Why Do Wokes Support Islam Despite Apparent Ideological Conflicts? (A Serious Investigation)

Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into one of the most paradoxical political alliances of our time: the surprising partnership between modern progressivism and Islamism.Why do groups that claim to champion LGBTQ+ rights, feminism, and secularism repeatedly align with a ideology that often rejects those very values? From the Iranian Revolution to "Queers for Palestine," this episode explores the ideological overlaps, cognitive dissonance, and shared strategic goals that make this alliance stronger than many realize.Topics include:• The "oppressor vs oppressed" framework• Treatment of homosexuality vs. gender transition in Muslim societies• Shared hostility toward Western civilization• Why suffering of "their side" is often irrelevant to both movements• Historical betrayals and future implicationsA sobering and unfiltered analysis of modern political bedfellows.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be discussing Islam and the left, which have been bedfellows throughout recent history. Obviously they were very strong bedfellows during the Iranian revolution, which we will discuss how that ended up happening. And they all were then killed afterwards.

It was very much like the sheep siding with the wolves, only for the wolves to feast on the sheep as soon as they got what they wanted. B- pretty witless, and I think could be a sign of... Like, obviously there’s the famous picture of the two young progressive girls in a car cheering the rise of the new ayatollah, and both of...

One of them was killed by his regime, and the other one lived their life as a refugee.

And so, you know, not good for them historically when they’ve done this. But I wanted to better understand why and how these two things are compatible. And people can just say, “Well, they aren’t compatible, Malcolm,” and I’m like, surely [00:01:00] progressives don’t think that, right?

Like, surely progressives have looked into this and have some sort of thesis I just haven’t taken the time to understand. So what I did, and what, what I, what I wanted this piece to be, which unfortunately it can’t be, and I’ll explain why in just a second-

Simone Collins: Oh ...

Malcolm Collins: is I wanted to go through on some sort of, like, well-reasoned progressive piece on why Islamism and progressive values make such good bedfellows.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And that we would go through this piece and I would explain, “Well, this doesn’t really work here,” or, “They actually have some points here.” And very, very interestingly I could not find any such piece.

Simone Collins: What? How... That seems

Malcolm Collins: implausible. Right? I assumed they must be out there everywhere, right?

Like, I was like, they must have, like, taken the time to, like, grok, digest, and explain this.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Because it seems like a contradiction, and there were a [00:02:00] lot of progressive pieces- Well,

Simone Collins: The Free Press tried to m- to make an explanation of this.

Malcolm Collins: No, they didn’t. No, they didn’t. What The Free Press did, ‘cause I read that article, that was one of the ones I read in preparation for this-

Simone Collins: Okay

Malcolm Collins: Is they tried to, they basically just said, “This happened before with the Islamic revolution,” and then they went over a few things from that. But that wasn’t, that didn’t really explain why the progressives thought this was okay.

Simone Collins: Okay, so you’re just talk- Yeah, I guess your, your argument is that isn’t an explanation, it’s only a history of the alliance.

It doesn’t explain the underlying reason for the alliance.

The, oh my God, when you move around your room, it sounds like your room is the Star Wars trash compactor. Like So

Malcolm Collins: so, I ended up running ahead and being like, “Okay, let’s see if I can find any of these,” right?

And what I did find, so I’ll go over what I did find a number of. I found, like, six or seven of these. And there appear to be near infinity more, is progressives muldering over the fact [00:03:00] that people thought that they were unaware that Muslims... Like, like making fun of them when, like, Netanyahu said that gays for Gaza is like KFC K- fried chicken, or chicken for KFC, right?

Like, and they, they really hate conservatives making fun of them for this. Huh. Okay ... being unaware that in these groups that they say they wanna help, they do want to kill gay people. Like, that’s in the Quran. You know, you stone somebody for being gay. That’s Sharia law, right? Like, this is part of their tradition.

Hmm. It happens regularly across these countries.

Speaker 2: What would happen to a gay couple in Gaza?

Speaker 3: Executed according to Islamic law. Islam doesn’t endorse gays. Islam doesn’t endorse homosexuality. Just like Canada doesn’t endorse a lot of things. So would you like to see Sharia law in Canada replace Canadian law? At some point, it will. . One day we can have a Muslim majority nation here in Canada.

Right In your face!

Malcolm Collins: And what those articles did, which was very frustrating to me because it didn’t provide a [00:04:00] logical explanation, they basically just said, “Netanyahu’s government has said homophobic things as well.” And that was obviously very unsatisfying for me because I was just like, well, I mean, yes, it’s a right-wing government, but, well, like, when you say said homophobic things, like he said he’s comfortable being called a homophobe, he doesn’t support pride marches, he doesn’t support you know, gay stuff being taught to kids.

He, That is not the same thing as having a government policy of murdering gay people, okay? But they’re sort of trying to equivocate the two. Or they will note that there have been some gay people who have been killed in Israel by members of the general public for bigoted reasons, right? And they seem to not be able to tell or assume that their audience won’t care that that’s different from something being carried out as a government policy.

Mm-hmm. E.g. just [00:05:00] random homophobes versus the government will kill you. I mean, they’re, they’re obviously very different, but the core thing that I basically realized is they see being mildly... And I guess this makes sense if you look at their wider actions. They see being mildly uncomfortable with gay people or uncomfortable with trans people or disagreeing with their ideology as equivalent to a government policy of institutionalized killing of gay and trans people.

