The New-Look Timberwolves With Jon Krawczynski and Five Big Questions!

0:00coming up on the Zacklow show. Start off your week with some NBA talk. We've got John Krasinski, the great John Krasinski from the athletic not from the office to talk. Minnesota Timberwolves Jonathan Kamingo was the big news at the end of last week. We get into his fit and just wow. They really have reinvented this team that made two straight conference finals. Obviously fell short of that last season. Lamello ball. Jonathan Krasinski. The great John Krasinski from the athletic not from the office to talk. All. Jonathan Kamingo. Cody Williams, kind of a sneaky low flyer. They're taking on him and what was otherwise a salary dump. What are the timber wolves? Where do they stack up in the Western Conference going into the season? And then Mo de Kielis here to zoom out a little bit. Some big questions with Mo. Our most exciting playoff races. Who has the best chance that cracking the top six in the west and sending one of the chalk teams down into the play and? And we start our awards preview roll out. with most improved player, we make a bunch of different picks for who could potentially win that.

1:01And we talk about some card games, some vacation stuff. That's all coming up on the Zack Low Show with John Krasinski and Molyty Kielhoop, you guys enjoy it. Welcome to the Zack Low Show. It's the last day of August training camp is around the corner. John Krasinski from the athletics here to talk to us about the big move that happened at the end of last week. Jonathan Kaminga, seldom has so much ink been spilled over someone who has accomplished so relatively little in the NBA has signed with the most recent player option in year two. This may be yet another pit stop penciled in as the starting power for the wolves who traded both of their power forwards. Julius Randall in a salary dump and Nas Reed in the Lamella Balltrade. I think that actually got all roped into one trade. So technically it's just they got both got traded in that and that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do a little bit of that. I'm going to do a little bit of that. I'm going to do a little bit of that. I'm going to do a little bit of that. I'm going to do a little bit of that.

2:01It's my turn. I'm going to fuel straight across the sand screen. I'm going to pull in. I'm going to see what we can do. I'm going to have a lifnowlower baking제. Such a great battling doing the soft driving. We're going to do a little bit of a mobility magic. Oh my god. I don't know that. But I haven't realized for a long long, ball handler, superstar guard, defensive anchor, and Jaden McDaniels, you know, sort of rounding out the starting five doing everything he does so well. But they have changed a lot about their team. It's exciting. I'm not sure what it amounts to in terms of actually challenging the best teams in the West. And I do wonder, and we can start here like, there's a line. There's like a balance between sometimes you do have to change even when things are working well because things grow stale or the league has kind of figured you out or you've clearly hit a ceiling.

3:01And sometimes there's too much change too fast when your identity kind of gets flipped on its head a little bit and you take some time to figure it out. Where have the wolves landed? Yeah, I think that what they have done is they clearly made a determination after losing to San Antonio in the second round, Zach, that they had taken that style of play to its logical conclusion. They were one of the first ones really kind of on board with the boy ball or big man ball when they went cat and go bear in the front court. Then the league kind of started to evolve with them in that respect. And then last year with with go bear and Randall, they took a step back from the year before from two straight Western Conference Finals runs and there's some injuries that were involved with that as well. But I think that when you look at the moves that they did make, it's clear that their messaging is we've got to change and adapt again. And so now they've gone from a team with an oversized front court with big guys everywhere

4:06to a sleeker, more explosive dynamic type of an approach. And they believe that their avenue for Zagging against San Antonio and Oklahoma City is, hey, let's get a little faster, let's shoot a little bit more, let's run in transition. And maybe that will help neutralize some of the advantages that this person thunder have against them. We'll see. But one thing that is for sure is that this is going to be an entirely different identity going into next season. And we'll see how long it takes for everyone to get on on board with that. These are, this is a different looking timber wolves team from what we have seen over the last three or four years without question. Well, moving on from Randall is fine. I mean, his career playoff numbers and it's up to 42 playoff games now for him. 18 points, seven and a half rebounds for assists, 41% shooting, 31% on threes, 46 and a half percent on twos. He's, I think, had five playoff runs and one of them has been good and four of them have

5:08been awful. And it's three versus one, but whatever it is. And last year was maybe the second awful list of his career, he had the one next hawk series, which is a disaster, but 16, seven and a half, 39% shooting, 24% on threes, 43 and a half on twos. That's 16.7, every bounce equal amount of assists and turnovers, just the disastrous playoff run for him last year. And like you said, the sort of just, the bulldozer had plowed, there's been bulldozed as much territory as they could. And it was time for a change. And the big change was Lamello ball. And now it's Caminga theoretically sliding into the starting five, some changes to their depth. This also involved the Josh Green flip for now Cody Williams, they waived in on concert. We'll talk about Cody Williams later. I think that's an interesting little flyer that they took. It's, it's going to be a very good team. I think, I've already talked about Lamello with you. I think the Lamello ant thing is going to work fine.

6:08I think this is exactly the kind of player ant needs. I think a change of scenery was needed for Lamello. And this is like a more, it's not that char that was in serious, but this is a team that's done serious stuff and the expectations for it are serious. There's some interesting defensive potential with this Caminga lineup. It's huge. It's a lot of protection for Lamello ball. And I think they're going to try to make their bones like defense transition, rebounding, play super fast. I just, I did two things that are sticking out to me as I kind of look at the team. I don't know if the Caminga go bear thing is going to work offensively. I think that's going to be really interesting. I mean, it'll work to some degree, right? But Caminga, Caminga's like a, like we're going to, I'm going to talk about shade and sharp a little bit later. They're very, they're very dissimilar players, but they're similar in the sense that they're second, third, fourth options who didn't play like that when they got into the NBA, but that's where they are in the NBA hierarchy on a good team.

7:11And they haven't, you know, four or five years into their career really developed the skills that that role really requires, like outside shooting, playmaking, defense, and shooting in particular, I think will be a challenge. And you look at the depth, like with with Deven Shenzhou out for, I don't probably the whole season. I don't know. You're coming off the bench with bones is back. I owe is a killer off the bench. That's great. I do wonder how he feels about now being not a starter again. And then after that, it's kind of a lot of question marks. Terrence Shannon Jr. should be involved. They love Baron J is a big step up in pressure for, for Baron J. Cody Williams might get a shot. Trey Lyles is here. It's going to be interesting. I don't quite know what to make of the team in terms of what it's ceiling is. Yeah, I would say that if we wanted, let's go way back in Timberwolves lore right now. No pun intended with war. No pun intended.

8:12Right, exactly. But when I think it all goes to all of this boils down to the Lomello acquisition and what that becomes. And if he is the playmaker extraordinaire, the point guard, the scoring point guard that they believe he can be that he was for a lot for Charlotte last year, I think everything just falls into place and they're really, really interesting and competitive. And I'll tell you that in, in this organization's history, this feels a little bit like when the wolves traded on draft night, Ray Allen for Stefan Marbury and to pair with Kevin Garnat in terms of they thought at that moment, we need dynamic point guard play to supplement are incredible two way force, you know, kind of power forward small 40s playing everywhere Kevin Garnat was. And from that point on to this, that one didn't work out, but from that point on to this,

9:16they have never had a point guard like this that plays this way that can connect people together while also getting his own shots. And so if they get premium optimized Lomello ball, then I think that this is a team that can win a lot of games. I like their depths, Zach, because I think that sneakily, you know, you add coming into the starting lineup. Now you don't have to really mess with Tarence Shannon Jr. at that four spot in the starting lineup. He can be in the, in the second unit and have the ball in his hands a lot more. And by the way, you know, this is we've talked about I've always been a believer in him every time you play good things happen. I know the coaches always nitpicked the Miss rotations, the whatever on defense, but like there's very clearly been something there with him. And when they finally unleashed him a little bit in the playoffs, like, oh my god, like this guy is just creating stuff out of nothing constantly. So I, I think he's ready to play like 20 minutes of game in the regular season.

