The Fansplainers – The Odyssey

0:00No one could stand between me and home. And even the God. Hello, mythological movie goers and welcome to another episode of fan spainers. My name is David Idrick. My name is Lisa Lamson. That's right. The hostess with the most desks of horse mysteries has joined us this episode of fan spainers because Mary, our regular contributor is under the weather. Literally is raining on top of her. She could not get

1:01out from underneath it. No, she's sick. She's at home feeling the flu and also working. I don't know what's going on. I guess she's putting all her energy into her job and not into her hobby. Weird. All right. So I'm sure Mary will be disappointed though that we're doing this because she liked this movie quite a bit. She saw it twice. She saw it once in a boring old regular theater. Where do you see it here? I saw it in a boring old regular theater. Unfortunately, I saw it in a 70 millimeter iMacs on a movie format that the individual reels weighed around 800 pounds and just to show how weird Canada is the I can't remember now. It was like maybe I'm wrong on the wait because it was around 870 kilometers of film on a reel. So that was or maybe that's entire film. It was this was told to me by a person sitting in front of a crowd of people. So I didn't I didn't take any notes. What it came down to is we didn't get any previews. We got we didn't get any trailers because there's

2:05no room on the reels for those because nowadays and I guess maybe this has always been the way but I didn't know this. The like the trailers are on the or with the film when the film arrives. It's it's pre-packaged with the trailers which is why they're commonly from the same studios that you're seeing the movie or and also kind of centered around what they think that audience will be interested in. So for instance, if you go to see a kids movie, they'll show you the trailer for the breadwinner. And if you go to see an action movie, they'll show you the trailer for the breadwinner. And if you go see like a romantic comedy, they'll show you the trailer for the breadwinner. So they're kind of carefully targeting the audience based on what they're watching. So yeah, I saw it at an independent theater. Okay. And they did you see the park? I saw it at the park. So you did see it in 70 millimeter because they have they have the capacity. They have a 70 millimeter projector there. Okay. The original park had a 70 millimeter projector. That was the only place in Vancouver outside of an iMac. So you could see 70 mill. And then when it was sold and

3:08it was bought by the people who also run the real theater in Vancouver, they replaced well, because the original 70 millimeter was taken by the company that owned the theater originally centerplex. They took the 70 millimeter. And then it was replaced by the owners of the park. So so it does have a same mill. So you didn't see it in in in the proper format. You just didn't see an iMac. So what is iMac? It's slightly bigger and it's louder. But I think you got you got to see it in that nice clarity of 70 millimeter. So what they did have and I don't know if they had this at your theater, they showed every movie that had had that was the Odyssey little clips from it. Oh really? No, we didn't get that. So that was very helpful for me. I had no idea what the story was. So then I'm like, well, I could have just watched that. Sure. I got the whole just of it. I happened to read the Iliad in the Odyssey when I was younger. It's been quite a while since I read them though, probably a little under 40 years. I read them in my 20s. So I was interested in, you know,

4:09I just wanted to read the classics. And those were those are classics. The problem with reading them, not that there's a problem with reading them. But the thing about reading them is that you're reading something that was initially an oral tradition that has been collected into into, you know, it was written down into a point by point description of those oral traditions. So it's kind of dry. In the sense that it doesn't have like a lot of flowers, flurry language, it doesn't really have a lot of descriptive passages. You know, it's kind of like reading the Bible, really, because you know, the Bible is the sort of same thing. You needed to get things down economically because you didn't have a lot of room on the pages you're writing on. You know, the gospels are written on one sheet of papyrus. And they fit all the whole gospel on it. And when the papyrus ran out, that's where the gospel stopped. Right. So similar for the for the Odyssey and the Iliad, they only had a limited amount of room for for the information or the the writer of Homer. Homer. Thank you. For some reason, I was thinking, because we've just watched the Warriors. And they were talking about xenophones. Right. Anabasis instead of the the

5:16the, because everyone thinks it's about the Odyssey, but the Warriors is based on xenophones anabasis, a story of soldiers returning from a Persian war, not from the Trojan war, which is the Odyssey story. It's similar, of course, because there are stories of people returning and there's mythical elements to both stories. And why Christopher Nolan wanted to do this film? I don't really know. Other than I think that he is someone who grew up kind of the same time as me, we're pretty close in age. And I think that both of us grew up watching like Ray Harryhausen Clash the Titans, those sort of movies that had, you know, that were that drew from drew from Greek myth, you know, myth traditions. And so this was like, you know, obviously the kind of the the deep cut, the original version of all those sort of things. And I guess that's why I wanted to do it. You know, after he did Oppenheimer, which was an amazing success for a movie, which is essentially about the invention of the atom bomb and people having meetings. And that was

6:18showing an iMacs. And we didn't get to see it at the time because we were trying to coordinate with friends going to see an iMacs movie. It a theater that's only two of them in all of Vancouver, only 34 of them in the world. And so everyone from everywhere wanted to see it. So it was only 34 iMacs in the world. Yeah. Well, iMacs 70 millimeters in the world. So yeah, it's limited. Where you can see it. So I and I know there's two iMacs theaters in Vancouver. I don't know if the rival one to ours is also 70 millimeter, but it could be. So we it took a long time for us to see that movie too, because, you know, it was one of those cases of you know, you'd open, I'd open my synoplex app. And then you have to like put in how many tickets you're buying that you'd choose to date, put in how many tickets you're buying. And then you look at the you look at the seating fine. And then you go, Oh, there's no seats for sale. So then you have to like, I didn't realize this, apparently you can like go back up and choose along, but I didn't know that I would keep going

7:18back out and counseling and then we're doing everything. And then you choose like, okay, let's go ahead a week and see what's available. Nothing. Okay, let's go ahead two weeks and see it would nothing. Oh my gosh. Or there would be seats available, but they'd all be like right in front of the iMac screen and no one wants to sit there. So we finally got seats and then we had to cancel because we had a prior engagement, not a prior engagement. The prior engagement was, looks great to the movie, but unfortunately we were invited to a to a friend get together. So we'd cancel their seats. And then I had to book seats further two weeks away. So we went from August the 20th to September the 4th. And then you couldn't make it to that. You had you were busy, although I had written on the calendar, but you hadn't written now what you're doing in the calendar. So well, yeah. And I had something that we don't find times out until usually two days before. So I don't write it on the calendar because I don't know what the times are. And then yeah, it just happens that it coincided with the movie. So you can make it, but Mary and I went to see it.

8:19And we quite enjoyed it. And I don't know if part of that enjoyment was singing in a kind of we wanted to see it for a long time. Finally, I got to see it in the theater. It was a big, a big extravaganza, you know, kind of a call back to the days of the 50s. We're going to see a movie in Vista Vision or in Panavision or whatever on a big screen, you know, Sanorama. What do you think of it? Well, I had a different opinion than you. As did my friend who I went with. So yeah, we both walked out and the word that was in my head was relentless. But I think now I would say forgettable because it was only three weeks ago. And I just had to go and review what the whole movie was about. I'm like, Oh, I forgot that. Oh, that. Okay. Hmm. I don't even remember that part. So yeah, there's bits that like it just did not make a huge impression on me. I remember it's long. Yeah. I was sitting there going, okay. And that's I think why I thought it was relentless because I at one point had to

9:20go to the bathroom. And I'm like, okay, just wait for a break. But it's just like, try out another thing. Try out another thing. Try out another thing. Try out another thing. And it was just like, it just, it was like slapping cards down, right? There was no kind of up and down and lull and so yeah, the rhythm of it was was just relentless is how I felt. My friend's opinion was depressing. That's what how she felt it was. Yes. I mean, it is depressing. I think I do think it's interesting. Having read the having read the stories. And I mean, obviously elements of it stick out like, I remember things for the movie, but I don't know if it's because I was interested in reading them in the in the book. So that's the siren sequence or Silla and Krybdis. The and I was so happy to finally find someone who told me that it was Silla. I've always wondered how you pronounce S-C-Y-L-L-A as reading it as a, you know, 20-year-old I was like, is it Skyla? Is it skillah? Silla? I don't know.

