The Loretta Brown Show - 09-03-26 - Modern Dreamwork and You

0:00Good morning. Good morning everybody. Welcome to the original LaRetta Brown Show radio to open the heart, heal the soul, and awaken the consciousness. And as always, good morning, Mr. Benny Mathers, my right hand, me. Oh, I can do it. I'm here, no, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. I gotta join you in that one. So I have a little things that I do. These are, you know, LaRetta telling me the audience. So before every radio show for years, I do 40 jumping jacks. I don't know why. I just started. You do? Yes, I do. And if you don't get the blood flowing. Have I known this? I don't think I know. No, but probably not. Oh, okay. That would explain a lot though, actually, because I can't really get a hold of you before the show sometimes. And you're like, chime it. You'd like click in right when we're like, ready to go on the air. I'm like, up, that makes sense. She's probably like 35, 36 of the jumping jacks. So, okay, I'm getting it again. And it's gotta go tell. I have to do all of them.

1:01Well, it's like, I can't shortchange yourself. No, you can't charge. You can't just put this morning. Now I was like, it's one of those mornings. Two. All right, LaRetta, let's do this. Come on, put it up there. That's funny. And I got to thinking about, maybe you know the answer to this. You know, some people do, let's see, when your arms go up the legs go out, then somebody else said you have to do it the other way. When the arms go up the legs are together and you do it the other way. Oh, like offsetting it? Yeah, like offsetting it. Anyway, if anybody knows how you're supposed to do it. I mean, it's not hard, LaRetta, but if you want to be like coordinated or uncordenated, I guess, or try something new, maybe to get your brain working in a different, you know, reason, I mean, I can understand that, but I would just do the traditional out and in and just keep it simple. Well, I feel like if I'd my feet are leaving the earth and coming back, I'm doing pretty good. I think so too. Exactly.

2:01Anyway, now everybody's gonna go, they're gonna know these things and wonder what's going on. But anyway, I do have to say, you know, your beautiful wedding is coming out. Yes, it is. It's in the air. Yeah, we're excited. Timber. Yeah, full time. We're wrapping up a lot of the things, just some minor things still. Nothing too major as far as we know. But yeah, we're super thrilled and excited for it. I am excited for you. And it's a beautiful time of year to do it. Yep. Beautiful time of year. Betcha. Yeah. And for everybody looking out their window, we actually got rain. I'm so excited. It actually rained, port thirsty earth. And also, I hope everybody got out last week and saw the lunar eclipse. I was out on the sidewalk in my fuzzy slippers and my bathroom, taking pictures of it. And if you're on my Facebook page, you saw it. So anyway, I just have a vision right now of how that happens right now. Like you and your fuzzy slippers in your robe

3:02and like turn around in my robe. I want to see the eclipse or whatever you want to, like, yeah, I kind of feel, I kind of feel like we're going out. People are driving by and they're like honking their horn or still there is another reason why. Yeah. Okay. Now you know what I'm thinking. Okay. Yeah, exactly. I'm pointing to the moon and they're like, yeah, don't stop. Just taking pictures of herself in a robe. Yeah, that's right. There she is with the moon. There you go. Oh, it's right. Artistic. Very artistic, yeah. But I had to see it and here in Seattle, it was cloudy and then it cleared up. And we had like a 97% full lunar eclipse, which was absolutely stunning. And then after that, the clouds came in. So yeah, there are a lot of amazing pictures out there. I hope you enjoy stuff like that because I do. Yeah. So and lots of other stuff going on in the news. Let's, wow, let's get into.

4:05Oh, astrology. I guess I have to have some announcements, very few announcements today. The next month's class for women, the Temple of the Divine Feminine is gathering Saturday, September 19 at Rakyawin races or via Zoom, please join us. And that'll be just before the fall equinox, right? We're going into fall. And the September gong bass will be Saturday. Did you say gong? Yes. Yes. I did. Thank you. I'm so happy now. Still here. Yeah, absolutely. On the job. Doing it. I'm at the gong still here. Not like me. The gongs are here. They're ready to go. All right. They're like, is anyone here? Yeah. So Saturday, September 26 at 10 a.m. and 12 30. Last time I checked, there were still some openings. So do sign up early because they, they always sell out. So advanced registrations recommended, even if you're going to do September or October or November

5:06or December last Saturday of each month, take a look. And then I do have some Friday nights coming up because people have requested that and also some crystal bowl concerts coming up. So take a look at that. The Sacred Egypt Pilgrimage is happening. October 13 through 26. I still have one room available if you want to come by yourself or bring a friend. And you will need to contact me very soon because I can't believe it's like only a little over a month away. And it's going to be a fantastic trip. I'm really looking forward to it. And I'm going to say this. I quite often when I have these events, they're quite often women heavy, like a lot of women come out and do it. But I actually have half, half men and half women on this trip. Like I got a bunch of men coming along. And you don't discriminate. You're not discriminating. No. I love it. No more the merrier. No matter what. No more the merrier. It's great. And they bring this beautiful energy that we need.

