We Don't Have Time For This

0:00We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land that this podcast is recorded on. We have a thousand things to do, but we'd rather chat to you. With females and meetings and husbands and kids, we don't have time for this. Just what you need to basic bitches with a podcast. Oh hey there girlfriend! If you're listening to this, chances are you were sent this episode by someone close to you. Someone who loves you very, very much and wants you to join our club. And that's kind of what this podcast is. So if you are new here, I am Gemma, aka Gemma Pena on the Gram, and my co-host is Reves. I'm Kate Reeves, but Gem has called me Reves ever since we were 11. That's right, we've been best friends since we were 11 years old. We started this podcast during COVID when none of us could get to our mother's group. We desperately wanted our besties around us. And over the last few years, this community has grown into exactly that.

1:00Just a bunch of besties trying to get through life together. Our podcast has been called The Mother's Group in your ears. It's also a podcast for people who love their kids but hate parenting. So if that sounds like you, you're in the right place. Now to get you caught up and give you a little taste of what this podcast is, we've made a very special episode to introduce you to the world of We Don't Have Time for This. But first, we need to bring you up to speed with some pod vernacular so you don't get lost along the way. Yeah, we don't want to drop you in the middle of Paris but you can't speak French, okay? 100GP. What's up there? 100GP. 100GP is what I say for 100% 100% And what do we call our listeners, Reves? DLs, which stands for Dear Listener. It's very nostalgic. It's known how the columnist used to say Dear Reader, or in the world of Bridgerton, Lady Whistle Down would say Dear Gentle Reader. We talk about mums in two different ways. Good mums and wallet mums. Now look, our podcast started five years ago. We know no one carries a wallet now. There are two types of mums. The good mums who always have little sandwiches, spare leggings.

2:04They've always got wipes and nappies for fun. It's that mum that you call for all the parenting advice. Yes, it's say, is it okay to give Neurif and Anne Panadol at the same time? She's the one who hands you a little thing of blueberries at the park when your kid is starving because you forgot to feed them breakfast. And then of course, there's the wallet mums. Now Gem and I both identify as wallet mums. We sure do. Wallet mums are exactly what the name suggests. You leave the house with nothing but your wallet and your kids. I forgot those rest for a second. You're right. If you're lucky or in 2026, you're leaving with your phone and not much else. Skin flat wine is when you pour a wine into a coffee cup so you can take it to the park or school assembly in Cognito. And no one knows what you're up to, although, you know, if you know, you know. We are known to refer to ourselves as gutter goblins. We are the millennial mums. You come out of the trenches of parenthood and you don't have time to look good, feel good or try. And thus, you are a gutter goblins. Yeah, gutter goblins is a state and we're trying to reclaim the gutter goblins. Okay? Sometimes you just wake up and you cannot.

3:04You cannot do your hair, you cannot do your face, you cannot put an outfit together. And today you're going to gutter goblins and that's okay. I think that'll do Gem, right? I think that's enough to get you started. How'd you pee? Shall we get straight into it? Yeah, so this first snippet is from our third ever episode. Stop it. We're taking them back there. Thank you so far. Five years, it's an iconic story. All the deals know this one. It happened to Gem and no one is better to tell it than Gem herself five years ago from EP3. Back in Sydney, the weather had turned to shit. And I was running out of ways to occupy Raffa. And one of my mother's group friends said, I'm taking Ingrid to Whizzy World. And I was like, Whizzy World. How fabulous. Sounds like a hoot. Let's do it. Let's take the kids. To be clear, what Whizzy World is, it's like one of those indoor play centres but on crack. It's got this epic structure, climbing frames and slippery dips, but it's four stories high, like soft play. Soft play. So it's all padded and there's mesh and there's little obstacle courses.

4:05And you can climb all the way up to the top and then you can slide on down. Sounds like Raffa's dream. Exactly. So my friend Ellie and I were sitting there. And at this point, another friend of ours, Karen, had also joined. So the three of us were sitting there having a chat, letting the kids run wild, soft play. So we don't need to worry about much. I did have Iggy with me. He was in a baby soft player area, which was tailored to kids under one years old. So I was like, perfect. He's entertained, Raffa's entertained. I'm here. Happy days chatting with the girls. Ellie suddenly goes, um, Gem, uh, oh, you might not want to, uh, yep, that's Raffa. I turned around and there was a slippery dip. Four stories high. Raffa standing right at the top. She had removed her leggings and her undies. No idea where they were. Just in the random ball pit somewhere. Yeah, exactly. And she was standing at the top of the slide and just straight up pissing down the slide. We talk about owning it.

