Why Rich Logis Left The MAGA Cult & Started Helping Others Do The Same

0:00When I was in MAGA, we believe that anyone who was not 100% with us was 100% against us. And I understand why people might say, well, Ritz does sounds like a cult. It's a choice to be supportive of MAGA. It's a choice to support Trump. It's a choice to vilify others such as yourself. So it wasn't the demonizing Mexicans in saying that they're rapists, right? That wasn't like a line for you. It wasn't a line about John McCain, who is a war hero. It wasn't the making fun of a New York Times reporter's disabilities. It wasn't the racism and the bigotry. It wasn't the stealing of the election or trying to. None of that was important to you. I always like to open every conversation with saying that I apologize for my own past MAGA activism. And I should also done apologize to you personally because of some of what I said about you when

1:04I was in MAGA. You did not deserve to be spoken of the way that I had spoken about you and the way that I heard others. I knew in MAGA speak about you. You don't, you want to normalize, you said, people being able to leave. And we're speaking now with Rich Logus, Logus, excuse me, who is part of it. I'm a leave MAGA movement. You can see his hat there. I appreciate the apology. I don't remember so many people in MAGA have said such horrible things about me and about others. But what I do, what I've come to understand is that it is a coordinated effort among people who are MAGA in part of that, part of the social media and streaming and just media ecosystem that there is a coordinated effort among MAGA that comes from the top about calling out and demonizing people like me, especially the Don lemons of the world.

2:06Well I was and people in MAGA are addicted to region fear. And the media Don that I consumed when I was in MAGA affirmed and reinforced those addictions to rage and fear. And I came to understand after leaving MAGA that there has been a coordinated multi decade effort to dehumanize, vilify and demonize, Democrats, liberals, progressives and leptists. And this propaganda and agi-prope has been effective. It's been disciplined and it's been consistent. And I don't defend my own ignorance for being a MAGA activist and a podcaster, aspiring pundit. But I realized after leaving MAGA that I fell prey to this propaganda and succumbed to it. And it's why I believe the best approach in looking at those who are in MAGA is one of

3:10empathy because while I don't defend the ignorance of anyone else in MAGA, I think that they have been led astray. And I think that they have had their fears and concerns some of which are valid, exploited and manipulated. And yes, like any large group, there are some people who in MAGA are not good people and the worst elements of MAGA appeal to them. But I think for many in MAGA, I do think that they're good people deep down but have decided to ingratiate themselves into a community that is toxic and one that vilifies people with those whom we disagree. And a lot of it is driven by those addictions to rage and fear. Okay, let me just say. I understand where you're coming from. But as someone who has been the target of this, as someone who lives in this country,

4:13and I'm not a liberal, that's some people don't understand. They call me lib tard and they call it whatever. I'm independent. I don't believe that a political party should tell me who to vote for. But those folks who are in MAGA, which they are grown people, they are grown individuals who should be held accountable. So while empathy, I think is admirable, I don't have much empathy for them simply because they don't have any empathy for me. If they could, because they're trying to actually take away my rights, my rights to be able to live the way that I want to live, who I want to marry, what books I can read, where I can go to vote, and on and on. So if you're not thinking about my family and my rights and the rights that I have under

5:15the Constitution to be treated equally as you are, then why should I be empathetic towards you? No, I think Don, that's all fair. And I don't expect anyone to feel like they have to claddle someone who's in MAGA. No one coaxed or coerced me into supporting Trump and MAGA. I supported Trump and MAGA on my own volition, just like those who are in MAGA support Trump on their own without being coaxed or coerced. But I do think that your point, which is an astute one about coming from the top, those who are in MAGA have been led to believe that there is a they. And I write about a they in my memoir, which I published this year, One Betrayal Too Many. And this they is a group of people, mostly Democrats, who are trying to abridger our rights

6:21and trying to indoctrinate our children, a they who's trying to take our guns, turn America into a communist and socialist country, a they who's trying to persecute Christians. And many people who are in MAGA have allowed themselves to be duped into this way of thinking. And it's when they start to have what do you mean by what do you mean by have been allowed to be duped? That's that's where we're where I'm not getting have allowed to be duped. Are you saying it's a cult? Are you saying that they are? Look, are you saying that they're suckers? I believe that they've been co-opted in some way, but I'm not part of the MAGA movement. I can't say that I really understand the MAGA movement except for they have somehow been convinced by someone that they need to be aggrieved and that they need to fight the other the up the person like me. Yes. Is a reason that they are not getting what is rightfully what they believe rightfully belongs to them.

