Why the Biggest Oscar Party Is Cutting Its Guest List in Half

0:00This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn Ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all major ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn Ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash the town. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of the town is brought to you by the Madison, the new original series on Paramount Plus. Academy Award nominee Taylor Sheridan's most intimate story yet,

1:00unlike anything he's ever done before. The Madison follows a family raised in a world of digital distraction forced by tragedy to truly see one another and come together. Authentic, multi-layered, and did I mention starring Michelle Fiverr and Kurt Russell? Don't miss the Madison. New series streaming March 14 only on Paramount Plus. It is Thursday, March 12. Oscar Week rolls on. We've covered a bunch of different angles on this show. Everything from the races, to the ratings, to the business of the red carpet. Well, we've never done an episode about the parties. Obviously, they're a huge part of Oscar lore and specifically one event has endured. It's the Vanity Fair party, of course, despite all the ups and downs at the magazine. It's been around for 31 years now. There are more exclusive parties during Oscar Week, Beyonce and Jay-Z, throw their gold party at the Chateau, for instance, that's become kind of the toughest invite. But VF is still the party that almost everyone at least stops by after the show

2:01and the official after party, the governor's ball. And many stars and industry people flying to town just to hit VF and be seen. When grading Carter started doing it in the 90s at Mortons, it was a clubby successor to agent Swiftie Lazar's viewing party that had been the party for a long time. The heyday was probably the years at the sunset tower, a small-ish space packed with A-listers. But in recent years, the VF party has ballooned to include a lot of corporate brand managers, random TV people, journalists taking videos on the dance floor. Everyone still showed up, but it was more like a neighborhood block party than an exclusive gathering. The new editor, Vanity Fair, wants to change that. Mark Giducci says he's cutting the guest list by about half, moving the party from a huge space at the Annenberg Center in Beverly Hills to a new space outside the Geffing Gallery at Lackama. That move has pissed off a ton of people who are used to getting themselves and their publicists into that party. But that's kind of the point. I love the move and I think it's exactly what VF should be doing.

3:03So I invited Mark on the show to talk about why he's doing it. The role of the party and Vanity Fair in general in modern Hollywood and most importantly, who specifically is getting the axe. From the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. All right, we are here with Mark Giducci, who is the global editorial director of Vanity Fair, recently in the job. Welcome. Hey, Matt. Thanks for having me. So you and I got together last summer when you got the job. And one of the things that surprised me about our conversation was that you told me that you thought the Oscar party was too big. That it got it unwieldy and that one of the things you wanted to do in your job was to scale it back, make it more exclusive. I chuckled a little at having run a number of parties over the years, including ones that are, I don't want to say coveted, but people expect to be invited. And I immediately thought to myself, this guy doesn't know what he's stepping in.

4:06There are going to be so many people who have expected that invite year after year and he's going to have to tell them or their reps that they are not invited. And so how's that going? Look, Matt, I'm in L.A. I'm in your town and I never want to leave. This plays like every day I wake up in 75 and that is not an answer. That is not an answer. When you wake up like this, my phone is blowing up. You might imagine who has screamed the loudest. I've been told to change the name on my hotel room, but no, actually it's going great where a few days away. And the Oscar party started in 1994, as most people know something about, but Swiffy Lazar had this very small dinner that he used to do. And when he passed away, my predecessor, Graydon Carter, took it over. He invited a small group, like 100 people for dinner and then it was an after party for the Oscars. Pretty simple. Over the years, it became an institution unto itself where it was a red carpet

5:10that nothing is quite the Oscars, but was almost rivaled the Oscars where it became a destination that was for more than just Hollywood. It was for a group of people that included everyone that was in the magazine, whether it was people from the world of other parts of culture or politics or yeah, but the Hollywood people cared the most. It became a status thing, where if you were invited, if you were somebody, if you weren't invited, you were nobody. So how are you managing that? All these agents, they have to tell their client that they're not invited, because I've talked to publicists and they're like, yeah, they're not inviting the second-level agents. They're not inviting the second-level studio people, the lower-level TV people that may have been fun to invite in the past. They're not invited now. How are you curating this party? We start from scratch. Whenever I do a party, whether this is my first one at Vanity Fair at this scale that I've worked at Vogue for a long time, you always start from scratch

