The Seven Teams Without a Playoff Series Win in the 2020s!

0:00Coming up on the Zach Lo Show, it's September. Very little is going on. Most of it is clippers related. And that's why Law Murray from the Athletic is here. He covers the clippers. What's going on with the clippers? Why can't they stay out of the news? Even for silly things like Bradley Beale having Chris Paul's number, all of a sudden. Is anyone answering the phones with the clippers? Do the landlines still work? Do they have landlines? What's stuck the condor up to? We get into all of that briefly. And then the meat of it is we take to seven teams. They're only seven that have not won a playoff series in the NBA in the 2020s. Arbiturary deadline, sure, but it's fun. And we draft them and we do two drafts. Draft number one, who's most likely to break that streak this year? Draft number two, even more fun. Which one we most like to run as GM for the next five years? There are seven teams. I'm going to tell you which they are. You should try to guess them. And that's all coming up with LaMourin. And then special guest Luke Epplin is here.

1:02I'm not sure you've heard of Luke Epplin. You should. He just wrote a great book, Moses and the doctor about the 1983 Philadelphia 76ers. But more broadly about Moses and Lone, Julius Irving, the ABA, their journey to that title in 1983 for a team that is loaded up to try to win its first title since 1983. That's all coming up on the Zach Locio. Welcome to the Zach Locio. LaMourin from the athletic is here. He covers the clippers between. She's been extremely busy, but he also covers the whole league. He knows every team's rotation inside and out, which is going to come in handy for a fun little draft gimmick idea I have for today during the doldrums of September. Law, how are you doing? How are you dealing with the 100 degree heat, both metaphorically and literally the heat on the clippers and the heat in Los Angeles? Man, I'm trying to limit my movements as much as possible.

2:03I'm just trying to survive and subsist. You know that September is supposed to be the quiet part of the year for us. Chill out as much as possible so that you can actually prepare to cover this leading for nine months. And between this year and last year, that's been a myth. Something that you can actually put in practice. And yeah, we've had some crazy weather out here. You know what, man, I'm about as ready for pumpkin spices that the girls, the coffee shop right now. So, you know, I need that fall, whether to come in real quick. I've never, I've never dabbled in any pumpkin spice, anything coffee wise. Should I need to? I assume it's bad, which is why I haven't done. I've tried the pumpkin beer before, which was like, I don't understand why we have to do this. Anyway, look, Clippers, Clippers have dominated my last three podcasts. I'm going to take a little break from them. Obviously, I've done all the verdict to read the report five times. I just want to ask you this, have you talked to anyone in any kind of position of power with the

3:08Clippers since the verdict came down? I've placed a few calls, didn't think anyone would pick up. Nobody picked up. Not really, even sure who's running the team right now, I assume it's Trent Redden, but it's not like I've confirmed that with anybody because no one will pick up a call. Are they just like no one's answering any calls, or is it, is there any business going on? I mean, everything is kind of radio-esilver right now, even from a communication standpoint. Like Wednesday was a loud day last week, and they released one statement immediately, and then the letter from one of the many David Kelly's in our lives now came afterwards. It's been nothing, even on social media, it's been nothing. And to your point, they promised litigation. That's the only option they have. There's a Board of Governors meeting next week. I wonder who's supposed to sit in for that, given that to the people who would normally be in that spot have been suspended.

4:10You know who they should have to send? Chuck the Condor. Chuck the Condor should have to come to the Board of Governors meeting. It is stupid fat shoes with a stupid beak and sit in the Board of Governors meeting, and give a press conference afterwards where he just answers no questions, because that's the most of the, they might just just have a mascot no commenting, because no one's going to comment anyway. That mascot was me for you specifically, Zach. Just so you know, that's- No, Chuck's name started with- You started writing about mascots, and that's when they're like, you know what, you don't get Don't blame me for Chuck the Condor, okay? You can blame me for a lot of things, but not for Chuck the Condor. Okay, but the one thing that they did make news today was Bradley Beale's taking Chris Paul's number. It's just like the ball of the days to do this. First Chris Paul goes on a podcast. I can't remember which one saying he's never been more disrespected in his career than when the Clippers waved him in the middle of the night. Bam, one night last year in Miami, I think. And now Bradley Beale, brother, he was a great player, take his number, whatever.

5:11I mean, I don't know. Can they just like retire Blake Griffin's number out of nowhere for just some dose of good will? Yeah, and I just say this because I don't really make this point publicly. I've made it privately plenty of times because a lot of people will have asked me about this scene that I cover. This is most A historical franchise in the league certainly, and I don't- you'd have to involve some other sports leagues. I think they'd be up right up there too. When I say A historical, obviously it's a bad history, specifically in the eighties when this franchise moved to Los Angeles, but under the current ownership and lead of the president, business president specifically, I mean, they have not- this is an intentional choice to not really honor any part of their franchises past, but the way that they have handled things with the recent and successful pillars of their

6:18past. I mean, you don't get Kauai here without love. So you gotta truly leave that. They have- they have shown that they're not very interested in that. They have not even right now. They are not showing that they are interested in even addressing their fans in any way possible. You know, everything has been defensive about what has come out. And I mean, I don't even put this one in Brad because Brad gave up his number last year. He was here before Chris and they have a great relationship and Brad was zero so Chris could have his number. This isn't about Brad. This is about who makes these decisions to say we're keeping this number at a circulation which they did when Chris wasn't here for seven years. And now the first all season Chris is done playing. They give this number. So Brad's taking the heat, but let's apply the heat where it absolutely should be. And that's all in the clippers seeing that has been increasingly toned out for over the last couple of years.

7:20I was just gluing now to see what number Chuck DeCondor wears. If there's anything embarrassing about it, he wears two, one, three, there you go. So there you go. Yeah, look, I mean, I don't want to talk about the clippers anymore. Here's the here's the gimmick for to. By the way, by the time this comes out, who knows, maybe Balmer is who to leave. I will be at Board of Governors next week eagerly awaiting all the fallout, all the comments. I've talked to a bunch of owners about this. They are all kind of like, wow, okay, the report said a lot of stuff that, you know, really solidified everything and like he's getting what he deserves. But anyway, okay, onto today's gimmick. In thinking of like fun things to do in September, I just started kind of tooling around. And I came up with this seven teams out of 30 have not won a playoff series in the NBA in the 2020s. So in the just the last six seasons, seven seasons, I guess, 23 of the 30 NBA franchises have won at least one playoff series. There's a couple that are just squeaking in in 2020. The rockets and

8:22the Raptors, that's the last time they won our arbitrary cutoff dates and round numbers stupid or human caveman brains stupid. And we like round numbers. Yeah, but we got to do something. So seven teams have not won a playoff series in the 2020s. Here they are. In no particular order. The Charlotte Hornets 2002, I think is their last playoff series win. That's a long time. Law. You would love you were like barely born in 2002. The Washington Wizards, the Sacramento Kings, they lived the second longest drought 2004, the Chicago Bulls, the New Orleans Pelicans, the Portland Trail Blazers, in the Orlando Magic. Those are the seven teams that have not won a single playoff series in 2020. We're going to draft them, rank draft them in two ways. First, we're going to pick and I'm going to give you the you can choose if you want the first pick or not. Who is most likely to break that streak this coming season and then more fun, which team of the seven again, redrap would we most

9:25like to run for the next five years and run I guess is GM. So we got to work for Tom Dundin if we want to run the Blazers. So we got to be we don't get to be the owner, the governor, we get to be the GM. Okay, you can have the first pick if you want. Let's start again Orlando, Charlotte, Washington, Portland, Pelicans, Bulls, Kings. Who has the we're going to start? Who has the best chance to break their no series win streak this year? Do you want to draft first in this round or the long term round? Oh, give me the first pick in this round. Okay. Yeah, first pick, I'm going to go with the team that Dan Neared Knockoff of one seed and that's the Orlando Magic. They are they they have the strength of continuity of the strength of being a good team that's been in the mix on. We are waiting for Franz Bodner and Palabin, Karen, Jalen Suggs to play a respectable amount of games together in the same season. They have a foundation of defense. They have the things

10:26that I think they they are well suited for playoff basketball. They lost what two games seven is over the last three years. I think it makes sense for them to we'll see how Sean Sweeney approaches that roster. But I think they have as good a chance of the 17s to not just make the playoffs, but to get to the semi finals at least. Yeah, they were number one with the bullet on my list. It's an easy call. I'm a little worried about their depth and particularly since their starters all had histories of missing games though, then Desmond Bayne who's kind of an iron man for them. We'll see maybe De Silva makes a little bit of a leap. Maybe the Jamal can thing at the end of last year when he had the dunk of the year is like semi real. We'll see. I'm so I'm a little worried about their depth, but I think their top end talent, their defense is just so good. I think they're going to actually kind of getting slept on as a candidate for like the fifth or sixth seed in the east. It's going to require some things to go wrong on the true juggernauts in the conference, but

11:27I think a couple of those juggernauts Boston and Philly in particular, maybe even the calves have a little bit of volatility and some downside volatility to them. So I think Orlando's they're just like rock solid. And if they get in, they're going to have a chance. So they were my they were my number one pick two. I get the number two pick. This is also an easy one for me. Well, not that easy, but here's what you have to think about like the east is harder to get into the playoffs, even into the play in than the west, but we're talking about franchises that are, you know, on the bottom or the upswing, they're going to be seven and eight if they get in most likely, which means in the west, you're facing San Antonio, or Oklahoma City. And so as much as you might want to pick a western conference team, hi, I don't really think you can. I will pick the Charlotte Hornets with the second pick in the draft. They have a chance to be a pretty dynamic offensive team with Nas Reed at the four. They're super deep like they're they're going to have guys who played last year,