6:08We need the balancing of the masculine. And hey, what's wrong with that? Nothing. Nothing's wrong with that. Nope. That I have to say. Yeah. So welcome to September. We're beginning the month integrating the powerful Eclipse energies of August. And immediately the astrology is saying, don't rush the integration. On September 1, Mars and Cancer squared Saturn retrograding aries Mars once movement. And Saturn says, wait, wait a minute. Is the foundation strong enough? What are you building upon? And this can create delays, resistance, or stop and go energy. But sometimes the obstacle isn't telling us no. Sometimes it's asking us to become more intentional before moving forward. Mercury in Virgo. Mercury in Virgo. Well, is also active. Careful thinking, editing, planning, and adjusting. I've got a lot of people cleaning their houses.

7:08Thank you, Virgo. And helping them, even somebody yesterday was like, Loretta, I think I'm going to try to balance my budget. I was like, what? Who are you? Wait a minute. Hold on. I mean, the holidays are coming up. You've got to get ready. So yeah, you've got to be prepared for it. I feel like Christmas is in the stores now. So there you go. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yeah. And for those that don't know, you know, Rakyawase, this I have a waiting area that's turned into a little store. And it's got all kinds of wonderful goodies in there. And on Saturday at the Gong Bass, I think they just about cleaned me out of inventory. And asked if I could please stock up for Christmas. So I've got some beautiful things coming, you know, crystals and the organized pyramids and all kinds of, well, you know, singing bowls and tuning forks and all kinds of stuff over there. So stop by. It's a self-serve store. And because I'm busy, you know, working with people, I'm not going to wait on you. But it works. It works. We're just making appointment and shop while you're there,

8:09right? So Mars is in cancer. And it's bringing our attention to home, family, roots, belonging, and emotional inheritance, emotional inheritance, energetic inheritance. Well, Saturn and Arias is asking us to take responsibility for who we are becoming. And so believe it or not, the sky is asking us, what have I inherited from the past? And what am I now responsible for doing with it, which just is almost the perfect introduction for my guest, Linda, this morning? And on the morning of our show to this morning, the moon is completing its journey through Taurus before moving into Gemini later today, where it will approach Uranus, Gemini is communication, stories, memories, information. Uranus can bring sudden awareness, unexpected connections. So pay very close attention over the next day or so

9:10to unusual conversations, memories that are surfacing even dreams that might leave you wondering, well, what was that about? Or where did that come from? Or if you have dearly departed loved ones or ancestors or people from the past showing up in your dreams, you might really want to pay attention to that. Meanwhile, the sun and mercury are both traveling through beautiful Virgo. Virgo wants us to examine, discern, and understand, and it always asks what's useful, what needs healing, what pattern have I been repeating without realizing it? And what can I let go? Venus is in Libra. Mars remains in cancer. Jupiter is in Leo, while Saturn and Neptune in Areas and Pluto in Arequarius are retrograde. So for you astrologers out there and want to be astrologers, you get to take look all those up because there's a lot

10:10happening. As the week continues, there's an interesting movement from reflection toward expression. Because Jupiter and Leo reminds us that even when we're examining the past, we're not meant to live there. They're still creativity, heart, and a future, asking to be lived. And don't you want to choose life? Yes, you do. And September itself carries a larger theme of reassessment and reset. Around September 10th, excuse me, we have several significant shifts, including you're in a stachyening retrograde in a Gemini followed by the Virgo new moon later. And later in the month, the sun moves into Libra and turns our attention to relationships, balance. And September is going to culminate with a full moon in Areas on the 26th, it's powerful moon. So for this week, the message is very simple, slow down, long enough to recognize the pattern before trying to change it. And that's the perfect platform for my guests.

11:10My guest today is Beno Misho before. I love it when she's on my show. Linda Yale-Shiller, MSW, and LICSW. She's an international teacher, a psychotherapist, and a dream-work specialist extraordinaire with more than 40 years of experience exploring dreams, trauma, mind-body healing and spiritualization. She's the author of Modern Dreamwork, PTSD, and ancestral dreaming, healing generational wounds through dream work. Linda is trained in EMDR and Energy Psychology. She's a professor emeritus. And I say that Linda, emeritus. Thank you. At Boston University School of Social Work and Simmons University, Linda is such a joy and delight to have you on my show. Welcome. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be back. And I have to say, Loretta, as I'm listening to your intro

