782. Philip Mantle

0:00This is Hota Kotby from Joy 101 with Hota Kotby, whether you're calling the wise women in your life, video calling your girlfriends across the country, or checking in on someone who always knows how to make you smile, staying connected matters. Those small conversations shared laughs and quick halos are what keep relationships strong even when life gets busy. Some of the most life changing conversations start with just a phone call. That's why AT&T guarantees a network you can rely on so you can focus on the moments and people that matter most. That's the AT&T guarantee. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit AT&T.com slash guarantee for details. I love a brighter smile. What I don't love is that little wince when I take a sip of something cold or even breathe in cold air. You know that feeling that takes your breath away that ssouch eek. That's why I like SenzaDine clinical white. It's triple action formula Whiten's

1:01Holishes and helps protect against sensitivity. Plus it protects against new stains for up to six months. So I can keep enjoying my iced coffee and everything else I love without the sensitivity. Wider teeth without the wince. Try SenzaDine clinical white today. Everybody wants a shot. A chance to show the world what they got. Nick Cannon presents Wolland Out Live, the next generation tour. Bring him back the all-star cast you know and love and introducing the next generation of rookies featuring the famous Wolland Out Loathe battles. Plus your chance to get on stage and be part of the action. Live across North America. Sign up for pre-sale access now at LiveNation.com Hi everyone. I'm Martin Wollascha Host and we've got a real treat for you. I've had to

2:11fill up our guest Philip Mantle from across the pond on the show many times over the years. Always been a great pleasure. The very first time I spoke with Philip I do believe was at toward the beginning of the show somewhere around 2011-2012 and it was all about the alien autopsy film and a funny thing I mentioned about that when I first saw that came out. I wasn't really into the topic at the time. I was a very busy person with my own auction company and I remember going into my house and my wife at the time was watching TV and I saw this alien on a table and them operating and I go oh my god so it is real and then I walk through and I just got right back to business right back to working and so at that time I can understand why people don't look at this topic when they're really busy and have a lot to do in their life. It's sad because I think it's the most interesting topic of all times. One of the very most interesting topics.

3:15Anyway later on as I got into the show and starting in 2011 I saw this gentleman and Philip Mantle and he was talking all about the alien autopsy film so I said oh yeah I remember that and got him on and he did a lot of work on basically debunking the whole thing which still stands today. So if you see that film for the first time you think it's real spoiler alert it is not. So I want to thank everyone that watches the show, listens to the show and anyone can support the show over at podcastufo.com you'll see our Patreon link. You can watch it always live, free of ads and things like that. Again I want to thank you all for watching the show and listening to the show wherever you are. Thank you and I'm going to bring in my guest right now. Philip glad to have you back on. Hello Martin nice to speak to you again. I would have to say this is probably the 10th time you've been on the show over the years you were on. A couple of key times when I just mentioned the alien autopsy you said everyone's straight on

4:18that you did a really great work on that and and I know you dug hard and then one of the other times when it was I don't want to say a hoax but just possibly carelessness was the Roswell slides era. Do you remember I had you on right after that a whole bunch of us. Yeah yeah I'd say a hoax but there you go. Yeah but yeah that was a debacle for sure but you've been at this a long time and it seems like there's been a lot of time where there's really hope and things seem to be moving forward and then something like that happens and right now I'd say the the Bugus spear I think is probably I don't think there's anything to that. I know there are spheres that people have seen metal spheres like that they haven't really been able to prove that thing was flying around. They're they don't really have any solved video of that but anyway I don't know if you've looked into that one at all. I've had enough with hoaxes and fakes Martina. Today to avoid them if I can. I mean the

5:18alien autopsy film we've just done a documentary this year it's called the Alien Othopsy Scandal that went out on sky. I dare say it will be on some other platforms at some point but it's a film will never leave me. I'm curious to play it. It follows me everywhere and it took a long time. It seems to call things a fake and a hoax Martina. I realised that and perhaps I should have done but I was determined to get to the bottom of it. It took me a lot of years but nonetheless I got there in the end and I'm glad I did. It's all in my book. I've published everything. I've not hidden anything and then I still people believe it's authentic of course which that's up to them. I don't know if it's true or not. You may know this but I heard there's going to be like a a refresh that he's putting it out again and trying to get it out again and I know there was a lot of money made on it and it's very unfortunate. Someone has thrown the figure of a quarter of a

6:19million dollars profit made off of it but I don't know if that's true. Oh, Martina, that's nowhere close. Really? They made more than that just from Fox Television. And this was all around the world. Then later on there was a movie made of it as well. So you're talking about several million pounds they made. Yeah, I just want to bring this up because these type of things really bother me because it's muddying the waters of the really good stuff. And so I want to tell you that someone sent me a link to, hey, a new Roswell tape came out of someone that was on their deathbed and talking about they saw this alien in person and all that. So I started watching and listening to it and I started thinking, oh my god, this is all AI. And so I put it into one of the AI programs and said, is this AI? Is this all AI? And it said red flags. This is a fictional character. There's no such thing and all that. But it says in the very bottom line of the text description, it says fiction.