10:24Krybdis seems more obvious for some reason, but because of Kryzma, but Kry- uh, Silla, Silla, I didn't know. But Silla, there you go. So yeah, that always stuck out to me too. You know, the idea of naming, this is something I didn't like in the movie, but we'll get to, we'll talk about a little bit when we get there, but those are things that stuck out to me in the film, the the CIRC part of it as well. I didn't remember, I didn't remember the lotus part of it. I didn't remember pin- uh, not pin- uh, the, what's the character's name? I played by um, oh yes, Charlize, Charlize Theron is Clipso. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't, um, I didn't remember that part at all in the book. So there was, you know, so it wasn't like I was actually moving going like, oh yeah, this part, oh yeah, that part, there was lots of it that I hadn't, didn't remember for a really long time ago. But there's lots of things that stuck in my head, and one thing I really enjoyed about it was, was kind of its relentlessness. I did like that about it because reading it, reading it in Homer, it's a very bloodless experience. There's very little reality to it when you're reading it, and I

11:27think that, oh, though, then really, you know, for better or worse than you say it's relentless, I think I found it kind of interesting in that everything had a very tactile and very, very much, there was a very much a, I don't want to say everything was a gut punch, but everything had a certain amount of impact on you, you know, for instance, when you hear the, that they hid inside the Trojan horse, you just go, oh, they hid inside or Trojan horse. Yeah, I think there was bits that were very good. Like the Trojan horse scene and that whole idea of the Trojan horse, it brought more to it, but I'd heard of this sirens before, and I'm like, afterwards, I could have gone to the bathroom during that part because nothing happened. And likewise, with that big sinkhole thing, the whirlpool, same thing, it's just like, oh, like, I could have missed that quite easily. Yes. Well, let's, let's talk about that. Let's, let's, um, I'll get this for a second, when I went on another interesting thing about the film to me, which is that,

12:31typical Nolan, I don't know how he does this, you know, he makes the movie. It's about, I don't know, 242, 270 million dollars in Fertz budget. It was filmed at a lot of places around the world that, you know, I like to stay and watch the credits afterward. And so you can see that there were parts were filmed in Scotland, parts were filmed in Iceland, parts were filmed in Greece, parts were filmed in Morocco. So, you know, they're all over the world hopping with his giant production, with big actors, you know, who have big salaries. And so there's a lot of money in this movie. And yet, it's made 1.4 billion dollars, kind of like Oppenheimer, which, you know, if you said, well, this is going to be a massive summer film. This movie about, you know, this skinny guy who invented the atom bomb and then got, got in trouble with the cover after. This is going to be the biggest film in the summer. You're going to be like, what? And the same thing with this movie, if someone's, you know, someone's revived the Odyssey by Homer, you know, the book everyone wants to read. And, you know, everyone's clamoring for finally, someone's put it on screen. It's going to make, you know, that's not what you think of what this film is kind of like, I hope it does okay,

13:34because it's a real, that's kind of a big hit, a big swing. But, you know, I don't know, people love the fact. I think that's the fact that he makes it into an event. And it's not just a, not just a movie. It's a, it's a, it's an iMacs event. It's a thing that only, you know, that you have to go somewhere specific to see it. And it doesn't feel like something that you can wait to see at home, you know, like lots of movies come out now. People are kind of like, oh, wait till it's streaming because it's not, you know, the invite, you know, it's just people talking in an apartment. I can watch that at home. But forgetting the fact that it's being trapped in the theater for the length of a film that gives movies its magic. Do you think he learned that from how inception did, was inception, was that the movie he did? He did inception, yeah, sort of, his films. Like, because I can remember going to see that. And the theater was empty. Or you think it, Tenet? Oh, Tenet, that's a one. I mean, that came out during COVID. So it's kind of unfair. I think there was awesome one other person in the theater when we saw it. So, but timing, A, it's something.

14:38But also, yeah, making it bigger. Because I think Tenet was a way better film. Way better. I would agree. Then the other. I agree. But yeah, I mean, Tenet's failure was the reason that he left warners. He felt like they didn't support the movie. And I would say that almost all the movies that came out during COVID were unsupported by the studios. The studios were way more interested in streaming at that point. And we're all clamoring to be the first, the first or the second or third to start a streaming service. And so you had Disney, you had, you know, I guess Paramount through ABC, who owns Paramount? Not Paramount ABC. But Paramount Plus started. You had, you know, NBC started the peak, peak, peak, you had, you know, so another studio owns the criterion channel. So you had all these channels popping up. And everyone was eager to take the movies out of the cinemas out of these COVID cinemas and move them

15:38onto, onto. And so they kind of screwed Nolan that way. Tom Cruise fought and fought to keep, to talk on Maverick in the theaters as long as it was like he had to really fight to keep, to keep the companies from pulling it. But Nolan did not have the juice with warners to do that. And so that's, that's why this, that's why his last two films, which have been, it could be successful, have been done through Universal and not through warners. Through Universal, but with this little bit of a, I'll call it gimmick, right? Yeah. Because was it six years ago now? Yeah. I saw Tenant. Yeah. I remember that very clearly. Three weeks ago. I saw the Odyssey. Yeah. I don't remember very much at all. Well, Tenant was, Tenant's a better movie. It's, it has way more imagination to it. It's a lot more fun. It was more, I think the characters were far more real. Like, I don't know. I mean, I mean, aren't these characters real? Aren't they based on historical percentages? I don't know. Again,

16:39I walked in knowing nothing. Okay. I mean, I think it's based on a historical incident. It's based on the Trojan War, which was a real thing that happened. But can you make it real on film? Like, that's, I think that's the thing. Was it cast well? Was it dialogue good? Does it make you identify with these people or root for these people? I would say no, no, no. Well, yes, because of the movie's theme, really, it kind of undercuts what you're watching in a way, which is what I really enjoyed about it too, is I love the theme of the film as well. Explain. Explain the theme of the movie. Let's go through the film. Okay. And we'll talk about the theme when we get to the end. Okay. So just so people know, the film was told in a non-linear narrative, which I also liked as well, because I feel like once again, the Odyssey and the Iliad are both kind of dry retellings of these slash historic or historic, slash mythic stories, right? Where

17:39they're taking historical events and intertwining them with mythical elements to elucidate ideas about the gods and how gods affect our lives and stuff like that. That's the important part of Greek thought at the time, right? So, you know, how are the gods interfering or whatever within these major events and stuff like that? So that's part of it. But also, what I like the reason I like the non-linear is that you could have, because what's great about non-linear, if you can make it work, is that it's comment, the echoes of the future comments on the echoes of the past. And so we have, you know, the present day in the story of that time's present day. And then you have the past of the Trojan War and then Odysseus's journey after the Trojan War home. So those stories are intertwined with what's happening in the current time in Ithaca and in other places around the Greek archipelago. Is that what it's called?

