The Josh Hendrickson Show -- Episode 53

0:00Welcome in to episode 53 of the Josh Hendrickson show. I'm Neil McCready joined by Josh Hendrickson, chair of economics at the University of Mississippi, otherwise known as Ole Miss. Josh, I don't know what in the world will talk about, not much has happened in the last couple of weeks since we were together. So you're wearing your Cubs gear and you're very excited about spring training. I take it and it's, well, we break down position by position. The Cubs going into the 2026 season. Starting at the catcher spot, Miguel Amaya back competing for time with Carson Kelly. Your thoughts? How are you? Oh, that's too bad. I have to do bad. Alright, so I'm going to be fully honest here and set you up. I guess I knew something

1:00was up late last week, just sort of following the tea leaves, but I had the house to myself this weekend and I went over to my parents' house on Friday, had dinner with them, came back here, watched an NBA game, went to bed, and got up the next morning to let the dogs out, feed the dogs, et cetera, and did something that I regularly don't do, which has turned the TV on. And I can't remember where I was on, but everything was American war, basically, with Iran. And that's obviously been the news over the last 100 and whatever, 96 hours, 100 and some odd hours. Did you see this coming? We'll start with just general thoughts. Did you see this coming? What were your initial thoughts? What does this mean? Well, so I think on the last podcast, you were like, are we going to go to war with Iran?

2:03And I was like, I don't think so. So now look kind of stupid. I did ask you that right off the top. But the me kind of appreciate it. It's a rarity that I got one right. You got one wrong. I take strike one up for the Washington Generals, boys and girls. And I think I'm going to dispute this a little bit. I think I'm only partially wrong. So when you're the Washington Generals, you take what you can get. I wasn't. So I wasn't. I'm still not convinced that we're actually going to be involved in like a full scale war. I didn't sort of like strategic bombings and things like that. I wouldn't necessarily consider a war. And so far, I think that we've seen sort of limited actions in that respect, right? We're not seeing massive boots on the ground or anything like that. But yeah, I mean, I guess, I mean, it seemed to me it was clear that they were going to do

3:05something. They, you know, they simultaneously did less than I think a lot of people were concerned about, but they did weigh more than than I would have expected. And not just more in the sense of like quantity, but more in the sense of like immediate success at what they were trying to achieve. So I think in order to break this down, I think we got to take it like sort of part by part, right? So the kind of the place to start is if you're going to talk about war and you're going to talk about whether we should be there or something like that, like the first thing that you actually need to do is you need to kind of define terms and like set the stage. And so the argument that I always make on here whenever we talk about foreign affairs, whenever we talk about, you know, conflict abroad is wars should be fought to bring about peace. So you go to war because you feel

4:10like you are out of options. You feel like you can't live peacefully with these other people. And you ran out of all other options. And this is the last option. And you're, because you're doing so because you want to bring about a peace now. That sounds paradoxical, but I mean part of the issue here is is that not everybody agrees on what sort of they're the definition of peace is because we all have our own definition of peace, right? We all have our own definition of what we mean by that term. But first and foremost, like that's why you go to war. So you should always ask yourself, well, does that seem like that's what we're doing here? The other thing is that it's also very, very important that if you are going to go to war, that you have very clear objectives about what you're trying to accomplish. So when we talk about the sort of forever wars of Iraq and Afghanistan, the big complaint is, you know, like these things

5:14just went on and on and on and we couldn't extract ourselves from these situations. But that's less about tactics and less about strategy as it is about the fact that like we had no clearly defined objectives. You know, like people were making fun of, you know, Dick Cheney because they were trying to compare Trump to Cheney. I saw some people being critical of Trump who were trying to compare him to Dick Cheney where, you know, Trump was saying, oh, this is going to be a short term thing. And then they played this thing where Dick Cheney was like, oh, the war in Iraq is, you know, it'll be over in months. And people were making fun of that. And I was like, no, no, no, the war actually was over in months. Like he was not wrong about that. The problem is that there was, is that the objective that you were trying to achieve was like a complete abstraction, right? Like the, because in Iraq, there was a war and there, and there, then there was an occupation. And it's the occupation. Now, the occupation was war like, right? There was a lot of fighting that was going on. There were a lot of terrorist attacks. There were a lot of counter agencies

6:16and things like that, right? And so, and so the thing is, is that, but like that was separate from like what the initial war was. But again, the reason that we were there for so long is that we were fighting like the war on terrorism was a war against like an abstraction. Like you can't fight a war on an abstract noun. Like that, that you're not going to win. Like you have to, if you're going to fight a war, you have to have very clear objectives about what victory looks like. We never had those objectives in that case. So if we're thinking about Iran, these are the, these are the questions. In other words, not to interrupt, but the war on terror is different than the war on Vietnam. Right. I mean, well, and I think, you know, the, the important thing to ask yourself any time that you are thinking about going to war or whether you're already there is, okay, are we going to war to bring about peace? Like do we expect this to actually bring about peace or do we expect it to make things worse? Or, um, and our objectives clearly defined. And partly, like if your objectives are not clearly defined, then you can't really answer the first question either. Because

7:16if you're not defining your objective, how do you know that you're going to bring about peace if you don't even really know what you're trying to accomplish? Right. Right. So I think in this instance, first of all, like, is there a sense in which we're going to war to bring about peace? I think the answer is yes. Um, I think the answer is yes, because the problems with Iran are really problems that began, you know, decades ago. Iran has made it very, very clear that they want to harm the United States. You know, they, they, um, they have, you know, protests, you know, saying death to America and these kinds of things. Uh, you know, they have clearly done things to us. They've attacked, you know, they, they don't like some college professors here recently said to America as well, something I'm not really sure that's the deal. Go ahead. Sorry. And so the, and so the issue here is that, um, I think that you can make the case that that the, the regime in

8:22Iran was a threat to peace and not only to peace, but like the objectives that the Trump administration is trying to move the United States towards. Okay. So, you know, the Iranians have, have attacked the United States several times. They've, you know, they famously, you know, took American hostages. They fund terror groups that have gone and fought the United States, uh, both in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. And so they have, they, they seem to take every opportunity that they can to attack the United States. They have to do it strategically because they don't have the pure, um, military might, um, to go head to head with the United States, but they do have enough military might that they can, you know, be strategic and, you know, do harm to the United States, punish the United States, make the United States spend a bunch of money. And so you can make an argument that this is a war to bring about peace in the sense that, you know, for the, you know, it's been, you know, 47 years, um, of them sort of threatening the United States

9:35of being a permanent, um, thorn in the side of the United States, you know, having the United States as an about enemy and look a lot of the problems that we have as it relates to foreign policy, our problems that were created by previous presidents and previous administrations and the sort of things that they were trying to do. They, they made things substantially worse. You know, Richard Nixon was warning people about Iran when he was in office and later after he left office, he was extremely critical of, you know, Carter administration and things like that. And he was, he was on point about all of those things, okay? And this, you know, and Richard Nixon left the political scene long ago. So this is a, this is a longstanding problem. And then there's a question of nuclear weapons. Now, I have no idea where they are with nuclear weapons and none of us are going to, none of us are going to get the answer to that. The government's going to tell us that they were close, but what does close mean, you know, we're never going to

10:37know the answer to that. So the question is, is do we believe the government when they say that? And do we believe that that was a legitimate threat to the United States? Well, I mean, the last time that the government asked us to believe that, it's certainly likely that that was false. Now, was the government misled? Did they have bad information? Did they mis, did they intentionally mislead the American public? Were weapons hidden? I don't know. All these years later, it's, it's sort of like the Kennedy assassination. Your, your thoughts on it can vacillate from day to day, from, at least mine, you're, you're, you might have a completely different view. My, my, my feeling is that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but the George W. Bush actually believed that they did. He was wrong. We had bad intelligence as my guess. I could be completely off. And, but, but I do think

