The Ax Murder Zombie - Delmar, New York

0:00This week, in Del Mar New York, detectives find a bloody mess when an ax murder strikes a home on a quiet street, leaving behind one of the strangest crime scenes ever, and possibly just enough evidence to catch this depraved killer. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petrigalo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. It is a crazy story that we have for you today, just a... Yeah. Absolutely wild, messy. It's something we've never seen before today, which I... No. ...is wild, so we'll get into all that. It's going to be crazy stuff. Before we head to all of that craziness, though, definitely you should head over to

1:02shutupandgivememerter.com to get tickets for your own craziness. Come see a live show, everybody. You've never been to a live show. They are a blast. Comedy show, comedy show, comedy show with a murder. It's just so much fun. We can't wait to see it out there. You've never seen anything like it next. When a couple of weeks here, what is it? September 18th at the PAPS in Milwaukee. I'm not sure if any tickets are left. We had released the rest of our holds. Not sure. Minneapolis, the 19th state theater. Get your tickets. October 3rd, Dallas, October 16th. San Jose, October 17th, Sacramento. And then Terry Town on November 13th, which is almost sold out. And then of course, Medford, Boston, outside of Boston there. Savima. On the 14th. Get those tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you do all of that stuff. Also listen to our other shows. Put out two shows. We think you love crime and sports. You do not have to like sports. Trust us. You have to like crazy stories that are hilarious. We got that.

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3:03Then for small town murder, Donner party part two. This week they start eating each other everybody. So check it out. It's going to be wild stuff. Can't wait for that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports and on top of all of that, you also get everything we put out crime and sports. Your stupid opinions, both small town murders every week all add free with your Patreon as well. Add free. Add free. Can't beat that. And you also get a shout out at the end of the show. Jim, you know, this pronounce your name. He'd love to get it correct, but you know, names are tough. I'm a best. Hey, what are you going to do? Names are hard. They're difficult. So that said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show everybody. We're comedians. Jokes are going to be made and people are going to die because it's called small town murder. So be weird if they didn't. So that's how it works. You go, how do you make that happen? Very easily. That's the thing here. We do it very tastefully. Like, that's how it is. Yeah. All you have to do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims family. Why James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

4:07That's it. That's all you have to do because there's plenty to make fun of. We'll make fun of some small town because we're all from somewhere that deserves a little mocking, a little ribbing. It's all in good fun. We'll make fun of some police force that lets a murderer kill more people. Why not? That's a screw up. We'll make fun of a murderer because we have no other recourse. We have nothing. We can't go to a prison and take his ramen noodles away. We have nothing we can do. So we'll mock him. That's our particular skill set. So yeah, that sounds good. You're going to hear a wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together, I don't know why you're here to begin with, but we think you might like it anyway. So give it a chance. And also you should do this. You should clear the lungs. What do you say here? Let's go arms to the sky. Everybody, let's all shout. Shout out. Thank you. You're the murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go. What a crazy ritual we have every week.

5:08It really is. And say so ridiculous. So ridiculous. We found out that there is an Etsy producer. We wanted to have some things made for studios and stuff like that. And they refused to make our stuff because it says you, sir, may fuck off and shut up and give me murder. And they said they're a family business. So from your, my family to yours kindly lick my family's balls. You fucking weirdos. You're fucking morals because you will swear fuck you. I hope you're fucking mortgage is real late this month because you don't need money. Imagine moving that much Etsy shit that you can parse between morality of swear words. Eat my shit. Fuck you. That's on the other ones they refused. They wouldn't do that either. No, I'm kidding. All right, let's go on a trip. We're going to Delamard, New York everybody. Delamard, New York, D-E-L-M-A-R, New York.

6:09It is a hamlet inside the town of Bethlehem. Oh. So singer Christmas songs as you will here. It's all year long. It's up by Albany here at Eastern New York right outside Albany in that capital region there up the Hudson about it's about 15 minutes outside Albany. So right there Albany by the way. Is that near where Woodstock was? It's in between. Woodstock is also I think across the river Woodstock. Oh, that's Bethel. Bethel, yeah. No, Bethel Woods is where the original actual Woodstock was. Yeah. And then they had the the Bethel shows after that always every year. They still do. Yeah, when I was a teenager that was a big deal. Yeah. It's also it's two hours and 45 minutes to New York City. And about four hours to Pembroke New York, if you remember that was over by Rochester Buffalo, which is actually important to know the distance here for this episode. That was episode 684, the Murderer Mayor, which is insane. The guy trying to be mayor murdering people, which I mean you're murdering your voters.

7:11That's not going to help. It's not me. It's more some down. One less vote at that point. So this is an Albany County area code 518. A little bit of history here as we got a we got a lot of story to get to Nathaniel Adams moved to the area in 1836 and then built a large hotel and made some other improvements. He was the first postmaster in 1840 when the post office was built. The Adams Hotel was Bethel Hems Town Hall also in the in the 1900s, 1950 to 1980. They just used that as the town hall. Now for Nathaniel Adams, Delmar received its name of Adamsville, which was the original name. It got a post office. But then I guess the story is that mail started to get confused with Adams, New York, which also had an Adams village, which is confusing. Now by the way, this reminds me, I apparently screwed up some of those cons and stuff last week and mixed up my spring brooks on a couple of them. This is why you say no, there's already another one of those and you don't do it.

8:14Right. Because then you don't confuse podcasts. There's 150 goddamn years from now. Over where the fucking shit was to spit all over my thing. Certainly in the forefront of them. Damn it. They had no respect for me sitting there three in the morning trying to figure out which is which. So anyway, it was changed to Adam Station in attempt to relieve the confusion, but apparently they just decided to name it Delmar and they can't figure out why they named it Delmar. See, there's already one of those two on the other side of the country. There's none of them. There's one in Maryland. There's a Delaware. There's that one we've done an episode there. This, the town historian, Susan Leath said it's so frustrating. There's got to be something out there hidden in the depths of the DNH Railroad archives, but they don't know. Now Delmar started being treated as a census designated place in 1980 where they would do census here. There's that.

9:15Now they did not include the town of Delmar in the 2010 census for some reason. We're not sure why. In 2005, CNN Money Magazine named Delmar the zip code here, which is a larger area. One of the best places to live in America rating it 22nd in the best place to live. It was called a great American town. So let's find out from some reviews what people think here. These are reviews for Bethlehem, the town of Bethlehem here. Five stars, great and safe place to live, friendly neighbors and schools nearby. Everyone helps each other, small town feel, but close to highways and downtown Albany. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. That's terrific. Three stars. It's a very typical suburb with stay-at-home moms and lots of cookie cutter houses. I'm a single mom, so I don't fit in anywhere really. I moved here strictly for the school district for my daughter. It's very expensive, and if you're not a typical, quote, family, it doesn't feel very homey.

10:16However, it's close to the Adirondacks, only two and a half hours to the city and not terribly far from the beach. I can fly out of JFK to get cheaper flights, even direct to Honolulu. What does this have to do with this town? What are you talking about? Overall this is a pretty boring town compared to other places I've lived. Honolulu, Telluride, Bar Harbor, Burlington, San Diego, and other destination towns, but it's decent. You've lived in all the most expensive places in the country. And the most beautiful, all of them. Yeah. She left out Martha's Vineyard, otherwise she had it pretty much going to Carmel, or otherwise she had it down. And then two stars, very simple. Albany is a culinary disaster. That's a culinary disaster. Shit restaurants. Okay. And these stats are for the zip code of 1,2054, which is kind of also encompasses a bit outside Delmar proper here. Population, 17,100.

11:16Yeah, and that's a decent sized town. More women than men, 51.8 percent women, which is a way out of whack for a big town that's not like in the middle of nowhere, not like a mining town or something. 18,842.6, about four or five years older than the national average. Lot of married people here, 57 percent married. So it's a move up here, family suburbs, lower amount of people with children who are single, race in this town, 91 percent white, 2.8 percent black, 2.8 percent Asian, 1.5 percent Hispanic. So that's what you get there. Religion, 45 percent are religious. Normally 50, 50 in the rest of the country. And I'm going to shock you here, Jimmy. Get ready to have your socks blown off. Number one, it's Catholic. Strange. Yeah. As we know, Catholics are the baptists of the North, everybody. That's right. North, you bad. Everywhere up here. Let's see. We got some Pentecostals, a couple of Methodists.

12:181.7 percent Jewish. Oh my God. What? Unbelieve it to sing a song. Finally, it's been so unbelievable. I'm doing Hava Nagila. Nagila. Nagila. Nagila. Nagila. I don't know the words. Hey, there we go. I love that. Hey, unemployment rate is low. Meeting and household income here. $117,984 a year. So they're doing well. They're doing well. It's normally 69,000 in the rest of the country. Cost of living. 100 is average regular. Here it is 99. So pretty close to average. What? And the median home cost is within $800 of the median home cost in the country. It's right on the money. $338,900. So. But your buck stretches far. It stretches. That's wonderful. And far there, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So there it is, everybody. If we've convinced you, the Albany Capital region is the only place you'll be happy.

13:18We have for you the Delmar, New York real estate report. All right, your average two bedroom rental here goes for $1,500, which by the way, I just found out the US average because they've updated their stats. $1,430 for a two bedroom rental. It's outrageous. That is unbelievable. Here is a very, here's a three bedroom one bath, $1,076 square foot house. The cute little house, there's like a stone foundation. Somebody slept some siding on it at one point, but that's fine. Nice hardwood floors, a little front porch. It's a nice little house, but small, $1,076 square feet on a small lot, $299,900 for that. Wow. Which I mean, it's okay, I guess. Here's a three bedroom one bath, $1,528 square foot house.

14:19This is like a couple of kids or something like that. It's a nice little old house built in 1831. So very almost 200 years old. Yep, on .35 acres, pretty decent, $379,000, and that's with a recent $6,000 price cut that just happened like two days ago. Then, finally here, a four bedroom three bath, $2,626 square foot house on half an acre. That's kind of your typical suburban kind of home, you know, the two story, great, you know, the little garages and everything, nothing special. $725,000 for that house, though. It's in a very nice neighborhood. You can tell just by, you can tell just by the yard that it's in a very nice, all the bushes are perfectly crafted. It's one of those places. You're going to hire a landscaper. Oh, you're not doing that yourself. You'd be so frustrated. The first time you made a lumpy circle, you'd be like, okay, I'm not doing this.

15:23Sorry. I'm sorry about this. I am hiring a guy. Things to do here, the five rivers fall festival. Oh, oh yeah. Five rivers. It's at the five rivers and environmental education center. Sounds like a lot of fun. It's a family day of nature fun. Get off line, get outside and have activities. It says so. See five rivers. Let's do it. Interactive exhibits and activities. Oli the otter will make an appearance. There's a picture. Oh, Betty Will. Oli the otter who's just a dude in an otter outfit with a hat on. Oh, it's not a real otter. No, no, no, no, no. It is a man or a woman, I'm not sure, in an otter outfit wearing a hat. That says Del Mar on it. It's pretty ridiculous. Crows. Ruckies is going to sew them. Yeah. Reptiles with unsharted wild from 10 AM to 2 PM. So get your reptiles in here. Crafts and games, food trucks and live music, which for the life of me I could not find.

16:24They said local bands. Damn it. They're not advertising anything. I'm really, I even looked on Facebook for like bands that were advertising. They were going to be there. Couldn't find shit. So nobody's telling anybody. Nobody's lying. They're not bragging about it. So no, we're going to do a set with Oli the otter. It's going to be great. It's a family oriented environmental celebration featuring hands on outdoor educational activities, interactive exhibits, guided walks and more. Enjoy opportunities to meet live animals. Better than dead ones, I guess, and explore staffed exhibits from a wide range of local conservation partners. We'll have live music from local bands. Yeah. Oh boy. Can't wait. Held, rain or shine. Free admission, free parking and admission, but we do encourage carpooling. Tell me how to get there. Sure. All right. Obviously, but still that said crime rate in this town. Here we go. We are interested in property crime is about one third below the national average.

17:24So pretty damn safe for that. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. Also about one third below the national average. So that's all. That's it. Pretty safe. It's a little. A little leafy suburb and I pretty safe. That's plus third under the national average is pretty damn safe. Pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're like in a really middle of nowhere place. It's the only place we find lower than that. So that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? Okay. There we go. Hoof. All right. Here we go. This is a lawyer later on in this case here. I am going to read their words about this town just to set the scene a little bit here. They used a describe it like this, a very pleasant little suburban enclave. A bunch of houses, a few stores, some churches, a couple liquor stores, a YMCA, a skating rink and little league fields. Yeah. That's a town. Throw Walmart in there. That's great. That's all the stuff. It was by the same lawyers account that called it an essentially crime free community.

18:29The Bethlehem detective bureau had four detectives and no homicide squad. Wow. Nobody. They had like three murders. They were never going to need it. They had like three murders in 40 years. So it's not really. It's no squad at all. No, they just bring in the stateies when they have a problem. So they also said, I think there's been three homicides in the last 40 years. So obviously if there was a homicide squad, there would be nothing for it to do. So this is a very safe town. Basically, he said the police forces daily work consists of drunk drivers and telling the 14 and 15 year old kids with their skateboards to please get off the steps of the church. That's your job as a cop. Look for people leaving. Go by the church see if the kids are trying to do rail slides down the fucking hand rail and then go from there. So then use your discretion on whether or not we ticket this man for the drinking. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe he's as close to home. He never know. So he's going through some shit.

19:29Let's talk about some people. Let's introduce some people here. 2004 is when this whole mess is going to take place. Let's talk about a guy Peter Raymond Porco, P-O-R-C-O. That's how forensics file said it said like that. So it's Porco. August, he's born August 22nd, 1952. People around his job and everything around the community, he's known as gentle Peter. Oh nice gentle Peter. Nice guy. He's been originally that's fun. Originally from Norwalk, Connecticut, his parents are Ralph and Jane. He went to the University of Albany and graduated in 1974. So he loves this capital region. He meets a woman in college to name Joan Belzano. She's about two years older than him. She was walking to the library and stopped to ask him for directions. And he's gentle. Yeah, so he guided her to the library very gently and turned into a marriage after that.

20:35So she earned her master's degree at the University of Albany, where while Peter was getting his undergraduate degree because she's two years older than him, he then went to Albany Law School in 1977 or graduated from Albany Law School in 1977. Then Peter was admitted to the New York State Bar in 1978. So he's a lawyer. His first legal job was as a public defender for Albany County. And then later he went to the private firm of Ainsworth and Sullivan. And later on, he'll work in the family court. And that's where we'll catch up with him in 2004. Now Joan, here she was a children's speech pathologist, which is a very nice job. So they're both very educated people, you know, to be able to do that. She worked for years at Jefferson Elementary School and at the Shalmont Central School District in Rotterdam. That's a way that helps with like speech impediments and such.

21:37Yeah, I would imagine so the kids that need to go to speech therapy. That's I would assume she would either one they'd go to her probably. And those people are saints because I remember I've stations. I have well, I just remember kids that were, you know, third, fourth grade had really bad speech impediments. And then by the time high school came around, they didn't have them anymore because they were going to see the speech therapist all the time. And it's impressive that you can do that because that changes a person's life. I mean, you can't speak. You're fucked in this world. You're totally fucked. I mean, you can't do anything. So she's her friends describe her as very devoutly Catholic. She goes to daily mass daily. No, mom, every day, every day. It's a lot. That's a lot. Usually that's not something. It's usually old people do that. Like Sarah's grandfather does that. But he's like in his mid 80s. And that's where all like his social life is. So he just goes and hangs out and, you know, whatever the hell.

22:38But every day when you're younger, that's interesting. Also, I always out the door at 6 a.m. Everyone said she's an amazing homemaker and excellent cook loves hosting gatherings and all that. So Joan is well-rounded. Let's just say she's a brilliant speech pathologist. And does all this too. She was repeatedly described as perfect in a good way. Sweet and beautiful quote unquote is what a lawyer said later on. Now they have two kids together. They have Jonathan here. He was born. I want to say about 1980, but it's hard to pin on him. Jonathan's born in 1980 and he's kind of real straight laced guy. Helena, like an officer on a submarine in the Navy later on. Like he's real. Rebuttoned up officer and officer. Yeah, and then stuck around for the officer stuff. Well, I think he just went to college. He went to officer school. He went to like college first and then went into the military. Oh, this is a, this is a family of, think of a speech pathologist and a lawyer.