18:42So I'm just going to read from the, I don't have Mary here today. Mary is mismemory. She can remember like any movie she sees from the beginning to the end and tell you the credits after that too. I'm not that person. So we'll kind of go through cumulately through the plot in um, um, Omicapedia. So here we go. For 20 years, Ithaca has been without its king. One Odysseus, Odysseus did not return from the Trojan War. So Odysseus is played by Matt Damon, who I thought was really good in this role. I really like Matt Damon a lot as an actor. This is what third performance in a Christopher Nolan film. He was an interstellar where he's fabulous and interstellar. Fabulous performance. Great part in that movie. He's just a, he's not a lead actor and he just has a, has a small part in the film, but is that part is great and he's great in that part. I have not seen up Oppenheimer as I said. So I can't comment on his role in Oppenheimer. And I enjoyed him in this film as well. I think he's a really good actor and I, and I thought he was good in his, in his, in his performance, both playing young and old in the film. I thought

19:45you could have been a little more compelling. Hmm. Yes. And yet he's sad. So that's, that's kind of the conflict there, right? As you have, you have his, you have an actor who's playing someone who is unwillingly taking part in a war is disillusioned by the war is haunted by what he's done. Troy. I Troy. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't think, you know, so it's kind of a PST, PS, what are the PTSD story? Let me see those mixed up in that sense. So, so we see in Ithaca in the present time that there's a suitors clamoring for the hands, a hand of, of a, Penelope, the, you know, Odysseus's queen is, his wife. And so we have the Nobleman Antinius, who's played by Robert Pattinson, who's really great in this movie because he's so big. Yes. Yeah. I thought he did a good job in that role. I thought he did a really good job in that role. And I liked his

20:46contrast to Tom Holland, who is very small. He's a very small person. And you can, you get that sense of the difference between them. It's very finely fine Tom Holland, you know, this sort of gymnastic actor. And then you get this giant hulking Robert Pattinson. So I never thought of him as hulking before, but this movie in the way it films him in the way it contrasts him against other actors really makes him seem big in the way. And he's, he's got a brutish face. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He does. Yeah. That's why everyone thinks he's the method actor. So Odysseus is aggressively courting Penelope because he wants to claim the throne from Odysseus. And as far as everyone's concerned, Odysseus has been away so long he's dead. Right. He is dead. Now, as I said, Tom Holland's in the film. He plays Tulemicus, who is Odysseus's son, who is next to the throne. So he, Antinius, his goal of getting the throne would it could only happen if Tulemicus is removed from the picture. So my question was if everyone thinks his dad's dead, why can't he not step into that position now?

21:51Because that's a good question. I didn't really understand that myself. As far as I could figure out just from watching the movie and not like going through other sources is that is that if he claim, yes, he has to declare Odysseus dead to claim the throne. And by declaring him dead, that leaves his mother open for suitors to have like she has no right to refuse these men's advances. But as an unmarried, as a widowed woman. Right. Right. But by her son becoming the king or whatever, yeah. Then she would have less allure because then they would not get that role. So, yeah. I mean, it might save her a little bit too. Anyway, whatever. That's a whole other thing. Yeah. So of all the people that we've seen so far in the film, only Penelope, Tulemicus, and Odysseus is half blind servant, Emmaus, who's played by John, what's his name? John, probably saying the wrong

22:57name actually, because I'm silly. Oh, John L'Oguisiano, who I've always, I guess because when I grew up, he had a sketch comedy show on Fox TV, the John L'Oguisiano show, which all I remember now is having a parody of the sharks and the jets from West Side Story up against an actual gain. And they're being confused by, you know, sort of like Latino gang of bunches like, you know, essay kind of guys, you know, and then these other guys, you know, could throw in their knives back and forth and dancing and singing and stuff like that. And it's pretty, it's kind of funny. It was also done in seven I live with the great, I can't remember names anywhere here. I've lost it. I've lost my brain. Anyway, anyway, there's a funny one in the center of life as well with. Chum guy. It's the one guy, McDonald. The last name is McDonald. Normal. McDonald. Thank you. So I have to say that John L'Oguisiano did a really good job as a man as well, you know, who I'm talking about the series. Yes, the guy with the dog.

23:57And the dog on the other hand, now that was a fake dog, right? That's not a real dog. It was, yeah, it probably was CGI because I don't think I did not like it. No, it's kind of, can you use a real dog? No, they can't anymore. Why not? Because animal rate activists get a lot upset about it. Because that dog, every time I saw that dog, all I could think of is that's not a real dog. I know it's really annoying and you just have to put up with it now because the reality is is that if they use their actual animal in movies, people get really upset. So they just don't because then they don't want to get, they don't want to have a negative campaign against a movie on on social media. So they're just like, oh, just put in some animals. It looked like they were, you know, remember those little, I think those little sets you would get when you're a kid and you would rub on a little piece of plastic and you would transfer that image onto another image, you know, like say it might be like, I don't know, it might be Spider-Man and you just like rub on it with a, with a quarter, whatever and then you would transfer that onto the, but it never looks right because he's always, much brighter color than the, than the background.

24:59And that's kind of let CGI looks like to me all the time. It looks like slightly not right with everything else in the movie. Yeah, they did like Argos. He's a good dog. Good dog. Oh, he was a good dog. He just was not a good rendition of that. He's not a good rendition. You know, it's funny. Like it's more believable in a movie. Like when you're watching, when we were watching, say Toy Story 5, you're not like, oh, that's not a real horse because it's just a cartoony horse. Yeah. So he was like, oh, it's fun. It's a fun drawing of a horse. If they had done that movie and it was like, and then, but when we went and saw a disclosure day and they had like, they're trying to show real animals like a fox and something else in the movie. You look at them and just like, and they tried to make them look real and also a bird. You're like, well, it's not even real. It doesn't look real. Why are they bothering this? Why don't just get a bird anyway? So, uh, Penelope tells telemicus. I'm going to say telemaca during this, by the way, because I, I didn't know his name was telemicus until I watched the movie. She fears attacks by murderous people from the sea who violate Zeus's law and much has made about

26:03Zeus's law in the film. And Zeus's law is essentially a law of hospitality. So that you treat the traveler, you treat the stranger as a, as a, as a welcome guest because that stranger could be Zeus in disguise. Because as we know from Greek myth, Zeus is everywhere and all things. Sometimes he's a waterfall. Sometimes he's a spawn. But no matter what he is, he'll get you pregnant. So, telemicus travels with Odysseus' friend mentor to Menalayus, King of Sparta, played by John Baranthal, which is great to see John Baranthal on this film. And Tom Holland on this film, because both of them are in Spider-Man. The, the most recent Spider-Man, which you saw, right? You saw? Yeah. So you remember the panisher in the movie? No. The guy that's kind of Spider-Man's friend who they go and stay with him for, he takes, send Dias character in the movie, Mary Jane, takes, stay with him in his barge and some sort of industrial area. That's John Baranthal. Okay. He's also, he plays the King of Sparta in this film. And he's good in it. Of course, he's John Baranthal. He's always good. The interesting thing about John Baranthal, here's

27:05something interesting about John Baranthal. Tom Holland, when he was thinking about applying, applying, auditioning for the role of Spider-Man, showed his audition tape to, to John Baranthal, they were friends. He'd been in movies together. And John Baranthal looked at and said, this is terrible. You're not going to get, you're not going to get hired from this. You have to show them. Like, why aren't you showing them? You can do gymnastics. They'll want an actor who can like hop around and do all kinds of stunts and stuff like that. That's what they want. And so he made Tom Holland refill him it and include like jumping around and doing back flips and stuff with that, which Tom Holland can do. And so Tom Holland did that and he got the part. Thank you, John Baranthal. What a good friend. Tom Holland made fun of John Baranthal in this movie, which was that there's a scene where they're walking in the forest and they're hunting, uh, levit. Hunting webits be very, very quiet. They're hunting like grouse or something like that, like a bird, like some sort of ground bird that is being beaten up into the air by beaters. And then they're shooting, they're shooting bows at them. And John Baranthal, according to Tom Holland,

28:06John Baranthal is a very good bowman. He's very good. And he was hitting all his targets. There's targets off screen for them to aim at. And he was hitting all the targets. But he's doing it in this really economical way where he's just sort of very quickly lifting up the bow and doing these little, little shots. And Tom Holland was like, and it was, he was so perfect in his shots. But it looks so unthiatrical because he's just shooting it like, economically, like, you know, like a good bowman. But you don't want to do that in a movie. You want to look like you're really, you know, having a string and make it dramatic. And then he's just doing these little pulls. And I was watching the movie and he was doing that. I was thinking, I had already heard this and I was thinking, oh, that's kind of funny. I wasn't as, I didn't stand out as much as it might have to Tom Holland news, maybe thinks more, more theatrically than I do. Because I was thinking, oh, he's a very good, he's a very good archer. That's what I was thinking. Oh, a good form this man has. But, but yeah, he wasn't even like holding up to his eye. He, he already knew like where to hold it and how to, how to aim from it from from the position he was holding it. It's very good. So he goes to Sparta,