5:06She owned that moment. She was like, I'm the king of the world. I have never been in a horrified and mortified in my life. And there's no explaining out of that. So you just have to be like, it's like if you just farted in the middle of the office, like, well, that, that's happening. That's happening. Oh, instead of just standing there and looking at all the other parents and just being like, yeah, that happened. I panicked. Yeah. I ran to the bottom of the slide and I was like, Raffa, Raffa, Raffa. And there was no point telling it as stopping because you can't stop a kid mid-floor. There's no point. I've accepted that the flow is in full flight. And I don't know why, but all I could think was, where are your leggings? Which is the most impractical thought. You were in shock. I was in shock. You were in shock. Funnily enough, she's so good at taking instructions. She actually walked off to the side behind some padding and went here, mummy, and held up her leggings. She's still at the top of the slide, by the way. So I'm like yelling up four stories.

6:06And I said, give me the leggings. Give me the leggings right now. And she threw the leggings down the slide. And I quickly scrunched up the leggings into a ball. Now, another thing that I didn't mention is I am wearing a dress. It's summer. It's hot. Oh my god. I'm wearing this pink stripy dress. And then just picture me full ninja style climbing up this slide and as I'm going up towards her, window wiping the wee with her leggings because the only thing I could think that would absorb it quick enough were her clothes rather than getting a wipe. Because what the hell does a wipe do in that situation? So I'm like, like crawling up, like a crab in your dress, like backwards up the slide. Absolutely. Everyone could see my ass. I mean, that was a given. Everyone in that center was like, thank fuck that isn't me. Thank fuck that isn't my child. And I wonder if someone was like, hey, isn't that? We've got to don't even entertain that idea. Isn't that? Jim at peanut from Instagram?

7:07Oh, like I would have died. I would have died. The story doesn't end there, guys. Oh no. I wish it did. Oh no. Oh, I'm in pain for you. I know. I will never go back to Wizzy World. No, you can never go back there. And I forgot to mention, as always, when you've got two kids and trying to get out the door, I forgot to pack spare clothes. Yes, this is a classic U-move. Correct. So thankfully, my friend Ellie said, our Ingrid's got, she's the same age as Raffa, so she was also in the midst of toilet training. There is one of these mums in every mother's group who always has spare wipes, spare clothes, extra blueberries, extra little cut-up sandwiches for the mums like us, who just come with a wallet. Spot on. And Ellie saved me that day. So Raffa puts on Ingrid's undies and cute little leopard print leggings and I was like, thank god, thank god for you. And off she went and I was like, oh, and I was sitting there with Karen and Ellie just debriefing and being like, did that actually happen? Oh my god. And they were literally like, deep breaths, jam, deep breaths, you're doing really well. Oh. Thank god for the motherhood, sisterhood.

8:07Totally. What would we do without them? Next minute. Oh no. Karen goes, is Raffa waddling? Oh no. And I turn around and she's waddling back towards me from the distance. She's probably about 10 meters away. She's like, jumped off some merry-go-round thing and she's walking like a cowboy with that word stride and I was straight, I knew instantly. I was like, there's a poo in her pants. She only walks like that when she has a poo in her pants. Just like thunder fullers lightning. Yep. Oh no. And sure enough, she had done a whopping big gnarly squishy poo in Ingrid's pants. In Ingrid's pants. In Ingrid's pants. And I was like, once again, mortified is the theme of this story. And Ellie, she was so good. She was like, oh, it's okay, Gem. Like, don't worry about it. It's like, I am so sorry. I will get these undies washed and I will return them to you. Like, fully sterilized. And as I took Raffer into the bathroom, her friend Ingrid was like, I got toilet too. Because you know what kids are like. They like monkey-seeing monkey-do. So I was like, oh, come Ingrid and Ellie's like,

9:07oh, I'll help wrangle Ingrid. Because, you know, the last thing you need is another title I try to get in on this where you're trying to clean shit off your child. But as I pulled Raffer's undies down, Even Ellie went, I don't need those back. Oh. You can just put those in the bin. I don't want us no salvaging those undies. Our next little chat is about something that we hear from the community is huge in your lives. And that is the uniquely exquisite pain of a female friendship breakup. But also the power and specialness of female friendship and how lucky we are to have it in all its forms. Have a listen. I've had friendship breakups before. But yeah, I've never really had this kind of like, oh, this person was so special. Like, I would call it intimate. Yeah. And then they're just like inexplicably pulling away to the point where I'm like, I've obviously done something. Yeah, it's understandable that you're questioning that. Because you've obviously already extended empathy. Like, oh, they must have a lot of shit going on in their life.