6:10and think about what you want that room to look like. In this case, the ethos of the party is to make a destination for the winners of the Oscars, people that have been on a Odyssey. Well, but I'm told you're not inviting all the Oscar nominees. All the winners will be. Oh, so you're talking about winners. Even if the sound guy, the sound mixing winner can get in. Absolutely. There's a golden rule. You come with an Oscar, you're coming in. All right, but the golden rule is often bastardized by the 10 agents that arrive with Timothy Chalamet or Michael B. Jordan. How are you handling that? There's a good story. You win an Oscar, you're coming. That's it. But what about your 10 agency people? Sure. You're winning Oscar, you're coming. And the idea is that you bring that we want to create an environment that those people want to be in. So they don't necessarily need to see all the people they see all the time. We want to create a room of people that they might want to meet, actually. And whether it's the world of tech or politics or journalists themselves, I wanted to feel like the magazine itself,

7:14you know, like when you flip the pages of the magazine or scroll through it online and it just, should feel like a mix. You know, you don't want it to feel like everyone that you see in a restaurant in Hollywood every Friday. Sure. No, I get it. But I am looking at some of the people. I perused the red carpet photos last night. Yeah. And I was chatting with some publicists. And I'm seeing people that were invited for years, like David Spade, Lindsey Lohan, Brian Grazer, Matt Boomer, like Katie Kirk, like who of those people are not invited now? I'm not going to talk about the guest list specifically. No, specifically who did you cut? Can we cut to just Grazer? Grazer would be by number one to cut. But like, you're not going to get me here. No way. No way. All right, we're not talking about the guest list. I get it. But there is a sense that, you know, well, you can fight me on this. But like the magazine, the magazine world in general is not what it was. We all know that the cost of this party, I'm told it costs between three and four million dollars

8:20to throw this party, or it has in the past, isn't this decision to downscale largely to cut costs? No, I would say that our, our, our, all of our numbers are up across the board, except the invite list. Okay. So you're spending the same amount on the party you say, but not inviting. I'm not going to talk about their costs and their production, but I would say that, look, the magazines are very different now than they were in the 90s. There's no question. Then when this magazine started, we should have one product. We used to have one product that we put out monthly, and that was it. Now, obviously, a magazine is a podcast. It's a website. It's tick-tock. It's Instagram and YouTube. It's a film project. And it's also an in real life event, you know, like the, the red carpet that we produce is going to be bigger than it's ever been before. And the content that we, I don't love that word, but the content that we make, which is the send with, is a live stream. That's, that's as much the magazine as the monthly issue that comes out. But you're not letting media inside the party, you say, or at least they're not allowed.

9:24Because one of the problems of the party and people have complained over the years is that it's a lot of like corporate brand managers from Proctor and Gamble and LVMH and people like that that no star wants to see. But you have to invite for advertiser relationships. And then you invite in a bunch of media people who are taking Twitter videos of what Smith on the dance floor. And like, it's just not special. It's, it's, it's, it's ended up with a sense of this is something you have to go to make your scene. And then you go to the place you really want to go. Absolutely. We wanted to be special. Like that is, it always was. And in looking back to how it started and the original ethos, that's what we're trying to achieve. So you're right. There will be no press inside other than vanity fair, no photographers other than a couple that we have for ourselves. I mean, think about it this way that like this is our, we have the exclusive on this story. Why would we give it away? Well, because you want press and the advertiser. Like who are your sponsors? Sure, but you, but I think that you really, the most important thing is

