dwindle that revenue stream I don't know how hard park county is it each county is hit you know two different degrees what has that meant for your department uh budgeting happens like July to July how's the budget balancing yeah

1:15:44here and what we could uh my commissioners here have been very working with us they had your standing for us a lot of force that um we've been tightened down a bit so far we're not hurt that's good news hey how uh how give a shout out to uh all your deputies man that the July 4th 250th I know and just Cody alone you were busting that this seems I mean there had to be all hands on deck ain't nobody gonna take a vacation during the 4th of July that last summer yes or it was great I say we had a lot of stuff going on at the major luckily uh the majority of things this summer by the way say motorcycle crashes uh just a lot of people a lot of people doing the schools that yeah um well um the tourist influx certainly hits Cody Powell um yeah I love like what one on a given day

1:16:51how do you cover a pretty big um county that's so diverse I mean two two big towns where you can sort of set up shop but you also got to be able to get over to Matizzi you got to get up to franny uh wherever calls could come in and we're talking about a lot of miles yeah yeah about to get me back I thought getting four hours to run outside the park and so yeah I could go from the long ten-stay line up your park all the way down to TTC um we try to keep that news on both sides of the county over the palli next to the east uh and then over in the cover district as well usually we have two to three so it could be a stretch anything you know I say it you know it's called much shorter than 23 miles half percent of the house operating oh yeah uh how about that stretch that beautiful highway um designated like uh two like great uh great highway for you know you love to drive it from Cody to the to the east gate of Yellowstone that is a great

1:17:58drive beautiful about you know 45 minutes unless you I I'm I might be going a little faster uh sheriff don't tell anybody but that uh my I might do it in 40 minutes but I do notice there is a real lack of cell phone coverage in there and that's a stretch of a lot of people from out of state out you know they this is not locals um I just wonder about response time on that stretch uh that can be heavily driven for people trying to get to the park and uh no you know I don't know if 911 works how fast can you get a a car out there he said it depends on traffic that I think when you're talking about some north or highway between Covey and the park but we've also got that very two highway and some like Grand Blown North which is the cooler um but like he said uh the cell phone coverage you know regular coverage can be four times at that you just get hit up uh we don't work with some some agreements between

1:19:01other agencies trying to get some more time or American credit could cover better yeah and bear tooth I didn't realize you you you have to cover uh bear to that's for all the motorcycle that's a popular motorcycle oh man that's so you've got a bunch up there one of those things that we noticed too was the increase in my things iPhone that crashed attention so somebody will drop all right trying to take pictures if they're going on road and then also we have a crash detection boss family yeah I was gonna ask you how accurate they are when the iPhone thinks you have crashed and they might save your butt um yeah how many times they do it's just because you dropped it yeah I know a time that's that's the case um but again we have to respond like it's the real thing that we all know you know uh another duty of law enforcement to a degree is you know responding to wildfires I remember years past that that forest south of the highway

1:20:07we were talking about from Cody to the Eastgate boy there's been some big fires in there this year we kind of dodged a bullet in park county as far as fires for the most part we did the only year talking about I believe it's uh two years yeah we're right down we did but our job in this gonna be a strategy oh by the back way having the owners that kind of thing you're right because the doctor pulled the shirt uh wait stand by I got somebody trying to call me again we got to stop giving out our studio line man um all right sheriff anything else you want to add how is it sheriff in park county um yeah that's great I got here trying to almost with the people and uh it's a great place to work with we have all the same problems that you have bigger city has these and just small enough yeah I love park county for its diversity I mean the

1:21:09most beautiful forest ever uh you got Cody which I fear is becoming Jackson living in Jackson I'm like Cody slow down man you don't want to grow too fast and then Powell's just so america Powell's just so real Wyoming uh there's so many great things about park county um cool well thank sheriff thanks for being on have a great day stay safe good day appreciate it sir Cowboys state daily show moving along here on a Monday with the phone ringing off the hook um I'm not sure whoever was calling will probably leave a message right coming up we're gonna get with philic Kim we're gonna talk about your passports in particular the discussion may move around a little bit but passports um renewing your passport getting another you know passports can be a hassle and the department the government department in charge of that knows that that's been a hassle can

1:22:17be a hassle so there's changes underway on how to streamline getting a passport or renewing your passport and we'll tell you for you folks in Cody Casper and Buffalo we're telling you about where you can go to take advantage of this new streamline passport then you can report back to us tell us if it's really working Philip Kim on next right after this quick break looking for a career with purpose and a company that invests in you powder river energy corporation is a consumer owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team at powder river energy a good life begins with a good company build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan for the future visit pre-core dot c o o p and click join the team today powder river energy corporation powering more than electricity powering people

1:23:20are you ready to put your skills to work Wyoming sugar company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers lab crew and more there's a place for you on the Wyoming sugar team competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers be part of a great team a great facility and a season of opportunity apply today at Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers that's Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers Wyoming sugar company put your skills to work okay we're back at it here at a Monday cowboy state daily show thanks for being here with us of Philip Kim may not be here now we're hearing we gotta clear we gotta check some

1:24:27security boxes and clear some stuff with his higher ups you know it's government red tape you ask department of state bureau of counselor affairs if long as it takes to say that department that Philip works for is about how long it takes to clear access for him to speak he's got to make sure that he can speak on behalf of his department and we're going to talk about passports and stuff like that but I think he's he's got to receive an additional okay thumbs up from his peoples and we don't have that in place so I think we may have to rebook Philip Kim that was him calling to say he probably won't be able to come on and then the rest of the morning is book

1:25:27solid so we'll have to put Philip maybe on tomorrow Philip if you're listening we'd love to have you on tomorrow or if our show producers can get him back that'd be great other stories in the cowboy state daily and by the way that that chat will be important because I know for me in Jackson the process of just renewing your passport and everybody wants to do it as spring break approaches because you know you're going to some great exotic place out of country and it doesn't occur to you until maybe too late you're looking like oh my goodness my passport expires next week and here's your spring vacation booked and everybody makes a mad rush on the clerks the county's office and where you go to do your passport and the wait time if if it's crunch you know you even

1:26:31expedited passport renewal the wait time can be you know six weeks eight weeks 10 we it it can start climbing up there currently supposedly it takes four to six weeks for routine processing I've seen that take twice that double that when everybody needs their passport renewed at the same time and that that's a problem and it's a problem that Philip Kim and some folks have addressed or noted and are working to address that three events are scheduled in order to change what they're saying at the state bureau of consular affairs which is a component of the state department to change the narrative of the passport office I'm not sure what the narrative is other than in my mind the narrative is it takes too long and it's too cumbersome to get a passport or renew your

1:27:39passport it should be easier um in my mind so maybe that's what they're changing meetings coming up September 23rd 24 25th and Cody Casper and Buffalo to learn more we'll find out about that when we get fill upon also I want to talk about us visas and we've seen some immigrant visas work visas for instance being overstayed we'll talk about that situation in Jackson where the that Turkish woman who entered the country legally through and Atlanta Georgia and then overstayed the visa and was picked up by ice in downtown Jackson kind of on the down low we'll talk to Mayor Arn Jorgensen of Jackson Wyoming a little later about that incident but that be something that Philip Kim's office is also in charge of us visas they screen and educate non immigrant and

1:28:47immigrant visas for foreign nationals traveling in the US and uh uh lastly Philip would be in charge of uh uh providing assistance abroad if you have an emergency if you are a US citizen in another country and you have medical issues you maybe you're arrested and detained um you have any kind of issue it would be the uh consular affairs the Bureau of Consular Affairs that would come to the rescue that would be involved in figuring your situation out uh all those topics uh we will talk about with Philip Kim when we get him on the show also uh stories on the cowboy state daily I still want to talk about we got to get Zach on and I want to find out through Zach what it was like to drink at this boulder bar um so cool it's that so good at these stories uh Ben I mean what

1:29:54what better work can they be for a journalist to be assigned you go to this bar and go drink with the locals really do I have to and get paid for it man Zachary Son Tag you got my dream job dude um he he what a great story he wrote about drinking with the folks down at the boulder bar in sublet county is just south of pinedale um a great experience and he really captures it in his story uh Renee Jean's story of Jansy Williams catch up with the more croft native and his music career paralleling much of kind of the chrysalah do path to start him uh Wyoming born in bread then then he gets into the rodeo career and then he sings about uh rodeo and his life I mean that chrysalah do did it and now Jansy Williams is doing it and both those guys by the way hold the distinction

1:30:59of being the only two gentlemen to have competed at Cheyenne Frontier days in the rodeo rodeo world and then performed on the headliner on the main stage at Cheyenne Frontier days I mean that does not you wouldn't think that would happen one time in a million and it's now happened twice to both chrysalah do and chancey Williams yeah a lot of stories we've got to get to but with Philip not here let's take the opportunity to find out uh what's going on in the world of rodeo Pendleton round up I know wrapped up um yeah let's see what will Rasmussen our friends over at the Western Ag Network going it's the rodeo road show on the Western Ag Network hi everybody I'm will Rasmussen fresh off a weekend glide you're listening today well nine more days to the end of the regular season of professional rodeo and the race is on it's always amazing how tight those

1:31:59races are coming down to the wire we'll talk about the bubble watch on the rodeo road show coming up next stay close saddle up for one of Montana's premier cattle events the Montana Angus to arrives into the high lines at 10th or 22nd through the 24th with three days of outstanding Angus genetics progressive ranchers great cattle and even better people whether you're raising commercial cows or simply passionate about the beef industry you won't want to miss it registration is now open visit ncmtangus.org to see the full schedule and claim your spot today that's ncmtangus.org the race for the PRCA world title kicks off in new town north Dakota four-time world champion Brad Germans and lends his name to the richest of men in brown riding history the world's top bronch riders will be in town October 2nd and 3rd for two days of action you'll witness the world's richest extreme brown riding event Brad Germans and extreme brown riding at four bears casino and lodge October 2nd and 3rd in