11:42our, all these years later, with three decades, two decades later, two and a half decades, I think your average American doesn't really know whether or not he or she should give the government the benefit of the doubt. Well, and so there's, well, so once you ask yourself the question, like, you know, is this a war to bring about peace? The other thing that you can then ask is, is now the time to do it, right? Because, you know, have you really exhausted all of your options? Are you really, like, what is the, like, why now, basically? Why, like, why does it have to be right now that we're going to do this? And so I think that is the question where I think a lot of the discourse on this where people are kind of missing it. I think the why now question is actually, quite frankly, the easiest one to understand. And it's the easiest one to understand

12:42because I think that the reporting on the extent to which the Israelis had gotten, had infiltrated Iran, all aspects of the Iranian government. It's a nuclear program. It's, you know, it's intelligence agency, these kinds of things, to the extent that they were able to infiltrate it, they had a lot of information that you could use that typically you don't have or that might be a once in a lifetime opportunity to use that information. And so if you have all of this information, well, then you have a strategic advantage over your opponent. And so maybe now is the time to do it because you want to do it before you squander that strategic advantage. The other thing is, is that it also happens at a time when the Trump administration, you know, people were critical of like the fact that they put out this kind of like foreign policy paper really outlining their vision

13:45about how like the United States is role in the world. And if you go through that, what they are really arguing was that the United States needs to kind of go back to an older US foreign policy where we are sort of in charge of the Western hemisphere, but we don't try to police the world and we try to get out of the rest of the world. And people are like, okay, and so now these same people are just bombing Iran. But I think the issue is is that you can't just withdraw from, like given that you're already around the world and involved around the world, you can't just withdraw from places that you that you've been like, you know, certain places you can. Other places you're going to have to your ability to withdraw is going to require eliminating an enemy. Well, yeah, because there's more chess pieces on the board. It's not as simple as Iran. It's just China. You have, you know, to some degree in North Korea, you've got their other,

14:51you're much better at articulating this than I am, but it's not as simple as just Woodrow Wilson neutrality. We're going to mind our own business. That would work if you believe that everybody else would mind their own business as well. And we could all just operate independently of one another, but it doesn't, that doesn't work in practicality. Well, and so if you combine, does that make any sense? No, it does. I mean, because if you combine, if you combine the administration's desire to kind of concentrate on the Western hemisphere and it's desired to kind of withdraw from these other conflicts and not be so involved in the Middle East and all these kinds of things, they have that desire, but it's easier said than done. Okay, but then you have all of this intelligence on Iran from the Israelis. That intelligence gives you the ability to have a strategic advantage to where there is an outline of a sort of plan of attack that you could

16:00take. That would simultaneously sort of minimize the risks involved to you and your people. While doing massive damage to them. And so I think that the fact that within 24 hours, the United States and Israel had taken out so many important people in the leadership of the Iranian government, the question is, is like, given that you want to get out of there, given that you want to kind of concentrate on the Western hemisphere, you have to do something about Iran. You've got this intelligence. And so if you use that intelligence, you can potentially cut off the head of the state, so to speak, right? And then that would allow you to kind of take a step back. Now, of course, there's a lot of contingencies there, but before we get into the contingencies, I think the important thing to recognize is that it's not incoherent what they what they're doing. They really do want to shift focus away from like governing the entire world

17:01and much more towards, you know, controlling the Western hemisphere. But they have these objectives, right? Like they want to hold China in check. They don't like the alliance between China and Russia and Iran. They don't they don't like the fact that Iran is not under the Ayatollah was not going to leave us alone. Like they were going to continue to fund terrorism. They were going to continue to attack us strategically. They're going to continue to try to develop nuclear weapons. And the other thing is too, is that the Iranian nuclear threat is different than like the North Korean nuclear threat. Like nobody believes that the North Koreans like actually want to attack us with nuclear weapons. The reason the North Koreans are so obsessed with nuclear weapons is that they believe that this protects them from us, right? Like that they think, well, if we have nuclear weapons, they won't attack us. They'll leave us alone. They'll never come they'll never come across, you know, the they'll never come across, you know, the Southern border with South

18:01Korea ever ever again, right? Like that. We have this weapon. They'll leave us alone. Iran does not want nuclear weapons so that we'll leave them alone. Like they have expressly said, like, you know, that they want to destroy America, right? They, you know, so I think that the idea, so so it's a completely different nuclear threat. And so I think too, is that, okay, you've got this country where they're not going to leave you alone. They're not going to give up on these nuclear plans. If they get a nuclear weapon, they're very likely to use it. And so, but you're trying to kind of withdraw and you're trying to kind of, you know, not be the policeman of the world, and you're trying to kind of focus on the Western hemisphere. You can't just go, all right guys, well, look, we're just going to leave you alone. Like we're going to kind of control the Western hemisphere. And like, you know, because first of all, like they're not going to believe that we're actually going to do that. Like they're going to say, okay, this is some strategic thing, right? Like they're, they're really trying to like make us get this false sense of security or something

19:03like that. There's no reason for them to believe it. And so when you look at it, I think it's a combination of a lot of factors. The Iranian regime was really, really weak right there extremely unpopular. You know, there's a lot, there's been a lot of recent civil unrest, the Iranians, you know, we, through the Israelis, we had tons of intelligence to know exactly where these people are, where they meet what they do, right? Like those kinds of things. And then you want to kind of withdraw. And so you want, but you need to kind of do something to kind of make it possible to kind of back away from, from that area. And so when you take the combination of those things, and then you take the idea that, you know, the purpose of war is to bring about peace. Well, if you can do all those things and you can do all those things successfully, then it might make sense to do it. However, then we get to the sort of next stage, which is kind of, okay, but what is the objective? How do we define victory? And, you know, sort of what comes next? Because even if you can

20:08cut off the head of the snake, you have to have a plan of what to do when the snake is missing a 10. All right, speaking of, we might jump around. We'll probably go forward, go backwards. There's a story in the Wall Street Journal this afternoon, within the last hour, Trump actively considering US role in Iran after conflict ends. President Trump is discussing with his advisors what the US role in Iran will be after the military conflict ends. The White House said, Trump said the campaign is going, quote, very well. In quote, earlier defense secretary Pete Hexeth said the US can carry out its air campaign for as long as it wishes. As he talked up Americans, Americans successes saying in American submarine, sank in Iranian worship in the Indian ocean. I did like the video of the woman, the propaganda woman in Iran, talking about how the bombs couldn't reach them and literally as the building she was in was bombed. Four days in, we have only just begun to fight Hexeth said the conflict in the Middle East continue to escalate with Iran,

21:12targeting sites across the region and Israel shooting down a jet fighter over to Iran. The White House said Spain will cooperate with the US ministry military. God, I can't read today, I'm sorry, but Spanish officials denied that the country's position had changed. Trump also plans to attend the dignified transfer of six Americans killed in Kuwait. Iran postponed plans to present the body of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Amani for public viewing on and on. What is what is the US role in Iran when the the fighting comes to an end? So I think this is the biggest question to ask because I think the first question we kind of answered and I think that you can make the case that that's an acceptable answer. The second question is what's the objective and I think that's really really what the important thing is here because if this is just a limited military campaign where you're doing strategic bombings to take out the leadership