12:27both for Charlotte and other teams who are just not even in their rotation this year like Cian James might have to fight for a rotation spot. Grant Williams may have to fight for rotation spot, although I think based on his play last year, he should get one. T John Salon probably like the number six whose whose team option going forward is kind of a big deal for them, like an interesting decision. I don't know if it's a no-brainer. He may not be in the rotation. They have Roy Sonio, Grayson Allen, that they added in the Miles Bridgestrade, Kobe White for Lamello, probably a little bit of a step back offensively, but I don't know how much of a step back it's really going to be when you add the added spacing of Nas Reed. They're kind of penciling in his eleventh in the east. I think that's probably appropriate. Defensively it's going to be a bit of a challenge for them, but I think on some nights they're going to pour in like 130 points, you're going to be like wow the horn is just like shot 53s or 63s and made 24 of them. So just pure upside if they get in,

13:30someone on the calves or the pistons is injured, like who knows? So they were my number two pick. I think that's an interesting number two pick because I feel like they're going to miss Lamello a lot this season coming up. I just I want to see how they play basketball pretty much like because when you have Lamello, you have a guy who naturally draws, you know, double teams absorbs that and then you have I feel like that made the game pretty easy for the rest of those guys, especially January on. They weren't just beating teams that they were demolishing them and it was good teams that they were beating. I mean they put it on some of the best teams in the league, West or East and I want to see how Charles Lee reestablishes how he's going to facilitate at creating advantages. I can see if they figure it out with the group of guys they have, I think they're going to be a relevant in the east, but I can see the floor keeping them

14:33in that bottom five in the east as well. Like I said, I think 11th is appropriate for them. I am like a Lamello top 1% like media supporter, so to speak, I guess I think he's very good. I'd to play off-swirl challenge him if he ever gets there physically, defensively, all that stuff. Regular season, when he's healthy, another big question, no question, he was like, he was their best player last year. He was their offensive fulcrum and I think part of their bet is Khan and Brandon Miller can both level up a little bit. Kobe White can be 80% of Lamello, we'll see if that's true or not. I like the Steinbach kid they drafted by the way. Okay, you get the third pick. Yeah, so Charlotte would have been about third pick. So I'm going to have Portland up here. Portland had a very weird year last year, which is appropriate because it's Portland, anyone who's been in Portland can understand that. They got better as the year went on and they

15:37have a core there where I feel like over the last quarter of the year, they were the best defense in the league. Dominic Plingen is a real presence there. Drew Holiday, when he played, they were really good when he didn't play. They looked like a team that was going to be like most of the Blazers teams that we saw in the 2020s. They have way too many guards who in one aspect or another need the ball. I really want to see how Mike and Nori figures that out, but there's something to work with there, even when she's in sharp being out until February. There's something to work with there. I don't think again, you already got one injured guard. We don't expect Ja Drew, Dame Liller, those guys have all been injured. I'm scouting Mr. Buncha last year, but they're going to have a bunch of guards who neither of them need to do more than necessary because your best own ball player is Danny Obdia. We have to treat Dame Liller like a Achilles tendon patient,

16:40not like the franchise legend who was doing things the last time Portland won a playoffs series. That's why we're in this conversation now. If they can retain the kind of defense that they played last year, if they can just organize their offense, I think the biggest issue with their offense last year is it was thoroughly disorganized. Maybe that's a thing that happens when your head coach gets arrested and banished one game into season. Could be. Also no one can shoot. That's where they are a bad shooting team from all over the floor. Maybe that gets better this year with Dame back and with some of the young guys developing it without shade and sharps long twos. Look, like quality wise, they would be that if the league were a conference list playoff structure, they would be the number two pick in this draft. I had them actually fourth just because of the Oklahoma City San Antonio, even if things break right in their sixth, they're going to face Denver or somebody like that. Now you put them against the team like Houston who's got some

17:43volatility in it as well. That could be different, but I like this team defensively. They're going to be really hard to play despite well, I don't know if that's true anywhere with the guards that they're going to start, but there's something here. I had them fourth though, which means I get to pick now with the fourth pick the team. I had third. I can't believe I have them third. I have the Washington Wizards now that I will take in this draft. Look, it's the East, it's the East, and if you draw the right team in the 1-8-27 matchup and you have Anthony Davis healthy, if you saw on the team and you have Trey Young healthy, if you saw on the team and you get some development from your young guys, like who the hell knows? I don't know. I don't think the Wizards are going to be very good. I'm not sure how long Anthony Davis is going to be on the team. I know the defensive limitations of Trey Young. I have absolutely no earthly idea why they signed him to a max contract with the freaking player option at the end of it or a borderline max contract, whatever it was. But there's like some quotient of actual NBA talent here. Super excited for a debanza. We'll

18:48Riley year two, Trey Johnson year two, Kishan George year three. I just look if everything went right and they draw an opponent who's got a guy and a half injured, who the hell knows? So they're my pick and I'm sticking with it and I think we've hit the right top four. I don't know, where did you have Washington? Yeah, I had Washington and that four spot as well. I mean, fit is a complete theory and we just, you know, but improvement is one thing. Like we're not talking about, hey, they'll be better. They're trying to win games. They have veterans. I don't think they won 20 games in the last three years. They're going to clear those very low bars. For me, we didn't even, like AJ Devon said, I'm so intrigued to see what kind of player that dude is going to be in year one. How much of a workload will he need to have being at? This isn't Cooper Flag. Cooper Flag had a come in there and Jason Kid was like, hey, I made Yannis

19:53a point guard. We're just going to do that because we have a complete derth of any other place our her options. Like, AJ doesn't have to do that. And then defensively, they are, their roster is trying this year because besides AD, they have Alex R and they have forgotten to mention Alex R, who have always been pretty, pretty probably higher on than consensus. Koolabale is solid defensively. I think he probably comes off the bench this year. But to your point on debancer, everything he showed on the ball in summer league was like, whoa, now he's not going to be on the ball as much because Treyung is going to be on the ball a lot because that's what Trey does. Can he, can he do the off ball? So he's going to make enough jump shots. He's going to do the off, but now he can do some screening and we'll see how that fits with AD and Sarr, who are also screeners. It's kind of like we talked about Portland. If Denny doesn't have the ball, how much is he diminished as a player? And if he does have the ball, what is John Morant doing off the ball? And

20:54he's still pleased. So these are all the, these are why these questions are why these teams are in this conversation. But I think we've hit the right top, top, what do we for in? Yeah, we're for in. So you get to pick fifth. Now we're now we're now we're down to the Pelicans, the Bulls, and the Kings. And again, the question is most likely to snap their streak of not winning a playoff series this season. I think number five is pretty clear. And it's depressing the bottom three, but who you got in fifth? I got the Pelicans at five. It's got to be the Pelicans. Yeah, I got the Pelicans at five. It's another team that didn't really do much with their roster at all. We're waiting on the official acquisition of Benedict Matherin. That's obviously just a formality at this point. But I mean that team they expected to be better last year. They weren't, we'll see what Jamal Moseley has to do. Jamal Moseley, in here, it's a lot of the same issues

21:58in New Orleans right down to a no more one overall pick out of Duke at PowerFord. You know, trying to figure and offense around that ball heavy player and go from there. So we are not saying to you folks that these teams will one make the playoffs or two win a playoffs here. We're just ranking a set of teams. And New Orleans is a team I feel better about with that specific endeavor than the other two teams we have the two strong. Look, New Orleans just sheer talent has to be the pick here. It's actually they they it's I would probably even place them higher. Again, there's just a conference thing where if we're talking about winning a playoff series, they're just not going to beat the best teams in the West. But you know, you put Dejante Murray who looked pretty good in his brief appearances last year. Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Zion, you've got something there. Those players have barely played together. That's

23:00something. The starting center thing you would assume they would like to start Derek Queen, Ian Jeremiah fears are the two most important young players on the team. Like both of them a lot. Queen and Zion together looked pretty unplayable defensively last year and forced Zion to kind of figure out and you throw Murray in and this is doubly so. Like how do I exist without the ball as much as without having the balls much as I used to have it. And you know, there was like more of Zion and the dunker spot more of him just trying to figure it out. Maybe that's healthy. Maybe it's not. But even coming off the bench, you know, you've got fears, mathering, maybe Queen, maybe Yves Misi. So did you say who started a bunch last year? So did you pay who was just bullying dudes one on one all year making mid range jumpers? There's just a there's just enough talent here where they should outpoint the bulls and the Kings and we don't need to spend a lot of time on the last two teams. I think in all the exciting, I will take the bulls six, by the way, over the Kings and neither of these teams has any shot in the hell of winning a playoffs series. So who cares? I just think I will

24:02keep it brief. I think in all the excitement of over Caleb Wilson, just like I can't wait. Caleb Wilson's awesome. Norm Powell's here on the two year deal. Bozellis made a big leap last year, kind of fringy, most improved player conversation guy could be in that conversation again. Nick claxton is on the team for some reason. Giddy is just kind of what he is, which is a 18, 8 and 8. But how much is he actually helping you win at the highest level? The bench is going to be pretty inexperienced. I would say if they play the guys that I hope they would play, except for trade zones who had an like sneaky really good year for them last year. I think for all the excitement about their team, they're going to be pretty bad this year and that's completely fine. I just think there's no world in which I can take the Kings anywhere other than last year. So you get the honor of taking the Kings last and we will revisit them later. But anything you want to say about these these two teams? Yeah, I'll just I'll just say about the Kings

25:04but team that I didn't have last actually. I have the Bulls last. I just I just I just feel like the Bulls are on. I feel like they're going to fire sale in the season. I'm glad you brought that up because part of this discussion should have been and I should have mentioned it was Charlotte in particular early is they do the Hornets if like they're way better than expected or even a little better than expect like oh we could be seventh or eighth in the East. They have everything they need to go out and get a big time player. If any big time player that fits them become a bit becomes available more so than any of these teams. Ebalt Portland is right there with them too but not quite as much. We'll talk about all that stuff in the second draft but yeah like the fire sale so who do you see as the fire sale guys in Chicago? Man, Norman Powell first of all. Yeah it does feel like Norm is going to get buckets. I think he's done a great job in the first

