True Crime Documentary - Every Parent’s Worse Nightmare： Breck Brednar

0:00MUSIC Social media is a huge part of where interactions take place for young people. However, a lot of these technologies I feel are a double-edged sword. I think this case was a wake-up call for everyone about the dangers of the online world, online contact, online communication and gaming in particular. The majority of people have really healthy and happy relationships with gaming. But on the fringes of video games there are these malicious individuals who will take people outside of gaming to more private spaces. I'm worried that Breck and the boys are being groomed by someone they're gaming with online and everyone's response, oh don't worry they're all online with strangers now, that's the norm. The warning signs are changes in your child's behaviour.

1:02Are they being secretive? Are they spending loads of time in their room by themselves? They communicate through the channel called Team Speak. He was being inundated by this predator. So she took away his means of communicating with him. Unfortunately, it made it more dangerous because it all went underground. I didn't recognise even how evil some people can be myself. Essex place, Madlette. Hi there. I need police and a friend, 16, to my address please. What do you mean? My friend and I got into an altercation and I am the only one who came out alive.

2:13I grew up in Michigan and then had the opportunity to move to London in 1997. When I decided with my ex-husband now we wanted to try to have a family. It took us four years to have Breck my first child. Finally, my dream came true and he was a dream baby. We took him everywhere. And we just really enjoyed it and two years later we actually had triplets. We hit the bonus and Breck was a great, great brother. He was helpful and he taught them things and he was always sort of my right-hand man. He was clever and probably all moms think that. But he was sort of labeled boy wonder from early age because he could just put things together. And he almost looked at puzzles and how things worked in a different way than I did and that I saw other people. He would just imagine how they worked. He loved all the sciences because that just fit right into it and computing and technology.

3:16We were living in Surrey and it was nice because we could walk to school together. I even started working at the Children's School. Breck just started getting more and more interested into computing and programming. And that was where the sort of friends he made at school, the ones who were the more science guys. And they actually did have a great sense of humor together and they invited him into a new gaming group when he was 13 years old. The majority of people have really healthy and happy relationships with gaming. It's likely that your friends, your colleagues, your family, out of all of them, someone within their World Play video games. In an online game, the developers create a world and that world is yours to explore with your friends. These online gaming spaces are the new malls, they're the new play parks. The majority of people come to video games and they have really great experiences. But on the fringes of video games there are these malicious individuals attracted to it precisely because it is popular.

4:25And these malicious individuals will take people outside of gaming to more private spaces. And in those cases it's not video games that are the problem, it's the individuals that will predict upon people within that space and try to remove them. Breakfast Bednare began gaming online. A number of friends of Brex were also playing these games online. They communicated through the channel called Team Speak. To me that felt safe because it was with friends from school who I had known since they were young. You know I never imagined that it would be anything other than those friends playing together. At home I would listen to what was happening on the computer which was mostly in sort of shared areas and doors were open.

5:27And literally when he was 13 years old noticed that there was an older sounding voice within the gaming group. And immediately it didn't feel natural and I was worried as a mom. And when I questioned Brex he said oh that's you know that's just Lewis. He runs the server, he's the best gamer, he's so clever, he's teaching us everything. And I was like oh well you know how do you know him and oh the boys have been gaming with him for years. They became acquainted through gaming online and the groups in a particular group. There was all run by Lewis Daines, he controlled all the members of the group and would take away privileges and definitely control their contribution. You could tell who was the boss. The best way to think of a gaming server is it's a space where you go to play a video game. And there can be public spaces and there can be private spaces. When you play on a public server you're playing lots of people with set rules.

6:30The thing with private servers is that if you're entering that space of someone who has bad intent then actually you're entering their domain. Breck Bedner enters a private server owned by fellow gamer Lewis Daines. Immediately it went through my head. Is this really a 17 year old as Breck claims? Or could it be you know somebody catfishing pretending to be something they're not? Even though I worked part-time at school my full-time job was being a mom. And so I did feel like I knew what was happening with the children and I could hear this older sounding voice speaking with Breck right in my own house. And it did worry me. I made the effort to try to get to know all of the boys within the gaming group. I'd say hey you know hey guys what's going on and they weren't really used to it. So the ones that knew Breck and the ones that knew me kind of clammed up and went quiet. But the person I didn't know Lewis would be chatty hey mom how you doing.