22:15and then you're going to basically allow them to kind of figure out their future after all of these people are gone. I think that's the only course of action that you can really take here. You cannot get involved in nation building, you cannot get involved in sending troops on the ground, you cannot physically police the country and I say that both because like and I say that not only because it would be a mistake but because the country itself like you would not be able to to do it the the size of the country, the terrain, all of the different ethnic groups that live there. Very different place. I mean one of the big things that people need to realize is like we always think of the Middle East. We always think of like the Arab population in the Middle East. These are not Arabs. These are Persians. This is a distinct like ethnic group right at a distinct culture,

23:17a distinct history. They're very very different. Can I interrupt for a moment? I mean I mean this how many sun is considered the top contender for supreme leader at this point? I don't think I have to know a hell of a lot about these people to guess that he would want status quo. So at some point do you either run out of people to kill or is it just a matter of we're going to find a weaker version of this person to take that role? No, so I think what I think strategically what they're going to do is they're going to continue to kill the the leadership. I think that they took out the top leaders and now they're going after like the people who would rise to power in the absence of those leaders. I think that the objective here I think is this. The the Iranians have two different armies. They have like the regular army and then they have the revolutionary guard. The revolutionary guard these are the ideological people. These are the ones

24:19who share the ideology of the old regime. These are the people who you know help train and fund terrorism. These are the these are the true believers in Iran. The regular army is rank and file. Iranians it's not clear that they have strong allegiances to the current regime. I think that what they're hoping is is that if you can take out enough of the revolutionary guard leadership that that will then empower the regular army to then go kick out these people and essentially say okay you know what we are in control now. We are going to police the country until things settle down and then we're going to have some way of determining who's going to rise to power. I think that there are some people involved who want that scenario to play out and then they sort of want to bring like the Shah's son back to like you know retake you know retake the throne. I don't know that that's going to work.

25:23I don't know that that would be acceptable. I don't know that that's what the Iranian people want. Because the mistake with the Shah back in the 70s right is that there was an attempt to almost westernize Iran and and many of the Iranian citizenry resented that to the point that it opened things up for a revolution. Yes that's too simplistic. No I mean I think that's part of it and I think you know I mean look when the Shah died there was only one western leader who actually showed up at his funeral and that was Richard Nixon and and that was because Nixon and the Shah were very close but also because Nixon viewed Iran as like a very strategic ally of the United States precisely for the reasons that you described is like it could be a sort of outpost of you know something that looked a lot more like western civilization than than some of the other places over there and that having a sort of powerful leader who you know would advocate for that sort of way of

26:26life you know it was a sort of combination of like you know like I think the idea in the West was like that Iran could be this combination of like old Persian culture and like modern western culture you know and that that would provide some stability in the region. It's one of my first memories of my childhood in terms of international affairs I wasn't old enough to understand it at all not sure that I am today but I was nine when the Iranian hostage crisis occurred and I remember vividly still I remember vividly sitting with my parents in the living room my dad drinking is Miller light popping his bowl of popcorn and you watch these images of blindfolded Americans being stored I'm looking for sort of corralled through a crowd taking prisoner they were held

27:27prisoner for four hundred forty four days they weren't released until minutes after Ronald Reagan was inaugurated actually took the oath of office at the end of Jimmy Carter's term in was it January of 1981 it was a day-to-day crisis I remember like staying up watching the the images of those hostages landing at the Air Force Base in Germany where they had found their way to freedom and they would be brought home and all the images of them coming to the home their homes you know on the CBS evening news or the NBC nightly news I mean it was a a memory and as a kid you viewed Iran as this evil empire at that point yet you go back just a few years and before that Iran was viewed as as one of America's great allies and so it's you can see how for people that are a lot younger than me looking at this conflict it's it's probably a little confusing

28:29like what what is this what does it mean what is Israel's role in this what are we doing why there's there's a lot of questions that I think younger people have that weren't hell you weren't even around when that happened you know the the whole hostage crisis with Tehran and the the fall of the Shaw and you know I I guess they the Shaw was extradited I'm not sure I can't remember where he went but I just remember that being a very touchstone moment in American history well I think too that's the part of the issue here is like one of the themes of the podcast since the 2024 election really was pointing in Trump's direction one of the themes of the podcast has been basically that the Trump administration is just trying it to like fix all of these things that have been broken over the last several decades they're trying to fix the administrative state they're trying to

29:33fix foreign policy they're trying to fix the international monetary system like they're trying to fix all of these things it's a daunting task but part of the reason that Trump is even in office to begin with is is partially for these reasons right there's just so many things that are broken there are so many things that just aren't working that people are sort of desperate for somebody who will come in and fix them somebody who won't just promise to fix them and never actually do anything about it but that will actually try and I think that's a lot of what this is is this is another aspect of them trying to fix a problem that we have been dealing with for decades and that a lot of that problem in the first place had to do with incompetence I mean the reason that Iran was empowered in those early years is because of the weakness of the United States and the weakness of Jimmy Carter I mean Richard Nixon I mean the Nixon library the last couple

30:34of days has really been having a a field day just posting old videos of Richard Nixon talking about Iran because in every video that they post he just sounds like a genius because everything that he says like describes exactly what's going to play out in Iran over the next few decades or he's talking about the strategic errors that people like Jimmy Carter made and things like that and one of the things that he pointed out is like that Jimmy Carter like one of his major weaknesses was like that you know he's was like Nixon's thing was like yes like your your number one priority is to maintain like the the safety of the hostages but you do have other priorities right and so you want ideally to bring all the hostages home and you want to be able to negotiate that but also in the event that like you can't negotiate that like you have to think about using you know clandestine operations you have to think about going in and trying to get them yourselves and like things

31:34like that or like or doing things to punish the regime for for taking the hostages in the first place and the Carter administration was bad at everything they were not willing to take actions against the Iranians and they and and they made it their sole priority to make sure that the hostages were were safely returned but they couldn't get them returned and so they got the safe the safely part right it wasn't there a failed military operation that the planes crashed in the desert or something like that yeah I don't remember the exact details but they had like a but but again it was an incompetence problem right it was like the and this is and this is the fundamental issue is that and and this is why people are upset frankly the reason that so many people are upset about this conflict with Iran and I don't blame them is that we have gone through decades of presidents lying to us or just being otherwise incompetent as it relates to foreign

32:34affairs I do think that one thing that we have to keep in mind is that everything that Trump has done as it relates to foreign policy both in his first administration and now this administration he's done a lot of things where in the moment people are like this is a bad idea this is this is going to cost him his base this is going to ruin you know his legacy this is going to do all of these things and then what happens is like you know it's the old tweet that I always send you which is the guy being like oh I'd like to see old Donnie Trump wriggle out of this one and then he's and then five minutes later he's like well nevertheless and and that's the thing is I do think I do think that we have to take this into account Donald Trump whatever you think of him on anything else as it relates to foreign policy he has had very good instincts and very good decision making like when he has decided to do things he has done things that minimize casualties that did you know that that

33:40you know had a very specific objective and then they have accomplished that objective and then that's it right that they have just done the thing that they intended to do and then they stopped doing it I mean one of the issues too that makes it hard is that whenever you're talking about these kinds of conflicts whenever you're talking about going to war whenever you're talking about these kinds of things the other thing is like once it kicks off I mean you can't believe anything that anybody says and I don't mean that in like I don't even mean that in like a negative sense I mean like Donald Trump cannot come out to the American people and like explain exactly what the strategy is right because you know the Iranians also can access the television right so like you can't just so you have to be strategic in what you say sometimes you're saying sometimes you are communicating exactly what you're doing to the American people sometimes you are communicating something that you know the Iranians are going to hear and you want them to hear but it might not be true what were your thoughts on the New York Times I guess tribute to the Iatola Homanian after his