7:24There's not one single person that's going to read that text and see at the very bottom that it's fiction. So it's totally muddying the waters. And listen to this. They'll have 150,000 views and five days. So these people are caching in on the fake stuff and it's really sad because people like you and I try to keep things straight and the views on YouTube are kind of dismal these days compared to the way they used to be. But if you want to do a fake story, you can get a lot of views and make a lot of revenue, which is. Yeah, and I have a new book out at the moment called UFO Reflections. And it's looking back at some of the things that have been involved with down the years, Martin. And one of the things I've been involved in was an alleged near witness to the Roswell crash. And it's in the book. There's nothing redacted. All the names are there and certainly not AI, Martin. What happened was, be about 10 years ago now,

8:32Adjutant, I'm from the States called Scott, got in touch with me. Now, Scott ran a TV company and they made TV movies. And he said, I've dealt with this client before. And she was a private investigator, but she passed away. And her grown up children were going through her belongings. And in her filing cabinet was one file, Martin. And it just said Roswell on it. In that file was a VHS videotape and a few papers. So they popped the videotape into the player. And hey, Prestil, there's an old boy on there. It's a very informal interview. He's obviously in his own house. And they just follow the camera around with him. And he's chatting away and they'll throw questions at him. And his name is Charles Fogas, or was, he's diseased. But it was deputy Charles Fogas. Come the end of the Second World War. He joined the

9:35police force. Not in Roswell, but a place called Big Spring, Texas. And he said in 1947, they were looking for a guy in the area who'd been cashing and dud checks. And he'd been caught and put in the local jail down in Roswell. So him and the sheriff made arrangements to go and pick this chap up off they go in the car. And he said, Bonne Rue, the boss, picks up some details about something on the police radio. They managed to find the location. He said they were lifting this object out of this little goalie on a crane. And they were creatures there and he saw them. They weren't there long marching, maybe 10 minutes before they were politely but firmly asked to leave. They went and collected the prisoner. And he says, me and the dep me and my boss, the sheriff, never really talked about it again. And we published

10:40this account because it's all there. And the first chapter contact was an effu of Deputy Fogas. He says he never told me about this but he said he was a straight-up guy. They came straight out of the armed forces and straight in the police. And he says, have you spoken to his son? We didn't even know he had one Martin. So we got a contact for his son. We spoke to him. And he said, yes, he said, my father told me about this back in the 1950s. And of course, back in the 1950s, Martin, there was no sign of Roswell. It was dead and buried. You couldn't see it on the TV or in a book or in a magazine. It was nonexistent. And so everything about this deputy is in the book. There's these photographs, there's documents. I even got a, from where they were based, Big Spring, Texas. I got a photograph of the sheriff's office from about 1937. I think it was 10 years prior.

11:48And it looked like something out of an old cowboy film Martin. But it's certainly not AI. And as always, I leave people to reach their own judgment, Martin. I don't know if this gentleman saw these things or not. It's just something we came across. Now, Scott wanted to make a TV movie based on this gentleman. And we had a lot of discussions about it. And then everything went dead. And I kept emailing Scott, phoned him, no reply. And eventually, I got a response. It was one of his relatives suddenly he died. So the TV movie never got made. But the full story of Deputy Charles Fogas is in the new book, UFO reflections. Everybody wants a shot. A chance to show the world what they got. Nick Cannon presents Wolland Out Live, the next generation tour, bringing back the

12:51old star cast you know and love and introducing the next generation of rookies, featuring the famous Wolland Out Loast Battles, plus your test to get on stage and be part of the action live across North America. Sign up for pre-sale access now at LiveNation.com. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Exama. So I get how it can still your time. But why let Exama take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyss? Epglyss, lubricism app, LBKZ. A 250-mg per 2-mg leader injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kg, with moderate to severe Exama. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin, or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies, Epglyss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglyss. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. I problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer, worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with

13:52Epglyss. Before starting Epglyss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Pay partnership with Lili. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglyss and visit Epglyss.com, or call 1-800-LiliRX, or 1-800-545-5979. Okay, last meaning wrapped. It's too late to cook. Did I order pokey or a burger? I wore with myself feeling choosy. Ruger, rotino, what a choosy. If fully I could have one of them, I'd be polite. Why can't we have food without the bread? With wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants in one delivery, so you never have to choose. Download the app today. Wonder. Food without the fight. What it does emphasize, Martin, and I keep trying to say to people, shows you what is lying around your old filing cabinets and embassments and attics, garages. I've said this to people hunting stuff for Roswell.

