We should all appreciate vultures more!

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1:01It's perfect for snags, steaks, veggies, fish, and breakfast foods like pancakes and eggs and bacon. Pair it with the Made In Grill press and it can even make mouth-watering smash burgers just like you'll find in your favorite restaurants. So if you want to up your barbecuing game and who doesn't, do what the pros do. Barbecue with Made In. Go to MadeInCookware.com.au for 10% off your first order of $149 or more. That's M-A-D-E-I-NCookware.com.au Hey, I'm Etcra and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service. From memes to movies, you guys don't need me to tell you that the vulture gets a bit of a bad rep. The bird of prey is often linked to death and decay. Some people are trying to push back against that reputation. They're fighting to improve the PR of the vulture. They might not be very attractive to most people. I think they're beautiful. But I also would argue that they're also really, really important and very, very,

2:02really, they're essential to our environment. Okay, so let's find out a bit more. Kodjo, your self-confessed vulture fan. You're in Maryland and the US. Hey. How's it going? Thanks for having me. Yeah, good. Kodjo, I'm excited to learn about the vultures and why you're such a fan. First off, for those of us who can't picture a vulture, how would you describe it to them? A vulture is a big dark bird with no fathers on its head. So it's not necessarily the most attractive to most people. And they do a lot of soaring, a lot of flying over people's heads. They look a little ominous to most people. So, talk me through the first time you came across a vulture. So I always say I got interested in vultures because I was just interested in birds period. I've been interested in nature for a long time. And I got my first field guide when I was about six years old. And a vulture was probably the first bird that I didn't know about before getting the field guide that I saw in real life.

3:02And so I guess my first thought was probably that, whoa, that bird's really big. And I still think that pretty much every time I see one, they're really large birds, but I think that's super cool. Yeah, and I know that you've been focusing a lot of your thesis, your studies, and university on vultures, right? But it wasn't until I did my actual pieces work on them, is when I realized just how interesting birds they are, the really social, really, really caring towards their family members and other vultures they associate with. But they're also very, very aggressive towards their rivals. I mean, that's because they're all competing for the same food sources. But a lot of times people only see the squabbling and, you know, the eating dead stuff and all that. They don't realize how just how nurturing they can be and how sweet they can be as well. You've also taken to social media to really spread the word about them. Why did you decide to do that? What sort of reaction have you had to that as well? I had all these camera trap videos that I took because I would put cameras at vultures and at the roots sites to kind of get a sense of their behavior in a natural setting. And then after I finished my thesis, I had all this extra video footage.

4:05And so I was just like, let me post the video, baby vultures being cute and running around. Doing what they do in the nest. They're really active and it blew up more than anything I'd ever done before. And I was like, oh, okay, there's like a, I guess a market for this kind of thing. There are people out there like me, so nice to know I'm not alone. Yeah. Okay, well, it sounds like not much vulture hate on your algorithm, on your feed. Not too much, no. Khojo, there is a bit of vulture dislike misunderstanding out there. What sort of narratives do you come across or do you hear about that you think need to be fixed? You want to squash it right now. A lot of times you hear that they're dirty. Of course they're scavengers. And so they play a role in eating animals out of our death. They don't smell very good. I will give you that. And they might not be very attractive to most people. I think they're beautiful. But I also would argue that they're also really, really important and very, very, really, they're essential to our environment. You wouldn't want a bunch of dead carcasses hanging around your roads or your backyards or anything.

5:06And it's not every job is going to be the cleanliest job out there. And someone's got to do the dirty work to put it very cleanly. Okay, so I'm getting an idea there of how they're kind of like the cleaners of the animal kingdom. Exactly. They have really strong stomach acid. And so basically when they do eat these carcasses, they are able to destroy really doubly bacteria. They can digest anthrax, rabies, bachelors, some, all these really scary diseases that exist naturally. And in other cases, wood spread. So when they clear away this rotting meat really fast, they keep, you know, water sources clean, they keep soil clean, they keep humans and other animals from getting sick. And they also have really robust immune system. So they don't get sick either. So even when you hear voltage is a really dirty, they're actually technically not. They are actually kind of like that. In that way, that last, that last, land defense. So without them, you know, we would have a lot more disease in this world. You know, human, I guess human science has come a long way, but it still needs a lot of natural

6:12barriers in order to keep our cell safe. And Vultures are one of those that people don't really realize. There's some good takeaways from the Vulture there. But obviously the stigma around Vultures and I guess their appearance, the misconceptions around them also could affect their conservation, right? Absolutely. Like I said, they're extremely important birds. And even if the biases are not conscious, a lot of times it's the birds that sing pretty songs or have really pretty plumage that get the most attention from the public. And what gets attention from the public is what's going to get the attention from conservation. That makes sense. And by the same time, Vultures serve a very, very important role and are declining across the world. Most of them are doing very poorly across the world. And I think it's very clear that our biases are internal biases or external biases play a very important role in that. And you must have something called People Magazine. And they have a, I don't know if they still do it, but they used to have a feature column where it was like stars,