12:15pattern with Benny, I just laughing out loud over here. You guys have so much fun together. It's great. We know how to start today. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Fuzzy slippers and all. He's a capper. That's right. Fuzzy slippers and all. That's right. That's right. I always give Benny recognition on my show because without him, I wouldn't be here. And we've known each other for quite some time now. Longest relationship, I would say. For everyone that lists. Yes, absolutely, with no fights. No, I would never had a fight. At least we didn't admit it. Never. Correct. Never did it. Why are you little? We could start right now. Always feel like Benny is like my brother or a sibling or something. Like we've known each other a long time. But anyway, we think of that kind of energy that's sitting on a Jeep. Yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, yeah. And we could fight. Yeah, we could. Yeah, we could do it. But we'd always make up.

13:15So Linda, let's get to you. You've got this wonderful book, ancestral dreaming. Heal generational wounds through dream work. And I want to begin with something from your work. You say we are the dreams of our ancestors. The time traveled embodiment of their hopes for the future. What does that mean to you? Thanks. Thanks for starting with that. We are not singularities in our own lives. We are connected with the people not only around us, but with those who came before us. So we inherit more than the color of our hair or our eyes or our body type. We inherit history as well.

14:16So we inherit both epigenetically, meaning not from the genes or above the genes. I learned that we're looking it up from my book. Epa means above or on top of, epi. So whatever our parents, our grandparents, our great grandparents have gone through, they are passing down to us through their reactions to their environments and their emotional responses that get passed down generation to generation. And depending on what their lives were like, they had hopes and dreams for what their descendants' lives would be like. If we were lucky and they were lucky, their hopes and dreams were more the same. If they were not so lucky, if they struggled, if they suffered, if they went through trauma, if they have wounds, their hopes and dreams were, may it be better for my descendants? May this wound be healed? May we leave this place of pain and move

15:16into a place of hope and peace? And that's what we're inheriting, those hopes and dreams from them. You know, that's beautifully said. So many people in today's rather unsettled world are very concerned about the future. And people of our age, wisdom women. That's right. That's grandmother's, right? That's who we are. But we look out at the world and we realize that we've lived through so much, right? We've lived through so much. And then what it does the future hold. And I think that anybody out there listing will go yell, Redda, that is something I've been wondering about. So as we are in the middle of this, I'm gonna say a timeline, not quite the right words, but you're gonna get what I'm asking. My ancestors came before me. They went through this and this and one lifetime

16:17at a time, at a time. And then there's me or you. And then it continues on after us. That's right. So talk about, I'm gonna say the power of now, what it is that is happening now and how your book ancestral dreaming fits into that. Mm, that's a very well phrased question. So I'm gonna make a connection between what you said and dreams because you sort of led me right there. So in our dreams, why don't we have a dream? If you think about it, it's always now. In the dream, we're not dreaming yesterday, this happened or tomorrow this will happen. It's always now in the dream. So our dream world contains the extreme noun of this moment, whatever this moment is. So, and we bring that with us because we have time markers in our dreams

17:18and we have dreams that are from our own past, from our ancestors past. We also have dreams that peak around the corner of time to potential futures. So even though the dream itself is happening right now, it gives us hints and associations and threads connecting us forward and backward in time. So if we're tuned in and we learn from the past, then we can pass the learning to the future and what is also really important then in doing the dream work and in doing ancestral work, which is what is actually ours personally to carry? And what is not our to carry? What are we kind of schlepping along from generation to generation that actually never happened to us? But we inherited the emotional response, we inherited it through parenting, we inherited it through warnings over the years,

18:21be careful of this, be careful of that, that may not be what our life is about today. So part of this work is both going forward and backward in time and not only receiving the wisdom and the blessing of those who came before us, but offering the healing for the difficulties our ancestors went through so that we don't have to keep carrying it. Because once they get the healing they need, then we're a little more free and clear to not pass that pain down from generation to generation. Oh, you said so many juicy things right there Linda? Juicy. So let me go back there. So I was thinking when you were talking about how, yeah, this stuff is passed along to us and we, and then we repeat it. Like I come from a large family and I can remember

19:24thinking to myself, oh, I'm never going to say those things my mother says. That's right. And then I'm saying them. That's right. You know, like now listen here, Missy, don't get too big for your bridges. You know, just remember who you are. And I got to think about that the other day because I saw a couple of sisters recently and we were reminiscing and you know, what, where does that come from? Don't get too big for your bridges, Missy. Remember your place. That's really filled with a whole lot of ancestral woundedness. And then the thing about money or poverty, you know, I've got Irish roots, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So talk a little bit and you said something in there. You said when our ancestors get the healing they need, okay, you need to tell us how this works. Okay. Sure. Thank you. So I'll do it backwards. What we, what I've learned in doing this research again

20:26is that we literally are present inside of every egg, our potentiality is present inside of every egg our mother had before she was born, right? All the ex-albumen ever has are in their body. Well, she's still a fetus inside of her mother. So, and all the eggs our grandmother had were already present when she was a fetus inside of our great grandmother. So at a very sort of literal level, that genetic inheritance, we were there when our grandparents were alive. We were actually there in potentiality in those as of yet unfertilized eggs. So, so there's one piece. And then the question is, what did our parents, our grandparents, our great grandparents go through, both in our sort of the biological sense?