10:26the red carpet is that's, that's the place for all of, to make all the news, to make all of the TikToks and the Instagrams and for people to, that's a place that people actually talk to the press. There's more press than ever on the red carpet. But once you go inside, we're actually going to put stickers on people's phones and ask that they don't use social media. Bungalos style. Bungalos style. Sure. I mean, the best weddings parties that I've been to are the ones that you actually don't see anything from because people are present. It's like a psychological difference as much as a, no, it's the Beyonce party. You don't see press from the Beyonce JZ party. And it's, it's lended in an ethos of mystique to it. And people want to go because of that. What, we're a business podcast. What is the business of this party? Is this a loss leader? Do you have sponsors now? Who are the sponsors? We live in an age of sponsorship, Matt. I know that I saw that puck did a, it looked like a great event at the French ambassador's residence in DC the other night. And Delta was there front and center. Totally. No shame. Is it, is it Delta or is it like skims? The live stream itself is the biggest piece of this puzzle. And we have ads in the middle

11:32of the live stream. So if you think about it that way, it's like we're creating a show. And then we're running, you know, a piece of editorial content that we run advertising against. That's like old school media. So if you think about it that way, that's, that's where you see our, our sponsors show up. That makes sense. And we're grateful to them. But you don't, you don't have them on the step and repeat or anything like that. No, no, no. And you're moving to LACMA. Why LACMA? Is that to kind of elevate the brand a little bit? We're, we're artsy. We can compete with the, the Met Gala a little bit. No, I would never, are you kidding? I would never. Oh, sorry. I, I touched the third rail there. You were not allowed to say anything competitive with the Met Gala. Anna will have your right, your head. No way. It's not smart for anybody. But I was going to say, I went to, I went to visit Michael Govan. Now, maybe a couple of years ago now and saw from his office, which is across the street down onto, onto the LACMA, you know, it was the sumthor building under construction. And I just thought it was extraordinary. And the way he, we have a story that's

12:34coming out in our spring issue, the cover of which launched today about how he just against all the haters through sheer will was able to make this happen over two decades. And I was so impressed by what he had, what his vision was and how he had, you know, just been able to accomplish it through determination. And I think it's honestly just a really beautiful building. So we are not inside the building. He has his opening in a month, but we are on the LACMA grounds. We're thrilled to be there. And I can't wait to do much more with him. This is like a partnership that we're going to be doing with LACMA around their work and our party over a number of years. And you mentioned the cover. It's nice to do a Kylie Jenner cover the week of the Oscars. If you really want Timmy to show up at your party, even if he loses. Not that that was the reason. Not that that was the reason. It's not the reason. I mean, we also, we put Tiana on the cover recently. I know. I know. I'm giving you the other time. But about Kylie, I'll talk about Kylie for a second, because

13:36you know, Tina Brown, the editor of any fair in the 80s after the when it revived after Frank Crowley and Sheldon, the jazz age. Tina really made very fair. Loud. I think Graydon made it grand. And Radika Jones, my immediate predecessor made it inclusive. But in all that time, you know, the Kardashians have been become a global cultural influence. And none of them have ever been on the cover before. I found that kind of amazing when I arrived. So not even Kim, not even Kim. So Graydon, Graydon didn't like the Kardashians. He found them trash. He made that. But I just thought it was a, it reflects the new cast of characters that I want to bring to Vanity Fair. Sure. Is Graydon coming to the party? Well, I know you invited him. We have said no talking about the guest list, but I have said this already. So it was out there. Yes, Graydon is coming and I'm so thrilled to have him. He was my first boss and I'm happy he's coming. This episode is brought to you by AMC+. The critically acclaimed series Dark Winds returns

14:41for a fourth season from executive producers Robert Redford and George R.R. Martin. When a young girl disappears, the Navajo tribal police are pushed beyond their limits, forced to confront unfamiliar land, twisted obsessions, and a trail of grizzly murders. This season, one thing becomes clear, justice has no boundaries. Watch Dark Winds season four, Sundays at 9 p.m. on AMC or stream anytime on AMC+. This episode is brought to you by AMC+. The critically acclaimed series Dark Winds returns for a fourth season from executive producers Robert Redford and George R.R. Martin. When a young girl disappears, the Navajo tribal police are pushed beyond their limits, forced to confront unfamiliar land, twisted obsessions, and a trail of grizzly murders. This season, one thing becomes clear, justice has no boundaries. Watch Dark Winds season four, Sundays at 9 p.m. on AMC or stream anytime on AMC+. Who's the big get? Who would be the big get