14:55It's all the people at Roswell are all dead. They're all gone. So you're now looking for things they may have left behind, but let it to a loved one. Anything, journal, a diary entry, and that's the thing you're looking for. And it's just like this video tape. If we found that now, who the hell's got a VHS player in it, Martin? That's great. So that's just one of the things I got involved with down the years and is featured in the new book. I won't say anymore. I don't want to have any spoilers. I hope people will be curious enough to go and have a look for themselves. Now, what's the, so this book is called Reflections. So this is what you've been reflecting on all your years of research. Is that kind of the bottom line of it? Yeah, it was due to come out a couple of years back, but I've not been in the best of health. And how it came about, my wife and I have been visiting my daughter and we're driving home and I've just done a couple of books. I'm not writing anymore. That's me finish with books.

15:55And she says, what about all that stuff you've been involved with down the years? What about all that other stuff? So it was my wife's idea, not mine. So I can't put it all in a book, Martin. This one's 500 pages long. And so there are some things that are not in there because it would have ended up as an entire period, not a book. So I look back at some of the things I've been involved in, wanted to be known about like the Eilene Artopsie. There's a bit about that in there. But most of the stuff, I don't think anybody will have ever heard of because it's been... Oh pardon me. I love those cases myself. I love to hear the ones that kind of fell by the wayside, but they're so interesting. There's so many of them. I hear from different people and I haven't been at this anywhere near the amount of time that you have. So there's a lot of them out there that you may have heard of that I hadn't, but when I hear them,

16:57it's pretty incredible some of them. And so I have to ask you this, is there a particular case or two that you would consider the ones that you really look deep into the most incredible, unheard of one? Can we just have an example of something? Yeah, I wouldn't call it necessarily incredible, but it's something that happened not far from where I've lived. I've lived in this area all my life. I mean, Ponty Fract in West Yorkshire. There was a time when this whole area was co-mining, my father worked down the mines all his life, literally. He got to demobbed at the end of the Second World War, went straight down the mines and stayed there until he retired. So we're going back to 1980. I got a telephone call from a lady in a little town just up the road called Normanton. Again, at this point in time, it was a big coal mining industry there. And my colleague and I, Mark Burles, will went to speak to this lady. She called Mrs. Westerman.

18:01She lives not far from me or else she did. I could take you to the house where she lived. It's only a small house in a cold is sack. Beyond the cold is sack it has some fields and some electricity pylons. We had drive past it and not take any notice of it. She said the children were out playing. It was only some of the day to play in a ball game. There was a couple of their friends with them. And it was just after lunch, she was washing the dishes. All of the children were running and said, Mom, there's an airplane crashed in the field. So she went outside and she said, Philippe, it wasn't an airplane. There was this thing on the ground in these fields at the end of the cold is sack. So it was shaped like a Mexican hat. So she got the children, they headed across the field. There used to be a dip there. That's now gone. So at one point they lost sight of it and they come up the other side of the dip. And there was a little fence and they stopped at the

19:05fence and she said, now there's three tall men. All dressed in white moilers out. They had mittens, no gloves mittens. They had something over their face. They were waving something over the ground. It was only small. It wasn't touching the ground. The children, they were determined to climb the fence and take a closer look, but she held them back. And she says, these three men walked to the back of this thing. It rose up into the air, stopped and shot off at an angle, completely noisiously. And she was astonished. And she went home. She thought, this will be on the local TV news tonight. So she sat down to watch it. Not a thing. Okay. It will be in the local newspaper this week. So she bought that. Not a thing. So she even went and knocked on some of her neighbor's doors. And nobody had seen a thing. Which was she found almost as bizarre as what they encountered

20:07Martin. Because it was a busy day. There's a huge, great motorway goes past the town. It's a lovely day. Kids are out playing. People are about... She was married to a call miner. A husband was a call miner. He was at work that day. So these were the type of children I knew. And she was type of lady I've grown up with Martin. And the ball game they played is a made up game. And it's a game I used to play when I was a kid. Wow. And she didn't quite a spaceship or aliens. She just got it. These distinct. And she was bamboozled by the whole affair. The account is published in my book. And we're even interviewed one of the children's friends. He'd gone home for lunch. And he missed all the excitement. It wasn't a happy Martin. But one of the reasons I like it so much is because this is in my backyard. This is not Roswell in New Mexico or

21:08somewhere in Canada or South America. Because the skeptics sometimes would have us believe that these things only happen to a bunch of red necks out in the wilderness. Which you and I know is not true. That's not the case. And down the years I tried to track down these children again. Because obviously they've grown up. Never had any success. Then a few years back I did a podcast. And I talked about this incident. And I got an email from a lady in New Zealand. And she said, I used to live in that town, Normanton. I'm an ex-part. And you didn't mention the lady's name, the family's name. So I said, it's Westerman. That was the lady's name. And she says, my best friend's, Westerman. In Normanton. She's his hang on. And a couple of days later, I get an email from her saying, yeah, I've contacted my friend and she was one of those children.