21:27And who did we live near with or around who may have influenced them or influenced their life that might not be our biological relatives, but are still our relatives who parented us, who mentored us, who mentored our parents or our grandparents? This is particularly important also when we're talking about families where there's adoption. So my daughter is adopted, but she could not be more our daughter as if I had carried her. So in addition to those eggs getting passed along, it's what kind of environment do we grow up in? What kind of parenting did we receive? And we inherit that too. And my daughter will say things literally like, oh, I inherited this from you or inherited this from dad. And she means that literally, even though we don't have shared genetics. And I hear things, just like you said, I hear things coming out of my mouth. It's like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm saying that. My mother used to say that. And I hear my daughter, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse,

22:30saying similar things. Like she has a mom who's a psychotherapist and a teacher and a dad who's a physical therapist. So I hear her sometimes. I don't think she even knows it. Repeating things that I've told her when I have like my therapist slash mother hat on. And then later I hear her saying something similar. And I'm thinking, oh, good for you. In addition, there's the land we live on. The land we live on, here in Seattle. I'm in the Boston area. But where did our ancestors come from? Our connections with for you, Ireland, for me, my grandparents were mostly Eastern Europe and Russia. What about that land where sometimes our hearts are buried, but our bones, the bone, literal bones of our ancestors may still be there. How are we still connected with that land? Because that's an inheritance too. And when we think about and talk about healing back and forth

23:30across time and space, we're thinking about the land as well. But what was happening on the land then? What's happening on the land now? What does she need? What is guy in need from us as well as the people in our life? So I didn't answer your question in our real life. Yeah, you could work in there. How do we do this? There are a number of different ways. And we can get dreams and we can get visitations from our departed relatives spontaneously. Where we can connect and find out how are they doing and what's going on for them over there, whatever you think over there is on the other side of the veil. And we can also invite and invoke this connection so that we can purposely reach back and connect and find out, are they OK? Are they still struggling or suffering? And if so, we can then send directed healing, whether it's

24:32raky, whether it's other forms of healing, whether it's cabala, whether it's energy, we can send that back through time and space to the place where it's needed its source. I love that so much. I really do the idea of, well, that we're not really bound by time and space and distance other than our concepts of that. But there's this continuum. That's right. I have always believed, I think, even before I knew I believed it, that I am like that pebble you throw in that pond and that I affect the space around me and the people around me and it goes backwards and it goes forwards and it goes up and it goes down, right? It's a great analogy. And I may have actually written about it or else I've thought of it since then. When whatever the original, let's say, we're talking about a traumatic event, falls into the pond, that's the pebble that falls in.

25:34And then it ripples, right? Each ripple goes to another generation and then the ripples themselves eventually hit shoreline and then it affects what happens on the shore as well. The reeds might wave in the reeds as the ripples hit them. So the synology really is fitting. Well, and I think the greatest work we can do is the work on self, you know, our own self. But this greater realization that it is, man, it is going backwards in time and forwards in time. It is changing the whole thing, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say, probably people listening to your show aren't skeptics, but just in case there are any skeptics who are listening and they say, oh, that's ridiculous. So that's just bunk. Well, modern science is catching up to what we've known instinctively and what indigenous and native people have known for a long time. All we need to do is take a look at quantum physics.

26:36And you don't even have to do a very deep dive. You can just do a little shallow dive if you think about quantum physics. Quantum physics is telling us exactly what this wisdom tradition has been seeing for a long time. Yeah, it's true. It's true. As time goes by, more and more is coming out to what I call my woo-wooness to show that it's actually not so woo-woo, right? Exactly, exactly. And my hope, and I'm sure yours as well, is that it won't be shoved off to the side as woo-woo and can be incorporated into how we live our lives and heal our planet. Yeah, I had someone on my show recently who's very scientific, comes from very scientific background, who said that when he had gotten to the point where he realized that quote, pseudo science is actually a science, then it opened up the doorways of asking those questions that go beyond certain aspects. So, like, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

27:36And he's a guy that works with a brain. And so it's really great. We're gonna take a little station break. When we come back, we're actually gonna get more into the dreaming part of this and why dreaming is important. And of course, Linda's gonna give us all the goodies on ancestral dreaming and how we can actually heal ourselves and the ancestors. So, my guest today, Linda Yale, Schiller, her amazing book, ancestral dreaming, just go by during the break and then come back, yeah. Energy is powerful. It's all around us, mysterious, full of potential, directing positive healing energy to raise your vibrational rate through Raky can change your life. Raky Master, Loretta Brown, has relieved stress, sadness, anger, and even helped clients lose weight, stop smoking and end sleep disorders. Worldwide, people have sought out Raky Oasis.