34:44passing he says with reading I'm sorry I'm sorry Washington Post same difference with this bushy white beard an easy smile Iatola Hamanie cut a more avuncular figure in public than his perpetually scowling but much more revered mentor and he was known to be fond of Persian poetry classic western novels especially Victor Hugo's Les Miserables but like the uncompromising Hamanie he opposed moderates efforts to promote political and social reforms domestically into secure rapprochement that he said that rapprochement from the United States it told you I said wow what a nice Hitler um it's always amazing to be the glowing portraits that they give of like the worst foreign leaders it and it's it happens every time like it's why well I think if there's a couple things there I think one is there's an innocence to this I think

35:44one thing is is like they don't want to be over the top sort of pro-America like I think there is this kind of desire to you know not lean too much on the the American perspective of this person it's it's it's almost like okay this was a human and like let's try to say stuff about the human the problem is is they did go way too far like you know the well and the human beings are really evil human well and see this is the thing is like I would be slightly forgiving of this like if you're if you're objective is like hey look our policy on obituaries as we're going to humanize everybody regardless of whether they were good or bad or whatever the problem is is like if you look up the obituaries for like Scott Adams or like Rush Limbaugh or like these people who are like just like right wing commentators like the you know the obituaries for those people were like well the most evil human being ever whoever who ever lived has died you know um maybe we want

36:47Scott Adams was along the lines of Jeffrey Dahmer there's a little much I mean his his obituary was ridiculous I mean the headlines for his for his obituary were like Scott Adams comma creator of Dilbert known for making a racist comment on the internet and it was like what you know dies at age whatever and you're like what in the world is is this you know and whereas you know these horrible evil dictators who have you know oppressed their people for generations you know the people who claim to care about the oppressed don't seem to care when it comes to these these people and you know part of it is I think that they're just trying to not be seen as like doing some sort of American propaganda but part of it is to be honest is that they share some of the critiques of these people about the United States I mean that's that's the honest truth is that they actually share some of these critiques and so they're willing to kind of give these people a little bit of a pass because it's like because they don't want to just well I would argue they

37:52do want to destroy America but they don't think of themselves as wanting to destroy America they was want to fundamentally change what America is. Well as Chase Parham said this morning on Blue Sky live and I thought he was right and for Chase it was a pretty rare foray into any type of political commentary and I don't mean there's a criticism at all it's me kind of avoids you but in this case he was dead on the the mainstream media is level of out of touchness with the American populace has come has been brutally evident in the reception that the U.S. hockey team has received since winning the gold medal in Milan they came home and they they went to the White House like a lot of hockey the 1980 team I think went to the White House as they should have you know Walter Mondale was at the games in Lake Placid he was the sitting vice president at the time um you know there was a criticism of of Cash Patel being in the locker room he was invited

38:56into the locker room by the players they took the call from the president of the United States who invited them to the state of the union and so they went and they were in some ways vilified by the national media the mainstream media and yet throughout the country as those players have returned to their NHL franchises to finish the season of course those franchises have honored those players or other players on other teams and they have received incredibly warm welcomes from I mean opposing fans cheering opposing players now that we're back in the heat of the NHL Stanley Cup chase right normally those players you know the the rangers fans aren't cheering a Pittsburgh penguin this time of year right there they're the enemy um but we're getting we're seeing those kinds of scenes and it just shows you to me how remarkably out of touch mainstream American media is with your every day American well and it's bizarre because we saw like um you

40:01know I mean I knew it would be fleeting but we saw like this modest course correction when Trump got elected in 2024 because he won so decisively that like you couldn't do the stuff that you did before because not only had he won again but he won decisively and so the stuff that they did the first time around you really couldn't do like they treated it like a fluke like that the American people really didn't want this but now it happened in like what do we do about it and it was sort of like okay but the next time around when he wins again you can't argue that it's a it's another mistake right like you can't argue that like this was just luck like and you know just not enough voters turned out in key states no like he not only won for a second time but he won decisively you couldn't make those arguments anymore and so there was like this very brief period where they kind of cooled off a little bit and they kind of there was like there did seem to be like a little bit of self-reflection not that they were happy about it but just that they were kind of like hey like

41:05we can't just go back to the old playbook kind of thing yeah and now they're just back to the old playbook where it's just like don't these people don't these hockey players know that Donald Trump is evil and that like by going to the White House like you are then embracing evil I mean that was my favorite part is that I mean that was my favorite part of the whole thing is like that that guy that I've never heard of but that people kept sending me the article from the athletic where the guy was like they've lost the crowd and then within 24 hours like they would they show up and in these arenas and they're just getting wild cheers and I think I sent it to you and said don't these people read the athletic don't they know they're not supposed to be cheering not only if they not lost the crowd they've they've completely been embraced by the crowd well and you see this though is like when you watch hockey I'm sorry but like hockey is very sort of right wing coded right like I you know I don't know what the breakdown is I mean it's probably biased because there's so many Canadian fans but the but it's it's very sort of right wing coded right it's very it's an

42:09aggressive sport it's a manly sport yeah you know it's a fast-paced sport it's a sport where fighting is illegal but people fight because that's how you kind of enforce like the unwritten rules of the game and so hockey is just sort of like right wing coded and that and so first of all you know I'm willing to bet that the person who is showing up at like the you know at you know 30 black hawks games a year is probably a Trump voter like I mean that's just going to be my guess sure absolutely and and so I think that when you and so I think that they're completely out of touch it's the same thing like when you look at sports you know I mean the UFC is very right wing coded right that like this is just like you know gladiators fighting it out this is you know very right wing coded the fighters love it when Donald Trump is there to watch their fight you know they love to meet him and shake his hand after they win they you know you know they do his little dance

43:10when they you know to celebrate the crowd goes nuts when he walks into the arena and the thing is is basically what you realize is that kind of what is happening in the media is just kind of what is happening to civilization in general like there was an old quote I forget who said this quote it was somebody famous and I can't remember who it was but there's a woman who when Richard Nixon be one the presidency she said how could Richard Nixon have won I don't know a single person who voted for him and never understood the irony right that statement and the thing is is that this is kind of where we are but not just with like this out of touch person is like that's where we are with like the entire media but also the entire political landscape I think that people I think that this is the fundamental problem that we have in our society is that we are now to fundamentally different groups of people it's it's not just that it's not just that you have

44:10Republicans and Democrats it's not just that you have red states and blue states it's that it is becoming increasingly the case that you live a completely different lifestyle from people who vote differently than you it's not just that you that you know oh you live a different lifestyle because Mississippi is a red state in Illinois is a blue state or something like that's it and Illinois and Mississippi just happen to have lots of other differences that would imply you live a different lifestyle but the point is is that it's actually fundamentally different than that it's it's very very different than that where it's it's not just you know a geography or culture or something like that that explains the difference it's actually like fundamentally correlated with your politics and the reason it's fundamentally correlated with your politics is it gets back to this thing that we've talked about before which are our politics have become existential right they have become like the primary thing that matters and when they become the primary thing that matters well then people start to sort

