Why JP Miller Pursued Mica Since She Was TEN

0:00This is the Big Breakdown. A long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers with Tony Bruce. Micah Miller. Have you watched the doc yet? Death of a Passers-Wife on Netflix? Woo! JP, they're coming for you. The Calvary is coming for you. Now we're falling out of your car laying in the grass of your yard. I'm talking crazy like you do. That's a crazy mother after. Am I opinion? Micah Miller. Call 911 at April 27th, 2024. She was calm.

1:00She asked the dispatcher if they could trace her phone. Then she said she was about to end her life. And she wanted her family to know how to find her. We've been talking about this case for years on and off. A lot of people have left it looking like threats for talking about this case. And then Netflix just kind of put it all out there. Two years later, Netflix puts on the three-hour footage and a screen about the man she was married to and settling the world is enlightened about the transgressions and about the modalities that are alleged of Pastor John Paul Miller. And what came out is staggering.

2:02If you already know the case, you already knew that, knew that, oh, didn't know that. Oh, my God. What happened? What? Friends and family spoke on camera for the first time. Sermon footage played in full. And the woman who was closest to Micah said things about John Paul Miller and it makes me physically think to even think about what I heard in this documentary. We're going to talk about it. John Paul Miller has played not guilty to federal cyberstalking charges and denied every allegation against him. He has declined to appear. Those are the building blocks of this case. He denies everything. So that's important. We're talking about our unproven allegations that were made in the documentary. Some are going to be litigated in courts, some are not. But these are, these are what's in the dock. These are the five most disturbing things

3:03that came out about him anyway. All right. Here we go. Number five, his own sermons. Not secondhand quotes from news articles, but the actual footage from the Solid Rock Church stage in Murdle Beach, his voice, his face, his congregation and the pews. I love the fact that the attorney that's going after him downloaded every single one of them. And now has an all on a record. And it's amazing how much projection is going into these sermons. When you look at what he's preaching about and what's actually going on in his life when you can compare the two, the accusations of what's happening in his world, how much crazy projection is going on, and how much control he's trying to wield at people. He preaches it a wife who doesn't meet her husband's needs, has committed a sin on the level of the worst defenses he can name. He tells the room that if she refuses temptation will appear

4:04in front of her husband before the day ends. He tells the women that their husbands will find someone else if their needs go on met. And the failure is theirs. Or John, you could just have a little thing called self-control and not F anything that moves. I don't know, maybe that's the alternative to your wife or the many underage women that you've allegedly admitted to doing horrible things with and that have made accusations against you. Maybe you should just say, not going to do that, not going to be a creepy mother-eifer, not going to be a predator. You could just do that, you could just decide, you know what, the predator lifestyle's not for me. Not expecting the people you're praying on to go, let me just give it to you. You're a predator, I'm your prey. Because that's essentially what you've been preaching.

5:04You ignorant fuck. And anybody who attends your church, who still does attend your church, they deserve anything that's coming to them, including being hit by a bus. Micah Miller was in that room when he gave this narcissistic bachelors crazy sermon to his congregation of delusional minions. She was a worship leader, it's solid rock. Since she was 16, J.P. officiated her first marriage even. Newer when she was in the youth group, you know, like every good predator pastor does. Get a mother in the youth group. She became his personal assistant, and then the babysitter for his children, while he was married to another woman.

6:05And then the woman he laughed his first wife for, you know, like Jesus. Oh wait. And he said all of them the pulpit. When he talks about it from the pulpit, you know, it's like, woo, if I tell you I do all these horrible things, what are you going to do to me? The church post to the sermons on its own website. Nobody in that building stopped him and nobody walked out. He built the theology that allegedly justified everything he did to her, and he did it in front of hundreds of people. And they're all like, praise the Lord. What he preached matters later. Number four, Micah's family attorney, Regina Wardah ledges a John Paul forced Micah to take his own lithium prescription. Medication prescribed to him, not her. Wardah ledges, he put the pills in Micah's food without telling her. No lithium prescription from Micah appeared. Any medical record that surfaced during the investigation according to Ward.