23:39If you told them at 18, I'm going into the army. They go, the fuck you are going to the fucking army. You're asked you're going into the fucking army. How to do this the right way? Yeah. Yeah, you're going to college first. Then you go into the army as an officer. This is crazy. So that's what an educated family would do that. People of our ilk would just be like, yeah, sure. I don't know. I'll go do that. I guess whatever. Enjoy. So front line. They have a second son after that July 9, 1983. Christopher Steven is born. He goes by Chris. Now Peter is a family is important to Peter. Seems to be the most important thing because he turns down I don't even know how much more money he would have made doing this, but multiple times his salary, obviously, rather than working for the family court system. He was when he worked at the Ainsworth and Sullivan, he was offered a partnership there, which means share of the profits and everything.

24:40It's a big, and it's a big law firm in Albany too. They, it's a very prestigious job. And he said, no, he turned it down because he said the hours would be too much for him. And he wouldn't spend any time. Yeah. Which is amazing. How many lawyers do that? I, you know, boy, lawyers are something else. Yeah. Instead, he wanted to work as a law clerk rather than a partner at a big firm. It's crazy. He wanted to have spend more time with his kids. And he also had loyalty to a judge named Anthony Cardona. Cardona moved to family court, and which by the way, one lawyer called about the bottom of the food chain in the judicial system. So there's not where the money is family court here. Peter followed him there out of loyalty. So Cardona, Cardona became the presiding judge of the appellate division. Third department, Peter went with him and served as his clerk. So that's he's just sticking with this guy is how he's doing it.

25:43Now, I guess one lawyer that knew him said people who knew him called him gentle Peter because he was the kind of person who would do anything he could for anybody who needed help, which that's who you want in family court. Because I'll tell you what, that family court, I've had a little bit of experience. Yeah. It is a expensive and be unforgiving and vicious. And it is cold. It is so cold. It's brutal. They don't give a fuck about you. They have rules that they abide by and numbers that, and there's a calculator for Christ sake. They plug numbers in, give you a number and tell you to get fucked. That's all it is brutal. And this, I mean, any guy who would like I said, turn down a high powered law firms partnership job instead to do this, they have to have a certain moral, they're not moral, but a certain character to them, whether money in them, fame aren't, you know, importance and cloud art, the thing is Jason. Yeah.

26:43Some other things he does, he's a Eucharistic minister at St. Francis to sell, sell us in Loudonville. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break and tell you how to shop way better with thrive market. Oh, thrive market.com. Absolutely. We love thrive market. It's excellent. If you wonder what is thrive market, well, let me tell you, it's a membership based online grocery for just $5 a month. You get access to a curated selection of organic and non GMO brands, 90 plus dietary filters, weekly sales, free gifts and the peace of mind that 1000 plus ingredients are already restricted. One annual fee equals priceless peace of mind. And that's what we're talking about here. We're going to, you're going to be loading up lunch boxes. It's back to school, everybody. You're going to be loading up lunch boxes, making sure there's stuff in there at the kids need that's nutritious that they also like that they're not going to complain about. It's a lot of pressure to put on here. And that is where thrive market can really help you out here with the,

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28:47And I know you've, you go crazy for what's the one thing? You know, seven Sundays, that's like the kettle and fire broth. I think it grots all of oil. It's a terrific, terrific program. It's wonderful. You get the, you get the right foods. You get whole foods. You get things that are not, that are not packed with preservatives. It's, it's great. It really is. You really need thrive market and thrive market is top not. You are going to enjoy this here. Use our link thrivemarket.com slash small town murder to get $30 off your first two orders. You cannot get this deal on the website. It's only through our link. That right there covers your membership fee. So sign up right now before this exclusive offer ends now back to the show. Um, he helped build a students in court program at Bethlehem High School. And he also coached youth soccer and didn't molest anybody. So I mean, he's even hanging out with kids in a good way. He hosted card games at the house for friends and judges and other lawyers.

29:51And he loved to go camping and canoeing. So Peter's a, fuck, he wants a life. He said, I want a well-rounded life. I don't want to be working 18 hours a day. That's stupid. Um, 1991 they buy a beautiful new house. Um, it's a very quiet street in Delmar on broccoli drive, not broccoli broccoli. Um, it's a two story for bedroom house lots of room. Very nice, you know, safe area. Uh, they buy this house and that's where they're going to raise their boys who are like, you know, 10 and eight at this point. And, um, yeah. And everybody said from around the neighborhood that Peter appeared to be a good and excellent father. Everybody liked, um, and everybody that knows them too says they're not like, well, there's no dark side. Like, they're not like, like we did the, the, uh, Kansas case with the pastor and his wife. And they're all, they have like five people. They're both fucking and there's all this big dark side. There's none of that here. Oh, like, like, like, like, like, like, that, like, that, like, that, like, that,

30:52small room where you're stuck in people. That's, that's another one. That's a different one that we had. Yeah. I'm talking a couple of weeks ago, the pastor and, uh, in Kansas there in Pory. Oh, yeah. That guy and, oh, if you've watched the Netflix documentary, the pastor's wife, that whole thing, like the long time, there's a, you know, a below the surface to people who act like they're wonderful in public. Yeah. And, uh, well, I'm sure we'll do a Patreon episode. But that is the, what the fuck? I've got so many questions. So we have no time for that. So, these people though, they're saying they don't gamble. They don't do drugs. There's no, there's no affairs. They neither of them are having affairs. There's active in their church and they're like, they're actually what they look like on the surface. They actually are this family, which is, it's rare, honestly. Whenever someone's showing how good they are, I always think that the dark side of that's gotta be so bad that they need the work, the better they try to make themselves be, the

31:56darker I think they are. Right? This is now what you do. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anybody that's like out there, uh, promoting how fucking happy they are, those are miserable people. Yeah. You're great. They are. Every time you should, how you should live like me, those people are fucking kids all the time or doing also all sorts of horrible shit. Never works. Yeah. So a little bit about their sons here, Jonathan, the older son, he's the perfect son, the older one. Yeah. Drake Raids, Captain of the swim team, got a Navy scholarship to go to the Rochester Institute of Technology from 99 to 2003. And then he ends up in the Navy as a submarine officer, because he knows all this technology shit that you need to know for that. I mean, there's Chris. Uh, mm-hmm. That's a dope acronym, right? That's Riot. That's cool. That is. I'd wear that shirt. Rochester Institute of Technology. I wonder if they lean into that. I don't know how I'm doubt they do.

32:56They would have to. Right? I would hope they look. But I would feel like the Rochester Institute of Technology wouldn't be like, just make some kick-ass shirts. The least riot. Yeah. The least riotists. Like fucking metal, Brian. I don't, I just don't see it happen. I feel like they're like, well, we need to put the letters so people don't form riot out of it because that would be terrible. Yeah. The Rochester button down. So we're going to look like shit with the riot. We're going to look terrible. No one's going to know what's going on. So Chris started working at the Bethlehem Veterinary Hospital at age 16. They didn't want to hire him, by the way. Because he was a teenager and they said whenever they hire teenagers, they get, they quit in three days because this job is cleaning up after dogs, cats, geese, ducks, whatever shits on the floor essentially is what you got to clean up after. And yeah. And that's real bad because they're coming to the vet. Yeah, they're sick. Yeah. So they hired Chris because a sitting Albany County Supreme Court justice named Joseph

33:59Kanazaro personally called and asked them to do him a favor on behalf of his friend Peter Porco and hire his kid. So the lady who runs the, the Bethlehem Veterinary Hospital said Supreme Court judges can be very persuasive. So he hired him. I'm never taking a call from one. I assume they're real good. I assume they get what they want at the end of the call, probably. Chris they said, by the way, among the non-vets there, the people that just worked there said he was, quote, just the greatest guy around. He loved the animals, took great care of them and stayed for years. They all said, oh wow. Great kid with the animals. Loved him. He ended up graduating from Bethlehem High School in 2002, where he was also pretty good student and like his brother, Captain of the swim team. So he followed in his brother's footsteps there. He enrolled at the University of Rochester where he studied economics and also some bio medical

35:00engineering coursework he did as well. He joined Sigma Phi, Sigma Pi or Phi, or they say Epsilon. I don't know how these fucking morons who buy friends spell their bullshit or say their bullshit. Fuck everyone. So let me get this straight. It's thousands of dollars to be friends with your people for what now? I'm gonna stick shit up my ass. Great. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds wonderful. He swam on the varsity team and did ROTC for a minute, but his grades were slipping. So they, he got to kind of kick that out of that. His own later on, it's said about him that when he gets to college though, he gets less serious in college as a lot of people do. Let's be honest. He became, he became a frat douche. Are you to, you know, really? Is that right? Somebody said later, quote, somebody said, let's party and he said it felt like a pretty good idea. And that's his college life. Yeah. It turns into Van Wilder when he gets there. He's a nut.

36:01So he has a completely false persona at the University of Rochester, by the way. What do you mean? Well, I think it's a lot of kids, I think, probably do this. If you grow up around your same area, your whole life, everybody knows you. They know who you are. You can't really reinvent yourself. You know what I mean? They'll be like, yeah, you're full of shit. What are you talking about? Whereas when you go hours away to college where nobody knows you, you can be anything you want at that point. That's what a lot of kids say. They reinvent themselves. The only reason to do that is if you're not proud of nor like what you are. No. Just want people to think you're hot shit and you want girls to fuck you, I think, as part of it, too. I mean, Captain of the swim team and Frat Guy and came from my parents are great, but I'm great. Yeah. What he isn't though is rich and he wants to, that's the thing. Yeah, it's not, it's a matter of, I'm a rich kid is what he tells everybody. He tells everybody's waiting for a big inheritance.

37:01That kind of, that's what I'm saying, that kind of thing. You're totally right about the other side of it. Yeah, this is all the other shit is totally everything I wanted. I can give a fuck about money. This is more like for status of, yeah, it's one of those things. He told his fraternity brothers that his grandmother was a wealthy landowner who owned much of the land in Fairfield County, Connecticut. He talked about million dollar deals and his family had oceanfront homes that they went to, none of this is true, obviously. They don't have oceanfront homes, they're not wealthy, his family, his parents do fine, they do fine, they're comfortable, they're not wanting for anything, but they're certainly not wealthy people, you know what I mean, at all. There's no oceanfront homes or any horse shit like that. Their house is probably paid off, that's what they have and that makes them feel good and that would make anybody feel good. So, and his parents are paying for his college, Rochester is a private university. So they are paying $32,000 a year in 2004 money for him to go to school.

38:05Okay, it's a, you know, and they're not wealthy. He's a law clerk and she's a school speech pathologist, they don't make boatloads of money here. So Chris has to figure out how to keep his rules alive with all the people at college of how rich he is while not actually being rich, which is a difficult thing to pull off. It's tough one. So he would spend money he didn't have, he had a credit card that he got at college because they hit these kids up with predatory credit cards with higher limits and they could ever afford to pay back and all that kind of shit. And then if he didn't have the money, he'd steal shit to get the money. Whatever it is, he's got to keep up this persona, otherwise what the fuck is the point of this? Everyone's going to know he's full of shit. He's building a life that's living for today because tomorrow I'm going to have to go scratch and claw again, which is crazy, which is Casey Anthony's hallway. Yeah, it's a lie that you're sustainable. There's an end to that hallway where you're going to run out of office stores that could possibly be yours and you're going to hit a wall.

39:07So thanksgiving of 2002, there is a burglary at the house on broccoli drive, the home, the family home. It's unsolved. The detectives investigating it said it just didn't quite add up the whole thing. Chris was home from school and the house was burglarized as it was over Thanksgiving. A window screen was cut to look like a break in and two laptops had been taken, including Jones' work laptop from the school district, which I'm sure she then had to repay. You know what I mean? So a detective boudich was here. He's boudich, boudich by the way, about your ass as master P would say. So detective boudich, he comes in. I'm only giving you his name because he's going to and I said it like that. So you'd remember it because he's going to come back later. So he said this all just didn't add up. So after that Peter and Joan install an alarm system, because they had a break in.

40:10July 2003, there's another break in and it's a cut screen again, window open, same exact deal. On summertime. July 2003. Yeah. And this time Peter's Dell in spirit on 2650 laptop disappeared. Which really, there's really a laptop guy out there is somebody's taking him. Funny thing is that same day we'll find out much later, a Dell in spirit on 2650 went up for sale on Chris's eBay account. Weird. Yeah. And also things started to disappear from the Bethlehem veterinary hospital as well around this time. A digital camera, a camcorder, pocket computers. I don't know what the fuck a pocket computer is, but like a yeah, it's like a like a this is like tablet, but small. 2003. We're talking about. Yeah. Trying to yeah, and a cell phone belonging to the co-owner of the clinic. We're stolen after the clinics arm alarm was disarmed.

41:13And then weeks later, similar items appeared where Chris is eBay. Yeah. So a bunch of electronics. Yeah, Chris has some problems with money that he needs here. He also has some problems at school. He was what's called involuntarily separated from Rochester University. For bad grades suspended kicked out essentially. Yeah. Oh, involuntarily separated is a very nice way to say tossed out the fucking door on your ass. That's he even want to, but he definitely left. He definitely did. Um, yeah, I guess it was for terrible grades. And they told him this involuntary separation is take a year off, get your shit together, go to a community college for a semester, get your grades to normal and then come back and you're fine. He didn't want to leave obviously. He's in a fraternity as a social life. He's got a girlfriend up there. He's, you know, he's banging chicks. He's doing all this shit.

42:14He didn't want to move back to his house with his parents looking disappointed at him. All his brothers fucking commanding a submarine or whatever the hell he's doing. And he feels like a douchebag. Yeah. You're getting university girls. You don't want community college girls. No, God, no, that is a big step down, huge step down from, from sorority girls. Yeah. Yeah. It's totally different. So for a guy like this, absolutely. So I think the community college girls are fine, but, you know, this guy, he wouldn't think it's different. So, yeah, I guess we got to defend him too. Well, who the fuck are you? I'm going to attack him, I his whole defend. My wife went to community college, damn it. I even, even I've never dated a girl that went to any college. That's a lie, first of all. Oh, no, no, yeah, that last one. Yeah, I definitely went to college. Very much a lot of college. Other than that, yeah, never knew neither. It's the only one. Yeah, they tend to, they found, they find us childish and dumb. So, crude, crude, yes.

43:15Now, anyway, he goes and enrolls, well, first he tells his parents that it's a mistake. He said, a professor lost his final exam. They just lost it and then said, well, fuck it, you can't, we're kicking you out. Because your final exam's lost. But yeah, there should be proof that I made that. You're right. Imagine so, yeah. So, that's what's bullshit. Then he said, okay, I talked to the college, mom and dad. And they told me they know it was their bad now. Okay, totally their bad. So, to make up for the error because they feel so bad of what they've done to me here. They're giving me my next semester for free, which would never happen ever. College is giving you nothing for free, first of all. They've seen the error of their way. Yeah. And they gave me a gift card. That's what's going on here. Next semester, free. Yeah, they gave me a punch card for 15 credits on the house.

44:19They punched it all out for me. So, I get one free semester. So, they said, okay, they believed him. Because why wouldn't you? I don't know. It seems logical. And for them, they went, well, we saved 16 grand. Great. Cool. Yeah. Whatever. So, he goes to Hudson Valley Community College, which is up in Albany there. That's a Hudson Valley is long because forever. Sure is. Goes from just outside the city until Montreal, essentially. It's just huge. So, at this point, she goes there and she's having problems. He's having problems there, obviously. He's having bad grades there. And apparently, there's an email from Joan to Chris saying, failing grades, you did it again. This is the subject line of an email. She found out. And that's how she starts this shit. Failing grades, Dash, you did it again, exclamation point.