26:07half of seasons the last two years and some team is going to be interested in him. It behooves the Bulls to see what they can get for him then. I think that his values for that team decreased it significantly after the trade deadline so I don't you know not saying he's definitely going to get traded I can just see him being involved in team saying hey can we get Norman Powell around January, February, Nick Klexton to a to a lesser degree same thing and then you mentioned Tray Jones like Tray Jones is a real good best player man. He's solid like he's just not exciting because he don't jump high and he doesn't really like shoot in threes like at all and you know but this is a dude who as a as a non-explosive point guard makes 55% of his field goals and you know

27:09that you know that assist the turnover ratio is in his jeans. We saw Tias for years not turn the ball over and facilitate good offense like what does that look like for a team you know if some team takes on Tate Tray Tray's got a team option for 2027 as well so again 8 million bucks like really good money for like a backup like a top top level backup point guard who can fill in as a starter anytime they would a lot of different dudes he played next to Gidey last year as a starter to non-shooting guys but Tray Tray makes it work so what does that look like come February we'll have to see um the Kings I think I'm just giving the Kings just a little bit I mean credit that they won't really deserve but I'm just intrigued by Sacramento from the standpoint of they

28:09had a bunch of dudes who just didn't play last year the Monastery basically had the year off Zach basically had the year off um DeAndre Hunter gets there gets scratched in the eye he's done after two games uh Keegan basically had the year off those are four starters that's fair that's fair you know what's that's fair and Simmons is coming back they they drafted some and and villain cardwell's case not drafted but found undrafted they found some contributors again we're not saying these things will be good in the playoffs or competitive in the playoffs if they find a way in there but I do want to see with a more respectable amount of games played what that team looks like because Jack I don't know about you I did not see a 60 lost Kings team this time last year did I think they'd be a playoff team no but they had been in the mid 40s not mid 40s they had been

29:12around the 40 win range the previous few years everything that could have went wrong last year were wrong are they a 60 lost team or are they closer to a 50 lost team are I'm intrigued to see what it looks like with a maybe a more cohesive roster it's a great that's a great slogan for the 2026 2027 Sacramento Kings maybe we're just a 50 lost team come out and see the Kings at the Golden One Center um like the Bulls by the way the Kings are a bad team that controls their own draft in a new lottery world where it behooves them to maybe try not to be one of the three worst teams in the NBA and go into the relegation zone where you get one less one fewer ping pong ball so they're incentivized as are the Bulls to try to win uh on the flip side they have a guy who has all but put a trade me t-shirt on in Demontos subonus who fired his agent hired a new agent at CAA and you know I think it's an open secret that would like to not be on the Kings um he's a floor

30:16rate he's an elite floor raser whatever you think of his limitations defensively it the lack of shooting range that just hasn't really come along um you've kind of kind of played through him on offense and and mitigate him on defense he's a hell of a player he's an all star he's a floor raser both for the Kings and we will get into this in part two for maybe a team that starts off slower than expected gets scared off by the new lottery rules and it's like hey this guy's got only got one more year left on his contract yay he might we might have to pay him his next deal it might be a little too much but he's gonna help us win 38 games or 35 games and now that's a bigger deal does we don't want to actively suck but you're right you know you put in Levine I don't know how much he wants to be there I don't know how much if any trade value he has what did they need Keegan Murray to have a bounce back year I liked me Clifford is a bench guy I like Maxine Rayno as a bench guy and I am proud to say you brought him up first I am proud to say the Zach Lowe show leads this is an official statistic leads all NBA podcasts that are not Kings

31:18podcasts in mentioning Dylan Cardwell's name I am like a Dylan Cardwell super fan I'd like to be friends with Dylan Cardwell I feel like if you followed me around everything good that I did even something simple is like picking my daughter up from school driving the carpool without any sort of beeping our incident he'd be pumping me up and shearing for me and raising the roof and I'd be like I like having Dylan Cardwell around he gets rebounding and makes everyone happy so thank you for mentioning him all right that's our draft so in order of breaking the playoff streak this year to review Orlando Charlotte you took Portland three Washington New Orleans Chicago Sacramento let's take a quick break and we'll do the more interesting discussion of like which of these themes we want to run for the next five years this episode is brought to you by state farm every player brings something different to the field some at speed some at power some have their own podcasts that's true that being said no two players are exactly a like and the same

32:21is true off the field that's why state farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget like a good neighbor state farm is there all right new draft we're taking the same seven teams the win list and the playoffs teams in the 2020s and now instead of just focusing on this year we're zooming out next five years which of these themes from best to worst most want to run to least want to run would you want to be the GM of I get the first pick in this draft and to me this is a pretty easy pick and it's the Charlotte hornets I have Brandon Miller I have Conn Canipple I have a whole ton of extra draft picks starting with the Mavs top two protected pick this year I have a heat lottery protected pick this year that becomes unprotected if it doesn't convey this year and I have these 2033 picks unprotected from Phoenix via the Miles Bridgestrade and from I believe Minnesota via the Lamao Ball Trade

33:26I'm just so rich with assets I'm pretty lean um cap wise like I could get room if I need to get room particularly uh in like the summer of 2028 before Conn Canipple's new deal comes back I got to figure out Brandon Miller I can get a decent amount of room that year I can always maneuver you know to get more room if I want to not bring back Tijon Solan if I want to not resign Wusadiyabate who I think they should resign if for some reason I don't want see on James down the line I can cut Finney Smith and all that stuff like I got just a ton of flexibility um and I got a pretty good team that's pretty exciting right now the Lamao trade you and I kind of both agree we're we like Lamao more than most uh it's going to be a step back but like long term I didn't think that real that hard about who I would pick first in this draft I really would like to run the Charlotte or it's there in a good spot I would have picked Charlotte number one as well I mean the Lamao Ball Trade it hit me uh hit me in the hit me right in the starting man um just because I really

34:32wanted to see that team take a step but you know what they did sermon that they were selling high they got a great year at a Lamao because they managed him right you you said hey health is a thing for him we'll see how he handles his calorie if he makes playoffs which he better that meant so it seemed better make playoffs next year but I mean they sold high maybe it's a short you know step back this year but they are setting themselves up to be the team that they want to be for years to come and even now they look they look deep I'm worried about the ceiling of that team in the short term long term I mean they they have a lot of flexibility and to pick a team number two I find is really difficult here and so so so to your to your point I had number one with a bullet and number seven with like whatever the opposite of a bullet is like a nerf ball uh two to six

35:33I actually think six is pretty clear too but two let's just be generous say two to six you can really order any way you want depending on what kind of GM situation you'd want to walk into what kind of moves you'd like to make right off the bat I'm very interested in I I switched teams around multiple times I'm very interested to see how we do this I had a number two pick I like the lot well let's see if it's the same team yeah um and I don't feel great about this but I'm actually going with Washington here oh I did not have them number two but I had them I had well I won't spoil where I had them yeah don't spoil it on I think the reason it's difficult is obvious like the they pay trade they might pay Anthony Davis and if even if they don't they gave up a even draft capital to get him and the fit is like okay what does the what does it look like so that's not that's not as great um but they are a team in a in a pretty good market

36:41they just got the number one pick they've had draft picks that they've been developing for the past few years so they have a core of prospective role players ready to go that they have decisions to make on and I don't yeah I want to I want to see how good AJ can be because I think the best thing that you can have as a franchise is a blue chip guy a difference making guy like we talked about this draft for a long time and we saw that teams tanked aggressively in a way that made the NBA change their rules for this draft and the Washington Wizards got the number one guy in that draft I think that even with trades contract the lack of success in recent years what you gave up to get AD what you might get to keep him what happens if you don't keep him I think those are massive questions but they're number two because I like their number one guy um more than there the other

37:49guys here it's interesting I had the Wizards three which means I had them above teams that are like objectively way better than them and in the case of Portland I don't want to spoil it probably has better giraffe equity coming from other teams than the Wizards the Wizards have some stuff they have an extra pick in 28 a couple of swaps here and there that could be good they could be not good we'll see but just like it's just about AJ DeBonza like I have I have a 19 year old who was a legit number one pick in a great draft has a chance to be a franchise player we'll see like Orlando has a couple of really elite borderline all NBA if everything's going right and they're healthy guys in Palo Bunkero and Franz Wagner maybe AJ DeBonza never even gets as good as Palo Bunkero is right now and Palo Bunkero is still young I just would bet on the upside and I've got like I'm even factoring in like I'm even holding the following things against the Wizards a they may not have any cap room at all until the summer of 2029 because of tray young giant contract and all the

38:52other deals they have to negotiate or renegotiate um and god forbid they pay Anthony Davis and dip further into their cap room I even just like I in trying to be pessimistic and realistic in my assessment of them like let's assume the law cool of Ali like doesn't quite make it and maybe they resign him to a deal that's like you know fair for him around the mid level maybe they don't maybe he's not part of their core let's assume Bob Carrington who I don't really love and hasn't quite figured out his role in the NBA although he shot the three well pretty well last year very well let's assume he doesn't make it let's assume one of will Riley and Tray Johnson both of whom I really like end up kind of being empty calories you know gunners that don't quite fit I actually don't think that's true I like that both of them on my team I like the bansa I like sar I like George I like the extra picks um and I just think the bansa is is that enticing um I actually had the Wizards third as I said which means I had a team ahead of them uh which I will now take with a