10:18I agree. I think that this role for him will fit it because now he can have the ball in his hands a little more. He's not just standing in the corner waiting for things to happen with that starting unit. I think Dante even chenzo is going to be back at some point this year. We'll see what he is. Okay. Yeah, we'll see what he is when he gets back. But early, early returns are that he's making good progress and and you on Baron J is another key. Like he, he didn't play it all last year, barely. Now he is the backup five. He's going to play 18 minutes a night, 15 to 18 minutes probably sometimes 20. And if they can get rebounding and shoplocking from him, I do think it's a dynamic group that can match up athletically with anyone that they face. Now how the how all the pieces fit together is going to be the question. Does Jonathan Camingo come in with the right mindset, playing a role rather than looking to get his stats and and and and and be, you know, and and increase his value on the

11:19free agent market. He's saying the right things right now. And so if he if he approaches that way, I like this group. I think they can be right in the mix for a home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs. No, but no, there's no question about that. Like they're that's the team they've been more or less though, you know, they're seeding his us related up and down because the West is so volatile, but and so competitive. They're going to be really good. I've always liked Camingo. I've always been more bullish than consensus on or then then at least the Warriors coaching staff was on Camingo. I think everyone involved from his agent to the Warriors to Camingo himself, like he handled that situation very poorly. But you know, the bottom line is like for all the explosive potential that is there, it's now been in Golden State and Atlanta that the results have been kind of like, yeah, sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. They have the scoring outbursts, including I do worry a little bit and I don't think Tim

12:19Connolly would do this, but I do worry if the Wolves are like over indexing a little bit on the one playoff series that Camingo played against the Timberwolves when Steph Curry was hurt in the average like 20 something in game because they keep talking about that. Like, yeah, we saw it firsthand. As a Camingo booster, I should have been like crowing about that series. And I actually just felt like he just kind of made a lot of really difficult jump shots. And yeah, and it was efficient. Like you just made a lot of shots and he's just not going to make that much. He gets to the line all the time, which is a good skill. But for this to work, some other part of his game is going to have to really, really blossom other than just I can put my head down at score. The one thing I'll give him credit for is like, there was all this noise all the time about how he doesn't play the way Steve Kerr seems play doesn't mesh. He doesn't move the ball is intuitively. And like no one moves the ball is intuitively is Dremon green. No one moves off the ball is intuitively as Steph Curry. Like to judge any player based that like Kelly Ubrei went in there and failed completely

13:22because he couldn't play that was it's like you're you're asking regular pro basketball players to play with like Mozart basically. And coming to like his average three and a half assists per 36 minutes. Like that's not nothing. I actually think he can move the ball a little bit and be a handoff guy. And I thought he actually tried to do that a little bit in gold and state. I just I do wonder how this starting five is going to work. And if there's a world in which it doesn't work and they have to change it up midway through the season and what that will do to their chemistry. But it's it's definitely worth a bet at this price point. Like I think I just here here's what I come down to. Since the Go Bear trade, which I guess we can just keep litigating whether it worked or not because it worked. You take I mean it worked. Is it possible that it worked and I'm like they still just gave up too much for you to go but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's the right answer. Yes. And he's eligible for an extension right now. By the way, is there anything going on with that? I haven't heard anything yet on that front.

14:24I know he wants to be here long term. The wolves will love to keep him around. The question will be what that price point is as he gets a little bit older with you on Baron J coming up the ranks. And and so I think that is something to explore. But they want to keep that relationship going. He has been when you look at just the output on the court. If you take away what they gave up for him, it's been an unmitigated success. It depends a player of the year to West recovery's finals. Second round like these are this is air like a plateau that this organization has never reached. For a yeah, for a punchline franchise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now did they give up to maybe one too many first-round picks and one too many swaps? Yeah. I think so. And they would probably tell you that like they did overpay for him. But at least they have gotten a return on his investment. And the hope is Zach that bringing the mellow ball in will actually extend to Rudy's effectiveness offensively because they have not had a guy who can throw a lot of pass.

15:28Two men. For four years. You know who you're talking to. Lamello, the mellow ball apologists number one. Like I've been telling people for years that yeah, this guy does some goofy shit during games and like there's going to be the one like it threes that you're going to hate. And there have been several late game decision making errors that are just ghastly. He's a really, really good offensive player. He's a great offensive player. And I think in this system, having seen a team that drafted him, that he made popular with their local fan base, and had the most exciting 55 game stretch, maybe in the entire history of the new Charlotte Hornets, say to him, hey cool, we're sending you off for Nas Reed in a first round pick and some pickswops because more or less, when we get into real games and we're going to get into real games at some point with conca nipple and Brandon Miller, like second round playoff games and stuff like that.

16:30We just don't think you play tough and serious enough basketball. I hope he heard that because he's tall enough physical enough and if he stays healthy, which is obviously a big if good enough to play serious basketball on both ends of the floor. And I just think the offense, he, it's mostly going to work. He's going to be fine. He and Ant will mesh well. He and go bear will mesh well. The coming of pieces is interesting, but this is why I brought up Rudy. I do think there's been an element of the wolves kind of chasing their tails since that trade. So they gave up a ton for go bear. They knew we knew immediately when it happened. You're now in cap jail with this roster and the only way out of it is going to be trading cat and they inevitably did end up trading cat for Julius Randall. Then they have to dump Julius Randall to get Lemolo ball. Similarly, like the trade for dealing him not working out, which was like a worthy swing. They have to dump him and then they get IO to kind of replace him. It just feels like they're chasing their tails, but they and they, but they have maintained

17:34a level of like elite borderline elite success while doing it. And it kind of feels like spinning plates to me to use another metaphor. And I just wonder like how long they can keep spinning the plates. And if they can ever actually get up to the level of the two juggernauts in the West, or if they're just now kind of trapped with a team that is really, really good, but not good enough, it has no path to capitalix ability for like four years at this point. Yeah, I think like you're speaking of the Tim Connoly ethos since he came to Minnesota is basically been like, I'm going to keep making moves. And if this one doesn't work, we'll find another one around the corner and we'll keep going and we'll keep going until we get it to click into place because you're right. Like they don't have a lot of they have no assets really to trade draft pick wise going forward. If this iteration doesn't work now, you could say, well, maybe then you look at trading J and McDaniels and you get some draft picks for him or something like that.

18:34It's more chasing your tails when you get it. It's the cat thing again. Like when you're only way out is to trade an awesome player that is imperfect, but awesome. Like it's it's kind of painful. But what they'll tell you is yes, there is that element, but also Anthony Edwards is 25. Lamella ball is 25. J and McDaniels will turn 26 or the earliest one. I have to assume was 26. You on Baron J is 20. Caminga's 23. Like they have a very young core that if it does click into place can be here together for a very, very long time. And so with they feel like with Anton Lamello and Jaden in particular that three headed young core, like they feel like that's going to be the thing that they can just keep building around and every team kind of has to shuffle their decks around their main guys. And so they they really feel confident about the most interesting part about it. Zach is like all of these bets that they have taken have been on very polarizing dudes.

19:37Like Rudy Gobert is really polarizing. Lamello ball is polarizing. Caminga is polarizing. They've got a lot of these guys that the rest of the league looks at and is like, I don't know. And the ones like, yeah, bring them in. Let's go. Let's put these all these misfit toys together. We think it's going to work out. So there is some gamble to it. There is some risk. Absolutely. But they also have a lot of talent on this roster. And they're going to be nights where they match up. When things are going well, you're thinking, holy cow, like what's going to happen? The question is going to be can they sustain it over a year, two years, three years as the ant enters his prime? Look, as someone who has been higher, much higher than consensus on Lamello, the health is the one thing that worries me. If you can get 65 games out of him again, I have no question that that part of this is all going to work. I guess I just have to applaud them for like, okay, so Oklahoma City is awesome and super young. San Antonio's awesome and super young and has the guy who's about to be the best player

20:39in the world. If he's not already, the best player in the world and figures to hold that spot for quite a long time. Like, well, what am I supposed to do as a team in the Western conference? Well, a try to move east. How's that going, by the way? I saw some. I didn't I see some report last week that they are now the favorites to move east if you get to two Western conference teams? Yes, I would say internally they feel confident or optimistic that they are going to be the team to move east with, you know, then you pair them with Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana or Detroit, however, you work, but you can cluster them with a central division that really makes a lot more sense geographically. And so yeah, I think that they would welcome it and they've been trying to do it for 15 years. And now it looks like they're on the doorstep of that. So they feel good about that. Nothing's been told to them or communicated to them, but I think there's a really good chance that they'll be in the east. It's just donning it. It's just donning on me that like expansion, you know, there's like, you know, you talk to different ownership groups. There's like pros and cons like economic, is it make sense? Do we want to do this?

21:39Do we want to dilute the TV revenue? It's just donning on me that maybe Minnesota's ownership group, which just changed and we'll talk about that is like, expansion, no brainer. We're definitely from expansion here in Minnesota. Who cares about the money stuff? So either it's move east or like, what else you're supposed to do? Yeah, exactly. Like we try. Yes. And the goal of it. And the Lamello thing is a bet on it. I'm a big believer in this. You're not going to beat those teams by playing like them or playing like a kind of typical team. You've got to have something atypical about you and the wolves now have something atypical about them. I just, it's just going to be a tough road to home. That's fine. Maybe it takes someone on the thunder getting injured in the playoffs or whatever. That happens all the time and it could well happen. The right time for that. But I want to do, I do want to zero in on Kaminga. Like, yeah. I'm not going to be a bad liner. He's a new acquisition. What have I not brought up or what have we not talked about in terms of his fit on this team? By the way, yes, he theoretically turned down more money from the Lakers. That would have had to have been a sign and trade.