29:08it goes to the, goes to the King of Sparta played by John Bernthal because he wants to find out where his father might be because Manolais was also in the Trojan Wars and was in, was in Troy with with Odysseus. Um, we also at this point meet Helen of Troy played by Nepita Longo. And we see that Helen of Troy has a scarred face. It's not explained in the movie why she has a scarred face and it's been too long since I read the Odyssey to know why if she was mutilated in some way or injured in some way during this thing because, you know, her beauty launched a thousand ships. I mean, you know, so it doesn't really explain that. It could just be that Manolais did it, injured her. So took away her beauty so she can never betray him. That's the impression I got. Yeah, because he's very bitter. So, um, now, Antenius, Antenius, I already say his name, played, we've said Robert Patton's, his character. He learns that telemicus is left the safety of

30:08if Ithaca and he wants to kill telemicus upon his return and plunder Ithaca. So, um, I'm, a lot of what we're saying is sort of intercut with the past and the past, the present. So, um, the plot is being told to us in a way that kind of cuts a little bit of the back and forth out, but that's okay because it will make it clear anyway. So, Manolais and his wife Helen tell telemicus about the war but express uncertainty about Odysseus fate. So, we get, that's where we get the story of the of the Trojan horse is through is from Manolais. We get his point of view of the Trojan horse. We get, because we have two different points of view of the Trojan horse, right? We have Manolais's point of view of it and then we have the character played by Elliot Page. I don't know the name of that, that, that Siddon, Siddon, Siddon's, what can I know about that? Who, the one who dies, standing in front of it to protect it from the, the the Trojans who find it. And so, he tells the story and so we get that great, very graphic and very

31:10vivid feeling of what it would have been like to be crunched inside of this Trojan horse. Not the three, you know, when I was a kid when I read, we heard the story. You're kind of in your mind, you're like, there's four guys inside a wooden horse and then they kind of four of them jump out. I don't know where the idea that four people could like cause the fall of a city is, as, as ginormous as Troy. Troy was a major city. It was, it was, it was, it was the reason that there was a war, not because of the Queen. The real reason for the war was because of commercial interests. Troy was the gateway to Persia. It was a gateway to trade to the Orient. So, you know, it controlled the, it controlled the, the, the, the, the highways and byways of the, of the, you know, silk roads or whatever spice, the spice trails and whatever else. So, you know, for the people of Athens, in Ithaca, you know, they wanted, they wanted control of this. And so, you know, those things happened. Kind of the same reason during the Crusades when Venice, instead of saying the Crusaders to

32:10Jerusalem to fight the Moors, they sent the Crusaders to Constantinople to fight the, the, if not Turks, this is before this is before the, before the, before the takeover by the Turks, they went to Constantinople and fought them instead, even though they were part of the Holy Roman Empire. And then they weakened Constantinople. And so, when the Turks attacked it, it fell quite easily because it already had been attacked by these Crusaders. And the reason that Venice did that was because they wanted to take away the trade, trade routes that Constantinople controlled. Controlled, anyway, that's nothing to do with this movie. Okay. I was getting confused. Another bit of the movie that I missed. I never read your Venice was in this movie. Didn't you see the blind man? He was Venetian blinds. So, yeah, so that's a great sequence. The children, her sequence is fabulous, I think. It was good. Yeah. So, let's, let's talk a bit about Odysseus now. So Odysseus, the film is visited by Athena, the goddess Athena, played by

33:17Zendaya. She visits him through it. We're just kind of fun because Tom Holland is married to Zendaya. So, they can, I guess they could go and they're honeymoon together to Greece, wherever they happen to be shooting at this point. On the island of Ojidja, it's not familiar to you? No. Where the nymph, Calipso, is infatuated with Odysseus. Now, Charlie's the Rhone is good in this role, but the problem with his, problem with his performance, but not performance, but the problem with his decision by Robert, not Robert, or Patenton's fine. He made lots of good decisions. The only actor by the way who insisted on seeing the script, who foray agreed to do the film. No, no. Everyone else is like, Christopher Nolan, I'm in. Do you remember seeing the Northmen a few years ago? No. The Northmen is a retelling of Hamlet through an eviking culture, but it has several moments in the film that are magical in, in our mythical legendary elements in the film. There's one scene where the character has to get at this kind of sword. It has to go get this particular sword,

34:21and it's Garden and a cage by a king, by a skeleton king, a dead king who has to fight the skeleton and to get the sword. You see this in the movie, but it also shows you him just going into the cave and just getting the sword from the skeleton sitting in this, you know, whatever it is, like some sort of cave, what we call it, like a burial chamber. Karen, yeah, he goes in from the top, drops down inside, and I really like that because I love the fact that it gives you like the legendary element of it, the idea that he had to go in and fight the skeleton king in order to get this sword, and that's the legend. And then the reality is he just dropped down into a burial chamber and just took the sword from a dead body. But then how do you get back out? He had a rope. And so this movie, by being so real all the time, it kind of loses some of the magic of some of the things like when you say the sirens are boring. Yeah, the sirens are kind of boring because they're not the magical, they're not magical beings. There is some ladies

35:24sitting on rocks. They're really ladies. I thought they're magical ladies. Well, yeah, they're magical ladies because they're singing contempt you to your death. So they should be more magical seeming than just ladies sitting on rocks. But in the movie, they're just ladies on rocks. And you couldn't even see them. I couldn't like, I'm like, yeah, yeah, the same color as the rocks. Oh, the clothes are wearing are the same colors are rocks. I'm like, okay, I'll take your word for this. There's ladies in there because if these ladies are so enticing, I even want to see them. Yeah, I got nothing. Yeah, they weren't even like, weren't even my kind. Where am I type at all? They weren't a bunch of leads oil. I'm sitting on rocks singing. That's my guy. So the same thing here, Clipso is a nymph. What is a nymph? It's a magical being. It's a magical fairy kind of to me, right? I'm not talking about like the in stage of insects. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So no, I'm talking about like the legendary idea of what a nymph would be. So it wouldn't be like a sort of being like tinkerbell, for instance, like swimming with wings.

36:27That has like a diaphanus appearance to it that seems that seems otherworldly in some way that that is different from us. Not Charlie's Theron is wearing like a burlap sack. I'm sitting going to beach with Odysseus. Not really nymph lake. How do I know she's an nymph? Because they read it in the notes from from a cappedia. And I think I think we failed in that sense of not bringing us the magic of of of the Odyssey. You know, if you're going to tell us a magical mystical story, make it magical and mystical. Not not just not just like people actors actors and actresses is hanging around. Like I can see that any old day. Anyway, she's infatuated with Odysseus, which we didn't really get in the film as well. We don't really see her unrequited love for him. I don't think maybe Charlie's Theron isn't the right actress for that role. Because she's too strong of personality, too strong of a personage even in her like screen persona. She's furious. She's a hard-ass bitch. I don't know if she really is in real life. But you know what I mean?