7:09John Paul's position according to reporting, the Francis family opposed all medications on religious grounds. Well, it's not exactly medical grounds. If you're sneaking her drugs that her doctors aren't giving to her. That's not medicine. If Ward's allegation is true, he was allegedly drugging his own wife with a powerful psychiatric medication. She didn't know she was taking. Wardah ledges at John Paul admitted he would cut Micah's pills up and give them to her when she refused to take them. Lithium without proper dosing and monitoring can cause confusion and disorientation. Behaving that looks exactly like the mental health episodes, he later described to her doctors. He allegedly created the symptoms. Then he pointed to the symptoms as proof. She was unstable. Before the marriage, according to Ward, Micah had no psychotic or psychiatric diagnosis inside it. She had a drug in her system. No doctor had prescribed her allegedly.

8:09Number three, Micah siblings. Several of them speaking publicly for the first time alleged that John Paul called a mental health facility and initiated an involuntary commitment against Micah's will. He allegedly told her doctors she'd stopped taking her medication and had threatened to harm herself. She was locked inside for three days. Her family alleges they weren't allowed to visit without John Paul in the room. While she was there, her siblings alleged. He took her car, her phone, her laptop. The laptop, they say, contained intimate photographs of Micah. Federal prosecutors alleged in the indictment that an intimate photograph of Micah was later posted online without her consent. They showed her to the Netflix doc, the very picture that J.P. In the interview with NewsNation goes, that's it. That's it. It happened. Want a fucking bet? You narcissistic fuck? Want a bet?

9:10John Paul, they're coming for you and they're going to get you. They're going to keep on coming at you, you fool. And they're going to take your ass down. Psychiatrists eventually told police it was a marital issue and released her. Micah reported the seizure of her devices to police. After she got out the harassment allegedly didn't stop. She called police after finding a piece of metal jammed into her tire. Mechanics that her dealership found a tracking device attached to her car. On March 11th of 2024, she told officers she was afraid for her life. Federal prosecutors alleged John Paul purchased a tire deflation device online and sent messages to others about Micah's car. He allegedly lied to FBI agents about all of it. So according to Micah's family and to federal prosecutors, he allegedly locked her up, took her devices, put her most private images online,

10:13slashed her tires, tracked her car and lied to the FBI when they asked him about it. You know, like every good preacher. Every one of those steps allegedly happened while she was trying to leave him. When you have the power of God behind you, though, I guess you can do anything. I think that's like people like, how does someone do this shit? When you believe you're infallible, when you believe the horrible things you're doing are justified because they reach a greater means. A means that's greater than anything you could understand. But only I could understand. That's called grandiose thinking. It's a lot of what narcissists do. I know better because I'm just more wise than this past or this relationship with God and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's how that thinking works. And I can guarantee he's still running that game in his mind. He's delusional as fuck. And he'll be this way for the rest. You're not going to change John Paul Miller.

11:13He's going to go kicking and screaming into prison. Which hopefully Rufus will be waiting with a sharp broomstick ready to welcome in. Come on, John. We got some work for you to do over here. Where's the top of that broom? You want me to do some sweeping? There is no top needed. We sharpened it. It's ready for a whole. Come on, John. Let's bring it to you. Number two. We're in a paybond, a solid rock congregation member, and one of Micah's closest friends speaks publicly for the first time. Paybond alleges that Micah confided in her that John Paul demanded she will be available to him multiple times every single day. If she refused, paybond alleges he wouldn't let her sleep. He'd keep her awake until she gave in. Another friend, Charlotte Cornelage's Micah told her she wasn't allowed to get out of bed before John Paul woke up.

12:16She couldn't leave her house for more than three hours. Cornelage says John Paul would call at the two hour mark, then 20 minutes later, that in shorter and shorter intervals until Micah came home. If she didn't leave when he wanted her to leave, he'd show up. Friends' alleged Micah took testosterone at John Paul's encouragement to keep up with his demands. When they would alter it and strained her voice, Micah was a worship leader at solid rock, the congregation loved her because she could sing. He allegedly pressured her into taking a hormone that damaged the instrument she was known for so she could serve his needs. He allegedly took her voice, the one thing the church stayed for. A text message from John Paul appeared on screen. He tells Micah, she can't treat someone this way and leave. He tells her to act or to act like a godly wife and put the marriage above her family, her friends, and her own feelings.