22:41That was never like complete. According to people I've talked to around that transaction and the hawks are hardcapped at the first apron. They would be the sign and trade partner having to take salary back. I think the bulls and the blazers got in and at the end. Look, there's no question. John think Kaminga is strategy and his agent strategy has cost him a lot of money in the last few years. But at this price, he's a bargain. But let's talk more about the basketball. Yeah, the basketball of it. We talk about it a little bit, but I think it really bears kind of drilling in on is the defensive element of it can be really special in terms of, you know, he I reported it last week. But Anthony Edwards was very vocal in his recruiting of Jonathan Kaminga. And the thing that they talked about all the time was how special they can be defensively. And Kaminga is coming in here expecting to essentially tag team with Jade McDaniels on guarding the best player of the on the opponents team. And I can tell you that when the wolves look that bringing Kaminga in, obviously you say,

23:43yeah, we'll take a player who probably is in that $15, $18 million worth range at least right now and for $6 million, of course, that's a no brainer. But one of the big things that they like about the calculus of it, they didn't have a power forward before this like they did not have that real option. And so to be able to slide Kaminga in there, it just like settles the rest of their group. And so they they look at it as now they have some option for when they do get into a series against San Antonio or against Oklahoma City that wants to play bigger, that wants to beat you up in the mid range a little bit. Kaminga can stand up to that a little bit more. And so they feel like there is a bet they have a better matchup answer for both of those teams. Now the shooting will be a question mark. And kind of a little bit of the playmaking as well, I think, but they're looking at returning a little bit more to their defensive roots and saying, we're going to have a big strong

24:47starting five where everyone is six seven or taller except for Ant who's like six five. And we can really make life miserable for opponents and then get out and run and convert and transition with O'Meleball throwing half court lobs to people. And that will be really exciting and a fun way for these guys to play. I think Anthony Edwards plays his best when he's having fun and he really wanted both Lamello ball and John I think Kaminga and was very active in recruiting them. And so they just really think highly of what Kaminga represents as a physical presence for them to be able to just overpower people athletically. I'm glad you brought up that part because I was talking about this with someone from the wolves last week. And we were also talking about Peyton Watson is like, I just think you need a requisite amount of just power. I say like the power athleticism speed to compete against those teams at the top of the

25:47conference. They're so young and they're so athletic. They play so feisty in your jersey, physical basketball. That's the question about Lamello ball. It's not a question about Kaminga and it's why I think the Peyton Watson departure is a bigger loss for Denver than it would look on paper even when you throw in the salary of the pick they got all that. I just don't think Denver has enough. And so I can't wait to see if I can do any more. And Kaminga definitely has that. I can't wait to watch this team play. Like I'm going to do my league pass rankings next month. They're going to be very high. When you said the phrase Lamello ball throwing half court lubs, literally the first thing that popped into my brain was I hope Chris Finches extending his vacation wherever he is and really getting like a nice break from this. This is going to be a big challenge for him. And there are going to be a lot of games where he's going to be on the sideline like, what the fuck just happened? Just do like what's happening. But on Kaminga, I just I just wonder what is he going to do to be useful in the half court

26:47when go bear is on the floor and is the main screen setter or vice versa because they ran it to this problem in Atlanta where the Kaminga, Jalen Johnson, combo seemed so enticing at the three and the four, whatever it was. And it ended up mostly being like not mostly but a lot being Kaminga kind of standing in the corner because Jalen Johnson was on the ball or setting screens on the ball or on Yaka Kangu was on the ball or setting screens on the ball or Joc Landel or whatever. And you know, it just is going to require him to buy into like second side handoffs. Like, and go bear pick and roll turns into swing it to Kaminga handoff to Lamello ball cutting moving without the ball transition. And like, I just that's going to be the test of like literally where is he standing? What is he doing when the game slows down? I totally agree with that because I do think that one of the things that the wolves sort of had to wrestle with in the Julius Randall era was, okay, you have Ant and Julius who are both

27:50ISO heavy players. And that would really bog down their half court offense when both of those guys were kind of in, I got to get mine mode. And Kaminga is another guy who has shown a tendency to be an ISO kind of a player. And so what they cannot have happen is it turn into a plotting offense. It's got to be, you've got to be able to harness that athleticism and that electricity in the right way. And one of the reasons that Jonathan Kaminga chose to take the last money to come to Minnesota is that he believes that he's coming to a team that does believe in him. And so I think at least at the outset, they're all saying the right things in terms of let's just make the right play. Let's just find the right guy and then if we have a mismatch exploit, whatever that is, if it's Kaminga, if it's Ant, if it's J.M. McDaniel's, whatever, let's just go that way. So the key will be making sure that Kaminga feels all a part of things even

28:55when you have to minimize some of his role offensively. And right now, as he's 23 and he's been kind of bounced around a little bit and maybe he's taken a little bit of criticism for a lot of criticism for how all of the contract stuff has worked out. Maybe he comes in with the right mindset of just doing all of the dirty work and then knowing that if he does that and they win at a high level, all of that money that he wants or at least a lot of it is going to come his way whether it's in Minnesota or elsewhere next summer. I will, I just going to point this out. Last 23 games of last season, Cody Williams, 16 and a half points, 4.7 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 47% shooting, 20% on threes, that's not great, 11 to 54, but 54% on twos. I understand the mechanics of the trade for both Minnesota, Minnesota had to do it to get under whatever apron and Utah season opportunity. I am a little surprised despite

29:58how many young guys on the wing that Utah has to find minutes for. Like in those same 23 games, Bryce Sensbaw average 23 points of game. So there's some garbage going on in those games to be clear. I am a little surprised that they cut bait on him so fast. The first year of his career was like incredibly ugly. Like there's no question about that. It was like, oh my god, is this guy just like completely unqualified? But he showed some stuff last year. He certainly got a frame to be a good defender. You know, he was picked right in front of Matas Buzellis and a little bit in front of Jared McCann and Carl Whare and Jail and Tyson. So it's like that's a kind of a bad whiff for the jazz. I actually think I'm going to be, he doesn't have to play, which is great for Minnesota. Like they have no, they're not invested in him the way Utah was. They're pretty, they have enough depth that they don't have to play him. He's going to get a shot and I'm actually kind of interested in how he does. I assume that they are kind of interested in him too. I understand

31:00he's a math part of the trade back. I like the flyer. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's a flyer and obviously they waved and stretched Sean Conchar the vet that came with him and that deal and they want to get a look at Cody Williams. I mean, Wolves fans have looked at this deal and they remember back to the last time the Wolves made a trade with the jazz and it was, hey, we get my calmly. He's the point guard and oh yeah, they just threw in this other guy, Nikhil Alexander Walker and he's just, you know, he just makes the math work. It's not going to, there's nothing going to be happening on that and Nikhil turns into and is developed into an unbelievable role player for them goes to Atlanta and takes another step and he's, you know, a $20 million player now for in the league and will that happen with Cody Williams? I don't know, but I do understand and I think it's good business when you can acquire a young talent and just see if getting him in a new system, getting him around some new new talent and a new coaching staff

32:02brings out something that another team wasn't able to do and so it makes all the sense in the world that yeah, let's just see what we have here. Bring him along slowly and don't put too much pressure on him and if he develops into a wing for guy that can play some defense and and and just wreak havoc a little bit in small situations. Hey, that's that's a great thing and they could use that in the front court for sure. I think it's a worthy flyer. I'm looking over there. I'm not going to do their over under because Bill House and I are doing our second annual over unders podcast. I was the winner last year. It was like being the thinnest kid in fact can't like be all sucked. And I won take the trophy when you can get it. 47 and a half feels right. Interestingly, we're we'll talk about this on that part, but all of the numbers are really scrunched because of the of the anti-tanking rules that are taking into effect. Feels like a good number to me from Minnesota. I'm very interested to see how they do. I'm excited to watch their

33:06team. Did you get on the, did the Kriwa Zinski family go anywhere fun this summer? Did you get any downtime? We got to Hawaii just last week. So it was the first time I've ever been and it was everything you could possibly have hoped for. We were in Maui and just snorkeling, stayed at a resort with some swimming for the kids and went hiking and found some waterfalls. It was lovely. And the great thing about it, Zach, was that they had an ownership change in the middle of that. But it happened at like 5am Maui time. So I was able to get that done before the kids woke up and no harm, no foul. New era with Mark Stad and the owners, but yeah, Maui and Hawaii was exactly what was needed at this point in August right before school starts. So my wife and I have like dream trip lists that we try to see like how aligned we are. We are aligned on number one, which is Japan. At some point the low family has to take Japan. Number Hawaii is number two for me. I'm just like, I just have to go and it's a little lower on

34:12her list because there's far-felling places outside of the US that you want to see. But that's a far-felling place. I mean, from where I am. It's super far from where you are. It's super far. How do you entertain the kids on vacation? What besides the activities you're talking about? Do you like when you go all go to dinner? Do you have a strategy? Do you have a card game? What do you do? So yeah, actually what we do is we tire them out so much during the day with activities and then buy dinner time. It's like, hey, we're chilling. We're just going to have dinner. We're going to eat. We're going to tell some jokes. My son will speak, hey, who's your starting five if you could just start today and then he will talk NBA. He's just going first take topics at you. All the way in. Yeah, it's Jordan versus LeBron. It's like, hey, okay, all time, who would you take on the box? So we go through the whole thing and he asks about Bill Russell and he asks, dude, does my wife kind of like roll her eyes and just