7:33We'd talk about the weather, what was going on. Breck had told me he lived in New York City so of course growing up in the States I was interested. How was that English boy living at 17 years old already in another country. And so I would ask questions and it was all very pleasant at that point. But what I noticed is I never felt like Lewis had real stories about what was going on in New York City. He was always on our time zone in England. I never felt like he was on a different time zone. When I would talk to Breck about it he'd say oh that's because he works his own hours mom. He's you know he's his own boss. He works for this you know government agency. Breck wasn't stupid but you know obviously didn't recognize sort of the evil in the world. So the stories didn't add up to me but the more that I tried to convince Breck, the more the Lewis tried to make it feel as if I was a mean mom that I was judgmental that I didn't understand computing and technology that I you know didn't want the best for Breck.

8:34Literally one of the you know sort of signs of grooming was this turning a child away from their parents. And he was trying to make out as if I was the bad guy. Online manipulation and grooming can be a very slow and subtle process. But some of the warning signs as a parent are changes in your child's behaviour withdrawing from friends withdrawing from family. Has your child had a big mood change? Are they being secretive? Are they spending loads of time you know in their room by themselves? Is there a certain anxiety about it? Do they talk about particular person who you've never met? There are things you can say as clues and I have to say at this point you know learn so all that. Over a period of time through the online gaming interactions, Lewis groomed brainwashed Breck. Over a period of months Lewis began to isolate Breck from his friends and his family

9:40and created a situation where Lewis became the only person that Breck felt that he could trust. Lewis stains uses the digital space to manipulate Breck and his online friends. Lewis Daines spun a web of lies on that gaming communication channel. He promised the boys and Breck in particular that they would earn £100,000 once they left school through this technology venture. And through that he managed to control access to the site who was allowed in and in particular he had a huge influence over Breck. None of them had seen him at that point. Lewis hid his identity. Eventually to alleviate the boys' concerns that I was bringing up he showed himself in a very sort of grainy dark room to just Breck and one other friend.

10:42And that way they easily reported back, yeah we met him. He's you know a teenager like us. Yes Breck's mom is paranoid. I think it was really confusing because the boys didn't recognise that predators can be any age. One of the ways in which Lewis isolated Breck from his family was to undermine his parents' mum in particular, criticizing her style of parenting. In one incident Lewis wrote for Breck what his mum later called a manifesto saying that if she didn't comply with his demands that Breck would leave home at the age of 16 and go and get a job that Lewis would provide for him. I kept trying to gather information and monitor what Breck was saying, what was happening. And when I would go into the room a wicked witch would fly across the screen.

11:42One day too I went in and said oh Breck it's time for dinner and a picture of Hitler marched across the stage. So I knew that you know what I was trying to do as a parent IEK Breck safe wasn't helping. Dane's creates private channels on the server to communicate solely with Breck. With Breck's friends Lewis fabricated an overheard conversation saying that he'd heard his friends saying that they didn't really like Breck. In fact they hated him, this story it was untrue but that also drew a wedge between Breck and his friends again reinforcing that Lewis was the only person left in the world of Breck to trust. I talked to everyone I knew about it. I said I'm worried that Breck and the boys are being groomed by someone they're gaming with online and everyone's response at that point. Oh don't worry they're all online with strangers now that's the norm. Nobody said whoa you know go to child exploitation or online protection command.

12:44I felt like I was seeking help but I was going in the wrong places. So I tried to talk to Breck himself. He couldn't see it. He was happy. He was enjoying the attention, the knowledge that he was gaining. There was a point where it was difficult for me to get him to do any family activity. And that was hard because he was being torn by the predator and by me. It felt like radicalization. It felt like he was teaching them extremists beliefs and thoughts and turning them against family, turning them against school. Breck and joined air cadets because he wanted to be a pilot. Lewis literally got in the middle of that and talked to Breck into quitting air cadets. Everything that was healthy and good and maybe the norm, this predator was trying to pull him away from. I literally decided I had to do the biggest most important thing that I knew how to do and that's when I found the police. The mother of 14 year old Breck Bedner is deeply concerned that an online predator is actively grooming her son.

14:09On the 13th of December 2013, Breck's mother, phone police, we're giving them as much information as she had gleaned about Dane's what she knew about his age, where he lived, etc. With the purpose of trying to understand from them, is this something that I should be worried about about my son? The operator who spoke to his mum, handled him in a way that when we look back now was completely wrong. They didn't do anything in terms of research into Dane's or trying to get an understanding of a relationship. Or was there anything of concern from the police's perspective or anything that they could give to the mum? So essentially what she set out to do and achieved, she couldn't do because of the way she was dealt with by the police. Three times I was told that police intelligence would be checked and I felt so relieved because I felt like I finally am going to get the answers and fix the issues.