1:33:03new town north Dakota get tickets at four bears casino.com watch live on cowboy channel and cowboy plus we talk about the bubble watch and if you watch the cowboy channel in the western sports network all eyes are on that position 12 through 18 right in there and with these big rodeos coming down to the wire the last 10 days of the season anything can not anything can happen but there's a lot of money up for grabs in that 18th person that could get up to number you know 13 14 15 top 15 in the world at the end of the regular season goes to the national finals rodeo and yes this time of year people rent jets to get them from mandand or Dakota to Hamilton Oregon which happened over the weekend and we want that is that losing money yes but the carrot dangling in front of them is the 20 million dollars you can compete for at the national finals rodeo and the prestige of the big Vegas rodeo so the bubble watches on and normally and

1:34:11we'll go over this at the road show after October 1st but it's usually only a couple hundred dollars separating 15 from 16 that's fourth place at a small town rodeo so the race is on the anticipation is high and the drama continues to build as we near the end of September on the rodeo road show I'm Will Rasmussen on the western ag network how boys state daily morning show with Jake now back to the show all right let's stay on that theme of sports rodeo is a sport high school football just see the games over the weekend here about the finals over the weekend share it in Bronx boy they continue that win streak but it wasn't easy they trailed in that game for I think a long part of that game I mean it was pretty iffy for shared

1:35:15and they pulled it out but it wasn't easy the Bronx scored the game winning touchdown with just over two minutes left in regulations so they played from behind almost the whole game everybody had their breath held fingers crossed if you're a shared in Bronx van 24 21 the final there they beat Kelly was but it was not easy this shared in team that's now pushed its winning streak to 59 in a row of it one of the longest unbeaten high school football streaks in all of the country I I fear it's if it were to come to an end it's going to be this season and it's going to be this week watch out as natrona county and shared in go at it this Friday I oh boy I mean I love a good streak and I love what shared in Bronx have done but this is not one of their more explosive offensive

1:36:17teams good defense but I don't know if they have enough for the second rank natrona county mustangs um natrona county by the way got past central shayan 28 13 the final there I think this Friday's game is certainly game of the week in the for a natrona county shared that's the number one number two team in the for a of course shared in chasing the record setting whatever record I think they already broke the longest win streak in the state of Wyoming of 59 in a row does it end there this Friday shiannees had no problems with south 69 nothing and that one uh Laramie just got by Campbell county in a bit of a scare Laramie had been putting up gross amounts of points I mean their offense is insane but Campbell county uh kept them in check Laramie ran for 247 yards forced

1:37:22four turnovers and had four sacks also in the Laramie defense was the star of the game this past Friday not the offense as they upset number five ranked Campbell county 15 13 the final there elsewhere in the for a thunder basin over rock springs 26 20 poor rock springs is probably the best on the best win list team there is uh they've been they just had a tough tough schedule and they have been plucky with every game they play but they just have not been able to pull out a w yet in the three a Jackson founded Rawlands 58 13 watch out for this Jackson Bronx team man are they putting up offense number third ranked team in the two in the uh three a forever it's been in the three a forever it's been star valian Cody up there at one and two and then the rest of the rest

1:38:23this year uh the rest of the rest have gotten very competitive Jackson and Evanston look uh surprisingly to me strong Evanston blank warland 24 nothing watch out for those red devils Cody uh also pitched a shout out against riverton dominant performance uh between the Bronx and the wolverines for Cody uh 38 nothing the final the number two reg Cody team everybody just waits for that showdown star vali Cody to see who's really who star vali 56 nothing over lander their quarterback hilton had six touchdown passes for those one to ariksen what a night for star vali buffalo beat uh a buffalo got beat by pal 14 six and a good game I said that game would be the game of the week in the three a for just how competitive and how close it would likely be the

1:39:28panthers and the bison very evenly matched I mean that's a coin toss between those two teams Powell was victorious 14 six in the final there and you know everybody's talking about the Wyoming cowboys and that loss uh to who I mean is is this even a college um university of michigan's central I don't even know who they are who are these guys uh central michigan yeah uh another fcs team the these are teams if the cowboys can't put these teams away central michigan and it was UNC northern colorado the week before I mean these are two nups they these are games where if you expect to be competitive in the mountain west conference you have got to be beating fcs teams you you gotta be you gotta be having your way with teams like this and the cowboys were never in it

1:40:3524 10 the final there Wyoming offense awful um defense couldn't tackle anybody my goodness central michigan just ran all over us it was not good not good Ida uh it's hard to find even any kind of hopeful light in that game at least with cowboy losses and we all bleed bleed brown and gold never ever gonna give up I love our cowboys but man I wonder how we're gonna compete in conference games when we can't even beat these lesser fcs teams um it's it is not a good sign and I can't find to them in this past defeat I can't find too many hopeful things if you look on social media look on the facebook posts where the game popped in lot of people calling for coach saw vells job lot of people fire the coach fire the coach um

1:41:40lot of stuff like that I don't know if coach saw vells job is in danger but man we did not like what we saw in that football game cowboys just had no answer for who central michigan it's um yeah hopefully we can rebound none of these games have counted in the conference yeah we'll get the conference play here pretty quick but a disappointing season thus far for the cowboys not looking good we got a halfway through a monday show we got to take a break for news we'll be back with much more don't go far cowboys stay daily show hour three we're gonna get with Carl Fisher that's Carl there in your

1:42:46view screen video I I am like clicking all the wrong buttons today I'm having a real tech challenge kind of morning I'm not trying it's monday I'm not trying not to screw anything up in this segment we'll see how far I get Carl Fisher executive tractor the Wyoming out out to our council Wyoming's oldest independent conservation organization we're gonna chat about get ready data centers um I read your column uh in the cowboy state daily your your input and I gotta say I don't know where I am on this whole data center thing one day I hear this argument and I'm like yeah I don't like these things and then I hear a positive argument I'm like you know Wyoming does this we can do this we've done it before we can do it right let's build the guard rails and you know not just put our head in the sea I'm like club no I'm back and forth

1:43:50all the time and I read your thing and now I'm I'm in the camp off let's make smart choices smart decisions let's let's think about it without just saying I don't like them I read something and now I'm club no um very interesting so where do you want to start uh Carl um yeah well I appreciate your comments and I I'm glad that maybe we've uh we've brought you over to where the outdoor council is Jake because I think well how what we're trying to do with this conversation is not just say yes or no you we know there's impacts it's a question of how how do we do this and every community might not be appropriate in the state of Wyoming there's not a one size fits all approach to these things um but we can definitely with some with some of those guard rails which really we see is codified in policy across the state and we're hungry for the conversation for leaders uh whether it's our federal leaders or state leaders and local leaders to come together and help

1:44:54communities evaluate these things address the the the actual threats that are impacting the quality of life of people across the state because there will be an impact from these these uh data centers uh but I think we can cite them smartly um and and create jobs and actually get some things done that communities want to see done and and part of what we're trying to do with this conversation is talk about community benefit agreements uh with communities as well how what would you want if a data center were cited in your community and how might these companies be able these are some of these companies are driving the stock market uh across the country what can they do uh to help communities get some projects done from from trail of projects to water quality and habitat protection um there there's a whole host of things that Wyoming outdoor council would certainly

1:45:55interested in seeing but there are other things that communities want to let's have these conversations um I like a lot of people I'd love to have all the benefits of data centers without any of the negative well we can sort of get there but we we got to try you can't just say no we'll talk about the 50-year-old industrial citing act the permanent mineral trust fund uh sit you know proven things that while Wyoming has done on the passage showed uh we weren't afraid of chain we weren't afraid of new things we just figured out how to do it right why can't we do that again Carl maybe because it's become such a political issue when you see the whole you know data center thing you know show up in president Trump saying if you're anti data center you're you know they maybe puts you in in whatever box and then this race to AI we got to beat China there it's become so politically charged that doesn't help that doesn't help anything and I think you know

1:47:00we've we've done two of our events across the state kind of listening to communities and talking to folks I think one of the hardest things with this conversation too is we're talking about data centers people really want to talk about AI and have these conversations be a referendum on AI and you know I think our our federal government our uh congressional leaders in the state of Wyoming really need to grab the reins there because that's a federal conversation well we're laser-like focused on though is is how do we do this as as you hear in so many different spaces the Wyoming way right yeah I mean got linking data centers into this whole topic which is another third rail issue of artificial intelligence and the robots killing us that's not fair data centers exist now and data centers are there primarily for what we're doing right now what you're doing all those photos you took over the weekend that's going up in a cloud the clouds not theoretical space it's a brick and mortar warehouse somewhere and why not here where we can get the benefits of them

1:48:06at least financially what about data centers as a neighbor um certainly a concern for for you for you know any agency and for the neighbor um you know making sure data centers make good neighbors making them follow certain rules and putting them where we want them zoning I think that that is spot on Jake it's uh where where are these things appropriate we need to make sure that the the hum you know we hear about noise pollution we hear about light pollution uh there's obviously an impact you know if you want dark dark skies in your community maybe the data center isn't the best thing in that area of your community right if you don't have the water for the the cooling and I know that the conversation around water has evolved just in the last six to eight months right where with these closed loop systems but we got to make sure that their sideboards on all of these things um if there is water available but I think the other thing with these data centers

1:49:09that we're excited to talk about is not every community can do it all right so how how do you define your community how do you what what are your community needs and is a data center does does it fit um and you're right there there are data centers uh across the state even already particularly in Albany County we see fairing number of data centers the next generation of data centers are these hyper scale data centers though and they are they are much much larger uh much larger impact uh and and can also have these strains on the grid too I think that's uh uh the energy costs for people uh and and and the strains that these data centers can cost from an energy perspective like needs to talked about and we need policies that help protect people while still preserving that opportunity uh for for for jobs uh and for for for economic development across the state. Carl Fisher is with us uh executive director of the Wyoming outdoor council we're talking data centers

