Your Blood Tests Are “Normal”… So Why Do You Feel So Bad? Plus a New GLP-1 Warning

0:00When was the last time that you had a blood test, where the results normal, did you have a little up or down in some of the numbers? Well, on today's episode of the Intuition Catch, we chat what is normal versus what is optimal on your blood test results, and some of the numbers that you really should be aiming for. Hi, I'm Leanne Ward. And I'm Tisey Barrel. And together we bring you the Nutrition Catch, the weekly podcast that keeps you up to date on everything that you need to know in the world of nutrition. Today, as well as blood tests, we have a new study that deep dives in nutrient dangers associated with GLP1 use. We have a new serial top art that a listener sent in for us to review, and our listener question is all about takeaways. But to kick us off today, Suzy, we are chatting blood tests, because you saw an interesting post, I think linked to longevity online, and I did a swipe across post a couple of weeks ago, which gained quite a lot of traction, because people are really interested in this. So we'll start off the segment by saying that we are not doctors, and you should always get medical advice.

1:00But as clinical dietitians, we do interpret some of these results for our clients, and we do often send them back to have further conversations with their doctors, or sometimes say, all right, now we want you to go back and get this additional test, because this alone in isolation doesn't really give us a full picture. So it is worth always having what we like to call a multi-disciplinary team, you know, sort of in your corner at all times, looking at for a broad range of things, not just one specific result on a very specific blood test, because often women are always told you're fine, everything's normal, and you know, you see it time and time again, and they just they feel awful, and they know in themselves, like this isn't normal, I shouldn't be feeling this way, or I'm doing the same thing I was doing 12 months ago, yet I feel absolutely awful doing it, like something is off. So we thought we'd bring to the segment the top five or so blood markers that we tend to see for busy women. So today we're going to cover glucose, iron, vitamin D, lipid, thyroid, and estrogen.

2:01And I think they're probably the biggest ones that busy women should be getting tested in my opinion once a year. So if you are listening and you haven't had a blood, or you literally can't remember the last time you had a blood test, it's probably time to pop off to the doctor and go and get some of these things checked, because you know, a lot of people are not even symptomatic, you know, some of these ranges might be out of range, and you don't really have any symptoms yet. So it is always a really good idea to get a regular blood test once a year, because then you know what your baseline is. So if some of these markers start moving too high or too low, you'll know if that is a bit different compared to your normal baseline. So the first one is what we call fasting glucose, and along with that goes HBA1C, which is a measure or marker of your three monthly average of your glucose. So in Australia, a normal fasting glucose on a blood test is about 3.6 to 5.4 millimoles a litre. Anything above 5.5 is sort of that impaired glucose sort of pre-diabetes, and anything

3:02over 7 millimoles a litre is considered, you know, diabetes at Australia. So technically, if you were to see 5.4 on your fasting glucose, this is still considered normal. But Susie and I work with a lot of busy women who are trying to lose weight, who might have some metabolic insufficiency, and if we saw something like that on a blood test, we wouldn't immediately figure out, we wouldn't immediately say, all right, you need to medication. But we would kind of have a think about it and say, all right, from a metabolic health perspective, you know, anything above sort of that 5.3, 5.4 is starting to creep up there, right? And then in line, we'd look at HBA1C as well. So is that HBA1C over time creeping up? Has that gone from 5.1 to perhaps 5.4 or 5.7 now? And is that creeping up? Because things like this alongside like a waist measurement and also looking at, you know, your muscle mass, your fat mass and that distribution may suggest things like early insulin resistance or pre-diabetes, which for a lot of, you know, clients in Australia, they're not really

4:05getting diagnosed with these things until they're full-blown diabetic. So that's the first one. The next one we see a lot is linked to eye and particularly ferritin. So in Australia, with our labs, ferritin is generally about 15 to 150. So that is a very, very wide range. And I often see women who come back with a blood test with a ferritin of like 16 or 17, and they're like, oh no, the doctor said that is fine. And technically it is within range, technically it is normal. But if a menstruating woman had a ferritin level that low, they are going to feel so much better once their ferritin is honestly above like at least 50, if not 70 or 80 or close to 100, particularly if they are someone who is postpartum, they are actually symptomatic like they're quite fatigue, they're training heavily, and they menstruate regularly because that ferritin level can, you know, keep dropping over time as well. So often I see that a lot where women are like, I'm just exhausted and their ferritin is so low, but technically it's normal.