15:15Sadly, I then waited for the investigation outcome. They told me to take away Breck's technology. So I did, I got off the phone and I took away all of his technology for a week and I then organized an intervention meeting with other parents and the boys two days later. And we sat them down and it was civil. I said I am worried that Lewis is grooming you and Breck said, oh that's a harsh term to say grooming. And then his dad said, well that's why we're worried Breck, you know, we feel that's what's happening. The ultimate sanction against Breck from his mum would be to remove all the computer and game equipment that he had to prevent him being able to communicate with Danes and that's what she did. So she took away his means of communicating with him. Now obviously that would have been the ultimate decision, a tricky decision and one that Breck himself wouldn't have lied.

16:21Unbeknownst to us, Lewis had told Brack to record the meeting in a little MP3 player that I had missed when I took away all the technology. And so the meeting was recorded, then it was able to do play to the other boys in the gaming group, again making the parents look like we were so awful and poor Brack look what he has to go through. And in the meeting we tried to convince them and eventually I think they just gave in because they just wanted the meeting to end after an hour or so and they said okay fine. We'll game with some other friends, we won't be friends with Lewis anymore because I said that's it if he won't meet with us then that's it, you know I'll meet up with a cop for a coffee, I'll meet in London, I'll meet in his town, I'll meet wherever or the dads, whatever would suit. And the boys literally said he'll never meet up with any of you, he doesn't like parents. So we then collectively said if he won't meet up then that's it, no friendship, no gaming, no interaction at all and the boys reluctantly agreed.

17:23Brack's parents give him back his computer equipment but only after he promises to cease all communication with Danes. For Brack's mum at this point it would have been a relief I think that this would hopefully be the end of the matter. Sadly that wasn't what Danes had in mind. He couriated a burner phone to Brack's home so he could continue the communications, continue the manipulation and the grooming. I felt like we had fixed the problem. Brack went back to being normal, the norm that he was, happy go lucky, if I asked him to do chores he'd do it again, if I said come to the table to eat he'd come and it just felt like everything was fixed. Unfortunately when I forbade Brack from speaking with this predator it made it more dangerous because it all went underground.

18:27In February 2014 everything appears to be back to normal. Brack leaves for a school trip to Spain. This was an opportunity for him to really experience a different culture and spend time with his friends face to face which I felt so pleased for. When I was left we hugged and kissed and I told him I loved him and I just never expected that to be the last time I would see him alive. The messages and he said it's great mom, the food, the people, I'm having a great time, sounded like he was really enjoying it. Unfortunately I did find out later that he was being inundated by this predator who didn't want to let go just because he was on a school trip. Even when Brack had met a girl and he had posted a picture leaning his head in with this girl and Lewis couldn't stand it.

19:29Take that picture down, she looks horrible. There was obviously an element of jealousy there, messages were sent, firstly about why aren't you responding as quickly as you should be to my messages. That's why I sent you the phone and also he then fixed illness to get asymptom sympathy and be some response from Brack. Brack stays at his father's home in Surrey after his trip to Spain. Lewis Daines continues to contact Brack via the burner phone, pressuring the teen to meet with him in person. Lewis Daines put in in Brack's mind the idea of, I'll tell your father you're at a sleepover, not with Lewis Daines but with one of his friends. And surprisingly father said yes that's fine because he knew the family that he said he would be staying with but that was fictitious. But that was all set up by Lewis Daines to get Brack's comes thing with him. And it was of course the first time they'd met physically. On the 16th of February 2014, a taxi arrived at Brack's father's home and as far as his dad was concerned, this was taking him to his friend's house for this sleepover.

20:48The actual fact what we know now is that this taxi was booked by Daines and it took him all the way to Grae's in Essex. A trip of about 30 miles costing about 100 pounds. As far as they were concerned at that stage, Daines was now out of his life. This was just a normal innocent sleepover. He told him that he was ill and it was because of this illness that he couldn't carry on with his business, his multi million pound IT business. And what he wanted to do was hand over that business to Brack. So if you just put yourself in Brack's position here, he was being promised that his future was made, that he would have everything that he wanted, everything that he saw that Daines had, he was going to be given to. All he had to do was get a taxi to Daines his home where they could discuss the handover of the business.