35:13like, can we have a, we're going to have about to have nine months of basketball talk? Can we not? But to we'll have, yeah, we'll just we'll just chat and talk conversation. But usually they are so gassed by that time that we can have a little chill. I'll have a drink, have a glass of wine and and kick back and then and then we'll head back to the to the resort and just kick our feet up. But that's that's the whole style. We don't yeah, we don't try and do tricks or parlor games or things like that because they'll like chew that up and spit it right out at us. First of all, my daughter unleashed her first really first take ready. Let's go. Sports take over vacation because we're you know, we're we're in Europe so we're we can't really watch the meds play. But they were pretty solidly over 500 while we were away and we're walking to the beach one day and she we're talking about the meds and she just goes daddy. I think we might be better without Soto and I was like, whoa, whoa, that's a first take discussion. It's like first of all, matter, you're wrong. Like they're definitely she just doesn't really love Soto, but she's like, we're playing better like maybe we don't need Soto and then she

36:16was like, what if we traded him to Baltimore to get Pete back, Pete Alonzo back up like, you're this is just your programming a great show. I love it. But here's our card game. I want to give one advertisement for so Uno obviously is a legendary card game. Have you ever played Uno Flip? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a big one. Yes. Uno Flip top 10 card game I've ever played and we have a deal when we're in Croatia because she's with her another cousin who's 11 years old. The three of us play together. And if they combined can go on a winning streak of five against me. But they can't they can't collude. They have to play honestly to win. But if they can do that. Yes, they because I will I will I will chastise them if they intentionally I will they have to win five in a row against me. And then they get two scoops of ice cream instead of one. And let me tell you, John, I take such joy in crushing. There was there was a day there were a couple days where they couldn't even extend the streak past one. And I was talking so much. Yes. But nothing

37:21gives me more pleasure than when they get to four, which happens because there's two of them versus one of me. And I snap the streak. But Uno Flip or you can see the card. I highly recommend Uno Flip. All right, John Krasinski. You're the best. Read everything he does at the athletic to John Krasinski show. I saw you did a live show with Tim Connelly and other guests at Brewery and Minneapolis. When I get out there this year, let's go, let's go to the Brewery and have a drink. You're you you just tell me anytime that we'll make a new live show for you specifically and get you out there as well. Let's go. All right, John. Thanks, but I'll see you soon. Thanks, there. All right, enough timber was let zoom out and talk other stuff around the league. Moe T'Killin here. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great. Zach. I mean, it's really hot in L.A. right now, but yeah, we're doing all right. I have not spoken to you in a month or so. We did text the last time you were here. I vowed to text you something nasty if the Dodgers acquired to re-excuboal they did and I texted you, fuck the Dodgers. And so I wish you nothing but bad luck

38:25in baseball for the rest of the season. But look, you loaded up. Good, good for you. And now, now your owner is in a little bit of a little bit of something. So we'll see what happens. A little bit of something's probably it understated. It's definitely a weird situation. The Dodgers did that they normally do, which is completely suck in August so that we all freak out about them. But hopefully our bats will come to life here in September as we get going and we'll be ready to go for the plus. I did enjoy the text message though. I did enjoy that. I didn't realize until I did maybe the Mets played the Dodgers right before I left. I think I went to a Mets Dodgers game actually. And I did not realize that Kyle Tucker, who the Mets really wanted and then signed for a gazillion lives with the Dodgers was having such a crappy like a crappy season, a sub 700 OPS season for you guys. That made me very happy. I revel in failure. I'm becoming becoming a fan again has has reactivated the worst parts of my personality. That's fandom. So like Freddie Peralta we trade him to the rays and he continues sucking. I'm like good. I'm glad

39:30Freddie Peralta still sucks. So like, well, but no wait, why it's over. It's a sunk cost for us. It felt why do I care? Well, I should not wish him happiness and success as a human person. And I don't. I wish him failure. And so far so and even even brasabana really dependable reliever the Mets traded. He went to the white socks and he's been blah for them. I'm less happy about his failure because he was a long time. But it's I'm it's I don't like the person that I'm becoming rejoicing in Kyle Tucker walking up with the 688 OPS and me being like, oh, that's good. It's fandom. That's fandom, right? fandom is loving your team and hating everything else against your team or anything that goes against your way. And yeah, man, the Kyle Tucker run has been brutal this season. To the point where it's like when he gets one hit Zach, I'm just like, okay, maybe this is the start. Maybe we'll get some sort of push towards the end. But, you know, I'm holding out faith. Luckily, we got a lot of guys. We could we just got to get our vats going again. We've we've not been hitting our pitching has been great. The guys that they

40:34get, especially now that we're starting to get healthy, got class now back, got snowback a couple of weeks ago. You know, we're beginning to kind of get like, hey, guys, our startings are going, you know, one or two earned runs and things like that. But our vats have been just brutally quiet. So I do have one important baseball take that is relevant to what happened over the weekend. There's only one team, maybe two in all of sports that are really truly hate. And that's the Yankees. And so I'm now going to defend the Yankees. I don't know if you saw this yesterday. They were playing the Red Sox. That's a good versus evil game for me. My dad is a huge Red Sox fan. And the Yankees were ahead seven to one in the eighth inning. And jazz chiseled was on second base. And they were not holding him on. And he stole third. And the Red Sox radio announcers went bananas about how unprofessional it was. He'd violated an unwritten rule and like what a loser, what a Bush league,

41:35the phrase Bush league was throwing out. As you know, I think most unwritten rules are stupid. This I'm going to defend the Yankees. Seven to one. I just saw the San Francisco Giants blow a six run lead in the ninth inning. Seven one in the ninth. And no outs. So stealing third, less than two outs has value. Hold them on or just let them or don't win. That he steals third. That's that's it's not 15 to one. It became 15 to one shortly after that. Seven to one. All bets are off. This is based. This is like the people come back from big deficits all the time. That's garbage. I hate the unwritten rules. I hated in the NBA. And I hated it in baseball. Jazz Chisholm has had some flare ups with the Yankees and with other teams. He does some stuff that is like a little unusual for baseball players to do. But I had no problem with that. And yeah, hurts me to defend the Yankees. The other team I have hate is the Braves. Those are the only teams that I feel like real vitriol for. Yeah, no, I appreciate Dodgers aren't there in that

42:40the hatred level of your your stuff. But with the unwritten rule stuff, I'm so tired of it. Like it's like you said, either hold them on or don't complain about it. It's the same thing in the NBA when somebody dunks at the end of the game. Well, like, hey, you know, maybe just play defense. It's that simple. Don't get your ass kicked. It's really that simple. It's hard not to get your ass kicked sometimes. But don't bitch about it afterwards. I'm just overall of that. I'm not happy that the Yankees are so good this year. That is upsetting me. And if it's a Yankees Dodgers World Series for the second time in three years, I'm going to be very upset. But that's a different story. Okay, Mo, I just had John Presidents. Yeah, we talked about the new look. Minnesota, Timberwolves, John, I think, Kaminga and all that. We knew a couple big questions with Mo. It's August 31st. There's not much going on. Couple big questions with Mo. And we were going to focus on the playoff races. So big question number one from Mo. The top six in the West last year. In order was Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Denver, Lakers, Rockets, Minnesota.

43:42It would be a surprise to me if that were not in some order, the top six in the West again, although some of those teams certainly have flaws. I think Houston is actually being a little underrated. Now that Fred Van Vley just back, I think they have a chance to win a lot of games. But things happen in the NBA. Weird things happen. So my question is, who is the most likely team to unseat one of those top six and sneak into the top six in the West? Mo, who is your answer to that question? Yeah, like when you look at it and it's tough with just how deep like the West is, I'm not sure anybody's going to Zach. Like this is the thing. Like that's not the question, Mo. You got to play along. Okay, I'll play along. I will play along with you. I will go with I think, and this is going to be a long shot here. I think the maps might pull it off if they get a great Kyrie year. Wow. They were not even one of my like top five candidates.