15:42for the party this year? I want to be a mix of icons of people that like you just you can't believe there are there. They're still with us. Thank God and there and you haven't seen them in years and people that are very right now. I think that mix is really important. Let's talk about Vandy Fair in general because it has an interesting relationship with Hollywood and I do think that that relationship has changed a bit over the past decade or so. It used to be and why don't you give me your pitch for why Vandy Fair is still relevant in Hollywood and then I'll give you what I think people in town really think of it. I would think it celebrates the best of our culture and investigates the forces that propel that culture so that can be money or politics. The history of Vandy Fair in Hollywood is that it's always had a star on the cover and we have a Hollywood issue and there's an influence of Hollywood throughout. The way I think about Hollywood is probably a lot less rigid than and I would say more modern than

16:46than previous generations have thought of this town. I think of Hollywood as not just film and television. I think of it also as sports and the influencer culture and business and even fashion in some ways is show business and so I don't think of Hollywood just as Los Angeles. It's also and it's global. It's in Korea as much as it is here and so I would say that when I think of our Hollywood coverage I don't think of it like a trade publication in the narrow confines of like these are the deals that are being done. This is what's going on with Warner Brothers. I think about it as show business and in a much broader point of view. That said all of some of the best characters I think you know you've been doing a great job covering probably the most interesting business deal in America right now or the world perhaps because it involves politics and technology and Hollywood and culture and great personalities. So Hollywood is a place that we want that we

17:50have always been and want to be. I just think of it a little differently in that way. Okay. You want to hear what I think? Please. And I think this is reflective and this is not I'm not crapping on you at all. I think that Vandy Fair is still a luxury brand. People in Hollywood want to be associated with it. It still means something to be on the cover of Vandy Fair. It's one of the five, six magazines still around that still do mean something to people. They want to participate though they can increasingly dictate the terms of that participation. What I think it has lost and I don't and I don't say this to be mean. I think it's lost juice. It doesn't have the juice that it once did with the industry where it felt urgent and you knew that at the end of the day, Graydon wouldn't be afraid to stab someone or to go hard and against the right topic or

18:52the right subject. And there was a little bit of today you'd probably call it snark, but it was the spy magazine ethos. And I just think it's so much more difficult to do that in the age of social media than it was in the old days of magazines that it sort of it has turned BF into a luxury brand, which is not a bad thing. I mean, you still have a category of advertising in fashion that very much wants that, but it doesn't have the same juice. We will take on deserving subjects without flinching, not include Hollywood. So if you top of my head, there is a good story about how Ryan Murphy has had bad behavior and people hate him. And he's had a bunch of flops in a row. You're doing the Ryan Murphy story. If there's a story worth doing, we're doing it. There's a moment on my first day at Vanity Fair, I talked to the team specifically about politics,

19:52but I had noticed that it's related to your point. So let me get there. That magazine journalism had become, I felt, too similar to almost advocacy work, like this idea that if you were going to be in the magazine, it was platforming somebody and that you were moving forward as an endorsement or something. When in fact, like, that's not what journalism does, right? And so I said to everyone, you got a lot of attention for your, your Trump cover or your, your Suzy Wiles cover. Well, that, your jump, yeah, that, that was the result of this conversation I have in my team. I said, we're going to go to Washington and Florida and we're going to knock on the doors of the people that run this government. And we're going to say, can we talk to you and take your picture in good faith and turns out Suzy Wiles said, yes. And we went down to the White House and they invited us in and we did the thing. So I think that that's a good example of what take, you know, that we're not afraid to pull punches. We can punch up. We can, and I would do just the same thing in Hollywood