22:02I woke up and it was my birthday and I felt this sort of impending doom. I didn't know what was wrong. I then got a strange message from his dad and he said Brack didn't come home from his friend's house and I need him to look after the triplets and I don't know where he is. Immediately I was worried and started making phone calls and I phoned up his friends, I'm trying to get answers and they all sounded funny and they said, oh Brack's with his friend and then Brack's with that friend, they didn't know what to say. The reason they didn't know what to say is they knew something was very wrong. Unfortunately his dad called me back and I did get the absolute worst news any parent could ever get. On February 16th 2014, believing he is about to inherit a computing business, 14 year old Brack Pedner travels from the city of Daines to the city of Daines.

23:07On February 16th 2014, believing he is about to inherit a computing business, 14 year old Brack Pedner travels from Surrey to Essex to meet his online friend Louis Daines. The trip takes a turn the next morning when Daines makes a shocking call to the police. My friend and I got into an altercation and I am the only one who came out alive. Are you telling me you've killed somebody? Yes, I am. Right and who am I speaking to? My name is Louis Daines, I'm 18 years old and I live. You're telling me he is definitely dead? Yes, I'm telling you he's definitely dead. On this Monday morning around 11.06 a.m. Daines made a 9.99 call and in that call he said he needed the police and forensics to come to his home.

24:17He then went on to describe in his words what happened there. Right, okay Louis I need you to take me back for a bit again so what happened last night? I had a chest of drawers, I had a pen knife on there, he picked it up, opened it and then lost control. Slow down let me just take those details. Pedner from the bedside table, Brack Grab this, what in order to harm himself? No, in order to harm me. He portrayed it that he, Louis, would be in the victim of an attack by Brack and Brack had used a knife towards him. It sounds premeditated, it does sound pre-planned. The call handler confirmed to say are you saying that you've killed somebody to which Louis coldly says yes, I have. I am in self-defense put my left arm up to block him from stabbing me effectively.

25:21He struggled, I got into the ground, he got up, I got the knife, now I can't use him, can you not interrupt me with this part? Okay go on. He wasn't friends it, he wasn't panicked, he was slow, deliberate, telling this story and this account, pausing it various times and then telling the operator at the end of the line to be quiet and let him finish, he was in control and he wanted to control the narrative. This has been recorded anyway, I grabbed a knife and I stabbed him once in the back of the neck. I believe somewhere near the brainstem, he turned around, tried to carry it on and I think I stumbled on my chest drawers I fell over, I got back up back the way and then I remember exactly what happened but the fight ended with me cutting his throat.

26:31I believe I turned around and I flashed his throat. I fell, he fell face first on my bed, I tried to stop the bleeding. I was trying to compress the wound, I found out. Lewis, are you still in the room, wear breckies? No. Where are you? Don't, don't, don't, don't. Let me explain this, this is being recorded. Are the police on their way out in here? They are, they are. I'm going to go and do my part, thank you for your help. Right, just listen. He's the one that puts the phone down and says that he's now going to tell the story or help with the story with the police. It's one of the most chilling and extraordinary 999 calls that I've ever heard. The full details of what happened in Lewis's apartment that night in February 2014, we may never know.

27:38But what the paramedics and the police found when they did come to the apartment the following morning was breck lying dead in a pool of bloods, apparently having been stabbed in the neck. The first people to attend this call would be local uniform officers and they have a number one priority and that's a preservation of life. So when they're entering into Daines' flat, even though on the phone call Daines is saying, I mean, I'm in no doubt myself that brecks dead, they can't take that as final. They have to go in and check themselves to make sure there's no chance that they can save brecks alive. Sadly, when they go into the flat, it's quite clear that breck is dead and there's nothing that can do. So this would now be treated as a crime scene. Brecks body itself will be treated as a crime scene. And also, as somebody was there at the time Breck died, Daines himself will be treated as a crime scene.

28:44So it would be important to gain control of him to make sure any forensic evidence can be retrieved from him later on. The scene is secured and Lewis Daines is taken into custody. Crime scene investigators begin the process of collecting evidence. When these officers went into the flat, the investigators, and they walked down a long corridor, and one of the first things they see is a knife on the floor. They go into the living room, and within there they see a bag, a plastic bag containing cut up clothing. In the bedroom, on the bed itself, they see a laptop. The laptop is covered in blood. Within bins in the flat, the police found duct tape, which appeared as if it had been used to bind somebody's hands and feet.