44:44Okay, let's talk, let's talk it through. So you are super optimistic about the Dallas, Mavericks talk, talk, talk, talk. I think I think we really kind of underrate one. We haven't seen Kyrie play basketball in forever. And when that happens, we tend to forget how good of a ball handler he is, how good of a creator he is, how good he can get other things going. But I think the thing that's most important about all of that is how that unlocks Cooper flag. And I think that's really an important sort of situation with what you're looking at is like so much was put on Cooper flag last year where he had the play point guard. You know, everything with the responsibilities he had as a rookie and having to deal with all that stuff. Now you get to put him in spots where it's not all on him to create for everybody. Now you get to put him in spots where he can work at the elbow and go to work from there. Then you're going to be able to operate a little bit more in kind of a almost a little pick and roll action with Kyrie even would be fun to watch in that scenario and the way that can kind of develop. I think there's a lot of stuff that they can do and play with that will open things up and then we'll open up stuff for the supporting cast around them,

45:48which I still really like like I'm you know, look, Gafford, we got to, excuse me, not Gafford, lively. I'm definitely worried about the leg injuries and things like that. That's definitely a big thing. I'm trying to be an optimist and going to just, you know, zoom and just say, okay, if we get a good health the year from him as well, like they got the size, they got good stuff. I like the way they're kind of set up. Is it like I said, it's a long shot, but I think that's a team I think that we're really kind of sleeping on. Interesting. I mean, they have real depth. A lot of their they have like 19 power forwards on their team, but power forward type players and PJ, but they're all decent like PJ Washington, Santiago, Dama, Naji Marshall, Caleb Martin, Marez Johnson. We'll see how much he can give is a rookie. Like they're they're all our different players, but they all on the positional spectrum are kind of four is Cooper flag is actually kind of a four. So that makes and resusé to I mean, resusé is more of a three than a four, but he's, you know, like we'll see what he can bring them. So I like their collection of talent. I'm just not

46:49sure how it all fits together and if they have enough shooting, but you're right, like Kyrie, one of the more interesting situations in the league, like I saw some reports somewhere while I was on vacation that teams in the league are monitoring the Kyrie Irving situation. What are the great no shit kind of reports in the NBA's teams are monitoring what do you think if teams aren't monitoring Kyrie Irving? Like what would they be doing? Sleeping, of course, they're monitoring Kyrie. He's a many time all star who's on a semi expiring contract. Will the match straight him? I don't know. They don't really want to. He matches well with Cooper flag. Cooper flag loves him. We'll see what kind of start they get off to because calculations change teams change and we'll see what happens. Of course, teams are monitoring, but he's he's an awesome player. He brings all the skills that they need to kind of make their roster click to in place in one guy. That's a bold pick moe. I'm just a bold pick. I'm going to I'm going to reduce the overunders of the candidates that I just wrote down for this. I'm not doing overunders. I'm saving that for Bill's pod, but here are the teams I wrote down in order from least to most wins projected New Orleans 28 and a half. Just I

47:56just wrote them down. I just was like, I'm going to they have a lot of players. That's one thing I can say about the New Orleans pelicans. They have a lot of players. They did realize that they could sign and trade for New Orleans recently, which is good for them. Dallas 32 and a half. Utah 37 and a half. Golden State 38 and a half. Kind of a little higher than I expected actually. Phoenix 39 and a half. This is all on Fandall Portland 41 and a half. I actually am a little bit surprised that Portland has the highest number of this group. I am going to answer my own question and I'm going to pick Utah as the team most likely to unseed the top six. I don't think anyone is particularly likely to do it, but Utah will be my pick even though they're the third most wins projected of this group. Phoenix would be my second pick there. I feel like they're the most stable. They know who they are.

49:01They had a nice year last year going all in on defense and Dylan Brooks. They made a couple of trades that I may or may not help them. I think we'll help them. Their young guys will get better. Devon Booker is a great floor razor. I think they're a pretty solid 40 something win team, but I'm going Utah and the reason I'm going Utah is I think despite losing Kessler when they just got an offer they couldn't refuse and they had to do it. I don't think they wanted to. I really think they believed in this triple big lineup and they drafted Walker Kessler. He's a elite rim protector has more to give on offense, et cetera. Talk more about him later in the discussion. I think there's some potentially special alchemy between the guards, Kianta, Georgian, Darren Peterson, but particularly if the marketing, Jaren Jackson, Jr. combo can stay healthy for most of the season. I think they've got some potential to unlock something interesting there. I think everybody amplifies each other on both ends of the floor.

50:01Their depth is a little scatter shot. I do like that they've added a couple of wing veterans, Josh Akogi and Josh Green, the Joshes because they're bench guys. Obviously they'll stagger minutes among their starters, but their bench guys are like calliers, sensible, ace, Bailey, flip. Interesting players, but young players and somewhat unreliable players. So I like that they've got some veterans, but I'm picking you top. Am I too high? Am I too high on you top? I don't know. You're not too high on it. If I wanted to be sensible, I would have gone with you, I think is the most, is the best answer to this question. If you wanted to be sensible about it. Oh boy. I spent a good portion of our family trip just intentionally annoying my wife and daughter with horrible dad jokes based on the places where we were. So Finland was a great example

51:02of that because I could use Finnish in any number of different ways. Anyway, I guess I just have to get out. Although I need to practice that because as you know, at the end of September, I will be a dad. So I have to start honing in that skill and being able to just drive my wife and that's with dad jokes. But I think when you look at Utah, I just think the collection of talent is so good with the way they're kind of set up. I think however they want to go about it, my concern will be what's it look like with, that's a lot of mouths to feed out as Darian Peterson that how does can't they just like all their playmakers are young players. And I think that's going to be the thing is how does they handle the responsibility of creating for everybody or making sure hey man, Triple J hasn't had a touch in like five possessions. And we need to make sure he gets one and make sure he kind of starts to feel some of the action. Some of that's going to have to come from Will Hardy in terms of calling the plays and making sure

52:03he's pushing the right buttons. But I think their playmakers are so young and the may going to play heavy minutes like that would be my concern. But when you just look at their talent, I think that's a team that's most likely the one that's going to be able to kind of jump into that top six and make that run into it. You know, with what they have with Peterson and Bailey as well, young guys, it's super athletic. I want to see how that kind of plays out. Those two pair on top of that with Kianta George, you know, you know what you're going to get from Triple J? You know what you're going to get from Mark and need obviously, can we just the caveat for everybody just be healthy? Yeah. That's just the caveat. But like, I think they need to keep on top of that stuff. I like having Nurgut, you know, coming off the bench a little bit as a big guy, a little bit of a different look and everything that they have. I think that's a reasonable pick. And when you look at the teams saying like they've done a lot from basically last trade deadline to now that they've made the most material change where you think this is really going to have the impact. And it's finally time

53:05for Utah to start winning games. Well, I think I think Nurgut is going to start to open the season. And I think that's that's the Kessler hit where it really hits home because I use some Nurgut's as a nice player. He was very good for Utah last year. He's best is a backup now. And I think he's going to be overtaxed as a starter, but he's surrounded by size and they have Jackson Hayes and Philip House could play some center bombas here. We'll see how they fill that out. But you hit you hit on the argument against my this collection of players could all amplify each other because of the shooting ability of Mark and in and the shooting ability of triple J plus his defense is it's not a great passing team. The best passer on the team is probably Collier who's going to come off the bench. And so we'll see how they can sort of I mean Peterson is a good passer, but he's a rookie and we'll see how he plays. But I think that's the caveat. I want to talk about the go ahead, but also like the thing that's concerned me even if it was Kessler starting

54:07like the thing that concerns me is now you have Mark and in guarding threes. And that's something where I think you're going to really kind of start to find that problem. I don't know how long that can last for for for what they have in the especially in the West and how how difficult it can be. Oh, now you're making me now you're making me because because you want to say well he's A he's done it before B well there's probably matchups where they can stash him on a whatever week link player over there, but they're starting five does not have like okay, but this guy can go guard the apex wing on the other team. So like who's guarding Anthony Edwards who's guarding you know she picked pick a pick who's guarding Kevin Durant who's guarding what all these players. Yeah, and I think that's going to be the that's going to be the question that they do need to figure out if they're going to go with this who were big lineup that they want to kind of go with if they're going to start an air kitchen. Then that's another guy who in space not really somebody I'd really want to have to depend on in the in pick it or all defense. So that they still Zach I still think it's the right pick. Okay, but I just think there's questions you're you're you're moving away from

55:11your own pick. You're the the Dallas map. I went with bold. I want with the other version of their starting five in theory would be Ace Bailey starting at the three and Nirkich coming off the bench and triple J playing center. I think they want to try out the the super big lineup. There's also a world in which they just decide for the exact reason you're talking about like Joshua Kogi is just constantly a spot starter everywhere he goes like suddenly Josh Kogi starts 15 games in a row like that wouldn't shock me either just to get a like a very good defender in the starting five. Let's talk about Portland. I was actually surprised when I went through the fandals stuff that they had the highest over under of this group at 41 and a half. That's a huge vote of confidence in Portland's defensive infrastructure. I think headline by Donut McClingan and Tomani Kamaro who will start at the four in the five where you can call Denny the four. I guess whatever he is. You know they're starting five. I guess they're really going to do this

56:13Morant Lillard and then Abdiya Kamaro Klingan that would bring Scoot off the bench with Drew Holiday Robert Williams is back as the backup five in Hanson Young is here as well. They don't really have a proven backup four and the Kreechie is a backup point guard and Shaden Sharp is out for six months with a meniscus injury. I 41 and a half feels pretty high to me based on the fact that that starting guard combination is dead on arrival defensively no matter who's behind it. And I just Morant is a complete wild card. The bench is kind of shallow. It's a strange brew of guys with a first year head coach, a Mike and Nora who's on a one year contract because Tom Dunn has decided to operate like a joke. I don't I would pick Phoenix or Utah over them. I don't know maybe you just I mean defensively they were really good last year. Maybe they can duplicate it.