10:10I'm just going to give them space. But when the space becomes a cup of, yeah, between you and then the distance of time, I guess unlike when you're in your 20s or whatever, you know, when you're in 20s, you're so immature, emotionally in a lot of ways. You like get defensive and you're like, well, fuck them, you know, I'm a better and better, you know. I just feel like I'm in a different emotional stage of life where I'm just trying to be healthy about it and be like, look at myself. What's my responsibility in this? Have I played some big part? Like, have I hurt them? It just feels really, really complicated. And it's her form, man. Yeah. It sucks. I'm sorry. So do you think there's nothing to do? I don't think there's anything to do. Yeah. Because actions speak louder than words. She obviously didn't feel comfortable. To tell you explicitly in text or however you were communicating about how she's feeling. Like, I'm not going to gas like you and say, no, she's probably just like, no, like you know. There's obviously been enough time that's passed and you used to have, like you said, intimate friendship

11:11and spoke regularly to now not speaking and it's been months. That can't be ignored. That is something, whether or not it's anything to do with you or it's fully her own shit. Yeah. We don't know. Yeah. So you can't seek that answer because she's not going to give it to you because you've given her the opportunity to tell you. So I think it with these things just really throw up like self-examination in a way where I go, oh my god, am I not safe enough for her? Like, am I not the friend I want to be that I'm like someone you can come to that you can be honest with? You know, you pride yourself on particular qualities. And I think, yeah, like it really makes you question, like if you're the person you want to be, way more than romantic relationships. Because I think in romantic ones, everything's dialed up to 10. Sometimes there's just a wrong fit or things aren't compatible. But female friendship, it's so much more nuance. It's almost more intimate in some ways, but also more delicate in other ways because you can't just have a screaming match and work this stuff out. No, no. And yeah, you are kind of left thinking like,

12:12maybe I'm not the friend I thought I was or maybe I'm not the woman I want to be if this person doesn't feel safe to either honestly end things or come to me with whatever issue there is, you know? I don't know. It's just really sad. Yeah. This is the thing in our late 30s and early 40s. Everyone's going through so many challenges, whether it's managing your kids, your own relationships, juggling a job, maintaining a household, trying to manage all the comms, your relationships with your parents, your in-laws, to recipe for disaster, really? Yeah. The way I view female friendship especially, it's almost like a safe haven. Female friendship is so magical, wonderful, enriching all those things, but is also painful and complicated. So complicated because we don't have the tools to navigate all the nuances, like they are more available in romantic relationships. And you know what we don't want is where people become so,

13:14oh, you do you, I'll do me, and people kind of retreat to their immediate family as being the source of all comfort because it cannot be. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like where it's like, okay, well, I'll just rely on the people I can rely on and that's my kids. Yeah. Because they love me unconditionally. Like you still need to water and nurture those friendships and make effort and put into them what you want to get out of them. Like all of that, like you can't. Yeah. And sometimes I think we've over-therapising where we give people so much grace and do so much self-analysing and work that there is that risk where we lose community and we can't lean on our village because everyone's being almost too delicate and understanding that people have their own lives and their own shit that then suddenly no one has a deep connected relationship with their friends. But it's a delicate dance. How hard do you push? How much do you give when you're not sort of receiving it in return

14:15that you kind of start to give up on that or feel like it's not reciprocated and then you feel a little bit like, wow, I'm putting a lot of energy in this and it's not going both ways. And then it starts to hurt you. It is complicated. Yeah, I think maybe like intimate relationships it's one step at a time thing instead of trying to zoom out and like handle the whole thing in one. You can't go. You almost need to go, well, right now I feel this. This feels really hard. I feel unsure. I don't know what to do next, but I guess I'll give it a moment, give it let it play out. I don't know. What are you doing this state of life when you lose a mate like that? You process it and grieve it. Yeah, let it go. And maybe it'll come back to you. Don't want to. Next we have a snippet from an episode called Shea at Home Mum. I'm pretty sure the title says it all. Have a listen. Do you know what I don't have time for? What don't you have time for? Really don't have time for women having to justify their job as full-time stay at home mums. Oh, okay.