45:21Okay, that's the subject. You just left and we can't believe. It's all, yeah. Sorry, is that what you say? It's almost a celebration in the, in the, you did it and almost makes you want to read. You fuck up. You did it again. You just left and we can't believe our eyes as I look at your interim grade report. You know what they say? Three strikes in your out. Explain yourself. Okay. Chris doesn't reply till days later. Ah. And then says, obviously they're incorrect. My lowest grade that I got on anything was a B on a physics test. Don't jump to conclusions. I'm fine. So these are just incomplete grades that you saw. They don't, they don't have all my work in them. It's, it's all fine. So, um, anyway, yeah. When he enrolled in Hudson Valley Community College, he just didn't go to class and then failed everything. He just enrolled but didn't go. Um, his grades came in the mail. Community college. Community college. His grades came in the mail and he said the registrar made a mistake.

46:25No one can do paperwork at these colleges apparently just with them. Um, so then what he did is he took his failing transcript that they gave him his failing grades and physically forged the grades into A's and B's. He physically went in and did like a whole workup on it to falsify this document and then mailed it to to to Rochester with a readmission application. And they went, good for you. You got your grades up. Come on in. It worked. Um, yeah. They wanted an official transcript. They said and there's a bunch of back and forth emails and eventually they just let it drop and let him in. So he just wore them out. Warm die. Yeah. I can't, I can't imagine working that hard to be able to spend 16 grand of your parents money to go. That's how bad he wants to live in a frat house. Fuck off. Fuck off and dick off and when he hear all the stuff he's doing also,

47:26he told his parents he only needed a co-signed $2,000 loan for school yet he'll later take out a fraudulent loan for $31,000. And we'll talk about that. Um, which is obviously Christopher is he's got some spleen and to do and, uh, I mean, this is this is really terrible, uh, financial behavior. Obviously, but the criminality of it. Oh, it's at at such a young age doing financial crimes like that already under the surface just and getting away with it. Mm hmm. He's really good at it, which is scary. Well, he's good at it with his parents who he's learned how to get over on. Yeah. And some fucking college registrar person who's probably overwhelmed with 10 million other applications and just said, I don't give a fuck anymore. Yeah. It's pretty all it is his admissions. Yeah. It's not like, yeah. And in his mind though, he's thinking, I'm so slick. I am. I'm so good at this. Yeah. I'm just teflon.

48:27So yeah. The loan is the thing. Chris needed $32,000 for tuition because he told his parents he's getting a free semester. Oh, fuck, that's right. They're not getting a free semester. This is Casey Anthony's hallway. You have now hit the end of the hallway where you don't have the money to pay for the thing that you said was free. So yeah, you've done all of this work to snow your parents, but then there has to be a huge amount of money. That's the problem. They believe you and that's all great, but now you got to come up with the cash. He said, I just need $2,000 to make ends meet. I'd like to take out a loan, my own loan for this. Can I use your social security number, a letter from your job and your W2, so you co-sign for me for this. They won't give me a $2,000 loan because I'm a college kid and I already have debts. Peter said, Peter said, I'll just give you $2,000 and you can pay me back. Let's why involve a bank in this like this. Well, fuck. Yeah. He foiled my plan.

49:28Chris said, no, no, no, I want to do this on my own. Rather than that $2,000 will do nothing for me. He said, I want to do this on my own. I want the repayment terms. Give me the information and I'll handle it. And Peter said, okay, the kid wants to get his own credit going and he wants to do this on his own. So I'll let him do it on his own. A problem was he electronically signed as his father as a co-signer on a $31,000 loan from Citibank, which was much more than 2000. Yeah. So this is literally he was saying, it's only 2000. Don't worry about it. It's going to be fine. Meanwhile, at the same time, he was emailing the University of Rochester saying, don't worry, my tuition's coming. I have a big loan on my way to cover the whole year. So I'll be able to pay you guys soon. Okay. He's insane. This kid. He's this is crazy. Now he's going to take out a loan in his father's name, not even a student loan.

50:29No, no, no, just a regular old bank loan. Then he of course needs to have a really, really impressive vehicle because you can't just show up with a, you know, an 87 cavalier and say you're a rich kid with oceanfront properties. You got to have something that shows your status as a cool guy. His is a absolutely fucking eye popping. I mean, searingly bright yellow Jeep Ranger with big tires on it. You could not get a more conspicuous vehicle than this fucking car. Bright yellow Jeep is so dumb. The brightest yellow Jeep too that you could, it's not like a banana. It's like some crazy school bus. It doesn't exist in nature. This yellow. It's wild. So on it, he has a W sticker, which is and a, and a bush chanio for decal.

51:32He's got big oversized tires on it, a big winch on it and all that shit. It's the packed in their Jeep, the loaded Jeep. That they they park out front like with one tire up on a rock and they're like, somebody it'll come in and spend way too much money for this. He's the idiot. Departs department threw up on this Jeep, just whatever they had. Yeah, just there's like a giant antenna coming off of it and like a, an ice cream cone from an ice cream truck, just anything they had laying around. They stuck on them and all the ducks, all the ducks. So he purchases this with a loan he obtained by forging his father's signature. He realized that's a pretty easy thing to do. I get my dad to co-sign on this. So he does. It was so recognizable too that everybody knew when they saw it. It was it's the only bright yellow Jeep with huge tires and a winch on it in the area. So bright lifted Jeep. There it is. Everybody. So anyway, so now he's really got a lot of problems here.

52:37Male is arriving now. Credit card notices. Carlo notices. Delinquency notices. All in Chris's name landing at his parents house. Casey Anthony's hallway is getting. Fucking tighter and tighter. It's starting to get narrower. This is bad. So then he has other things here. We know he lied to his friends and acquaintances about his inheritance. That doesn't exist, obviously. At one point now, his parents froze their eBay accounts after Christopher never sent item sold on eBay. Apparently he put stuff on his parents accounts, sold it, got the money and never sent the stuff out. So then they were getting dinged by eBay. Of where's that shit? So they closed down their cock. During the investigation, it was revealed that Christopher posed as his brother, Jonathan sending emails to people explaining that his brother died and he was unable to send

53:38the purchased items. I'm sorry, my brother's dead. He put it up and I'm just as brother taken over a stuff. He's dead. I don't know where the stuff is. So I can't send it to you. That's how he was trying to get out of it. Okay, but send back the money then. I don't know where he put that either. I have no idea he's dead. So I mean, I guess file it. I'd be with the camcorder. I have no idea. Get a lawyer. I don't know what to tell you. He's dead. So that's not my god. He like we know he also stole a bunch of shit from the veterinary hospital and all that kind of thing. He's also in a lot of debt from internet gambling as well. He figured that out early. He's an early adopter of internet gambling as well. He's a douchebag of the highest order. A frat boy gambling lifted yellow Jeep driving tool bag. Like absolutely. Absolutely. Everybody else is paying the consequences for it. He's got he's answering to nothing.

54:39Nothing. No. Then he got to the end of the hallway and his parents find out about everything because they have to at some point. His dad no time at all. No, his dad's the co-signer. So when he doesn't pay back, they go to his dad. His dad's like, hey, my name's on this envelope with the fuck here. So they figure it out and they threaten to go to the cops on him. They say, we're going to have you fucking arrested for this. This is crazy. In one email, because this is all very fraudulent behavior. I mean, this is very illegal. In one email, his dad here writes, did you forge my signature as a co-signer? What the hell are you doing? You should have called me to discuss it. I'm calling Citibank this morning to find out what you have done. And I'm going to tell them I'm not going to be on it as a co-signer. So he's in trouble now. They're he's calling Citibank. Citibank had notified Peter that Christopher had obtained a line of credit for over $16,000 to purchase the Jeep Wrangler.

55:43Christopher then used his name to secure the auto loan like we said. The parents kept trying to contact Christopher but he wouldn't talk to them. He wouldn't answer the phone for them. He's got a cell phone. They call. He won't answer. He just ignores them. Another email, his father wrote, I want you to know that if you abuse my credit again, I will be forced to file forgery affidavits in order to disclaim liability that applies to the Citibank college loan if you attempt to reactivate or use my credit to obtain another loan. So if you fucking do this again, I am going to the cops period. Then he said, we may be disappointed with you, but your mother and I still love you and care about your future. That's how good this guy is. That's how nice these people. That's unbelievable. That's how nice. Not and you little motherfucker, I'm going to slam your dick in a car door if you do this again. They instead say, we still love you. They won't cast them out.

56:43They're still nice people. Nice people. Unfortunately though, which they love this kid, it's crazy. I don't understand it. Joan wrote to Joan said, question Chris's mental health and said, please be honest, is there something wrong? You're not telling us your father's about to have a nervous breakdown. Why are you lying to us? Where are your parents? We love you. They're trying that whole thing. So this is the summer of 2004. This is all coming to a head. The fall of 2004, that the eBay accounts thing that all happened in October 2004, early October. By November 15th, 2004, it's the morning and we are at the Albany Court Complex. Old gentle Peter doesn't show up for work that day. And apparently he is the most responsible employee that's ever existed. Punctual. They said him not showing up as, quote, as unusual as the sun not rising in the morning.

57:45It's so unusual that he doesn't show up. The judge sent a court officer to his house to look for him. That's how. Yeah, the judge just dispatched a court officer. Which most people's, if you don't show up for work, they don't have the ability to just dispatch an officer to your house. Wow, these judges really, they can get people to job. They will show up for my clerk. Yeah, okay, and he goes. That's that. Yeah. So this is about, they give him till about noon. He doesn't show up and they go, okay, go over there. So, um, court officer Michael, uh, Michael Hart. He shows up and finds the front Dora jar, which is never a great sign. That's a whole thing. Dora jar. Yeah, not open, but, you know, open six inches. That's bad. And that's open. And yeah, that's open. Yeah. A key is in the lock too. So someone opened it with a key, just a single key in there. Uh, it's one of the spare keys they have from around. They have a couple. Not on a key chain, not on a bunch of keys, just a single.

58:45No, nobody's. Nobody's. Car keys dangling from it or any shit like that. Yeah. Now, he sees that, um, looks in the door and immediately sees blood everywhere. Again, oh, no, bad sign. He looks up at the stairs and sees Peter's crumpled form at the foot of the stairs with blood everywhere. Oh, yeah. So he backs right out and sees the house as covered in blood. He backs right out and, uh, you know, and calls somebody. Um, they said at the base of those stairs is the dead body of Peter Porco. Peter is laying on the landing to the stairway going up stairs. His face is pointed up the stairs. His legs are dangling off the end of the landing. He's covered in blood, saturated in blood. Obviously suffered tremendous catastrophic injuries. That's the, the layout of what we've seen here. Um, so he backs out and calls the judge.

59:47Doesn't even call him 911. He calls the judge. Hey, I'm here. He looks dead. The judge says, get the hell out. I'm sending the police over there. Okay. The judge just dispatches people places. You go. I'm all, I'm also sending a bailiff to get me some subway because I'm a little peckish. So we could do that. 911. You've arrived at family court. This is the challenge. This is Judge Cardone. How can I direct her call? Anybody I can dispatch out there? You have a, uh, I got a guy that just helps you do a barbecue better. Yeah. I got a guy that just help you flip your burgers. Tell you when to do it. He's, he knows everything. All right. So the first you'll tell you when it's medium rare. He's good. So you want to feel like the center. Your problem. You got a good, yeah, you got to feel it. So the first detective arrives and it's detective. It's to the same guy from the robbery. It's Baudish.

1:00:48Same guy. Christopher Baudish, the detective from the robbery. So they find the Peter is dead. A pathologist finds that he suffered 16 distinct, serious trauma sites, 16. These included a blow that penetrated his skull and another that removed part of his jaw. Oh, fuck. This is with an axe. This was done. Look like that. So he has a big axe thing in his skull where he came in and part of his jaws off and he's dead. Now that sounds crazy, right? It's a crazy way to die. That's not the crazy part of what happened here. This is this is the thing that we've never had happened before. Wow. Okay. They reconstruct the scene. Okay. And they initially read it as a struggle. There's blood on the floors, blood swiped on the walls, blood in the downstairs bathroom, blood all over the kitchen, blood on the table,

1:01:50the countertop, the appliances. It looks like someone exploded in every room. They're like how it's like a terrifying movie. Yeah. Just smeared blood everywhere and it looked like two people must have been fighting for their lives. Here, this was a death struggle and someone lost. But then they figured it out and they said there, there was no struggle actually from what they figured out. The blood, they figured that out because all of the blood is all Peters. It's all Peters. This is some crazy neurological thing. His, he went on autopilot and just started doing chores around the house while he had a, he had 16 ax wounds, including his skull broken in half by a fucking ax and half his jaw missing. He just went about his normal morning routine. Yeah. Not so somebody attacked him. He wasn't dead. He got up and just started doing things and left his blood all over the house.

1:02:53That's why it's on appliances. He was doing normal things. He was like making coffee and shit. Did he become like a, a, yes, like a zombie. Zombie? Dumber never tried an ax apparently. I just, yeah, I guess you just cleave a guy. That was the formula and he's fine. Wow. If you do it just right, I apparently he'll wander around and do shit for a long time. Unbelievable. It's the craziest thing. The coroner's physician said that there was no injuries that are instantly or rapidly fatal. The survival here could have been many hours, but he didn't know what he was doing. Otherwise, he would have called for help. Yeah. The brain was, yeah. Exactly. This is literally, they called it autopilot is what the, I guess, neurologists are calling. It's a phenomenon that can happen. If your brain is fucked up just enough, it'll do the things it knows how to do and program to do. And you know, it won't vary from that obviously, but isn't that crazy?

1:03:55Henry Hill in fucking Hannibal when he's got his head cut open and he's serving him his own brain. And yeah, the, how do you, what, what is it with us that we can do that? He's got to be a pain. That's a thing. They don't even think he, I think he was just completely, all the receptors are going, was going out, didn't know it was going on. Remember in Deadwood in the first episode, Trixi shoots that guy through the temple. And he pulls the bullet out and the doctor is like, he's still like talking. He's still doing shit every. Yeah. Stuck a fucking entire thing through his, Rod through his head, yeah, temple to temple. And he was like, oh my god, can I take him and study him? This is so weird. I don't get it. And it was some sort of like autopilot. He was doing, we kept saying the same thing over and over again. That's what's, it's got to be something similar. We're not neurologists, so I can't give you the exact medical phenomena here. But it's fucking, it's fucking crazy. He was doing like his normal morning shit. He used towels and tissues and toilet paper to try to stop the bleeding from his head.

1:04:59So at one point, when anyone, oh, I'm all fucked up, better, better fix that. And then went about his business. He gripped the banister. He actually put shit on his head to try to make it stop bleeding. Then he went and put on a long sleeve shirt. He went and put on a work shirt. He's getting ready for work. Oh my god. He then gripped the banister and made his way downstairs. Then stood at the mirror dabbing at wounds that he didn't understand because he was just like, well, I guess some fucked up looked in the mirror. I really cut myself shaving today. He opened the refrigerator and then started emptying the dishwasher. He's doing chores. He's doing chores. He's sad. The human brain is the most wild fucking thing ever. It gets crazier. He sat down at the kitchen table and packed a lunch. The man was lunch was fucking packed. He packed it. Blood all over it. He packed the fucking lunch. And then the most fucked up part of all, he rode out a check to pay Christopher's parking ticket.