13:16What he preached in public that a wife who refuses his failed her husband is according to Pebon, exactly what he allegedly enforced behind closed doors. He talked about it in public. Former church member, Erica Rar says that when Pebon told her what Micah had described, Rar was physically ill and number one. I think you know what number one is if you watch the dog. Pebon alleges that Micah told her John Paul paid strangers off the street to commit acts against her body without her consent. That's the cleanest way I can put it. He allegedly brought people into their home and forced Micah into encounters she never agreed to. Kind of diddy style allegedly with people she'd never met. When Micah fled to her sister Sierra's home to get away, Pebon alleges John Paul threatened to show up armed.

14:19John Paul's a lot like Diddy in a lot of ways, isn't he? I mean, at least the alley, if you take the allegations against Diddy and you take the allegations against John Paul, you're like, ah, similar monster. Similar grandiose narcissistic monster, if you believe the allegations. And what the hell is it with these unhealthy idiots having this weird obsession with other people doing horrible things to the person they supposedly love and care about? What is that? That's some weird self-loathing shit right there. Because you see it in the diddy case, you see it in this case. It's probably supposedly so secure in themselves, so big in their egos. And this is like what they get off on. I mean, it says a lot.

15:19Every revelation on this list is worse than the last. And every single one allegedly built on the one before it. The sermons told the congregation a wife who refuses commits a sin. The medication allegedly clouded her mind. The hospitalization allegedly removed her from her own home. The devices he took allegedly gave him control over her most private images. And then according to Micah's closest friend, he allegedly brought strangers into their home and subjected her to things she never consented to. What Micah's friends and family describe isn't one act from a man who lost control. It's an alleged system built to tighten around her till she had nowhere to go. Micah called 911 on April 27th, 24. She asked the dispatcher to make sure her family could find her. She filed for divorce twice the first time October 23. That filing was just missed in February 24. This same month, she was allegedly hospitalized against her will. In a handwritten affidavit accompanying the second filing, she wrote that she had been abused emotionally, spiritually, financially, and physically.

16:22John Paul was served those papers on April 25th, two days later. She drove to Lumber River State Park in North Carolina. John Paul Miller has pled not guilty to the federal charges of cyber stalking and making false statements to investigators. His trial is scheduled for October. We'll cover it here. The day after Micah died, he stood at Solid Rock at the pulpit, preached the full Sunday sermon, and announced her death at the very end, calling itself induced and telling the congregation, don't talk about it. The FBI rated a property connected to him in November 24, a federal grand jury indicted him the following month. Then he married fellow church member Susie Skinner, in June 25th, a woman whose own husband, a quadriplegic army veteran, drowned in the neighborhood pool in 2021. Under circumstances, the Hory County Corner's office is still rather reviewing. Go incidents. Solid Rock Church closed after Micah's death.

17:26The property sold for 2.1 million to a developer. John Paul started a new church down the road. He calls it mercy church. Susie leads worship. The same role Micah held before. Micah Miller was 30 years old. Your thoughts on the comments section on Substack and YouTube. There's a lot more to come in this case. I can guarantee that. If you want the inside in on it, then press subscribe. Wherever you're watching or listening right now. And in the comments, give us your thoughts. Take us with you wherever you go and podcast. Form the QR code is right there on the screen. All you got to do is scan it. It takes you to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube if you're already there. And you can press subscribe. Take the audio with you wherever you go and podcast form. Do that. We do appreciate that very much. Do hit subscribe. All right. Until next time, I'm Tony Bursky. We will talk again real soon.

18:34This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Bursky and Robin Dree. Death of a pastor's wife. Maybe you've seen it. It's on Netflix now. If you are not familiar with the JP Miller, John Paul Miller's saga. And Micah Miller tragedy, it's a great place to start your journey of going down that road. We've been covering it here on the show for the last several years, kind of on and off. But now there's obviously there's federal charges against JP. And the documentary pretty much holds nothing back in a nutshell. JP Miller met Micah when she was just a teen agent. Some accounts have it all the way to the age of 10. At 18, he officiated her first marriage to another man, Jeremy Diaz. It's only to later make her his personal assistant and then initiate an affair with her and have her as his daddy.

19:34Well, he's married and then he married her himself. That's the lead up. That's the life before the death of Micah Miller. And we're going to get into that. We're going to get into life after the tragedy and even more today. But we want to kind of work sequentially through this. The coercive control years, if you will, everything that led up to the death of Micah Miller. Here to help us do that. Chavon Scott, psychotherapist and author as well as Robin Drake, retired FBI special agent, chief of the counter intelligence behavioral analysis program. Watch this doc, like I said, if you've not done so yet, news nation also did a great, they even had the man who did the interview on the doc. I can hour with JP about a year ago. I remember I think I was on Bandfield that night talking about it and it is, it's just stunning to watch. It's stunning to watch the behavior of JP Miller as he believes how he's he's coming across as a competent human being.