5:08And alongside that fatigue, often we might see, you know, their hair falling out, really poor, exercise tolerance, you know, finding that they're breathing a lot heavier, fatigue, brain fog, all of those things can occur as your hemoglobin starts to drop. So this is a really common one where often we're told that you're fine, but actually having an optimal result, i.e. above sort of that 50 to 70, you're going to feel so much better from a symptom perspective and an energy perspective. Now the next one's vitamin D, and we're quite lucky here in Australia that it is quite, well, where I live anyway in Brisbane in Queens that it can get quite hot, particularly in summer, but coming out of the winter months, I think it's something like 30% of Australians have a vitamin D deficiency. So a deficiency in Australia is less than 50 on your blood test, and for an adequate bone health from the endocrine society of Australia and osteoporosis society of Australia, we are looking for adequate bone health over 50. However, a lot of practitioners actually consider 75 to 100 to be the optimal level when

6:09we're talking about bone density, muscle strength and immune health as well, but often, you know, women are sitting in that low 50, so again, technically not insufficient, but not necessarily ideal either, particularly in menopausal women where bone density becomes even more important. So that's where I'd really be asking for a copy of your blood test, having a look at that vitamin D, and really seeing if you can get your levels up over that, you know, 75 closer to that 100 range, again, from a bone health perspective, it's going to be for most healthy women a lot more ideal. Now, I've also been assuming a sector to do estrogen and thyroid, but in terms of lipid, again, cholesterol levels, a lot of my clients have said, you know, my cholesterol's fine, but really as dietitians, what we're taking a closer look at, LDL, HDL, and triglyceride. So your LDL is your, quote, unquote, your bad cholesterol, your HDL is, quote, unquote, your good cholesterol. So LDL, ideally, we want less than three, HDL, we want more than one, but honestly, more

7:13than about 1.3 ideally in women, and triglycerides, we often want to see under two. But again, this reflects your risk factors. You know, do you have a family history of high cholesterol? Have you had, you know, parents with a heart attack? Have you had other issues, or are you generally well and healthy? You've had no sort of cardiac issues in your family. Do you also have insulin resistance or diabetes? So context matters when we're looking at some of these numbers as well. Do you have a genetic family history of high cholesterol? All of these sorts of things matter, but actually looking further than just total cholesterol is really, really important for a lot of women as well. All right, so is in you wanted to chat through estrogen because that's an important one for a lot of women as we start getting over that kind of late 30s, 40s, isn't it? It is, but you're better than I. I'm not going to do the numbers because I'd have to normally interpret blood test results from a person that should numbers. I don't memorize all the reference ranges. But I think the main messages I wanted to get across was it's not that one off so often. And I think it's because JPs are pressed for time.

8:15And sometimes we're seeing JPs that maybe we see you just occasionally. They're not actually someone that we've been invested with our health. Then you might go to medical center or we're looking for a script. And so they're just all they're doing is scanning and looking for abnormal results. Whereas a lot of these variables, they track over time, particularly things like glucose, vitamin D, iron, absolutely. You know, I had a breastfeeding mum who had low ferritin. And as soon as you've got low ferritin, even if it's within normal range, if it's on the low stage, you will feel like you've been hit by a vast. It is really hard to exercise activities of normal living and encouraging busy months to oral supplement iron when their ferritin is so low. It's never going to get back to normal ranges. So I think it's more really track yourself over time. Just because a doctor says it's fine, doesn't mean it is particularly if you're exhibiting symptoms. The ones I constantly say are the low ferritin level and your iron might be normal, but your ferritin or stored is a low. Certainly I set with thyroid. I find that doctors can be, you know,

9:18I don't want to say blase, but unless it's really clinical, they won't act. Whereas if you can be, you know, one point of it being high or low, you often need to act. I've just had a blood test come through now. And the doctor said that it's normal and I've actually looked at the bloods and it's not. It's really out of whack and I would be looking for a second opinion on it. I think for women listening who are in their 40s and 50s, what you're looking for is declining usage and over time. So you don't have to wait till you literally have none in your body to act. And of course, you have to take into account a contraception and time of month and all those things. But ultimately, if your levels are dropping over time, that is a sign that you are in peri. Same as we've seen before, if your LDL cholesterol is creeping up, that indeed if you're in your 40s and 50s is certainly a sign you're in peri and moving towards menopause. And that's the time to act with all of those things. Because increasing LDL is, is can be simply suggestive of increased inflammation in the body. There are certainly a whole range of dietary things and strategies we can do to help reduce that. That might be a time to introduce plant steriles into your diet. And in the case of estrogen, if you are exhibiting symptoms

10:19and even if you're not, you know, we know there's beneficial outcomes for women to be optimizing estrogen levels from a skin health perspective, from a bone health perspective. These are all signs it's time to act. And so I would be looking for declines over time. If your estrogen is reducing year on year hour, I would be acting and it's not enough. Because even myself, I remember going to the doctor and 12 months prior being told my estrogen was fine and then going to a gynecologist a year later and telling me that I literally was in menopause. Like that, it didn't just drop overnight, but I had a doctor who wasn't interpreting it over time. She was just looking at, it was still normal. And of course, the amuse of all the time with glucose. You can see people consistently going from a four million mile per liter fasting glucose, up to 4.8, up to 5.2, and no one says anything. Well, that's increasing year on the way to diabetes. You don't want to wait till you've got diabetes to act. So I would be looking if your glucose is increasing year and year out, there are issues there with your insulin and you want to be managing it. And certainly your HBA1C.