39:55third pick for the exact same reason and it's the Chicago Bulls uh I have Caleb Wilson on my team Noah Senge we'll see what he becomes uh Dale and Swain we'll see what he becomes but I have Caleb Wilson and I have Matas Pusellas and I have all the cap flexibility I can need going forward now again kind of feather and Washington's cap is that cap room is not like the the the years of cap room getting you like superstar free agents and being used in that way kind of over and so Washington not having cap flexibility not a big deal I'd still rather have it than not in the position of these teams because I can be predatory taking on some bad contracts to get picks taking on a player nobody wants but I think is good whatever the situation facilitating trades whatever it is they've got a lot of that they control all their first round picks they don't have any extra first which I don't love I like to be able to short some other teams like Portland is going to be able to do Washington's going to be able to do Charlotte as I said certainly Ken for many many years um they've got

40:58decisions to make like I don't I don't think Rob Dillingham is really slated to be part of this core long term we'll see could prove me wrong I think his his uh team option is sort of like another interesting up for grabs decision they've got some they've got a potential you know long term hole at center uh I like jail and Smith I might be interested in extending him if I were the bulls but I'm not sure he's a starting starting center on a good team claxons alright as a placeholder but just to me look it's Caleb Wilson Matus Buzellis at the three and the four figure out the rest and the rest of the by the way Gidey is still very young if Gidey is a good player and if he if you want to throw him part of this core two that's fine um but figure out the rest I've got all my picks I got cat flexibility and I'm and at some at some level law I would just like to save the Chicago Bulls they're a cool brand they mean something to me as an old 49 year old old basketball fan um the the Alan Parsons project theme song from North Carolina like that

42:02will still gets me pumped up I would just like to be around that so I'm taking the bulls and that's what that's it so we're three in what do you think was I too high on the bulls well the bulls for your the reasons you outlined were seeing that I was not like this one make it difficult with the Washington decision the reason why I basically went with Washington or Chicago besides AJ uh the bulls are so owned by someone who just doesn't take full advantage of the fact that they're in Chicago literally the biggest market in the league outside of New York and Los Angeles and now that would be all right but so by alternative I feel like that's a challenge but my alternatives are well if you so so I had them over Washington you get deadly oncissus your owner my alternatives for for the rest of the draft are Tom Dundin the divorce family gale Benson and or whatever it becomes

43:02of the pelicans and the that market which is struggled to really sort of develop a big following and Rebecca on a dv so I feel good I feel good taking the bulls in the third in the third spot over for even despite the Ryan store of concerns right um should we go into number four then yeah you get the real hard pick now number four I am very curious to see what you did here and whose fans are going to be insulted by this pick yeah I'm I'm just going with the Orlando Magic um I think they should be they should they should feel like they should be higher so when you pick the Atlanta Magic here behind some of the teams that we've had we are obviously saying that we don't love their future situation but that's up to the players and it's up to what happens this season I think you're the question you have with Orlando is are they stuck or are they in a good spot um they I think it's a little bit I think it's it might be a little bit of both um which is why they're here

44:04to say but go ahead that's why they're here like Franz has a long-term contract pal has a long-term contract with a player option Desmond has a in I think the way you have to talk about the NBA these days he has a long-term contract and you gave up pretty much your last assets to get him doesn't mean it's a very good player who absolutely fits not just a need but you know just in general good player um you know I like I like that I'm despite the risk I like them kind of going for it on that trade last year I like a little less a year later but that's that's life yeah like that's the they are a team that is supposed to do their best work while these while these players are under the contracts that they have now have even Wendell Carter as a team option in 2028 you know like I'm interested to see what to an attack when Andy me black the decision that is going to be made there um does he get paid do

45:04they play the restrictive for agency game with him um you know I can I can argue for either they don't have a lot of ways to improve what they have right now unless they break the team up they change the coach so they made it clear that this is going to be on these players and it's not it's going to be on the players now more than the coach like you have like bullets you can you you buttons you can push right you can push the change the coach button they've done that then if this doesn't work in the next year then someone among those core players has to be removed somehow especially since you trade it so much to get Desmond um I'm intrigued to see how it works so I don't need to be overly optimistic about it um don't you're not you picked him for us you picked him forth I actually will insult the magic fans even more I picked him fifth and I'll tell you who I picked ahead of them in a second and again it's no insult we all just drafted

46:06them number one in the who's most likely to win a playoff series this year it would seem in congruist to now knock them down to four in your case five in mine for the next five years rankings especially since their two best players are 25 and 24 years old respectively no one in the rotation is over 28 years old unless Javon Carter really cracks the rotation or Vuchavitch does or somebody like that um it would seem in congruist right and they are not like totally out of picks because of the bane trade they can treat their pick obligations stop in 2030 they have their own picks in like the intervening years although some of them are swapped so they're going to be the worst of whatever it's not great it's not great but starting in 2032 I can trade picks I can trade that pick moving forward um I just like we both picked them to win a playoff series it's hard for me to see this core given what we've seen of them both health wise and chemistry wise winning two or three playoff series and that's why I have them fifth and I could be dead wrong about that because

47:07defensively they're going to be rock solid they're going to be well coach I just don't know I guess I would have to see the Wagner-Bank Arrow pairing amount to a little bit more than it has it's to for them to amplify each other a little more than they have and I understand that if you look at their numbers with jail and Sugs is he the skeleton key that unlocks the whole group the whole lineup and maybe is he just doesn't he doesn't play that much and so I the out they have though is if they conclude it doesn't look they're going to have to make a trade at some point they can't pay black bane Wagner-Bank Arrow and Sugs they just can't it's too much money and the out they have is if we do get through this year and we're a 44-win team and we're just another we're a mess offensively still we're 18th 19th 17th whatever at best we can trade Wagner Wagner-Bank Arrow for a pretty good amount of stuff I think because even again like the new lottery rules teams are going to look at those players they're like they're young they're floor razors they might be

48:10flawed but they can really help us and then I get a team that may still be a decent team to a good team with my picks replenished but you know that's a hard road to host so I had them fifth and I had the Portland Trailblazers fourth I flipped flopped Portland in Orlando a bunch of times and what ultimately really swayed me is for three straight years 28 29 and 30 the blazers essentially have the rights if the thing if if it breaks that way to Milwaukee's pick they're shorting the bucks three straight years and right now that looks like a really good place to be they've also got some other you know swaps and things like that I don't know what's going to become just good I don't know if this Moran thing is going to work I'm kind of pessimistic I'm really intrigued by Klingon I love Kamara I love Obdiah who's still only 25 years old Samus Bank Arrow don't love the market don't love what I you know I don't really care that I have cap room in the summer of 2028 when Obdiah's deal expires but it's it's such a low deal that is

49:15cap hold is really low and then Klingon comes in on top of that but I just like like three bites at the bucks apple I just I feel like it like maybe I get my version of what we're talking about with DeBanza and Caleb Wilson and I kind of would just again I'd happily run both these teams with the magic I get I get to enjoy my team now because we're going to be a good team I get to enjoy winning I get to walk around town be like yeah the magic are 50 and 32 we're going in for the 60 whatever it is that's cool I just I I also like the Blazers jerseys and their stuff like that that'd be fun to wear around I just like I like this sort of like lottery ball upside I get with with some with some good talent already in the door so I took Portland took Portland at four yeah I I can't I can't get there with Portland um like that ownership situation upsets me greatly it's just it's like it's upsetting it's you know who should really be upset is Mike and Ori who's like already coaching for his job in the season at training camp as he even started yet that thing at that

50:18contract is an embarrassment and the Blazers should be embarrassed then they probably aren't but some people there are and and and and that's the thing that we're talking about here over the long term how much will that impact that team and the people whose job it is to be the stewards of the organization and that means Joe Kroen and had to make statements because his two-way contract players didn't travel in the playoffs that is a unnecessary distraction um and a league that you know distractions are excuses but whatever like you don't need it and all of a sudden that's what you do when you're back in the playoffs for the first time imagine imagine checking into a hotel in some random Western conference city you get there earlier flight lands early no traffic huh that's gets to the hotel it's noon let's see if my room's ready yeah I might have to hang out in the lobby for a bit and you just see a bunch of tall dudes hanging out in the lobby waiting for a bus that's not going to leave for four hours to go to the game you're like what what's going on

51:20here is this an NBA team sitting in the lobby instead of getting late checkout so you can be in their room it's like when the Denver Broncos were on Homer Simpson's front yard when you got gifted the Denver Broncos by Hank Scorpio like what is this team doing here that's what we're dealing with you could be a random person like oh the trailblazers are here they're just killing time man we got the Simpsons and mascot's is most on brand Zach pod and Dylan Cardwell don't forget Dylan Cardwell Dylan Cardwell too um who might come up again who knows so you're just you're like is it is it what else besides the owner which I agree is shameful and it's going to constrain me and it's going to be super annoying and he's going to yell at me a lot about whatever what about the talent um yeah what what's your take on the sort of state of the team who's going to be here long term what questions do you have etc they have a lot to figure out man I mean the dude who's got the biggest long term number on that team is shade and shark sharks injured I don't think he's happy

52:24and I don't think he's in a position to really do a whole lot um like even when it comes back like what does that team look like you got Denny I mean that renegotiation is going to be fascinating um you have just a lot to sort out uh scoot is a guy you drafted high and again um I don't think he's getting extended he's I don't think he's happy like you have a lot of those things going on the culture of your team is that stake in a lot of ways in this next year like Dame is back but Dame is also you know this next year will inform what Dame wants to do you know you can you can be a free agent in 2027 I forgot that before I started looking at their contracts again that he has a plan option for 2728 and he's 36 years old man he has a no trade clause because that's right they were yeah man like I there's just there's there's a lot of variables and there's not a lot of