45:11themselves into like what they believe about the world and well how they see the world and what they think of things and so as they do that sorting you're naturally then going to you know evolve into very very different experiences and very very different types of living and as that happens people are going to become increasingly isolated from each other the problem is for the left is that if you are on the right you can live a completely different life you can live a completely different life than than than people in these blue states and all that kind of stuff but the thing is is you can't escape that stuff so you actually understand them really really well because if you turn on a movie Hollywood is very left wing coded so you are going to get their perspective when you watch the movie you turn on the television you stream some show you are you are getting like left wing coded messages you turn on the nightly news it's left wing coded you turn on CNN MSNBC

46:14it's very left wing coded you say my god Tom Tom what's his name it's not Vargas something like that though you tell come on he's shooting it straight down the middle he is not and but this is the thing is I'm gonna find my god we're not gonna talk about my god like this we are living in two completely different worlds and but the problem is is it's not just that you're living in these two completely different promise oh yes have you seen Tom no does he look like David Mure he does look a lot like David Mure okay I mean handsome guy better hair than you and I perfectly coiffed yeah nice smile as he dumb as a box of rocks like David Mure of course not no no he's sincere he's Tom he's Tom Lamis oh okay I'm sorry he delivers the news to the American people

47:19every night and he does it in a way no no no you're not gonna sit here and rip Tom Lamis on MPW digital because Tom Lamis looks you in the eye and he tells you I'm delivering the American soul to you the viewer here on this Thursday evening kind of the way Walter Cronkite David he said and that's the way it is that's the way it is and so when Tom tells me that what's happening is happening I'm like hey there you go I will concede to you that he is in a way projecting the soul of the ruling class the problem with that is is that their soul is rotten and empty and but the but no I mean that's the thing is that you or does have some guns as as a reg size man says in in a stream no David David Mure's put together no no David Mure is central casting he's hitting the jail no David Mure is central casting like if you created a newscaster in a lab you would get

48:22David Mure I'm David Mure yeah and I mean the problem is is like he is literally anchor man right like he is Will Ferrell from anchor man like he will read anything that they put on the teleprompter he is 100 percent that guy but he is out of central casting he is like the perfect you know person that you would design in a lab and his fatal flaw is that he will read anything that's on you know the teleprompter the but this is the thing is that we live completely different lives but the thing but we live completely different lives but like we we get their perspective we see them every single day the problem is is that these people who are isolated in these like blue lefty areas who are themselves blue lefty people they don't they don't they don't understand the right at all and this is not me like just speculating on this like there's hard data that when you like ask you know like really really strong conservatives or Republicans if you ask them to

49:23state the position of their opponents they can do it really really well when you do the same thing and you ask really strong Democrats are progressives to state the the position of people that they disagree with they can't do it they give you like not you know like nonsensical arguments and and project all sorts of you know maliciousness to their to their opponents along those lines one of the things that has bothered me about the last few days is in the immediate aftermath of the news that the itola had been killed along with the overwhelming majority of his support staff there were images all over the United States of Iranian Americans joyously celebrating in the streets there's the the one that I guess has gone viral from Austin Texas where the the not anchor but the reporter in the field is gets a text that's like hey stop focusing

50:25on these happy people behind you and he's like no I'm not going to do it sure he's unemployed today but he's he's not going to be Tom Yavis anymore I'll tell you that I don't understand why it would seem to me that people who claim to be for women's equality women's rights um certainly would be against the oppression of women would celebrate along with fellow countrymen who have roots in in that country who are celebrating the the the possibility that women in Iran will no longer be oppressed you would think that would be something that would be celebrated in our country by media by political figures um I don't know why I think that I thought it was a moment of brilliance in Trump's state of the union and for the record I think most

51:30state of the unions are pretty boring they're pretty predictable they're kind of like whatever um uh Trump had that moment in the state of the union he said hey I'm going to ask you to stand if you're for this if you're for American people over I think he said illegal immigrants and one half of the room stands if you ever been in that room it's not a giant room it looks huge on television in person it's like wow this is this is kind of intimate and the other half of the room sits so you know we're a super divided country in those moments you're always reminded in the state of the union but it seems to me that um regardless of your party affiliation you would be for something that eliminated the oppression of of women that doesn't seem to be a a bridge that goes very far in my opinion no so well first I'll start with

52:32something funny is that when all those videos were coming out there was somebody there was some guy I don't know he looked like he was in like his 50s or something and he posted on Twitter he was like I'm just so happy for an entire generation of young men who are going to get to see person women for the first time um and the but no I mean I think that they you know someone like wow they um well I mean seriously though if you if you look if you watch like um people were posting videos of a rain uh back in you know the 1970s before the revolution and they looked very western right and it was lots of you know physically fit men and beautiful women and I get that like that's who shows up on video right like if you show somebody a video of the United States you're gonna get you know you're gonna get the most attractive people right but like the um but yeah I mean it is remarkable but it's not remarkable because this is the thing

53:34that we talk about all the time what what we fundamentally make a mistake of doing is to take the left at their word we should never listen to what they say we should watch what they do they make arguments about things to appeal to the values that the other side has that's how they win because they come to you and they say things like well of course we have to do this you care about women's equality right and then you go oh yeah you know my guy you know my wife's a person just like me my daughter's a person just like me like of course I'm for that yeah you know and they're like yeah so of course you're for women's equality so we should do this and so then you do it and then they're happy but then you come along and you go hey we should do this it's for women's equality and they're like yeah I don't care so because that's not the principle that

54:35they're focused on what their objective is is to attain power if they are telling you that they're doing something for women's equality it's very unlikely that it's actually for women's equality what it's for is that by promoting women's equality this will help them achieve power now sometimes that's the women themselves they're arguing for equality because they don't just want is that they're trying to get a seat at the table right but sometimes it's just in service to some other goal that's going to help them attain power and that's the same on every issue it's the same when they talk about free speech there you know the same people who told you that like we must monitor the speech on Twitter are the people who are like how dare you deny the student of visa for you know chanting death to America on campus like that's just freedom of speech and it's like okay no no no see so like when people exercise freedom of speech that they don't like they have no problem with policing it because they don't believe in freedom of speech

55:35and so but then when when somebody that they do like is doing something that they believe is free speech then they're going to appeal to your principle which is oh you believe in freedom of speech right well you of course you must support this and then people get tricked into this where they go oh yeah you know I do believe in freedom of speech and then the next time when the rolls are reversed and you go back to them and you go well you believe in freedom of speech right and they're like no like you know I mean that's that is the process every time it's Lucy and the football every single time with these people that's what it is they don't actually care about this stuff because if they actually cared they could at least give lip service to it like they could come out and say look I think this was a bad idea I think like Donald Trump has made a mistake but like my hope is is that this will empower like the women of Iran or something like that like that they could make a statement like that but they don't they don't make statements like that what they do is instead they just rail against how this is a terrible thing and then when people ask them wasn't as good for these women or something like they give like these melee mouthed answers

56:39because that's not what they're after their objective is to obtain power their objective is not to actually promote any of these values that you hold that they appeal to on a regular basis their objective is power do you take anything from some of these recent elections I guess they were yesterday Texas and other states and they were in the very early process of getting into the midterms there was some some upsets that occurred worried about Dan Crenshaw like I don't know that he's going to be able to maintain his like 150 percent stock return that he's had for the last couple of years I'm sure that when that ends it will just blame it on mean reversion right efficient markets take you know take hold um sometimes you get on a heater man you know I mean he's just nailed every every choice uh he's just he's been on it and you know it's just you hate to see somebody that I mean look I mean actually maybe it's a blessing in disguise like think of all the time that he will now have to devote towards nothing but stock trading I mean imagine how wealthy he's going to be