1:05:59Christopher had a parking ticket that came with the house. He rode out a check. Blood all over it and everything to pay his parking ticket. He actually could write not just one. He was unbelievable. He was writing. Unbelievable. But didn't realize what was going on. Then he apparently he kept trying to leave the house and couldn't get out. They found it like all the doors. He like kept he couldn't figure out how to get a door open. I guess he was just confused and he was probably dying. Losing blood and everything else. Yeah, he couldn't get out. He sat in a chair leaning over trying to pull open a sliding screen door. But he didn't realize there was a broom handle in the tracks. One of those so it doesn't open. So he couldn't get it open. They just saw like his hand. He kept pulling at it but couldn't get it open. He didn't realize his half asleep. Like he was sleepwalking. Yep. Then he went into the garage where the cars are. I guess to leave. Oh, he put a shirt on and packed a lunch. Imagine he gets out on the open road. Imagine he's

1:07:00imagine you look over. And you're like, hey nice fucking move, dipshit. And you look over and you see a guy with a huge axe wound in his forehead. He's like half his jaw missing. Half of the jaw missing. Oh my god. So there's blood dripping everywhere and then he goes back inside. So he wandered out there. I was like, I don't know how to drive. I guess I didn't know where the keys were or whatever the thing is. He didn't leave. He even at one point opened the front door and stuck his head out. So he got out that way because there's some blood on the concrete right outside the door. So he must have opened the door, looked around. And there's also they also think that possibly the hidden key was from him. They think maybe he went outside accidentally locked himself outside, then used the spare key to get in. So they're they're thinking that's possible. The craziest day ever. This went on for we don't know how long. This could have been two hours. We have no idea. And then finally he collapsed at the base of the stairs trying to get back up the stairs.

1:08:03That's what was going on. That's why his feet are hanging off the bottom because he was trying to get up the stairs now. And his face is turned up towards the top. Yeah. That's that's what they find in this fucking place. What a fucking horrible explanation. It's the worst thing I ever heard. And the strange rather it be a struggle for his life. Oh, at least he has got a chance. This is crazy. He's just walking around on this crazy auto pilot with nobody able to guide him or push him in the right direction. This is horrible. So if he would have gotten if he instead of doing all that, if he would have just called 911, he probably would have lived. That's the fucked up point. They probably would have lived. So then they look around the rest of the house. Obviously they don't figure out the whole he stumbled around and did autopilot. They don't figure that out to later, but had to put that in here. They start looking around the rest of the house. Okay. Room by room they go through Christopher's bedroom. Neaton untouched. The guest room all made up. Jonathan's room undisturbed.

1:09:05Just how he left it. No open drawers. No ransacking. Valuables all over the place and plain sight. Jones purse is on the dining room hutch with money, credit cards, checkbook, car keys, sit right in it. Everything right in it. Her purse is there. So where's Jones? I haven't found her yet. Nothing of value had been taken from the house basically. The last room in the house they go in and they did this very slowly room by room because they don't know what's going on. The last room they look at is at the end of the hall. It's the master bedroom. They open up the bedroom door and they find fucking blood everywhere in there. Blood everywhere. They see Jones on the bed covered in blood. Massive head trauma. Her left eye is gone out of her head. There's blood all over saturated. They said the mattress is saturated in blood. There's blood on the walls behind it.

1:10:06At the foot of the bed, there is a giant huge large bloody ax with the handle pointing up at the foot of the bed. Just like resting against the bed. It's on top of the bed. I don't know if it's in the bed or what. Across the bed is Jones. So they walk in and they're like, oh, Jesus Christ. Skull cracked open. They could see brain. They can see brain. She has no eye. It's bad. She looks like skull completely fucked. The EMTs are told to wait outside the house because they said it's a crime scene and it's just two dead bodies. We don't need you in here basically. You'll only fuck things up. Then the officers that were looking around the room noticed Jones move. They saw her move. So they went holy shit. EMTs back in here, back in here. So they run in here. Apparently she lost part of her skull. Her jaw is shattered. She suffered brain damage. She's got throat injuries.

1:11:07All this type of shit. Paramedics run up there. They all said it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen in their career that this lady's alive. They all just thought she was dead. No, they've been fucking away. They'd been processing the crime scene for a fucking hour and a half. With her just laying there that alive. Apparently they thought she was dead. She's alive. That's a dead lady. No, she's alive. She's alive moving. So they end up the detective that one from the burglary, same guy, Baudish. He leans over Joan and starts asking her a series of yes or no questions. And she's shaking and nodding. Okay. How she can do that? I have no fucking idea. She asked all this shit. She asked everything, blah, blah, blah. According to the detective and two paramedics that were there. When asked if did Jonathan do this, she shook her head. They said, did Christopher do this and she nodded forcefully? Yes. Okay. That's what happened.

1:12:08So the detective had his camera. When they found, when they realized she was breathing, he was taking pictures of the crime scene. He was taking the pictures of her body of the room. When they realized she moved and went holy shit. She just moved. It didn't make sense too. And he also realized that he knew her because he knew this family from the burglaries that happened a couple of years back. So he was like, what the fuck? And he said, I don't get it. He said he saw the key in the lock, undisturbed purse. And he just said, this is a detective said, I could see there was no break in. There was no forced entry. It wasn't tossed. In tossed the house to try to find shit. He said to him, he's standing in the room going, this is an inside job for sure. That's why he said is that Jonathan is a Chris. Okay. Now where are the boys? Where could they be? Jonathan was at naval school in Charleston, South Carolina. So absolutely not.

1:13:09Nowhere near this place. Couldn't be him. Yeah. Now Chris says the first he heard of any of this was a phone call from a newspaper intern asking for his reaction to his parents being killed, which is not how you want to find out. Your parents are dead. That's a fucked. Yeah. That's a fucked phone call. And they said both parents were dead at that point because that's what they had heard. Oh. Because when the police initially went in, they said two people are dead here. That went out through the scanners, which probably were picked up by the newspaper who said two people are dead and didn't realize that one's lying. Chris said when he heard of it, he said, quote, I kind of dropped the phone and I was completely shocked. But what he doesn't know is that the police have already put a below out for Chris because he was identified by his mom as the one who did this. So they're looking for him. They put out a thing across the northeast saying he's armed and dangerous. And he's just sitting in his hotel room in his dorm room like a jerk off at this point. He's back at Rochester by now doing that.

1:14:11So another reason, in addition to Joan nodding her head forcefully, they talked to a neighbor and they said at 4 a.m. that morning of the murders, this neighbor, Marshall Goki, he said he was leaving for work. He's a construction worker. So he leaves really fucking early. He says that he passes the house and he saw the yellow Jeep in the driveway. Big bright douche-mobile. That's right in the driveway. Like a big sore thumb. He said, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that was Chris Porco's Jeep. Period. That's it. Like I said, it's the only fucking one. So it says. So inside the house when they're searching, they end up finding the veterinarian place. The lady who owns that, her cell phone was in a small safe that belonged to Chris in his room. He's still at her farm. He kept it. He kept it. If you can't sell it, throw it out, but don't keep it. That's stupid. He sold it. He just didn't send it.

1:15:12He didn't send it. Yeah. So that evening, I guess his uncle drove him from Rochester back to Albany, went and picked him up to take him to his mother in the hospital. She is now in the hospital in a coma having surgery and all his other shit. She's in bad shape. Chris said, I saw her. She was swollen and covered in tubes. And my reaction was I burst into tears. I fell on the floor right there. Problem is a former youth minister named Joe Catalano, who was also right there. Done the job. This guy tried to help Chris. He was there to try to make sure Chris was okay. Described quote, being struck by Christopher's odd behavior. They asked if he sensed that Chris had any grief in and at all and seeing his mom, he said, none whatsoever. It was weird. So Chris tells people he collapsed to the floor crying. And this guy said, I watched him just be like,

1:16:12meh, whatever. Like, like you told him the, you told him the Broncos lost today. And he was like, meh, didn't expect him to fucking beat New England and whatever. He is. He's got to be panicked, right? You would think, well, later that night, the police want to talk to Chris. That night, they want to have a chit chat with him. So they bring him in. It is a six hour interview. By the way, and I had the entire transcript to a six hour fucking interview. Do you know how many pages, six hours of three people talking in a room is? It's hundreds. And I could have read fucking war and peace last night instead of this goddamn interview. So this is crazy. Now this interview is also the subject of a psychological paper, a psychology paper. That's a very commonly looked into study that I'll give you the name of it and everything later where they looked at this. Because they look at this as an example of terrible police interrogation of the way not to get a

1:17:16guy to confess. And basically the way to get nothing out of somebody because you don't understand what they are and what angle to come at them with. Because you don't have a homicide investigating group. Yeah, that too. And some of it though is also just the, I think just instinctual. Some guys are some people not some guys. Some people are good at interrogation. They're good at figuring out exactly what this person has. They fucked it all up. We'll find out here now. This psychology paper, they're, they posit that Chris is a psychopath, like a genuine psychopath with no fucking remorse and no anything. So they're saying if you have a psychopath in front of you, you have to go at him a certain way. You can't go at him the normal way. It doesn't work. And so basically this paper is, this is the way they went at him and this is why it's wrong. This is what they, how they could have possibly gotten more out of them if they understood psychology. Interesting. Now Chris says I wanted to be as helpful as I could, the quicker the better.

1:18:16When they asked him directly if he did it, he said, I can't say enough. Absolutely no. That's way too many words before no. First of all, that's one, two, three, four, five words before no came out. And none of them really go together. No, why, why, why say that? Your answer should have been no. And I can't say enough no, but no, but no is first. That's, yeah. He said, I would never do anything like that to anyone. Let alone my parents who I love dearly, dear, dear people they are. Okay. Six-hour interrogation. I'm going to, like I said, try to pick, I tried to go through and really get the parts that were interesting a little bit funny or that mattered. So now in this, this study here, this paper, they list psychopathic personality traits as at the top of this interrogation to talk about. Yeah. They said interpersonal superficial charm,

1:19:17grandiosity, lying, conning and manipulative. I think we all could have put that together, Bradley. Effective, they under effective, they have remorselessness, shallow affect, callousness, failure to accept responsibility. Those fit Chris so far pretty well. Not bad. Lifestyle, impulsivity, stimulation seeking, irresponsible, parasitic lifestyle, lack of realistic goals. Basically every open mic comedian we've ever met is a psychopath. Yeah. Yeah. That's what that describes. All of those things so far describe 87% of every comedian I've ever fucking met. That last bit is so important. So important. Under anti-social, they have poor behavioral controls, delinquency, criminal versatility, meaning they can do not just one crime. They're into it. They can shift and early behavioral problems.

1:20:17Now I am going to read from this. They say the questions and answers outlined here do not reflect the order in which they were asked, which I tried to put them in a more of an order of which they were asked, because I went into the fucking goddamn whole thing and figured out where those portions were. Yeah, this wasn't easy. They illustrate how the investigator's strategy of attempting to overwhelm him emotionally was not as efficient as it could have been. You can't overwhelm a psychopath emotionally because they don't feel it. No. They don't feel it. Yeah, they don't have it. They don't have it. So that works with people that feel guilt. But if you have someone in front of you that doesn't feel guilt, that means nothing to them. They just go, I don't know what you're talking about. But every time you ask them a question, because they don't have that human emotion, that behavior, when you ask them that question, it should be oh, so obvious that there is a problem right now. Absolutely, but you can't get them to confess that way as the problem. Great point. The only way you can get a psychopath to confess what they're saying basically is it has to be

1:21:20more like a practical thing. Yeah, you got to understand them to where they're getting something out of, too. Well, you also got a corner until they realize that there's no way to explain my way out of this. Alla, Chris Watts. And you know what I mean? When they see that there's no way out of the explanation, then they'll they'll confess. But that's the only way. That's the only way and plus they have to feel like they're getting something out of it, too. And that, yeah, that's the only way. It's one of the two. They have to feel like they have a chip to play. This is a game to them. So they have if they have a chip to play to get something out of it, they know they're fought. And they'll use that to get to get something. And they like control. Otherwise it has to be. Yeah. Otherwise it has to be. We know that you did it. Just fucking say it. A lot of times they they're almost amused by the back and forth because it's a game to them. I think it's funny. So the worst. The coldest one. So they asked this detective, the Boudersky, ask what sort of securities would your parents have in the house?

1:22:23And Chris said alarm system if they remember to turn it on. Usually it's on. And the detective said, did they have like a medical alert or a panic alarm or anything on it? And Chris said, yeah, like if someone was putting a gun to your head and you're, that's how it gets on the alarm. There's like four buttons you can push that tells the security company that. That's like a panic button basically. The detective said some of them have remotes that you can hang or, you know, have a new or next to your bed. And Chris said they have a remote. And the detective said there was. And Chris says, I don't know where they keep it. They used it. They used to keep it in their room. He said, I don't know if they've ever used it. They got it because in the downstairs foyer, there's a motion sensor. And they got it so they could disarm it in the morning. But they never, we never used the motion sensor anymore. My dog used to set it off all the time. Yeah, if you have dogs can't have motion sensors. So the detective says, yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Which is a great. Yeah, sure, yeah, sure, sure.

1:23:23Yeah, yeah. Chris says so it's only set on stay, which means I guess all the windows and doors are secured. But the motion sensor is not on. So he's the detective says sure. And Chris says in theory, people can't come in. Okay. So the detective says, well, okay. So they probably didn't set it at night. Is that what you're saying? And Chris said, no, they normally do. A lot of times my dog would go out. He's pretty old. He's 11 or 12. And a lot of times he'll come up and wine it one of us at like two or three in the morning. And we'll let him out. And a lot of times they'll forget and they don't turn it back on. So that's what he's saying. How the alarm may have been off in the middle of the night. Chris says, I don't know if it was armed at the time. I don't know. But then the detective said, does your dad get up during the night? And Chris says, yeah, typical guy. I don't know what that means. He said, well, I mean, is he an early riser or his, he and Chris said they both get up around

1:24:275.30, I think. And the detective says, really? And Chris says, I think my mom has always gotten up around. She goes to mass every morning at 7.30. Just before work, she goes to mass. Another detective interrupts and says not to interrupt. That was my boss that just came in. And he just wanted to make sure that you're all right with talking to us. We're not in here. Did you hire? You didn't hire an attorney or anything today. Did you? And Chris said, no, the guy I generally talk to, he's an attorney like he's a friend. And they said, okay, is he representing you? And he said, he probably couldn't because of the relationship with my family. And they said, okay, but are you still okay talking to us? And Chris said, aha. And they said, you know, I mean, this is something that we, I told you, we're collecting information, right? Chris said, okay, back to peeing. Okay, as we got interrupted from peeing.

1:25:28Detective Bowdisch says, I mean like me, I probably get up to pee about three times a night. Oh, Bowdisch. See a doctor, Daddy, oh, you are not well. I think Bowdisch is, I think Bowdisch is like in his late 50s. So I think that's, that's probably, is that what you're doing in your late 50s? I always hear that. You get up all the time when you're older. I don't know. I get up, I definitely get up once a night, for sure, because I drink, I drink so much fucking shit. I pound like half a bottle of water before I go into my bedroom, like an idiot. I don't know what it is. Did I just talk to my doctor? Because I can sleep 12 hours and not pee once. That's great. That's terrific. That's good. I think that's okay. That's good. Yeah. Me, I know what I'm doing. As I'm drinking the water, I'm going, I'm going to be up and pee in in three hours. Fuck. And, but I'm doing it anyway. I do it every goddamn day. If I tell myself not to do that and just specifically don't drink anything an hour before I go to bed, then I'm fine. But if I drink like a half a, a gatorade and a whole bottle of water before bed, I'm fucked.

1:26:31So three times, three times, seems like a lot of pee. That's a lot of pee. Yeah. That's a lot of pee. He says, um, oh yeah, my dad gets up to pee a lot. My mom, well, I don't know if she does. So they said, the detective said, but then again, he doesn't have to go that far, right? And Chris says, yeah, he goes 10 feet if that. He said, there's a bathroom right there. Chris says, I've heard her get up a bunch of times. She'll get up when I get home usually. She's a pretty light sleeper. She'll hear me come in. The detective says, how you doing in school? Chris says, all right. All right. The detective says, are you really? Says not bad, which went from all right to not bad, which is not the same thing. The detective said, what's your grade average? Chris says 2.8, 2.9, which isn't great. And the detective said, really? And Chris says, could be better. Detective says, yeah, could be better, but you know, whatever.