But- But think about their actions and this makes sense. When they say that like, “Oh, Trump’s government’s going to get rid of me.” Like remember when Trump was elected and a bunch of gay people were like basically saying, “Oh, Trump, we’re gonna be eradicated now that Trump has come into power.” Trans people being like, “Trans people in the United States are gonna be mass genocided after this.”

They talked about this, like that this was something that was going to happen to them. And I think that we as conservatives were not listening to that. We heard it and we thought it was funny, [00:06:00] but we didn’t understand that actually in their minds these two things are functional equivalents. Slightly disagreeing with them and or saying, “I personally would not live this lifestyle,” and saying, “We’re gonna build a government policy of killing you.”

And that’s why they have reacted so harshly. That’s why they keep doing these assassination attempts and stuff like that, as I’ve explained in other videos, because they think that this mild disagreement is the same as murder.

Hmm. Hmm.

And then that justifies everything that comes out of this. But I wanna get into where these two things are surprisingly okay.

Like, why do Muslims keep siding with the left, right? Like, why, why do they appear to make good bedfellows? And at first I thought, well, maybe there’s some policies in Muslim texts, because I, I found a few articles arguing this. These were from Muslims trying to explain to progressives why they should be friendly with Muslims.

Oh. [00:07:00] And they went over Muslim teachings trying to argue that Muslim teachings are inherently socialist.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: This comes down to things like the zakat which is one of the five pillars, which means that you’re typically donate around 2.5% of wealth assets above a threshold to the poor, needy, debtors, or travelers.

This is... I mean, it is socialist-like, but Christians have just as many parts of the Bible that they could point to and say “This is socialist-like.” You also, Have sorry. So but then you can say, “Okay, well, if this was the case, can we look at the Gini coefficient of Muslim majority countries to see if it’s higher or lower than equivalent other countries?”

And Gini coefficients of Muslim countries are enormously higher than other countries. They are some of the-

Simone Collins: Famously so, yes ...

Malcolm Collins: yeah, some of the most unequal societies on earth. So then the question can be, okay, why do they... Because I don’t wanna ask, like, from a right-wing perspective how are these things the same.

Like, as right-wingers we can say [00:08:00] they’re both totalitarian in the way they attempt to approach things. They’re both very fascist in the way they attempt to approach things. They both hate Western civilization. They both, you know, like, we can, we can throw all of this out here, right? But to the left, those explanations aren’t really gonna hold as much, right?

So where do the left, like, really actually agree with them and find this co-solidarity? One is the issue of them killing gay people actually isn’t a big an issue to modern leftists as you would think.

Simone Collins: Explain this to me

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so if you look at Muslim countries one of the things that they do, that they’re known for doing, is gender transition, right?

Where if somebody is same-sex attracted, they are pressured into gender transition, and then they just live as the gender, and then that’s not gay anymore, right? You know, this is something that’s common in places like Iran. Now, not all Muslim countries do this. We’ll get to the other ones in a bit. But also...

But I guess I’ll just come out [00:09:00] and say it. If you go to other Muslim countries, like Afghanistan and Iraq, they have extremely high rates of same-sex relationships. They just- Right ... don’t contextualize them as gay. You j- you can still be killed for being gay, but a lot of people are gay.

Simone Collins: So they’re, like, having gay sex, but no homo gay sex.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. It is, it, it’s, it’s typically of a very specific kind. It is either with underage boys, and that makes it not gay.

Simone Collins: No homo.

Speaker 5: A private party is underway in Kabul. In Afghanistan, women are not allowed to dance in public, so boys are dressed as girls and made to perform. The ancient practice of Bacha Bazi, or dancing boys, is widespread, involving orphans or boys from poor families as young as 10 years old

They are often sexually abused and raped. [00:10:00] This is child trafficking. The boys are abducted and taken from one province to another. The children are kept in the company of powerful armed commanders and forced to become dancing boys.

Malcolm Collins: Or it’s with people who have very large age gaps. So-

Simone Collins: It’s almost like, you know how if you multiply two negative numbers, you get a positive number, right?

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Right. And so, like, if you, like, combine PDF files with, with, with homosexuality, it becomes- It’s fine

virtuous.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it cancels out. Yeah. They’re like, “No, it’s, it’s...” I’ve, I’ve joked before. They’re like, “No, it’s fine. I d-

Simone Collins: It

Malcolm Collins: cancels out ... I know I hooked with a guy, but he was underage, so it’s not a problem.” Yeah,

Simone Collins: I get it. I get it. Sure.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and you see this, actually. We see pictures of, quote-unquote, “gays” from these countries and the gay, the, the younger gay is, like, in their 20s.

The, the older one typically looks like they’re in their 60s or, or, or something, right? Oh,

Simone Collins: ah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, you typically see very [00:11:00] big age... The age range gap goes up as they get older.

Speaker 7: Basically it works like this, or appears to. , You would say something like, “Well, okay, so they sleep with underage gay kids, , but what about when they become teens or something like that? Who are they sleeping with?” And the answer is, is there enough of an age gap so that we in the West would find it creepy?

Then it’s okay. If there’s not that much of an age gap, then it’s not okay

Malcolm Collins: But one- That is

Simone Collins: so gross ...