1:50:14his latest uh guest piece go read the guest column uh entitled now is your chance to define responsible data center development um yeah it's I think what drove you to sit down in penne piece or type writer now I guess it's all keyboard is is uh you say I've spent my career leading conservative NGOs in the mountain west you've seen a lot of issues come and go uh but you say I can tell you the tone of this conversation is different and it's heading to a breaking point um what it it certainly is boiling I mean you can't go a week without saying the issue somewhere or another in the headlines of news uh it's big. It's it's it's it's probably one of the most talked about uh issues that that walk is engaged in right now I mean we work we work on wildlife issues public lands issues right but people are talking about data centers and it's people that don't typically um see

1:51:19the impacts from big industrial projects they're new in these communities there's a national conversation and there's a local conversation um you know we talk to legislators they're concerned about it and I think a lot of people agree that we need to do something but everybody's kind of at a loss for what that thing is and I'm concerned that if um we don't have these policies in place soon um it's just gonna roll out the red carpet for these companies to maybe take advantage of communities across the state of Wyoming and nobody wants to see that happen. Yeah well we'll either get what we don't want if we don't build you know the path there or we won't get anything and it will be missed opportunities so you know what club do you want to join it feels very much like the discussions we're having about flock cameras where you got to join one group or the other it's a national issue it's it's a new concept coming to communities near you and Wyoming and we are

1:52:23taking sides very galvanizing where they're for against um regarding data centers though let's think it out let's be smart about it talk a talk Carl about uh the track record of Wyoming being able to handle new things and not just saying no but building the rules uh the industrial siding act was a great one permanent mineral trust fund Wyoming's been here and we did it and we did it right we we've been here but the issue is different it was a little different flavor now we need to modernize some of these tools to some of the modernize challenges that we're confronting um as a state so the industrial siding act doesn't really contemplate these uh data centers there are some loopholes in the industrial siding act where people that have industrial parks uh data center developers can sidestep the industrial siding act and and cite these things in industrial parks where they don't get to have the the compensation and the evaluation from state agencies about some

1:53:25of these impacts so it's there's a lack of disclosure we want to see increased transparency and finally these companies shouldn't be getting a free ride they shouldn't they they we should figure out a taxing structure and invest some of that that revenue just like we did with the permanent permanent trust uh mineral trust fund to make sure that we're not only taking care of Wyoming nights today but but tomorrow and setting ourselves up well financially for the future as we as we level up to these hyper scale data centers that are going to make the old ones look like a rinky dink warehouse is yes there are concerns man our water which uh every day data centers aside water is a here is is gold man it is it is so crucial to the state uh we're concerned about electricity consumption these projects claim to live behind uh you know the the meter off the grid but do they truly you know stay out of our water do they truly not use electrons that we need just operate the refrigerator

1:54:32yeah a lot of questions so let's get him answered before we make decisions really good uh column from Karl Fisher go read that so Wyoming outdoor council what uh what's the official take on data centers just what we read in this guest column yeah yeah I think we really want to have a conversation I mean we're concerned about these things uh we're we're excited about them it feels a little skits a frenetic at times because there's some opportunity but there's a lot of impacts so let's have the conversation we have a petition going on our website we encourage people to go to the Wyoming outdoor council uh dot org website uh look up our petition we also have a white paper on data centers to help people understand some of the impacts that they should be thinking about as we work on these data centers um and really at the end of the day it's about empowering local governments and it's about requiring some transparency and disclosure of impacts from these companies uh but let's let's get some guardrails around the conversation uh set a nice table with some

1:55:37policy makers and some communities to to place those guardrails uh and and go forward it can be a skits a frenetic topic it can be very polarizing and it can be very hypocritical you know if you're anti data center and yet you know you you explain your views on the Facebook post well guess what you know where that's going thanks Carl thank you Jake appreciate it yeah thanks uh for coming on Carl Fisher Cabo you stay daily let's get a quick break in here we're gonna go to a Karen Clark she'll be on and we'll talk about the big beautiful farm bill that may or may not get through the senate does not look good but we'll see are you ready to put your skills to work Wyoming sugar company is hiring for campaign season from mechanics and welders to general laborers lab crew and more there's a place for you on the Wyoming sugar team competitive wages started $17.69 an hour for laborers be part of a great team a great facility and a

1:56:42season of opportunity apply today at Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers that's Wyoming sugar dot com slash careers Wyoming sugar company put your skills to work this is the Cowboy State Daily Radio Network hey y'all let's see what Karen Clark is up to Cowboys State Daily let's get her in the zoom room Karen's the executive vice president of the Wyoming farm bureau federation we're gonna talk about the farm bill to 0.0 or if you uh it's actually the agrit cultural act of 2026 where is it at stuck in the senate good luck um but what what does that mean for us Wyoming farmers out here Karen before we dig into the politics of it uh explain to our listeners once again great to have you back what it is but Wyoming farm bureau federation who are you what do you do great good

1:57:48morning it's great to be with you this morning uh we the Wyoming farm reo federation is a agricultural nonprofit organization that advocates for farmers and ranchers here across the state so our mission is to strengthen Wyoming agriculture and enhance Wyoming communities all right we're all for ag we love farmers we love the ranchers um so the uh the tell us where for uh first has have you do you know what's in the agricultural act of farm uh build 2.0 this replaces the old farm bill which is set to expire end of this month I believe um so it's just a whole lot of uncertainty without knowing you know if we're gonna get a new farm bill I think for for a while it was hung up along political lines regarding the snap program I mean there's a lot of reasons for it to get stuck somewhere in congress and senate the senate can get stuck anywhere

1:58:48deciding whether the sky is blue the grass is green that could be the toughest issues but um what what's in the bill are we do we generally like it or no yes the Wyoming farm reo federation is supportive of the farm bill we work very closely with the American Farm Bureau federation we are how the farm bureau works for agro-strips organization so our members belong to their county farm bureaus the county to the state and the state to the American farm bureau and we all work very closely together when it comes to the farm bill uh with the American Farm Bureau federation reviews line by line amendment by amendment and so we review and work very closely with all of the policy team there at the American Farm Bureau like you mentioned it's been a while since a farm bill has passed it's been nearly 10 years so um still is let the last farm bill was passed in 2018 and to your question what's in the farm bill there's 12 different titles in the farm bill and how does it impact farming ranching, Wyoming what does that look like there's a lot of different um components in their that impact i think key to think about when you think about a farm bill is is modernizing

1:59:55providing certainty for america's farmers and ranchers that includes you know Wyoming farmers and ranchers and looking at getting a bill that can address the priorities of of agriculture and uh within that that's what impacts us here in Wyoming or many things the commodity titles uh farmers and ranchers are paying much more for input costs while the cost they're receiving you know are definitely not uh keeping up with the inflation there's conservation titles that impact us here in Wyoming there's a lot of great components that come in the farm bill when it comes to conservation management tools risk management tools when you look at crop insurance really just the importance of at there's forestry forestry components in the farm bill processing agricultural research among those 12 commodities and so or excuse me among those 12 different titles in the farm bill and really what it gets back to is is the importance of strengthening agriculture here in america. So i think you did head on a few things but i wanted to ask you what are some major changes

2:01:02that there's new farm bill farm bill 2.0 um what what has happened over the last decade that the old farm bill doesn't address the reason we wouldn't very much welcome a new one what has changed in the ranching farming business and you you mentioned certainly right now a huge issue facing farmers is is costs of uh you know everything they need input into the farm like from fertilizer on down the costs are just it crazy but that probably happens every year year to year what are what can you think of that over the last decade is in farm bill 2.0 that farmers are like oh yeah we've been needing this ever since we had the last farm bill. The biggest thing with a farm bill of course is a certain certainly needed to produce food. American Farm Bureau has compiled some statistics for us when you look at what has changed since congress enacted the 2018 farm bill so you're looking at again nearly 10 years ago that farm economy

2:02:06really look at production expenses they are nearly 44% higher than in 2018 when the last farm bill passed. Interest expenses have risen nearly 63% and croffland values have climbed nearly 46%. So when American Farm Bureau put those numbers together you take a look at that and recognize that at the same time while those input costs have grown the prices that farmers and ranchers are receiving for their products have not grown by that amount and so you know you you we've talked about strong land values we've talked about the increase of ag land valuation earlier this month that doesn't you know that looks great but it doesn't eliminate those cash flow challenges that are created by those higher operating costs and so really the result is really just an ag economy that requires more capital to to keep up with more more capital I guess to operate than it did you know back when the original farm bill was passed in 2018. Karen Clark is with us executive VP Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation right almost across the finish line is farm bill 2.0 the the tie up I'm

2:03:15missing barely got out a committee we had to bring Senator Mitch McConnell out of the grave or wherever he's been to cast the deciding vote to get it out of committee is definitely a party line issue I don't know you know if you want to put on your political hat or how much you know about you know your crystal ball and DC but what's next I mean the Senate has got to push this through and they got to do it with a little bit of a time limit I mean they go on break here soon. They do if we all had a crystal ball that'd be it should be interesting I don't know that we can can can quite look and see it's going to be important for this push it it took a big push of course that it did fail originally before the Senate went on recess earlier this summer and then they came back we appreciate that Senate Act committee chairman Bozeman bringing that back forward discussion and now it's going to go there's going to be need to be some reconciliation in the house you know the house did pass a farm bill and now with the Senate farm bill they'll