1:27:34So they go past that. They get into his finances. They talk about his jeep payment, his credit card bills. And they're adding it up to like, so your jeep payment's like 300 bucks a month. You got a credit card bill with a minimum monthly payment, not monthly payment of this month. You have this, you have that. And they're adding that up going, how the fuck do you pay for that shit? And he's like, well, I mean, I have a job, but my bills are behind because I don't really have much money. I got to get like a more steady job at school and blah, blah, blah. They said, so who's been paying for these things while you've not been working? And Chris says, me. And the detective says, well, how are you doing that? And he says, American Express Bill, I think is late actually. I'm not really sure. And then the detective about us goes, hmm, hmm, a real long, like you can keep talking now. And they said, well, what about the car? And Chris says, what about it? They said, you said you were late on the car also. And he said, yeah, my parents paid that. So they're even still after all this shit, they're making his car payments, paying his

1:28:35parking tickets. It's crazy. That's the other part. He doesn't have any money. He's in the red and he's gaining fully. He's not even following the law of where to park the fucking thing. No, not even at all. He's a mess. Getting more tickets. So they said, yeah, sure, sure, was there like a high to key outside? They get into it now. Okay. Chris said there's a couple. There was one under the deck in the back. And he said, under the deck where? And he said, there's a nail. It's hard to describe. I think I can show you. There's one under the deck. And on the right side of the door, there's a planter. And it's on one of those little things on the planter on the right side of the door. And he goes into way more detail that I won't get into here. So they said, okay, is there anybody that works around the house, anybody that does the lawn, anybody that's, you know? And Chris says, not really. I mean, a lot of people would know our garage code and where the key is. So basically anybody could have broken into the house. A lot of people.

1:29:36A lot of people. The detective said, how would they know that? Chris says, like friends of mine and stuff, you know? So he used an N stuff, any you know, and then follows it with a like. So those are all horseshit words. He said like after that, he said like friends of mine and stuff, you know, like, like would come home. And there's an audible words. And there were times I'd use the key. I use the front door a lot late at night just because of less noise because I don't want to wake anybody up. So yeah. So he's saying I tell my friends the code or I'm bringing them with me. Yeah, that's what he said. So people who have come over and then later on he goes, he says, well, a lot of people have seen me like typing in the security code like my friends. So they'd be right there. They might know of it. So he says it's not as intrusive, I guess, Chris goes on to say, the detective says, sure, well, and then Chris says that was more that was more in high school. I would use the front door to come home late at night and stuff.

1:30:36The detective says, right, right. Well, that's why I guess I asked you if there was any valuables left in the house. I mean, in these situations and all of them, we try to find motives. And Chris says, yeah, and the detective said, well, that's the thing we do. And Chris says, right. Yeah. Okay. The detective said, so was there large amounts of cash? Was there Chris interrupts and says, you know why? And the detective said, jewelry was there. Chris says, I mean, my mom does have jewelry. And they said, stocks, bonds. And Chris said, I don't know. They've never had large amounts of cash in the house before. My mom has jewelry, but nothing, you know, extravagant or huge. No crazy, you know, one of the hope diamonds in her fucking bedroom, nothing's going to impress my douchebag friends. No, no, I mean, I could give to a girl and impress her, nothing like that. No, no, no. So the detective said, did your father ever have any problems with anybody from work? And Chris said, I mean, he's had death threats and stuff before.

1:31:39You know, as one does. That's real normal. The worst problems to have anywhere. Obviously, who doesn't? The detective said, right, when was that? And he said it was more when he used to work in criminal court and stuff. And the detective said, yeah, I remember that because they all know his dad. Right. So they're all working on the court system. They all know his dad. Everybody knows him. So Chris said he had, you know, people call, they're going to kill us and stuff, that type of thing. Now, the funny thing is, if that happened, he would immediately contact the cops and they would have a record of that, which they don't. Right. So and it's, it's people that he would likely be people he was defending. There's a record of who he's defended and they wouldn't be able to deny what they've done. Or some family of the victim or some shit like that. But yeah. And if you're a lawyer who's getting threats of, I'm going to kill your whole family, you immediately call the police after that. You're not in the mafia.

1:32:39You're not like, well, I'll show fat Tony who's fucking threatening. That's not how it works. Get out of here. Yeah, it's just liabilities of this job. That's all it is. It's a real, real thing. Yeah, it's just a little caveat to your career thing here. So he said, but you're listed in the phone, because you're listed in the phone book, the detective said. And Chris says, I mean, I don't think to my knowledge, he's ever had anything like that in years. I mean, he's an easygoing guy to get easy to get along with, you know. And the detective said, I remember when he was working there. And Chris said, oh, he's the best. The best. So they said, so how was your relationship with your parents? They said, it's good. It's good. The detective said, I mean, I had a problem with one of my parents. So, you know, I mean, you know, most of us, you usually kind of lean toward, you know, one or the other. I mean, you've got to talk to one or the other, or one is usually a pain in the, and the other detective said, did you go, did you go to your dad,

1:33:43and then you can't hear Chris said, definitely, my dad was more, he wouldn't jump to conclusions as fast and he wouldn't start yelling and stuff. He was more easily easy to talk to, more reasonable who's what he's saying. I love how the detective put that though. You know, so I said, I had a problem with one of my parents. Like, I can relate to you, buddy. And then, we're pals. And then a bunch of word salad, you know, so I mean, most of us, you usually, you bet, ba ba ba ba ba ba, fall starts. So they said, okay, they said, how was your mom? And he said, she would be fine after the initial reaction. So she might freak out at first then she's okay. The detective says, okay, well, all right. So let's, so just, so I can get the whole thing straight. You left town about 315. So I've got to ask these questions. And he said, mm-hmm, he said, all right, you left your girlfriends at 315. You stopped by your parents briefly on Saturday.

1:34:44That's the day before. Right. Okay. He said, yeah. And they said, right after that, nobody was home except for the dog. And he said, yeah, I went in, saw the dog and left. Where did you go when you went into the house here? And he said, well, when I opened the door, the dog came, you know, say hi. I went over and turned off the alarm and went over to the garage to see if there was a car, to see if my parents were home. So they said, okay, so you found out no one was home and you left. You got on the through way and then drove back. And he said directly back to college. And the detective said, right? And then they talked about what exit. And they go on like a three-page thing about fucking roads and upstate New York that you don't need to know about. It's very smart to do it that way because the specifics, fucking matter. Oh, they pinned them down to that. It's just, it would be really boring for you guys to hear. So route 29, well actually, route five goes to Hendersonville Road. No, it's like, oh, it's mind-numbingly boring, but absolutely necessary to set the whole thing up for them, not for us.

1:35:44Basically, he said he took a straight route on the through way back to the fucking place because it would take eight hours to get there the other way. That's it. So they said at this point, it's sort of a procedural thing in a case like this. Also, I usually ask if you'd be willing to give us a sample. And Chris says, sure, DNA, yeah, sure. Or the detective said, well, it's just saliva. That's all it is. It's no big deal. And Chris says definitely. And they said, all right, have you ever been arrested? And Chris said, no. And the detective said, you're a clean mother, aren't you? Which is just a hilarious line for some reason. I don't know why it is. You're a clean mother, aren't you? And he said, right? Clean mother. All right. What I guess, I guess the insinuation is it's a clean mother fucker, but oh yeah, your clean mother. It's stupid. Why would you know clean mother? Clean mother, aren't you? Then this next part, you're taking out a context is just amazing.

1:36:46Have you just screenshot it and have it on a notes? Hit Chris, do you want me to take my pants off? Detective. Yeah. Chris, sure, detective. Okay, just lift up your boxers. You don't have to, okay, what's this stuff? Chris says, I don't know. I've got acne. I know he's got like a herpy outbreak or something, but he said, I don't know. I've got acne. The detective says, okay, what did you have to eat today? Chris says, soda cookies hot dog. What are you fucking eight? How are who? What are you eating? This is a very Austin Powers scene. They like always have somebody blowing somebody in a shadow or some the day. Absolutely. Hammering a dumber. Don't look right. Well, he's looking at the fridge bending over yet. Totally is what's going on here. A wild question and answer that's sounding incredibly dirty. What's this under? Don't, you don't, lift up your boxers.

1:37:46Oh, you don't have to do that. Wait, what is that? What is this? Oh, I got acne. It's and then would you eat today, which makes it sound like you farted on them or something, which is even better. So he smells piss and is a sparing herb. A sparing herb is a sparing herb. So the cookies hot dog. Wow. That's a wild. Yeah. Like he's went to a nine year old's birthday party is what that sounds like in the backyard. Oh, you're in a four-page alive party. How did you have that today? So fuck. So the detective, this is a great line. Damn, you're not going to school to be a nutritionist, are you? That's the detective's life, which is hilarious. That's brilliant. Oh, and dermatologist apparently. Not that either. He says, no, and they said, well, you can have a seat. Just leave that off for now. It's getting warm in here. His pants. His pants. The detective said, it's like a friggin oven in here. I'm going to take my shirt off in a minute. This is crazy.

1:38:48That's like, just take this page out of context. And it's a fucking batshit. You're going to have to naked men sitting in an interrogation room. One of them with a gun holster on. It's ridiculous. Because it's getting hot in here. It's getting hot in here. He just got a college student naked. Now he's hot. I'm getting hot. I got to take my shirt off. 10 minutes ago, you were fine officer. Oh, my God. So they start asking them about, do you have an easy pass? If you don't know what an easy pass says, if you're from a state with no toll roads, an easy pass is a thing you stick on a upper part of your windshield. And that way you don't have to stop at every fucking toll and pay money. It just pays it off the thing. It's electronic. So New York, the only place that don't have that. Yeah, our places from Arizona going east south of the 40. Yeah, that's it. Everywhere else, it's always the 40. All has them. Yeah, we rent cars. They got easy passes on when we're done.

1:39:49They got a place to place. Yep. So he's got the easy pass and they ask if he does, he says he does. And they're like, oh, that's real convenient. saves you a lot of money, that easy pass. And he's like, oh, yeah, I love it. Probably because the through way and back is a charge. It's like, of course, like in the beginning, you used to get this sheet. When you get on the through way, that would tell you basically how much it is to each exit. And it would be like, you know, $40 to go to Buffalo from here. You know what I mean? Like a crazy expensive. So, and that was 30 years ago, 25 years ago. So the detective said, um, I was up there, what that one night, I don't know if you remember me being in there when your house, when your dad called about your house, getting broken into. He says, well, you or this other detective, I mean, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure the detective says, okay, it was maybe you weren't there at the time. Maybe you were out for the evening, uh, home for the holiday. Maybe last Thanksgiving. And Chris says, I don't know. One of them was on a, thanks was on Thanksgiving night.

1:40:51The detective said, yes, I think that's when I was over there, I think. And Chris says, I'm not sure. You are sure. And that's what that's when it was. The detective said, and supposedly somebody had crawled in through the front window. And Chris said it happened both at the same time, same thing. He meant both burglaries. It was the same thing as it was the July 2003, burglaries, well, he says the detective says, right, right. And as you know, the strange thing about that whole thing was that there was snow on the ground. Remember, that was a real bitch of a winter. But now it's hot. Let me take my pants off. Oh, yeah, feeling better. What should you go back to those days when it was cool out? Oh, yeah. So the detective says, right, it snowed the whole time and the front window, who was said to have been, well, the screen was cut, I guess. And Chris says, as the detective said, and the front window was left open a little bit. But I couldn't find friggin footprints in the snow outside the house.

1:41:52I couldn't understand that, you know. I mean, if it's snowing and someone comes from the outside of the house, they got to leave prints in the snow, right? Right. There's a couldn't, could never crack that. Chris says, hadn't it snowed that day? I don't remember, but I remember us talking about this at the time. And the detective says, yeah, but I, well, I don't remember that. I can't tell you, but I do know there was a recent, it was like they realized that day that something had happened, right? And I think if it had, it was just a dusting. And he said, and they had all this stuff around. Maybe I didn't have anything fresh and I just, I couldn't understand that, you know. You say, I'm like, no, I mean, wasn't that weird? That no one came from the outside of your house to break in. So he's beating around the bush that he suspects Chris broke at his own house. Or it was an inside. Nobody flew from your fucking window. So, no, who the fuck would have done it unless they were in the house? Oh my God, you were in the house.

1:42:53Maybe it was you. Oh, you were out. So then there's a couple just very funny asides. They say at that point, this is right after I couldn't understand that, you know. The next detective says, you hungry. I'm starved. We have pizza up front. Oh, and Chris says, I'm fine. Thank you. And detective says, you want to slice a pizza? And Chris says, no thanks. And he says, how can you decline free food? Which I think is a great line. How do you decline free food? He says anything to drink besides water or is water good? He says, water's fine. So they're sitting there after they ate pizza, they went back and forth about the pizza. He said, maybe I'll just get a bagel later and they go, oh, we wish we known. We would have stopped a Dunkin' Donuts and got you a bagel. We went out to get the pizza, you know. Oh, damn. We thought you'd eat pizza. Yeah. Apparently hot dogs and cookies are fine, but not pizza. That's, you know, health wise. Pizza already draws the line. Yeah. It's very, very particular about his pizza, is all. Absolutely. So they talk about his fucking up in school and they say too much partying and he says,

1:43:56yeah, they say, do you drink much? And he said, do I? No, bitch. Somebody else. My partner. Who the fuck do you think I'm talking about? Anybody else. Mostly naked teenager. Mostly naked 21 year old. Sit in my goddamn fucking offices. What I'm talking to stupid. What the fuck? I act. Yeah, with thiccny. They said, do you drink much? And he said, do I? And they said, yeah. And he said, yeah. And he said, has it become an issue with your parents at all? Chris says, no, never. I think we talked about it a few months ago. I used to drink in high school occasionally, about once a week. That's not occasional for high school, by the way. That's a lot for high school. Yeah. I'm not a, I can't use me, but I'm not a drinker. But, you know, people I knew that were drinking every, once a month, every couple weeks. Do you have a party or you go sit in the woods or whatever the fuck. But once a week is a lot. It's the Friday night, yeah. It's the Friday night party that somebody's parents went out of town. If you're doing that every week, that's a lot of drinking. That's a lot.

1:44:57I mean, I smoked a lot of weed. That was way more than once a week. But it was once a week was, I don't drink once a week now. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I drink once a month maybe, bottle wine. Really? We'll have, I mean, that's about it. That's about all I drink, yeah. Like, when we go out, we're on the road and we go out, that's like, I have been drinking weeks. So I'm like, hey, we're gonna tie one on and drink some wine tonight. So, I'm drinking pretty fucking heavy for a minute there. Once a week would have been chilling it out. But as an, a pay team to 20-year-old child, once a week drinking, that's high school. When you drink that, you drink heavy. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're getting it all in while you can. We got a half hour before someone's parents come home, chug that shit. It's a binge. Yeah. And this, this was not 18 to 20. This is 14 to 18. This is a nice, so that's a lot of drinking. That's a lot here. He said they never knew until we talked about it. I mean, you take your time and blah, blah, blah, because then it's inaudible. So they said, what do you drink? And he said, cheap beer.

1:45:59Yeah. Frat douche. And they said, do you? And he said, mostly, yeah. What kind of beer? Bullish. What do you think the answer is? Jenny light. Worst and bush. Jenny light. Shit. What the fuck is that? Geneseo, I believe. Is that the geneseo? Anything? I've never heard of it. That's what they, that's what the drunks, that's what the real drunks used to drink in Pennsylvania. Like if you went to my relative's house in Scranton, they had kegs of Jenny fucking geneseo beer. And it would be brutal. I think the detective says, oh my god, I've got to look into that. I got to look into the law. There might be a law for drinking that kind of stuff. That's pretty bad. Breaking his balls. Where were you last night? And they said, okay, this is Sunday night, right? He said, yeah, they said, so you studied for the test in the library until 11. Because this is his alibi now. He said he had been with his girlfriend before that.

1:47:00He's got a girlfriend named Sarah that he's been with for a bit here. So they said, you studied in the library until 11. He says, yes, they said, what, what then? He said, then I watched Total Recall, the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. 2004. All right. He was watching Total Recall. Would that come out like 90, 91, something like that? Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, the detective said in your dorm room and he says, yes. So they said, who did you watch TV with? And he said, me and myself at that point. That's not a good answer. People came in and out, but I wouldn't say they were watching. So it's Sunday evening and he said, I watch TV by myself. So you said, you watch TV by yourself and he says, yes, Total Recall. It's not important. I think it's on the computer in my room. But he kept saying Total Recall. So the detective says, so you went in from what time to what time? Do you mean, did you mean 11? Did you get back? And Chris says about one.