15:15Yep. Talk it up. It's a big topic, but look, I got triggered by something that I overheard in a hair salon. Actually. Anyway, I was sitting in the chair. I had my laptop out. I was doing a bit of work. And you know, when you just eavesdrop on the conversations around you because I looked very focused on my work. So no one was talking to me. No one was none the wiser. None the wiser, but my ears were prick to arc. And there was a woman in the chair next to me. She was beautiful red-headed lady. Looked about my age. And the hairdresser who was working on her color looked young. So like someone who doesn't have kids. So she's just casually asking questions, you know, how's your day? Remember me? Oh, you've got kids. Bob, blah, blah. And then the hairdresser said to her, so what do you do for work? Very flippantly. I just watched this mummer's entire demeanor change. Her voice dropped. She started to stammer. And essentially, she sort of said, oh, I'm not working at the moment. And then the hairdresser goes, oh, so what are you doing with yourself?

16:16Like, you know, just hang this woman out to dry. And then she said, oh, very cleverly. She said, oh, well, I'm a full-time mum. That's a job enough, right? But she didn't say it with real confidence or ownership. And she was kind of floundering. Yeah, she's embarrassed. Yes. She was. There was a tone of like, oh, I'm going to stay her mum. That's a full-time job enough, isn't it? And then she was like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course. And she goes, oh, and also I'm trying to get my health back in check. And then just started to continue to justify why she wasn't working. And in that moment, I wanted to get up so badly and say, hell, yeah, that's a job enough. But she had the blow dryer on her hair. And I knew she wouldn't hear me. When you're chatting to someone and someone's drying your hair and you're basically yelling, it was a bit of that case scenario. And didn't they just work out last week? I think I read somewhere, 184K a year would be the salary

17:17for the job description of stay at home mum. Wow. 184. Consideration of hours. Hours, like physical labor, mental requirement, skill set. Yeah. You know, everything, because you basically have to be a nurse. Yes, I can't heterose a teacher. A chef. An attorney. So true. Like, conflict resolution experts. Seriously. There's a lot of things you have to be to be a mum. If you wrote out the job description, it's outrageous. 184K. Frankly, seems pretty cheap. You don't get paid to start with. You're not getting super. You're not getting any benefits. You're literally getting the privilege of working that hard a job. Wiping asses and feeding faces. And then what you have to turn up and justify it? Yeah. Yeah, that's rough. It's interesting like this question of what do you do? I've heard people talk about how that's now a question that's off the table. But it's hard, right? When you're trying to relate to someone, what do you chat about the weather the day? How old your kids are? Like, I hate that chat sometimes where or you can relate to each other on.

18:19It's like, oh, how old's your kid? Yeah, I've got a this year old. What's their name? It's great name. It is a bit mind-nummy that sometimes you do want to talk about other things. And sometimes to get through to those other interesting conversations, you do need to have that initial chat about what do you do. Unless it was in a scenario where you were at a work event or a networking thing or someone said, oh, I was at work the other day and blah, blah, blah. I would jump on that. But I would never out of the blue assume someone's in work outside the home, paid work, whatever. Oh, also, in the climate we're in now is employed. Yeah. It's also sometimes usually the least interesting thing about people. But when I was 20, something, I wasn't aware you couldn't say, oh my god, are you pregnant? I wasn't aware you couldn't say, what do you do for work? These wisdoms come with life experience. Yes. With having friends go through it who are offended or you personally going through it. I mean, I think it's tricky being young and being in that kind of service-based job where you have to make small talk with people.

19:19She's going to learn pretty fast because someone will school her one day and be like, well, I work full-time in the home, you know? But I work longer hours than most. Like, yeah, 24 or 7. Yeah. It was probably really confronting for the mom because she'd like taken a moment for herself. You go and get her hair done. She probably already felt guilty about it, you know? She probably already squeezed it into a very full-on schedule. And then she probably felt, yeah, the need to justify why she was doing that and that makes me sad. I read this really nice quote on the internet. It served up to me, but it said, taking care of yourself as a mom is not saying me first. It's saying me too. Yeah. I thought that was quite nice because I know women generally speaking, whether you're a full-time, working parent or a full-time stay-at-home parent, we all struggle to put ourselves first. What we're all very good at is putting ourselves at the very bottom of the to-do list or neglecting ourselves. And sometimes putting yourself first or being self-focused feels uncomfortable for a lot of women.