37:33In her screen persona, whatever it is blonde, something blonde, atomic blonde. That's how she's kind of become in the last few years. She's old guard and all these kind of things where she plays like a sort of action hero. And then we're supposed to like see her talking with Odysseus, but she's not. We don't get a sense that she's trapped him there because she loves him. We just feel like she's trying to help him in some way. Like he's kind of lost. He's uncertain. And we know that he feels great guilt. We don't know that yet, but we understand that, you know, we will understand that he feels great guilt and that he feels like he's not worthy to return to Ithaca because of his actions. We'll learn that through the film. But we don't really get that sense here. We just got the sense that, you know, he's eating these lotus leaves to forget. Obviously, yes, to forget, but we don't really know why yet. But we don't really get a sense of what her motives are for this. Like why is she feeding lotus leaves? Why is this happening? Yeah. We should see. It wasn't until you said about the lotus leaves that I even knew what you're talking about because I was just going, oh yeah, okay, well, this is another bit. I don't

38:37remember. But yeah, I got the impression that he was sick and she was trying to heal him. Yeah, heal him, but at the same time, not heal him. Yeah. But we don't, you know, like you should have, like, you know, the tinkerbell still, you need to have like jealousy. You need to have moments of jealousy of anger of something that we see that there's something about her that doesn't want her let him go, even though she knows that she must. Yeah, she needs to have more of a flaw. Yeah, yeah, but she doesn't in this, I think. But it's Athena. And when she's talking to him on this island, who commands Odysseus that he must return home. So Clipso dislikes this so they say in this, but I don't really, to me, her character wasn't strong enough either way to know what her motives or what her feelings were about. So, but she's trying to encourage him to remember his past. And so this is where we start to get the, you know, the kind of backstory to how he ended up in this situation. So we, so we go back years earlier, the Greek army led by Manelius's brother, Agamemnon,

39:42Conquer Troy using Odysseus' strategy. So we get a few things. We have him talking to Tulemicus before he goes. And he doesn't want Tulemicus to come to the battle. He wants him to protect his mother to protect his wife, Phenelope. We also see him having a lot of redraft. So rather than just pick people, they let the gods aside, who's going to go? And so people come up, they draw a rod. And if the rod is a certain rod, then they are to go to Troy. And if it isn't, they stay behind. And that's when we first, that's when we see Antinius and his first act as a distributable jerk, which is when he pulls a rod that would send him to Troy. He, he, he trades his rod with another, with a poor person in this, and that would be that person we played by Elliot Page later in the film. At this point, it's just a young boy. And, but he trades this rod to this boy on the understanding that he will pay the his family money.

40:44And so they can have wealth for his sacrifice to go to Troy for this boy's sacrifice to Troy. Let me just find out the name of this boy because I don't, I'm just going to look up Elliot Page, is Sinan. So close. So close to Sinan, right? Sinan. So Sinan goes to the war in, in place of Antinius. And that, that way we know Antinius is a jerk. And also we learn later that Antinius didn't even pay the family for anything he did. So we also see, we see Sinan sacrifices a decoy. So Sinan tries to prevent the Trojan from taking the horse. Now this kind of, kind of ruins the movie's theme in a way because we'll get to it, we'll get to it because when, I'm going to say right now, actually, when they go into the Troy as the Trojan horse, the Trojan horse is dragged. It's quite a, it's quite an elaborate sequence. Yes, it is. Very, very, very vivid once again. It gives you a real sense of the weight of this thing. Of course, it's got like 20 people, 20 guys squished inside it,

41:48you know, jaoul to butthock. And then, and some of them have drowned while they're waiting to, yeah, so it's full of water. It's full of water. And it was embedded, happened, sound, as well, buried. So waited a long time there. So we get the sense of how long it's been waiting with these guys inside it and pooping and everything else to try. And yeah, so then, you think they would smell it? Yeah, you think so. Probably the whole world is smelly then, so no one noticed anything. But they drag it, they drag it into Troy, they erect it. And then that night, the, the, the Greek soldiers come out, you know, Odysseus and Manelius and come out. What I liked about this part is they're like stretching and they're all like uncomfortable. Like they can see that they've been bound up for like a long time and they're all kind of like having trouble moving as with as much athleticism as they normally would. And then they, you know, basically, they they they open the gates to the city and allow for the sack of Troy. And this is after hanging around for 10 years on a beach. It finally occurred to Odysseus, oh, this is the way

42:49we get inside. But Odysseus, we see him wandering. I don't know if it's now, but we'll just kind of light everything together. We see him wandering through Troy as it's being destroyed by the by the Greeks who are angry. They've been hanging around for 10 years. They've had, you know, people, they've had losses, you know, over time, there's been some skirmishes outside. But for most part, Troy has just been under siege by the by the Greeks. And he's very unhappy because he realizes that by entering by entering Troy as a gift, the Trojan horses a gift left by the Greeks. And then using that as a way to destroy them, they have broken Zeus's law. And so he watches this horrible massacre of all these people, not just soldiers, but, you know, just the regular citizens of Troy with great disgust and with, you know, he's disheartened, disheartened by it all, right? He feels, he feels like he's betrayed, you know, the custom of the time, the custom of the age. And that,

43:53you know, this is not this is not honor. What they're doing has no honor to it, right? So, so Sinan who is sacrificed, that's the that's the boy who who traded places with Antenius at the during the during the and so he is he is told that that the Trojan horse is is a gift for the king of Troy. And that's all he knows about it. So he sacrifices himself when the soldiers come upon it, he sacrifices himself to protect it, not knowing that it's full of soldiers. He has no idea. This will come up later in the film. So then so then Menelaus and Agamemnon, they they're all going to their boats and they all leave in various ways. Odysseus decides these are going to go his own ways. Not going to follow Agamemnon. He's not going to follow Menelaus. He's going to go his own route. He's going to get back before they do. They're going to be he's going to be laughing sitting on a throne and they're going to be still at Odetsi and which is not true by the way because he gets rid of he gets lost for a long time. So Odysseus in his crew, including

44:59his second in command, Erlockus, sorry I don't know how to pronounce these names. Erlockus played by High Mesh Patel who was so good in yesterday. So good in yesterday, yeah, but also he's so good in tenet. When they do the raid on the airport, I was like when I was like when Christopher Nolan has actressity likes and uses a game. I was like other directors do that as well. So they the ideas that they will head home, but of course they have to stop as they're going home various places in order to forage for supplies. And that doesn't mean they're reaping impilaging. It just means they're going ashore and if they can they'll buy if they can't they'll steal. That's basically what they want to do. So the first place they visit, they follow some sheep and follow them thinking there's sheep. It'll lead us to a herd. It'll lead us to a shepherd. We can meet

45:59we can meet you know, meet the shepherd and we'll come to a deal and we'll take these sheep for food. They discover that it's not a shepherd. Well it is a shepherd, but the shepherd is a giant cyclops. Oh yeah yeah. It's a giant beast. Yeah and the cyclops I liked. You like the cyclops? Yeah because like I said we saw just kind of little snippets from all the other right back to the 1920s films and even cartoons. Sure sure. Yeah. I think every it seemed like everyone that had ever been made about this. Yeah yeah. And pretty much everyone was a classic like one guy with an eyeball in the middle of his head. Where's this guy? It looked like he was a person who was yeah just had a facial deformity. Okay that is believable. That could be a real guy. Obviously he was giant as well. Yeah yeah. But you can see how someone like that could have taken on you know these kind of mythical proportions right and be talked about and become this this thing. Yeah yeah. So

47:02that idea I liked. Anyways carry on. I did like that. Yeah played by Bill Erwin. Oh that's a good play by Bill Erwin and he is he's pretty great in the role I think. And I I like the rather matter of fact way he eats the Greek soldiers to sort of picks him up and munches on them and it doesn't seem to care about the other Greek soldiers though it's kind of odd. He just grabs a few and then I guess he feels like the rest of them are there like his larger. By the way the Cyclops name is polyphemus polyphemus. Okay. Polyphemus? I don't know. I don't even try and pronounce it. That was dumb with me. So they're trapped in the cave by him and he devoured several of the crew and then and I think it's kind of cruel but I guess they had to do it. They had to blind polyphemus polyphemus and so they blind him. He's very upset about it and then they disguised themselves as sheep by tying a straw to their back. So as the sheep go out and the blind Cyclops is feeling their backs he feels the hay on

48:08the backs of the soldiers and he's okay with that but it's still there's still a a sacrifice of men in order for them to escape and then they escape and as they were escaping they hear him cry out for help to his father Poseidon and the crew is now worried that Poseidon was going to be angry with them but Odysseus at this point in the film is kind of agnostic about the gods. He doesn't even take them very seriously. He thinks he's kind of like you know what's Poseidon going to do? Like what the heck are you guys worried about? So we blinded the son of Poseidon whatever and then they go to see and then next time it's like the boat being tossed around like you know like a cork on the ocean and winds whipping everything apart the sails are tattered to pieces and so things aren't going great. They land on an island called IEI IEI. EIEI. Pretty much AEAEA.