20:40It's just you got to watch it to fully grasp. Let's start with the long game of grooming though, Chavon. The documentary reveals the timeline. JP met Miller as a teenager, officiated her first marriage at 18 eventually inserted himself into her life as her boss, pastor and lover. People on the outside looking in, seeing what happened here going, oh my god, he totally prayed on this woman. Her side looking in at that moment in time, it's a love story. This is someone that she trusts that she's cared about that it's been through many moments of life with her on. How is it that we're able to have such very different viewpoints depending on how close to the sun we're flying? You know, I thought it was a great documentary. I watched it on my laptop and I really had the urge to wipe the whole laptop down the pan. So I kind of got it up to her.

21:40Of course, throw it out. Oh yeah, it was just, he is such a slimy person. But yeah, the grooming I think is common, particularly in certain kinds of churches. I certainly saw it in the church I grew up in. But I saw her as a sad teen. You know, her sisters brought out that there had been a divorce in the family. It impacted her tremendously. And she turned to church. She turned to faith. And I think she became obsessed with it. And I pretty much did the same thing. But it left her vulnerable. And her faith became her identity and her purpose and her coping mechanism. And where she put her emotions. And it was just integrated into her personality in a very, very, very deep way. And that set her up for a guy like this, a predator. You know, there's so many striking things that is Shivan that just the red flags were waving numerous times.

22:48I thought, and I'm curious because, and I know editing has a lot to do with this, especially making Netflix special and things like that. But every time they're showing the church congregation and JP preaching, he's got some sexual theme going and submissive sexual theme going. I mean, years ago when we were very church-going family and in laws and everything in the way we grew up, I never once heard any of those themes in church once. Yeah, it, again, editing could have been it. But it sounds like it was a recru- they weren't playing the same clip again and again and again. And so I'm curious. What, you know, your interpretation was it an intentional grumid of an entire church? Are these people self-selecting into this? I mean, how come this group of people that were then tithing and giving money to pay him? For this messaging yet the same time, you know, as Amy Dugger King has said on our show,

23:50beautifully from the Duggers and IBLP, you know, that they cherry-pick portions of the Bible they want to use to their own gain. He was totally doing that, but for such a long period of time and sexualizing the entire Bible and the subjugation of women. How does that happen? I was baffled at the fact that his church kept growing, you know, they said it started off, which is a handful of people. And this is where we go back to the cult word. Yeah. I mean, you have this carousel, I thought he was a cook, but apparently a lot of people found him funny, they found him charming. I mean, this is all cluster B stuff, right? You could play the piano. Oh, like Jerry Lee Lewis, right? Who also married his 13-year-old cousin. Yeah. But yeah, it was shocking to see the people.

24:51And you know, I always am careful of a church where everybody waves their hands in the air all the time. And you know, that was my church too. There was a lot of that going on. And you know, but these people were into it. And it was like he created this closed system, this kind of us versus them. We've got it. We're the most loving group and how they sucked people in. You know, people talked about, oh, I just went and they made me feel so good. That's classic cult stuff. And then this sexual compulsion, my God, you could do a case study on this guy's sexual behavior. Multiple birth. Really is. He abused the heck out of her sexually speaking of Micah. And it's allegedly an old man. It brought in homeless. Allegedly. Yeah. I mean, all of these are allegations against him. He's never been convicted of anything. He's never been charged with with a lot of there has been some charges.

25:52But a lot of these are allegations. I should say that. But do people in environments like this, is this a group that's susceptible to fall into one of these churches and to see a person like JP on stage? And yes, he's charismatic. He's intense with the way he delivers a message. Is that intensity often mistaken for authenticity with groups like this where it's such a gray line they don't quite have. The ability to identify someone's real intent or even the depth of the meaning behind the message that's being given out because the intensity is so engaging. Because some of the things he's talking about, where he's talking about his wife and it's all about submission to him. And if they refuse it, then they're going to find somebody by the end of the day so you better give it up to him when he asks. I mean, it's like holy shit.