57:45I mean this guy's going to be doubling his money every year every single year the democrat nominee for the US Senate and Texas has quote out last night said our southern border should be like our front porch there should be a giant welcome mat out front if you look at the democratic party it's a fascinating thing because what the democratic party does is if you go to if you go to the um if you look at their candidates right the way that they choose their candidates is typically identity politics right like they are like oh you know they choose their candidate by who they think can appeal to all of these different uh sort of like minority groups and then that's the candidate that they go with but what's funny is like in red states in red states they know that strategy won't work they know that they can't do that so what they will do is they will find the most like

58:50batshit crazy left-wing person um but they'll just make sure that he's like a boring looking white guy yeah right and there is this thing you can tell like again these people are also straight out of like I don't know who the casting director is okay at the democrat party but they choose one guy okay they choose one guy every time they choose like in effect they choose some guy who has like this fake masculinity right that he like they promote him as like the most I mean we saw this with Tim walls right like they were just like nobody's more masculine than Tim walls you've never seen a man like Tim walls right like that was there that was their messaging and they do this all the time where they claim that this guy's a message but but every time it is an effeminate man let me correct myself let me correct myself real quick this is um the candidate taleriko is his name he did full context he said that the state the state of Texas needs a welcome mat for legal immigrants

59:52and a lock on the door to stop illegal entry he explicitly calls to quote stop illegal immigration in quote and quote immediately in quote deport anyone committing violent crimes so in complete context and fairness that does I mean he's lying but that's so that's fine it's what he's fine I mean he's lying but it's fine but but here's the thing this is the new thing this is how I can help you guys like sort of learn this like um the democrat party what they do when they go to red states is they find like an effeminate white guy who can kind of do the mannerisms of Barack Obama who can kind of do the cadence of a Barack Obama speech so you'll notice that like they get these guys and they start we're gonna do stuff like this it's gonna be hard but we will persevere we can do this we are Americans and they do that they do that they do it they do the cadence and they do they do the cadence

1:00:53they have mastered that you know Pete Buttigieg has a beard now yeah yeah okay yeah he's got a beard now yes it's right have you seen his beard I've seen the beard I've seen the beard I believe his name is chasing oh I'm sorry no the the no I think so the no so he has the beard now so now he's masculine right like that's the new thing that they're that they're doing is like basically Pete Buttigieg you think that he's like the um you know he you think he's just like the mayor of I'm not done yeah South Bend who's who's maybe like you know they they okay you they have this is the Atlantic okay all right this is the Atlantic the Atlantic which is I mean one step below Tom Yamis yes and I quote so please don't interrupt this this is important Pete Buttigieg

1:01:58the Harvard graduate Rhodes scholar and McKinsey alum now has a beard and a splitting mall can he convince America he's a man of the people I mean he's basically a lumberjack I mean splitting mall by the way according to AI is a heavy long handled tool designed for splitting thick naughty or seasoned logs into firewood it features a wedge shaped blunt steelhead typically six to eight pounds and a flat hardened um so something hardened something on the back that can be safely used to drive splitting wedges into what whoa it's got a beard I mean he's basically a lumberjack and the splitting mall I mean he's Paul but this but this is what I'm saying right it's like this is what they do they take these people what would he and Tom Yamis do

1:03:02together for I don't answer no no no never mind nope nope um not you know wrong show but no did he um the okay the no I mean this is the thing is like they take these people and they think that they can turn these people into anybody that they want right like they think they're like because the the Buttigieg thing like I will explain this to you they they really like the people in the democratic party like they really like this guy like they really think he could be president the problem with that is is that I know this is gonna come as a shock but like male voters um and black voters really don't like him and it's probably because of the homosexuality like I mean you know we can't we can't prove it right but but I'm guessing that's what it is okay but this is the thing is they are but that's the point is they're just like look look yeah like maybe voters have a problem with

1:04:07a gay candidate right like maybe like male voters don't really want to vote for a gay guy for president and they're like but like what if we just make him super manly like what if we have him grow a beard and he starts carrying around an axe and wearing flannel shirts like I think I think it'll I think it'll work and it's like no you would you would think they saw this with walls I mean sexual he's not really part of it it's just that you you can't you would argue differently but you run you run walls as this manly candidate this macho guy and when he when he presents himself he very clearly isn't yeah it's disingenuous and it's the part that it's the part that to me gets I mean I think when history tells the story of how did Donald Trump get elected I think you have to talk about two different things one yet to talk about Trump and the political

1:05:08phenomenon that he is but two I put these things in sports analogies yeah the pistons finally won the title with Isaiah Thomas and those guys but it wasn't until the Lakers began to fragment right the bulls finally were dethroned because they fell apart the the you know the the Celtics lost to the the pistons the pistons lost to the bulls but not until there was weakness the Democrats ran very weak candidates against Donald Trump I will continue to run weak candidates I mean even this guy in Texas like this guy in Texas went on Joe Rogan and you know and he's just trying to present himself is like look I'm just like you know I'm just like the every man Texan you know super Christian guy over here like I believe all the things that you believe and then he literally starts like spouting heresy right like so he's like actually you know I have always

1:06:13interpreted you know you know I'm trying to think how he worded this he basically said like you know God gave Mary a choice and so why shouldn't women have a choice and I was like no no no no like that's not you can't read the you can't read into the gospel that God was like listen abortion's cool like no that's not first of all that it's first of all is not even that this is not even the same decision number one okay number two it's heresy like first of all the Catholic church would tell you that this is heresy okay but no Protestant church is going to go oh you know what I never really realized that you know that maybe maybe this is actually give a give us a lesson about abortion but this is what he does is that what it because it's not none of this is real it's all manufactured he is there to convince you that he is like a real Christian but then like

1:07:14he can't articulate but the thing is this is our like oh well why are you so different from these other candidates who say that they're Christians like how do they have fundamentally different beliefs than you and because then he'll just we he weaves these little stories about well if you read the Bible this way read the Bible that way first of all that's some dangerous stuff don't mess around with that like yeah don't commit heresy because you want to be a sender like like you know the like the eternal fire of hell waits for you know we'll be waiting for you the but the thing is is like that's what they do is like they they manufacture this stuff and they weave these certain narratives and you know like this guy is like the woke Billy Graham or something like that's how they cast him it's like no no we're not we're not and look like these things are these things are not going to work but but we have to understand that like they're occasionally going to work because like bad things happen like if you just have like you know if if you just have like a huge recession or something like that like incumbent candidates lose because

1:08:19people are upset and so you and so when they run these these crazy people and they run these people who are completely inauthentic and who are completely manufactured by them in a lab and like they just you know they come up with this person that this is the person we're going to present to Texas right and and the issue is is that those people in in in an ordinary election they can't win but not everywhere or election is ordinary and you don't know which ones are going to be ordinary and which ones are not and they can rally people like Beto O'Rourke what's another terrible candidate right stay at home dad Beto O'Rourke was like you know the bet the this was the their their candidate of choice and the thing that made him tough the thing that made him tough is he went around on the campaign trail and he liked to say the effort so he would go out on the and he would say you know and he would just you know he'd say it because you know he's he's a man and he's mad and this is what you know mad men do right because this is what like it's honestly when you look at when you

1:09:22look at what they do every football coach in the country is ready to be when you have except you freeze he knows he doesn't know he just every once fall takes a little dip between his jobs that's it that's it and he who's not somebody needs to take his phone away again but anyway that's another story we're not going to get into that no did he the no I don't know I don't know I don't know I mean what are you doing in that moment it's like oh no I feel I feel bad for you I did too I really I really I actually did that day um and so like this is the problem though is that brownie says but he's tried to quit and so you know they they do these things but it's again it's like the way that I would best describe it is like when they when they find these candidates