11:19If it's on the high end of normal, I would not be happy. You don't want a high HBA. You want low when it comes to aging because high glucose levels, even if they're still in a normal range, are doing damage to yourself. That's the aging process. That's glucose metabolism. That's insulin action. So these are the ones you want to track over time. And even now, get out your old blood test and see, are these levels of things like glucose of your thyroid hormones, of your estrogen? Are they changing over time? That is a sign to act when it comes to optimal aging. And I have no doubt, Leanne, in future years, there will be more and more of these kind of longevity clinics which are looking at preventative health, not just the old school medicine, which is acting when people are sick. It's prevention now when it comes to health and longevity. So everyone listening, I want you to dig out all your bloods, take a look at those things. And if your glucose is increasing, if your cholesterol is increasing, even if it's still normal, the women particularly in your 40s and 50s, it's time to act now, before it becomes so bad that it's much, much harder to get down. So I think we've actually ever discussed these,

12:21but I thought it was a really worthwhile discussion. I'm saying it along line. You've done it as well. And these are the ones that I'm particularly interested in. Certainly I am because I think if you're feeling not great, get your eye back up because then you'll be in a better position to exercise. Glucose thyroid certainly needs action if it's higher on the low end. And estrogen for women going through those years at three to keep an eye on. And there's more. But yeah, you can chaff it over time and you can see the increases. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's really important to reiterate, this wasn't a segment to battery peas. They're so busy. They see so many people every single day. We're just saying that at some point, you have to take your health into your own hands. You have to be aware of your numbers. As Susie said, get out, you're on blood tests, and actually book a longer appointment with your GP. I know that my GP is wonderful, but her standard appointment is like 10 or 15 minutes, but she does offer a longer consultation if you actually want to have a chat about some of these things. So sometimes the onus does come back on us. We can't just say, oh, well, my GP said it was fine. It is really important to actually be aware

13:22of some of these numbers. And I'll quickly run through thyroid because as you said, Susie, it is really, really important. And often what we're looking at on blood tests is the TSH and the free T4. But with the TSH, that's a really important one because most Australian labs, I've just looked this up. I don't know these numbers off the top of my head, Susie. So if anyone thinks I do, I don't. I've got to say she's a mech who, how I'm pretty impressive is she knowing all the numbers? God, I couldn't remember any of them. I've just looked this up. TSH, the reference range in Australia is 0.4 to 4. And that is sometimes up to 4.5. So technically, a TSH of 3.8 is generally considered quite normal. But if you aren't linked in with an endocrinologist, you're seeing a fertility specialist, often these specialists prefer to see numbers between 1 to 2.5. We don't want too low, we don't want too high. Particularly if you are somebody who was trying to conceive, you're in paramedicals, you're in menopause, or you're quite symptomatic. And from a thyroid perspective, a lot of the symptoms that we see women present

14:22with are difficulty losing weight or weight gain, fatigue, constipation, or just a really low mood as well. So a lot of times we're told, oh, your thyroid is fine, technically yes, but is it optimal? Not always. So these are just some of the things to be aware of. You might be told that it's fine, but fine is very different to optimal. And I don't know about you, Susie, but most of us actually prefer optimal. So it is a really good, I guess, segmental discussion to just say, all right, we need to have a little bit of onus here. And we need to be aware of some of these numbers and sort of have an extra conversation with doctors, perhaps via the specialists who will give us a little bit more time in the room and have a chat about some of these numbers. And for some of these things, they actually do require specialists, not just general GPs. If you're really worried about your thyroid function, perhaps it's time to get a referral and go and see endocrinologist. Sometimes, you know, GPs aren't actually the best people to be interpreting and giving additional things for some of these numbers. Sometimes that is up to more so a specialist. So I do think it is a really important.