1:48:01So they say 11, 15 and toll and Chris says, not long, probably a couple hours. I watch Total Recall. The detective says, you watch Total Recall. Okay. Then what? We get that Total Recall. Thank you. He keeps bringing it up. So he goes, I see this long. Yeah, I just have to see it. So he says at that point, this is Chris. At that point, the R.D., the resident, the regional director, he, the resident, whatever, went to sleep in my room and I was in the lounge. I fell asleep. You fell asleep in the lounge and Chris said, that's where I was sleeping. And they said, when is this? And he said, last night, they said, oh, last night, what did you sleep on? And he said, a couch. It's a university issue. There's couches in there. They said, what time did you fall asleep? He said, I was watching. I'm not sure what time I watched TV until I fell asleep. So that's what he says out of that. Now, was it total recall? I think he was watching. Don't quote me. Momo's positive was total recall.

1:49:02So probably fell asleep watching total recall. Think so. So then they say, Chris, this was a crime of passion. There was a lot of emotions going on here. This was not a robbery, okay? And Chris says, I didn't say that it was a robbery. I don't know what happened. You haven't told me anything about it. There's absolutely, there was absolutely no arguments ever. Huh? Where does that have to do with anything? Um, so they're they're talking about all this and, uh, uh, detectives that I wish I wasn't, I wish I wish I haven't wasn't having to tell you all this. I really do, but I'm telling you the truth, son, and it hurts me to do this. I don't enjoy this whatsoever. And Chris says, I don't think you do either. And the detective said, honestly, honest to God, I knew your father for a long time. That's why I'm saying that maybe, maybe something got out of hand, all right? I'm trying, I don't know, you know, I'm trying to say maybe I can, I can help a bit, uh, a little bit here.

1:50:03Maybe all right. But someday you've got to work with me a little bit, all right? I've got to try. That was word salad meant nothing. Terrible. Teriace. I'll say all that because he's not good at this at all. He's bad at this. Um, Chris says there's nothing to work with. I don't know what you want me, you want me to come in and say that I killed my parents? That would be a lie. That's fucked up. I would never do that. There's no way in hell. You know, you think I'm cold and stuff? How do you, uh, how do you know what? Uh, you don't know what I've been like. And the detective says, well, I mean, I'd have to agree. And Chris says, you have no idea. You have no idea what I'm feeling right now. And, and the detective says we don't. And he says, no, you don't. You don't. And the detective says it doesn't seem like it's bothering you because when I talk to you today, at three or four o'clock on the phone, you sherdin sound really upset then either. And that was a half hour after you found out. Now they're starting to close it in. He said I was extremely upset. Detective said sherdin sound like it.

1:51:05And Chris says you're not being very perceptive, which I think is hilarious like. Then the detective comes in again with another word salad here. Detective jumps in and he says, look, look, let's not get temper short here, okay? When I'm telling you his fact, I'm telling you the truth, all right? That's why I'm sitting here right now talking to you, all right? Yes, I would have to talk to the rest of your family because of course I have to, all right? But you're the one I was talking to right now. And this is the information I'm having that I have and I'm telling you the truth. I'm not lying to you, all right? There's no doubt about it. And there were other people who witnessed it, all right? Meaning he's fought with his parents before. Chris says, I'd like to speak to them and see for myself. I don't believe that. And the detective said, what difference is that going to make? And Chris starts saying something it will make in the detective said, unless you're suggesting I'm lying to you, you know what? Look it. I've been in this business a long time. I couldn't lie to you because he goes on and blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:52:06So he says, maybe it was an emotional flare-up or something, you know? Maybe that's what I'm looking for. Give me something to grasp here. Let me get through the night. Chris says, nothing happened. And he said, and you understand what I've been telling you. This is not a robbery. This is a crime of emotions. And Chris said, I know what you're telling me. I don't know. I have absolutely no idea. So then the detective says, I mean, like I told you, in my estimation, that situation, the way I'm seeing it, was something happening out of a passionate moment. Chris says, you told me they were in bed. So I don't know how passionate that could be, honestly. How much passion could someone someone outside of that? Well, maybe there was a third. We don't know. He's not understanding that there doesn't have to be an argument that happened right then. It could have been something that's been bubbling for a long time. The point is the lash out is the passion at part. But he's saying there was some sort of emotional thing.

1:53:07Your father yelled that you, you, you, you, we, I'll back up at us. Yeah, yeah. So he said in that afterwards those emotions subside and the thought is what's happened? What have I done? What has happened here? What an awful thing? Chris says I agree. It's an awful thing The detective says sometimes your emotions get the best of you and overtake you and Chris says true, but I can't help you He detective says your stomach is gonna burn a hole in it the only way to stop it is to be a man So he's now this is directly from the psychology paper here Commenting on this the investigator is attempted to play into porco's emotions and manhood as a strategy to elicit a confession But the strategy got him nowhere Interviewers much must avoid belittling the psychopathic suspect Right not gonna help. They're just gonna fight you and push back Porco gives bland answers absent of emotion Neither do his responses offer any insight into the murder itself instead of attempting to get him to feel guilty about his actions in the hope of a confession

1:54:16The investigator should have remained calm similar to porco to ask questions match his demeanor He doesn't feel guilt so that's a fucking dry well is what they're saying there When porco's responses did not match the evidence collected the investigator should have calmly Confronted porco about the inconsistency and further allowed him the opportunity to bury himself with moralize That could be revealed a trial together with his lack of emotions just hours after attacking his parents Great point. Yeah, it's this is this is why these people are doctors About midway through the interview would detective from the New York State police was brought in he was very very matter of fact in his inquiry and Non-threatening in his approach. He questioned porco about his trade of grandiosity And that's this the detective said I'm still not quite understanding why you'd go around telling people you have all this money that kind of baffles me Yeah, Chris says no, I the detective said you put on this facade and Chris said it is and I've done it for a couple of years now

1:55:18They he knows he has to admit that because everyone talks about it. Yeah, I'm a bullshitter So the detective says what does that say about your character and Chris says exactly? Which is a weird answer to that Exactly Exactly, okay Interesting So what do you like what do you think about my new shirt pork chops? Okay, exactly exactly Exactly Then he says Chris seriously what no tell me what does it say about your character? He said you tell me what it says. I'm not this isn't a I'm not throwing an insult. What does that say about I'm asking you what it says Fair Chris says I guess it's an it's insecurity in a way Then the detective says does it tell you that you're an honest person and Chris says not in that respect no and he says trustworthy and Chris Chris says I think of myself as trustworthy

1:56:18I guess if we're going to respond and reference to this no, I guess I'm not So this is the approach to take with Chris Right gotta make him admit things that he does he has to get a point out is bullshit so that he doesn't have a way to escape it Yes, make him look right at it, but not with guilt because I ain't gonna work right right the detective says I mean if I if I'm a student and I meet you and you're telling me you're gonna buy a house because you've got millions of dollars from your grandmother Chris says true. He said you're basically lying to these people right and Chris says well, it kind of steamrolled away I got too far down Casey Anthony's hallway and I couldn't turn back. There's nowhere to go at that point Cops showed up and walked me into Universal what was I supposed to do? Of course I had to lie and say my office is right here. Yeah, the detective says no, let's not color code it and Chris says I know it's wrong and then he says the detective says do you consider it lying and Chris says oh definitely Yeah, you know, I'm telling them something that's not really true

1:57:21Then the detective says are you a pathological liar? Something you do all the time Chris says I don't think so. I mean maybe in that respect So then the detective said well what other things have you lied about this is good progress Chris says really one thing yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else just money. I don't really know why I got started on it It was in high school so this is from the Psychological paper quote this non-confrontational style the detective should have continued with porco the detective did not have to Brow be porco into the admission that he lies yet as the interview progressed he too fell into the same strategy the other Detectives followed which was to use use an emotional and confrontational approach um in The porco case the detectives initially gave Chris the option to choose the crime of passion motive for the kill that Produced no confession next the detectives pitched the morally repugnant motive for the murder these are both guilt-based though

1:58:22It's that's a problem. Okay. Um, yeah, he says the detective says let me guess there's an insurance policy Chris says I would kill my parents for money brilliant Which is totally the my cousin Vinnie I shot the clerk says right here I shot the clerk I shot the clerk I Kill my parents for money brilliant. Okay Brilliant they said Chris you Exactly. Yeah, they said Chris you have no alibi do you understand that and he kind of grumbles a little bit They said you have a motive. I don't understand and Chris says I don't understand what you think my motive is and the detective said well money And he said I'm gonna kill my parents for three hundred thousand dollars. I mean come on Okay, is that all it is There's a little bit more than that. He's downplaying the insurance at this point. There's I think almost a million in total Detective says yeah Okay

1:59:23Chris says why Well, okay, detective said people do it all the time and then Chris says that's horrible He's clutching his pearls now closing his cardigan. He's very upset by this virtue. It's very for that's horrible Yeah, the detective says you know what I'm saying you got to get this off your chest. This is gonna eat you up You know that don't you your hair is gonna fall out threatening with baldness Chris says I That's what it's gonna happen to you man Chris says I can't help you So again, this is from the psychological paper the problem with attempting to confront Chris with these two different motives is that neither motive is Applicable or matters to Chris. That's the problem. Yeah, we don't have any evidence that he's super vain about his fucking hair No, no, we don't know that he might be thinking about shaving it. We don't have no fucking clue. What's going on? Specifically, Chris does not reactively kill because of an argument he had with his father or mother Nor is Christopher bothered by the morally repugnant reason to prove motive because his pathological

2:00:26Narcissism reflects a highly entitled highly exploitive person He does not have a problem with taking advantage of others for self gratification reasons nor does he engage in a moral debate about The rightness or wrongness of a given behavior We even see after he invokes his rights, which is coming up the detectives continue to question him because of their frustration The detective says listen all right I've known you for a long time for a long time, all right I'm not going to ask you anything We'll take a ride and let's try to straighten this out. Okay, we're gonna go up to We'll go take a polygraph and make sure your or at least exonerate you So let's get in the cargo take a polygraph come on. It'll be fun. Hop in be good time We'll stop for hot dogs and fucking sodas and cookies. You'd have shotgun. We don't care. Get in. We don't care Chris says do I have to have a lawyer present for that? Oh boy The detective says no well at least it will exonerate you from from this

2:01:30And the detective at Chris says right. I want to have a lawyer present for that This is a problem with a guy who's the son of a lawyer as he's he I'm surprised he let it go on this long The detective said why is that? And Chris says because I'm not sure that I'm being treated fairly the detective says you're being treated fairly Oh god, I sure yeah Chris says well, I'd like to make sure of that The detective says well if you are accepting to take the polygraph are you accepting to take it and Chris says I'll take one The detective goes mm-hmm and Chris says after I've spoken to a lawyer Yeah, yeah He said why do you need to speak to one first and the other detective says well look at Chris Why would that be and Chris says because I want to make sure my rights are protected. I feel I've done nothing wrong So they answer back well, I'll tell you what I'm not going to run the test. It's not me You know if you're worried about that Chris says I'm not saying you're biased. I don't think you are

2:02:33And the detective said no, we don't do the test and he says I hope you don't I know you don't And the detective says well look it I'm just gonna throw this out to actually real quick. I had a rape case some years ago. All right I hope it was that he was investigating not against him. Jesus Yeah, he said the person went in and took the polygraph and passed it I shook his hand and bit him a good day. I'm serious. I'm dead serious right afterwards I found out through further investigation. He was in fact innocent all right and Chris goes that's good He's a self. He has does not care about that guy that guy can you he could have said I pushed him off a cliff in Chris. So to went all right. That's good. He wouldn't have given a fuck good care Yeah, the detective said that is why I keep telling you keep us like I said give us a baseline here And Chris said after I've spoken a little lawyer. I'd be happy to take one So then the detective says well, I'm gonna tell you this too I was just this is crazy

2:03:33No lawyer I've ever met has allowed their client to take a polygraph and I'll tell you why It's because they feel as though it's never going to be good for them if you're innocent though It will indicate that I'm telling you right now. It does indicate false or true Chris says oh, I okay. I know they work very well the detective says we don't do it So that's why I would hope you would just take it to eliminate you please Now they're begging him please Please I can plore you Chris says after I've spoken to a lawyer I'd be happy to take one Detective says as I said I don't know of one and Chris says I'll talk to a lawyer about it make a decision I don't feel I have anything to hide but And the detective says well, you know what if I felt as though I was it was still incriminating of the evidence I have right now I wouldn't be asking you to take it because I wouldn't need it. You know what I mean Yeah, basically said I don't have any evidence against you. So I need this. I've got nothing So give me a polygraphs that I can make something

2:04:35Was when he told him I have nothing Chris swelled You know, he probably gained a hundred pounds in ego at that point. All right um Chris said I understand that and he says I hope there wouldn't be Chris says I honestly believe that if my mother told you that I killed her husband you would have already have you'd already have me in handcuffs Because I said your mother not it No, they said your mother not it and they we think that's why we thought it was you And he's like look obviously, you don't think that's true because if you did Why would I be sitting here in my boxers being offered pizza? I'd be in handcuffs, right So um my fucking hot bod. Yeah, the detective said no, I'm dead serious So here is the psychological paper again. We see porco agreeing to take a polygraph with a lawyer present and how the detective questioning him about why he wants an attorney We also observe how much bolder Christopher becomes with the detective on criminal matters Initially during the get to know you stage Chris was more subdued But once he called the detectives bluff the ego centrosum could not be contained now you figured out you guys have shit

2:05:42And we could sit here all day and I'm not gonna give you anything and you don't have anything um Although the entire six-hour strike transcript cannot be transcribed it is and I have it. It's a mess The unfortunate aspect they mean in their paper they can't put the whole six hours The unfortunate aspect is that the detectives offered little in terms of sophistication No indication of a planned interview and had a conduct follow-up questions with information Christopher disclosed They appeared chaotic Spoken vague generalities and there was no match for Christopher who pressed the detectives for information as the interview progresses Um college is is whipping your ass It's yeah, you're not real good at this and he realizes that and you know What was observed are the detectives constantly being a polygenic to Christopher and trying to win Christopher's approval of who they are And then switching strategies by trying to make him feel guilty about what he did Hey, let's be best friends and then you won't want then you'll feel bad in front of me which they don't care about friends or feelings. Yeah

2:06:44um Police interviewers are often drawn into answering questions that in the eyes of the psychopath diminished their credibility or authority And this is evident in this case So um they have a A breakdown here of traits and his responses that match up to the psychopathic traits One is superficial charm Christopher compliments that the detectives are doing a good job as he said that remember Another is egocentric Christopher wants to know why the police took so long in calling him in to participate in this interview Um no affect or emotion They say there's no emotional display by Christopher of knowing his father's dad or his mother His reaction in the hospital observing his mother and none of uh none at the interview just hours after the murder lack of remorse he displayed no signs of remorse pathological lying He admitted on several occasions to lying to family and friends manipulative he took advantage of family members and former employers and forged school trend scripts and all that

2:07:45grandiosity he bragged about being from a wealthy family which is false He admitted to being impulsive impulsivity is one of them poor planning Christopher admitted that he does not know what happens to his finances in terms of not having money available And does not know or care about how his behavior contributes to his financial problems And criminal behavior they knew about his theft and fraud So it's unreal to take this long for all of this to be found out Yeah, it's fucking amazing Yeah, so they said the porco case is an important illustration on how not to conduct an interview And the transcript of the interview should be used as a teaching and training tool by law enforcement agencies of what not to do Too often violent crime investigators seem to overwhelm the suspect by playing into his or her emotional mindset to obtain a confession whilst neglecting preparation and planning of an interview Because of the belief that the suspects distraught emotional state of mind will not make interview preparation necessary