1:10:25it's like they find these candidates and then they put like like if you want okay if you want to really you know you know sort of some insight here is like maybe the sign that like we actually have had contact with aliens is like maybe their aliens are running the Democratic party because a lot of times it seems like the people who are in charge of the Democratic party like when they're designing candidates they do kind of seem like aliens from outer space who are trying to do some pattern recognition to choose candidates and then they're just like look you just got to talk tough right you just got to quote the Bible right you got to like you know listen to so Barack Obama speeches and like you know trying to like imitate the way that he talks like that you know these are the things that these these are the things that they do and it's kind of like these are transparent it's so transparent like what you are doing right like you can't possibly believe that this is going to work but they do they believe that it's going to work and in fairness to them you occasionally get lucky and it occasionally does work because something terrible happens and you

1:11:25just happen to win because you're not the incumbent but yeah I mean this is but this is the fundamental problem is that there's no there you know there's no there's no there's no sense to any of this and so when we look at Texas I mean the thing that cracked me up about the Texas thing is like there are all these like doomer conservatives like at the National Review and all these people and they like saw that this guy won in Texas and there was an article this morning that they wrote where they're just like this is the worst possible scenario for conservatives like this is the one person that can beat us and it was just like the guy who fake quotes the Bible and tries to imitate Barack Obama and he's like five foot three or something like this is the guy like this is the guy that like we're gonna that we're super afraid of like I don't understand like I don't understand that at all because it's completely inauthentic and and no I mean look here's the other thing that people have to recognize okay like you read his quote and then you said well let me give you the

1:12:25full context I actually don't care about the full context I'm tired of the full context actually the reason that I'm tired of the full context is I don't care what people say I care what people do and there is a huge problem where you have people look at the woman who was elected Abigail Spanberger in Virginia she ran for the governor in she ran for governor in Virginia and she tried to frame herself as this sort of moderate Democrat who would stand up to Donald Trump right and then she takes office and she has the most radical left-wing agenda that you've ever seen in the state of Virginia and where they're it where not only are they passing just completely insane laws but they're also like redistricting the entire state of Virginia so that they have like one Republican representative and 11 Democrat representatives and so the thing is is like this is the fundamental thing and this is why in fairness I this is why I also get really upset with the right because I think the right is completely incompetent on a lot of this stuff beyond some of the people at the top like I think people like Donald Trump people like JD Vance people like Marco Rubio like they

1:13:28they have a sense like they're they're they're they're they're they're very masterful politicians or they also understand like how actual politics works and then you have all of these other people who kind of like look at this stuff and they're just like oh well yeah we lost that election but at least it's a moderate and then all of a sudden you turn around in two weeks later they're dramatically redistricting the entire state they're passing all of these like gun laws they're going you know they're they're you know they're they're trying to fundamentally change the state of Virginia and the the frustrating thing about this is that like the people who are only listening to the words yeah the person sounds moderate but I don't care what they say if you run for office and you say like hey look I'm for I'm you know I think we need legal immigration but not illegal immigration I'm sorry but like I heard that for the for the past 40 years and every single person that said that it turns out was not actually against the legal immigration right like they were just like ah well whatever you know now maybe they weren't like as pro illegal illegal immigration

1:14:31as you know Joe Biden flying people in from all over the world and just like you know letting them come into the country but like they but they were they did nothing but yes Joe Biden another guy right out of central casting too by the way like he was always the he was the old like that he was the he was model one of like the Democrat tough guy like that was that was his that was his stick back in the day but the problem is is that he thought too highly of himself so like he always that's why he always lost when he was younger because he was always like he could do the tough guy routine but then he always would just be so unbelievably arrogant that like people would just get turned off by it but the um which he didn't have that problem in later years because he had no idea where he was and so see they made once he got to that infrastructure was crazy that are just not crazy to write word Trump's been in office for I think 13 and a half months 13 and a half months ago Joe Biden was the president of the United States he's just completely off the radar he's disappeared you never see him I mean on the one hand good for him because like

1:15:37that he he shouldn't have been paraded out in public you know while he was president of course you had no other choice he was the president so like you had to pretend that he was um you know aware of what was going on and he had to be very public facing but like you know first of all good for him like I hope that you know he can he can you know fade uh you know gracefully off of the off of the scene but also like it does illustrate the fact that um nobody well and nobody fades this gracefully right off of the scene like you still see Bill Clinton to this day you still you know Barack Obama you know it's always in the news like you know George Bush is is is around you know like they you you know they pop up from here and there um yeah Joe Biden um I mean I think it's just evidence of like actually how how bad that things were is that you never ever see him you never hear about him there's never never anything because I think that that's um um I I think that that's just what is going on is that he's you know he he's very diminished

1:16:41relative to what he was at a younger age and that was evident as he was president but it's probably remarkably worse now because as president like you know they were likely you know um using performance enhancing drugs shall we say yeah it's it's I'd actually be fascinated to read kind of the TikTok of those final two two and a half years of what all it took to actually get him through a day through a public appearance through a speech like what precisely was the cocktail when did you administer I truly would be fascinated by just the how many people were in on getting him to the finish line on a given day and then after like say a state of the union address how long was the recovery how long did it take what did you how did you do that I would no joke no partisanship I would be fascinated to read that like how much time and effort was spent

1:17:45on that yeah and I think well and I think that like but but this is kind of the the point is like Joe Biden is also kind of the epitome of what I'm talking about is Joe Biden ran for president promising that he was going to be like this sort of moderating force that he was going to return us to normalcy and instead what we got is like absolute chaos just like you know millions of people streaming in across the border you know like a war in Ukraine that nobody could explain the you know just like the general sense in which you are like who is in charge here like who's actually running things that that you know that and that's what I mean is like you can't just go based upon like what people are saying they can show up and they can say these things I mean and I think this is an important lesson because I would like to point out that you you can tell how Democrats are polling and the way that you can tell how Democrats are polling is what they do is they

1:18:45trot out people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to kind of be the voice of reason like they will come out and they will say even if they're contradicting something that they said a week ago they will come out and and say things I mean like Barack Obama went on this mini tour a couple weeks ago where he's just kind of going around and he starts saying things like you know oh you know like where he's just kind of like conceding that like oh yeah like all these controversial things you know maybe we should you know take some time and better understand why people are so opposed to these things you know and that kind of stuff and it was like but the but the thing is is why should I believe that you're actually going to do that because the the repeated pattern is for people to say like look I'm a moderate look I understand you look I get that maybe we're moving a little too fast with some of this stuff like maybe we should dial it back and then what they do is then you elect them and then they just turn it up right and they just dial it right back up and they go back to what they were doing and until they stop doing that like you really have to just tune them out you have to stop listening to what

1:19:46they're saying you have to stop like taking them at their word like you can't you you would never do this in real life right like I mean if if you have a neighbor and you ask your neighbor to do things for you and your neighbor is like yes and then they never do them like at a certain point you quit asking them to do things right like you're not going to continue to believe that they're going to do it and that's not even like a malicious thing that's just like okay I don't know that this person's actually going to do what I asked them to do but like that the but you have to be the same way with politicians and and you have to be the same way is that like what you know when the entire party starts messaging differently and sort of acting like they're moderating you know you have to ask yourself like are they actually moderating are they just telling you this so they can win the next election and then just go back to what they were doing before and I think the answer is that that's generally what they're doing they're generally just lying to you they're generally just saying like hey we got to you know stop doing this you know like we we understand your point maybe there's a way to compromise here but then they get into office and there is no compromise there is no dialing it back there is no anything it's just pedal to the metal we're going