2:04:18have to do some reconciliation see where they can go but certainly now it's a time to finish the job we're in 2026 so again that eight years since we've had a farm bill there is so much in the food food security again we've talked about this Jake it's national security and really having competitive agricultural production in in America so we'll see where it goes we'll continue continue watching yeah last time we had Karen Arch we didn't talk a lot about food security equals national security you want to talk about all these national security issues and oil let's talk about food man just feeding our own people that that is a national security issue yeah and farmers and ranchers those in the egg community they just want to know what the rules are so they can play the game and we don't know what the rules are without the passing of this act still hung up in this Senate side we'll see if we can get it there hopefully thanks Karen for being on

2:05:24you bet thank you so much for having us and we definitely will continue pushing for this Senate farm bill to go through and and provide that to a certain deeper America's farmers and ranchers yeah they deserve that and lots lots more uh Karen Clark on the show Cowboy State daily we got to move along our next guest Scott Christians and we'll be up in a moment he's with a greater Yellowstone Coalition Executive Director we'll talk about the Rural Rural Road Act and repealing that if we put roads in rural areas where they previously weren't is that good or bad and I'll give you a spoiler alert Scott's not for it we'll talk with him right after this break looking for a career with purpose and a company that invests in you how to river energy corporation is a consumer owned electric cooperative serving northeast Wyoming and they're looking for leaders to join their team at powder river energy a good life begins with

2:06:27a good company build your career with an industry leader that develops people and helps you plan for the future visit pre-core dot c o o p and click join the team today powder river energy corporation powering more than electricity powering people you're listening to the Cowboy State Radio Network well hate when this happens but we pass along the good and the bad whenever we get it comment section on the Facebook post of our video podcast Linda chimes in usually it's usually primarily it's always something good like love this discussion or you might have something to interject Linda says you are pathetic with an exclamation point Linda tell us how you really feel

2:07:30well I'll try to be less pathetic from here on out tomorrow I have planned on the agenda to be almost not pathetic at all so tune in tomorrow give us another chance get me another chance I promise tomorrow Tuesday is like the most non pathetic day of the week for the show Linda concludes our president is doing his best for America he is married making America great again so I I must have said something that was disparaging the president Trump I don't know what I mean I'm not for Trump or against Trump I am not I'm not for anything politics just don't do it for me but I do want to make America great we all do we want our country to be great that's if we're all pulling on in that direction on the rope we'd be doing a lot better so sorry Linda

2:08:34about my alpathetic on being Bob Cochrane Bob joined the combo with just some kind of statement of mathematical equations equal greater than divided I'm not sure what that means is that like a oh it's an anti Trump thing maybe yeah I don't know but always happy to pass along the comments from the comments section I should look at the YouTube comments more often but I I don't I look at the specifically at Facebook comments mostly but one of these days yeah I'll check the YouTube's I had a couple of things I I did want to pass along here's here's one fun one from the Facebook's this is so cowboy this is why I like it this is real cowboy I'll share the screen there's no audio to it but the video shows a

2:09:39cowgirl with her apple laptop sitting on the back of a horse like she's standing on the ground she's got her laptop her MacBook Pro pro popped up on where you would throw the saddle on the horse and the the tax reads using the standing desk this are they're so popular right these standing desks using the standing desk we told the IRS we paid $20,000 for yeah just in case you wrote off your new standing desk if that standing desk happens to also be a performance source like a barrel racing or it could easily be 20 grand yeah I like that one here's another one I thought showed the difference between Wyoming and California and that's not hard to do right like we couldn't be more different states this is a video from the Daily Mail and keep in mind the Daily

2:10:47Mail is sort of the tabloid newspaper of England it's it's it's you know it's like uh uh who's real trying to think of a US newspaper that's on the verge of pretty much being like tabloid nonsense but Daily Mail anytime they do a news story you know you you should fact check it but it's the Daily Mail it's England's take on California's take on coyotes all right you're following me and from what I gather England believes California is living in terrified fear of coyotes who are in down in in the residential area of I don't know this might be Los oh San Diego this is coyotes in a residential neighborhood in San Diego California doing what coyotes do howling it up um let me share

2:11:57the video and the audio if I yeah it's uh it's pretty much coyotes don't what coyotes do if you heard that yippy howl it's not like the wall foul that's more deep-throated like oh this is more like yotes and they're yipping they get all like site especially when mom brings home like a new kill and the den she brings a home to the den and all the pups I mean they can get going man with that high pitched yipping I mean in Wyoming for the most part that's either so commonplace we don't even give it much thought oh yeah it's a pack of coyotes yipping and yowling or we live to hear something like that like if you're camping it doesn't strike terror in our hearts

2:13:02we we love like oh listen to the wildlife listen to those coyotes plus coyotes are not wolves they they're not gonna eat you coyotes they're pretty much afraid of your cat I mean coyotes are not that but uh in the video which is in the story done by daily male the daily male passes this video on their socials and with the with the caption terrifying for some um maybe for folks in California who who hear a pack of coyotes howling um that could be terrifying but it was it was reassuring to see a lot of response a lot of comments to the story saying that's not terrifying and then explaining the reasons why they didn't think it was terrifying but yeah I think England's got it wrong California's probably got it mostly wrong coyotes howling in your residential area is nothing

2:14:07to be too terrified by um but it was interesting to see what an England newspaper thinks of a California event and how that might play out in Wyoming hmm Andrew Rossi who will be on the show Wednesday I can't wait to talk to him about this Morrison Jeep Trail this is one of the most rugged backcountry roads you'll ever be on and we are going to talk about that country roads in just a moment was Scott Christianson uh we're going to chat about the roadless rule act and repealing that or rescinding that or wherever the proper term is and whether you're for against it what Scott thinks about it he's the uh G Y C greater Yellowstone coalition director and he wrote a he wrote a uh guest column in the in uh Cowboys State daily just recently

2:15:12roadless rule protects more than wild places is his column but uh this this road not in a forest but it it is wild man no doubt about it 6500 feet is what it climbs to the Morrison Jeep Trail in uh it connects you to the Beardtooth Plateau Northwest Cody we just had the park county sheriff on earlier in the show talking about how do you patrol a county that's so big so diverse um park county includes Cody Powell Matizzi and other communities it's also borders Yellowstone national parks you got issues with the feds and the national park and a borders Montana so you got if you're law enforcement you got interagency issues with Montana's law enforcement it's a lot of ground to cover if you're in park county and part of what it covers would be uh this road if

2:16:16you fell off this road for instance if you're driving your four wheeler uh I don't know I would the four wheelers but the only thing I would take on the I would even take a horse on this road because of the rocks let me share a photo of it if you're enjoying the podcast version of this radio show on Facebook or x live or uh on the website cowboystate daily.com you or on youtube and while you're there please subscribe to the channel we're pushing 25,000 subscriptions uh here's uh here's the road this is nasty you wouldn't be you wouldn't take a rental down this or a stolen vehicle I'd be ashamed to drive anything down this that maybe a four wheeler could handle it um but it just recently as Andrew Rossi's story points out just recently became reopened it had been closed

2:17:18for about four years um because of its um ruggedness and because there there have been landslides rock slides it took several months of heavy machinery and explosives to finish the first phase of the job and reopened that trail for the first time since June 2022 uh great job oh it is in the forest service so it's not a new road it wouldn't have anything to do with the repealing or rescinding in the roadless rule road uh that act but it it is an old road that used to be there that they reopened okay um but that is one nasty looking road let's get to the zoomer and see what Scott's doing there he is Scott Christians and joins us Scott is the executive

2:18:20director of the greater Yellowstone coalition we'll talk about his latest column in the cowboy stay daily Scott we were just chatting about that road uh send the news from Andrew Rossi not not a new road but a return of an old road the Morrison Jeep Trail man that thing looks rugged it's just kind of got us on the topic of the roadless rule act and rescinding that or repealing that what's the correct terminology do you happen to know that and thanks for being on Scott yeah it's a pleasure to be here this morning um well the proposal from the US Department of Agriculture is to rescind the roadless rule so it's it's an administrative rule that the agency created over 25 years ago and now they're proposing to rescind it or get rid of it yeah and I want you to help me form an opinion I'm sure you can do that I had a guest on earlier I wasn't sure where I am on data centers

2:19:22you know I got a lot of reasons to hate on them I got a lot of the lot of benefits of them and this column kind of nudged me in one direction so I need you to do that for me with the roadless rule because I like the idea selfishly that I might be able to access a place I'll never be able to get to you know would that be cool but that's me selfish I know what happens when people are able to get to places they jump them up they rowing them so I like to know there's a batch of forest or remote areas of Wyoming and Montana that you know what you're not going to get there and the animals live there and that's just fine so I just don't know yeah well well roadless areas are some of the few places left on our national forests that aren't you know full of tens of thousands of people right they're the places where we go to do you know backcountry hunting or fishing or camping backpacking and it's places that big game you know elk mule deer need for their

2:20:30summer habitat you know there's hundreds of millions of acres of public lands that are really accessible to you and me right now via roads and areas without roads or roadless areas as the forest service calls them are just the few areas that remain that don't have all sorts of different access points to them people can still get in there and use them in fact right now during hunting season there's all sorts of people using them because that's where all the big game is but what this proposed rule change would do is open up these areas that have been largely off limits to new road construction for the last 25 years importantly though there are some exceptions the roadless rule does allow the forest service to build roads to deal with fire issues forest health issues public safety flooding events things like that so it's not it's not a rule without exceptions

2:21:30but the point of it is to keep some of the backcountry protected from all the different uses and things that we have going on overall the other public lands that are out there yeah sky you just mentioned it but this notion that so much of our forest is locked up you know closed off to us because we don't have road access it's not true there there you you know you might have to hump a little harder to get there but that's the point that's why some of these areas make for the most prolific hunting in the American West that's right and if you like Wyoming western Wyoming is a perfect example I mean they'll take the Wyoming range for example so that place is loaded with Mule deer it has one of the biggest healthiest Mule deer populations left in our country most of the Wyoming ranges in as roadless and so there's you know that's not a surprise it's really good habitat and it doesn't have you know it isn't fragmented in a million different ways by

2:22:33tons of tons of roads going through it so it to me it's pretty clear that our big game in the the backcountry experiences that we care about need some little slice of our public lands and the rest of it it is really accessible you think about all the BLM lands that are in the big horn basin around places like Cody or Pinedale or stuff like that if you fly over them in an airplane you should see roads everywhere and very acceptable lots of recreation going on there that's great. Lock the recreation is happening in roadless areas too it's just different and like you said you got to use your legs to get in there in a lot of cases. Greta Yellowstone Coalition Director Scott Christensen as with us we're talking about repealing rescinding the roadless rule act and maybe some of the downsides to that certainly when you invite people people are bad.