2:08:48Approaching interviews with suspects that display psychopathic traits by attempting to appeal to an empathic format may prove to be fatally flawed So they go on to really have a lot to say about this. That's a lot of fun. So One thing is according to interview expert dr. Rabin confronting or Donald Rabin confronting the pathological person with facts and details That are contrary to his assertions is like trying to nail jello to a wall Can't do it. So Anyway, the police in the newspaper say they're still investigating the slang no arrests have been made They said police talked to Christopher and his brother and that both have regularly visited their mother in the hospital Police were notified though. This is the Friday after the murder That Christopher has hired a defense attorney Terry Kinlin to represent him meanwhile both sons attended the father's funeral as well. Okay now great The nod is the big deal how valid is this nod

2:09:50That's that not a jone made that Christopher because that's all they really have at that point So that's a great question They said jay her jaw was broken. She was unable to speak was conscious and alert and responsive She followed the paramedics commands put your arm down stop moving your leg and answered with nods and finger movements As scored and scored as communicative on the Glasgow coma scale Which I did not know existed Because she couldn't answer open-ended questions. They were asking her yes or no questions He asked if the family member did this she nodded yes He asked if it was Jonathan She shook her head no he asked if it was Christopher and according to him he forcefully she forcefully adamantly nodded yes more than once And two paramedics back up that account who were standing right there Um one said he found jone on her back left eye missing jaw-crush teeth missing and head fractured

2:10:51Yet following commands and he watched her nod yes with a question about Chris Okay Jonas up coming out of a medically-induced coma days later Get the fuck out of here She is okay. I mean survives, but she's gonna make it she's gonna make it she's gonna pull through Oh, you know many hours she was in there Like that Yeah, that's it could have been eight ten hours. It's insane. Oh knows One chop more could have ended that That's it on that brain done, but it's just yep wow She had no recollection of the attack None when she woke up wait doesn't remember the nod doesn't remember any of that shit. She has no idea. It did this None no clue who did this yeah, I don't remember anything about it. Yep Um, but one thing she knew was her son is goddamn innocent and he's not the one who did this to me Really Yep, and they told her but you said before when you were going in she said I don't care

2:11:55I don't remember it and he wouldn't do that to me. So no, I don't remember it. He definitely didn't do it That's right um Now the prosecution that there's a neurosurgeon that the DA is gonna hire here who did this is a guy who did the 12 hour surgery that saved her life Well imagine doing surgery for 12 hours. That would be horrifying Not only as a patient as the doctor that would be crazy So they testified that the injured part of her brain the frontal lobe controls emotion not sight or speech and that there was no medical reason Why she couldn't have identified her attacker while she was On the bed being you know when they found her He said she she could have been able to do that Then the police discover all the dark side of Chris by the way um Because now they figure out the manipulated college transcripts the false grades It's more than just you stole some shit and put it on eBay and maybe stole your parents laptop or whatever the Jeep is douchey enough and the way you went about getting it is even worse

2:12:58No shit. Oh my god. So and during the course of this authorities determined that Chris had A history of anti-social behavior that included burglarizing this parents home Dealing and selling their computer equipment on eBay um Joan stolen laptop. They found it. They tracked it down It was sold to a man in California. The sale is traced right back to Christopher through his bank account um Police you were flew to two that to San Diego in 2005 recovered the laptop and in court the buyer said the seller is Christopher Porco So that's done Yeah, the Jeep now okay For campus and off-campus cameras caught a yellow Jeep just look just like Chris's none others do um Leaving Rochester at 10 30 p.m. on November 14th and returning at 8 30 a.m. on November 15 Uh-oh that's not good um Tolk collectors on both ends of the through way remembered a yellow Jeep with huge tires a winch a W sticker and a young white male driver

2:14:07Because that stood out more than any fucking car they saw that day You idiot get him could should have got a Mazda Pro de J and shut the fuck up and nobody would have noticed him instead Yeah, gotta be a big shot. W is it George W that W? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's for and then a bush chanye sticker, too um So then They look at Chris's easy pass Which he normally used but today it was found jammed down into the console rather than stuck on the windshield Like you didn't be red. So he couldn't be red, okay? So he just paid cash which meant paper toll tickets and we'll get to that in a minute here, okay Now here's the timeline they put together sunday November 14th 10 30 p.m. A campus parking lot surveillance camera records Christopher's yellow Jeep leaving the University of Rochester He said he was moving it off campus to avoid a parking ticket Okay, the prosecution said no you weren't you're getting on the goddamn through way to drive to fucking Albany Okay 1036 p.m. A camera on the roof of a medical center captures his Jeep headed east toward the through way to go to Albany

2:15:15Yeah 1045 p.m. Through way exit 46 in Rochester toll collector John Fowland says he handed a ticket to a young white male in a baseball cap driving a yellow Jeep with large tires He remembers it because he thought it would be a nice car for his son Oh, interesting. Yeah 1130 p.m. to 330 a.m. Chris says he was asleep in the couch in the dorm lounge Having given up given up his bed for a visiting fraternity president But the frat brothers who were up watching a movie in the small four-car couch lounge until 330 say he was never there. We sat there the whole fucking time And he said it's a square room and some couches and TVs It's not like maybe he was over there and we overlooked him. He wasn't there right So it'd be like yeah, do you know if someone's in your living room? Probably Wasn't like they were in a ballroom. So yeah 151 a.m. toll collector Karen Russell recalls a yellow Jeep speeding into her lane a young white male at the wheel

2:16:23Exit 24 is less than 10 miles from Broccoli Drive in Delmar. The house 214 a.m. The burglar alarm is deactivated using the master code At the house. Oh, yeah Yeah, only a handful of people had it Peter Joan Jonathan Christopher an uncle and a close family friend In case they go out of town probably to watch the dogs shit like that The keypad is smashed also by the way Oh, they said the alarms they said it looked like they were trying to hide that the code was used maybe by smashing the pad But the alarms memory is in a box in the basement logging all the shots were yeah So smashing the keypad didn't do shit and they said using the master code This is what the cops say about Chris using the master code was like dropping his wallet at the crime scene like dude No, it's you and you were there at 214 and at 151 you were 10 miles away You know what I mean? It all lines up too perfectly 215 to 454 a.m. This is the the the axe used is the families fireman axe

2:17:31Like to go through the wall or detract for a fire yeah the fire safety axe Yeah, absolutely. Yep, and they said this was in a dark room and also Peter had blackout shades for a sleep apnea because he would wake up Apparently This this happened in their bed. He attacked them in their bed 16 blows to Peter Multiple blows to Joan and the axe is left at the foot of the bed handle pointing up Okay, just for yep 4 a.m. The neighbor who's leaving for work to do construction said I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever That was Chris's Jeep in their driveway at 4 a.m 454 a.m. Company phone company records show the telephone line running from a pole across the wooded backyard A spot that Jonathan later said Chris knew well because they'd shoot paintballs at the junction box as kids gets cut A girl so the phone the phone is cut at 454 a garage window screen is also cut and the window left open

2:18:36So it looks like it was staged someone breaking in cutting the lines Breaking in 512 a.m. Throughway exit 24 Albany the Jeep reenters the throughway heading back to our Rochester 830 a.m. The Medical Center rooftop camera catches the yellow Jeep returning toward campus and Rochester 845 a student testifies she saw Chris jogging across campus near a bridge in shorts and a baseball cap Minutes before his frapp brothers say they saw him asleep on the lounge couch So the alarm log in the basement showed the master code disarming the system at 214 a.m. Only the family had the code We got surveillance video. We got toll collectors. We got an easy pass not used. We got all this shit. You know, we don't have Ah think you're proud of DNA. Yeah, yeah, then they get the toll ticket Oh, okay The DNA expert testifies later that mitochondrial DNA on the throughway toll ticket match Christopher

2:19:41At a 99.6% probability It's pretty good. It's pretty good chance pretty decent when you put that with everything else now through all of this What do you do if you're jone because You're alive You're obviously saying he didn't do this so you don't But wouldn't you be if everyone's telling you he did it based on evidence wouldn't you be kind of like oh shit Maybe I should be careful my son in right Well she buys in so hard she starts writing letters to the newspapers begging the police and And the papers to leave her son alone and hunt for Peter's real killer Yeah, absolutely she wrote one Yeah, is that being a good mom? I'm not sure if that's being good mom being support It's hard to tell I you can't I don't know how to put myself in the position of being I mean this close to being fucking murdered with an axe in my own bed in the cop to tell me my son did it

2:20:41And he's my son. I mean my husband's dad. I got all I have left are my two sons and I can't put anything on her. I don't know what she's thinking I got one of these and if I'm told yeah if I'm injured and I don't remember it and the other cop tells me that either of my kids did it I'm throwing them both. Oh, I believe them both. Yeah, one of them talked the other one into it. They were together probably as out because So here though. Yeah, I don't know if it's uh, I don't know what it is So she said and a part of her letter was I want to say unequivocally that although I have no memory whatsoever of the attack I'm absolutely positive that my son was in no way involved in this heinous crime That's amazing no don't remember but I'm positive So November 4th 2005 The grand jury indites Christopher for second-degree murder and attempted murder He's pled not guilty and that's it. They take him away a judge on

2:21:41Right after that set bail at $250,000 cash or a $1 million bond Um, which is a lot December 2nd 2005 he's out on bail He posts it his fucking mom and his family and his friends raised his bail Unbelievable. Okay, asked how he felt by the press. He said quote pretty good He's absolutely innocent and looking forward to the trial Let me straight away What a forward to it. Yep. This is where a lot of people say he was like living it up during this time Pulling a manendez like a full-on manendez party in driving the Jeep around Just living it up during while he's out on bail Um now where's he gonna live? Um, well Veterinarians that he worked for who known him since they were a teenager took him into their home Um, where they already have two teenage kids you know, let this guy in there He said um this this uh the veterinarian said I'm aware of evidence that they did find at the crime scene that makes me believe that it was not

2:22:48Christopher This point she's pointing to a fingerprint found near the cut phone line This fingerprint was never matched to Chris or anybody else Not anywhere else in the house by the cut phone line way in the backyard. Okay January 8th 2005 Big article in the newspaper threat to judges tied to you are dad slaying University of Rochester's dad slaying. Okay a letter that allegedly threatens to sitting New York judges And one who is retired is tied to the investigation into the homicide of the father of a university of Rochester student Um Christopher a junior majoring in economics had been questioned by the police about the attacks on his parents who lived in the hammer of Delmar According to the Albany Times union the letter allegedly stated that porco's death was quote a starting point Oh, yeah In addition to yeah in addition to Cardona who was the judge his dad worked for The letter also named New York chief judge Judith Kaye and Thomas Keegan a retired state supreme court justice

2:23:53The letter was sent to the Times Union in late December and the paper reported it Um, I said be because of its threatening tone security has been ratcheted up for the judges the Times Union reported The newspaper gave the letter to police Unopen because it contained a powdery substance which was analyzed and determined to be harmless This was in the time when people thought anthraxer and it was an every fucking letter. Remember that Remember that brief time period. Oh, yeah, I work I don't know. I work. I worked at the Arizona theater company and you had to like there was a certain procedure to opening the mail I'm like we're a non-profit theater company who the fuck this has nothing to do with any I don't think anyone's gonna try to kill us over here. They grew up. Okay um So uh, they said that uh Hefferen said he would classify the letter as a bra- wouldn't classify the letter as a break in the case It's just another area we're investigating Joan has been released from the hospital and staying with family and getting a lot of outpatient care They said we've interviewed her and it's safe to say at some point in the future will re-interview her

2:24:57So who knows if this letter's real now pretrial Okay, um several New York area psychologists and mental health professionals familiar with the case stated Christopher Porco fits the profile of a psychopath And they focused on his pattern of lying and deceitful behavior um They also pointed out his pattern of the grandiose perceptions of centering on himself as a member of a wealthy family and all that shit um While awaiting trial many found him to be strangely arrogant drinking in bars attending concerts going out to entertainment establishments and driving around Those out partian He's partian I mean what happens? There's certainly a way to uh Drown your sorrows and something but to be out in public like that when everybody knows what you what you're accused of Going at some point he was doing this Yeah, which is nothing you should be doing while you're under investigation Yeah, he's raising a glass when they said raise your glass, you know like yeah good fuck man. Are you kidding me?

2:26:01That's while and Still driving around this Searingly yellow Jeep to as well Unbelievable So yeah a forensic psychiatrist a psychologist wolfert said there's an overlap between psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies Christopher believes that he that the rules do not apply to him and he has a need to show off in front of people His defense attorneys a character by the way uh Terry Kindlin is his name Legend of the Albany kind of criminal defense area here um This guy had left Ethica college when he was younger to attend to enlist in the Marines where he was wounded during the ted offensive in 1968 um He got a purple heart a bronze star with the v for valor and medically retired as a sergeant then finished finished college went to Albany law school Did five years as a public defender with Peter Porco Impressive and built a career on criminal defense and civil rights He's also a pilot and an angel flight volunteer. I don't know what that is and a father of seven. He's got a lot going on

2:27:09Is angel flight is that not Never I have no idea some sort of make a wish thing maybe I don't know I thought it was like Taking care of people in a plane on when they're always more. Oh, maybe not sure His co-counsel is his wife by the way Laurie Shanks an Albany law school professor who handled the technical spine of the defense DNA neurology and um Making Joan into a sympathetic figure so they get some wins they win a change of venue Okay, they got bail they got the entire six-hour interrogation suppressed tossed all of it because the lawyer uh because a lawyer had identified himself to police as Chris's attorney And been kept from the interview which is Not quite a Miranda violation, but it's they call it a Miranda adjacent violation It's close and it's not it doesn't hold up because I remember in the homicide book they were saying how One of the things they know is like when a lawyer comes in says I want to see my client

2:28:10You don't have a constitutional right to your client your client has a right to you meaning they have to ask for it Not you ask for them they have to ask for you so they could be sitting in there for hours And that's not their fucking problem But apparently that's also in Maryland and New York there may be your little more to the letter of the law Um the judge does allow the nod in though The really the nod yes Which is a big fucking deal the trial is moved um To gochene New York which isn't that far for me Because the capital region publicity was overwhelming and Albany judges all had to recuse themselves because Peter worked in their court houses So there's no way now Other evidence prosecutors alleged uh that Chris asked two friends to take an economics test for him because he knew he'd fail it This is leading up to the murder so they're trying to show bad character in the weeks before the murder They said he became less and less social Due to the increasing stress in his life he became violent at times No, he allegedly choked one student until others pulled him off of him and threatened to kill a female student who was teasing him

2:29:19Oh To kill a girl Wow, whether jurors um heard all this dependent on the judges rulings on prior bad acts much of it was fought Um fought over well before um, so the change of venue like we talked about that's about a hundred miles Now the Peter and Joan each had a will if both died the estate went to the sons and with life insurance and death benefits the estate ran past a million dollars Wow, yeah, so the prosecutor said they're only worth 60,000 alive dead. They're worth 1.1 million What does that say? Fuck him Fuck him now Joan is supporting Chris this whole time She sold the house for $260,000 in 2006 and moved in with her brother Oh my god, yeah, Joan don't do this So the trial happens Joan is there every day um Both sides paint a very different picture of Chris okay

2:30:21The prosecution said he's a young man living in a house of cards through deception who invented a rich kid persona telling frat brothers at his grandmother owned all this shit While he robs from his own family and forges his father's signature and sells stolen goods on eBay That's all honest. It's all real Yeah, well the defense's version is way more like hey boys will be boys They call him a happy go lucky kind of goofball college kids who maybe did some really dumb things but loved his parents and everybody likes him Financial crimes that are going to be caught one day Talk about about two sides of the same coin that is you know what I mean That's what um Also the vet job now for the prosecution it was proof of tradecraft Basically that Chris had been trained to clean up after animal surgeries Trained in how to avoid biological contamination. He knows that very well Okay, he said but the defense said here's a kid who two veterinarians trusted so much

