What’s the right way to address your boss?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Available now on the documentary from the BBC World Service. Russian is the first language of millions of Ukrainians, but it's also the language of their enemy, and its public use is now heavily curtailed. Does that prevent the spread of Russian influence or is it to deny of the very liberty Ukraine's fighting for? Join me Tim Huell to hear from both sides in the language battle. Listen now by searching for the documentary wherever you get to your BBC podcasts. Hi, I'm Hannah and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service.

1:02And today we're talking about power, about hierarchy and workplace culture. After a clip of a billionaire businessman in Nigeria, correcting a young woman who addressed him by his first name has gone viral. And we're going to unpack this today. I'm speaking to Basma Alati, who is our reporter in Nairobi. Kenya, hey, welcome back. Hey Hannah, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm really good. Thank you. So tell us a bit about what happened in this video and why it's blown up. So it was this really short video of Tony Elamella, who is the chairman of one of the biggest banks in Africa, UBE. He was getting questions from a graduation class that was trained by his bank. So that's technically can be considered like one of his students. She said, good morning Tony, she didn't say Mr. and then he corrected her. He said, no, you cannot call me such things. You have to say Mr. then he added that I don't subscribe to that kind of Oibu life.

2:06It means Western or white culture in Nigeria. And yeah, the video went viral and everyone is talking about it and who's right and who's wrong. So this has, as you say, it's really got people talking. It's opened up big conversations on generational differences in the workplace. We're going to hear some more views from that now. So I'm speaking to Adiria and Shidera in Lagos and Jehovah in Abuja. Hi, welcome. Thank you. How's it going, man? Yeah, good. It's great to speak to all of you. So I want to get your views on this video. I want your first reaction to what you thought when you saw it starting with you. Adiria, first reaction I left because I thought it was B40. Then I also feel bad for the girl. What about you Shidera? I just anticipated the entire opera. I knew that it was going to be a big problem because it's almost for BDN in Africa. So call someone who's older than you. But that's a amount of years by their first name. And then put into consideration also ranking in terms of, okay, this is your supposed to be maybe like a senior executive.

3:10And also with the fact that Gen Z generation already has this stereotype where they get older and Adiria and feel like we are disrespectful. I mean, in loads of different companies you do call your boss by your first name. I call my bosses by their first names. It would be kind of weird, I think, if where I work. If we went around using full names, but obviously this is a very cultural thing. So what did you think? What did you make of the video, Jehovah? At first I was very scared for the girl because I just knew that the internet was going to be on her head and not wanting to look at things with a lot of nuance, especially in this part of the world. I have been in the corporate world for quite some time as well. So I know that in some spaces that their first name policies where you just have to call your superiors and your team lead, your supervisors by your first name. So just maybe she was trained to address the executive with your first name or her superiors in the work environment, but it is good to be pragmatic and just read the room.

4:14So tell me a bit more about naming conventions and how people in positions of authority are addressed in Nigeria. It depends on who you are, your background and over your years of experience, what's people regard to you as? I host events and when you're introducing your guests, you need to make sure that you try everything within your capacity to do your own background check and see what achievements your guests or the person in question have basically accomplished throughout the years. And it is very much requisite that the culture by as in this part of the world, you basically address these people by some, Mr. Professor, Chairman, Chief Executive. Adir, yeah, a lot of people in the comments are talking about respect that this girl didn't show respect to someone who was senior, powerful in a position of authority. Do you think that these naming conventions are about respect? So, Gen Z are very much not so in tune with how cultural Nigeria can be.