53:29things that make you feel good that's that's that's my thing and the variables are on the court as well I mentioned that they play really good basketball especially in the last quarter of the season they earn their playoff spot they very much earn it they knock the clippers into a spot they took over the sun spot they even found a way to win a playoff game in in in San Antonio like how much can you think they're fell on his head but sure yeah I mean they also had double digit leads in game three and four before you know going on to get gentlemen swept so how much does that carry over how much how do you assess these roles and again I don't know if the coach is going to be in a long term and the front you might be the coach law you might be the coach of the blazers next year man are you I want to work with who Jenner I will say that who Jenner's awesome that's a great call but you know they they lost they lost my god micha' mitz you know we work with micha' mitz for

54:31good while you know that's what you're talking about we're talking about long-term and everything that has to do with what makes you feel good about a team in terms of you know the stability parts of things I need to see any reason to think that anything blazers related will be stable head coach front office star player and the supporting players the market itself I don't feel great about it and yet we found two teams at least we did to correct polo team so so my part of my blazers optimism like I get all the questions about the roster we've done it to death the jaw fit and all that I'm not even I'm not even factoring jama ran in to my long-term prognosis about the blazers great if it works out I'm not I can't sit here and expect it to right I'm not even like I'm not even factoring scoot in I have hope for scoot I think scoot's pretty good I he's just been so snake

55:34bitten by injuries and like he just can't nail down the starting spot then there's a million guards there's something there but I do think we have enough information even as a scoot optimist I don't think this something there is ever going to be commensurate with where you took him in the draft and at number three he like he might end up being a really good bench player like and I bet by that I mean like a 25 minute a game core bench player or a fourth or fifth starter on the optimistic and I think star is getting a little distant I'm a believer in clinging I think clinging is legit good and the increased range and sort of dexterity on offense he showed last year was super intriguing Kamara's good obviously obvious good and then I just like to pick I'll tell you this though like when you start projecting things long-term Yang Han sends $7.5 million dollar team option in 28 29 is going to be an interesting little piece of business if you doesn't show some development in the in the intervening period but anyway so we have two teams left you get the sixth pick and you get to pick between the pelicans and the kings as the team you

56:38would most like to run for the next five years yeah that's a tough one isn't it tough one yeah I know you don't think it is but New Orleans is the team I'm going to go with and so we have the same we might as well just draft them both right now because I had New Orleans six Sacramento seven and I didn't really think that hard about it yeah yeah like long-term and I'm not going to get into the team business part of things that's above my yeah um that's I'm out of my depth there we're to be honest with you I'm just going to look at the basketball team obviously what happened in the drafts in 2025 was not encouraging and in terms of your trust in the Joe Duma or Troy Weaver front office but you know what man like I think you got two people there who are going to let their coach work I think they know that they are probably at the end of life stage as far as Zion

57:45women since 10 year there it's either going to work really well this year or it's you know probably but it's it's wild to think that he's going to be in his eighth season there and he's got one year left on his DL after this one I think that it's you know this is I'm intrigued to see what happens this year and in long term I don't think they have a lot of messy contracts I think that that kind of helps they have a me see contract but not a messy contract yeah I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm at that they do you have that they have Jordan pool um and Jordan is not in my rotation right now um but the good thing with Jordan is that he's an expiring so I can see that going a number of different ways the point being it doesn't really impact you long term I think there are avenues for this team to clean things up long term they need to maybe not be so reckless with their with their you know

58:49pick situations but I think they might have learned a lesson in 2025 so um that's the that's the kind of hope for New Orleans they're not committed to a whole heck of a lot like the guys that they are are worth it like herb tray like those guys have value both for the team that you're playing for as well as if you ever wanted to decide to move one like everyone in lead would want a player like those guys especially for the numbers that they're making own their teams so um yeah they're there they're very very very very very strong like uh I mean like the tray Murphy thing that's that's been talked about a lot uh does he want to be there does he not want to be there where would he be how wide would his market be very wide same with herb Jones I like fears and queen I like fears a lot I think fears had to kind of an underrated or what he sees in inefficient like most young guards are but he's got something to his game he's got a vision he's got uh he does things just a little bit differently in terms of his rhythm and his cadence and I just love his fearlessness I think

59:50queen is going to be a really good offensive player that's like even if you sell off both Murphy and herb Jones and I'm not sure they will or should do that I've still got those two guys I get the best of it this one draft this this coming draft I get the best of my pick or the bucks pick just in case that flips Atlanta gets the other one the bucks get neither somehow um now the Zion question is also tied to the Dijonthay Murray question Dijonthay Murray has a player option 31 million for 27 28 that's the same year Zion's contract expires you know on the one hand you cannot let those two guys walk without getting any assets in return I'm not sure what assets you could get for either of them especially given Zion's health record should note he was as durable more durable than he's ever been last year played a ton of games and ton of consecutive games um I don't but I still don't know how much trade value either has but I can't let him walk for nothing but if I bring him back at big money my risk is I'm now paying them into parts of their career at salary

1:00:56amounts that maybe I didn't want to and I'm my cap flexibility kind of goes out the window if both of those guys are on one and not the other I can get to decent amounts of room and and major room if I make some other moves both I can't but I do I do like fears and queen is sort of like cornerstones probably a little strong but um interesting guys to have around I just don't know I don't even know what you do with Zion and at this point like I just I don't I didn't know how to project him at all I don't know what their plan is they've kind of stiff armed any trade discussion but I'm not sure I think teams probably need another year of him playing to be like oh yeah we'll give you a lot of real stuff for Zion but maybe I'm wrong I don't know yeah um I will I want I want Zion to have the kind of season where you know like we talked about Luca and his fitness

1:01:57Zion made a commitment to fitness last year that actually mattered it actually stuck I mean he got I think one hamstring injury or whatever but evident that like you said like he stayed on the floor that team and I know we're not talking about just you know this is another discussion but that team has so many mouths to feed you know like who will they start a center they were starting erred Jones a center last year um you know like if you start queen if you start Zion did John say his point guard tray actually is way better when he doesn't have to dribble you know like well that's your point there were there were there was a small stretchway to end of the season where they were like let's try Zion at the three with me see and queen together because we need some rim protections like that doesn't seem sustainable um yeah like that's that's though there's a lot there just to just suggest what will happen with Zion if he plays on another team because there's the expectations for New Orleans is caps somewhere I think Derek queen was picked honestly if we're

1:03:01just we're just going to be blunt about it those who are duplicative in ways that suggest that you see what you can get for Zion and move forward with with with with queen and figure out how to for how to how to get guys who can defend because you know queen is not anchoring in defense right all all of these moves you're we're talking about Zion selling one of tray or herb Jones off for the to the highest bidder on the trade market uh to John this future underneath that is the reality that tanking is not a fail safe for me anymore the way it used to be so where am I going in that sense what is my market and my ownership going to tolerate is it where is it going to go the other way are they suddenly begin to go even become buyers somehow to sort of stay afloat I don't know but I know that like this team going 15 and 67 in two years because they've traded or whatever it is they're not going to be that bad because queens and fear queen and fear queens and fear queen and fears are are are very

1:04:01good rising on players but you get what I'm saying yes and the same applies to the Sacramento kings who came in last in our rankings only have one extra first round pick um coming into them in the next six or seven years and it's it's a it's a good take its in Minnesota unprotected 2031 pick and they have all their own picks and swaps and stuff like that but they also you know again this is the world of the the relegation zone and you know I like Maxine Ray know a lot I had him first team all rookie is he a long-term starter I don't know neat Clifford is a clever clever player just herky jerky a rhythmic staccato kind of game I like his feel I like his roundinus see a starter or is he a seventh guy I don't know a cuff obviously he's going to be handed the keys he's going to put up numbers I like him I don't I don't know if I love him um I just don't it's it's a tough they have as much cap room as they want for whatever that's worth it historically not much it's historically

1:05:01meant overpaying um guys who you know didn't have as deep of a market as they wanted uh I just it's it's been since 2004 that they want to play off series and it's it's a long long road ahead yeah and and with that um I think a guy likes a bonus is just as interesting to me as as as Zion is in the warland um that that contract is prohibitive think if you're a good team like a really good we're going to do something in the playoffs type of team I think your concern is what kind of player is a bonus in that setting do you give up assets to have that player take the space on your cap um even for a year or two and that I feel like is limiting on you know he's he's a very good player he's going to reestablish himself this year but what does that mean and what is the value of that um the one trade idea I had was what if you swap subonus and Zion

1:06:12oh that's interesting that that that's the one I've got I'm not the biggest you know we we're ready us man we we did these we did these things uh me being an editor remind you so very very behind the scenes but the whole trades you'd like to see and I'm like I don't want to see these trades but Kevin Kevin Peltin would Kevin Peltin would come out with like this 14 months straw to be like man that is like it's a piece of art I could I didn't know I didn't be roped in this team because they have cap room and you're giving them a second like god damn KP and and that's why KP is doing what he's doing now and we're sitting down to our god Kevin Peltin that's that that's what um that's the one that I kicked around right because they're very similar in some ways they're bigs they're left handed you have to adjust them over the course of the game they'd like to play bully ball off as dions brand of bully ball is is a whole lot more considering his

1:07:13$285 pounds with that kind of handle but subonus is a big skilled player right um who is not as much of a liability outside the paint he's a reluctant shooter not necessarily a poor one like would those two teams be interested in flipping things we know sacrameno who has not just specs you may not but Dylan Cardwell they do not have a dirt of center options right so you know you put Zion there and let things for themselves out I think he can marry could be a three he's a three or four right now he's a four him and beyond your area pretty much interchangeable I have for pelicans yeah pelicans would just have you know they already know like I said what does it look like between Zion and and and and they're playing together they can be duplicative you'd have similar issues but at least they're different it's a different kind of fit um and so that's my own I'm not the best at trade ideas Zach I think that's your will help more than mine well