Malcolm Collins: what I’m saying is, is not all Muslim societies are as... And as to why you get this phenomenon, I had a whole video I was going to do on this.

It’s mostly because the genders are so separated that,

Simone Collins: The opportunity is not there for women

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, basically the... Well, yeah, and they mostly socialize with other men, and the prohibitions on doing it with minors aren’t very strong in these countries or not a- acted upon often. And so, just because that’s all they’re interacting with they, they form these relationships more often.

You know, if you’ve had Muslim male friends, you know that they’re more handsy [00:12:00] often than other people. You know, like, hand-holdy and stuff like that, when in our society we see that as romantically coded. And they’re like, “Oh, it’s not romantically coded in our society.” And it’s like, well, I mean, it kinda is romantically coded in your society.

You just don’t frame it as romance when you have male-male sex, right? So one, you, you do have that phenomenon which normalizes gayness in the left when they see this, right? They, they ignore all the problematic parts of this and it normalizes it. But then the bigger point is, is even if you take the societies where you have first gender transition, which is okay in most Muslim societies,

Simone Collins: there we, there we go.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, you got it right in the middle I made a little middle shot right here.

Simone Collins: You got it bullseye.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. All

Simone Collins: right, keep up the

Malcolm Collins: practice. I can do a little closer so you can see. Look.

Okay,

but the second issue on the gay thing is that if you have forced gender transition, and it’s normal in a Muslim country, that means that these countries have an implicit level of trans inclusivity that you may not even see in Western society.

Oh, yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah. And [00:13:00] famously trans people go to Iran to get cheap surgeries because they can do that there. And then once they’re trans, you know, it’s okay, they’re safe, et cetera, right? Now what’s fascinating about this is if Muslim societies can be argued to be okay to gender transition, right?

It actually doesn’t particularly matter in the eyes of the modern left if they kill gay men. Because gay men are seen as kind of right-leaning these days. Like they’re they’re gay white men, as they say, are the new white men, you know, within these spaces.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because you have this Olympics of oppression hierarchy that they’ve sort of built among themselves.

Simone Collins: And you have Trump’s big gay White House on top of it.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. This is a New York Times article where they’re pointing out just how many of the leading Republicans are gay now, and it’s a lot of leading Republican staffers are gay now more than in the Democratic administration. And that’s just the Republican Party now.

We can get into why. I, you know, is this a good idea for the Republican alliance or whatever? But it is a fact. [00:14:00] You know, our, our best get out to voters like Scott Pressler are gay. Our, the biggest donors are gay Peter Thiel and stuff like that, right? Like, it’s a very gay party now. And as a part of this, the left has sort of kicked out gays at least male gays from the wider leftist coalition, or at least they don’t care about them that much.

So if you are coming at this with a ‘90s Republican mindset and you say, “Don’t you care that they’re killing gays?” You may think that they’re undergoing some huge level of cognitive dissonance when they’re like not part- you know, not particularly, right? Like, “I’m, I’m more interested in these things that Israel is doing.”

And you may think, oh, they’re, they’re sublimating this, or they’re not really engaging with it. And what you may not be grokking is they don’t really care. You might as well have gone to them and said, “Do you care that they are killing white males minus one?” Right? Like minus one oppression point, right?

And they’re gonna be like, “No, of course I don’t care that they’re killing white males.” Do you care that they’re killing Jews? No, of course I don’t care that they’re [00:15:00] killing Jews, right? We’ve also gotta keep in mind that as soon as October 11th happened, and we’ve gotta keep this in mind in terms of the wider, like, leftist mindset, so we sort of check in where they are.

This is when they had, like, brutally murdered over 100 people at, like, a peace rally, right? You know, right outside of Gaza that was a bunch of teenagers, right? They had the big musical peace protest with Gaza.

Simone Collins: Oh, right. Yeah, that’s, yes. It wasn’t a protest, it was a concert.

Malcolm Collins: It was a, it was, it was, it was for peace.

They were trying to, it was for- Yeah, it

Simone Collins: was a concert for peace

Malcolm Collins: that was happening on

Simone Collins: October- In

Malcolm Collins: promotion of, yeah. So they, they raided it. They took the women as, as s- s- smack slaves. They raped them to death. Like, it was absolutely brutal, absolutely terrifying. But on the same day that this had happened, and on the day after this had happened, before Israel had tried any sort of response yet there were parties at American college campuses cheering, and you, and you can find videos of this. We talked about this when

Simone Collins: it

Malcolm Collins: happened.

Simone Collins: Oh, right. The attack.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, cheering the October 11th attack. They were excited about October 11th. Leftists were, right? They [00:16:00] saw this as a fundamentally good thing that this had happened. And so, and this was their side that was being attacked, right?

Like I’m not, I’m not saying Jews are their side. I’m saying the, the peace-going teens for giving Gaza more rights who were a big part of the casualties in this attack. And they just didn’t care. And I think that this comes to a second point which is important to note, and it’s actually a huge overlap between the two groups.

They really don’t care about any degree of suffering, pain, or death that happens to people who are similar to them or share their value system if it couldn’t be seen as serving the greater cause. So to them, as is the case with many Muslims, so many Muslims don’t particularly care about what’s really going on in Gaza.