49:08Where they meet the last Gugunians who are these giant giant little giants once again giants because that's what happens to legendary characters and stories they become bigger and bigger. Oh that made me think though. Gulliver's travels. Do you think this story was inspired Gulliver's travels because while I was watching it I went oh just like he keeps going to different lands and you get all these people anyways. I know that's probably the case. I'm sure that it's partly the case. I don't think that it's I mean Swift is doing something different with his story right? Like the reason he makes the people small is so that Gulliver can be disgusting and the reason he makes the brabding Nangians big is so that they can be disgusting to Gulliver and so he's you know and then the war of the little potions is like this pathetic war about how to which end of an egg to crack when you a hard-boiled egg is what they're having this giant war over you know so he's minimizing our us humans our concerns our wars to petty things that these tiny people are doing

50:12you know and so yeah he's doing something slightly different than what Homer would be doing by making them larger he's at grandizing our deceased's feet right so yes they meet and when I say he's a grandizing I mean this is probably like the most pathetic part of the movie where it's just like everything goes so wrong it's wrong and every which way and you can't believe how wrong it is because they're walking through the woods they meet this child who's a gigantic child but it's a child nonetheless they scare the child the child runs off and then suddenly they're confronted by these giant men who are wearing full body armor which by the way wasn't not going to happen at that time period there's no way that they had the technology to make armor like that but that's okay it's looks great they use small children as the Greeks from behind and and then face them with adults wearing suits of armor and so they look big they look gigantic my problem is when you look at the arms of the kids they look really skinny and not muscular like the soldiers but that's all right if you don't know it's happening you're probably not paying attention the way I was so the

51:17Lysergonians or whoever say the name kill well they destroy two boats worth of soldiers they kill a lot of soldiers is it's it's it's a general massacre and Odysseus is really losing the moral support of his of his crew you know like he's you know part of what makes you a good captain whether it's a captain of the you know a general on ground or a captain it's he is luck if you have good luck you will be beloved by your men if you have bad luck you will you're a Jonah and you will you're in trouble and so he's becoming a bit of a Jonah they're not they're not trusting him anymore so so and that's what happens the survivors survivors rebel against Odysseus and when they when they go to the island they basically you know leave Odysseus on his own to do his own thing and Odysseus is kind of like well I'm gonna prove that I'm useful and I'm gonna go kill get some meat for us to eat and so he goes off to hunt and they go off to meet they go off to this house that they see up on the hills and so they walk up there and then they meet this woman who is

52:23and there's all these animals around you see like lions and a tiger just kind of weird because they didn't like you know live in that area tigers are from India and lions are from Africa but okay whatever I'm sure that they knew about them from people from explore people going out and trading and stuff like that would have experienced them what they don't know is that this is the witch Circee I played by a smathamordamer and she is great in this role fabulous and she you know she's confronted by all these men who come into her place and of course they pretend that they are peaceful and want you know they aren't gonna hurt her and stuff like that but their soldiers they've been unbought for months they're you know they're who they are and so she doesn't trust them and so she but she feeds them but she feeds them a magical stew or a magical broth or whatever and they cannot stop eating it they cannot not eat it yeah and as they eat and eat and eat

53:23they turn into who what they actually are and that she kind of shapes them into pigs and it's pretty amazingly done it's it's not done CGI it was all done practically on set because Christopher Nolan always avoid CGI when he when he can which is good and it's bad it's good when you do some of this and it's really neat to see on screen and you kind of if you kind of know what to happen it's very impressive it's you know bit of magic like a bit of actual you know illusion magic and a little bit of of camera trickery but it's all done there on on set and that's cool but also it would have been kind of cool if for instance calipso the nymph was more nymph like through the uscg eye to make her a little more sparkly or a little bit more something to make her seem something more otherworldly than than what it's a regular person named Charlie Theron playing a character on an island so yes all the all the remaining sailors or soldiers of Odysseus are turned into pigs meanwhile Odysseus who's hunting out in the field he sees a deer

54:25and he's like ooh and it's venison this will be good speaking of Venice and he goes he shoots the the deer and he goes over to get it and it's a man laying dead so the deer was you know and so he realizes oh oh troubles a foot so he runs back to you know weren't worn the rest of his crew and but when he gets there the crew are gone and seriously it's just pouring slops for some pigs in the back of her house and so once again and in this instance Odysseus shows his I think he shows his intelligence you know obviously he knows something's a foot so he he doesn't trust her but he doesn't want to show her that he doesn't trust her right so he acts the guest you know and she calls him on it because he has a dagger so he you know he says well you're right I do have a dagger so I'm not the best guest but and then she offers him her magical soup which of course if he starts to eat he won't be able to stop and she's very eager for him to eat it and he kind of

55:27whether pretends or almost is going to eat it but doesn't because he's questioning her and finally he he persuades her to change his men back from pigs back into men and she says I can change them back into men but they'll always be who they actually are which are pigs and she also warns she warns Odysseus that in order to get back to Ithaca he has to cross Oceanus into the land of the dead so when Odysseus gets to the land of the dead he meets their his fallen soldiers including Sinan who accuses him of betrayal by not for not telling him what the true importance of the Trojan horse was to which Odysseus says you had to be convincing you had to convince those men that had value and if you knew what it actually was you wouldn't have played that role properly and then Sinan also curses Antinius and says the Antinius never paid his family

56:32so we further know that that rubber patent since a jerk we already knew it but yeah it's even proved even more you know we've one thing we kind of left out is the fact that there's all these they call them suitors but really it's just a bunch of like lung heads hanging around this cat as palace freeloaders freeloaders yeah taking advantage of Zeus's law to drink all the eat all the food and drink all the wine and you know work up the the gumption to to approach Penelope to ask her to marry them you know and they have to of course present their suit in some way that's appealing to her um Antinius is way of doing it is by being clever and sneaky for instance me a goth is in the film she plays she plays Penelope's handmaiden and she has been bought by Antinius so she is providing Antinius with information of what Penelope is doing so for instance Penelope is you know trying to not marry them so she's doing whatever she can to put off the fateful day and so she claims that this tapestry that she's making when she finishes she will

57:32make her decision but in reality she is picking it apart each night and redoing it the next day but Antinius learns this from from Penelope's handmaiden and calls her on it during the film um but yes so he talks to Antinius and then uh and then we also meet aga aga memnon's shade and I have to say that in the film I did not like aga memnon's voice I thought he was too boyish sounding you know so you have this big impressive person like in the movie a lot is made of him he wears this black armor he has this almost like vertebrae up up the back of it okay and it's very impressive and then this you know crazy helmet that's all angular and and it's quite it's quite it's really beautiful costume and he's played by one of the safeties I think by Benny Safdie plays him in the film and I didn't like and I didn't like it because I thought he sounded too young and I'm like shouldn't he be more impressive sounding and I said that to Mary and she's like oh no it's better this way because then you realize that he's just a dumb kid who's just you know making kid decisions

58:37that's why this war started right because he's just making these childish decisions not decisions based on wisdom or experience and I had to give it to her on that one that's the case I think that's probably a good wise good reading also she loves Benny Safdie so she's happy that she's happy that he's in the role she would like some so yeah like his movies that he makes with his brother and likes him as an actor so yeah and egg and egg and emblems shade his his dead form that rises in front of in front of Odysseus reveals that his wife Clyde a monestra murdered him upon his return because he sacrificed his daughter if a genia for for the outcome for a good outcome to the war and so she carried she carried that anger that anger and I don't blame her no I don't blame her but she sometimes have to have to propitiate those those gods I always joke at work that we have stacked gods because it work when you're moving like giant stacks of doors they have to be in sequence