20:20But I just like this notion of, like, no, it's not saying me first. It's saying me too. I mean, the idea that a mom would put anything for themselves first. It's just ludicrous. It doesn't happen. It's insane. Sorry. I've never known anyone. Even the moms who aren't like capital M moms, we are self-ascribed, not capital M moms. My kids are always first. Always. Everything else is in around them. And like, yes, we want to work. We're working. We have our side hustle. We have self-care. We have friendships. We have relationships. We have all these things. But if you really boil it down to our day-to-day, mental load, prioritization, schedule, everything starts with where do the kids need to be, what are the kids doing, what do the kids need? Everything starts there. Everything. All right. I'm going to be real with you guys. This next one is not something I wanted to revisit or reopen or re-air, but revs is forcing me. Yeah. Because if you're new here, you have to know this about Gem. She is all about authenticity, about receipts,

21:22and about justice. And she found herself in quite a pickle over what we now call red hat gate. Enjoy at your expense. LAUGHTER You know what I don't have time for? What do you have time for? Thinking I'm a recovered people-pleaser and then realizing, nope, I am in fact still a people-pleaser. Oh, God. So I had an exchange with a friend of mine. She's an old mate. She's a photographer friend, love her dearly. One day, she texted me, I think I need to add some context here. Please, lay down the context. So I jumped on my Instagram stories as I do doing a chat to camera. Most days. Nothing new there. We all know I'm in my cap era. Yep. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I think I have 12 caps on rotation at the moment of all different shades and colours. So I jumped on my stories and I was wearing one of my red caps. One of my red caps. One of high notes. We've got a problem. I sure do. And the next day, after publishing on my stories, I receive a text from this mate of mine and it says,

22:23Hello, Gem. Random question. But did I buy any chance for get a red kill cap at your place? Instantly, my brain goes into overdrive. Oh my God, she's seen my stories. I go and check my stories. Shit, I was wearing my red kill cap. Was it her red kill cap? No, it was mine. It was definitely mine, but I knew that this was the seed. Oh, wow. How did you know that was the seed? Because she said red kill cap. I didn't say, hey, I just saw you wearing a red kill cap on your story. She didn't say that. Is that my cap? Yeah, but come on, revs the coincidence of the timing. OK, Crepe. OK, OK. Also, just a reminder, she hasn't been to my place in a few weeks. OK. I wrote back saying, no, I'm afraid not. But I have my own red kill cap that hubs bought me and then proceeded to take a photo of it. Because I was like, let's take a photo of it. Yeah, I took a photo of it and sent it to it. Because I, anyway, just let me finish. I'm breaking it in hives, even reliving this text message.

23:25And then I said, this is my one. Does yours look similar? OK. There aren't a lot of red kill caps. OK. OK. There's not. I'm getting defensive. Yep. Crepe's just going at me only. No reply. Now I've really spiraled. So talk us through what's going on in your head. What's happening in your head right now? I couldn't bear the thought of her jumping on Instagram and being like, hey, there's Jim wearing that red kill cap of mine that I've been looking for the last few weeks. Hey, I was at her house a few weeks ago. Is that my fucking hat? And she's not returned. OK. I'm going to just bite my tongue and hear the end of the story. I'm just going to text her and say, hey, have you seen my red kill? Like, you can see where I came to this conclusion that she's like, hang on a second mate. So skeptical. But OK, yeah. What is it? Mm-hmm. OK. I can't understand where you're coming from. No reply. How long was this no reply? Because maybe she was just about to reply. No, like hours. OK. No reply. So then I've gone.

24:26OK, there's so many things to say. There's two schools of thought here. She's either gone. Oh, that's not mine. That's hers? Yep. Oh, well, keep looking. Yeah. Or bitch stole my hat. Or she's doing pickup or unloading the dishwasher and her phone's charging the other room and she'll write back later. OK, but she didn't write back so I needed to fill the silence. Oh, no. What have you done? What did you do? What did you do? I can't read anymore. I'm too embarrassed. What did you do? No. No. You did not send this. I did. Oh, you did. Oh, my god. OK, deals. This is the... It doesn't look like it was hours later. It was. Well, there's no new line where it said the beginning. It says Friday, the date and the time. There's not a new line that says it's even a new day. OK, it wasn't a new day. It was a couple of hours later. Maybe it was 40 minutes. Maybe it was 20 minutes. Oh, my no. It was like it was straight away. It's not even a break in the test cycle. No, it wasn't. I promise you.