1:08:16I'm pretty good I'm not great but I'm pretty good I have 10 teams as on my subonus fake trade list and they're all incredibly unlikely and I think first of all you said one thing that's important a year ago right now part of the issue with trading subonus was if I'm the kings I need somebody to play center so I need to get a center back in this trade and that limited the market right away I'm not such a believer in vaccine right now that like that question's been answered for me but I'm also like a little bit less concerned about it than I used to be but look 45 million this year 49 million next year is going to want an extension or to get paid as soon as he's on a new team doesn't you know you mentioned New Orleans they weren't really on my list because the queen subonus thing is like kind of funky and interesting is a double center look for a team that in a previous universe had to mark his cousin at the anti-davis but if I'm going to have two centers and no rim protection I just don't want two centers then if like if my double center look offers no

1:09:17defensive upside and like limited perimeter shooting I don't like it so here are my teams that I listen are you ready ready Phoenix I don't I don't think so right now they've got the midsize contracts they can cobble together their center position is like Mark Williams, Mala watch, a Gidoro I think they're kind of want to see what Mala watch is and they just resign Mark Williams I don't see it right now Chicago we talked about them as a place that has sort of a whole long term at center that's too soon too much too soon for the bulls particularly like again another shaky perimeter shooter with Gidey and Buzelis who's gonna be a good shooter I think and Caleb Wilson who was an amazing shooter out of nowhere in summer league we'll see if that's real I don't I don't see it Charlotte we know they talked right and I don't think the price was ever close to what Charlotte will be willing to pay Diabate plus Calkbrenner plus a little bit of Steinbach and Naz Reid is that all a long term answer at center obviously Musa Diabate guest on this podcast last year was

1:10:20a revelation doesn't seem likely Orlando Orlando is on here is like if this season doesn't go well for Orlando is the major shake up swap one of their core players I'm not even going to say who I don't know for subonus and when do card or junior goes to Sacramento it's just like I we got to shake things Portland was my favorite subonus team a year to 18 months ago I've heard he feels good about that market I know he had fans in that front office I just think Klingon got good enough soon enough that that's out Atlanta has to be considered a wildcard for pretty much anything I think they're sitting biting their time with assets with a good team hoping the rest of the Eastern Conference in their frenzy to make the finals spends all their assets and they're the last team standing a year from now or something like that and I don't love the subonus Jalen Johnson fit Dallas they you know they've got some center options they need to sort out first golden state

1:11:24kind of fits the curry handoff moving motion read and react I just don't know like the salary is so high on my trading Jimmy Butler and my trading like Jalen plus porzingus and am I using any of my picks that I'm hoarding I don't know and then lastly law do your hometown LA Clippers do they want to just win more games and Neater Houses injured and Brooke Lopez is hanging around and what do they have they have Isaiah Jackson like I don't know how many picks they're going to have if any once all this comes comes once the co ideal is finished and the penalty becomes in force I don't think that's it I just don't know contractually it's hard to get there but you know you can do anger on ingram for subonus I mean is there anything there that's the biggest thing he makes so much and it's so much money for that kind of a player so it's like you know you have to match salaries to make these trades work and ingram is ingram is the same length about seven six million

1:12:31dollars cheaper this year seven million next year it's an interesting idea yeah it's interesting but assuming cranneting remains a member of the LA Clippers yeah there's that part too like I just there's just not enough there and you know previously I could say things like yeah I don't think debonus bonus is that kind of player for the team but I mean the people who were running the team and having opinions on certain players are currently not in position to do anything right now so yeah that has to be a factor too like the Clippers loved playing against someone as subonus for years you know that's typically not the kind of player that you try and bring into your team you know the kind of player that you took advantage of for years like the Clippers yeah this is what love playing against debonus bonus like I don't yeah I don't see

1:13:33them treating everything they got to get to get to that contract I don't think it would be everything they've got and that's the reality that the things are gonna work with you is like I just don't think there's gonna be a deal that knocks their socks off and I think they need to realize that they probably do I think subonus and his people need to realize that because it's gonna make it harder for him to get out of Sacramento. Long Murray are you still doing your epitome games have you been doing that and I've missed it it's one of my favorite little things that you did yeah that is done that is I gotta go back and watch them yeah I did the whole 2026 series across august I'm I'm repopulating just 30 days in September and I'm starting to put my rotation charts out every day today's a tenth day of September so I don't know this is why I have you on because you don't just cover the Clippers like you literally do a YouTube video on here is the most representative game from how this team played last year plus I'm gonna project them this year it's like all 30 teams are up here rattling around your brain yeah so that that's a part of the

1:14:38season where it's like I know that there's dead space there's 1,230 games in the regular season okay it it it's exciting for like a week or two and then things can kind of get a little blurry in there but when we have no games this is when I look back and it's like okay I want to take a picture of what this used to look like because it's going to change when we get preseason games early regular season games we're going to get a new season um so I'm glad that you noticed that and yeah it's a nice little passion project for me in the dead of the y'all season there you go Lamar we all need passion projects like drafting the seven teams who haven't won a playoff series in the 2020s uh read all his coverage in the athletic especially since he's covering the team that's at the center of uh shit storm right now in the NBA that doesn't seem to end anytime soon Lamarie thank you so much for your time and now we're gonna bring in Luke Epplin special guess you just wrote a great book about Moses and the doctor about the 80s the ABA the 76

1:15:40just talked to Luke Lamarie you're the best thank you bud thank you Zach all right let's bring on a special guest another in the series of Zach Redson books this summer over vacation Luke Epplin who has written a book about baseball is that essay is all over the place and prestige it's outlets that you know the New Yorker the Atlantic wrote this book right here on the 76ers of the 1980s Moses and the doctor two men one championship and the birth of modern basketball about the 1983 faux faux faux Philadelphia 76ers but more broadly about I think a team that often gets overlooked sandwiched between the Lakers championships and the Celtics championships and pre-Jordan championships in the 80s and two players with very unusual journeys uniting on that team and I just the book is really good it's if you don't know a lot about Moses Malone or Dr. J or the Sixers or the ABA it's like all a great history book full of fun anecdotes all in one what made you what made you choose this subject matter for a book which by the way you must have

1:16:44been delighted that LeBron James and Jalen Brown are now on the 76ers the year you published this book because it's been 43 years since this championship and boy is this city starving for something it's a real great coincidence I only wish my book would have come out like in November now because it's it's it's even more relevant than ever I think the sobron tiny is very equivalent to Moses Malone signing thanks for having me on Zach as as terms of how I came came to this subject my first book was called R team it was about the second black player to come in the major league baseball that is of course Larry Dobie he joins the Cleveland Indians what I loved about that book was this idea two leagues that were sort of running parallel to each other and they were developing different styles of plays would have been the major leagues and the Negro leagues and different ways of sort of approaching the game different ideologies all that sort of stuff my favorite sport is basketball and I wanted to see if there was any sort of equivalent of course there's no there's no real equivalent to the Negro leagues but what I hit upon was the NBA and the American Basketball Association

1:17:45the ABA and how they developed about 10 years in parallel to each other they had different styles of play different ways of approaching things and what I really was interested in was what happens when the streams cross how does it change you know the league how does it change basketball how does it change the way people look at it I approached things through character based instead of plot based and so I needed somebody to front the story and I mean who better to front at the Julia serving he in his very look and the way he played he was the ABA and so that's where I started with him did you talk to him did he sit down with you for the book or no he did yeah he was pretty nice about it he's I mean one of the main sort of points of the book is that he is sort of the foremost ambassador of basketball at that time he's really sort of booing a league that is mired in drug and image problems and he's going out of his way to talk to as many people as possible and it still seems like that pulls for him he was not that difficult to get hold of. Moses Malone obviously passed away before did you have did you get to interview him just like separately when he was younger or is

1:18:46it all posthumous? No and I was nervous of taking Moses Malone on his let's say this sort of co-protagonist of the story because the only thing that I really knew about Moses he was he was a little bit before my time when I started watching was that he never said anything and that he didn't talk very much and I was like how is he going to come to the forefront but what I learned about Moses is that when he did talk he made it count he didn't waste a lot of words with platitudes that authors generally talk about he was to the point he said things of substance and he was really funny I hope that this book gets across his humor because he could be he could sort of say a sly line in there that would just have me cracking up while I was reading the newspaper archives. And yeah he's obviously knowing this perhaps the greatest rebounder and certainly the greatest offensive rebounder in the history of the NBA and uh Darrell Dawkins has a quote about him where he says it's like trying to box out an octopus I really like that one they talking the book about how

1:19:47he shoots balls on the way up which people do still now like on the way up in their jumps to try to fool shop lockers but he did it not only to fool shop lockers but because he knew his best chance of scoring was just going for a rebound jumping for you before his defender could jump for rebound. Yeah he's he's one of the great like when he passed away there was so much sort of remembrance of hate like this guy is one of the great forgotten soup not forgotten but overlooked like three time MVP iconic figure about the ABA briefly an NBA in multiple cities like played for nine teams Charles Barkley speaks so lovingly about him as a mentor during his years uh in Philadelphia and I think it's just great to put kind of a shine on what he meant to leave but what was cool about this is like the framing of the book is and I didn't really think of it I hadn't conceived of the the 83 Sixers in this way it's sort of like validation for Dr. J who has multiple ABA titles but comes to Philly and they right away lose the 1977 finals to the Blazers which is viewed kind of

1:20:51and you're telling as a referendum on the NBA versus the ABA and also in a dialogue that has some pretty blatant racial overtones too and in people celebrating the Sixers losing that series then they lose the 80 finals and the 82 finals to the Lakers they blow a 3-1 lead in 81 to the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals so it's validation for Dr. J for the Sixers but I thought this was a really cool conceit kind of validation for the ABA as a whole like not that the league really needed it certainly not now given the Pacers the Spurs all the books that have been written but then like a central ABA draft pick right out of high school in Moses Malone Seminole moment and the ABA's like franchise player Dr. J win in the NBA in the year of the Lakers and the Celts I had never really thought of the Sixers as like an ABA redemption project but they are it's really interesting so when the league's merge Julius Irving holds up for more money