7:22And to me, there is a huge racist and bigoted component of that. I think that psychologically for me, as someone who's had a lot of therapy, that these people are able to believe that is because they are they want to believe that they are they've already believed that that the people who don't look like them and who are not in their particular tribe are somehow an enemy to the people and have taken away their God-given right because there's a lot of religious nationalism in there to be able to have the best jobs, to live in the best neighborhoods, to have to suffer no consequences for their own actions, to have the preeminent voice and to have the political power and everybody else is second to them. They are deserving of all full rights under the Constitution and the other people are not.

8:22So I don't see that there's some vulnerable child that's being manipulated by a more mature adult. They are mature adults who have allowed themselves to be manipulated or if not to be manipulated, they want to and need to believe that. And that's lost their belief. And that belief hurts me. We spend a lot of time in this show talking about numbers, poll numbers, prices, interest rates, approval ratings coming out of Washington, right, all day long. That's all you hear. But there's one number a lot of people probably don't know about and it actually belongs to you and I'm talking about your blood pressure. And the thing about high blood pressure is that you may feel perfectly fine. That's why you have to check it. That's what I like about 120 life. They make it really simple. Here's what you do. You try it for 14 days. It's an experiment. You check your blood pressure, drink 120 life once a day and keep checking your numbers so you can actually see what is happening for yourself.

9:24No guessing, you're measuring here. And especially right now, when everything seems to cost more and I like that you can try it without making some huge commitment. Go to 120life.com. That's 120. L-I-F-E.com and use the code Don for 20% off. You can try it risk-free for two weeks. If your blood pressure doesn't come down, you get a full refund. Now these statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor. And I think that I stress the allowed part because it's a choice to be supportive of a MAGA. It's a choice to support Trump. It's a choice to vilify others such as yourself. And even I now, having left MAGA, I'm on the receiving end of some of that demonization as well. And remarks that I was never MAGA and I'm a paid Democratic operative. These types of comments.

10:25But I do think Don that we cannot underestimate the many years of vilification that Democrats and liberals have been on the receiving end of. And it has influenced people who are in MAGA. The information they consume, the crisis of misundice information that has permeated itself across MAGA. All of these are factors that have led people to believe that, for example, demographic changes around the country are detrimental to our country and harms us. And that liberalism is the source of all of our ills. When I was in MAGA, we believe that anyone who was not 100% with us was 100% against

11:25us. And I understand why people might say, well, Ritz does sounds like a cult. And for me, there were some cult-like aspects to being in MAGA. You know, I'm thinking about the fact that I had a second family in MAGA. And that second family oftentimes took precedence over my own blood family. And I neglected at times my duties as a parent. How did that happen, Ritz? How did that happen, Ritz? You know, I supported Trump because I was attracted to the burn it all down ethos of his campaign. I believe the two parties were the same. I felt that democracy had failed many Americans. I thought that the politicians cared mostly about the wealthy, the powerful, and their donors. I know Trump ran as a Republican and came from a world of wealth and influence. I admit that I was seduced by the outsider status of... But it sounds like you're talking about Donald Trump when you said, what, wealth, power,

12:30and influence. That's his whole thing. That's his whole stick. I was attracted to the fact that he had no political experience. And I thought that he was the right person for the job to obliterate the established political order and tear it all down and take a flame thrower to the system. This is what I erroneously believed was needed. And now we're seeing what happens when the system is torn down and it results in unnecessary debt suffering and trauma. So we're seeing a disruption to the status quo. It's just one that is antithetical and anathema to our democracy. But it was what I thought was needed at the time. And I saw Trump as somebody without any government experience as the right person to assume the title and assume the position of president.