2:23:33That's just people are bad but the experience is different. I mean one of the other things the forest service points out in its own analysis is that wildfires are much more likely in places with roads and that's because a lot of wildfires are caused by people and so part of the justification for rescinding the roadless rule is to help with wildfire management. Well the forest service in this proposal admits that repealing the roadless rule will probably lead to more wildfires and that's because get people into the backcountry people start fires in the backcountry and don't do a great job of putting them out or and so to me if we want to deal with wildfires in a more effective way the answer is not to punch a bunch of new roads into our wildest country we're going to end up with more

2:24:34yeah and that's maybe counterintuitive to the narrative we hear from some electives which during wildfires season during the summer that boy that that lands home if you were an elected you're a representative you're in Congress whatever and you want this rule repeal it sounds great to say we'll be able to get in there and fight wildfires better maybe more wildfires will be started more than 90% of us wildfires start within half mile of a road that just makes sense that's in the column written by Scott. So yeah let's call that a wash better fire firefighting or more fires that that washes out let's talk about another threat you believe this repealing rescinding the roadless rule act let's talk about water water huge issue clean water drinking water national forest are where a lot of our water is absolutely if the the headwater of most of our

2:25:39drinking water systems are on national forest lands and a lot of a lot of that area is in a roadless area and we know from you know 100 plus years of research on on the west and how it's developed that when we have a lot of roads in a place that we care about water quality it's a problem it dumps a lot of sediment into streams it creates a lot of problems for drinking water an agricultural water downstream and so to me roadless areas represent kind of an investment in our drinking water supply it's like let's let's bank away some areas and protect them keep them safe make sure that we have a secure water supply otherwise we end up with all sorts of problems and expenses down the road once the water supply gets polluted and we have sedimentation issues and all that we got to pay to clean it and it gets way more expensive. Scott one last thing I think all the

2:26:41issues we're talking about start with W wildfire water and wildlife you know one big reason why there is a greater Yellowstone coalition is the fact that critters don't know boundaries they don't know if they're in Wyoming Montana or Yellowstone National Park and and preserving that habitat and the ability for wildlife to migrate to move roads that has your research and data found that roads are an impediment I mean it's not a fence but animals shy away from roads or is traffic on roads what do roads do they're going to mess up habitat? Yeah Elka a really good example of how wildlife react to roads so in areas on the national forest where there's a really high road density where there's a lot of roads Elk just tends to stay away from them Elk need security they need cover there you know they're spooky they don't like us chasing them around and so they like to hide they

2:27:43like a lot of forest cover and when we have high road densities on our national forests we tend to have less wildlife there and so this proposal for Montana and Wyoming there's about 10 million acres that would lose their protective designation and could be opened up to a road building those 10 million acres represent the best summer range that we have left for Elk and Mule deer again it's kind of like investing in our drinking water wildlife make the world go around in Greater Yellowstone it's such a huge part of our economy our culture everything let's invest in keeping it that way and I think it's it cost-efficient simple way to do it is by keeping roadless areas in tax yes, Scott we already have so much development encroachment on habitat England wiped out all their animals United States all the animal the last bashed in the last hope the place they people come to see wild is Wyoming is Montana is the greater Yellowstone area

2:28:49and if we we got to protect that viciously all right well one last thing Scott is this a done deal as far as like politically are we rescinding is it already happened can we can we you know talk to email the USDA and comment what make our voice heard absolutely and now is the time to do that so the the comment period is very short it just runs to October 6th so it's really important that people make their voice heard right now you can do that by hopping on the Greater Yellowstone Coalition website are going directly to the USDA website searching up roadless rule and you'll find it it's really important that people make their voice heard right now the point right now is to help the USDA and USDA understand how the American people feel about this so weigh in please speak up and not only with USDA but you're elected officials you know let the Wyoming delegation know how you're

2:29:50feeling about this they're hearing it right now from from the American constituents in the state and so far when when this idea was originally floated a year ago and there was a brief scoping period and public comment 99% of the public comment that came in and was received opposed rescinding the roadless rule so it's pretty clear where Americans are on this but please speak out weigh in submit your comments now's the time get her done before October 6th yes Scott because I feel the greatest voice heard right now the greatest push on our electives making decisions is you know every Yahoo with a razor it's it's not necessarily the logging industry or fighting because as you point out the rule already accounts for if the forest service needed to make a road to mitigate you know issues to maintain forest health they could do that they could provide a road for the for loggers yeah that can be done now all right so I don't yeah I'm having trouble understanding who

2:30:53is pushing to get every you know acre of the forest accessible by road I don't I don't know it's a it's a time where the the the central focus is on deregulation and getting rid of many rules as yeah as we can you know the logging industry already has a hundred million acres accessible to them all the all that has a road going to it already so that's the most deficient area to focus or a timber extraction on we need trees you know we need to treat wildfire we need to deal with all those things let's do that on our public lands but these roadless areas are some of the few places we have left that are different you're right I think it's I think this notion that you know it's as a taxpayer it's my public lion I should be able to get to it but care man we could love it to death before you know it there needs to be rules uh Scott thank you so much for being on appreciate it great to see you this morning pleasure to be with you yeah

2:31:54Scott Christmas and go read up more and maybe get involved maybe send your thoughts to the USDA and find out how read the guest column in the cowboy state daily go visit the greater yellow stone uh ecosystem website and get informed get up to date we got uh we're going to drop out here for top of the hour news and then the final hour of the cowboy state daily show coming up we'll see you in six minutes don't go far let's get back into the zoom room more discussion Dale killing back his here with the cowboy state daily Dale how was the weekend what'd you do uh I was recovering from a surgery so uh uh so it wasn't it wasn't uh what I helped it would be but it was it was good

2:32:57not it was not high on your priority not on your to-do list or maybe it was on your to-do list okay yeah yeah so that would account for the scarcity of Dale killing back by line yes sir head kind of a short week last week yeah yeah all right is everything good pretty good excellent um we did see a Dale killing back story September 19th mystery saw flack at flag at 1955 medicine bow peak crash site a tribute to military dead I don't think we've talked about this um united airlines flight yeah that was a follow-up to the story I did earlier um about there was a flag missing and a woman from Kansas said saw that the flag was the situation you'd been there the air before well anyway so that story gets published and this family uh the man I did destroy with is based in Washington state used to be in Fort Collins Colorado and before that Chicago and so

2:34:03he said that his family started planning that flag and it was in honor of his dad who was a U.S. Air Force veteran and who had been a pilot um not in the Air Force but just a private pilot was a aircraft mechanic as well and so back in 2021 when um this guy's son he's living in Chicago his son is living in Fort Collins is hiking through uh this snowy and comes across upon the crash sends it to his dad sends a photo of that to his dad and he says he says I see where you know we've got to put grandpa's ashes you know and so his his father had just died he loved aviation he was in the Air Force of that trend and so the family comes out and does a ceremony plants his ashes on the crash site also puts up a flag and puts up a cap that honors him that that the family had that had the number of their uh assessment of airplane on it whereas dad you know piloted around and so they've been coming back every year to put another flag up there

2:35:04and when the flag is you know been up there a year then they uh take that flag and give it to a member of the family you know it's flown at the site for years in memorial of of their uh dad and grandpa interesting so the previous story was a hiker had noticed oh I've come across this it always has a flag no it doesn't did we know then how the flag even came to be I mean we do now we do now and we also know that that flag was found in a uh pond nearby by another guy who emailed me oh he would he was worried you know about you know the flag being in a pond you know but I was told by the family you know they're gonna keep doing this they you know they want to honor the flag you know their dad was a vet they want to do everything right and he had it strapped he says he gets really strong poles and he straps it down you know two or three different ways to make sure that doesn't happen so we don't know what happened to put that flag in the pond but

2:36:10the family plans it might be I knew what might even be up there right now because the family was planning on going back this month and putting a new flag up there um yeah how close is the pond I mean it could definitely have blown there it doesn't necessarily mean somebody was you know doing shenanigans yeah there was a photo that the guy sent me that found the flag and actually the the pole was like broken in half I don't know you know could the wind take a pole and that had a heavy piece of log and put it into the pond I don't know but they're the wind can do a lot maybe yeah I know it's it's up there on top the mountain the wind is gonna be blowing really strong yeah so we don't know how it got into the pond probably the wind put it in the pond we don't know but the family's plan is to keep honoring their father you know they go back there every year and they're going to keep doing that so I mean the need for a follow up absolutely the original story is interesting but it did solicit what we hoped would be feedback like where did that flag go where

2:37:15did ever come from and we're gonna see it again all these questions have been answered I guess this crash site what what land is it on Dale's this forest service land this is public land of some kind and is it okay to have a flag they'll put a flag on it I don't really dig I don't really dig and say yeah it's public land and everybody hikes up there I mean you can hike up there it's it's access accessible so yeah so I assume that you can have a flag up there nobody's taking it down over five years so I don't know you know definitely I don't know I didn't talk to the BLM or the state game and fish whoever owns it I don't know yeah maybe don't because I don't think you can leave stuff you know you know supposed to take things leave no trace you know supposed to take stuff but I think also there was a time where if people got into geocaching where you could leave like a ammunition man the forest service kind of like you know we're not really crazy about that and if