59:39and so sometimes you'll bring doors over to put on top of other doors and not in sequence so you have to like irritating the move when giant heavy pack out of the way and then put all the other packs on and then put that last pack on so everything's in sequence so I always say you know if it's if it's in her favor if it's in sequence I always go oh the stack gods are smiling on us luckily I gave them a sacrifice at Vemma my breakfast this morning you know people are showing to think I actually believe in them so so he his advice to Odysseus is to adopt the disguise upon returning home in order to sneak into his own palace because it'll be dangerous which is true and not true because in agamemnon's thinking it is Penelope who is a danger to Odysseus but that's not the case at all it's the suitors who are the danger to Odysseus they're they're the ones who want to get him out of the way so they can marry Penelope but you only see what you want to see of course Odysseus also speaks with the shade of Tyreseus Tyreseus who predicts that by divine will only Odysseus will return home the rest of his crew will not

1:00:45will not make it I wonder who plays Tyreseus let me look at my cast list because I didn't it's a small it's a small role so it's not probably not oh James Remar oh wow we just watched in the Warriors yeah funny there we go I thought he looked familiar now I know why it's James Remar one of my favorite actors all right so chased from the land of the dead by Odysseus fallen army that's the other part so all these guys who were killed in the land of the whatever they're called the last last trade goonians sorry Greek scholars who are listened maybe listen to this for murdering the the the these names um they are chased chased out the land of the dead and then Odysseus follows Tyreseus's guidance to survive the encounters with the sirens so he's told to put wax in his ears of his crew but Odysseus chooses to hear the song of the sirens to know what it is and I did like this part of the film I Lisa didn't like this part of the film so much but I like the fact that he recognizes that the song of the sirens is a cry of nostalgia it's a

1:01:50cry to have a return to place that you can never return to and that's the experience of all soldiers who have gone to war is that their experiences in war preclude them from ever being able to return home again to the home that they once knew and that's the same for Odysseus he can never return to the home that he once knew and so I do like that element of that sequence I just wish that the sirens were more standing or interesting in some way more sireny yeah they should have had more they should have had flashing lights on rocks with sirens going neon signs yeah and then we and also he tells them how to deal with cryptic and and silo which is that you have to avoid cryptic which is a which is the what I call it a vortex yeah my neighbor vortex or a whirlpool whirlpool sinusure all kinds of different names for those things and then silo which okay now to me what cryptic and what silo are in reality are yes the the rough waters near a street near a narrowed

1:02:56passage yes that you're going to have that you might even have might even have a vortex whatever there but and then what silo was is the falling rocks that you would encounter in this narrow cavity that come down on you the movie for for whatever reason decides to make silo into some sort of tentacle monster in a cave which is not described in any way in the book it's very it's once again it's very vague what they are but in my mind as was a reader I just thought okay well these are just natural you know natural obstructions you would need on your as a sailor that you'll find and the way to get through them is to avoid going into a whirlpool which will you know swallow you up into it and drown you and it's take the risk of going through this area with falling rocks or whatever and and as Tireesius predicted Odysseus loses for four men but that's four men to all the men

1:03:58you know so that that's that was a sacrifice he had to make but this crew doesn't like it they're very angry that he did that and they demand to be to go ashore on this island which once again Odysseus was warned about this is the an island owned by Apollo and they must not kill the they must not eat the cows on this island and so the guys are like oh no we'll go there but we won't we won't we won't touch the cows don't worry we're not gonna touch the cows it'd be fine and so he's like okay all right if that's what you want and he's not very happy about it but he just okay so they go to this island and then the wind dies soon as they get there they get this beautiful breeze pushes him right to shore brings him right to shore he just they oh this is great because one thing you never think about living in a world of motors is how much vagaries they were to trying to travel by wind because you didn't know which direction the wind would be blowing and you couldn't and you wouldn't like you wouldn't want to have you know like it would probably sounds great that you would have like a wind that would blow you to shore actually it's not great

1:04:59because you don't want your boat to be blown to shore that's where it crashes and it gets broken to pieces you really want like a wind that would blow you along the shore away from it but it kind of long so you can kind of beat your way into the words the shore it's all very complicated but it's interesting nonetheless so in this case they get to the shore the wind dies they're unable to go on because they've also a lot it's as it a tri-reme I don't know the name of these kind of boats but it's it's it's you know kind of like a galley it has ores it had men the men row or it has sails so if the winds blowing go by sail and if the wind isn't blowing then the men can row but unfortunately at this point half of the the ores have been destroyed going through cryptus and so they are kind of stuck on this island and then what happens what happens the men get hungry and they secretly eat they secretly eat the cow and then and of course Odysseus finds them and eating this cow and they they're hiding in this in this crevasse and this field and eating a cow and he's like did you think you could hide from you think you could hide from a polo and he's like oh we're just trying to hide from you but he found them they disobeyed him

1:06:05and then soon as they disobey him the wind picks up again they sail it to sea and Zeus brings a storm upon them that sinks the ship kills everyone except for Odysseus and this is when he washes the shore unconscious onto a djjia the island with clipso and where clipso's lotus flowers cause him to forget everything that he that he had done or anything that he anyone that he knew so even though he has forgotten he still has this inbuilt desire to leave so she's trying to trap him there but he's building a he's building a raft sort of unconsciously putting together a raft on the on the beach and finally she gives away and this and allows him to no longer eat lotus flowers to remember his past to embrace his past to embrace going returning to etheka he gets onto the raft and he just elets he discernes to fate and is this you know is this some sort of storm he's washed a shore and he comes ashore in etheka so he's back home again so he finds humaeus

1:07:12a maus every state's name who of course knows it's Odysseus but because the dog knows him that's what clues him in and he he tells he tells he warns Odysseus that and atinius and the other suitors have sent a bandits to assassinate telemicus on his return on his way home from from sparta so telemicus and mentor who's played by uh i can't breath the actor's name it's gonna quickly look through my notes again sorry everyone but mentor is played by uh played by Ryan Hearst who you would know dear from from playing the brother on on uh alson's brother on on uh what's that show called it no the show with pretzicircate where she can see the future oh medium medium yeah remember her brother on the show and then the actor and then he was on boss for a while he played he played the assistant of that of the DA of honey on the show so he's uh he's kind of interesting because he's a Sikh he's a he's uh he's uh he became a Sikh

1:08:17later in life and so he doesn't cut his hair he can't cut his hair but it doesn't wear a turban he just lets it you know he just has long hair and so he plays mentor in the film so it's i i was like to see him acting because i was worried about him or kind of like it's a real you know you've made a real decision in your life to become a Sikh and not cut your hair and be an actor you're kind of limiting your roles like he was on um he was on that uh sons of anarchy with the the motorcycle gang show okay and i would assume that's a good place for him to be as well where being hairy you know wearing having a big beard and having a long hair would be good on that show so he's kind of he's kind of limited himself to him but anyway so mentor and tele tolemicas are returning from sparda they go to a thinnest temple and there they discovered there's bandits who are have taken over the temple have killed the temple servants or and maybe the temple clergy i don't mean call the people who are in a temple sorry sorry when none next one on Athenians uh a thinnest is that what they're called here so um so they go to this temple mentor is killed defending

1:09:22to tele mcus but a disguised adecius uh calling himself synon kills the bandits and rescues his son tele mcus they return to ifika and and then audices and so tele mcus is kind of suspicious of who this person is he doesn't think it's synon but he's not sure who it is and and remember that tele mcus never met his dad his dad left when he was when he was when he was very young so never met his dad how can he told anyway i don't know i might have mixed up mixed up some stuff i'm really part of this um anyway tele mcus does not know what adecius looks like now anyway and so but when adecius comes upon his dog argos argos i should say uh who recognizes adecius and dies because he's been waiting all these years well passes age he's 20 years old this dog when he sees adecius he dies and then tele mcus knows who that adecius that synon is actually adecius his father and he's very excited but he can't