13:30And I didn't just support him. I worked on the campaign. I was a volunteer. I wrote part of the call script. I recruited Bernie Sanders voters to support Donald Trump. And after the 2016 election, I got deeper and deeper into the, into the MAGA community. I became a podcaster. I was writing for MAGA media. I had bylines in places like Fox and the Federalist and World Net Daily, which popularized the Obama-Birth or conspiracy theory. I spoke at Trump groups. I was a donor of Trump groups. I worked in the 2020 campaign. I owned. So did you like the attention? You like the things? Because this is what I want to ask you and I ask MAGA supporters. So it wasn't the demonizing Mexicans in saying that they're rapists, right? That wasn't like a line for you. It wasn't a line about John McCain, you know, who is a war hero.

14:31It wasn't saying that Megan Kelly had blood coming out of her wherever and now that she's here she is supporting him still. And that's a whole another thing. It wasn't the making fun of a New York Times reporter's physical disabilities. It wasn't the racism and the bigotry. It wasn't the stealing of the election or trying to. It wasn't the paying for an NDA for two women, one of whom he had an affair with who is an adult film actress while his wife was at home with an infant. None of that was important to you that you thought that someone who had those particular traits and behaviors was the person to lead our country not only morally, but the person who had had at least four, maybe six bank ruptcies.

15:32That's what I cannot understand. So I'm trying to figure out like what actually is it that keeps people and that attracts people like you. You said you've seen the light now and I got another story, another question for you after this, but none of that was enough because one of those things was enough for me. I looked the other way, admittedly, on all of it. Being in MAGA was where I was seen and heard and respected and appreciated. In all of that, Don was really intoxicating. It was a community for me. It was a community of such that I had never had before. It is a community that brings a sense of camaraderie, gathering and belonging to the current members of the MAGA community. It is very, and their identities are completely entangled and intertwined with being in MAGA.

16:39It's what makes it so terrifying the prospect of leaving because to walk away from that community and that second family and to transform one's identity is really scary. For me, yes, I wound up going through that process. I paraphrase Hemingway all the time and saying that my epiphany happened gradually and then suddenly all at once. But I fully acknowledge that all of those moments that you, you know, the Muslim registry, the access Hollywood, we could add to that list. I looked the other way on them because I believe that we were in an existential battle politically between those who supported our constitution and our values against all others who posed the threat to it. And that was the they, I mentioned, the they who were trying to infringe our rights and

17:39indoctrinate our children. And I let myself buy into these narratives and realized that I made a terrible mistake believing them and crafting my own persona and identity buttressed by lies, falsehoods, and conspiracy theories. What did your family think about it? Were you married at the time, right? I was. And, you know, my wife, God bless her. I married up. She, she stuck by me after all of this. She was ecstatic when I finally decided to weave Maga and I created a lot of tension in my household. I neglected my duties at times as a parent and as a husband because of my mag to act, mag activism, which was not just something I did. It was an obsession for me. Forget about taking a day off from Maga. I never took an hour off from it. And those addictions to rage and fear created a very, very hostile, stressful household.

18:42And that's my fault. That has not anything to do with my wife. That was all on me. Okay. Let me ask you. What is she, when you were, did she ever try to talk you out of it? No, she didn't. She knew that I was so devoted that there was no talking me out of it. So I had an experience recently where you know I do man in the street. I don't know if you've seen my stuff. So I go out and do man in the street and I was talking to this couple in Times Square. And she, forget if she's from here, forget. He's from here. He's an ex pet, but they live in Germany now. And so I asked her about something politically and we discussed it. She was sort of on the liberal to centrist side. And then I asked her husband, he's like, well, we don't disagree. You probably won't like what I have to say. And he did not, I don't think he came on camera. But he was, you know, a little bit angry, a little bit hostile. And then he walked away and the wife said, no, I actually think I interviewed him. But the wife said, I'm so glad you had that conversation with him because I try to talk

19:46to him about this all the time. And he just won't listen to me. And I don't know what to do. She's not, I don't, I don't, I'm not saying they're getting a divorce or anything. But I just wonder how many women or how many couples who are in that particular situation and they don't know how to get their, their husbands or their wives or whoever, their family member out of this cult. And so my question is, so then of all of that, you're loving wife and your family, what was it? Was it resentment? You said that it was, you wanted to be part of something. Why did you, why would your resentment for people on the left that you, you call liberals or whatever? Why was it so big for lack of a better word, so enormous that it would cause you to join something that was cult like and that was actually detrimental to your fellow Americans.