2:38:18everybody put a flag wherever the heck they wanted you know but yeah let's not yeah but this is a special location there's yes remnants of the crash there you know they they've made a little memorial kind of just a hot memorial there so you know it's a special place yeah okay what do you got cooked up for the week back to work we don't want to hear any doctors notes back to the board yeah I'm back to work and there's a couple history things that are in the can that hopefully make the light of day I think there's some interesting stories one one I'll give you a hint one is involving a member of the Barker gang back in the day all that Barker gang Barker gang those Barker he was in Wyoming and he did something that that was terrible so no no Barker boys are at it again all right thanks Dale appreciate it all right have a great week

2:39:20you two down killing back of the cowboy state daily show we'll get Mayor Arndt Georgian Sonopierry he mayors over all things Jackson Wyoming and the issues facing Jackson very much like the issues facing everywhere affordable housing is trouble tourism maybe not everywhere I mean the influx of tourists straining the infrastructure that could be a Cody Sheridan any talents any communities that are undergoing growth and doing it smartly Jackson it's got the blueprint on that all eyes on Jackson regarding growth chancey Williams still to come yes one of our favorite home grown musicians a chance to catch up with chancey he's got a new record dropping October 23rd called thirsty and blue he thinks it's his best well all that coming up before

2:40:29the hours out let's take a break get ready for Mayor Georgianson this is the cowboy state daily radio network hey y'all we're headed to the 0-2 or the 0-1 paint 3 0012 Jackson Wyoming and we're going to talk to Mayor Arndt Georgianson we'll talk about certain issues that have been in the news lately but first I just want to get an overview of the state of the state the state of the town of Jackson which is officially I guess we could start there Mayor Georgianson Jackson's officially is city now by population but we still call it town of Jackson um Jake thank you so much for having me on this morning really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you always have for many many years um yeah we became a first-class city which is the language in the state's attitudes in

2:41:30to in 2002 if I remember right um the count at that time likes the sound of town better than city so we've chosen to be to doing business as the town of Jackson yeah I like that too um yeah let's let's talk about the issues facing Jackson that are not unlike issues facing many communities across by Wyoming but it often times 10 when we're talking about Jackson um housing housing an issue there's just a sir they're not as Bob McClure and used to say they're not making more land affordable housing just a huge issue in Jackson it it plays out uniquely uh because the driver of the need for housing is often the city where the town and the relief is putting housing often in the county so that means uh town and county got to get along together and get on the same page when it comes to affordable housing that might be an issue at times depending on who's in office but

2:42:34affordable housing is real um mayor um when I moved back home in 89 um I recognized that started there was a founding board member of the Jackson whole community housing trust and nonprofit now same time we created the tea town county it then became tea town county Jackson housing department and housing authority um it is our biggest issue and I think it's really important to be clear about it you know we if you're earning your living within our local economy you will always be outbid by the wealth that attracted to this community that has no connection to that economy this is wealth that's being generated somewhere else um it's being brought to Jackson and to Wyoming um for a number of reasons but it had no connection to your economy meaning that there's no connection to wagers there's no connection to any of that so um unlike a theoretical discussion about three markets and private enterprise that depends on a functioning marketplace and we don't have that because of that wealth

2:43:39um so if you look at that through that lens you know we have been tremendously I see my dog showing up here so we have some barking in the background apologize um we end up with a community if you want to maintain a community not become a resort only we need to invest in housing for community members that takes a wide range of tools we've been doing this for 30 years and I'm intensely proud of that we've created 1700 homes in this community that are built for and protected for members of our workforce members of our community and we need double that um that's what we've been doing and we've tacked ourselves we put out many many options for the voters say yes we want to go do this work um we recognize that we have responsibility as employer when it comes to critical service providers like fire on department police school district you know each of those entities are also building housing for the public but we also recognize that you need you need basic community members that

2:44:43you know work in the grocery store to work at the post office to have a functioning community so we work very hard to do that the thing I'm intensely proud of Jake is we also recognize we need to protect that public investment whether that public investment is zoning which you kind of alluded to with the county or whether that public investment are dollars and making sure that it continues to be focused on people that live and work in this community you made a a good point about affordable housing for the argument that you know it's not government's job to build housing housing should be part of the you know the private sector should should follow just regular you know supply demand it's interesting because the town of Jackson's economy doesn't play by the rules as you mentioned the outside wealth just tips the scales it messes everything up so if you think you're just going to let you know free market rule the day free market could ruin the day

2:45:49um yeah that's interesting yeah I mean the easiest thing to do as a politician and Tita County would be doing nothing to do not we become we become we become a resort right immediately yeah that everybody can you to rather than many people to meet and I want to speak a little bit to the comedy made about the county in 2012 we updated a comprehensive plan which I'm very proud we do jointly with the county that is unique in that under the guise of conservation we shifted density to the town of Jackson recognizing that and and other other they called nodes within the county yeah that's important but it means that the impacts now reside in the town of Jackson of that development um and so and and and I will also say for those in my community who don't want us to quote build our way out of the problem which we never will and that's not Michael we have a great tool which would be we could acquire existing units and place with public investment and place on the

2:46:51restrictions and then resell them or rent them um to make sure they stay affordable over time that's very expensive but we could choose to do that and the community so far is not we do we do it in a small sense but we really should scale that off because that would address people who are concerned about too much activity in the town of Jackson and then you and I have had discussions over the years about that Jackson certainly is the poster child of a community that is nearly loved to death but hanging in there Mayor Jorgensen I will say is but you're talking about a town of you know whatever 10,000 but he could be 10 times that on a given summer day talk about the ability of the town just the infrastructure to keep up it's not easy uh the budget of just paying for it but uh police fire I mean when you call 911 somebody has to come uh the infrastructure the sewer the water everything is are you hanging in there we are and I'm proud of that um we have

2:47:56our challenges but you're right we have to provide an infrastructure with its service or physical that serves a community much much larger than ours the numbers that I've been told I'm not sure how accurate they are I suspect they're a little bit of an undercount a busy day in August in Teton County we have 60 to 70,000 people here oh yeah um and that's that's being built on a year-round population in Teton County of 25,000 the town is just about half of that so um that is really hard and I'll say to my legislative friends and I really mean that seriously I I have built and maintained relationships with many Wyoming legislators please give us the tools that allow us to provide that infrastructure because we are critical to the economy in the state of Wyoming yet the legislature frequently seems more inclined to reduce the tools that we have rather than recognize we are different we have a different economy not better at worst not at all um I'm on the board of Wham the Wyoming Association is a penalty so and I used to be on the the board of the Wham community

2:48:59foundation so I know what the other communities in this in this state are dealing with then they're different than us and again it's not better at worst give us tools they would allow us to access that wealth that had no connection to our economy and the legislature so far has been very resistant to do yeah yeah we've seen that's ongoing for decades um shy and does believe Jackson is different believe me very different they're not sure Teton County's part of Wyoming and you have to come up against that bias all the time uh Devon Veman on the town council she's somebody who's been able to navigate on a statewide basis but yeah uh to have Jackson's voice and heard and shy and it's never been easy no and it is I remember um you know when I see my friend around the state when they choose to go vacationing many of them not all many of them get frustrated because there's so much going on up here come to Jackson and and that's a result of nearly a hundred years at this

2:50:03community whether they're local decisions or whether they were a state or federal decisions making decisions around conservation so in 1929 the national monument was created in the Teton with the first kind of real conservation move and we've expanded on that literally within the park service but also within our community for a hundred years and sometimes those were very controversial decisions actually maybe always um but they have resulted and many people are around the state that I talked to would suggest that to failure it's not we've created a community that literally attracts millions of people a year some of them they're wealthiest in the world um that is success now it brings with it huge challenges you just mentioned how do you do it only one of their transportation providing health and health and human services to our community members um um we have created a success story it is not a failure and and again you've lived here for a long time you understand and you have lived that change and it can be very frustrating sometimes but that is

2:51:05a consequence of success um so then how do we respond to that um and then that's very much the challenge that I look forward to every time I I apply myself to the interests of our community mayor jargon mayor jargonson is with us the town of Jackson is in many ways a potential blueprint for hot to handle uh uh you know tourism to yes tourism industry grows I know Cody Sheridan other towns are looking at Jackson how are they doing it what are they getting wrong um yeah uh Jackson whether the town likes it or not is sort of a de facto blueprint on how to how to do tourism mayor I want to talk about the the late one way you do tourism is you got to build a workforce it's not from Jackson you got to import a workforce with J ones it's been a vital the visa has been so crucial to uh Jackson whether it's uh you know every season it seems to be a different community

2:52:07um a lot of Turkish in in the service industry which I a lot I mean we've been talking about their music I have their food I'm a fan of all the sudden of the Turkish women's volleyball team like it's so interesting to share cultures you know previously it might have been Maldova or Albania um J ones they just become integrated in our culture for for a season and recently we saw an ice incident that was in the newspaper uh in the cowboy state daily uh it's concerning um because our friends and neighbors are workforce now we we got to talk about what's legal and illegal as far as being here uh on a visa on a work visa um but this uh notion that Teton County Sheriff Matt Car would have loved a heads up on this ice operation he said you know to the average person and to us as a police force it looked like kidnapping uh when when an ice operation happens without a

2:53:09heads up to local law enforcement it could get dangerous I mean the you could have multiple agencies who don't know what's going on if they came across this and you didn't particularly like at your uh quote in the news article that uh these people are integral to our community they're integral to our economy but you also had concerns about you know how it looks when ice just pluck somebody off the street in broad daylight uh Jake you could have said it I couldn't have said it better right I mean I think you laid that out there very nicely um you know I and the the other comments I made when interviewing with your your colleague is the conflict and and I want to be really careful here so I'm aware of the incident that was happened last Tuesday um I don't know all the details um but it seems to fit a pattern that we haven't seen locally but we're seeing nationally and the conflict that we're talking about the reason you're asking me this question is result of a