15:23Well, I think it's more, I think I'm about to the GP conversation. I think it's more the difference between sort of, what's the word for it, like a cute medicine? This is preventative, like, what is the word I'm going to call preventative health? Yeah, preventative health, yeah. Holistic health, I think, I don't know because I think that you can go to a specialist and have exactly the same feedback. You know, I can send people to endos in their life, it's normal. You've got to have a medical professionals who's interested in preventative type of health. And there's more and more of those integrative clinics popping up where they're looking at optimizing health versus just checking that you're not clinical. So keeping one that medical training is very much, was a clinical focus. When people are sick, there's an issue when people aren't well. Whereas there's a shift now to that more, you know, integrative health professional, longevity clinics, preventive medicine. That's the ones who are going to have a special eye for that versus, you know, acute doctors who are looking for issues and basically to fix them because that's a very traditional medical model. So you've sort of got to get yourself to the right person,

16:25I would say, because I've had clients, you know, it's not bagging out medical doctors by any means, same with dietitians. You're going to get dietitians who are better at more acute clinical conditions versus preventative health. But I think that it is, you want someone who has that background and interest rather than there's a problem that's fixed set, you've got to sort of research and be across people who have that interest. And there's more and more of them popping up everywhere. Because you've got, oh, specialists are so expensive, like you've got to make sure you're actually getting value. But how much? They're hundreds and hundreds of dollars. So you've got to be at the right person. Some of those integrative clinics, so I think it is important if you do go to one that it actually does have a proper medical professional in there. It's not just like a holistic woo-woo, you know, so and so because, you know, there are a lot of different specialties who are calling themselves doctors who aren't technically medical doctors, right? Like I think osteopaths and chiroids can call themselves doctors, but they're not actual medical doctors. So just be aware of that as well. If you're going for some medical advice, make sure you are seeing a medical doctor. Because I do really think that that science

17:26and that evidence-based background is still very, very important. But I think a lot of these integrative clinics aren't necessarily run by medical doctors. And in my opinion, that is riskier than moving outside of a GP, in my opinion. True, I was looking at, there was sort of one of these doctors online who, you know, they seemed to know everything. And then when I looked, it was a car-affractor. And I was like, I think you're supposed to stick more to backs, really, like, so definitely check. You want a medical doctor who's a medical training 100%. And that's a good thing about some of those sort of online people like Dr. Mary Claire Hubbard, they're very well-qualified. So always certainly do a little bit of a check there. All right, another medical topic that to go to our fancy was there was some data that came out just this week, actually, looking at gel P1 medications. And I know we've talked about this several times recently, but the reason we are talking about it is a lot of people are using them, because suddenly, they've become readily available. It's moved past those in pick now. You've got access, ready access to Manjara, Bagovi, and people are like, well, less scared.

18:27I see medical professionals openly prescribing them for weight loss. I guess, you know, people go to a doctor and they're winging about weight. And a doctor would say, well, do you want to try medication? So it's sort of become a lot more common. But there was a warning raised in relation to nutrient deficiencies. And this was an interesting one, because it's a nutrient deficiency that doesn't come off of them, but medical doctors are saying it more because of the impacts that a gel P1 can have on appetite. So this doesn't surprise me, Leanne, because what I've also seen is if I'm working with a client with a gel P1, and often it's clients who haven't started, they've already been on one, and the weight loss is slow. So they'll come to see what's going on with the diet. And what I've noticed is, unlike earlier in time, where GPs might be prescribing a minjaro, for example, I like to keep the dose low and then work in conjunction with diet and exercise, because then I find you're using the gel P1 as a tool, but you're ultimately changing lifestyle and minimizing muscle wasting,

19:28which comes from significantly reducing calorie intake and thus helping to protect metabolism. But I'm seeing more and more doctors are just following the recommendation from pharmaceutical companies, which is to bump it up. So you can go from sort of a dose to so-and-so to just continue to put it right up. And of course, for most people, how they respond is they stop eating. And they might be eating 500 to 800 calories per day. But that's really, I would say, metabolically damaging, and I've always argued that with 800 calorie diets, I don't know who, I don't care who is promoting them in the media. As a dietitian, I have fundamental issues with diets that are that low in calories for anyone, particularly for people who are 100 kilos or more, because that means you will be wasting a serious amount of muscle mass and really basically to strengthen metabolism at time. But what the systematic review published just this week found was that users of GLP ones were at extremely high risk of developing vitamin C deficiency. So if that doesn't sound familiar, I want you to think Captain Cook and Skurvy on the first fleet, where the travelers didn't have access to fresh fruit and vegetables