They don’t care. I mean, obviously, or they’d take Gazan refugees when not a single Muslim majority country has done that, right? So why aren’t they taking Gaza refugees? Well, the reason they aren’t taking Gaza refugees is ‘cause they, well, one, because they keep trying to kill everyone when they get [00:17:00] to a country and start a revolution.

But two they, they, it, it’s more than just not taking Gaza refugees. They are intentionally inflaming the situation with Gaza. Like consider Iran. Iran has been repeatedly, up until we started dealing with them, inflaming the situation with Gaza, inflaming the situation with you know, Israel and its, its, like Lebanon, its various neighbors which they know makes things qualitatively worse for the Muslims living in these regions, Muslims that share their political agenda, that lead to them being indiscriminately killed.

But that is a complete non-factor in their sort of global geopolitical calculation. Suffering of people who are like them is irrelevant, and this is the, something that the two groups share. Another thing that you have to keep in mind is from the position of modern leftists There really isn’t a suffering calculation that they’re making in regards to the things that they’re doing.

It’s the other side has to lose, our side [00:18:00] has to win, and then they just determine who is their side. Like, fundamentally, that’s what they care about at the end of the day. How does the Islamists end up looking like it’s their side? Because they are clearly in opposition to what they are opposed to, which, I mean, at this point you can only broadly say I think what most people would think of as Western civilization, but they found other words for it.

When they say the patriarchy, what they really mean is Western civilization, right? They don’t mean really a system of ma- because it’s not anymore a system of males at the top. I mean, women are predominantly the ones graduating from college at this point. If you look at lower professions, they’re overwhelmingly in managerial positions much more than men are.

If you look at younger people, women out earn men, right? Like, they are the dominant faction. So if, if this is the case, then why do they still want this destroyed? Because what they were really keying to was this broader idea of Western civilization, which makes them very, very [00:19:00] aligned with each other.

And then to go to the, the next point here, which I thought was really interesting, is socialism more broadly. There is nothing about a Muslim coming to power where they would not take a socialist stance. Any Mus- by the way, any thoughts before I go further, Simone?

Simone Collins: No, I find this very interesting.

Please go on.

Malcolm Collins: So suppose I am a Muslim coming into power, right? Like I, w- we’ll go back to the imam, right? You know, I’m, I’m trying to take over Iran or something like this. I want to get support from people in other communities, right? Now, I can’t go out there and say, “I plan to kill gay people,” or something like that, or, “I plan to implement Sharia law.”

That’s not gonna do well in the West. That’s not gonna do well at a whatever rally or anything like that. But if I go out there and I’m just like, “Look the system as it is set up is currently in the favor of rich people,” and by this, you know, they’re thinking Zionists and stuff like this, [00:20:00] capitalists.

Again Jews typically fight for capitalism historically. People just ... The people who think Jews are, like, pro-communism are ... The, the it is true that they were disproportionately represented within the Russian communist movement. However, they were proportionally significantly lower representative than they were in capitalist governments.

Right. So if, if b- you contrast, like, the number of Jews in US politics versus the number of Jews in leading positions in the communist government in Russia, dramatically lower. And of course, the communist Russian government then attempted to kill all the Jews, right? Like, one of Marx’s books was, like, The Problem of the Jew, right?

Like, it li- literally, like, that’s ... They’re very clear about not liking Jews in leftist philosophy. And so these two things sort of aligning, like, we want to attack business interests, we want to attack big business we want to attack the Jew, and I think that this is why this is, in part, become more common in leftist thought right now.

That [00:21:00] immediately appeals to the Islamist as well, right? Now the Islamists can say, “Oh yes, we’ll do redistribution of some kind. That’s within Islamic values.” And the leftist hears socialism, right? Now, of course, when they have used leftists to get into power, they have not enacted anything that looks like what we would consider socialism anywhere else, like in Iran or something like that, because they don’t really care about these things, but they don’t have a problem saying them, right?

Like, they’re not gonna say to the leftists, “I’ll support gay sex,” or something like that. But they will say to the leftists, “I will support your economic agenda.” And we’ve actually seen, you know, even recently in America, you can look at, like Zohran Mamdani coming into power, right? He has pushed much harder after coming into power on the pro Islamization of Manhattan than he’s pro- If you look at, like, the czars that he’s put in power, these people who have said, you know, really horrible things, globalizing patata, like kill, in, in patata.

We- like, “I hate white people. White people should be killed,” stuff like that. [00:22:00] Mentifada. Okay ... into major positions within his government, right?

And, and they’ve begun to implement their plans in regards to sort of like a broader Islamic mass migration agenda. Whereas they haven’t actually done anything in regards to, or not very successfully, in regards to his social programs.

Like his grocery stores, you know, they’re, they’re barely moving ahead at this point, right? And this is something we repeatedly see. You know, they appeal to the leftists to get the vote, but they don’t actually care about the leftist economic policies that much. And the leftists, I want to tell you the, the big secret truth about modern leftism, they don’t particularly care that their social policies and economic policies get implemented either.

Once- Hmm ... they, th- their real goal is the destruction of the civilizational system- Mm-hmm ... so that they can build something new. So, they’re, they don’t, they don’t think to hold to account. They’re like, “Zohran, where’s all this leftist stuff you said you were gonna do?” They don’t actually care about that, because that was never really the point.