25:26You know when you're parlaying, it's like they text you text. They text you text. I text silence. Then I start to fill the silence with some plots. Oh, my god. Let me do a dramatic reading of Jim. I'll be Jim. I'm living in paranoia that you might think I've stolen your hat. So I asked Hubs to send me the receipt to send you. Lafamogie. He said he doesn't have the receipt, but sent me back the bank transaction. He bought two new keel caps that day, one for him, and the red one for me. And that's what the balance is. Guys, then she sent a screenshot of the bank account. With this transaction with dated from keel surfing supply for $71.91. She of course then had to explain why it was $71.91. It was because two caps were bought that day. Oh, my god. Can I read her? Oh, I'm so embarrassed for you. And also, I want to give you a valium. What the fuck, mate?

26:28This is what she wrote back. Oh, my god, no. Don't be paranoid. That's light. I'm just tracing my movements and trying to think of all the random spots I've been to lately. Oh, my god, you keep going. Oh, my god. It got then jipped. So what did you think when you got that response? I've done much of your diligence all this well. What's going on in your head? I just all I could think was, she thinks I've stolen it, but had you sign me to prove it. It's like I'm in court. Here's my evidence. Here are the risks. I can't bear the thought of someone even having a slight thought of like gem wouldn't steal it, but maybe, maybe she did. OK, we'll come back to this. Yeah. It goes on. Gem says, I was like, oh my god, if I wear that hat, my socials, you're going to think it's yours. So many laughing emojis. And she says, you made me laugh. Thank you. My mom says I need to put my name and phone number in my hat's ha ha.

27:30Oh my god, so many fucking apologetic ha ha's in here. I'm sorry, I just ran the gyms reply. She's written, I put Rapace name on everything, and she still loses it. It kills me. I'm trying so hard to be chill and change the subject. Then she's left you on red. She's like this bitch, you need to. She's like, I'm going to be out of this. This is so intense. Gem, if I had left my hat at your house and then you were wearing it on your stories, I'd be like, oh, that might be mine. I wouldn't be like bitch stole my hat right out from underneath me. And then lied about it and made an elaborate story about how her husband, oh, she's got the evidence. Oh, it's true. OK, wow. You just went 10 steps ahead of me. Yeah. Right? Like, I had the proof.

28:30You knew it was true. You knew that was your hat. And I knew that. But I knew that. So why are you so upset by her thinking anything or else because you knew the truth? I think I'm triggered. Because OK, I've now worked out why I'm like this over this cat. God. So last year, another friend called me up and was like, hey, you know that Zulu and Zepha hat that we both have? Fucking hats. I think I left my hat. She said I think I left mine at your house. What girl pushed what a bullshit I've ever heard. And then I thought, oh, no, I've got mine. I don't have hers. And then I was like, should I just give her mine? What? Why would you give her yours? Because I didn't want her to be like, have you kept it? I don't know why I assume. OK, have you ever been in a situation where someone's just kept your shit and just pretended it was theirs? No. So where has this come from?

29:31I don't know, Revs. This is why I'm talking about it on the podcast. What is wrong with me? Well, OK, wow. I'll just scorn it over the bank accounts. Now, if you're still here, this is something that comes up often and something that me and Jim, honestly, we don't know how we feel about this topic. We go back and forth all the time. It's muddy, it's complicated, it's imperfect. Just like all of our fabulous selves learning to love our imperfect selves, enjoy this one, DLs. Oh, I'm calling you DLs. Are you a DL? If you've made it this far into the episode, perhaps you are officially a DL. Enjoy this chat on beauty standards and our very complicated feelings around trying to look good. And if I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, my eyes feel restored to what they once were and not so hooded and hip. But then when I say that, I don't want people who have hooded eyes to be like, you got a problem with hooded eyes? Your eyes are not a comment on anyone else's eyes, Jim. And this is what none of us can quite get. The internet especially doesn't end.

30:33The internet is just emboldened humanity. It doesn't come out of nowhere. It's not the internet. It's humans, you know? But like in the core of it? I'm hiding behind one layer of, you know, and pretend an emity, but no, people do think. And this is so really motherhood, you know? Like if you choose to have a home birth, somehow that's some comment on how I birthed. It isn't. It's not. It isn't their choice. And you know, we always try and say, let's not pretend we don't judge. We do. We all judge. It is in our human nature to judge and compare. And check. Yeah. And I think that part is healthy and, you know, in a normal. Normal. Yeah. Like it is healthy. Yeah, we're not going to gaslight ourselves and be like, what? I've never judged or brought something back to myself or felt like someone's choice was a commoner. We all do it. We don't because it's in a society, in a pack, in a caveman situation. You want to go, what's that society doing over in the next town? Oh, they've got that working better.