20:28from months at a time and actually became deficient in vitamin C. And this is a nutrient we take for granted vitamin C. It's primarily in citrus fruits, kiwi fruit, but also leafy green vegetables, tomatoes, sweet potato, red capsicum, and we need a minimum of about 40 milligrams per day. But I would argue that upwards intakes of 100, the higher basically the better, because it's a water soluble vitamin, you'll excrete with no damage, I'm higher amount, so I myself actually take a mega-joseph vitamin C now as an anti-aging supplement. And it's sort of one of those things you can do to protect the cell that also very powerfully and vulnerable, did immune function, and wound healing. And so, yeah, that was an interesting one, but it doesn't surprisingly am, because when people are not eating a lot, what happens is they instantly ditch their salad and veggies. So they're usually not eating a lot of that anyway. So their daily intake might be something along the lines of a coffee or a protein shake, because they're told, where everyone's told, all protein, protein, protein. So they're focusing on that protein yogurt,

21:31and then they'll have lunch. So what's quick and easy to grab if they're hungry, again, milk coffee, sushi, that kind of food that's easy to eat. Snacks, if people are snacking, they'll have a snack bar, as I talk about often. Very rarely, a people grab a piece of fruit. And then dinner, they're sticking to protein, and they're not getting two cups, three cups of brightly colored veggies. So it doesn't surprise me, but I thought it was a worthwhile discussion. That was a systematic review published by Australia's Hunter Medical Research Institute. It was found that people are simply not getting the bulk of nutrient-rich food. So while they're maybe losing weight, they're not only healthy, it's not an indicator of health. So yeah, I thought it was just a good discussion that people listening who are considering or taking weight loss medication, you know, I'm not suggesting a supplements or idea. I'm saying you've got to make sure you're still getting your fresh food in. Basically, if you're on a GLP, one at every meal. So for example, you'd want to have berries or fruit with your protein yogurt or smoothie. You'd want to make sure there's vegetables or salad at both lunch and dinner,

22:32even though the volumes are significantly reduced. And I have many clients here who don't even eat a bit of fruit a day now. They've cut it all out in favor of protein snacks, which is good on one hand, but I'm saying to my clients, add an apple. Have an apple. Have a peach like you need that nutrient to get even the minimal amounts of vitamin C, little on the optimal amounts, which I would argue are probably upwards of 100 milligrams per day, not just 40, which is the recommended dietary intake. Well fun fact, there are at a season at the moment, Australian kiwis, but two gold kiwi fruit a day will give you more than a hundred percent of your vitamin C requirements. So if you're lacking in your vitamin C, add some gold kiwi fruit in particular, not the green ones or gold ones to your diet. But I've actually seen a client when I was working at the hospital, so I don't know, six, seven, eight years ago now, and the referral came through and it said scurvy. And I was like, what? Like surely this is like an error or something, and they were following a proper ketogenic diet. Like they were counting the carbohydrates in letter, basically. Like they were too a tea, very, very high ketogenic diet for weight loss and not eating any fruits and veggies.

23:33As I said, like a tiny piece of lettuce a day and that was it because I was so worried about the carbohydrates. And the big symptoms they had were bleeding gums and they had a lot of these like, they weren't wound so much, but they just had these sort of like spots on their skin and they wouldn't heal properly. And then they were complaining about their hair and their nails being really brittle as well. So they're probably the biggest signs of a vitamin C deficiency. Also things like anemia, just difficulties with your teeth and your gums, really easy bruising and really ruffle scaly skin can be some really, really big ones and wounds not healing properly or just really brittle hair that falls out. They're probably the biggest signs of a vitamin C deficiency. So it would be something, we got all got told about scurvy when we went through our training at university, but I'm sure that lecture has followed up with that. But don't worry, you won't see clients with scurvy in your lifetime. But I think we've come full circle now and we're seeing so many people who might be overweight but be malnourished at the same time. So you can actually be, I think a lot of people associate malnutrition with like significantly underweight.

24:34But I remember when we were at the hospital, we would see so many people who had obesity and malnutrition at the same time. So they were getting a ton of ultra-process foods in, but they weren't actually eating much real food. As you said, people weren't eating a piece of fruit a day or even any fresh fruit. They go on entire day without any fresh food that have peanut butter or veg marron toast and a coffee that have some sushi, chicken sushi for lunch. And then for dinner, they might have, I don't know, like a cheese sandwich or something. They just weren't actually getting any fresh food and with that comes a lack of fresh nutrients as well. So we are seeing more and more deficiency these days. You know, I've had a dietitian friend of mine who saw a child with rickets because they weren't getting it in enough vitamin D. So we are seeing these deficiencies more and more these days as different types of diets and weight loss pills and interventions become more and more popular. The bottom line is we still need to get those nutrients in through food. And yes, you can supplement, but a supplement will never give you in most cases for things like vitamin C and stuff as good as what real food will give you.