20:52if there was the right story. Okay. Um, what does the whole death of access journalism mean to a man, a magazine like Bandy Fair? You just, I mean, I, I have looked at old profiles in VF and elsewhere and just the level of access and the level of, you know, ability to quote and all of that stuff. It's just gone away. There's no reason for any star of any magnitude to do that. I would, frankly, there's no reason for you to do that. Why antagonize a publicist or a star by doing an honest portrayal in a profile when you can have their best friend interview them like Vogue does. Well, we still do it. So there's that. I mean, I would say you're talking about the death of access journalism. I just talked about a great example of, yeah, but that's politics. That's politics. You can take your swings in politics. You can't take your swings in Hollywood. Well, we actually aren't reliant on our FYC business. The awards advertising. The awards

21:52advertising. The studios are partners. You rely on access. You want Ryan Murphy to give you the pictures of his new JFK junior first. I, I don't assign based on a fear of, of retribution. It just, it, it never works by the way. You know that better than anybody. I agree. Trust me. You pull a story because you're afraid of the response. You're making the wrong decision. I think there's a lot of self-sensorship though and that's and it's just it's not you. I'm not, I'm not harping on you. I think the social media age has flipped the switch on the power dynamic and every single star has more power than any media outlet. So you tow the line. Yeah, no, I think I think that happened in social media. That's true, but audiences see that and I have grown up with that. The idea of having a real profile, you know, I want the profile to mean something. And so if you, if we get, if we are known for having fair profiles of people and that are able that earn trust both with the with their audiences and with our subjects,

22:54then that actually means something. It's harder work and it's a more long-term view of it. But as you know, Matt, you can write and report juicy stories that have access. I'm on your podcast. You I listened to it all the time. You have plenty of access. Yeah, it's true. It's just a different kind of form and I and I came up doing this on this in this forum. It's harder to steer a brand. I ran into this at Hollywood Reporter. It's harder to steer a brand where there's a brand and there's an expectation of a certain type of content. And then if you start doing something else, people freak out like cutting half the list for the party. Well, exactly. How interesting would it be if there was a magazine out there that was willing to take a shot? Okay. Well, we will see. I got to say, I did think you did a nice job with the Hollywood issue this year. I thought it was cool. There was because you were in it, Matt. It was not because I was in it. But no, I thought it was, I thought there were some good ideas in it. And like it felt like a traditional Hollywood issue. But there were some fun things that I did not expect. So I appreciate that. That's cool. Thank you.

23:57I'm not here to crap on you. So what does success for you look like? What did they say to you at the beginning? How do you define success for VF? I think of the readership of VF. Like the people that I think about when I'm looking over a lineup or that the readership or the people that are in the magazine, the people that might like to be. And then everyone that is interested enough to buy a ticket to the arena. So I'm always thinking about those people. And if that, so I'm trying to listen to all three of those parts of our audience that come in different ways. Some of it is qualitative, some of it is like data that comes in. But if people, if it resonates with people and it feels like they're getting the window into something into some world that they're not a part of because even if you're like a studio exec, you might not in Hollywood, you might not understand what's happening in the Alise Palace in Paris. I would like to be able to bring people into other worlds. So that's very qualitative. But actually what success looks like is that we're able to accomplish a lot of

25:00what you're talking about. What we're talking about right now in terms of access journalism and being able to be known for having fair but exciting. And I think some some fun stories that exist not only in a magazine, but actually exist across all of the platforms. How do you stem the bleeding at these brands? Like that's what people are curious about in publishing. I want subscriptions. I want people, I want to make things that people are willing to pay for. I came up in an era of Google search, which I think was corrosive to journalism, not only because it made us target stories that, you know, we're just going to trend higher. But also because trained an entire generation of journalists to wake up in the morning, see what was trending already on Google and go right to the three stories that day based in the voice of their publication. I say that to journalists all the time. I mean, you know, because you actually do. You don't know, make phone calls. They don't go out and meet people. They don't develop relationships and go get

26:00stories that not just have a take on something but actually start a conversation. AI promises, we'll see what happens, but it promises to wipe away Google search and to aggregate better than your, I said this the other day, better than your favorite bloggers, favorite blog. And so in that world, I really believe in the tools and tenets of old school magazine journalism. But if you are going out there and not only getting the story, but also can package it in a way that is compelling for us, that means original visuals, photography and video, actually great headlines and pull quotes and putting it all together in a way that feels like it's at length. It's an experience to read it or watch it that I think that will be rewarded with subscriptions. And you want a Melania cover? I said in that, you know, you told Emily Sunberg that you want a Melania cover if she would do a real interview with a real journalist. I would still do it. I agree with you. I would do it too if I were you. If it was a real interview, if it was,