7:13they're just like us and feature celebrities doing normal things like going to the store or whatever. But I kind of try to be like Vultures, they're just like us. They have their enemies, they have their family members, they have their friends, who they fiercely protect and love. And everybody else can go, you know, shout it. So, yeah, I think that's kind of, it's relatable. Yeah, that's such a sweet message. I've never thought of Vultures in that way. Kodjo, I've been loving the passion that you have for Vultures. I can feel it off you, and it is a bit infectious. Thank you so much. Thank you. I always say it's an honor to kind of have the chance to yap about Vultures and Birds to anyone who will listen. So I appreciate you for giving me the chance to do that. Okay, so let's look at somewhere else in the world that has Vultures. Our friend and the BBC's West Africa reporter Makwachi Akafar has been on the line listening to Kodjo that whole time, and he's with us right now. He's in Lagos, Nigeria. Hey Makwachi. Hi. Happy to be here, guys. Yeah, love chatting to you. Okay, Makwachi, what's the story with

8:19Vultures in Nigeria? I don't think Kodjo would be excited to hear this because on like where he is, here, Vultures are disappearing. And there are lots of factors to why they're disappearing. Not just in Nigeria, but actually across West Africa and even some parts of South Africa. Now, he's right. Vultures aren't viewed in the most pleasant way around here. They're seen as bad luck. They're seen as bad people kind of associated them with debt and decay and all that. And that has caused a huge attack on Vultures populations. They're poisoned, they're haunted, but there's an interesting twist around here. People aren't haunting them just to eat them, but now they're being haunted for what experts call belief-based use. Now, this is people who still engage in some tradition where the Vultures are believed to have some level of superpowers that they used in. Some rituals on some religious practices, some traditional worship.

9:23I mean, speaking of conservationists, and some of them said that five years ago, one adult Vulture could cost maybe as low as 30,000 Nair, but now it goes as high as 150,000 to 200,000 Nair. And that's quite a huge jump in the space of just five years. I haven't seen any Vultures here in Lagos and I've been here for almost 10 years. So, that's not bad, it's just. Normally, you go to Abbotwaz and the midshops and you see Vultures. When I was younger, those are just very popular scenes. But now, you don't see them anymore. Yeah, and you've been reporting, you've been talking about some traditional practices around Vultures, right? So, these practices are different in different places, but they are kind of similar. So, people sometimes hunt Vulture because they believe you can use their parts, their feathers, their heads, for good luck charm. You can use it for a level of spiritual protection. Some people use them for prayers to some date, and experts are sounding alarm because if we don't have Vultures, then there is potential that more diseases could spread.

10:28I saw that you spoke to a local resident called the Vulture King. Yeah, I did. And he has an interesting story. Now, for most people, he has a Christian background, the community is more Christian, even though if you check the Christian text, that's the Bible. It kind of also kind of ties Vultures to death. He doesn't care, because he says, his found that the Vultures are very important. In his community, unlike other communities, Vultures are protected. They are welcomed. They are seen as good luck, actually. So, people do offer dead cacases or more like animal sacrifices to the Vulture. So, the population there is growing. Unfortunately, for the community, outside of that, they are hunting them. And this bothered him a lot. So, he decided to join forces with conservationists who had just started working the community. He's just totally helped to see that the population have grown. But what about the government? What have they said?

11:29Actually, for the past 10 years, experts have been sounding alarm, and I will give a bit of context. Right now, seven African Vultures are threatened. Some are in danger, some are critically in danger, and one is now labeled as vulnerable. So, governments now are coming together. They first came together in 2022 to have this plan where they call West Africa plan to conserve Vultures. But years have passed and it seems like not so much has been done. So, right now, sometimes at the end of the quarter of this year, experts, government, scientists, academia, they are all going to come together. And now, they're even trying to see more stronger enforcement in borders, in communities. And even to raise awareness, and they have to increase their efforts in tackling and enforcing hunters who hunt them. And also seeing that they do not cross-border us because there is now a trend of cross-border trade of Vulture and Vulture parts. Before we go, we did a shout out on the BBC World Service social as asking which animal

12:31doesn't deserve its bad reputation. And before I get to some of your comments, because we had a big response on that, Makwachi, I want to know what you think. I know not everybody's going to like these snakes. A snake is going to be a bit of some good PR. I'm not sure I like that one. But I think they also play some huge, quite important role in our ecosystem, and they deserve some good PR. Snakes, Makwachi, I'm sorry. But thank you for being with us. Thank you. Bye. As promised, let's get to some of your comments on that. A few of you mentioned Vulture is actually and some other ones, Rumi says, Sharks, Badgers, Foxes, Laura says Possums. They're an amazing asset to the world. People don't realise it. Haley says rats. I'm not sure I agree with that one. And Pigeons also came up. Here's Holly who works in wildlife conservation. The reason I love Pigeons so much is just I just think there's so much more to them than people realise. We actually domesticated Pigeons thousands of years ago and used them to carry messages.

13:35They even carried a life saving messages in both World War One and World War Two. And as a result, there's been 32 Pigeons that ever sleep the Dickin Reddle, Rich Dormy Braveery, which I think is just really cool. They're just animals trying to live in a world and an environment that we've kind of brought them into. And I'm going to throw that question open to you guys now, which animal doesn't deserve its bad reputation. You can comment below, like and subscribe. For now, I'm it Kruff and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service. I'll see you guys soon. Amazon Music Subscription.