26:53And then this congregation just like keep going JP. Right. But he's delivering with intensity and that that carousel that those preachers have. Oh my gosh, this is the word of the Lord. Tithing time. You know, I mean, that's people. It seems like the more the more intense some of these people can be, the more people eat this shit up. Whether it's good or not, it's just like it's like the spigot is on. And they're just, they can't fill up their pictures quick enough. Yeah, they bought into it and I have the same thought is who would be bamboozled by this? Who could sit and listen to this, right? And then I go back to me at 13 when I was listening to weirdo pastors. Maybe at 13, I would have been fooled by the intensity. But boy, I would have sure grown out of it pretty fast. But this focus on sexuality in his sermons. And this thing about wife cannot say no.

27:55And so basically this powerful guilt for any woman that would be listening to that and feel like, well, you know, this is just what God wants. And so confusing this obedience thing that women are the help me and are there to serve the husband. And the husband is the power in the family and the control. It creates a lot of self doubt in the women. And I'm sure there were men who thought, hey, this is pretty good. I like this, you know. But again, there's apparently a lot of people who just don't have insight. And it would be interesting to have some interviews with people who may be wondered in and got creeped out. And so yeah, this was just over the top. I really wonder, kind of like with IBLP and the Dougers, where they... It attracts predators. And I really, again, innocent, proven guilty, just conjecture, thought experiments, all those things.

28:57I'm really curious about how he grew his congregation. Was it because men were dragging their women to this? Or was it vice versa? Because he's putting out a message that's great for predators. Exactly. And people that... or predators. People that want to take advantage and subjugate people in their lives like their women, their wives. Because that's... Again, it blows mind. He was so consistent on kept preaching this subjugation and cherry picking out of the Bible. Yes. What he wanted to. Did people like that even know? Do you think he knew that when he's writing out his sermons or picking out the direction he's going to go with it? Is there the active thought process there in JP's mind and unconjecture here? I really need to make this one land this week because of what's going on in my life with Mike at home or whenever. If I tell to the congregation that this is how wives should act and see everybody's doing this. And you should do this too.

29:57Is that... Is even aware that he's doing it. I guess it's a question or is it just... For someone like this, this is just the modality they have and their modality is manipulation. And manipulation is a manipulation to them. It's just a way of life. Yeah, I'm going to guess this was conscious on his part to some degree. But it was all self-serving. It was his defense mechanism. The way the guy moves through the world. And the other thing I wanted to mention, you know what my term for most of these folks cluster be? Because you see this overlapping with narcissism and the psychopathy, the manipulation, the lack of a conscience, the hidden rage that he would take out on Micah. All cluster be, but the big one that really hit me over the head that we don't always see is the histrionic personality. This guy loved an audience. Talk about doing big, dramatic emotions. And a histrionic person wants the eyes on them all the time.

30:58And they're not happy when they're not in front of an audience. And yeah, he really was. You put him on that piano and he lit up. And he was on fire internally when he was preaching. You could just tell how satisfying this was to him. So I think this is just his way of moving through the world. Highly manipulative. And people like this do they have insight into what they're doing? To some degree, but sometimes it's just the way they think. Yeah, Jenzee's put a lot of great comments in for us this morning. I thought this one was really good because I think it begs kind of a question and an interpretation here as well. He thought it was okay. But to me, he's also saying, hey, I'm a little unsure whether this is okay or not. So I'm going to put it out there for the world to validate it is okay. So is that part of it also? Could be. Yeah, certainly he wanted validation.

32:00Look for justification. And he got the validation, which is the crazy part. And the other thing that struck me was when he's busted, right, with the affair with Micah from his first, you know, first wife, Ali. Yeah. And this came out from Ali finding texts on his phone and then Micah confessed everything. The rationalizing of the group that well God forgives everybody. And this is part of their theology and their belief system. But the history on again, the scene, so many scenes that just really I have my notes again from the scene that just jumped out at me when he was rolling on the grass sobbing. Oh my God. Weird little boy. Oh my God, yes, I know. I think he knows what he's doing and that's something that's worked for him. Well, he does something horrible. It's exposed.