20:51I, again, I'm asking the same question in different ways. I just cannot understand it. I don't, I don't get, I don't get a megaism at all. I get one of being, being a conservative, you know, somewhat and I get being liberal. Far left. I don't really sort of get that. But I don't know. Ignorance is unfortunately done, really influential. And ignorance in my case, begat a lot of irrational beliefs. And it was after leaving MAGA that I was able to reclaim my individuality, my agency and my empathy because when you're in MAGA, there is no empathy. There's not, for example, a focus on learning. There's no curiosity. Thankfully when I started having my own doubts, I did something that sounds very simple but

21:53was profoundly life-altering and changing for me, which was I diversified my news and information sources. Yeah, yeah. And after I did that, I started. Did you sit in watch box news all day? Well, I was a Tucker Carlson fanboy. You know, I consume sites like, for example, Breitbart.com, which I checked religiously. I consumed all the media that I was writing for. I had bylines and lots of, unlots of MAGA friendly media. And these were dozens and dozens and dozens of articles I wrote where I was never paid for them, nor did I ask for money. But it was after leaving that I became what I like to call a born-again human being. And leaving MAGA was, for me, really good for my soul, my psyche, and my mental health. Because being in MAGA does traumatize its adherence. The idea that we're in a good versus evil battle, I believe, is traumatic for many of its

22:58adherence. And yes, there are some cult-like aspects to it, even though we try to avoid talking about MAGA as a cult, because we don't want to push people further into MAGA. We don't want to give them a reason to dig their heels, and we want to extract them, especially the ones who are having doubts. We're doing a nation-line. That's part of your movement. I want to talk about what you're doing. But just real quickly here, are you a particularly religious person? I was raised Catholic. I wasn't particularly religious in MAGA. I would say I'm more of a spiritual person than I am. So it wasn't the religion thing that... It wasn't the religion thing that drew you to MAGA, because evangelicals are drawn to MAGA. There's a Christian nationalism aspect to MAGA and an appeal there. Are you... did you think of yourself? And now that you've looked back, is it reformed person?

23:58Are you... were you racist? Are you... did you have racist tendencies? Or qualities? I believe that... I do think that there was a panic that I felt about demographic changes. And I thought that diversity, the idea of promoting diversity, was cult-like. That's what I believe at the time. And again, that comes back to my own ignorance, which I have no defense over. I... But my particular question, a direct answer, because I think that there a large aspect of MAGA is racism. Do you think that you were racist? Do you apologize when you came on... When you came on this program almost immediately for what you've said about me? Did you say hateful racist comments? Do you think that you were racist? That part of your racism or personality drew you to MAGA?

25:01I think so, because I was afraid of a shrinking white population that would be... As we become a more diverse country and demographics change, I was worried that as a white person, I would be someone who would be considered a second-class citizen in my own country. So there's no doubt that some of those beliefs were present and didn't form my thinking and some of my attraction to the movement. Okay, that's the answer right there. Thank you for that. That you would be as a white person, you would be a second-class citizen in your own country. Yeah, I believe that. How is it that you're... It sounds to me like you're saying this is your country. That was the whole point of it. And that people like me were not deserving of being in this country, which is mine. Did you understand that quite honestly, the people who built this country for free, you can look at all the history books you want and they'll tell you, were in that people.

26:04And there were others who helped, but mainly it was on the backs of enslaved, black people for free. For free. Did you understand that? When you're saying your country, it's not just your country. No, there wasn't an understanding of that because again, I have my ignorance to blame for the way that I thought and what I believed at the time. And it's true, looking back on it now and trying to inform myself about our history, and it is true that in our country's history, black Americans have been at the forefront of civil rights advancements, whether it was through civil rights or whether it was marriage equality. But that's not what I thought in Maga. In Maga, we extolled and mythologized the founders of America as basically infallible men. And our constitution should have been, it should be interpreted exactly as it was written.