1:21:51he doesn't get it from the nets they have to immediately send him to the Sixers who are fronted by a guy named the name of George McGinnis who had been an MVP in the ABA he'd been a champion in the ABA and because of that sort of pairing together in the way that like it was almost like a mercenary play on Julius Irving's part the Sixers gained this reputation of being a sort of renegade team full of rebels and things like that and eventually if you sort of read the coverage carefully it is very much the way that NBA show been a thought of the ABA that this was a league that was a little bit outside of the bounds of fundamentalist basketball and whenever Irving plays Bill Walton's Blazers it's almost like a morality play between the sort of ABA playground inspired style of basketball versus this sort of top down coach Oriented everybody sharing the ball style that Dr. Jackson being on fundamentally sound Bill Walton yeah and so Irving himself never quite

1:22:56shakes off that odor of the ABA as he's going through the next seven years the Sixers at that time win more games from 1976 to 1983 than any other franchise both in the regular season and in the playoffs they are the elite team but they just can't get over that hump and it becomes almost a point where it's not only about Irving's legacy it is about the ABA that Irving stands for and he never goes without being on a team without at least two other ABA superstars whenever McGinnis leaves you have Bobby Jones coming on you have Coldwell Jones there and then of course Coldwell Jones leaves and Moses Malone comes on and so really through that whole period he is the stand in for the ABA and I think it's fitting that when he plays the Lakers in 1983 there is nobody on that Lakers roster who played even a minute in the ABA and so it really is the last stand in 1983 of the ABA versus the NBA and it's a it's a narrative that we kind of lose track of because now we just think of it as

1:23:59the Irving Malone team but if you look at it back then the way people are talking about it the Sixers really are standing in for that league. Well it's um I didn't even forgot like Bobby Jones becomes a defensive stopper for the Sixers a glue guy six man a year though a year they win the title. I had forgotten that he and Dr. J played against each other when Bobby Jones was a nugget in the last ABA finals. I thought that was like a cool a cool little nugget and speaking of the Lakers Lakers Sixers they play each other in the finals what three times in this in this spand of this book and boy is it fun to go back and reread how much Kareem absolutely hated playing against Moses Malone who I believe in the 83 finals has more offensive rebounds by himself than the entire Lakers team has in the series or some crazy stat like that and everyone knows the story. This is why books like this are so great because your brain can't hold all this information you can only absorb so much so like everyone knows the story about Paul Westhead and the Lakers and Magic being unhappy with the

1:25:02way they were running their offense through Kareem and playing slow you have an anecdote in this book that either I had never heard or I had forgotten that players on the Lakers had match books on which I guess they wrote trade Kareem and they would pass them around the locker room maybe ingest maybe half ingest maybe seriously in some cases I had never heard that before that in newspaper articles or did someone tell you that I can't remember how you got that it wasn't a newspaper articles it was it was told to me by Steve Springer and Reese and confirmed by Scott Osler they were both writers in Los Angeles at that time and I think that it was meant ingest but it was also kind of almost like a like a club that younger Lakers players performed like Magic Johnson and Michael Cooper and while they were like at airports they would flash these things at each other and it would say trade Kareem on them as as in like yeah this is this is our ideology that we're going to try to to implement here um it's funny you mentioned George McGinnis who's an ABA legend uh Indiana Pacers ABA legend among other things he comes to Philadelphia plays with Dr. J and they do

1:26:07not mesh at all it's two ball dominant guys with shaky jumpers and just like it would be today like the offense gets a little bogged down there's an ego struggle but the quotes in the book are just a reminder that man it used to just be a free for all in the media like players would just say whatever the hell they wanted and it was unbelievable so I'm just going to read some of my favorite ones from the books Dr. George McGinnis said of Dr. J when there are teammates in Philly I always felt I never got my due in the ABA I was always Julius's league so does this become Julius's team imagine if Dwayne Wade had said that about LeBron or something when LeBron came to the Sixers then there's all this stuff about how everyone on the Sixers teams in the late 70s is so unhappy that the team actually has to find people for publicly demanding trades in the newspaper and Dr. J's wife gets involved and says to what the New York Times I think no one here respects Jean Shoe the Sixers coach how many guys want to win one for Shoe not one and sometimes not even

1:27:09for themselves imagine if a player's spouse came out and said that today there's more and I'm sure that can I can I have no rush go go yeah turquoise Irving who is Irving's wife not oh she didn't say that she wrote that that is a ghost written article that she published in the New York Times and it was ghost written I believe by the writer that Julius Irving eventually sires a child with Samantha Stevenson and so it's just the this sort of level of dysfunction on the on that Sixers team is off the charts by the way I had forgotten that Alexander Stevenson the tennis players mom was also a sports reporter like that's like we don't need to get too into it but that's like Roussini one Roussini Raible 1.0 is kind of cold in your book and you don't shy away by the way from the various marital issues and foibles of both Moses Malone and Dr. J in fact will 20,000 women thing is wildly famous you have a line in the book they're Irving openly talked about I don't know exactly where that for a brief a some period of his career on the nets in New York he experimented

1:28:15that's the word you use with sweeping with a different woman every night where did that come from and comes from Dr. J himself he is okay I'm gonna read some more they would never say this now kind of stuff 19 I think it's the 19 it's a 1977 Eastern conference finals when the rockets were in the Eastern conference in the NBA between the 76ers and the rockets so they actually face each other Moses Malone's on the rockets after being shoved like tossed around the league as if he were no good several different he's on five teams in a two-year span and Steve mix who's a Philadelphia forward says this of Moses Malone well alone doesn't play anybody he only concentrates on rebounds we've gone at him a lot and we've been successful he's such a bad defensive player we're moving everything through him he's terrible now you get versions of that like people have talked about certain NBA players is like we're targeting him on defense and then Moses Malone responds after

1:29:16a good game Steve makes you don't know what he's talking about mix probably had something to drink when he said that how does he know the defense he be on the bench that's like the what these guys would say way back when was was can I mention that I I of course talk to Steve mix for this book and I read him I read him that quote and and I said what were you thinking whenever you said that and he says exactly what I meant Moses wasn't that good if it did pencil player so I think you'd say it again if given the chance and you and you have in the 80 81 finals when the Celtics are playing Moses Malone's rockets 80 81 rockets of the one of the only maybe the only sub five under team ever to make the NBA finals they were 40 and 42 he says he could beat the Celtics the mighty Boston Celtics with Larry bird me and four guys off the street and say in in Petersburg Virginia where he's from could beat the Celtics then the Celtics get incensed when they read the quote in the paper it's in the paper and beat the rockets and he says after the game yeah there's still chumps like Moses like Moses was it all time quote guy oh yeah he was and I mean that's the thing

1:30:19everybody says oh he's he's the silent guy but I think that one of the sort of things that I show in that book is that even though Irving probably talked more than any superstar at that time just because of all the interviews he gave Moses is no is better known for things he said than Irving is it like if you look at the foe foe foe quote or the I could beat the Celtics on my own with four guys from my hometown Moses actually had better quotes than Irving did it was it was easy to find quotes from Irving talking it was harder to find quotes from Irving actually saying anything well and go into I either again had forgotten this or never knew the origin of his nickname the doctor is is kind of from that can you tell readers if I don't want to spoil that part of the book but it's at the beginning about how he got his nickname well he he knew he knew somebody that that friend in high school he used to play basketball with and and they they were best buddies and Irving was just such a diplomatic you know kind of even spoken person that that they he would call him the doctor at not necessarily in a in a positive way but in in a way

1:31:23that it was like he was cerebral or intellectual or or something like that an Irving nickname that guy the professor and so yeah it wasn't that he was like operating on the court it was more about his demeanor is there anyone you didn't anyone alive who you tried to get for this book that you were not able to get here like damn I wish I I'm sure there's several like on Brett Larry bird is really hard to get I'm like is there anyone like that and and obvious yeah got the obvious you know bird magic they they they're people just laugh at you whenever you whenever you try to talk to them but I would say Maurice cheeks I tried so many different ways to get Maurice cheeks to talk I went through the Chicago bowls where he was working I went through the mail I went through the phone I went through email I tried everything and every time he was very nice about it I even talked to him he just said I I don't do this and of course that I as you know Andrew Tony has not given an interview since he retired at least not one on the record and so you know he wasn't about to start with this book

1:32:27well he's body I'm glad you mentioned him because you tell his story in this book how much he changed the sixers I believe he's a rookie in 81 and they made the conference finals right away against Boston obviously people know the nickname the Boston Strangler one of the great nicknames in NBA history is body falls apart pretty fast there's some arguments as to why and how and how severe it actually was and he kind of Peters out but to hear the opposing players Robert Parrish in particular talk about Andrew Tony it's like they're talking about Michael Jordan like he wasn't that good there's only one Michael Jordan but Robert Parrish has a quote I'm paraphrasing it you probably know it by Harbors like you know there are some guys you can guard and then there's like Andrew Tony whatever we game plan for it's out the window immediately like did we just have no answer for this guy yeah yeah he you know it's interesting I came to realize two things when I was doing this book because I did talk to a lot of teammates and in opposing players and I would ask them two different questions one give me your best Andrew Tony story and everybody had one and

1:33:29generally it wasn't about his personality because I think that he was pretty serious and quiet behind the scenes it was about him on the court just like sadly enough to Michael Cooper the greatest defensive player of his generation and just being like say aren't you supposed to be the best defensive player and like just absolutely refusing to back down to anyone and then I would say give me your best Darryl Dawkins story and that was something that happened off the court and most of those could not be printed and so yeah those two were inserted the characters of the book I will say that getting to Tony like it's tough it's I think I think a lot of people have maybe because of the potential that went unfulfilled have maybe exaggerated what he was actually like so it was a little bit tough to get to the heart of him I'd say the best interview I did with him was his college coach I don't think a lot of people talk to his name is Bobby Peshall and it was just he didn't have a