They basically know they’re on team, and team is the destruction of Western civilization. [00:23:00]

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Or at least you know, right now sort of directionally the destruction of Western civilization. And I think that this is where we can see why the gripers have so naturally slideed into this alliance. And, and Nick Fuentes’ whiter faction has, you know, recently s- coming out and saying, “I’m a moderate non-woke Democrat.”

And again, think about where I’m pointing out that the Islamists and the leftists actually fit in really well, right? So they come in here and they talk in the eyes of, like, Karl Marx, like, the problem of the Jew, the Jewish because, you know, they can’t do usury, they can’t do interest charges.

Actually, Christians aren’t supposed to, either, but they don’t, nobody follows that anymore. Wait,

Simone Collins: really? Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, Christians, or at least historically from the Catholic Church, we’re not supposed to use usury or interest rates at all. And then people realize that’s, like, economically retarded and leads to really bad downstream effects for society.

Which it does, by the way. It’s really bad for society to not use interest rates because then you don’t have a reason to invest. And when a society doesn’t invest in its continued production, it advances at a much slower rate which is one of the [00:24:00] reasons why Islamic countries are so poor. Well, many other bigger reasons, but back to this point.

The point here being is, is they come out there and they say to somebody like Nick Fuentes, “Look, I am against the greedy businessman code Jew,” and he knows what they’re saying code Jew, right? And he thinks, “Well, what’s really important to my agenda right now?” Right? Mm. It is seeing Jews removed from positions of power, right?

And so I can work with Islamists on that. And more than that, if you listen to what is Nick Fuentes’ broader goal for Western civilization it is to see it collapse. Now, his belief is that after it collapses, after the movement of right-wing party collapses, that he will be able to build a new right-wing party in his vision, a new version of Western civilization in his vision which by the way is, is, is very explicitly not something that most of his followers would want, but they just don’t listen to what he’s saying.

It doesn’t really matter. The point is, is he won’t be able to do it. He doesn’t have the numbers. Even if he did [00:25:00] create the collapse that he wanted to create, whatever was built from the ashes would not be Fuentes-y, and it wouldn’t be Catholic-y either. If you look at those parties right now and their relative political influence and the, the growing or shrinking of their political influence, and the people who are like, “Oh, aren’t a lot of, like, online influencers joining the Catholics?”

I- just as a side note here, One, as I pointed out before, Catholics lose eight converts for every one they get. Protestants lose two converts for every one they get. And even with the recent movement of online influencers into Catholicism-

Simone Collins: Not converts, right? Do you just mean eight practicing Catholics for every new convert they win?

Malcolm Collins: Yes, they lose eight practicing for, on the statistics. Okay. But this has changed a bit. Re- people can say, “Oh, maybe it’s a bit better now.” The problem is, is that a lot of online influencers, and this, that we’ve seen recently are coming out as more explicitly anti-Catholic which wasn’t a thing for a while.

So an example of this is Redeemed Zoomer did a video basically coming out as anti-Catholic.

Simone Collins: Really? [00:26:00] Wow.

Malcolm Collins: And he used to be a very pro-Catholic streamer. And basically what he said was that in the online space, what he has realized is that the way that the Catholics have treated him when he has made mild criticisms of their religion really reminds him of when he was a progressive, the way other wokes treated him.

And he realized that a lot of the stereotypes that he had heard about Catholics from Southern Baptists and stuff like this he had initially discounted because he was being overly rosy to Catholics, and he didn’t realize how aggressively totalizing a, at least a, a portion of online Catholic culture was.

And they, they took over his subreddit at one point, basically, and like, were using it to attempt to convert people. And he, he, he basically said, which I thought was an interesting way to put it was he decided to go into Catholic culture and instead of having his faith in whether he was a Protestant shaken, he ended up having his faith in whether or not the Pope was actually the Antichrist shaken.

Simone Collins: Wow, okay.

Malcolm Collins: So pretty big. [00:27:00] And Redeemed Zoomer is a very nice and understanding person. So what I’m saying is we’re seeing shifting tides around where this is going in a lot of directions right now. And this is a new shift that we’re beginning to see. But the point being is, okay, so I’m a Nick Fuentes.

I wanna see a collapse of Western civilization. Directionally, the Islamists and the progressive both are on point for me. I am excited when negative stuff happens to Western countries, ‘cause that brings me closer to the point where I think I’m gonna be able to sweep up all the cards off the table, the point of collapse.

Hmm. Which is, again, comical. He just doesn’t have the numbers, the technology, the money or even his allies with cultural factions. Like, even if the Catholics wanted to do this, they would be scuttled by the Vatican at this point, right? Like, if they ever did begin to build a large movement a la what Nick wants to do, the Vatican would immediately do everything in their power to denounce it and demoralize it as we’ve already seen them do through...

And people can say, “Well, people just wouldn’t listen to the Vatican.” It’s like everyone wouldn’t listen to the Vatican, but enough would for it to cause [00:28:00] some damage especially if they attempted to sort of- engage their on the ground forces that are still loyal to them in countries like America, which have a lot of power.

Yeah. And can do a lot to scuttle, especially a movement where your you know, foot soldiers are going to mass, and these people control what’s being said on those pulpits. Because you cannot move around churches as easily as a Catholic as you can as a Protestant. So if they ever decided to go scorched earth against this, they absolutely could.