29:44And in the bathroom, in the sink, which had been filled with water, they found various computer devices belonging to Lewis Daines, which he had apparently placed there to try and erase any of the digital evidence, any of the messages and communications, to try and basically destroy the evidence. Daines himself, after killing Breck, had had a shower. He's saying this was self-defense. He's saying this was an accident. I didn't mean to kill him. This isn't a load-up. If Daines is telling the truth, if this is an accident, why would this computer equipment be in water? And when we look at what we know about their relationship, where they met, it was all wrong lying. This would immediately jump out as an apparent attempt to destroy anything that was on the computer, essentially which would mean their communications between the two.

30:53The most common thing when somebody is saying self-defense is to, and a knife has been involved, is to look for defense injuries and allow some blood on Lewis Daines, there were no defense injuries. One of the significant factors was the air ambulance actually was arriving as Lewis Daines has been taken out to the police car, and there was clearly a bit of a panic that he thought what happens if Breck-Bednoss still alive. The police simply said, we're going to do everything to try and save him, but there was clearly a concern that what he was setting up to be a complete fiction might be unraveled if somehow Breck had actually survived. Investigators were shocked to learn that Lewis Daines had posted photos of Breck's body online. One of the many disturbing things about what happened is that photos of Breck's dead body were posted online very shortly after he died.

31:54And links to these posts were shared with Breck's family in particular, his siblings, three triplets, who are younger. At the same time as they received messages from their friends saying, is this true, it's so sad. His parents were receiving a phone call from the police to say that their son had been murdered. The fact that these images could get back so quickly to Breck's family really show the power and the impact social media can have. I can't even begin to put into words how that would have felt for that family to see their brother, their son in no circumstances. To me, it's absolutely tragic. I screamed and screamed and screamed and that damaged my vocal cords. I couldn't stop until I was sedated. I felt like I tried so hard. And yet this happened. My job was to protect my children and I tried. I just didn't get the right help that I needed.

33:02And I didn't know what I was up against, to be honest. I didn't recognize even how evil some people can be myself. And so I don't know, you know, I'm not surprised Breck didn't recognize it because this predator was extremely manipulative and controlling and even tried to control me. At the post-mortem it was later to be shown that at least four movements of the knife to the fatal wound to the neck, which again wouldn't have happened in a sudden coming together with two people in a fight with a knife. It was quite clear when the duct tape was recovered, there was circles of duct tape which was completely consistent with restraints around the wrists and the arms. They'd been cut off at some point. And equally Breck's clothing box of shorts and a t-shirt had been cut off in a way that was entirely consistent with him being constrained. So in other words, hands tied behind the back, you can't take the t-shirts off.

34:02Heirs on the inside of the tape showed he was around Breck. There was also blood on the restraints, including some on the underside of the adhesive bit. So again, some bleeding from Breck at the time that the restraints were put on. There were some more minor injuries as well as the fake injury. So one can just imagine that the knife being used to threaten and then put constraints on somebody. The The The The The The The The The The The The The The December 2014. Preparations are underway for the trial of 19-year-old Louis Daines, who has been charged with the murder of 14-year-old Breck-Bedner. Daines has been grooming Breck for the past year via an online gaming server before luring the team to his flat in Essex, where he stabbed him to death.

35:08He had tried to destroy any evidence in terms of communications, anything that could be on computers or phones. But one thing he didn't know is that in Breck's Rucksack, at the bottom of his Rucksack, was his iPad. There was information held on there that gave a police a real good indication of the communications between the two. They were able to see just the lengths that Daines had gone to to manipulate Breck. Along with the two young men that Louis Daines had been in touch with and the timing of what their messages were and how, what he was saying to them, started to build up a picture that was showing that initial account to be untrue. When he was interviewed, he gave an account still saying he was acting in defence, but saying that had actually been a sexual liaison between him and Breck.

36:12For the first time, it pretended to be a consensual relationship, none of which was true. Investigators dig deeper into Daines' background, discovering troubling information. At the point at which Breck Bedner was killed, Louis Daines was an 18-year-old man living on his own in Grey's In Essex just outside of London. He had experienced a disrupted, difficult childhood, his parents had separated, but from the age of 16, it appears as though he'd been living on his own in this flat. Essentially, his whole life was online. He was at home playing these games, hosting these games and spending hours upon hours talking to people who were all generally much younger than him.