1:34:31lot to say beyond just the fact that Andrew Tony was at the gym at six in the morning and left at 11 o'clock at night it was just he he shot shot shot shot shot the guy you couldn't get him out of the gym he that's just what he he was doing speaking of Darryl Dawkins I mean I just you know love him, hate him, lament his loss of potential or unfulfilled potential he is one of the all-time great characters in the history of professional basketball and I just to give people a taste if people don't know they know about he's broken backboards and all that stuff they might not remember planet love tron which is a planet that he claimed to be from I had forgotten about his van do you want to talk about what was the name of his van written on it I believe was it love I can't remember now I think it was like get getting it or someone that's right that's right again the van yeah yeah then he he moved planets to from love tron to chocolate paradise and he was the chocolate thunder with a queen called juicy lucy this is a whole universe that Darryl Dawkins made up that

1:35:35didn't exist and then he named his dunks in your face disgrace turbo saxophone delight and then one of his backboard breaking ones is over a guy named Bill robozy and I think the chocolate fund thunder fly and robozyne cry and teeth shaking glass breaking rump roasting bun toasting wham bam glass breaker I am jam this was written in a newspaper by a columnist that like Darryl Dawkins kind of ghost wrote columns with friend blindberry back like this is a thing that happened and there's a version of it now with like the players tribune or the as like the diaries that mark spears does they're nothing like this though they're they're they're so like everything is so anodine and watered down now this is like unfiltered Darryl Dawkins in the mainstream newspaper so to give some context of this there used to be there used to be a a Phil Delphi weekly that decided that they wanted each of the major sports hockey basketball baseball football they wanted a superstar to write

1:36:35a weekly column for for them and they chose like you know Mike Schmitts and Bobby Clark and all these other big names Julia Serving turned it down and so they chose Darryl Dawkins and if you read the other columnist from like Mike Schmitt or something like that they're very anodine like we played the Cardinals today was tough boy is is Ozzy Smith amazing do you read Darryl Dawkins he sat down with a ghost writer named friend blindberry and they would huddle together at the practice court and Dawkins would just go off on to some science fiction like tangent about being from the planet named love tron and having these sort of women by his side and like ruling this universe and coming down to earth to to play basketball it's just wild stuff and it is unlike anything that that you can imagine a player doing today and Dawkins is just kind of wonderful at creating a persona for himself that you know attracts enough attention that he can get a weedies advertisement

1:37:38it all kind of comes to an end whenever a guy named Harold cat spies the 76ers and recognizes that Dawkins has never been an all star never been on the top 10 and rebounding and is actually better known for his off court antics than his on court you know feats and it really is necessary to offload him for the sixers to take that final step well you can be at the start you can you you have it sort of in your head a general idea that Moses to the sixers in the some off season of 1982 going at 82 83 might end up being similar to LeBron to the sixers 43 years later I kind of get what you mean now that I've read the book and kind of refresh my memory but spell that out for people so basically the sixers are at this point where they've they've gone through let's say call it a process where they they they start out with the team with a bunch of superstars and a bunch of sort of parts that don't go together it doesn't work they shed all those parts

1:38:40they bring in new people like Tony Bobby Jones and Maurice Cheeks and they're trying to win with that sort of thing it doesn't work either and it looks like you're at the end of the line Julia serving one of the one of the I would say the best scene that that I came across in the book and it's only really a small paragraph of the archives is that after the 1982 NBA finals when the sixers lose the lakers Julia serving breaks down in cries in the locker room and he is so cool and collected that it shocked the sixers so much that they closed down the locker room they didn't want anybody to see it they didn't want any sort of photographs going on about that and Irving kind of recognized that that was it that was the end this whole sort of process that they've been going through it's going to end in heartbreak and it isn't until this very unexpected signing of Moses Malone teaming together the last two MVP's on this team that Irving gets his second life and if you look at the sixers now they've gone through this long process with joe l and b they had been

1:39:43Simmons they get sort of heartbroken by the Toronto Raptors they you know add some new people like tyris maxi and vj edgecom it still doesn't look like it's going to be enough and then when this off season they get jalen brown and the brown james it is an equivalent of if they article this off I guess you'd have to put you know in bead in the same chair as julio serving but it could be this unexpected resurgence of the of the sixers just when it seems like they're dead and i think that's one of the reasons why moses malone is just again there's like a very it's it's less than ten guys who have won three mvps and and a finals mvp as well in eighty three he is the finals mvp i think one of the reasons why he's just not remembered in that group as much as he should be is a his game was kind of workman like like it wasn't glamorous it wasn't pretty he would have told you that right away and he one of the great things about him in this book is he's just he comes off he he says over and over again i'm just here to work i work and i work and i work and people who want to come see me play they should know that i'm going to play super hard every

1:40:47single night but also in in less than two years he goes from the utas stars of the a b a who fold he goes to the st. Louis spirits of the a b a in the dispersal draft because another team the hawks are the lana team stupidly trades their dispersal draft no he goes to i'm sorry he goes to the st. Louis spirits then he goes with the a b a folds he goes to portland because it lana stupidly trades their draft picked to portland portland joct or jack ramsey just doesn't like him trades him almost immediately to the buffalo braze a k a the future clippers buffalo after barely even letting him see the floor trades him to the rockets and it's like boom boom boom boom boom he's on five teams in less than year after it's crazy that one of the all time great players was like passed around like damaged goods or something in the early part of it not even in his prime like the early part of his prime then he goes on and wins what two mvp's with the rockets takes him to the finals and then he's then the rocket's aside they don't want to resign him either yeah it's it's almost confusing and uh

1:41:50he's just um there's this sort of idea of moses malone on the rockets that he's a little bit limited and what he can do he's an amazing rebounder but maybe he he doesn't run very well maybe he doesn't make his teammates better um it's very mistaken i think that he's just kind of like surrounded by by players that uh that he almost has to drag into the playoffs year after year after year and even though whenever he gets traded to the sixorys he's only 27 he feels like he's a lot older than that and i think it is just the travel and the the sort of like you know bouncing around that he's had to do and then dragging a sub five hundred rockets team to the finals he sort of recognizes that if his career continues on that way it's he's going to get worn out by the time he's he's 30 and of course he goes to the sixorys and gets a new life but even then he bounces around at the end of his career too it's almost like he doesn't really have a home even though if you really

1:42:56sort of think about who moses malone is he's a very sort of home body person who is very comfortable around a very limited number of people and so you would think that he would just want to root himself in one place and stay there but instead out of all the people that have went three MVPs he's the one that gets shuffled around the moat does he have does he have a statue anywhere i know that the sixorys in their at their practice facility have like a line of statues like smaller statues leading up i don't know if he's one of them i'm a fieson the smaller one he's certainly not in the bigger one and you know the book i don't want to give away the end of the book but i guess i will he you know the the sixorys come to him right before he passes and asked if he if he wants to have his read his number retired and fill it off yet and he says no and they say why and he says well if you're going to retire my number then everybody should be up there and so he won't let them go through with it until they've stitched the names of every single person he played with in Philadelphia on to oh not just the eighty three team yeah every single every single person eighty four

1:43:59eighty five eighty six uh and so it's all up there on the rafters and that kind of you know i thought that personified really what he he was the teammate oh yeah i don't want to give away the rest of the book people just as a by NBA fans you need to have this book it's it's it's awesome it's fun to read it's full of anecdotes just to watch your appetite you're three things that just pop into my head is like stuff in the book uh a what if with dr j and pistol pit mayor of it potentially on the same team i had also forgotten like the last a b a all-star game is famous for the dunk contest between dr j and david Thompson what you get into i had forgotten that they tried the gimmick of defending a b a champions versus all stars from the rest of the teams in the a b a denver against or was it team with the best record i can't remember which one is it team with the best record and the best record plus it the mba all-star game happened to be in Denver it's the only time an all-star game was also a home game i a gimmick that like is the mba is trying every single possible gimmick to save the all-star game and they may have landed on one that works now uh with the world

1:44:59stuff that that's a fun one and just i if you're familiar at all with nineteen seventies any prept to pro kind of book you're gonna know that there's wild Moses Malone college recruitment stories there's even more wild Moses Malone college recruitment stories and i had even remembered or read about before in this book which is feel how many people junior view for this thing oh i don't i mean hundred or so i don't know and actually a lot of them did pass away lefty dry cell who was the the coach of merlin passes away um Moses is agent lee fentris uh is as all simers harrell cats passes away pat lians passes away it was it was the right time to write this book uh it's just chock full of good stuff uh luke eppelin it's been it's awesome talking to you i really enjoyed the book and i i can't recommend to highly enough it's it's a great it's a team there's certain teams that i've been yearning for like a deeper book that looks at them this is one of them i can talk about like late seventies early eighties spurs i think they need a book the hawks of like the mid seventies

1:46:01they need a book this is an essential book for any sports library luke eppelin thank you sir hey thanks sack all right that's it for today's episode thank you to law marie thank you to luke eppelin by his book thanks as always to mike billy and johnathan on production thanks you all for listening to and or watching the zacklow show we'll be back early next week we're back to two episodes a week the mda is right around the corner who knows what'll happen over the weekend see all next week twenty one are over and president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas starkisino or eighteen and over in president dc can tuck your y-ohm and gambling problem call one in hundred gambler or one eight hundred my reset call one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpg.org slash chat in canettica or is it md gambling help.org and marlin hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org or call eight hundred three two seven five oh five oh for twenty four seven support and Massachusetts or call one eight seven seven eight hope and why

1:47:04or text hope and why in new york for the Louisiana call one eight seven seven seven seven zero seven eight six seven