22:11So she put me in touch with her. And we caught a sponge. She confirmed all the details. I was going to go and see her. Then Colby came along. Oh yeah. And then a couple of years further down the line, I got an email from a gentleman completely out of the blue. And he said, I saw you on such and such a documentary, Philip. I've been locking you up. He says, my friend was one of those kids, those children, at Normanton back in 1980. She wasn't one of Mr. Westerman's children. She would have the children's friends that were there that day. So he gave me a contact details, spoke to her on the phone. And she said, yeah. And she confirmed everything. So we had two of the witnesses now grown up as adults still confirming what happened that day, Martin. And I just love it because I was already convinced that this subject was worthy of my time being spent on it. And something like this just cemented it. And so that's all, again,

23:17all in the book, everything's in there about it. And it's still fascinating to me now, because my wife and I drive past the place on a regular basis. And my neck always cranks to take a look over that and that direction. But you wouldn't know it, Martin. It's just an ordinary street as simple as that. Yeah, it doesn't really matter where it is. I think I was just thinking reflecting as we're going along here of some of the cases I think of in England and the area. And of course, it's always Rendlesham. There's there was one. And then there's the Warmanster thing. Maybe we can mention that a little bit if you wouldn't mind. But before that, I think there was a great case of a small plane going over the English channel with these great big yellow objects. Do you remember that one in particular? Yeah, that was a, I don't know if it's the same one, but there was a military operation called Operation Main Brace. And it involved the Abriol Air Force and the Royal Navy. And they witnessed UFOs and some of the pilots and one of

24:26you were interviewed for television and it's out there, which is rare. It's all black and white footage, but it's all there. But when you mention Rendlesham, again, back in the 1950s, an airbase there, same area called Ariaf Lake and Heath also had UFO sightings that were recorded visibly and on radar. And they scrambled jets to try and intercept it. And it's the same general area where we know now as Rendlesham Forest. That whole area around there has been an unusual area down the decades. It's where they, for example, did early tests on radar in that area. And I think they had not nuclear bombs, but fuses to set off the nuclear bombs tested in that area. And then, of course, we had Rendlesham happen in December 1980, which for those that know about the history

25:30of the area didn't really surprise them. There's so much people are talking about. There's still things going on there. Oh, absolutely. And again, in my book, UFO reflections, there is an interview with, at the time, he hadn't spoken. He's from the airbase there. He was a serving US military, Mr Long Air Oaks. I won't go into details, but he's featured in the book. And I've got a tip off that he'd never spoken. And I got a contact with him. And he was more than happy to speak. That's a way of you. When he came out of the, the Air Force, he went into the police. And he was a specialist in dealing with gangs. And he said, I just got on my life, Philippa. I haven't hidden it. I haven't kept quiet for any particular reason. I've just got a wife and family and a job. So Rendlesham still carries on. It's a fascinating case, whichever way you want to look at it. My own. That's right. I'm going to have to ask you off here about that guy. I'd love to have

26:32that guy on my show. Everybody wants a shot. A chance to show the world what they got. Live across North America. Sign up for pre-sale access now at LiveNation.com. Okay, last meeting wrapped. It's too late to cook. Should I order polka or a burger? At war with myself feeling choosy. Ruger or tuna what a doozy. If fully I could have one of them every bite. Why can't we have food without the bread? With wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants in one delivery so you never have to choose. Download the app today. Wonder. Food without the fight.

27:34Hi, I'm Gus. I'm a dog in an expert in speed. So when it comes to fast internet, I know what I'm talking about. That's why I recommend optimum fiber-powered internet. It has fast and reliable internet speeds starting at only $30 a month with a five-year price lock. So how can you fetch such an amazing deal by calling 8669 optimum or visiting optimum.com to switch? That's 8669 optimum. Speaking of fetch, that's my cue. Terms apply. See optimum.com for details. So the case I was thinking about Philip is the 2007 Aldenie. Oh yes. UFO signing word. Yeah, for those that don't know what Aldenie is off the South coast of the UK. We have what's called the Channel Islands. A group of little islands. Aldenie is one of them. And it's only a short flight from the mainland. And the pilot can't remember his name for the life in men. I've met him again. Oh yes. Captain Ray Boyer. Ray Boyer. That's it. He was a civilian pilot. He's a small aircraft with a number of passengers

28:39they were heading to Aldenie. It must have been a row. It flown a thousand times Martin. It probably could do it with his eyes closed. Yeah. When in the distance they observe this huge, huge yellow thing across the sky. And Captain Boyer's main concern was for the safety of his passengers. And he radioed this in even because this wasn't a closed cockpit. So the passengers were open behind him. And even some of the passengers could see it out of the cockpit windows. And it was also tracked on local radar. I met Captain Ray Boyer four or five years ago. Maybe a little bit longer. We were doing a TV documentary together. And again, he was completely vexed by Martin. He was a long experience as a private pilot. He said,

29:42I've seen everything you can think of in the sky, Philippe. But what that was, you tell me. I remember them just saying that they interviewed the passengers too. And they were saying it was just massive. This is just a, I'm putting up here what they explained it to look like. But sort of cigar shaped but just massive. That was huge. It was absolutely huge. I don't think that's a bad representation of it. It's always difficult to get one that's a 100% accurate. Like I say, we're met and we stayed overnight in the same hotel I had dinner with Captain Boyer. I couldn't remember his name. I'm hopeless at remembering names, Martin. I might forget yours before we're done. But nice guy, no interest in the subject before. Certainly, I'm probably not even afterwards. And he just showed us what reported it. What can I do? I don't. But his main concern was that the safety of his passengers, simple as that. I feel like the people that