1:20:50ahead again. Last thing completely different subject legendary Lou Holtz has passed away according to media reports know you have a lot of feelings about Notre Dame and that kind of thing he was probably when you went your childhood he was the coach at Notre Dame was a was a legendary figure in in college football and then after his career I think he was actually one of the um of pioneers the right word but one of the people who sort of shaped the way that we consume our Saturdays with his some of his post game stuff some of his commentary I thought he was a genius at it had a very successful coaching career with stops at Arkansas Notre Dame South Carolina beloved former coach by his peers not only in coaching but in television just

1:21:54your thoughts on Lou Holtz. I love Lou Holtz I think Lou Holtz unfortunately kind of I think he kind of stuck around too long because like the younger generation kind of sees him as just like kind of like a cartoon character but that was kind of like the role that he was supposed to be playing you know on on ESPN and and that sort of thing but um an amazing football coach I mean he won everywhere that he went um he is also like an incredible public speaker like you know which is remarkable because you listen to him speak you know he's got a list you know he's and but he was a remarkable public speaker he's remarkably funny um there is um my favorite Lou Holtz story is when he described like learning an important lesson in coaching and I don't remember where he was coaching at it was early in his career he was either at like William and Mary or something or maybe James Madison one of those schools and they were and um they had to play

1:22:58West Virginia and Bobby Bowden was the coach and uh Bobby Bowden the West Virginia was killing him and um and he kind of expected you know they were down big he kind of expected you know Bobby Bowden would you know sort of let off the gas a little bit and kind of you know just be a good sport yeah you know and instead like he just kept the pedal to the floor and he uh and they just destroyed them and at the end of the game when they went to shake hands uh he said that he said to Bobby Bowden um you know hey great game you got an amazing team you know you could have you know you could have let off a little bit and Bobby Bowden looked at him no hesitation and said it's your job to stop me it's not my job to stop me and he and he said uh that that was like uh and he said you know like people are gonna think that

1:24:00I'm bringing up this story because I'm trying to like you know say something bad about Bobby Bowden and he but it's he was like that's not what I took away from that at all like I did not have a lower opinion of Bobby Bowden after that I actually had just a much better understanding yeah of the game is that you know there there is no requirement to show you mercy and that you you know you have to play the full game and you have to play the full game to the best of your ability and you have to expect that the other team is going to do that too even if they're beating you 42 to nothing you you have to know that they're going you know that they're going to do the same thing and he just had tons of little you know like that's one of the reasons he was a great public speaker is that he had tons of little anecdotes like that that he would sprinkle into a speech but he was also an amazing motivator like an amazing motivator if you listen to him some of his pre-game speeches if you listen to him talk about things it was a combination of two things number one I think he was just a great motivator period but he did genuinely love Notre Dame

1:25:01yeah and if you listen to the pre-game speeches he did at Notre Dame versus some of the pre-game speeches that he did elsewhere yeah you can tell yeah because it came through like there was a love of that place like you weren't just playing for your team you like you were playing for the institution right and that you had an obligation to them and and he really really um he really felt that um and the um I can't remember who it was off the top of my head but he talk but if you go back and you watch I think this is this is in one of the Notre Dame documentaries it might be in the catholic's versus convex ESPN documentary yeah they're talking to the players and they had a all-American safety I think it was on that team that all about I can't remember who it was they had an all-American safety and he was recruited as like a wide receiver and um and the uh and and the story that's told is like this guy showed up

1:26:06you know and he became an all-American safety you know everybody like you know after the fact just kind of assumes that's what he was right in high school and he's like no like I played quarterback and I played wide receiver like I'd never I'd never played defense but the story that he tells is that he was in practice and um the one day he dropped a ball and Lou Holt just lost his mind like he threw his hat down he's like throwing a tantrum he's like ranting and raven and yelling and all that uh and all that stuff and uh and then he's just sent him over to the defense and he was like you're you're playing defense now and he was like you don't have to catch over there and that's how this guy became an all-american safety was he just was like you're incredibly athletic I want you to play you can't play wide receiver and it was just uh you know and he had so many stories like that where um you know that that he you know he would sprinkle in and I think that those kinds of um I think that it's kind of a shame because I don't think I think that he's been out of coaching

1:27:08for so long that people don't remember that aspect of him they they see him more as the entertainer as more as the guy who is on television and the guy who's kind of joking around with Reese Davis you nailed it you said cartoon character yeah yeah and I met you can tell so these are the older guys for me right um I met coach Holtz uh personally I was blessed in that I've met you you mentioned Bobby Bowden I they remarkably soft spot in my heart for Bobby Bowden I think I've told this story before but I met coach Holtz in person and he could not have been more charming and more nice and he was one of those people who has a skill that I wish I had this is a skill I wish I had I don't have it um I wish that I had the ability to when I'm talking to someone for that person to feel like they're the most important person in the world even though

1:28:08it's a conversation that he doesn't remember and I'll remember forever and Bobby Bowden had some of that too I was we'll finish with this it was 1998 I was a puppy covering Auburn it was my first year on the beat so Friday night and Terry Bowden Bobby's son had quit slash been fired at Auburn on an October afternoon Auburn was playing Louisiana Tech the next day a Jordan Hare and the football game to say that was not important is an understatement and I being a young cub reporter first year on the beat had started on the Auburn beat that August I was lost I was drowning in that moment and I had a tablet of phone numbers that I had accumulated from talking to some people in and around Auburn over the last two months and one of them was Bobby Bowden's home number

1:29:16and I said what the hell hmm what do you have to lose because at that moment I was losing 42 to nothing and I call the number Ann Bowden answers the phone and to me I'm 28 years old at the time Bobby Bowden was a larger than life personality he was Florida State dominant convicts versus I mean in that era though right Florida State wide wide right and they'd won the title and Charlie Ward bubble on and on and I told her who I was and I said I was wondering if coach Bowden was available told him why I was calling fully expected either a hang up or to be told the insert a part of my body into a different part of my body I didn't know what was coming right she said hold on honey and Bobby Bowden gets on the phone and could not have been more gracious understood what I was doing probably could hear the nervousness in my

1:30:22voice and gave me multiple great quotes that saved my ass that night actually got me praised by these people who I think in that moment we're thinking this kid can't handle this this this beats too big for him so I have a always a big soft spot for Bobby Bowden because he didn't have to take a call from the Birmingham post-hero but he was from Birmingham had a lot of ties to the state and was gracious and what a moment I mean what a I mean I typed those quotes up into a story about as fast as you could do it and it ended up being a really good story I got some other stuff done it ended up salvaging the night but that was a you're okay kid hang in there he puts his pants on one leg at a time kind of thing it was that moment where you sort of got it oh that's why this guy's I get how he could walk into a living room

1:31:27and win right and um just uh just one of those one of those life experience one of those life moments that for me it meant for him he probably couldn't tell you that oh yeah I talked to the Birmingham post-hero whatever he talked to a lot of people they had a game the next day etc anyway that's our rest in peace to Lou Holtz and um yeah I hit a life well lived from everything I know about it all right that does it for this edition of the Josh Hendrickson show we'll be back in a couple weeks got only knows what'll happen by then um yeah so uh for Josh I'm Neil until next time take care hand raised guys coming up just then short little bit of time I got a reset do a couple things I'll get back on take your calls in the Campbell Clinic hotline we'll talk whatever you guys want to talk about so um till then take care