28:38If you want help with your dis-ease, visit rakyoasis.com. Ternus Life's Energy. Visit rakyoasis.com today. Make it a great day. Keep your dial on alternative talk, 1150. Oh, that's a good song. Thanks, Benny. Welcome back to the original Loretta Brown show with my guest, Linda Yale, Schiller, author of ancestral dreaming. I hope you bought it during the break. And a reminder that these shows are archived. You can download them for free at the KKNW 1150 AM archives for the original Loretta Brown show. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them. I've been on the radio forever. And before some of you were born, maybe not so long. And we're also live on YouTube right now. We're on X, megaphone, iTunes, Spotify, podcast one, FoundaSum Pandora, FoundaSum Acuity, we're everywhere, right? Not an acuity, but what's the books that they audible?

29:44That's it. So anyway, yeah, FoundaSum there. I know, that's crazy. So during the break, Linda was talking about some things I went everything on the air, Linda. And I was actually gonna bring this up that you had an experience. Well, I'm just gonna let you launch in because you know where we're at. So, and it's about dreams because we wanna bring that in and a little bit of a strange connection between Linda and a person and the Ukraine. And I'm gonna take it away, Linda. Okay, thank you. So how did I come to write this book? Was sort of where we started the question and try not to make it too long of a story. A bunch of years ago, I'm a colleague of mine from IASD, the International Association for the Study of Dreams, Jose, was an American aid volunteer in the Ukraine, helping the Ukrainians deal with the effects of war.

30:44And he brought over my book, PTSD Dreams, to help them deal with their nightmares. And he contacted me and we started our correspondence. Well, he was over there, yeah, that one. And it was both fascinating. And I was very honored that he was using my book to help people in the Ukraine, A, just in general, and then B, for a particular reason. Because my grandfather was born in the Ukraine and Kiev. I don't know what country it was at that point in time, but my great grandparents took him when he was three and they had to escape pogroms. So they had to leave Kiev in that whole area because of being persecuted. Fast forward, you know, 125 years, I'm suddenly in a position where my work is helping to heal the people whose ancestors persecuted my ancestors.

31:48Amazing. So it felt like this incredible, it's called the Tikkun. It means a healing, like a, it's incredible healing of like full circle kind of coming around with this possibility of healing. So it was really very profound. And then two other things happen. One is that out of the blue, my first book, Modern Dreamwork, has been translated into Russian of all things. I never knew how that happened. But actually, it's, I don't know if anyone has this lives, but it's up in the corner of my shelf there, showed up in my mail one day. It's like, I don't even know what this is. I said, oh, this is Russian. And then finally, I looked at the bibliography and there was, oh, there was my bibliography in English. So I was like, oh my god, this is my book. So anyway, once we discovered that Jose and I, he then started to use that book to help teach the Ukrainians English. So it was very, very cool. So this is all going on and then I have a dream. Here's where the dream comes in and the state of the book. So I have a dream about Borscht.

32:48And Borscht is this, you know, Eastern European peasant soup and in the dream, I'm trying to teach people how to make Borscht. And I don't have the right ingredients. And then the chef comes and says, oh, no, you need up the shredder. You need this machine to shred the beads. And then you can make good Borscht. So I learned how and then I went back to the students and said, no, we got to start over. And they were like, no, no, we don't want to start over. I said, no, now we have the right equipment. We have the tools we need. We have to make the Borscht with the shredder. So that was the dream. And as I worked with the dream, actually, before I talk, you look like you were going to say something. No, no, I've got light bulbs going off. Keep talking. Oh, OK. So I worked with the dream both by myself and with colleagues and friends. So that's what a little drop in for doing dream work with others. Because we can't see the back of our own heads very well without a mirror. Even Carl Jung famously said that he needed to work with someone else to really get to the bottom or the meat of the dream. So when in the various layers of work,

33:49thinking, what is the stream about? So OK, Borscht. My ancestors are from Eastern Europe. They ate Borscht. So there's a connection. What is Borscht made of? It's made of beets. What are beets? There are red root that grows in the ground. OK, we got roots. We've got red roots growing in the ground to make this soup. That's what the core of the dream was about. Then we have the power where it's not working out right to make it in that way. So I need a special piece of equipment called a shredder to make the Borscht soup. So then I'm thinking, OK, one of the things we do with dream work is we make associations to what does this remind me of. And particularly if it's an unusual thing or unusual word, like a shredder, like what's a shredder or nowadays? We have food processors. So I'm free of so stating to shredder. And a shredder is something that, if I'm putting beets in, for example, it's going to grind up the food and make it edible.