30:45with the statement you just said, not interested in before, not really interested after, there are people that I've interviewed over the years. Like for instance, one comes to mind as Jonathan Wygen had an encounter in Peru in 1997. And he only talked about it on my show and two other shows ever. And he could care about nothing about anything else, UFO related. He just said it was a traumatic experience for him. He talks about it. If you can get him to talk about it. And then he's done with it. When I told him, hey, David, there's a guy named David Russian. I'm in Washington now. And this guy's putting this in front of, he goes, I don't care. I don't know who he is. And he said, he may want to contact you. I was getting a connection. So to see if he could look into it, which he did. David Russia actually did look into it and verified that this incident did happen. But he could care less. Me, those people in my opinion are very credible because they had their one and done. They don't want any.

31:51It kind of reminds me of my late father, Martin. He saw a lot of, let many of that, he saw a lot of active service during the Second World War. He fought throughout the war. I never got back home. And they got wounded in action. Fortunately, not serious. It's a strapped no wound on the back of his leg. And archetypical, would never talk about it. I used to have his medals on my leather jacket when I had a motorbike. But it wasn't until he's twilight of his life that he then started to talk about some of his exploits during the Second World War. And it kind of reminds me some time of certain UFO witnesses that have this throughout their life. I haven't made a big deal out of it. Maybe only told a couple of clothes family friends. Make me not even them. But then eventually,

32:52they get to the stage in their life. I don't care anymore. I'm going to speak to a couple of people. I don't care whether they believe me or not. Of course, one of those gentlemen was one that you introduced me to. It was Calvin Parker from Pascal Gula. And I was just watching him again on the TV the other night. But he couldn't care less much. And if people didn't believe him, he said, if you call me a liar, Philip, that's a different thing. And the one he was a bit young ago, he might have taken an umbrage to that. But he said, I don't care if they don't believe me. But please don't call me a liar because I'm not. And again, some of the Pascal Gula things that in the new book, UFO reflections. And it was a great man. Lovely man. I believe him wholeheartedly. I've just for those who don't know Calvin Parker. And I got to know him pretty well. I published

33:52two of his books, which speak every week, at least once a week on Skype, Martin. Then there be emails and so on. And of course, Calvin got diagnosed with terminal cancer. It was kidney cancer. And he didn't have that long to live. And his mom was in a nursing home. And suddenly she got to the stage with her illness. She couldn't even recognize him. Bernie, my Calvin's dying himself. But on a Friday evening, he would take his guitar down to the nursing home and sing songs for the patients there. And he was dying himself. Wow. But he'd go down there and sing songs for him. And I got a couple of recordings of some of his songs. They're not bad. But he said to his wife, wait, don't let Philip know about this. Because he'll pull it out Facebook. And I wouldn't. Not without his permission, but he had a great sense of humor. I spoke to him

34:58two or three days before he died. Yeah. And I said, you're not allowed to die. He says, why? So because Wayne, I wasn't giving you permission yet. So we managed to laugh. I told him I loved him. And sadly, he's no longer with us. But it was a wonderful fella. He really was. And didn't you get his hat? Yeah. Got his got his fishing hat and he signed it. And the fishing. So just a little backstory. I have to just sell this little backstory here. And I was so glad that connection just worked out so well. I'm going to say back in around 2013 or 14. I had a blogger at the time. I have one now really good Charles Saliar is a really great blogger. But I had Michael Lauk. I used to be my blogger and he wrote an account of the Pasca Gula incident. And just a nice blog. So I received an email and the email in the email address was something like

35:58gone fishing or something like that. And so he said, very good account of what actually happened. I appreciate the writing. And then signed Calvin Parker. And so I wrote back to him and I said, this isn't the Calvin Parker. Is it? And he said, yes. And he hadn't done anything for something like 20 or 30 years. He hadn't talked about it. So I said, is there any way you'd be willing to come on the show and talk about it? And he said, yes. And he was a gentleman from day one. I've talked him on the phone first. And then he was on the show. And he was always just so kind. I can hear him talk. I can hear his accent. And what a sense of humor. Oh my goodness. Oh, yes. I got to meet him in Phoenix. And when he did a talk there at the International UFO Congress and just hilarious. He had people cracking up. He was just hilarious. And the folks are rough of you two together. Yeah. Yeah. We had dinner. I think almost every night together with him and why not and myself and really deep and long conversations. Really. He's a very, the thing that people