37:14In 2011, there had been allegations that he'd sexually assaulted or raped another boy. Police had investigated this, they looked into it, but they decided not to take any action at the time. But when Breck's mum made the complaint to the police, the police should have looked at the police national computer where they would have seen that record of the allegation against Daines from 2011, and they didn't even check the computer to see that. If they had, the alarm bell surely would have wrong and the police would have taken action. The prosecution is prepared for a lengthy and complicated trial, but on the first day at Chumsford Crown Court, Louis Daines changes his plea. Louis Daines pleaded not guilty, and it was on the first day of the trial that there was some discussion, and he did ultimately then indicate he would plead guilty.

38:19He was still get a life sentence, but the judge has to set a minimum term that he would have to serve, and two of the significant factors on that is one, an intention to kill. And two, as Breck was a child, it was it sexually or statistically motivated. And when the judge looked to the circumstances around Breck's death, she concluded that he should be given 25 years minimum in prison. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't expect trial to only last two days. I think it would have been much harder sitting through hours and days of the trial. I was a little bit more careful of that pain, so in some ways I'm glad that he changed his plea. Maybe I won't hear every gory detail, but do I really need to? Breck was my amazing clever, beautiful boy, beautiful son, who almost forever. He had so much potential, but he'll never now reach. He had so much to give to those worlds.

39:25I want Breck's tragedy to help open the eyes of everyone to recognize the dangers of online predators. It is a very real danger today. We all need to look after each other. We have set up the Breck-Betnar Memorial Foundation to help raise money and awareness to help protect all of our children from danger. I'll never stop missing my Breck. Thank you. When I think of it, I think of Breck at that last minute when he realized, wow, you know, mom was right, and I hope he knows and remembered how much I loved and cared about him. Because if that would have been me, I would have been so scared to be treated that way. And it hurts me so much more because it's a child. And if only Danes hadn't gone after me, I was the one who hated. You know, he was hating me. Why didn't he kill me? I had lived enough, done enough, been enough places, and I do regret that his crazy actions weren't taken out of me instead.

40:32The Breck-Betnar Foundation was set up by Lower In the Favv to educate and spread awareness about children's safety online. Over the years, I've tried to use my voice and Breck story to try to help other children keep safe or online. And when we set up the charity with a bunch of volunteers, it was about bringing about awareness, about grooming, about the dangers online. And it can be groomed too, that predators can be any age, that you never know who you're really talking to. And all of those messages were so important. And then we went into education and empowering young people to make safer choices for themselves. What Lauren does and what the Breck Foundation does is hugely important because, you know, they did everything right and still they lost a child. And so what they're doing is they're letting people know that all children are at risk. But I do feel passionately that we have to look at this in a broader way.

41:39We've got to up our game and we've got to normalize what is healthy for children, what is good for children, they have a right to flourish. I think this case was a wake up call for everyone about the dangers of the online world and gaming in particular. And how people that children might not know who they've never met can entrap them and can lure them into dangerous situations. In 2025 there are 40 million gamers active in the UK which speaks to gaming's incredible power. And safety is a huge and urgent topic in video games. The biggest loophole in modern gaming that's making it hard for games developers are side channels so chats that happen off platform. If you move into discord or telegram, these are spaces that game designers just can't reach so they can't build safety tools for their players.

42:46We know how to create safe shopping malls, we know how to create safe play parks and we need to learn how to apply those lessons into a digital space just because it's in a game doesn't mean that it's not real. Breaks family have turned agony into action and you know despair into trying to you know make change and I think you have to admire there and you have to thank them for that. There are so many issues that children are struggling with now with content being sent to them that's inappropriate pushing eating disorders on them, the bullying, the grooming, the sex exploitation. I mean the list goes on and on and what I would say to people start off small start off carefully and don't think you have to do what everybody else does because children need rights of passage, they need boundaries, they need a child.

43:50We have a childhood and we have lost our children's childhood for them, they have had it taken away and they need to play outside, they need to enjoy nature, they don't need devices in their hands. I try to live a life that's normal but every day is hard and I hate every minute of missing Break and I miss him most minutes. I miss knowing what he would have really done, I miss hearing his voice and I miss his sense of humor and I just miss him because he was innately a good person.