25:35But vitamin D is in particular a bit harder to get because it is often coming from the sunshine is our best source of vitamin D. True, and I think just as a reference, you want to be having at least a piece of fresh fruit per day. You don't need to be scared of the car. You know, there's so many options whether it's fairies, fresh or frozen, whether it's a small stone fruit, kiwi fruit, amazing. These are all really nutrient-edition to the diet. I think we still remain a bit carb-scared of fruit. And you know, one meal should have a heavy salad or veg base. So if you're eating out a lot and you are finding yourself at restaurants or traveling, you know, naturally you should be aiming to have one other meal that's salad or soup. Just for optimal, you know, if you're listening to the nutrition couch, nutrition's on your mind. So these are simple strategies to make sure you're getting more and plenty. Let's make most common feedback each and every day to my clients. Where's the fresh food? Every meal, there should be some. So a good reminder, particularly if you have tried and using AGLP1. All right, Leanne. Well, our project of the week comes from our Instagram. We get all of our requests for content on Instagram.

26:36So keep those DMs coming. I'm always looking at something new and exciting. And a listener sent me what she described as a stopper. And you might have noticed in supermarkets there is sort of in the health food section, sort of a growing range of toppers they call them, which might be seeds or it might be like a granola sprinkle. And this one that she sent to me was called Coastal Crunch, Protein Crunch. And it is an online product. It is what I would describe a very boutique product. It's quite expensive. So I'm going to go through this, but I'm also wanting to talk about toppers in general because I know there's a growing range of online options that even in supermarket of these products. And I want to talk about them in terms of how to use them and what to look for. So the one I'm going to review nutritionally today, as I said, it's a company called Coastal Crunch, which looks like a local Australian company. They're calling it Australia's healthiest granola. I like many love a granola. The crunch of it, I think it's delicious. I don't buy it because I like the whole packet, but I hear you that they can be delicious.

27:37And this one is a toasted almond and cinnamon. You can buy it in different packets. There's a large, four kilo one. I've stood a three 20 gram one, which is $14. So you can buy it in bulk as well. And when I look at ingredients and it is pretty clean. So it's 32% lupin, which is a very, what we call a super ingredient in terms of dietary fiber and protein content. Buckwheat, sunflower, millet, coconut chips, coconut sugar, almonds at 6% per peters, then seeds, coconut oil, cinnamon, salt. So that would be what Leanne and I would describe as a very clean ingredient list. There's no fillers, there's no attitudes, there's no flavors. It's got like many granolas or many toppers, not a grain versus a nut base because as soon as you have toppers or swap to granolas that are nut base, they're perceived as healthier because they're lower in carb, but they usually pack huge amounts of calories because they're basically fat. And it's good fat, but they're high in calories, whereas I like this one, Leanne, because it does have a grain base. And so you're still getting the benefits of whole grains. They're recommending a serving size here of 50 grams.

28:39So to me, that's sort of a whole serve of cereal. First serve that comes in at just over 250 calories, 10 grams of protein, 14.5 grams of total fat, 4 grams saturated. So that's from the coconut oil in there. And carbohydrates 12.7, sugar 4.2 or 8.4 per hundreds are not low in sugar. And that's coming, I think, just from sugar itself being out in coconut sugar, so I should say. So they're sort of riding on a coconut train to be that it's healthier, but ultimately coconut sugar still sugar. A 10.4 grams dietary fiber, which is massive for a 50 gram serve granola, and 35 milligrams sodium. So very low, there's no added salt in there. Now, this I would say is a pretty good product. I myself wouldn't use your white because I don't like coconut and coconut oil as an ingredient or coconut sugar. It's adding saturated fat. I think that if you love it, it's not too bad. I wouldn't use it at a 50 gram serve. I'd probably use it more like 30. And that would keep the fat down at around 8, 10 grams per serve.

29:40But I think if you want to invest in that, it's gluten free. So if you need a gluten free product, I think it's very strong. And I think that in general, these boutique products are pretty good. You know, they don't have a lot of fillers in them. If you love the taste, the flavor, I probably think they're slightly better ones. I don't think it's the healthiest granola because I don't think a granola that's got coconut added is ever going to be the healthiest. But I think it's a good choice if used in moderation. But what I wanted to talk about in terms of toppers is a granola that's nut based is not really a granola. You want a cereal whole grain base when you're having cereal in the morning, which whether it's oats or it's buckwheat, but it's looking because that is giving you the whole grains. That's giving you the dietary fiber. This is what's good for our gut. If you're using toppers or granolas that are nut based, I would be using them as like sprinkles for yogurt or sprinkles for another cereal for flavor. So you might use an all-brand, you might use a plain oat, you might use a mulchberry wipix and use it as a bit of a crunchy, top-ed-up ad-good fat.