37:07misread about Calvin. A lot of people thought he was a simple man and he's so far away from being a simple man. Definitely. He also designed infrastructure for airports all over the country and had a construction company. He had a big business and he was smart guy. He was a real smart guy. Yeah. You might not have had an education at school and college, but that doesn't make he dumb because he was far from it. He said to me one day, I can do calculus, Philip. Can you? I said, I don't even know what it is, Calvin. Yes. It was the work that he did. He would have to be able to do that. Yeah. And he said he sometimes he went to the local college there and did a few talks about construction and things like that. But it was an all-around guy. It's stories about everything. Yeah. Martin, he would only tell you certain things when he wanted to because it was around about 2017. I was trying to find him and I contacted a lot of people. There had no idea what I was talking

38:09about some of them, but of course I contacted you and you gave me his contact details. Yeah. I emailed him. He replied, I got a phone number for him and it was quite clear on the phone that he wasn't going to tell me anything. He was very polite. Yeah. Being the end, me, him and Wayne at persuaded him to tell a story in full for the first time and we publish it accordingly. And I had to write a contract Martin where I wasn't allowed to change a thing. Not even the Sponning Mistakes. Wow. And I said I agreed to that. Yeah. And I won't publish anything Kelvin until you give me the go ahead. So his first book came about and he said, oh, we should have done it a long time ago, Philip, because then he opened up and the story got bigger and we found more people and we found more doctors. That's right. Tation and so on. So again, I got got involved in doing some work with that too. Yeah. I mean, I have to just

39:15reflect on something real quickly is because there's a lot of people that are new that are watching or possibly watching the show or listening to the show. It's Pascagula incident. I want to say 1973. What you know, okay. So there was Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker and they just started Calvin just started working at this. Maybe you can tell the nut shell better than I can. Was it a shipyard? Yeah. It was a shipyard. It was that as well. Charlie had got him the job. Charlie was a foreman. And this was Calvin's first day working. It wasn't from this area. It was from miles away. But both of their families are grown up together. Calvin must have been a place called Lorrowly Mississippi. Calvin knew Charlie's son. Eddie, they were the same age. And Calvin was getting married and he wanted a steady job. It was working all kinds of hours. So he got a job in the shipyard. The idea was it would stay at Charlie's Monday to Friday,

40:18pay him some money for his lodgings and then go home on a weekend. And he was getting married to follow him on to November. Hi, I'm Gus. I'm a dog in an expert in speed. So when it comes to fast internet, I know what I'm talking about. That's why I recommend optimum fiber powered internet. It has fast and reliable internet speeds starting at only $30 a month with a five year price lock. So how can you fetch such an amazing deal by calling 8669 optimum or visiting optimum.com to switch. That's 8669 optimum.

41:21Speaking of fetch, that's my cue. Terms apply. See optimum.com for details. There's nothing like being in the stands cheering on your favorite team. Game time is your hack to unlocking amazing tickets in just a few taps. It's easy to use and the game time guarantee means you can trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets at the best price. Fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. Take the guesswork out of buying sports tickets with game time. Download the game time app and create an account to start searching for tickets to upcoming games and events. So the one thing both guys enjoy was fishing. So Calvin's first day at work. The dry heat driving home. We got a brown new, I think you said a Ford Rambler bright yellow. And Charlie says you want to go fishing tonight son. Oh yeah great. So they are some dinner and pack the gear, bought some bait on the way. Charlie's giving him directions and they go down the Pasco

42:23Gola River, pack the car up. They're fishing off an old pier. When I pressed all these blue lights come from behind them. The pasta no entry sign at one point. Calvin thought, oh it must be the police. We're going to get arrested. And of course they turn around. It's not the police. It's a big oval shape that's descending. Yeah. These three creatures emerge. Two gets older. Calvin, one older with Charlie, take them on board. And various things happen during that time that then put back on the pier. This thing is gone. So they debate what to do. And they come to the conclusion they're not going to tell anyone. They're thinking when nuts, Calvin's getting married. He didn't want his father in law to know about this. He said that he would never let me marry there. So they set off. It comes and said it took him about 20 attempts to start the car, which was unheard of. It was brand new. And as they're heading home, it was Charlie who had a change

43:31of heart. He said, we've got to tell somebody in authority. What if these things come back and do this to somebody else? What if it's an invasion? So Calvin agreed that he said, on the no circumstances that I'm going to tell anybody what happened to me. I'll say I saw this thing and I saw the creatures come out and I said, I'll say I passed out. Because he was off his head basically, it was that scared. So Charlie agreed they pulled in a local convenience store to use the paid phone. The first of all phone, Keesler Air Force Base, it's about 30 miles away. They said, we're not interested. Phone the local authorities. They phone them. And it's the sheriff's department. Sheriff's department sent a car out to escort them in back into town. They were both interviewed by Sheriff Fred Diamond and his deputies separately. And we have one of those recordings. We have Charles Hicks in statement that night. They were then put in a room together

44:37that one of the deputies came in and he fiddles with the desk. And I'm just going to go get some coffee guys. It won't be a minute. Off he goes. Comes back five or six minutes later. Again, fiddles with this desk. Take something out. Charlie and Calvin didn't know but there was a a tape recorder running. And he took the tape. He went outside. They played it to the sheriff diamond and so on. Thinking, we'll have them now. These two red necks will be laughing and joking. And of course, that's not the case. Calvin was crawling up the wall. And again, we have that recording and a transcript from it and everything. So that changed the attitude of the sheriff and his deputies. And he said, get yourself off home. There's nothing we can do. They get up the next morning, go to work. And they noticed there's a few extra cars in the parking lot. And they haven't been there that long. There's someone to the boss's office. The sheriff is there.