5:19Way back when it's always been a thing of like when you see a elder as you respect them, you bow your head back, gritting, or literally just post-truth on the ground. That's like really, really traditional values, you know. And then also at the same time, it's like this is somebody who's affluent and in the position of power, you understand. So it's like those two things combined, that's why people felt like, she must show him this kind of respect. The culture and the way things are moving now, the way Gen Z are now like the ones that are the most actively work for things that now shift in, in places like tech and stuff like that. So I think it's more common now than ever that you would call your bosses by their first name. Tony Alumelo or T-O-E for short. So, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. It's not the new ringer or T-O-E, I've been through a lot of problems. Is she there? What do you think is changing in the way that Gen Z speak to each other and address older people in the workplace and other things as well? This also depends on the particular workplace in question. Yes, Gen Zs and younger people are getting more exposed to global workplace cultures and

6:24honestly, it feels like there's a clash with the traditional African workplace culture that existed before and older Nigerians are trying to keep those cultures and values. So it's creating some sort of tension. I'm currently the youngest doctor in the team. In medical profession hierarchy, it's very extremely emphasized. You can't even question it's as much of a fact, you cannot call your senior doctor, colleague, by their first name, by any chance. You can't even dream of it. However, in other sectors, like I said, banking sector, multinational, of course, I'm sure it's something that is changing. Thank you all so much for speaking to me and for sharing your thoughts. Thank you guys so much, man. Have a lovely day. Thank you, too. So, Basmab, we've heard a bit about how this has played out in Nigeria. What about where you are in Kenya? It's actually kind of similar. I mean, I work with the Nigerian and Kenyan colleagues and they did have a conversation about it.

7:30And apparently it's more serious in Nigeria, but in Kenya, it's still a thing and it has not only to do with the generations or the positions, but also it has to do with the age difference. It's more acceptable if your boss is close to you in age to call them by the first name. Meanwhile, if they're a little bit older and you're still a very junior employee, you probably have to call them like Mr. or Miss or whatever they prefer. It's very much depend on what sort of company or corporation you're working for. And Basmab, you've lived in other places as well in Morocco. You've worked with people from across the Middle East. Is it similar? I mean, most companies in Morocco use French as a language of communication, language of emails. And French is very formal. How you address people, you cannot address them by their first name. It doesn't have to be your boss. It's just as a form of respect for your colleague, you cannot call them by their first name.

8:32You have to call them either like Moussieu or Madame. And you cannot use Chew, which is like a pronoun that you'd address your friends with. You have to use like Vou, very, very formal. But it has started to change it because too much formality is making these companies, especially companies that are trying to tap into a certain market. It's making them feel like more distant to the audience than they want to tap into. That formality was definitely not the vibe I got from watching Eminem Paris, by the way. That's why the French people are mad about that. And Basmab, you've been looking into this in other parts of the world too? Yes, to be honest, in the Arab world, you cannot call someone who's way older than you by their first name, just out of respect. I mean, we were raised in a culture that even like someone you don't know, you meet them in the street, you want to ask them about directions, or whatever, if they're older than you, you have to call them Uncle or Auntie or something around that. So I feel like when I worked with different colleagues,

9:35definitely the ones who are way older than me, I was more hesitant to call them by their names. Basmab, it's been great speaking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Now, before I go, we have done loads of episodes on jobs in the workplace, and we did a really interesting one on remote working, and whether it could be holding Gen Z back in your careers, and I want to read some of the comments that I have been getting from you guys on that. So this is from Arimba, who said, if you're trying to work from home, you probably value your life more than your career. People don't really care about careers anymore, as they don't care about us and AI will replace us anyway. So we may as well just enjoy it now while we can. And Sijidi said, working remotely is definitely not for everyone. Was remote for two years, but my mental health suffered. I prefer hybrid now. So please do let us know your thoughts. You can watch that episode on the BBC World Service YouTube channel, but for now, I'm Hannah. This is Was in the World from the BBC World Service. Available now on the documentary from the BBC World Service.

10:36Russian is the first language of millions of Ukrainians, but it's also the language of their enemy, and its public use is now heavily curtailed. Does that prevent the spread of Russian influence, or is it a denial of the very liberty Ukraine's fighting for, join me Tim Huell to hear from both sides in the language battle? Listen now by searching for the documentary, wherever you get to your BBC podcasts. Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire, and your dead to me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts, add free, with an Amazon Music subscription.