30:41And then I'd use it in, say, a 20 gram, maybe 30 grams, to add some extra good fat and protein. So yeah, I thought it was just an interesting product. Yeah, I'd give it seven, eight out of 10. I think there's better ones, but I think that this probably tastes delicious and as such, it's a nice sort of addition that's adding nutrition to your cereal choice. What do you think, Liam? Have you said it before? I haven't seen it before. No, it's, as you said, it looks like a very boutique brand coastal crunch. I imagine it's, I don't know where, but I imagine it's out of somebody like Byron Bay, which is lovely. But no, I quite like it, you know, it's not too expensive either, compared to obviously the things in supermarket you're always going to get some better price products. But I think ingredient wise, this is basically as good as you're going to get. I personally don't have a problem with coconut being in granola. I don't think the saturated fat is the same as, you know, in meat and that kind of thing. I don't really have a problem with it. I think the ingredients are wonderful, but the thing that I really like about it is that the protein and the fiber is coming from natural sources. Often when you find like a high protein or high fiber granola in the supermarket,

31:43it's what we call that fake fibers. There's been a ton of that like different artificial type fiber dumped in there. All the protein is coming from like, you know, soy protein flakes, or they've added the protein in some of the way, like it's quite a process form of protein. I love that this is the basis looping because we know that looping, as you described earlier, is more like a superfood. It's a very high in protein. It's a very high in fiber and it is more carbohydrate controlled. So if you're looking for a product that is more carb controlled, I think this is a really great choice. So it's only 12.7 grams in a 50 gram serve. So if you're not even using 50 grams, it's quite low. And that way you would be able to add some beautiful fresh fruit in some yogurt to this. And I think that that could be a really nourishing breakfast option. So I love this. I don't see a problem with it at all. I think it's a great little product. If you're happy to invest in it, I think it can be a really good choice. I think the ingredients are super strong. There's nothing in there that I would be worried about personally. I think there's a great mix of different types of blends of, you know, the base between looping and buckwheat. And then you've also got some great seeds

32:45and nuts going in the potatoes, the linseeds, the almonds as well. So yeah, I think it's a really good product. And if you're happy to invest in it, I'd be happy for my clients to have this as a little bit of a topper to yogurt or something. Or as you mentioned, if you've got a base of maybe some bite of Brits or some all-ground or something and using this as a bit of a mix. But even though it is protein crunch, ideally for breakfast, it's still not enough protein. Even at a 50 gram serve, 10.4 grams of protein is good, but we'd want at least another 10 grams of protein in coming from somewhere. So a decent cup of milk in there, or some higher protein yogurt, or serving that with a little bit, maybe a sprinkled protein powder and some half a cup of milk or something. We definitely want to boost that up if this is a sole breakfast option because we do know that women do much better with at least 20 grams of protein at breakfast. That would be my only feedback. Yeah, I think it would go nice to with the new higher protein milk because you can have your new investor knows. And I like these products, as I said, a topper as an addition that way. And the other thing I was thinking, I went to a supermarket this morning

33:45and I was looking at kids' lunchbox fillers. And what crossed my mind was that when it comes to different products, I noticed like the LCMs were very cheap. And I think the thing to keep in mind is that the higher the quality of the cereal, that more expensive it will be because things like seeds and nuts are expensive, even whole grains. So sometimes thinking about more as an investment versus cost because you can go on by an LCM bar for $3 versus say a whole grain bar that sticks and basically the differences you're playing for the quality of ingredients. And that's certainly the case with some of these more deep, higher level nutrition cereals. So yeah, I would definitely, and that's why I would also use it in smaller amounts because yeah, if you're following a budget, you just want to make sure that you're getting the best bang for your dollar. Right, Lian, I think we've covered it before, but it comes up all the time and there are certainly different options. So the question is, I'm getting takeaway, what is the healthiest option? What do you think? Well, I would argue that if you're getting takeaway, you want something delicious, not so much healthy, but that's my argument.

34:47What do we get in my household? We regularly have grilled. We love grilled where I wish grilled with sponsor the segment, but we're big grilled fans in my family. They do really good chicken nuggets like that it's actual chicken breast fried in extra virgin olive oil. Yes, they're fried, but they're really good amount of protein. Their proper chicken breast is extra virgin olive oil like my little girls love them. Yeah, so we love grilled. We also love getting a tie or like a Chinese, but I tend to get when I think of tie-al Chinese, often we don't want to get the deep fried kind of stuff like the honey chicken or the sweet and sour pork, which is deep fried. Often I say to my clients, get the dry stir fry with the herb bases. So think chili, basil, prawns, or garlic and black pepper chicken. That way it's a little bit leaner. There's often a ton of veggies added in and the rice comes separately. Often if you're gonna get like a noodle dish from, you know, tie like a pad tie for example, all of the protein and the veggies are mixed up with the noodle so it becomes a really, really heavy carb base, whereas I prefer the herb type stir fries because you're getting the rice separately, you can control the amount