34:53It's going to break down the beets into something that can be eaten, not a hard rock of a beet, and nourishing. So a shredder can help turn something into a nourishment that we can then use. So that's one side of a shredder. And then the other side is the word itself to shred or be shredded. And in our language, when being shredded, it's a terrible thing. It's like, oh, my heart feels shredded. You had a bad break up with someone. You're in a lot of pain. And we use that word, oh, I'm feeling shredded. So we have both analogies of what the shredder might be. And then at the end of the dream, I'm using the machine to teach people how to make good nourishing broth because now we have the right tools. So when I put that all together with my experience with Jose and helping the folks in the Ukraine, then it was like, I had my light bulb go off.

35:53And it's like, oh, this is a dream about how to help both my ancestors and the people who came after them, sort of on both sides of the point, of the people who were traumatized and suffered and the people who were doing the traumatizing. So that was the dream that was the seed, the root, if you will, of writing ancestral dreaming. I love that. And it also, anybody listening, I hope that you are starting to get the idea that Linda has done a great work. And the use of dreams and the dream space is purposeful for this kind of healing and also for this sort of exploration of things and to get even to get the messages, right? And they do come through. I also is, you know, because a lot of the thing with people is dream interpretation, like what does that mean? And you did a really great job right now

36:54as walking us through that dream to where you begin to understand, oh, oh, this is how we look at these things. Like what is that? Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, rather than it was just about, you know, beats. Right. And to stay in the vegetable family, you told me over the break that some of your relatives are from Ireland. So there's a whole history there with a potato family. And I've worked with people who have Irish roots, who have talked about this. And actually, one of the dreams that I am packing in the book is someone who, and this is actually a fun part of doing the dream work. Sometimes the healing comes through humor. So one of the dreams that a client of mine had was there were potatoes with their little eyes, you know, that were winking at her in her dream. And so she took, she laughed and she took that to mean, okay, so my ancestors went through this potato famine and then really struggled. But nowadays, wink, wink, I'm okay. I can eat potatoes and I don't have to worry

37:54that that's the only food I have. That's great. It's a great analogy. I love potatoes, but yeah. Yeah. So in this, you also shared, another event that I'd like you to share on air. I know we're kind of jumping around a little bit, but we're not going to have time to cover everything, right? That's how that is. And talk to us a little bit about what happened with this meditation and the fathers. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I was leading a workshop on ancestral dreaming at my dance camp. And that's another conversation about dance camp. It's something I've been going to for, you know, 40 some years. And I offered this workshop on ancestral dreaming and it was a lovely small group. It wasn't too too many people. And just by chance, everyone in the group wanted to focus on connecting with their fathers as part of the work. So I'm leading a guided meditation around,

38:55relaxing and getting into a meditative state and connecting with the departed fathers. However, they are hoping to connect with them. And because I'm facilitating, I'm peeking, you know, to make sure everybody's okay. One time I opened my eyes and I see this hawk, this big, big hawk does fly right here overhead. And I go, oh, thank you to the hawk. And I said, if this anyone else who'd want to join us, you're welcome. And almost immediately two more hawks joined the party. And we have so these three hawks circling us. And it's like, oh my God, that was a wow moment. And then just a minute later, I had my own sort of waking dream experience that I wasn't expecting. I'm awake, I'm facilitating this guided meditation. And I had both of my fathers who have both died show up. The father of my childhood, who, you know, my mom and dad, his name is Bill. And then the father of my adult life was my stepfather, whose name is Bud.

39:57The two of them show up behind my eyelids in this space and they shake hands with each other. To the best of my knowledge, they never met even in, you know, when they were both alive, but they shake hands with each other and they both say to each other, thank you for taking care of my children. I was like, I was so profoundly moved and then they gave what I call the, the straight white man hug where they kind of lean in the little, you know, cat each other's backs, but not get too close and then they went off. And so I'm way to wake and they both showed up in the middle of this group that I'm facilitating. And it was really just a very powerful experience of another way we might get these visits or connections with our departed loved ones. And some of the people in the group had like a lovely experience where they met their, their dads who they were close to and they missed. And some people who had struggles or difficulties or issues with their dad met them in symbolic or metaphoric ways.