27:05you know, her friend or some, you know, sickle fan doing it, then you get you get taken in. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not that. And I already even know who I'm not going to tell you, but I even know the journalist that I asked to do it. Well, good luck to you. I hope that you were not beaten and, you know, carried away this weekend by some irate publicists. No one screamed at me yet, Matt. You know what? They don't, they don't scream anymore. They stab you in the back. Always simple, wear a bulletproof vest. All right. Good, good for you. And I appreciate you coming on and letting me grill you. Thanks, Matt. It was nice to see you. We're back with the call sheet, Craig. What are you thinking for the ratings this year for the Oscars show? I know we're going to do a little contest in my newsletter. And last year's show was up with Conan hosting. They got to 19.7 million viewers, not quite 20 million, but 19.7, which was a post COVID high. Yes. And it was extra surprising because I think we both thought last

28:07year because the movies were a little bit smaller than the year before, which had Oppenheimer and Barbie. The ratings were higher, even though it was movies like Anora and the Brutalists were the front runners. Yeah. So I, so I have to imagine that this year, the ratings will be up again, because I think these movies are buzzier than last years. And also, I believe last year was the first year where you could watch the Oscars on Hulu as a general subscriber, even if you, you didn't have to have Hulu live TV. You could just be a general Hulu subscriber and you could watch the Oscars. So that's the case again. That was the first time that they had done that amazingly, airing the Oscars live on Hulu. But and the demos were much younger, if you remember, they got a lot more younger people. I think that's attributed to the Hulu move where there's just a younger audience on streaming. And I think Conan brought in some younger people because he has younger fans. This year's tough, because I got some data from entertainment intelligence. And you think that the movies this year were buzzier. But if you look at the attendance, people who saw these movies

29:08in theaters, 48 million people saw the 10 best picture nominees in theaters this year. And last year, 65 million people saw these movies in theaters. And I think that was attributed mostly to wicked and doomed to because those were big box office hits, much bigger than sinners, F1, and Marty's Supreme, which were the big draws this year. But I don't know, man. So we'll set the line at 19.7 last years. I'm going to take the under. I just feel like maybe there's a little bit less interest in Conan because he's done it before. I think that you're right. There's not going to be the wicked people that show up. Maybe if they have a surge in black viewers because of sinners, perhaps that could make a difference. But I just don't think that that's enough to boost the ratings from last year. You do have K-pop team in Hunters Golden. That song will be performed there.

30:08That's the most popular movie in Netflix history. And you have a more competitive and interesting best actor and best picture race with Leo, Timmy, Michael B. Jordan, sinners, one battle. All of that should in theory lead to people tuning in at the end. Unlike last year when a nor in the brutalist people didn't really care as much. I would guess that's true. And nobody knew who Mike Madison was and to me more is like your mom's favorite star. But should you're taking the over now? I'll take the over slide over. Okay. All right. I'll email you and make my bet so that I can win a puck hat or whatever. I was going to say you should you should enter the contest. We don't you don't ever enter my contest and you are ineligible for the puck merch. Yeah. I do need more puck merch. I think I only have one hat. You do. I know to go with your many, many A24 hats that they've sent you. Yes. But all right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Mark Gaducci, producer Craig Horoback, are there John Jones. And I want to thank you one more episode this week. We'll see you tomorrow. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. All right, baseball fans get ready for the first time

31:12in history of the major league season kicks off with one exclusive opening night game live on Netflix. The New York Yankees led by seven-time officer Aaron Judge roll into the San Francisco Bay to battle Rafael Devers and the San Francisco Giants. The weight is over. It's time to play ball. Watch MLB opening night. The New York Yankees versus the San Francisco Giants live on Netflix. Wednesday, March 25th at 8 p.m. Eastern time, 5 p.m. Pacific time.