35:47and you're often getting a really good amount of vegetables as well. And then my other favorite takeaway, often suggest for clients who are trying to keep things a little bit leaner is Vietnamese. I love Vietnamese. They use a lot of herbs for flavor. The proteins often quite lean. You know, you can get prawns or you can get chicken and I love the rice noodle salad bowls, sometimes depending on where you get it, the noodle base can be quite heavy. So I often said it clients get half noodle, half lettuce. They also do the, some people call them rice paper rolls or those summer rolls. They can be a really good option as well. And next again, I think we've talked about that before, can be a really good option, but you just have to be careful because sometimes those burritos can be massive and you've got the burritos with the rice and the beans and the chicken and the cheese and the guacamole so it can quickly add up. But often those, what we call those naked bowls from a Mexican perspective can be really healthy. You can add quite a lot of different types of veggies and beans and get some good fiber and some freshness in through there as well. So they're probably my three or four favorite ones, but I do think it's a balance between what you enjoy, how often you have it. Like if you're someone who has takeaway twice a week,

36:50I'd probably say that you would be leaning for one of those options to be a healthy option. But if you're someone who has takeaway once a month, get what you want, get some fish and chips, get some pizza, it's probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. So I think this only really matters if you're somebody that eats takeaway quite regularly or you are actively trying to pursue a weight loss journey. But otherwise, I'd generally just say, have what you like if it's an occasional thing. Yeah, so first of all, do I have a fight today? I would disagree completely that grilled is healthy. I didn't say it was healthy, I thought it was delicious. No, I know, but the question is, I think you'd be slating out crunchy our clients because you've said, the question is, is it healthy and you said, I love grilled. Now, I know you love grilled. I think everyone loves grilled, but it's packed full of cow. Like, I'm just having a look at nutritionally because I don't want to speak out of turn. But some of those burgers, if you just get the burger, can be 500 calories. Nothing went with that quiet protein, bit of fresh food. But it's fried food, it's fast food, it's not healthy. The energy density is not fried and I wouldn't be fried.

37:51It's not fried, if you get a chicken breast burger, that's chicken breast and it's grilled is not fried. But people are not just having a burger on its own. They're having it as a meal deal. Like, I'm just looking at the chicken tenders. They are deep fried or fried in extra virgin olive. Oh yeah, those are. But I think that it's misleading to say it's healthy. I think it's healthier fast food, it's not healthy. Because with grilled, I noticed they stack their sources. Like, if you look at the lower carbon, it's heavily protein. Like, is it healthier than macros? Yes. Is it healthier? There are some better choices in there though. Yeah, not the entire brand is healthy, agree? Yeah, and I agree that with Mexican, like Guisman and Gomez, is it healthier? Yes, is it fast food that's still, it's not. I think in answer to the question, if I were saying, what is the healthiest fast food takeaway? I think rolled is one of the healthiest ones, because often it's not fried. I think that fish bowl is the other one,

38:54because it's not generally fried, you know, it's not heavily sourced. So I think, I don't disagree with you that grilled is a healthier choice. Is it healthy, no? It's high, it's high calorie. I see your point, yep. I see your point, yep. If I was talking, I think the other health, which this isn't really fast food, but I think subway is then probably the other one I would put is actually quite healthy, if I was being technical. Is that a fair call? Yeah, that's a fair call, absolutely. But I do, I would argue that there's healthier options in every type of takeaway. That's what I thought we were more meaning so. So like, if you went to grill, there are some of the burgers are like 1,000 calories. Absolutely. Some of them are only 4, 5,500, much better options. But again, are you getting the burger? Are you getting the burger and the chips and the sauce and a side of nuggets? Very different. So if you're looking for the healthiest option overall, I would agree, rolled subway. Some sort of Vietnamese is generally pretty good or Mexican. But yeah, there's always going to be Lena and higher calorie options wherever you go. Yeah, yeah. So I think, I don't think we're missing anything,

39:55but yeah, just in terms of if we're being technical about it, they're probably the ones. Yeah, fair point. Awesome. All right, well, that wraps up the segment all the show today for Nutrition Gatch. Thank you for listening for another week. And if you're a new listener, we also have a scientifically formulated range of supplements that are designed by dietitians. Go and check us out. And make sure you share the potty for the week and your stories or in your Facebook stories. Tell your friends. Because we've got a great lot of tips and tricks coming your way in this episode and many more to come. So thank you for listening. And we'll catch you in next week's episode. Have a great week.