27:09And that's not what I think anymore because I'd like to believe that I shed some of my ignorance as a result of leaving Maga. We're sponsored by Cover On. So I want you to pick up your phone for a second. I want you to think about what's actually on there. Think about that. Your email, your bank account, your password, your photos, your contacts, probably more personal information than you even realize. These scammers know that. The problem now is some of these scams look incredibly real. A text that looks like your bank, an email that looks legitimate, somebody pretending to be a company that you actually do business with. So that's where Cover On comes in. Cover On provides protection that includes up to $2 million for identity theft recovery costs. Up to $25,000 in home title insurance, and up to $50,000 if you are targeted with cyber exploitation or threats, and up to $10,000 if you lose money to scams or online fraud. Because one convincing mistake can be, can get very expensive very quickly. One scam can cost you everything. Protect yourself now. The first 100 users get 20% off with the code Don Lemon at Cover On.com slash Don Lemon.

28:15Again, Cover On.com slash Don Lemon. Use the code Don Lemon. Cover On is currently available to US customers only. So thank you for admitting that. And I wonder are there. Do you think that the men who are in MAGA have very similar sentiment that you have, the attraction and the racism and that they want, they are afraid of being a second class citizen in their own countries? Yeah, I think it is present. You know, there's a lot of panic about demographic changes. The idea that if someone else gets something, then it means that it's being taken from them. That's what I thought at the time, but it isn't true. And it's my responsibility as I see it as the founder and director of this of leaving MAGA as we're trying to form a movement. It is my responsibility to show those individuals that a lot of this, this panic and despair

29:20and fear and rage and paranoia are unfounded and unwarranted. And that's a case that I need to keep making to them. And I need to keep making the case throughout the country that I believe that many of us in our country agree more than we disagree on important issues. That's one of the tenets of leaving MAGA is instead of tearing down democracy like we once wanted to, we need to build it up. And the way that we build it up is making the continued case that we agree on important issues more than we disagree. And I think a lot of people in MAGA, though they might be misguided, I think that a lot of us want much of the same. We want economic opportunity and good schools and a safe and secure country, but they believe that yes, there are others who are trying to take from them. And that is not accurate. Okay, so let me just, a couple of facts about you.

30:23Since you have left MAGA, you founded the leaving MAGA movement or nonprofit and nonprofit that has grown to hundreds of thousands of followers and now runs in person events across the country, mostly, most recently in Iowa. I don't know if you're trying to deprogram people and form them or what. You also have a book called One Betrayal Too Many. By a left MAGA that came out in February of 2026 with a forward from former GOP Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Okay? You publicly apologize for the disinformation and the dehumanization that you spread well inside the movement. You did that to me when you first came on the program. And you say that you had an AR-15 sitting in your passenger seat ready to sell it when the Yvolde shooting broke on the radio. And that was the moment that you say you were done. Why was it that moment? Yeah, Yvolde was the final straw for me. And even though Trump wasn't in office, I knew exactly how he and the Republican Party

31:25would respond and they did as I anticipated, which was calling for more guns and more access to guns. Up until Yvolde, I had spent an entire year mostly in solitude with just my thoughts and I struggling with this realization that so much of what I believe turned out to be wrong and that I had allowed the worst part of myself to come out as a result of being in MAGA. And as a parent knowing what had happened in the day of Yvolde and having gone through nearly an entire year of self-interspection and questioning myself, I knew that that was it. I knew that that was it and I privately and quietly left that day. But it was in August on a few months later when I went public. And the reason I went public was because I'd always been so unapologetically public in my support for MAGA. I felt I needed to reciprocate and I needed to publicly renounce the lies, falsehoods,

32:30and conspiracy theories of MAGA politics. And I just celebrated my four year, what I call leaving MAGAversary, it was on August 30th when I wrote a Mayacolpa and I said in this article that I was sorry for supporting Trump and MAGA and that I wanted to apologize to anyone I may have hurt with my words deeds in rhetoric. And I admit that I was completely naive and oblivious to how many relationships had been torn a sunder as a result of this movement that I had been an act of unwilling participant. Yeah. So my question to you is why should people believe you? I don't know if you've seen what happened with Michael Cohen. He was staunchly anti-Trump. The man went to prison for Donald Trump. And now he was touted by liberals as kind of, oh my gosh, he's seen the light.