31:33Their water system's better. We should do a water system or whatever. Or like, oh, what's happening in their marriage? Do I need to avoid that to keep my marriage safe and healthy? You know, we do compare, but where it goes too far, I think is when we take on other people's choices about their bodily autonomy, which, by the way, is on the UN list of human rights, that everyone should have complete bodily autonomy and control over their own body. We take that as like some kind of political statement about normal. I know. It's nonsense. It's actual nonsense. I can compare this to my hair extensions. OK. And it's talking out. Well, like, I recently got my hair extensions out and I made a reel about it. And I was just talking about how, because we're not dying my natural hair and I haven't been touching it and when I have extensions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I made this thing about how my natural hair is kind of healed quite a lot while having extensions, because that's surprising. And people would assume that hair extensions have made me stammering your hair. But actually, and I was with you in the room when Sally

32:35from Halo was talking to you about this, but she explained that actually when you have extensions, you touch your hair less, you tie it up less, you wear it out and you just leave it be and there's so much truth to that. Yeah. I reckon also, because you're not stressing about your hair falling out. Maybe it's given a chance to sort of restore a bit too. Interesting. Anyway, whatever. The reason I do that is because people DM me and ask me about my hair extensions all the time, because I've obviously been quite open about them because this is not my natural hair. And you're not for a second going to pretend that you're a vitamin or how sleeper went for a walk and then you're like, oh my hair's throwing more water. Three times in density grown, you know, like no. So I've been really open about it. And people ask me about it all the time because they're considering it and they want first-hand experience. And I said in the post, I'm having some time off my hair extensions, I'm gonna get them put back in, but anyway, isn't this an interesting plot twist, you know? What I didn't expect was all the DMs, comments and messages about, well, there you go. You feel, Jay, you don't need extensions anymore.

33:36And I was like, oh no, I love having hair extensions. I love the look, I love how they make me feel. And I've said multiple times, this is me now. Like I just, this is the hair I've always wanted and it makes me feel fantastic. But people want you to be a whole head. People want me to not need them, right? And I don't need them. There's something wrong with my natural hair that I'm not making a comment on anyone else's hair. And their choices, their choices, or to have. To have or not have, I'm not making comment on thin or fine-haired girls. I'm not making a comment on thick-haired girls. I'm not saying anything is better or worse, I'm saying I like my hair like this, right? Now, it's a sample of some DMs. I got, stay strong, keep your natural hair. Oh, as a makeup artist, I think you look better with your natural hair and it being darker. This color's way better on you. It looks so much nicer natural. Like all these like opinion, and now I wasn't seeking. I wasn't doing a putting it out there.

34:37What do you reckon? Should I get them again? I wasn't not even pretending to ask for anyone's opinion. Yeah, right. But the opinions unsolicited all came at me as in like, there you go, you don't have to do it anymore. You can relax with the vibes. And there it is. And people's feelings. And I'm like, yeah, it's projection, isn't it? I've had feelings about another person's hair, like ever. Yeah, you might have looked at someone's hair and gone, man, she is so lucky. Yeah. Because that's what you use. Oh, I'm not going to lie. Oh, I've looked at someone's hair and gone, well, that looks terrible. She looked way better before. I'd, oh no, God, I like you. But I would never go to them and put those opinions in fit. Because I know that's whatever I'll move on with my day. And it's none of anyone's business, including my own, my opinion on anyone else's aesthetic choices for themselves. But I also, what I'm so fascinated in now, I've really changed my opinion on all this stuff because I too have gone, no, no, no, I should just learn to love and leave. I'm just playing into capitalism and body image.