57:18It just I don't know I don't see a team quite that good. It's really hard to duplicate what they did defensively when you're bringing in John Dame in your back court to start. Not that I mean obviously they have Drew Holiday what he was playing last season obviously your defensive level raises up another notch. But when you're going to start those two guys that puts so much pressure on you defensively. Then he not quite what he was defensively before and now is more focused in what he can do in terms of you know just let me get downhill attack and push and transition. So now it comes down to two guys having to cover for the other three and that's a really difficult position to be in if you're clinging or Camara in the way position you're set up. And then I'm also worried about them offensively. Zach like I I'm with you and that I would have Utah and Phoenix and even Dallas above them because at least Dallas has a framework and understanding of where they can how they can attack offensively. This team is going to be really sort of almost confused right like is it Dame pick and roll action? Is it job picking roll action and him getting downhill? How does

58:20Danny play with that? Well how does he work in that? I know he can space a little bit but at the top of that he's his breakout was him getting the ball and going downhill and getting to the free throw line like being able to manage all of that stuff and work through all of that stuff offensively and finding your offensive system in your flow is going to be really difficult. Then Dame who you know in the twilight of his career coming off in a killi's injury like yeah I saw the video he shot 94% in practice great that doesn't matter in games right it becomes much more difficult in that level and I know his shots not what I'm worried about it's him moving around on top of that and again figuring out how he's going to play how is he going to work with Joe then you come off the bench like I'm worried about Scouts development you know how much you know what's going to become scoop Henderson now at this point with with the way they're kind of set up like I'm very curious as to like what's their plan for him how are they going to develop him or if it's kind of over frame and in Portland and he's going to be a second draft I don't think it's over oh you in a second draft

59:24guy yeah I I see enough glimpses that I'm still interested he's actually a pretty interesting well I'm going to do a rookie class of draft class of 2023 extension stuff later this week with John Hollinger he's an interesting case I will see if they get a deal done but I like him where he is as a reserve for now but who knows what happens but the sharp injury is interesting and a huge bummer and and also may not really even matter to their win total which is a weird kind of dichotomy to say because if he's been a minus defender his whole career and I've always been intrigued by Shade and Sharp anyone who's listened or read me when I used to write would know that I mean he averaged 21 points a game last year yeah and it was just not but yet they get to the playoffs and his spot in the rotation strengths and shrinks and shrinks to the point of vanishing because he doesn't

1:00:24play defense well enough for the coaches he's not much of a passer he's a 33% career 3 point shooter and so it's kind of like great you go on runs where you make some pull up twos and get to the rim and all that but like what is it really amounting to and so I could see their defense being better or just as good or whatever without Shade and Sharp and offensively despite the prodigious scoring numbers I don't think he was like that central essential to their offense as a 21 point score typically is that said they have so many point guards and so few like wing players I guess Camara's a wing and Denny's a wing but you know Camara plays like a stand still power forward on offense plays it quite well and Denny plays like a point forward on offense that I was just kind of excited for Shade and Sharp to get to feel kind of important to their team and even a even a bigger way and now that's gone and Drew holidays here he's a wing he operates kind of like a wing

1:01:25but I don't I've always sort of wanted more from Shade and Sharp and I thought I think the numbers last year exaggerate his impact a bit and I'm just bummed that it's going to be there's been the setback I don't know maybe you maybe you are higher or lower on him than I am no I'm about right there maybe even just slightly lower in terms of just his overall like what's he going to be in the league at this point and and it's not a good sign when it's you know hey you averaged 21 points but a game and we didn't really feel your impact right like it wasn't in that way that's just not a good sign for any player of any any level and I think that's the thing that's a little bit concerning with him but I do think it's just a blow because it's another guy that they lost in terms of athletic wing you know part of what made this team so good to was how fast they played and he was part of that getting up and down the court in the way that they played so I think it's frustrating in terms of that and again I just when I look at this team you know like I was frustrated with the jatry or or or when they went and got shot like for me I just kind of looked

1:02:30like you I know you got him for nothing or essentially nothing but it was like but at what cost will it be for your team because now I look at like we talked about the back work defensively I don't know where he's going to fit in the offense and how that's going to work with him and Dame I didn't know what it was going to do with him in school and and and how that stuff kind of plays out like I for me just overall this whole team is just kind of I'm a little bit confused because I don't know how they they're going to play yet offensively and it's I don't know if they know that and it's a really tough position to put one of my favorite assistant coaches Mike at Norris in in in in this situation and then now it's on a one year deal too with the team option for next year you know and I think it's going to be really interesting to see how he navigates that whole thing of putting this offense together yeah I mean I didn't mind them or I trade because I just thought you know Chris Murray Jeremy Grant fine it's a it's an upside gamble but but at low cost he does have two guaranteed years left on his contract at big money so you're

1:03:30it he's not going to be easy to unload if this becomes a disaster and there is disaster potential for sure um I get yeah I mean I get why they did it we'll see how it all fits all right let's take a quick break then I'm going to do another big question with Moe all right big question number two with Moe I gave you an assignment and it was pick your most exciting playoff race potential for the upcoming season and that could be anything you want it could be the race for the one seed in the West presumably between the Thunder and the Spurs it could be the race for the Sixth seed in the West which you've already kind of talked about it could be anything you want what did you pick I went East okay and I went the basically the top six in the East but we can just do the Sixth seed because I got nine teams vying for six spots and I think that's really like when we talk about finally like this being the Eastern the year the Eastern Conference is is better than the West and everything with it that's what we're talking about a little bit legitimately nine teams

1:04:32can be can be in the top six and we're going to have three teams of those that are going to end up being in the plan and I'm kind of just fascinated by that when I was going through it and I was writing all my notes last night I even had at one point had eight and then forgot to forgot realize I forgot Indiana everyone just forgotten Indiana and which is insane because I'm actually was being really high on them and just completely whipped on that when I was writing my notes so it's nine teams for six spots I'm fascinated by that I have a couple of teams that I think are locked but then it's after that it gets really difficult so East top six was also my choice to this question so we're aligned I think this is going to be Helter Skelter from day one in the NBA every game is going to matter because there there are some chalk but there is going to be at least one team that ends up in the plan that if you told us today this team is going to be in the plan it would be like holy cow that team is eighth in the East so you had nine teams for six spots I actually

1:05:36just I have ten to be to be kind and Charlotte who's over under his 38 and a half was the eleventh uh for me I think that's appropriate for them I'd be surprised if they really budded into this discussion if they budded into the plan I won't be surprised um I'm guessing that Atlanta is the team I somewhat share to be put in the top ten that you did not is that accurate no I had Atlanta in there okay I'll try to figure out who the do you want me to run through my list I'll read I'll read you I'll read you the overunders just because there there's a clear drop off in the middle of this um so top five overunders are all within 48 and a half to 52 and a half New York 52 and a half I would lock them in I don't know if you disagree but I dare a lock lock Boston 50 and a half I am not locking them in no I think that it's not it's possible the nicks are my only absolute stone cold lock to be a top 16 Philly 49 and a half can't be locked just because

1:06:43there's so much uncertainty but they have a ton of talent even if and be Mrs 55 games they just LeBron, Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxley it's a lot of talent Detroit 48 and a half a 61 team is being downgraded to 48 and a half now a lot of this again is because of a lot of rules they actually might be my second lock just because they have a proven track record is like hey this might get ugly in the playoffs for us offensively but we with our defense and our formula for healthy Cades healthy Durin is going to be back one way or another I'm very confident um they just win a lot of games and Cleveland 48 and a half those are the five top teams by Vegas numbers then there's a three win drop to Toronto 45 and a half Miami 44 and a half or Lando 44 and a half Indiana 43 and a half Atlanta 42 and a half and if you had nine instead of those 10 and Atlanta was not your

1:07:44own mission I'm guessing Orlando was the own mission yeah I'm still hurt from last year as high as I was they do have a new coach mode so you know I know I so here's the thing right and I like swimming but I also think was like we don't know what he is as an offensive coach we know what he is as a defensive coach everywhere he's gone he's been in charge of the defense for the most part and has done extremely well obviously we saw what San Antonio was like we was in charge of the defense and Dallas when they went to the the finals if I'm remembering it correctly and everything but we don't know what they are off what he is offensively as a coach and that was their biggest problem was their offense as defense was terrible last year everything was bad last year but like their offense was lack creativity and everything I will be I need to see that before I'm going to put them in the in this category so that was my my one caveat I think that's fair I mean we know what their starting five is going to be because it's the same starting five as last year it's never healthy