2:54:12who a absolutely broken federal immigration system and it has been for decades and that is multiple administrations multiple congresses democrat and republican have failed this country um in putting in place a predictable enforceable immigration system that is on congress that is on the federal government and what really tears me up is the people paying the price for that dysfunctional system is this young woman from turkey um are the many people that that have been picked up in our jail through the hold that that may have had personal immigration status get it and let's enforce that let's fund the process to adequately enforce that with the due process of law built in again both administrations democrat republican have failed to do that that's a federal failure not a young woman from turkey and I cannot say that strongly enough and that and it's really interesting Jake I I received two emails since that article was written and they're

2:55:17really interesting one of them I think it was somebody from cash reprieve remember right um you know which very much taking this line of they're illegal they broke the law I get it and I'm not you know we need to enforce our borders we need to enforce a rational immigration system unfortunately it's not rational um and I just refuse to hold accountable this vulnerable community they're the ones paying the price and then by extension our businesses by extension our visitors um and and and that's and and by the state of Wyoming again we are the number tourism which represents most of our economy at the second largest industry in the state of Wyoming um I I implore us to look for the solutions that are at the core my community after that that event on Tuesday is less safe not more safe because of that action and where I why I say that is there's no indication and again I don't know all the facts there's no indication this individual at any kind of a criminal issue it was a

2:56:21misdemeanor um it appeared like there may have been an overstay of a visa Jay when besa that you talked about I don't know that to be a fact that it appears to be what's the case um no indication of criminal activity zero certainly no indication of violent criminal activity what happens when we have this kind of targeted rage or this targeted effort is you need now have about a third of our community and that this is expanding beyond Jay when visas about a third of our community are immigrants we are instilling fear in the third of our community they are much less likely to pick up the phone if they witness a crime either against themselves or against another community member there may be a non immigrant community um when I talk to the sheriff or I talk to your chief of police or I talk to our lieutenant they are not about we need trust within all of our community members including the 30% that are immigrants and these kind of actions erode that trust that puts me at risk it puts our community at risk it puts a law enforcement at risk and and I just again responsibility this is a

2:57:26federal failure to create an enforced rational immigration law and I am not we are not a sanctuary city we do not um welcome people here in order then to defend them again something that's not what we're about we're here to follow laws follow both state and federal laws the problem is these laws are dysfunctional at this point yeah and this issue has played out for instance in the race for sheriff you you've got the incumbent Matt Carr to what degree does the the local sheriff of T. Time County want to cooperate with ice or or or or not is become a campaign issue for sheriff as that race heats up so we're seeing it um you know if you have enjoyed a visit to Jackson hole it's only because of an imported workforce I mean that town cannot operate without importing its workforce and yes we want to do it legally um but um you know it might be broken all the way up

2:58:32in Congress as Mayor Jorgensen points out and it leaves communities like Jackson just you know as a pinball but you do uh Mayor you you mentioned you you don't want to classify uh Jackson as any kind of sanctuary city there was talking to prior administration of like tacitly being uh you don't you want to tell people look you're you're safe we want you here we need you here to work um but we're not you know gonna protect you if you're illegal that would be sanctuary city area the the problem with this terminology that's a different definition definition depending where you're coming from right yeah no I know I I can hear the some voices of my friend and colleagues you shouldn't raise sanctuary city but again it's it's important to acknowledge these discussions and um and I just want to reiterate um these are community members um and whether or not it's a J1 visa or whether it's a good friend of mine

2:59:35that came here legally over 30 years ago married raised a family here um I don't know that I don't ask these questions they're immigration status what I do know is that they are more fearful today because of what's happening there's more stress for them they're fortunately their kids are going to college right so they're not worried about about who gets to who's home when their kid comes over school kind of situation which is just can you imagine as a parent being in that situation um that's just not okay it's just not how we treat fellow human beings who are not doing anything wrong and the other email like I referenced two of them the other email with somebody who is immensely proud and I'm gonna I'm not sure I get all the details here married um somebody from another country I think that's not like they have kids um they were bending over backwards it sounded like even living outside the country it took them 10 years to go through the process to bring his family here you know and he was very proud and his his frustration

3:00:37was these people said go through you know follow the law like I did like wait a minute couldn't we be questioning that law if you're marrying somebody to happen to be another another country why would we put in place a system that would require you to spend 10 years some of which living outside this country in order to bring them here and that's just baffling to me that that we're choosing just settled up ourselves up for that and I mentioned in passing part of it is the immigration system as broken as it is we're also then not funding the court system and the judicial system to to um adjudicate these situations so they're getting of mr. meters they're not they're not criminal activities they're certainly not violent there maybe something that are and I just would say I know our local law enforcement if ice has intel on somebody that has an immigration question mark who also has a violent past let our law enforcement know we want to be part of that invitation we want to be part of

3:01:40supporting a legal effort to go find that individual and then hold them accountable whatever they might need to be held accountable for this is not we're not sheltering criminals certainly violent criminals um and I and I really appreciate your your interest in this issue um you have been close to it and I recognize that other just may not be as familiar with this community and what's important for us to be able to function to come and and I get emails saying well you're paying slave labor it's like you can go to target entry-level job at target I think it's 25 or 26 dollars an hour right our our business are not paying um slave labor at all and um and that's just something that our business community is very proud of mayor jorgensen is with us mayor of the town of Jackson one last thing we'll get off the uh ice issue let's go back to uh the town of Jackson and and what you have seen um leading up to you being mayor what you want to see for the future uh by

3:02:41the way if you want to get involved there I think there's still an opening on the design review committee if you're listening in the Jackson area um yeah be be part of the solution and get involved mayor I think that one of the biggest overall issues facing Jackson is you know folks from 10 years ago say it doesn't look like the same town it was 10 years ago it doesn't look like the town it was 20 years ago 1960 70 that changed the change the change major developments coming in I mean uh town leaders are always trying to keep a you know a sense of uh of a vibrant community including you know developments that come in being required to have certain retail and smaller ground level first floor things to still have a feel of a small town you know height limits whatever what are the efforts by the town of Jackson and the mayor to make sure Jackson you know

3:03:41changes but doesn't change too much um how much time you give me a good point that's loaded man I mean I mean and I said I mean all serious right I mean this this maybe another opportunity let me know in a week or two I'll come back um on a very high level and you mentioned change my my father and my mother and my stepmother all moved here in the mid 50s early 60s right so we have a strong I was born in this community um and my family has been through various um time cycles of change in the 50s with the creation of the park um we moved we lived in Maryland through a few years in the 70s we moved back here in the mid 70s the skier had been here for about 10 years there might be a job in the winter time um I moved back home in 89 and kind of part of the current change that we're seeing now the difference today I had a good friend of mine saying our arm we're losing our cultural memory which I love that comment right and it's that rate of change

3:04:44so in those past opportunities in those past times that my family has been part of this change it was slow enough that there was a simulation it was slow enough that when someone moved here from wherever no judgment where they come from in my mind um people from somewhere else have contributed this community in ways that are just mind boggling right um but we learned from them they learned from us the challenge today is the rate of change is so fast it's hard to be assimilated right and I don't mean that in a negative sense I that's a positive that can be a positive and this common of whether what is a cultural memory some of it might be the built environment which is more of a physical element but even more importantly are a set of values and a set of what does it mean to be a community in a place like this um and you know I went back to that conservation discussion that I was making earlier that's what makes this place unique and so what how do we manage change so that people recognize what makes it special and that we all work to steward

3:05:48and to move that forward and then just very briefly because you asked very specific about physical development we are making efforts our land development regulations did not anticipate what we call aggregation of lots it anticipated one or two lots being developed we now have developers that with what's called patient capital start buying up lots of a decade and may may put together 11 lots for example the type of development on 11 lots that comply with our regulations look very different than a one or two lot development so we're putting in and we're making changes and these are these take time to see the results of this change um but we're doing that we're addressing large buildings we're addressing that aggregation and making sure that when development comes in it's a development that's an added to our community and not a negative not something that's taking from our community um and that's something and we're not done with that that's an that's an evolution that's something that you evolve over time you adapt over time um there is a thing in the state of

3:06:48Wyoming in the United States about property rights and we need to be really careful about that and we are we take it very seriously so that's what we're navigating and I'm proud of what we're doing and could we do it more aggressively could we do it faster certainly government doesn't work quickly but um if you want if you want to dive into that issue in more depth jig anytime open to that discussion I appreciate it we will need more time just to bring up the challenges facing Jackson and possible solutions that's like a whole morning show the mayor knows that mayor adorgenson thanks for being on have a great Monday thank you so much so grateful thank you for being here you bet chancey Williams is next you're listening to the cowboy state daily radio network all right cowboy state daily show final hour final segment on a monday otherwise known is I'm officially out of coffee so it could get angry I'll try to control myself chancey Williams is here

3:07:50he's gonna bring the caffeine I mean chancey we're so lucky to have you man thanks for coming on nope thanks for having me on today I sure appreciate it too we all of us love you're you're one of those guys you're bipartisan you're you just transcend anything uh everyone from Wyoming loves you and now outside of Wyoming we got to learn to share you with the rest of the world because chancey Williams man he's busting out we're gonna talk about the new album drop I would love to play some chancey music but unfortunately his ass cap BMI bots out there won't flag us even if we have permission from chancey we probably can't get away with it um yeah let's talk about uh how you got here and I I love I mean we're gonna talk we'll probably say the word authenticity so many times because that's that's what marks this guy um his me he feel it in his music and you're gonna hear it when