35:39I have this exact, you know, complex. I'm giving in. Yeah. I'm a sell out. I'm a seller. I'm laying down my placard and just going, fine, I'll conform. And I don't want that for all we might want it for my daughter. I don't want, you know. But the truth is, you're failing. Well, the truth is, why do I have to fight the fight? If I just want to look a certain way. Totally. And why are some things politicized and some things we're used to now say that you be quitters, like dying your hair? No one's going to be like, oh, Gemma, you're a sell out, you cover your grays. You know, but that's an augmentation. It is. What's the difference? And it costs money. It's feeding into capitalism. It'd be cheaper if I just accepted my grays. It takes time. Yeah, it would be very liberated and cool of you to just rock your grays. Isn't it funny how there are tears of what's accepted and what isn't accepted? And this is why I find it really refreshing when people just fucking own their shit. I guess the other layers of this is privilege. Like these things cost money and they take time. Yeah. Some people don't have a couple of grand and a week off.

36:42You know, they don't have it. And they might desperately want a nose job or a boob job or bluff or hair extension. Like hair extension is a super expensive. And maybe the way they self-sooth is to go, well, I'd love that. But, you know, it must be nice. When we're uncomfortable, and when we feel like jealous or envious or just, like we just feel uncomfortable, the brain searches for permission to feel that way. And it searches for something to hook onto and go, no, no, I'm not jealous or I'm not envious or I'm not, they're raw. I've got a reason for my feelings, you know? And that's very real. Like, you know? But I don't mean I only want to sit at a table with women who would also make the same choices as me. No! I still want to sit at a table with women who were like, oh, I could never do surgery. It's not for me. I'm too scared. I hate needles or I'm, I know it's not one of my top priorities. But there's the honesty. But they don't, they're honest about their experience of why they don't want to do something. But they can still engage with your life. But also, I want to be friends with people or give permission to the people in my life

37:44to change their minds. Yeah. Like, can we not evolve? Can we not evolve? Seriously. These beauty standards are sinister. And I go through real waves with them. Same. I have seasons where I'm like, you know what, fuck this. So much. Your feminist moments. Oh my God, I spend so much time and money thinking about and engaging with this stuff when I could be doing other things. And you want to rage at the Patreon. Yeah, I get those moments all the time. And I'm like, these are all just fucking weapons of female conformity to keep us busy and aligned and tired so that we do free labor and keep society up. You know, like, I do. I have those moments where I'm like, fuck it. And you know what I do with those moments, Gem? I don't do the beauty things. I let them go for a while until I go, oh, you know what? I'd like to get my eyebrows done because I'm feeling like I just want to have that handled. Or, you know what, I'm going to get my hair done because I'm ready to feel whatever. I just wait for the next seasonal wind to take over me. And I don't judge myself, you know?

38:45Totally. Like, you don't have to have a backstory for why you want a superficial augmentation. Totally. I just feel like it's so funny about who deserves to want to augment and why it's okay for you because you've got a family history of awe. It's okay for her because she's always had insecurity about this, what if one day you want to be a blonde? There's no more weight in either choice. I don't think. This is how I feel about it. There's ain't no temple, you know? I'm aging. This wonderful silly saggy meat sack has been with me. Since birth, I honor it in where it's carried me to whatever I put I'll do. The fuck I want with it, thank you. I've got a tattoo at 39. I can make my arm sticker books now if I want. I am so grateful that it works, but it's gonna change and sag and morph and have growths and weird hair. I've got my gray pub now. Like, I'm not pretending for a second.

39:45This is my 20 year old temple that I should work. Like, I'll do what I want with it. Yeah. Yeah, and you want to max and maximize her to its potential. However, you damn like. But what is even potential? It's just what you want right now. Well, your own potential of how you see that it could be. That's how I feel. Well, you made it this far. Sounds like you're in our club. Welcome to the cult, as we like to say. We would love it if you would subscribe so that you get episodes in your feed every week. And you can come follow us on Instagram. We're always having fun over there. Now, just to fill you in on the schedule for those of you who enjoy this, we- Guys, we'd like to plan their week. There are some type A, D-Ls within our community roaming and we need to cater to them. So our regular episode, we call it our main app, drops every Tuesday. And then every Friday, we drop a Bestie Hotline, which is your agony, aren't your phone in, your dilemma, which we call Delimons, and we're gonna turn it into juicy, dilemma-nade. And then for those of you who want more, we have a special feed called More Time for This, where you can subscribe and get extra episodes.

40:47There are hundreds of those in the Bat Catalog. There's a whole world of fun over there in the More Time feed. We'll drop all the links to all the things, all the follows, all the episodes, our website, anything if you're keen in the show notes. Oh, yeah, we also do that. We finished each other's ends. It's a lot, and it's very weird and very twin-y and one-brain. And we can't explain that to you. All right, let's shut it down. See you later. Bye-bye.