The Huddle: Did Labour make the right call with the ETS pledge?

0:00On the Huttler thus this evening we have Jordan Williams, taxpayers union and studio and Gareth Hughes, director of the well-being economy alliance of former Green MP. Hello, you two. Hello, you two. It's our own business. So cold today. Are you in Wellington too much? Yeah, least it's not too much wind. So is it unusual that like you say, you say I'm so sorry, Wellington, so cold today, like it isn't cold all year except for two weeks. Well, if you're in Auckland, it probably does feel cold all year, but today's been particularly cold. I've even got the heat come on at the moment. Well, it's bloody great here in Auckland and I've battle traffic coming and see you, Heather, I'm sitting in your seat. They're for you, producers put me in charge and they just told me what but all the buttons are not allowed to push. Yep, which just like having a party down there in Wellington, you do. Like Donald Trump, like Donald Trump, your finger is hovering above that button just wanted to push it. Gareth, as somebody who is worried about the climate, did Jessie's argument convince you that the community needs to be put before the

1:01climate here? To be honest, it didn't persuade me, but I think she understands the writings on the wall for the sector. It is a sunset industry. She said it's not going to go on forever. I really feel for juicy. You know, I come from Tararfe, it gets born. I still remember when dad lost his job at the freezing work from about 900 men lost their jobs overnight. This is why I supported just transition. Why we should be actively coming up with better alternatives, diversifying the economy, like she said, which I totally agree with. You know, we can't just keep hoping that mining is going to solve all of our problems. And look, if mining was the secret to prosperity, towns like Reston and say why he and the North Island would be doing much better than they are. What we do see is most of the benefits are captured by a few. They're not actually flowing in to the wider community. Yeah, miners, you kept your by miners. What do you say, Jordan? I my heart breaks. This thing to that. I'm interested in what Garo thinks we're going to make the transition from from steel to what? You know, you need coal to make steel.

2:06Of course, that's the classic talking lines from, from the Greens, you know, Drainzition. This is a sunset industry. No, it's called this for what it is because GC was bang on. It's exporting emissions just because wet fakes us feel good. If we can't see them, we heard the same today from Chris Hipkins, where he continued this green fetish for for gross emissions, rather than accepting that offsetting has a role and that we should be focused on met emissions because the path we're on is actually just about closing industry, destroying communities and worse the wall, actually just sending those emissions overseas to countries that have far worse environmental and labor standards. We do have green hydrogen, right? That is an alternative to steel and this is an exciting opportunity. No, no, it was being used with green hydrogen overseas and

3:07with our renewable electricity, we could be producing the green hydrogen. So, there's not like the anteltenants are out there. Gareth, did you see Chippie's walked away from the plans to put the old farmers into the agricultural, into the ETS? And he said the reason he's done it is because it's just impossible to do. Did you know that? Well, I'm being part of a government once upon a time that actually had that clause in the coalition agreement with the government. Were you part of the same government that he was part of that tried to do it when it was apparently impossible to do? Well, that's right. I remember back then even when some Peters were saying that we needed to bring them in at a reduced rate, but bring farmers in. Look, I'm sure Jordan's going to totally agree with me on this one, which is we need to bring agriculture in because it's half of our emissions, right? We've got a pay for the credits to cover those emissions. So, what it means is it's everyday citizens, like you and me and taxpayers who are have to pick up the bill, pick up the tab for farmers. So, I colleague of mine was at the Climate of Business conference today where Chippy was talking and yeah, look, I'm pretty

4:10underwhelmed. They described it as an action policy. Really what they've announced is another they quote, urgent review. Look, we've had reviews, commissions, inquiries for decades now, and we still see ETS options fail. Our missions aren't turning the corner. And ultimately, it's ordinary taxpayers that are picking up the tab. So, look, when you've had three years in opposition, I would have liked to have seen more detail. And clearly, we've got to bring agriculture in to the future one day. Jordan, I want you to take, but I'm going to get it after the break. So, stand by, it's quarter two. You're back with the Huddled Jordan Williams and Garith Hughes. Jordan, I think Chippy looks particularly flat today. And I think it's because of your poll yesterday. What do you think? Well, he didn't call this one a rogue. Yeah, it isn't good, is it? Because, of course, he's now we're far worse actually than we are Christopher Luxen, sort of the first time around, had all the leadership speculation. I think what, the poor Hipkins, though, he can't really put a foot right. Just this morning, he was on radio