33:32He's left the cult. I even did substacts with him. But now Michael Cohen has now become a Trump or somewhat again. He's saying that he was coerced in some way by liberals or the Biden or whatever, members of the Justice Department or whatever to say things about Donald Trump and he is retracted. Again, that's my understanding. No quote me on exactly that. So why should people believe you? I sat down and asked the same thing to Ashley St. Clair. Do you know Ashley St. Clair? Yes. Yes. Okay. So the next similar position is you. Why should I believe you when the things that you believed in and your actions actually put not, they were just detrimental to me and my families I stated earlier, they put my life in danger. I still get letters from the Justice Department from people who threatened to kill me telling

34:35me this person has a hearing on this date. We're moving this person to this block of facility or this prison or this jail. Do you want to write a victim impact statement because they're coming up for parole, all kinds of things. They sent, they called my place of work and said that they were going to kill me. They sent pipe bombs to my place of work to kill me. So I have a hard time having empathy for people, for grown-ass people who are part of a movement that put my life in danger. And so why should I believe you? Look, I have you coming on this. I believe that is an effort. And so I think there are many people like me who are going to say, why the hell should I believe this man when he has done whether he realizes it or not horrific things for which I could have been killed? I think done that the skepticism is fair and warranted.

35:37What I would ask others to think about is I believe that even though not everyone will, everyone is capable of change. And I would like to hope and think that my story and the stories of those where people can read them at our website at leaving maggot.org of others who left that we are living proof that it is possible to change. And we are trying to normalize and destigmatize changing one's mind and admitting mistakes. And I think that anyone who genuinely changes and sincerely seeks penitence, I would ask others to consider offering them grace if they make a concerted effort to start to repair some of the damage that was caused as a result of their decisions and their votes and their rhetoric.

36:38And I would ask that people judge based on the work that we do. And I think if people were to look closely at what we're doing, I think that they would be able to see that we are trying to repair a lot of the damage that we did cause as being a part of this movement that has harmed people. I realized what I had to reckon with was that I had helped the president divide the country and that I was culpable and complicit in amplifying conspiracy theories that resulted in unnecessary debt suffering and trauma. I can understand why someone might find those to be unforgivable offenses. But we would ask that people look at what we are actually doing and the kind of change that we are trying to make and the new community that we're building, where we're trying to give people who are in mag a having doubts, a new destination and a pathway out of the

37:44extremism of magapolitics. Yeah, look, I can forgive. I'm not saying I'm not necessarily saying that I've forgiven yet, but I can't forget. I can't forget. And I think you can understand some of the anger that I have, some of the resentment and the skepticism after having, after living this and every look, you're, you lived it on the other side and you said you left four years ago. People in the other side are much more apt to forgive you than even the magapy people for speaking your own mind. But I think that's what I'm saying. I think that's what I'm saying. I think that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that I'm saying that I'm not necessarily saying that I'm not necessarily saying the magapy people for speaking your own mind. But I can't, I'm not ready.

38:46I don't know if I'm ready to forgive until I see some, until I see what you do and quite frankly what Ashley Sinclair does, and Marjorie Taylor Green, who says, although she still, looney, tooney. So, you know, show me. your actions will be the determinant on what happens with, you know, ex-magafokes. And I wish you luck. I hope that you can deprogram and I hope that you can educate a lot of magapy people now so that we can get our country back to some semblance of a democracy. No, I think that that's very fair and I would ask people to judge based on not what we say but on our actions and what it is that we actually do. Well, Rich, I appreciate you for coming on the show. I appreciate your candor and stay close. I'm going to be seeing what you do and maybe we will have you back. And if you're ever in the same city, let me know and maybe we'll sit down and talk about this in person, okay? Thank you, Don. I appreciate you having me on.

39:50Thank you very much. Thanks for watching everybody. I appreciate you. Make sure you like, subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss anything. We're live weekdays at 10AM and 5PM Eastern with new content at 2PM Eastern, sometimes at 8PM. So follow the Don Limonce show wherever you are. YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch, Substacks, Spotify, Ihard Radio, Apple Podcasts. We are everywhere and we're there every day. And if you want a little more, join the Limonce community, exclusive posts behind the scenes, live chats, just hit join or check the channel pages. All right, I'll see you next time.