33:00And then he cries. And that is so manipulative because he works his way back into the fold, worked his way back into being the pastor. And that should have been for savvy people, a sign of, we've got a guy with a character logical problem here who is not suited for leading any group of people. And I know this topic has come up a lot, you know, covering a Lindsey Clancy case and people have been arguing about performative and not performative. We've used other cases as examples of what performance in a courtroom looks like and doesn't look like that is performative. When you saw him bawling on the ground like a two year old, that is performative. Very much. Talking like this with his head. Oh my God. I mean, I just want to put him out his misery. Oh, yeah. I mean, history on it. Let's talk about that for a little bit to help people understand a little bit more. I mean, that's an interesting thing because like when it's presenting itself in relationships without a camera,

34:02and it's just interpersonal, I mean, it can be very destructive. And a lot of times, at least in my experience with folks like that, they seem rather clueless as to the destruction path that they're leaving in their wake. It just seems to be their modality. Here's me had a camera that followed it around. But the desire for the attention, the desire for the chaos seems to be like unquenchable in so many cases with these people, which is why interpersonal even without a camera, it's just like, what are you doing? Like, why are you continuing this sort of behavior that just is utterly chaotic and just leads to problems? I mean, he's getting the feedback from society of like, what you're doing is not right. Like, this is messed up, this is weird, this is wrong. But the attention is there, the attention gets more intense, the crazier shit he does. Does that just feed a historic person like this when you're in that sort of a position of power with a preacher hood or whatever you call it,

35:04or a pastor, I know what it's technically called, but having a congregation that listens to you, does that just feed that sort of madness, the toxicness of a historic personality, because it doesn't matter if it's good or bad. The feedback is there, the feedback exists, and the energy is being put back at your madness, and that just feeds it. Doesn't matter what if it's good or bad out of them. Yeah, it really doesn't matter as long as the eyes in the room are on them. It's a compulsive drive. Look at me, look at me, look at me, and everything I saw with him from, as I say, his playing the piano, to his preaching, to his attempt at humor, which none of it I found funny, but people in the congregation laughed. And folks like that, this is so much a part of who they are, when we talk about who can be treated and who can change, and what are the odds of that? Folks with historic personality, they never get it. They don't have insight. They don't want to change, and so this is a very poor prognosis for somebody changing or improving.

36:10The other thing that it's so shocking about this is, as they noted, in our chat, and also when you watch a doc, he's on his third wife. Each one of these wives came from his own congregation that has seen this entire show from the inside, so it's not like he's going out in the public and grabbing one that has no idea of history, no idea of anything that's going on. And yet, and his church even talked about, at least Micah did, about how divorce is against the churches, against God's will, and yet he's doing it. So are these, it's hard to imagine that you have an entire congregation of people that are completely unhealthy. It's just not realistic. But at the same time, you're seeing people inside his church agreeing with him, going along with him, and then saying, it's okay to marry him. Are they all, so Shavon, are you, you've seen these things from the inside? Are they all, are they all unhealthy people, healthy people that are wrapped up? How does that happen to a group that is largely imagined composed with people that don't have malformations of brain, don't have chemical imbalances? Are they all broken? Or they just sucked in by something else?

37:24The word that pops into my head is naïve, and people that have a very strong emotional need to be led, and they can, I mean, I think a lot of really broken and people who are dependent, you know, and you may not be a mentally ill person, but you can still be a highly dependent person. And so when you include the fact that they're naïve, and he's very persuasive, I mean, not to us, but to, apparently, to a lot of people in the congregation, he could use scripture, and of course they can't question scripture because that's part of the whole thing, and the way, you know, from what I've seen in my own experience in these churches, however the pastor interprets scripture, people buy into that, because that's just part of, you know, part of the system. But it does have a cult-like quality, and I think people who are essentially healthy people, they don't have personality disorders, but they're needy, they're vulnerable, and they're prone to following charismatic cult leaders, and I think this was on the edge of something like that.

38:38Yeah, I mean, without a doubt, it's shocking to watch. And obviously we can't diagnose him, so we don't know if he's truly israna-grana, but that's our conjecture and opinion based on the observations that we've seen. Yeah, we can say we can't give a DSM diagnosis, but we can certainly say observable behavior. A observable behavior. No, observable. People call them a nutter. Yeah, he's officially a nutter or a fronter. Or just the slime ball, either slime ball, nutter or slime ball. All of the above, all of the above. Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack and YouTube as we continue our conversation about death of a pastor's wife, the story of pastor, and I put it in air quotes because it's like you're not a pastor. Pastor JP Miller, John Paul Miller, and the death of Micah Miller.