3:08:54you talk with him uh he's true blue Wyoming cowboy rodeo whatever but talk about coming up in uh uh Wyoming and doing it the rodeo way man that's that's great what a culture yeah the been very fortunate you know uh to be able to grow up in Wyoming is a place like no other you know I've got traveled the world all across the United States there's no place like Wyoming and you know a lot of kids weren't as fortunate as I was you know I got to grow up on a ranch in morecroft and uh grew up you know my parents supported us rodeo and and got to do all that for a really long time and then have that been fortunate to have a career in music and still still get to live and based out of Wyoming so there's nothing like it uh the story recent story on chancy from renai jena a chance to catch up with chancy Williams uh in this uh mat idler photo by the way chancy we have to do a a shirt trade dude this is the coolest shirt I have ever oh man I covered the shirt so much uh

3:10:03yeah that uh I think I found that a second hand store or something to get that to you some of them older shirts just they seem to fit a little better I don't know why maybe it's because I'm old school they just look cooler um yeah so I mean go back to the rodeo saddle brunk um this I'm so interested in this state of rodeo then and rodeo now as high school you competed in the national high school finals uh also college national finals rodeo uh you had a rodeo career as a youngster in a sport where man you get banged up though the the shelf life of a rough stock rider is minimal uh I think yeah it was uh you know it was fun you know my dad rode saddle brunks and rode bearbacks too and you know me and my brothers and my kids just obviously wanted to be like dad so you know it was kind of in our blood uh grew up you know doing all the youth rodeos it kind of did every event we team roped calf rope but you know by the time I got the high school you know

3:11:05bronch riding was our passion and so you know rode all through high school and loved every second of it and went to high school national finals when I was a senior and then got a rodeo scholarship to cast for college and was excited to go there you know my dad rodeo to cast for college and my mom went to college there too so I wanted to be a thunder bird got the rodeo there for Tom Parker for three years and rode saddle brunk and I team roped and calf rope too and college but uh around my third year I just thought man I just want to focus on riding buck and horses and not have to haul a horse to all them college rodeos so made the college national finals you know it cast for my third year and then I decided I needed to probably finish my degree so I went to university Wyoming and finished out my fourth year rodeo at UW and made the college finals there too and stayed in finished my degrees but yeah the rodeo uh you know it's one giant family you know I think part of my success in music is is my rodeo background you know we get to play a lot of rodeos and

3:12:06a lot of those guys I grew up rodeo and with are now committee members at rodeos all across the US so we get a lot of dates and a lot of rodeos booked uh for music because of the the history and the big family of rodeo interesting yeah think about all the ties there where you know you got people remember you coming out of shoot number three and now they're putting you on stage at their uh county fair they're the rodeo yeah yeah it pays off at the end and uh you know you can't talk chancey Williams without thinking of Chris Ladoo um both uh you know similar career trajectories where you start out authentically real Wyoming uh real cowboy and and and then shift morph into a music career um I don't know you write as much about rodeo as christian but um certainly it reflects in your songwriting uh to just you're the last guy who's gonna chase down you know the typical

3:13:11loss lost my dog, romance whatever we see Nashville churning out you're always gonna be true talk about your songwriting and how much you draw on rodeo and just growing up in Wyoming yeah you know Chris obviously was every kids hero in Wyoming you know not only because he was a world champion bearback rider but he was a huge success in country music you know I was still people he he lived two lives uh you know in a short life and they christ died when he was 55 or something but you know he had a huge music career world champion bearback rider so it was hard not to look up to Chris and I you know I tell everybody all the time he paved the way for guys like me that that do music you know and he's the king of Wyoming and will always be the king and he made it possible for you know a little Bronchrad and high school kid to dream of being a singer and that's that's what I didn't you know and even though I looked up to Chris I never wanted to be Chris you know there's only ever one so I wanted to create my own path but it was a you know same

3:14:14trajectory for sure you know I was riding broncs going to rodeos singing behind the bucking chutes uh riding and recording songs about life on the road as a rodeo cowboy so the same type of stuff and uh it definitely influences my music you know I tell people all the time that you know I stay in my lane when it comes to songwriting and stuff I sing about you know I'm everybody in the state that knows me knows I'm a rodeo cowboy ranch kid for more croft and that's who I am and uh that's what I sing about so I I just try to stay authentic to to who I am and into the great state of Wyoming and you know we get like I said travel coast to coast playing music I try to represent uh who we are as people in Wyoming everywhere we go you know we're hard working you know keep our head down respectful people and so I try to represent our great state wherever we go yeah and that's staying in your lane representing being Wyoming that plays in state for sure that's why you're our hero

3:15:18but give me a sense chance see how does that play in Virginia Florida or any of the places you've gone to the in concert on state you know it's singing a true authentic real Wyoming cowboy stuff to be that resonates with people even if they don't know anything about it or have no connection for sure and I think again like you said at the beginning of the interview like it comes down authenticity I think people can look at me on stage and they can see me in interviews or talk to me on the street I'm the same guy whether I'm on stage or on the street um but I think people like to to live by carelessly through my type of music you know there's people on the east and west coast that have only seen how we live you know in TV shows or movies so I think they can get a picture of how we live through my music and so I try to paint that picture for them when we write stuff you know and tell people how how wonderful it is out here I try not to overdo it too much we don't want everybody coming out yeah yeah we sure like people coming to visit our beautiful state but

3:16:22we we do kind of like the remoteness of being the the least populated state in the union it's wonderful and I tell people that all the time you know if I'd have grown up anywhere other than while I mean you know there's a chance I would have just moved to Nashville and lived there for my career you know I'm in country music and that's the country music capital but it's really hard to explain to people the the beauty of while I'm in and why I still live here you know it's it's like a place like no other and I care about it deeply well I want to live by carelessly through you when it comes to rodeo without having to eat dirt or getting hung up or making a 90 something ride and find out you didn't mark them out man rodeos and not easy chancey Williams is with that's a tough old sport for sure oh god what anyone's still doing it hats off to you you got to just a few like a little over a week left to go earn your money man so we'll see who's at the NFR Jesse you're one of the one of two guys you and Chris who have not only been on the arena floor

3:17:27and eaten arena dirt but you've been on stage as shine in frontier days you also recently headline UW kickoff concerts September 11th that's got to be pretty cool feather in your cap for sure yeah that was neat you know because you know I'm a university Wyoming alumni it was fun to come back and play where I went to college you know I was brown and gold forever as a saddle braw and cradder and loved it and then it was fun I even got to go the day we played to the college business and speak to a marketing class they invited me in and it kind of felt full circle I was need to to go back and have a comp or something in life that you know some kids UW wanted to hear me talk about so it was you know love UW and obviously shine frontier days that stat I have with Chris is is so special because you know it's hard to it's hard to compete in rodeo at the level that it takes to ride at shayan but it's also hard to get to the level playing music where you get to play

3:18:28the main stage so it's it's a fun stat to have with Chris and you know shyan is what kind of built our career we've played the beer tank for years and I got to ride there my dad won shyan and 1971 rookie brown creds so shyan's been very special and I was super fortunate you know they put me in the hall of fame a couple years ago which I'm still to this day humbled by it's uh one of those things I never dreamed would ever happen and you know to be in there with the names of you know Garth Brooks George straight Chris and it's just really special that uh shyan is is my favorite place to play and well forever be I think. Chancellor Williams is with us I don't know what there is further left to do in the state of Wyoming you've achieved it all I think it's time now to bust out and take this thing worldwide maybe thirsty and blue will be what does it you pretty proud of this record what are we going to hear on it you said you think it's your strongest ever at drop stock tober 23rd what's coming up in this yeah this this album you know this day in music you

3:19:33got to put a lot of stuff out you know fans want stuff all the time and so we're we're trying to put out and record and write as much as possible but yeah this album is called thirsty and blue and we've already singled five songs off it and they've been doing great but the other six on there the fans haven't heard yet they're going to be excited about we we shot a really neat music video for the title track thirsty and blue we shot it at mezcal studios in Arizona and it's the same movie set where they shot tombstone and uh the outlaw Josie Wales and the quick and the dead so we shot this kind of spaghetti western type buster scrub shrugs feel of a of a music video down there we had you know 30 extras and horses and stuntman and it's going to come out October 23rd and we're going to do a kind of a video premiere for it October 23rd at the reaulto theater in in casper so we're going to do a little red carpet for this video we're going to play a little acoustic set for everybody and so it'll be October 23rd at the reaulto but same day the album comes out

3:20:36and the movie is going to or the music video is going to premiere so that'll be fun very cool you probably already heard saddle up if you lived here it's my lie these are all forthcoming singles off thirsty and blue but there's more common stuff you uh have not heard also speaking of spaghetti westerns you're going to be like in a Louis Lamore adaptation on the movie what are you not doing Chansey yeah so that's actually this Friday I'm flying the Nashville there for the Nashville film festival they're premiering it's a movie called flant it's uh it's a movie often old Louis Lamore book called flant and uh yeah so last summer I got to go to Montana around Livingston area and be on this movie said and I'm in it real short I'm a ranch hand uh for for this guy and uh I got two on screen lines so that's kind of fun but yeah I can be my first movie premiere on Friday I've never been to a movie premiere so I'm going to fly to Nashville on on Thursday do the movie premiere

3:21:38Friday night and then Saturday flying to Sioux Falls for the for the the governor's cup it's last rodeo the the regular season to see who makes it and for but yeah first time in a movie and it's uh unbelievable yeah dude and less wardrobe says otherwise you gotta wear the shirt and then we make the shirt trade I know that's right uh man Chansey Williams with us hey thanks a lot man don't forget to come back catch up again okay hey thanks grab me answer appreciate all you guys do for not only us but the the great state of Wyoming you guys the best it's all for the cowboy state you know that thank you uh yeah we got to drop out of here that's going to do it for us for this show we'll see you again tomorrow same time good morning this is the cowboy state daily morning show with Jake the new way Wyoming wakes up