45:37I think they showed it. I think they've got the lawyer there. And the boss said, what the hell have you two been doing? He said, the phone won't stop ringing. I've got journalist outside. So they told him, other story was out. And the rest of they say is history, Martin. I think that the part about the tape, we probably wouldn't even know about this case if it wasn't for the tape. It's one of the, it's one of within 36 hours. Dr. Jail and Hianek was on site. Along with Dr. James Harder and Dr. Hianek went on the record and said, one of the things that convinced him of the authenticity of these two gentlemen was what was known as the secret tape. He listened to it. He was played by the sheriff. Charlie and Calvin at that point still didn't know it. It existed. They had no idea. They were then shuffled off the next day to the hospital. They were given the all clear there. And then the sheriff took them to Keesler Air Force Base

46:43because somebody had mentioned radiation. And Calvin said, when they got there, they're all waiting in the hazmat suits. And they wave the guy encounters over us and everything's fine. But then said, why don't you come in, gentlemen and tell us what happened last night? Which is ironic because then phone Keesler Air Force Base had told to get lost. So he did, he went in and Calvin said there were a lot of people in there and they told him what happened. Calvin was now sticking to the story that he passed out and he kept that story up for decades. So Charlie was doing most of the talking. And again, they didn't know how they were recording much and they had a stenographer. And so we have a complete transcript of the discussion there. That runs to about 17 pages. And we have all the names of all the people that were there. And yeah, so fascinating. And

47:44since then, I brought Dr. Scott on board, Irene, because we were getting new witnesses. Yes. And they were in the states. And yes, I've found a few of them, but is this strange sounding fella from across the Atlantic? I worked with Irene and published a couple of books on said, give her a common board. You can interview these people and hey, Presto, and I think today, Martin, she's interviewed over 50 people. Amazing. See, when like you mentioned early on in this interview, that what if you have something a file somewhere tucked away or it's the same thing when, and a lot of times when I bring up the Pasca Gould incident when someone will say to me, why do you talk about all cases? And one of the reasons is because a lot of times, all of a sudden, someone hears about it the first time. And didn't my uncle say something about that or about that time? And so things get uncovered still after all this time.

48:46Oh, wait, that's happened on a regular basis. It's not well on bucket. I was contacted by a guy called Jason and he said, my grandfather, I worked in local television and he worked with Charlie and Calvin because they made their own documentary called Incontact. And you can find a very poor copy of it on YouTube, but they had all the masters of it. And he said, not only that, they did a TV show for the local television. And so you've got Charlie and Calvin in the studio with this presenter being questioned, nobody in his dog has seen that marty. We were given a first class copy. Then I was contacted by a gentleman called Mr Van Pain. Mr Pain's getting old, but he still works as a journalist. And he said, back in 1973, I was just starting as a photo journalist locally in that area. And Charlie and Calvin could never find out

49:54how the story leaked out. Calvin blamed Charlie. Charlie said it wasn't me. So then they blame the sheriff. The sheriff said it wasn't me. Anyway, Mr Van Pain said, I got a phone call that night from someone I knew in the sheriff's office. And they told me about what happened to Charlie and Calvin. But by this time they'd gone home. So he said, I went to the police station, sorry, the sheriff's department the next morning. And was told they weren't there. They were up the singing river hospital. So he says, I went to the singing river hospital. Well, a time I got there, they'd gone. I was informed that gone to Keesler Air Force Base. So he said, I drove to Keesler Air Force Base and waited outside. And when Charlie and Calvin came out, he got the first ever interview with them on camera. And they would only speak to him with their backs to the camera so people couldn't

50:54see their faces. So you have him in the middle and Charlie and Calvin and he's chatting away to him. And he said, I'm by the way, I still have the original 16 millimeter film. And I had it digitized. Would you like a copy? And there's more on the film, the interview with other people as well. But so that is the first recording ever of Charlie and Calvin. And that has just been sat and gathered in dust in his office. So it shows that there's more information out there Martin. That's why we talk about these things. I was out in, I think it was, may have been Phoenix again. Yes, it was Phoenix, where Calvin was there and also Jay Allen Heineck's son Paul Heineck was there as well. And they were hanging out together and I said, Hey, can I interview you two together? And they said, yeah, sure, fine. So anyway, the fun thing was that Paul took the phone call from Calvin when