Mm. This was actually really fascinating. We were talking with one of our Catholic fans about this, and they pointed out how you, you don’t go to, like, the parish you like best as a Catholic. That’s seen as, like, really bad. And to prevent you from performing too strong an attachment with any one preacher whatever they call it in Catholicism, they switch them out regularly, like if one becomes too popular.

Whereas with Protestants, you typically go wherever is most popular for you, which at the end of the day gives the Vatican ultimate control over what’s happening, even at a local level. But the point I’m making here is there actually isn’t ideologically, like in terms of [00:29:00] anything they want in the moment, any particularly large point of conflict between the modern far leftists, the Islamists, and the griper.

Like, they’re all completely on message, on team in regards to what they want to see accomplished which I think is really interesting. Thoughts before I go further, Simone?

Simone Collins: This is more sobering than I thought it would be.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And by the way, if you want to understand, like, what they’re saying, so this is Judith Butler, by the way, at UC Berkeley.

And this was about Israel and Hezbollah, right? So, Judith Butler is, like, leftist icon, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, understanding Hamas, Hezbollah as social movements that are progressive, that are left, that are part of the global left is extremely important. This does not stop us from being critical of certain dimensions of both movements.

It doesn’t stop those of us who are interested in non-violent politics from raising the question of whether there are other options besides violence. So again, a critical, important [00:30:00] engagement... sorry, entanglement. I mean, I certainly think it should be entered into the conversation on the left. I similarly think that boycotts and divestment procedures are, again, an essential component of the resistance movement.

Mm-hmm. So very, very pro this stuff. And, and note they have been in the past. So here I’m gonna go over Richard Falk, a Princeton professor of international law who met with Khomeini during his exile outside of Paris. And this was the evaluation he offered of Khomeini in The New York Times, by the way, so mainstream leftist publications.

Yeah. Keep in mind, this is the guy who ended up mass executing all the leftists who supported him in his country.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: Just so you understand how little this matters to them. And the left just does not care that this happened. It do- When you try to bring this up with them, you are losing, because they don’t care that they persecute people like them.

It is irrelevant to their world perspective. So to continue, he t- he wrote, “To suppose that Ayatollah Khomeini is dissembling seems almost beyond belief. His political style is to express his real views [00:31:00] defiantly and without apology, regardless of consequences. He has little incentive suddenly to become devious for the sake of American public opinion.

Thus, the deception of him as a fanatical reactionary and a bearer of crude prejudices , “Seems certainly and happily false. What is encouraging is that his entourage of close advisors is uniformly composed of moderate, progressive individuals.” But they both mean this and do not care that it is not true once it is proven not true because they do not care when people are killed.

And I think that that’s fundamentally the most important thing to note about this. To them, people being killed are just like scorecards for their larger system, and if you come into an argument with them focused on the people being killed they won’t care. If you go into an argument with them like what actually happens for civilization, right, like 100 years, 200 years if [00:32:00] these groups gain power they don’t care.

And this is why, you know, when you point out things like, well, if you shut down the AI center, right, like this is gonna have enormous economic consequences and groups that like we have, have, have social policies and social values that you would hugely disagree with-

Mm-hmm ...

like the CCP, although they don’t seem to be aware that like the CCP is anti-gay as well, much more anti-gay than the United States they, they anti a lot of the things.

But again, but again, they don’t care about anti-gay because anti-gay doesn’t matter. What matters is the trans agenda, right? At this point. And this is again where I think it makes sense for conservatives to ally with gays where we can, even if we can say, “Well, we disagree with your lifestyle we won’t in law, in institution prevent you from living it.”

I, I, I think that that’s an easy compromise that we can make and get a large faction on team that has been abandoned by the left and is, if I’m honest, disproportionately productive. If you look at I, I don’t know why this is the case, but if you look at top designers, top chefs, [00:33:00] top a, a lot of things, they’re often gay males.

They’re, they’re pretty good at design and influence. So if you wanna win the entertainment war preventing gay males from working on team is, is, is not a really bad not a really great strategy. And I think that this, what, what I have been incredibly heartened about in sort of like where all this is going, because yeah, you can say this is really sad, is that the wider movement really seems to be shaping out the way I predicted it would shape out.

And I mean, it was wild when I first sort of made these predictions or were thinking about this, is that the Groyper faction has moved to solidly form with this leftist alliance, right? Like they just wanna tear down society, you know, and, and stick it to the Jews, and they don’t really care about anything else that happens.

Whereas the, Part of the right, like the stodgy old right they still have voting power, but they don’t really have any control within institutions, like within the administration or anything like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they, they vote and [00:34:00] whatever. They’ll eventually die off. A lot of their streamers and stuff like that used to have relevance, but they’ve gotten a lot smaller.

We’ve done a number of videos on, like, what’s the real size of a lot of these people. And then in terms of the, the tech right, which is our side, and people will say, “Well, that’s not even right-wing.” Like, when people strongly assert that Asmongold is not right-wing, I’m like, “He is the very heart of what is the modern right.”

Yeah ... like it’s j- that’s literally like cutting out someone’s heart and being like, “This isn’t Brad.” It’s like, whoa, put that back in there, buddy. That’s like the core of Brad. Well, I mean, in terms of the new right sort of media ecosystem, it, it comes downstream of Asmongold. And note here if you look at As- like, what does Asmongold think about, like, forming a coalition in which gays can be members, but not necessarily, like, privileged members or something like that?