40:58And then we had to do unpack the meaning of the metaphor, the symbol and then do some dream work around healing what this rock that came through meant in their dream. And how was that? So, father. I love this. So talk to us a little bit about the dream work itself, like the process, like for anybody listing that's like, wow, how do I start in this, you know, how do I start down this path? Where lead us in? So where do we start? Where do we go? What do we do? Okay. So to start with, if we all dream every night, we all have REM cycles, rapid eye movement, five to seven times a night, depending on how long we sleep. So a lot of people who say, I never dream, it's actually not true, it's us that they don't remember their dreams. So for starters, you have to want to remember your dreams. So starting with that intentionality, I want to remember my dreams, and so I can then work with them and understand them.

42:01Once we have the intention, we need to be able to have a method to remember them because we wake up, poof, they're like whispers of smoke, they're gone, right? You get up to go to the bathroom and up, dream is gone. You gotta write it down. You gotta have a little notebook, wow, you're bad. And as soon as possible, after you awaken, or even before you're fully awake, write it down, write it down, write it down. And what I say is if you absolutely can't write it and you have to use your device, your phone, or whatever, do that, but if possible, then write it down later because the physical act of writing activates and the movement in our body and activates the neural networks that help us better remember our dreams than just moving our fingers on a keyboard. So this is the device generation. And we have deep sleep dreams,

43:03and then we have dreams that are those in between zones, when we're not quite asleep or we're not quite awake, Carl Jung called them the hypnopompic and the hypnopongic zones. When you're waking up and you're sort of awake, that's a dream too, because it comes from the same place as our dreams. So don't discard those near dreams, write those down too. And then once you've written them down, spend some time sort of thinking about them, meditating on them, you can start with yourself. You have any immediate sort of hits like, oh, I think I know what this is about, or oh, this reminds me of that. But dreams come in multiple layers of meaning. So we peel back those layers one at a time to get to deeper and deeper layers of meanings. And we go as far as we can on our own. And that's when I say, if you don't feel like you've gotten all the juice out of that dream,

44:03talk with your friend, your partner, or therapist, whoever you're doing some dream work with, to get other associations and thoughts and questions that can take you places you might not have been able to go on your own. So, and there's lots and lots and lots of ways to do, quote unquote, do dream work. But a really super quick one thing I'll just mention now, so we have time for those six calls that you wanted to get to, is when you put your attention on the dream, without thinking too much, just from your gut, give it a title. Sometimes often the title will get to like the core, what Ernie Hartman calls the CI, the central image of the dream, that gives you the aha, oh, somehow or other, even though I don't know why I came up with this weird title, this has to do with my dream. And then to find out what the emotional narrative of the dream is, we have the storyline narrative, we have the landscape of the dream, and then what did you feel at the beginning,

45:06the middle of the end of the dream? Was it the same? Was it different? Did it change? Because how you felt from the beginning to the end of the dream gives you a hint of, is there work to be done here to resolve something or not? Was this a fun dream? Was this a confirmatory dream? Was this a enjoyable dream that doesn't need additional attention on your part? What about if you are what to set, like you really want to get an answer, you're setting an intention for something, and talk to us a little bit about that, like how do you set that up? Sure. So you're, Laura, to speaking about what we call dream incubation, where before you go to sleep, you spend a little time and you write down what you want some information about. You write in your journal, I really would like to connect with my grandmother. I'm really wondering whether or not I should take this new job, I just can't decide. Is this guy I'm dating the right one for me,

46:06or I might, you know, or is this like just Mr. right now and not Mr. Right? Like whatever your question is, including I'm having some health concerns, any ideas about what they are, whatever your issue is, write it down, write for one minute, write for half an hour, whatever your style is, but end your writing with a specific question, a specific as you can get. The more specific the question you end with, the more clear the dream that comes through will be to answer the question. Yeah. Don't despair if you don't get a dream or an answer you can figure out right away. If you're not used to doing it and you need more practice, it might take you a couple nights, or you might need to reframe the question so that your dreaming muse is clearer about what it is you're asking. But if you stick with it, you will get a response. Yeah, I want to share something and then I want to get into what I wanted to do, years and years and years ago.

47:09I was seeing this man and it was funny because I had actually asked the question, is this the person for me? And so I had this dream and there he was, and he's standing in front of me, and he was wearing an apron like he's cooking, he's got an apron, and then he's standing behind a table. And no matter where I went in the dream, he had the apron and the table between him and I. And it was like, oh, he's not, he's not my person. In that funny. Well, that's, oh, great. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting about that dream, Loretta, is on one hand, we might say, oh, he's wearing an apron and oh, he's going to be cooking for me and might be giving me nourishment. However, that table was always between the two of you and you and your wisdom knew with that man separation. Now to be, not to be confused with anything. And he wasn't serving up a meal. It was like, well, put the food on the table. No, apparently no. That's right.