1:08:46but this is what the starting five is Suggs Bane Wagner Bancaro Wendell Carter Jr. Their bench barring a leap from Jace Richardson or De Silva leaves me a little a little nervous it's just it's just lacks pop offensively I mean Vouchavitch is here I don't know if he's even going to play he could be behind Goga as the third center Anthony Black could be a very spicy contract extension case for the next couple of months he's average 15 a game last year so he he gives you a little pop I mean I know it's just you know one or more of the starters are going to be injured constantly and the bench makes me a little nervous but I'm with you I just look at this team we've been waiting for so long for the Wagner Bancaro combo to really click I mean it clicked to the point that can you actually build a top 10 offense out of this Suggs is never healthy he's he's sort of the keystone to making the whole thing work I just don't know how they just don't they're sealing does not feel very high to me I think their floor is pretty

1:09:46steady because they're going to compete on defense as they always have I just don't I I agree with them being placed in this sort of second tier but this is the most interesting race the most interesting race in the league I think and I'll just say like odds are one of the four of Boston Philly Detroit or Cleveland is going to be in the play and I don't know which one I don't know I think 50 and a half is high for Boston and I love them they are regular season wins machine they're counting on Mitchell Robinson staying healthy quite a bit although you know Kada's good as a backup obviously they have Paul George and not Jill and Brown bills talked himself into that that was one of my that was one of my favorite vacation trends was listening to bills pod and seeing him gradually go from hating this trade to tolerating this trade to like maybe this is a genius move trade congrats to bill on that I don't know like I just one of one of those teams is maybe gonna

1:10:47well I don't know because there's five and there's six spots so I think Toronto I think Toronto if this co-wide trade goes through is a very dangerous team that could win more like a lot of decent amount of regular season games and you just can't Miami and Indiana deserve a lot of benefit of the doubt Miami because they acquired one of the top five six players in the league and Indiana because they were in the finals a half second ago so it's gonna be it's gonna be spicy but I agree with you Orlando and Atlanta to me are like a tier lower and then Charlotte is a tier lower than them yeah I think for Charlotte is this might be a little bit of a step back year to take a massive step forward in the future with the guys that they have with the lamellotry that they made but I think when I look at it I had a I had Cleveland as a lock they're the other team that I just think they have too much talent I just think there's too much talent there for them not to be in the top six and they finally plugged the the the three spot with the Payton Watson move which I

1:11:48you know I really like for them you know which we'll see if Payton Watson is you know the the Payton Watson in January who went completely ballistic for the nuggets I don't even know if he's gonna get those opportunities as much but I think what he brings to that team allows them to change their lineups a little bit more and and not lose so much when they go to one big and I think that's gonna be a real important thing for them of course you know and I for me the teams that I'm kind of question mark like Boston you know you mentioned Mitchell Robinson we also got to mention tape them like he did it's true it's true and and and we've never heard the reason as to why he was out for game seven we don't know if it was a setback with the Achilles we don't know anything about it calf whatever but we just don't know what it is you know and I think that's something to keep an eye on with everything on top of Mitchell Robinson can he stay healthy Paul George what can you get from him on the floor I know Bill like you said Bill's kind of bought into it and and like Derek White one of my absolute favorite players in league do we have a bounce back offensively

1:12:53from like kind of a nightmare shooting season for him last year like that's now kind of a requirement for this team to hit expectations yeah and I think though that's a team that I'm looking at going like okay I don't know you know what's what's that gonna look like in that I could see some getting a bunch of wins and I could also see it kind of them struggling a little bit in and out with guys and injuries and things and then when we get to a team you know where you're kind of just like Toronto has gotten better if this co-Itrade happens like I would almost put them as a lock if if the co-Itrade happens it's hard to would just appear fact of co-I injury wise and availability but he's coming off his best offensive season in a long time I think there's a lot of stuff and he almost seems in co-I fashion a little bit more excited this season like the fact they've saw him at Blue J Games this year is kind of like oh like it's almost like he's ready to there's something a little bit of a the slightest vibe change in that way where I'm looking at it going like

1:13:56wow that's pretty impressive so I think Toronto is a team that's gonna be really impressive if that co-Itrade goes through well and so you're talking we're talking is if you're pencil it in top six if you look for a force to pick would be New York Boston Philly Detroit Cleveland Toronto a top six that does not include a team that was maybe an injury away from go at least going toe-to-toe in game seven of the NBA finals like a year ago basically and it doesn't include the heat trading for Janus and so maybe that is the top six that we're outlining and it's it's gonna be more chalky than we expect but it's hard to discount the heat and the Pacers and the magic they just they do grind they just grind and grind and grind and they grind their way to a respectable number of wins the Hawks I think are a little bit more volatile and interesting I mean they're gonna be interesting but I it's just a tough it's a tough field in these all right so that's that's interesting Boston and Philly are kind of

1:14:56the swing teams but the talent is the talent and I'm optimistic about both relatively so okay last one more customer we're gonna start doing awards previews and I gave you the most in the weeds award to talk about most improved player I have like 15 aims written down but here's how we're gonna do it I did this last year too I made you pick one player type from the following categories who could feasibly win most improved player player type number one a traditional most improved player typically third fourth year guy gets a bigger role makes a big leap those are the sort of classic central casting ones category number two out of nowhere deep cut wow that guy improved that much and I barely even thought about him most improved player and player type number three star player who butts his way into this conversation because he makes a big change do his game or just has another leap in him and my example from last year that I picked and boy did it not really work out with Chet Homgren all right so let's go category number one who's your central casting most improve

1:16:01a player it's gonna be Brandon Miller from Be From Charlotte I think that's the the guy who you just described it to T when you described central casting right third four year player he's gonna get a bigger opportunity now with Lamello you know gone he's gonna get more reps on the ball he's gonna show more you know what he can do with the ball on his hands more often they're going to need him to do a lot more offensively I know they have co co co be white to help them with the playmaking and stuff but they're all gonna have to step up their playmaking level another notch and I think that's the stuff we're gonna start this he meant we saw flashes from him last season where I was like damn like you know there was the three-headed monster and in in in Charlotte but you know Lamello was the center head and and was the guy kind of getting everybody going con got all the hype with with Ricky you know the run for Ricky of the year and everything like that I think he kind of Miller got lost a little bit in the shuffle that stuff but I think he showed enough for me last

1:17:02season with the way he's playing and what I think is going to come especially with the playmaking I think that's gonna be the guy that's gonna have the best you know is central casting for me to win most improved I don't I'm betting you don't know this he is on fandall has the best odds of winning most improve player plus 800 which is not great odds he was on my list my short list for this category I just think I'm look I'm very optimistic and I've said before charlots surge last year coincided exactly with Brandon Miller getting healthy now he's still dealing with the shoulder thing in the offseason but getting healthy and getting a consistently available 25 and 3 20 points 5 rebounds three assists last year my hesitation with selecting him was you know a lot of the voters are just stats driven they're not going to watch 40 Hornets games or is that's going to jump that much from 25 and three they'll jump a little but like if it's 22 6 and 5 and the team has a

1:18:08worse record this year is he is he going to be the odds on favorite so here were my central casting type candidates Brandon Miller and I eliminated a lot of guys so forgive me if you guys not mention that doesn't mean I didn't consider him but these are like the finalists Brandon Miller a Sar Thompson who was my pick last year and actually I believe so I'm scoring average decline so still room for him a Tygerome quietly average 20 a game for the Grizzlies last year when he played camp Spencer and other Grizzly Kaleau where I think you know like like yeah juicy potential traded to a team where he's going to get a lot of opportunity he's one of the odds on favorites Terrence Shannon Jr. Case and Wallace probably going to start for the Thunder average only 80 game last year like what's unlocked there Dylan Harper Steph Castle those are the sort of central casting ones I'm going to go I'm actually going to go and get my first pick was going to be a Sar Thompson again

1:19:08I'm going to go with Walker Kessler because he's obviously going to have a spotlight on him he's going to get all the opportunity in the world to finish dunks and lobs and and offensive rebounds he's an elite offensive rebounder his career high and points per game in a season that counts like last year's five games I'm just wiping away yeah is 11 points a game and his defense is going to that team's going to sink or swim defensively to some degree like if it even shreds water it's going to be because Walker Kessler is an elite wind protector I'm just going to go Walker Kessler I it's not a really a big center award it's more of like a scoring award but I'm going to go Walker Kessler that's going to be my most improved player central casting pick okay under now the fun one the under the radar where the hell did he come from pick mode to kill so I want to preface this with I've dabbled a little bit with the Fiva Euro qualifying games I thought you're going to be like I've dabbled a little bit with hallucinogenic drugs and this is what you might end up saying yeah that might

1:20:13be code for that Zach but I don't know if you caught what uh fellow larcen has done over the past few games it's a great it's a great name it's on my list it's it okay okay so I I was worried coming into this like oh Zach might be like I can't have mong anymore um you know you dropped 31 you know just the other night you know they're playing the past two days he's averaging about 27 points the game look at small sample sizes two games right you know he 40% from three doesn't mean anything it's four for ten but I think there's an element of with where he's going to be in Miami and with all the attention going to be drawn to the honest especially honest describes like there's going to be opportunities for him on those kickouts to get going and they're going to need him on the floor like this team you know I know they added clay I know they they they're they have some guys but I think they're going to need him on the floor this season to really kind of step up to that most improved level for them to crack the top six and make me look stupid for not