51:57Calvin called to talk to his father. And his father was out. So Calvin, so Paul got up on a stool and wrote on the chalkboard. Okay, call Calvin in this number. And so they had that connection, which I thought was really fun. Everybody wants a shot. A chance to show the world what they got. Plus your test to get on stage and be part of the action live across North America. Sign up for pre-sale access now at livenation.com. Hi, I'm Gus. I'm a dog and an expert in speed. So when it comes to fast internet, I know what I'm talking about. That's why I recommend optimum fiber powered internet. It has fast and reliable internet speeds starting at only $30 a month with a five-year

52:57price lock. So how can you fetch such an amazing deal by calling 8669 optimum or visiting optimum.com to switch? That's 8669 optimum. Speaking of fetch, that's my cue. Terms apply, see optimum.com for details. There's nothing like being in the stands cheering on your favorite team. Game time is your hack to unlocking amazing tickets in just a few taps. It's easy to use and the game time guarantee means you can trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets at the best price. Fees are always included, so what you see is what you pay. Take the guesswork out of buying sports tickets with game time. Download the game time app and create an account to start searching for tickets to upcoming games and events. Yeah, I'm often wondered. I recently watched the Spielberg film Displosion Day. Yep. And of course, Hainek was in Pascagula in 1973. A few years later, he's working as a consultant on closing counters for Spielberg. I often wondered if he ever told Spielberg about

54:05what happened in Pascagula because it's alleged that it became an ex-favorite case. Wow. And of course, the tour was a turning point for him. That was a turning point for him, yes. And he's asked Paul, what would you father think of it today? He said, all these new witnesses and various other things coming out. We'd be absolutely convinced. He said he was convinced anyway. Yeah. So it's just a little curious thing that's in my mind. I wonder if he ever discussed it with him. There's no way we'll ever find out. Yeah. But again, it's a fascinating case. There's more information out there that I am certain and there's more witnesses. And they can always get in touch. We talked about Roswell. No one being alive at this point. And 73, the clock's ticking away too on witnesses. So hopefully if they're out there, someone's going to catch the story and decide they want to talk about it finally. I mean,

55:06it would be great. And the very, very fine that you and Dr. Scott did was really very good. I mean, I just give an example. We know the exact location where Charlie and Calvin were on the river. Yes. Some of the other witnesses we've spoken to, one gentleman called Mr. Rusty Anderson, he was actually driving over the bridge, which Charlie and Calvin could see. And he installed these lights. And then right opposite was the shipyard. I'm out of the gentleman called Mr. Lewis Lee. It was a crane operator. And he was working that night. And he said, when I got in my cab, which is about 10 or 12 feet off the ground, I could see this darn thing out over the river. And then we had another lady to the right, about a mile away called Pamela Rayleigh Eves. She said, put in the children to bed. She went to close the bedroom curtains. And our house looks out on the river. And she said,

56:06this blue thing up the river. So we can pretty much triangulate where this thing was. And we've got people all around the area, seeing it. The final thing was a little document, a mini documentary was made by one of the local journalists called Karen Nelson. She interviewed Calvin, and whilst she was interviewing him, she filmed a few minutes. She published it online. And then so that interview, that little documentary was taken and put on YouTube. And I'm reading the comments underneath it, Martin. And there were a lot. And then there's one that Carla stuck out. It said, my mum and dad were on the opposite side of the river that night. They too saw the UFO. So I left a message. This person got in touch. It was a young lady. I said, kind of, we speak to your mum and dad. She said, I will ask. And she came back to, yeah, it's Gerry and Maria Blair. Here's the telephone number.

57:08So I found them. And they said, yeah, we were on the opposite side of the river that night. I then passed this on to Dr Scott. And she did most of the interview, because she was in the States. It just made sense. And there's a big long story to Mr and Mrs. Blair. And again, it's mentioned in my new UFO reflections. Note spoilers here. I'll allow people to read it for themselves. But fascinating, Martin, had I not read that comment, we probably never heard of Mr and Mrs. Blair. Gerry has since passed away. But fortunately, we spoke to him beforehand. We've had a little video of him that his wife Maria did on her phone. And fascinating stuff, Martin. All thanks to you. Put him in touch with Calvin Barker. Right. It was the right thing to do. And it worked out beautifully. Yeah. I remember I had interviewed Robert Powell about the Nimitz case. And there was a comment

58:16under that from someone named Kevin Day. And that's the first time he had never talked about it. And now he's been out there a long time about it. But it's funny how you can pick up the comments. It's good to read them. I usually don't read them. But but anyway, this has been wonderful, again, as always. And hold your book up once if you would. And I will put that. Yeah, it's UFO reflections. 549 pages or something like that. Yes, it's a water. It's out in paperback, hardback, Kindle and audio book. You don't have to buy them all. Just one would be nice. And hopefully you'll find something of interest in it. I'm sure you will. Yep. And your wife made you do it. That's what wives do, isn't it, Martin? That's right. It's the port. So thank you so much, I spend wonderful as always. Guys, my pleasure, Martin. Thank you. All right. Take care. Hi, I'm Gus. I'm a dog in an expert in speed. So when it comes to fast internet,

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