48:09Yeah, none of these empty promises. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks. But I went to throw that out there for people listening, like giving people ideas of how it might come through. Right. Yeah, it might come through. Now in your beautiful book, ancestral dreaming, you have the six ancestral quisperes or the calls. And I wanted to go through this just super quick because we've only got a few minutes here. But talk to me just a little bit about those six calls. So I don't know if you want to list them. I have them here because I don't have them memorized, right? So the first one is, I am still here and you are not alone. Yeah. So originally, my book, I was going to call it, Shouts or Whispers, ancestral dreaming, but in their wisdom, the publisher said, no, that would be too confusing. We have to be clear about what it's about. So it became the title of a chapter instead. But so there are six calls. And the first one is the answer.

49:11And let me differentiate. There are dreams about our departed relatives and there are visits. So the visit is when we have this visceral felt sense that they're present, that they're in the room with us. We hear their voice. We feel their hand touch our cheek. And those are qualitatively different than a dream about. But there are six ways they might come through that I've identified. There might be more that you can find, but this is what I've figured out. One is, I'm still here. They're still here. They're not gone. They're just not living in their body in the same way anymore. But the essence of who they are and their spirit and their relationship with you is still present. It's what's very ironic is, like half an hour before you and I were on the show, I got this poem showed up on Facebook by Wendell Berry, who just recently died. And I pulled it up on my screen just in case it was relevant. Here's the first lines of this poem.

50:16The loved ones we call the dead, the part from us and for a while are absent. And then, as if called back by our love, they come near us again. They enter our dreams. Wow. And then the poem continues a little bit. Well, and you hit on something too. And I know a lot of people are like, I had this dream, was it a true visitation, right? Was it a true visitation? What is a marker of a true visitation versus they're just in the dream? Well, first of all, it's neither's better or worse. They're just different. A visitation is when we have that felt sense in our body, that that frision, that feeling of, if I just turn my head, I'll see them right next to me. Sometimes there's a physical sense of contact. Sometimes, like when my dad bud shows up, he's one of my most frequent flyers because he was also a mentor for me in my professional life and everything. So when he shows up, I hear his voice just like

51:19he's talking to me in the room. It's not a dream voice. It's his voice right there. And in a dream about a relative, we have a sense, oh, this person in the dream, that's my dad. Or this person in the dream, that's my grandma. But they're not actually who they are. And they might not even look like our great grandfather. They say, oh, this old man here who's sitting at this table, he's my grandfather, even though he doesn't look like him, I just sort of know that the character is supposed to be him. So there's more of an analogy or a metaphor involved in those kind of dreams. Yeah. So believe it or not, we're not going to get through this. Linda, I'll have to get you back because we've only got like a minute left. But I wanted to very quickly, you know, because these six ancestral whispers, I really want people to take a look at that. And since we, since I can't even ask anymore questions, I'll just have to have you back. That's all I want to do. Do you want me to quickly go zip what the six are in that?

52:19Yes. Well, to be compared. So yeah, go ahead. We've got like here. I'm still here. I'm still with you. The second is I'm here to offer you a gift or a blessing. Or sometimes an apology if it didn't happen in life. The third is, I've got some answers for you. You're struggling with a question. And I've got some advice for you. The fourth is, I'm still hurting. I died in pain with wounds and trauma. And I'm not healed yet. And I need your help. The fifth is, I'm carrying a grudge from years and years in my own life. And I want you to continue carrying that grudge. A whole different type of dream work we do when that answer comes through. And then the final, the sixth one is simply, remember me. Tell my story to your children and your grandchildren and your students and whoever might need to hear my story. So there's a lot more we can say about each of the six. But in our time, we'll just leave it as those six pieces.

53:22So Linda Yell, Schiller, thank you so much for being on the show ancestral draining. What's your website? It's Linda Yell Schiller. That's L-I-N-D-A-Y-A-E-L-S-C-H-I-L-L-E-R. And you've got something with Omega coming up? Yeah. If you want an amazing retreat and you're able to get to the Hudson Valley of New York State, it starts on September 14th at the five day retreat. Myself and my colleague, Kim Mascaro, bring our overlapping experience with dream work and our complimentary work with ancestors to a whole week of retreat space working with our ancestors. And for those who are observing the high holidays, this week happens exactly between Russia, Shana, the New Year, and Yom Kippur, the day of a time. This is a liminal time in space with a gates of life

54:23as is said in tradition, are wide open. And one of the things we specifically do this week is connect with our ancestors. So you've got liminal upon liminal going up. Well, thank you so much. And to Betty Mathers, thank you so much to the listing audience, lots of love, and love on yourself and each other and your ancestors. Thank you so much, Linda Schiller, and bye for now.