Or, or th- we don’t have to conce- concede to their lifestyle or choose their stuff. He’d be like, “Yeah, that’s totally normal,” right? And it’s not just Asmongold where you see this growth. [00:35:00] It’s the entire ecosystem from Leaflet to Rev to Nux to Clownfish TV to Bearing to, We’re increasingly seeing

This wider ecosystem both become more cohesive in terms of a intellectual force, and I think develop a internal coherent philosophy that is more than just anti-wokism. And I think this coherent philosophy we’re actually seeing a lot more. Leaflet has done a good job. I mean, her brand of, like stellar humanism is so simple to understand.

Yeah. And so easy to be like, “What I care about is long-term human flourishing and the c- conquering of, you know, our manifest destiny within space.” Yeah, it’s

Simone Collins: very elegant with its simplicity.

Malcolm Collins: The- very simple, very elegant. Everyone can just be like, “I don’t care.” Like w- when we have a [00:36:00] disagreement and w- and the reason why that very simply framed philosophy is useful, is it’s like when we have a disagreement, we have this shared point of does it hurt long-term human potentiality?

Does it limit long-term human potentiality?

Exactly,

yeah. And so, you know, whether it’s a religious disagreement, or whether it’s a, a disagreement on strategy, or whether it’s a disagreement on economic policy, it doesn’t fall down into this standard because within the ri- wider, like, new right coalition we have very diverse perspectives, as I put up.

I mean, like Shoe0nHead is very clearly in the coalition, and Kami Mommy, right? Yeah. And sh- for people who d- weren’t sure about her, I mean, she did a stream with Smug Alana, okay? Like, in terms of, like the Vtuber where, you know, you got your Kirishas, your Smug Alanas, your Banana whatever her name is.

And then you’ve got the growth of, which I think is going to be increasingly important, this is where I’m seeing it, the Skyrest Cinematic Universe. Yes. I think things like this, the using AI entertainment as a [00:37:00] cultural weapon in a society that has begun to retreat from this is going to be so powerful for the next generation.

Especially with kids and stuff like that, getting them involved in this stuff is going to be a really powerful way to sort of push things forwards. And the other thing I like about stellar humanism is it removes all of the dogmatism of the right. Like, the right doesn’t have to follow, like, all...

It’s just the people who care about what is actually true and want thriving. And Western civilization seems like the correct way to win if that’s what you care about, so all of these people care about Western civilization, not out of a love of Western... Now, you can love Western civilization for its own sake and be part of the coalition, but you don’t have to, which I like.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, what I’m also seeing from what you’re saying, what scares me maybe more on the left isn’t this interest in taking things down and breaking. E- what scares me even more is this intentional blindness to the negative ramifications or harm [00:38:00] done. Almost like, you know, they’re Muggles and the harm done is magic.

Like, they just can’t see it. They’re It’s not even like an unwillingness to see it. It doesn’t process. It doesn’t register, and that really scares me

Malcolm Collins: Human harm is completely irrelevant from their moral calculations because-

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I don’t know. I feel like it, there’s something deeper there, that it’s not just about irrelevance, but like some inability to see or recognize it or acknowledge it and, and for it to process

Malcolm Collins: meaning to it No, it has to do with how they process reality.

So-

Simone Collins: Yeah ...

Malcolm Collins: I can go to a leftist and I can say, “You know, Hamas is putting its terror centers under hospitals and schools.” And, and they can say, “Well, yeah, I understand that, that’s why Israel is bombing them, but Israel shouldn’t bomb them.” And I say, “Well, okay, well so think two steps ahead. If Israel stops bombing a hospital every time they put their network under a hospital, they’re going to put their networks under hospitals disproportionately, like exclusively going forwards, which [00:39:00] further puts those people in harm way, right?

And allows their force to grow, which is provably victimizing their own population.” You know, as we saw after Israel’s withdrawal, like executing people on the streets and stuff like that, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They, they victimized their own people much harder than the IDF did. And it’s, it’s, this second order narrative is not relevant from sort of a pain calculation to them because they only care about pain in a narrative context.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Like how do they strongly paint themselves as the good guys in a world with this oppressor versus oppressed framing? Like that’s the way all of society is structured. Everyone needs to be categorized this way. And and, and they don’t really think beyond that. This is like the average street level foot soldier.

If you’re thinking of the higher-ups, like the people who are like the actual intellectuals in the movement they fundamentally just don’t care. Like the higher-ups want a destruction of civilization- Hmm ... or what we would call Western civilization, and they understand that that’s gonna come with death, [00:40:00] right?

Hmm. Like, this is where the, you know, kill Nazis, everything like this. They know they’re talking about average everyday conservatives. They just don’t care.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Well, I h- I, I don’t wanna say I hope that’s the case. I, I’m, I’m more afraid of what I think is more real, which is a blindness that would cause a profoundly higher level of death and, and destruction and pain, and that really scares me.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, it’s coming, right? Like, that’s where society is heading with current immigration rates in Europe, with the current cultural movement we see in Europe and potentially within the United States. You know, like, if, for example, I took a position as president or of a political party that I was influential as, we would be dramatically more aggressive than Trump is being right now in terms of how we handled citizenship and how we handled communities that had already gotten hooks into America in a way that was just deleterious at this point.