1:10:24it can't celebrate yet because there's a lot of a lot of plotting to do and i think kind of a necessary plotting but anyway um so during a feast adecius confronts atin atin atinia is about betraying synon and then atinia thrashes him before atinia is an intervene and adecius that lousus happened he does not fight back he could fight back but he doesn't after the meal adecius still disguised confesses to banelope his guilt for violating zizuzla during the stacking of troy desecrating atinia statue after killing her priestess and that priestess is played by zendaya as well and so atina is is her form the atinian priestess uh that he killed he is his guilt makes him see as atina during his during his voyage um and basically when penel when penelope was worried about the people from the sea coming ashore to destroy the Greek culture the Greek world that's adecius

1:11:25is the people from the sea and didn't they say that at one point maybe maybe they're the people from the sea there he he has violated zizuzla and brought upon the destruction of Greek culture um and that's in the claps of the bronze age i suppose and that's his guilt that's the guilt that he carries and atina appears to him clasping his hand in a way forgiving him his actions but he can never forgive himself for this he can never be king he can never deserve to be king again in his in his mind so penelope then announces to all the suitors that she is prepared to marry and instructs the suitors to return it dawn because the thing that must happen is that they all have to die all the suitors have to die because they will kill adecius if they find her who he is so penelope then disc declares that she will marry whoever can string adecius is bow and shoot a narrow through a row of axeds which is a trick a party trick that he did so uh so the suitors

1:12:28fail they don't even get to shooting through the axeds they can't even string the bow but was such an amazing bow that only adecius and it with an even Easter goes to do it it's not an easy bow to string but there's it's like what's that i'm resting there's a little bit of a trick to it to maybe so yeah yeah yeah because he has a bend it certainly to bend it yeah the suitors fail it is this adecius succeeds and shoots their oh through the axeds and it's as your reveals eyes the identity i don't think that happens yet i don't think it happens yet i don't think he's recognized yet maybe is but it takes a while because the suitors begin to fight him but some of the suitors bend their knee to him as the fight goes on and i feel like that's their acknowledging who he is yes yeah i think that does happen a little later though yeah yeah it doesn't happen right away no so i don't feel like at that point they're like oh this is adecius you're like who is this guy who can do what adecius does right but adecius is dead so we don't know who this guy is and then you know and and and and so nea is this is like what we got to kill this guy because i want

1:13:31to wear Mary Penelope and kill all these other suitors so this needs to happen and so there's a big fight but i didn't really like this part of the movie very much i mean either i didn't see the point of it kung fu like Bruce Lee think it's he'd fight one guy and everyone would be staring at you and then he'd find the next guy and then he'd go and stand around looking it wasn't that bad there was there was not bad it wasn't that it wasn't that there was mass fighting there was people surrounding him there was a lot of people he had spheres in his back yeah when this fight was all over so there wasn't just wasn't one person at a time but he it still it just seemed too much for what it was it should have been it should have been done more more in a brief in a brief way i don't think i don't think it was like a good highlight for the end of the film i think the bit that was like good that i liked was the one guy dropping the weapons through the ceiling why why i don't know because i've never seen that before okay so yeah i kind of thought the other guy could have stopped him so silimicus yeah well he's a lot smaller and younger so not quite as not as strong and not as

1:14:36experienced a soldier is that fellow he's got use sometimes youth isn't enough to you um so after the remaining suitors surrender adicia seeds his throne to telemicus and leaves with Penelope to seek peace in exile so he promises in the land of the dead that he will go to the west but they kind of said yeah to think that he didn't live because you see him with that two arrows or swords whatever it was back and then then his wife it was looking sad and then his wife's walking down the gang plan go by herself and his sons looking for lonely and then all of a sudden he's there on the boat together yeah you want you kind of want to leave a you leave a bit of a cliffhanger did he survive he did he did survive he's going to seek peace in exile hooray they sell west to honor his fallen soldiers and the couple expect civilizations renewal and use that time will forget adicia's mistakes which is not true we remember them because someone wrote

1:15:36them down and told them to us over and over again and even enlarge them in some ways um yeah i you know i did enjoy the film i you know as i'm not the biggest Christopher Nolan fan in the world and so some of the there's some shots and some staging and stuff like that they're kind of bug me and i really don't like when he crowds does a lot of big crowded sequences and the camera sort of randomly doing things that as bothers me i guess we'll sort of look exciting but it just seems confusing uh the like in the fight sequence which i was kind of bored by it is because it wasn't it wasn't stage very well in my opinion i don't mind fights it's just but make it make it interesting at least um yeah i don't all all i enjoyed the i enjoyed the the kind of the puzzle of the film with the revelation that they're the people from the sea that they are the ones who have brought about the end of of Greek civilization the and that by the by the betrayal of the Trojan horse which i just liked all that i do not think unless i'm really obtuse i don't remember it being

1:16:40spelled out that strongly in in the Odyssey when i read it it could have been there and i might have just missed it you know as a young as a young reader but i did appreciate it being brought out in the film as strongly as it was and i do i thought that was quite a clever kind of not twist but a clever you know way to bring about that the moral the moral of the film you know the idea of of the war you know being the the precipitating end of of Greek civilization of you know in its glory it would soon fall to Rome and become just another satellite of the Roman Empire and there you go there you go but i thought you know and half the way was good in it yeah i thought and how the way was very good in it and very brave too like she's you know she looks old in the movie you know and and it's not she doesn't try to hide it it's not you know like not like her roles and one of those the recent romantic comedies where she's like a woman in her 40s dating a man in his 20s or whatever and you know the movie bends over backwards to kind of keep her

1:17:42face looking younger than it is obviously and this movie does not bend over backwards to do that it shows her in all her beauty so i really i thought she was really good in it i thought i thought all the all the acting was quite good in it um i enjoyed it i enjoyed it i enjoyed it more than you anyway those are my favorite film i don't i don't even think it'll make my top 10 of the year who knows but but i didn't i did like it well enough i you know i probably give it three stars three maybe three and a half how would you add a five what would you rate it to two two stars no wow at least it did not like that movie no it's too dark well they were in a cave even when they weren't in a cave i've never been to that part of the world but i understand it's very beautiful everything's very blue and if you went there it would be like you know be in an Iceland it's all gray yeah yeah part of the movie probably was film the Iceland so i think it was film the nice land yeah well there you go probably the i love the dead part of it looked kind of Icelandic i love the dead uh well there we go everyone that was

1:18:51the Odyssey our Odyssey in seeing it at least my Odyssey in seeing it it was an Odyssey to get to see it sure was and i finally did and i i thought it was good i thought i enjoyed it so i you know it's up to you do and i'm curious what other people thought about it but i i thought it was quite good i enjoyed the acting i enjoyed the moral the message of it the the theme of it that was good and i thought and i didn't you know it was maybe like kind of obvious like it basically states its theme but i don't know i don't mind a movie being being obvious about its theme sometimes i think it's okay don't be all secretive make me work hard for it just let me know what you're trying to say yeah have a little written thing at the end for anyone that missed it that's right this movie is about man's in humanity to man get it all right that's it everyone thank you thank you dear for filling in for our healing daughter yeah you rock him for for what it was worth what you like the color

1:19:52it's fair it's fair it's the subjective opinion it's not not right or wrong um i like to pretend i'm surprised by people's opinions but it's okay i already knew you didn't like it i already made fun of you for that yes in front of other people and pointed to you and and made jokes about you make videos made you a shirt that said i didn't like the Odyssey and i make you wear it to you every day so there you go other than that you can have your own opinion it's fine all right thank you for listening to fan spanners if you'd like to read into us folks you can do it it's quite easy you can go to the website sneakyjagging.com there you will find this episode you can leave a comment underneath let us know what you thought about the Odyssey was it as good as that movie that came out last year that had refined playing Odysseus the homecoming i think it was called apparently it's pretty good maybe we should watch that one and and uh compare and contrast uh there we go oh also we have an email sneaky deyette sneakyjagging.com if you're an email type person all right folks thanks for listening we'll be back again hopefully with mayor and with another movie

1:20:55all right all bye bye you i think it's asleep