1:21:17even mentioning them when we're talking about them I think it's going to be a thing where they need him to kind of step up that way I think the opportunities are going to be there it's he's kind of take advantage of it because all the attention is going to be on yannis the attention is going to be on bam I know spacing is going to be a little bit wonky there but they're going to need him to kind of open things up on those second drives on kickouts and things like that and respond properly on that so for me I just went a little bit I went with him I like what I saw with what he's been doing with Sweden that's that's my out of the the the dark horse you're not alone in dabbling with Fiba I've obviously been what Croatia's offense has been off the charts explosive um Bill sent what I thought was a disturbing text yesterday to a group chat saying he was watching Sweden France and that he thinks uh he thinks that Evan forney is going to play Fiba basketball until he's 50 years old he's like the LeBron of Fiba I was like I'm a little worried about you

1:22:20fellow Larsen so so he's on my list the reason I didn't take him for this was he he went from five points again to 11 and a half last year I'm not sure how much that jumps but you're right they're going to be on the radar a lot more I have two things about him or it's number one I think he was penciled in as a starter before they got clay and now I'm not sure about that in fact I I could see them starting clay because they just his shooting is so essential to just bam and yana's working and they need maximum defensive coverage for him and that's when both those guys are on the floor but there's a world in which he ends up supplanting clay as a starter for sure um he's also extension eligible uh right now actually and I think wouldn't surprise me if there were some discussions about that uh as the heat sort of start gathering for training camp he's on a non-guaranteed deal he's a restricted for agent uh next in the offseason if they don't extend him I think he's his max extension would be whatever it is 140% of the league average salary or something like that um

1:23:20I could see them being having some interesting talks they really but that he really like him he's tough he's a heat guide it's a great pick my under the radar pick and I went I went pretty far under the radar to a team that I don't think is going to get a lot of attention of any kind this year uh I just took notice of what Usman Jeng did for the box last year after the thunder release timber whatever happened and the bucks picked him up 30 games for the box 20 starts 11 points a game for a guy who basically like didn't play for the thunder and was sometimes in the g-league I have to imagine the bucks are going to um give good all their young guys maximum opportunities once the season spirals out of control for them which it will uh and they did just resign him this summer three years 15 million 16 million something like that um he's gonna be my pick I could I could see him but he's a whoa he's averaging 16 a game wow that's exciting so that's my deep cut pick yeah no I think that's a very much deep cut it wasn't on my radar I wasn't thinking dang but like that's I mean that's what was coming with most improved right like were these

1:24:22the kioxander walker who won it last year I don't know people were ready for him to be as good as he was on the ball and and really kind of explode the way he did in it land I think those are the things it's the biggest thing is opportunity it's getting the reps and the chances to do it and I think that's going to be a big one there so yeah I like it that's why I think case in Wallace has a real chance that you know because on the one hand of jelon Williams wing jelon Williams is healthy and chats healthy and jays healthy there aren't that many shots but now he's gonna start I think with dork gone we all know what he is defensively and all defense level guy if that just bumps up to like 14 a game and the thunder wins 66 games and use the full-time starter I could see that being the case okay the fun at the most fun category I almost had funnest which my daughter does to make me angry because I correct her grammar she's she's actually transitioned to funnest just to really oh wow the the star already established star who you could plausibly see being a candidate for

1:25:24this award I'm gonna go with Evan Bogley he was not on my radar that's a good one tell me why because everyone's a little down on him maybe that's why that's part of it right everybody's incredibly down on him he didn't have the season that were what we saw two years ago from Bogley you know in Kenny accident it really looked like he had unlocked him and this is obviously before the hard-in-trade but grab and go attack on the in transition facilitate the offense even at times and go to work from there you know one big thing we talk about especially with these sort of this type of archetype of what we're looking at what have you added to your game what if he comes in and it all of a sudden is knocking down threes shooting him at a high cliff and knocking them down at the point where we're going nuts but also if he can tap into what he was two years ago where he's you can facilitate offense through him a little bit take a little bit of pressure off part in a little bit of pressure off a Mitchell during the regular season I think there's a legitimate case to be made that he could have a chance at most improved obviously the three point shooting would be a big part

1:26:26of it as well but I think if he can just go back to what he was two years ago I think there's a legitimate chance and he's one of those guys that we kind of look at going established star for the most part maybe I'm stretching the term star a bit but like I think that's a guy I look at going like yeah that's that's what I think is going to have a good chance at it and so that's a bold one I like that um I dare going to just going to be I talked a lot about them last week with Rob Mahoney because of the Watson trade they're going to be there's going to be some wrinkles to iron out offensively when the two bigs and Watson are on the floor and Hardin has to ball a lot and all that but I mean they're gonna they're gonna be very very good but there's just going to be some sort of wrinkles and roll definition to iron out but that's a good pick I feel very good about my pick I actually kind of expected you to have the same pick as me for this um my expectations almost could not be higher for Scotty Barnes uh I think Scotty Barnes is the kind of stop now you might say he's above this he's a two time all star fifth and defensive player of the year voting last year

1:27:26he averaged 18 a game last year uh 51% shooting 30% on threes he actually averaged 19.3 the year before and 20 year before that so scoring dropped last year I was so um impressed with in almost in awe of his sheer effort level in the postseason against the calves now they they lost that series in seven he was the best player in the series defensively he's going to be a defensive player of the year candidate I mean he was just monstrous all season and in the playoffs he was legit terrifying defensively I think like we'll see one if if assuming the colliderate happens obviously collider will be the leading scorer on the team um they have like RJ Barrett is a borderline 20 point score I mean it will quickly is going to give you 16 to 18 again like there's not that many points to be had but if this goes from 18.7 and a half rebounds six assists on 51% shooting and then in a borderline like not exist in three point shot you know two point eight attempts to game 30%

1:28:30shooting if that goes to like 22.9 and six assists and the three ball comes up to league average and Toronto wins 51 games I first of all in general my expectation well it's going to be it's going to be hard like I was about to say I expect Scotty Barnes to make all NBA probably should have made it last year I mean if co-eyed gets to 65 games he's an all NBA player are the Raptors really going to have two but I would say like the Scotty Barnes I saw in the playoffs it like obviously the sheer urgent effort level is not going to be like that every single night over 82 games that guy is a no-brainer all NBA player with a bullet and quite surprisingly not going to get to 65 games again so I'm going to say Scotty Barnes makes all NBA and he's my pick for this for this designation yeah I think it's a good one because I think ultimately too when you have co-eyed on your team you need to have somebody that's the linchpin for everybody else right like that's what happened in Toronto last last time when they had him right it was really high-alowry and those guys

1:29:33and when they needed buckets they just went to Kauai for the most part but like he and Kauai took over and was phenomenal defensively in everything I'm not trying to poop who he did in that finals run but I think it's a level of like cool Kauai is going to go get his can who's going to set everybody else up in that way and I think that's an area where Barnes can really thrive in in that being that kind of that role in that sort of that they cog in the offense to make sure everybody else is getting getting in part of what they need to as well as him getting his that's a good one that's a real good one Zach and again like he said he was awesome in that seven game series he was awesome it was so much fun to watch I mean look to wrap this up the east is going to be just every game is going to feel really important in the east and we'll see how the season of balls right we could get to 40 games and there's a little bit more polarization in the savings than we expect but like at these 10-11 teams every time they play each other it's going to feel you're going to have this in the back of your head like this game actually kind of

1:30:34really matters and that's and that's exciting right mode to kill where are we going to see you this year what should we be looking out for well I got some stuff coming on bleacher report in the next couple days a couple of articles will be dropping over the the early part of September unless anybody has told me differently I'll be doing my stuff on mba tv on the weekends and and then we're going to go from there everything else is still up in the air the double dribble podcast on real GM network with Jared Dubin we're still cooking there we're going to start a season previews really soon actually starting I think today so we're going to have that stuff going and then I hopefully be adding stuff as the year goes and here on the zack low show we're back up and running twice a week we've been back on on Thursday with an episode on contract extension talks and all that stuff we're going to talk we're going to have some special sort of non-nba guests coming up and and start rolling out these awards previews like we did today with most improved player mode to kill you're the best thank you sir maybe I'll see you soon the Los Angeles go meds boo dodgers

1:31:36it will go dodgers and good luck to your meds I know you guys need it thanks buddy all right that's it for today's episode of the zack low show thanks to john kuzizki thanks to mode to kill thanks is always to Jonathan mike and billy on production and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the zack low show will be back on Thursday with a new episode looking forward to lots of other stuff that's going to happen in the mba contract extension sees now look all that stuff hope you enjoy it thanks again 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas starkisino or 18 and over in president dc Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 888 789 777 777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or is it md gambling help.org in amerland hope is here visit gambling help line m a dot org or call 800 327 5050 for 24 7s important Massachusetts or call 1 877 8 hope and y or text hope

1:32:39and y in new york for Louisiana call 1 877 770 7867