5:13prav'd with John Campbell saying how much he cared about the cost of living and things. And he can't even get to midday before he's wanting to put up the tax that applies on almost everything, which is the UTS. He's running around saying only one new tax, only one new tax, and yet he can't get to lunchtime before he opens his mouth and wants the hike, the cost of living, all the UTS that applies to almost everything. Yeah, I think Garith, this is the start of the collapse. What do you think? For labour? Well, there's still plenty of time for both sides. It's been incredibly close. It has been a battle of the block. Look, I think no one's going to leave stuff on the field as it were. Everything to play for. Polls have been flip-flopping. It's good for the green side. I mean, doing the cool round Sunday night to the various chiefs of staffs and party leaders, it was actually quite, you know, the greens were pretty happy

6:13with this one. And it's the two extremes. It's acting labour, acting greens are going up at the expense of the parties in the middle, it seems. Yeah, and I mean, that's the big story, right? Both parties now polling under 20% each. Historic loads. Historically, when labour does well, the greens do less well and vice versa. So I'm not surprised the greens are going up. But yeah, I mean, I've got their polling less than what they were at the last election. That's not a good sign nine weeks out from the election. Who is the number 18 on the greens list? Oh, I don't know. Do you know Jordan? No, but I asked last night. I asked on Sunday night. They need to pack their bags. Gareth, will you come back? What number are you? Well, I'm not standing. I love my non-partisan independent work at the moment. Gareth, have you been to the Wellington Zoo recently with your kids? No, not recently, but I did take my kids when they were younger, both teenage, as they wouldn't want to hang out with me anyway. Now, they wouldn't want to go to the zoo with you at all.

7:14They go to the zoo with their girlfriends and boyfriends. Do you remember where it seemed tired? Do you because apparently they need $14 million for the lion pen? Yeah, this seems quite a lot of money, right? So that's $7 million per lion. And I remember last time I went there, seeing the drafts and thinking it was a bit off because it was a pretty small enclosure. They didn't look particularly happy. And I wonder if maybe there is no future for lions. Unfortunately, at Wellington Zoo. Unfortunately, because I don't kids love them, but look, this isn't an endangered species. This is a huge amount of money. The city's got really big problems. $7 million per lion. We could help an awful lot of people with their equivalent money. Yeah, I wonder, Jordan, if this isn't a case where they may have to send the salda lions to another zoo or something like that. What do you think? I would have been a bit careful. It's in previous staff of mine. Once really got us in it because they were making the argument that when the penguin washed up on shore in Wellington, and was it a dolphin or something that they were literally campaigning to first not name it because once you name it, you have to

8:19look after it. And they become dependent on the taxpayer. And so somehow the taxpayer's union were now championing to euthanise these cute animals. I, as a matter of fact, I'm going to be pro-line, but $14 million. When Garith is saying this is not worth the money, I think it's, I've introduced this suggests that it is seriously not worth the money, but it's just so great that everything is going so well in Wellington City Council that they can spare $14 million. No, because I don't know if you've heard about Wellington. Jalaina and Sadiqa. Yeah, they're really rich in Wellington. So they. The lions are. Yeah, well, yeah. And the people are as well. And Wellington hasn't got any infrastructure problems like the rest of the country. So all of their money can go to the zoo basically. They can have these nice things. Did you know that? Well, this is what paradise looks like. Yeah, absolutely. All right, guys. Excessive weather, apparently. Oh, hey, very quickly. Garith, okay, there's a really quickly. Do we get rid of our postal system

9:22if dead ladies are voting? Oh, look, electronic voting has massive security concerns, but if we're leaving ballots, literally letterboxes that people can pick up, I think that's an even bigger security concern. I'd love to move to a, what we do for Central Government, right? There is a voting day where you can rock up to the school and cast your ballot. Maybe a two week advance voting period. Postal voting was meant to, you know, increase to. I said quickly, I said quickly. Well, thank you. That's enough. Jordan, what are you saying? Is agreeing with the tax payers union something something something's going wrong? A letterbox will never be as secure as a ballot box. If only we had a stronger minister of local government that would have followed through on next Smith's electoral reform group was the one thing that all teens had got right, even a broken clock's right twice a day. That called for a return to secure in person voting 18 months ago and they've done nothing. And they need to have a good time. How much evidence do you need? Yeah, two right, dead people voting, not a good look. Hey guys, thank you so much. Jordan Williams, Gareth Hughes and it's seven away from six.

10:24For more from Heather Dupesy, Alan Drive, listen live to News Talks, from 4 p.m. weekdays or follow the podcast on iHard Radio.