Simone Collins: Presumably just in enforcing our [00:41:00] laws.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. Well, I mean, that’s where they’re trying to go right now, right? Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I think we need new and stricter laws, frankly. Oh ... I think there could be laws about... Here’s an easy law, right? If you become a citizen of the United States and you ever go on any form of government assistance, I think you should lose your citizenship if you became a citizen within that lifetime, right?

Like, we’ve talked about this.

Simone Collins: Well, a right to vote. At very least, right to vote.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, I just think you, you lose your citizenship, you get removed. If you’re not

Simone Collins: a productive member-

Malcolm Collins: Well,

Simone Collins: I disagree ... if you’re not a taxpayer- I mean, there, there are,

Malcolm Collins: there are times in everyone’s life, including, you know- Right

childhood and old age- And there are times in everyone’s life when they do not require government assistance when that happens to them. If they have a healthy community that supports them, if they have healthy religious institutions that support them and as many immigrant groups used to have, and they become destitute during a part or they lose their job at part, I am okay with them staying in the country so long as they don’t try to get government assistance.[00:42:00]

It is the attempting to get government assistance that I think that should be the disqualifying. And maybe even make it a two-

Simone Collins: So you would just eliminate government assistance, then?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I guess it’s a better way to do it, because I wanna be able to use it to remove them. So, if you’re on it for, let’s say, two years and you don’t shut it down before then, you immediately get put on a deport list.

I think that that’s an easy way to handle it. I also think that any of them that commit a crime, any crime, no matter how small, immediate deportation. Hmm ... and I think th- this can go to financial crimes, anything tied to fraud, especially about the government. Like, this stuff we should be... Or deportation with some form of review, right?

You know, you, you could say that, right? So basically, if it appears that they are culturally assimilating, you keep them. If it does not appear they’re culturally assimilating, you deport them

Simone Collins: I suppose. I mean, I mean, it’s, it’s complicated, right? Like, you could have a system like that be abused by people who create trumped up charges to try to get rid of people who are business [00:43:00] competitors or in other forms inconvenient to them, even if they-

Malcolm Collins: Right

merit- But I think that the social harm of that is significantly lower than the social harm of allowing in large groups that are exploiting the system. So like I understand that you can’t, you can get negative externalities from implementing anything.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The negative externalities of that are a lot less than the negative externalities of the amount of fraud that our social safety nets are under, are under right now.

It isn’t going to the most vulnerable people in our society. Like, that’s who suffers from this fraud.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I mean, you know, y- you would have to moderate the rule that you’re proposing here because we can’t support vulnerable people in society if anyone we support gets deported.

Malcolm Collins: No, I said, I said if they are an immigrant.

Simone Collins: Oh. I don’t know, it’s just easier to have a rule of like, you can stay in the country as an immigrant if you are a net taxpayer.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but that’s harder to calculate I [00:44:00] mean, you can do it if you wanna try to calculate that, Simone. Apparently you love making difficult math Well,

Simone Collins: we’re speaking in, in hypotheticals here, so yeah.

I we could also presumably simplify the tax code.

Malcolm Collins: It’s way easier- But- ... to just say if they pay, if, if they go on government services.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I guess you’re right.

Malcolm Collins: Exploit government services. So anyway interesting conversation. Any final thoughts?

Simone Collins: This was interesting. This was scary. That is all I have to say.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Now excited for the next one.

Simone Collins: I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you too

Simone Collins: The first thing I do to try to get out of bed in the morning is put on... Like, I just open YouTube and I see what the algo has for me ‘cause it’ll help wake me up. And typically it’s, like, Asmongold or something else that I watch routinely. But this morning it was some video about, like, it, it, it had, like, almost a million views and it had just been published about the Gen Alpha melody.

It was a fascinating, like, little just, like, did you know about this thing? And there are hundreds of songs that have come out that have the same [00:45:00] broad melody, and it’s kind of incredible how pervasive it is, and I just didn’t realize it until he put all of them together. It’s really interesting stuff.

And the first... One of the earliest versions where you can find it is Lady Gaga’s Bad Romance. That’s the melody, the Gen Alpha melody which you also just... You see it everywhere, all music genres, all languages, w- Western, Eastern, it doesn’t matter. South Korean, K-pop, random Russian songs. Really, really fascinating.

And I just love that there are random people out there to explain things like this to me. All

Malcolm Collins: right.

Simone Collins: And to talk about them and how they rise and why they exist. Like, we have YouTube now. Remember when we had to look things up in, like, the encyclopedia? Do you remember? Did you have those CD-ROMs of Encyclopedia Britannica?

Do you remember the opening sequence on them? It was such a thing. I [00:46:00] guess. Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, I’ll get started.

Simone Collins: Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 8: I did. It needs four batteries. Wow. That’s a lot Are any of the batteries in incorrectly? Is that maybe why he’s not turning on? Yeah. Have you checked? Take a look. Make sure they’re all in right. Toasty, can you check? You’re our quality control man. No, I, I know what batteries are and how to put them in.

Speaker 9: Let Toasty check, Octavian. He’s our quality control man. Oh, you know what? Take out this one, take out this one, and take out this one. And then I’ll do, and then I’ll do that, and then I’ll do this one

Speaker 8: Yes, I’m a great [00:47:00] bunny That’s so nice How can we get these other cells? If you press on the side opposite the spring, you can kind of push it out using the tension from the spring

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