2:31:25Even though he was accused of murder they let him into their own house with their young children and everything else So that goes both ways Um also the master code The state says the alarm was disarmed with a code only the family knew then the keypad was smashed Uh, but the defense said Peter had the habit Peter himself had a habit of shutting down the alarm to let the law The dog go back out then neglecting to put the alarm back Um also the key in the front door They said that the hidden spare key was left in the front door which is a mistake by The him um the defense said a bloody disoriented Peter believing he locked himself out may have used that key while while wandering Either way Um also the cut screen in the phone line the people said that staging the cut in the backyard phone line and a garage screen to fake a burglary The defense says a cut phone line what raises the question of whether a professional did this not a college kid

2:32:25Oh, okay Also the surveillance the Jeep The state says surveillance shows the Jeep leaving Rochester at 10 30 pm and returning at 8 30 PM the defense says that only proves that he left campus to dodge a parking ticket shows nothing about where he went The people said okay, well how about the toll ticket with his DNA on it does that prove it right? Yeah, right Consistent might a conjugal DNA the defense said might a conjugal DNA could fit 70 Plus percent of the population the ticket passed through the hands of a now deceased detective who disliked porco Because Chris had dated both his daughters So there was a chain of custody problem with that they said he's fucked sisters Apparently went out with them at least Yeah, there's the neighbor the guy who saw the Jeep at four Um the defense said maybe he's mistaken his stepfather's a cop another neighbor drove a similar Jeep Nobody remembers one specific car and a long street at four a.m. They do if it's that that's the thing

2:33:32If it's a bright yellow lifted fucking Jeep they do and I have a picture of the fucking Jeep up post on social media It's very very noticeable from space. It's unique It's unique the Hubble telescopes that he's driving the Jeep on the fucking through way I can see it. It's crazy So also the missing blood here Um The state says he may not have gotten much blood on him he had hours to change and he was vet trained to avoid contamination the defense said Swingen acts 15 or 20 times and you're covered the Jeep torn down bolt by bolt held not a molecule no blood because he didn't do it Wow Now the the burglaries the state says a documented powered pattern of staged break ins and ebay sales the same playbook The murder night the defense said even a staged burglary link to Chris has no direct link to the homicide Even though he's done this before as matter of fact the defense has alternate suspects

2:34:33Oh, is that right? We have Fucking options for you. Oh theory one is the mafia did this So yeah the mafia by the way the porkers are of course clearly. They usually do hits with giant fucking axes Yeah, that's how it works and just leave people they make they don't make sure they're dead either they just whatever um Well, they said Peter allegedly had a relative named frank the fireman porco who's a rep Reputed banana family captain Who got a suspiciously short 24 months on a conspiracy to commit murder conviction Which the defense attorney argued smelled like a cooperation deal and a snitches family as a target So their their thing is this guy cooperated. He's a snitch. So Peter and Joan were attacked because it is relatives a snitch and Peter's the fireman got a short sentence. Yeah, that's it And the fireman's axe left on the bed. Oh, he's the fireman porco. Yeah, that was like they said that was the you know

2:35:39Horse head in the bed is what they said that's how you know. Yeah, what it was for yeah Um, that's how it was A theory he tried to bolster this guy by moving into evidence a newspaper story about a councilwoman who'd found a severed horses head in her pool Okay, another alternate suspect is an angry litigant and they even have one in mind They even have an angry litigant in mind. Yes, Peter and judge cardona had years earlier in family court Worked a custody case whose losing party allegedly threatened to quote Yikes, okay. Well here a couple of fun words here to quote get those two guineas and that fat kike That's what they fucking said A thread who said that where that could be documented The apparently they set it out loud to people all the time that was what they kept saying Um, this Christ

2:36:41Interesting, the man's gonna call the guineas fat. That's normal. That's usually how it goes So I think we got off easy on My family law situation was pretty contentious. I've never Resorted to racial slurs I wouldn't even think of that in that scenario. I'd be like oh Oh, that was the last thing you'd be thinking of This was a threat that was actually credible because they pulled Christopher He was evacuated from elementary school over it. So they were actually taking that seriously Another theory is a stranger in the driveway Joan told more than one person that weeks before the attack a stranger had walked up her driveway and fled when the motion light came on And then Jonathan under oath confirmed that his mother had told him about that as well Um Now um to all of these the prosecutor's answer was we checked the leads went nowhere This was a methodical investigation

2:37:41This is that's leads to nothing So in the opening statements the prosecutor builds this big Thing here yellow Jeep told all the shit we went over here um The consistent post-murder story of I slept on the couch in the dorm only to have his own frappe brother say that's horseshit um The state said we marched everybody who was in that lounge that night and they all said porco wasn't there um He walks through the incredible Horror that he calls it the morning routine of the dying father the fucking auto pilot person the low look This forged loans the mad emails over a million dollars in a state and life insurance Um, they called it a house of cards collapsing in the exact week Peter died the hallway was ending You know His thesis on the alarm code became this they said using the master code was like dropping the wallet at the crime scene Um He said it's not a rush to judgment. It's a case built on a dying woman's nod and I said it's not even that It's based on the investigation that went on for a year to confirm that Joan was right. It's the interest them for a year

2:38:47um the defense here The um Very interesting here. They said the defense right away said that was without a doubt one of the most riveting opening statements I've heard in all my life about the prosecution statement. Yeah, he said that yeah, and he said he emits He stole shit from his mom. He stole shit and put it on eBay He said chakris's life was a mess, but those two things don't go together The defense also turned the cars visibility into an argument for innocence Quote if I was wearing a white wedding dress right now in a pair of pink sneakers out here I would basically be the human equivalent of g Christopher's Jeep Yeah, okay. He said you do not commit a secret 460 mile round trip axe murder in the most conspicuous vehicle that has ever touched as fault with fucking rubber It's just he said you don't hide it at a Jeep like this and He said he's good at it. We're just saying he did it. He said when police seized it drove it back to Albany on a flatbed and took it apart bolt by bolt at the lab they found

2:39:53Wendy's wrappers crushed up cups from a fast food restaurant This is the defense said college kid junk blood not a molecule nothing Okay Also the nod they said the conversation as far as from the conversation as you can get and still be alive And he said the room was dark blackout shades all this shit Joan was a sleep when the axe came down through her face and had no opportunity to observe her silent um They also mocked the absence of any mental status exam recalling His own head injury and standard questions of what country are you in who's the president what year is it and that nobody thought to ask This woman with her brain exposed any of those questions And they also said that um She could have just simply have been responding to the name Christopher Because that's her son and she knows who that is They don't know The only forensic trace of Chris at the scene the prosecution admitted was a single fingerprint on the outside of the basement door

2:40:55Where the dog had been shot in uh door the family said was never shot on the dog so he also put the dog away as well um to build a character case The police found out across the University of Rochester and interviewed 276 students you in using questionnaires The defense called a hoot A hoot that was a real hoot Yeah, they they search forms and vein for a single question like did Chris Porco ever do you a favor and found only prompts fishing for the bad Was he mean did he lie did he push people around none of nothing good um He said this whole year-long effort was just a thesis of confirmation bias delivered at full volume He said if police found a fact that fit their theory they fell in love with it They encased it in concrete and they brought it back to Albany and made it a brick in their case If a fact didn't fit they gave it the old side words kick get out of here Then they talked about the mob and the fireman's act and all that and they said the state's theory was at bizarre grotesque

2:42:01Fairytale that the grim brothers if they were smoking crack couldn't think up That's a visual for you the grim brothers just Fucking Suck in the glass dick the grim brothers think it's not bad for them really wrong The brothers grim create some really wild shit would have on crack And they still couldn't figure this out they got all their crack from a soft too, which is another problem So I mean People are nuts Witnesses the veterinary and employer said he trained Chris to avoid contamination Uh There a Jonathan that there's also a Christ almighty hours long interrogation of Jonathan as well that I didn't get into but I mean I got into it But I didn't put it in here, but I read shitloads of it for nothing so fuck Um he described the lay out of the house the alarm the axe the wills the family all in a flat careful military monotone Um He said he laid it all down the master code was 4 4 1 6

2:43:03The axe with the red head and wooden handle and the wills testifying that he knew if both parents died He and Chris were the beneficiaries um When they asked him to describe his current relationship with his brother He said quote it's been strained recently It's weird You know since he tried to axe murder my parents. It's been yeah, you know up in the air Uh They jone is there every day during a break in proceedings jone comforts young Chris at his birthday That they have for him and whatever little room they have there Um The defenses case since we've laid out the prosecutions the defense neurologist um Who was actually treating jone Said following a simple command she testified she doesn't require memory and lives in a different part of the brain Then the function that lets you understand and answer a question about who hurt you She said there was no real verification that she could use yes and no correctly because after a brain injury Many people use them incorrectly or have a bias toward one or the other because their brain isn't working

2:44:07All that's her off your brain has a fucking axe through it Yep a DNA expert said we cannot say for sure that the DNA on that ticket is mr. Porcos jone testifies Oh boy, jone gets up there Stakes this is f**k scarred whispering one eye gone she told jurors it's from a newspaper She had no memory of the attack and no memory of accusing anyone and that her son was a kind Loving compassionate person who reminded her of her son peter She said I know my son. I know he could not have committed those these acts Her husband peter her husband. What would I say? Yeah her son peter. I meant husband. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah her husband So she's saying uh christen's as gentle as peter's He's a great guy. Yep. He's gentle christen. That's what we're gonna start calling from now on The verdict comes in and he is found guilty of second-degree murder and second-degree attempted murder Now the verdict came back so fast of jury was out for a very short amount of time

2:45:10Yeah, when they said they leave and they go okay. Well see everybody tomorrow or in a few hours. So Joan wasn't even there to hear it She wasn't in the room yet because it happened too fast Chris said will you please will you please be the one to tell my mother he tells his lawyer jurors made a point they actually wrote a note for Joan To tell them that her nod played no part in the verdict Because they felt bad for her that she would feel guilty that her nod put her son there They're not so they yeah, they said we believe that she didn't know what she was nodding to we threw that out We could dismiss it completely We don't care what she was nodding at he drove To fucking to your house Maybe get a less conspicuous car dummy just a thought you know Mitigating evidence here comes sentencing lot there's a lot of Aggravating shit for submitting stuff here Joan asked the judge for concurrent sentences not consecutive sentences So maybe she might live to see her son be free

2:46:12Okay, the judge says I fear very much What happened in the early morning hours of November 15th is something that could happen again You sir May fuck off 25 years to life on each count consecutive 50 years minimum before parole Um, he'd be parole eligible in December of 2052 at 69 years old Oh shit, that's brutal um, yeah after his conviction He insisted in an interview that the his father's true killers were still out there He said at this point I have very little confidence that they will ever be caught well. No Well then why haven't prison done it again. Why has yeah, why is there why is nobody else for acts to bet yeah Yeah 2006 there's a 48 hours episode here um, which is into uh there um He actually said if I wanted to sneak home on the throughway, why would I take a big yellow car

2:47:14Yes, stupid. That's a more wonder. Yes. Why did you do that Chris? Fuck 2009 forensic files episode um, he appeals the appellate division third department in the New York court of appeals rejects his direct appeals They also reject his 2011 confirmation clause fight over Jones nod um, the US Supreme Court twice declined to hear the case 2013 will do this very quickly. There is a life a lifetime movie based on this That he sues lifetime over This is very interesting um Um, well anyway that by the way it stars Lolita Davidovich and uh the guy who played uh, I'm Will and Grace the Fucking brown haired guy will Eric McCormick. Yeah, well. Yeah, will it's got will and Lolita Lolita Davidavitch in this movie It's called Romeo killer the Chris Porco story Which makes no sense and it says it was sling and dick in college. That's what the well the the description is a charming

2:48:18But devious college student is accused of killing his wealthy father and attempting to murder his mother in their home while they slept A lot of that isn't true and that's what it is he sues to block it arguing it was fictionalized He said okay, cuz newsworthiness makes it so we can say whatever we want based on the facts and put this out because it's newsworthy We can put his picture up from a newspaper on our site. We can do shit like that But if we made it up we can't do that. Yeah That's through some extra details in there like his brother molested him for 12 years And I knew it we and we knew it was wrong and it wasn't like published somewhere where we could be accidentally think it was right Yeah, so he sued as far as I know No, we know of no dittling in the household He sued lifetime to seek the bra the block of the broadcast under New York civil rights law section 51 Which is the privacy law Section 51 functions as a right of publicity law that bars the use of a living person's name portrait or picture for advertising purposes or the purpose of trade

2:49:19Porco alleges that the docu drama violated his rights under section 51 because it uses his name without permission And is not protected by the newsworthiness defense as understood under New York case law because the film is substantially fictionalized So they they tried to make it about him but also too far Um, sure he moved for a temporary restraining order which was granted by the court By the way the newspapers are all like fuck this bullshit. This is crazy that you're doing this you have to let lifetime do this And they eventually do Um, they went back and forth it aired in 2013, but he kept suing Um, it was reversed and the trial court granted lifetimes motion to dismiss the case in 2017 there's another reversal holding that porco's complaint did state acclaim for violation to the statutory right to privacy Then the New York appellacourt reverses the dismissal action against lifetime for let it's crazy. It goes back and forth for years On remand to the trial court both sides moved for a summary judgment in May 2020

2:50:23Years seven years later the court denied the party's cross motions for summary judgment holding that the issue of whether the docu drama was materially and substantially fictitious Must go to a jury So it keeps going and keeps going and keeps going 2016 his defense attorney retired after winning an acquittal in his final uh his final case here that's clindin or clindlin Kindlin sorry um Okay, hold on to that for a second 2016 zone loses a pension case against the state of New York teachers pension thing I don't know how the fuck that works, but It's very interesting um 2019 she joins his lawsuit against lifetime putting her hat to 2022 she signs a sworn affidavit supporting Uh Chris's latest bid to overturn his conviction writing that she is certain that a gross miscarriage of justice has occurred uh January 2023 a long-isle in law firm uh

2:51:24Barca Epstein Kirin al-Dia and low Tercoh They apparently filed a motion to vacate the conviction alleging ineffective assistance by Kindlin and shanks suppressed evidence and above all an impossible timeline they say the trial defense never broke uh broke down Okay, they said could anyone dry from Rochester in the dead of night commit a blood bath clean up I gas unseen and be back on campus by 8 30 a.m um, okay So Kindlin and shanks as original attorneys say they dispute any assertion that we did not give him a full and vigorous defense and they're known as really good really thorough really Really, you know top tier lawyers in the area so um They also say that that a detective with the Bethlehem Police Department at a prior relationship because of the daughter thing and they alleged as detective didn't like porco Shunna been allowed to work the case They also say there's no fingerprints on the axe no blood in the jeep and Joan recanted her nod

2:52:26um Okay They cite a pathologist to look at the evidence and determine that Peter could not have died when police said he did undermining the prosecution's case And porco's team said police were aware of a potential alibi witness that would have placed Chris on campus in Rochester At the exact time the police say he was driving down the through way to commit the murder They further alleged this information was deliberately buried in a mountain of paperwork. So porco's lawyers would miss it But that's not how it works um He also doesn't enter was very careful and read every fucking word Yeah, he does an interview from prison with John Gray and He said I I didn't commit this. I had nothing to do with it. I've said that from day one He says his mom is the toughest person you'll ever meet we speak every day She has borne the brunt of all this without a doubt. So we've got to go through this together really We are the support system for each other, but she's endured much more than I ever will Um, he said it bothers me that people think I'm a killer. I have focused state. I have to stay focused and prove my innocence

2:53:30um He gets a new lawyer involved um then in November 2024 The Albany County District Attorney retires and a new one comes in Lee kindling his lawyer's son His lawyer who he's saying is ineffective his son is now the guy who's gonna oversee all this So this is a conflict of interest So a special prosecutor of this connect this connect the D.A.'s office is assigned to argue vacating a conviction Because the current D.A.'s own father tried to break a mess. So that's what's going on So it's still going on the appeals are still happening. Uh, shit's happening. Uh, Peter is buried at St. Agnes cemetery in Menands, New York, which is an Albany County and uh, Chris is in fucking Clinton right now Dan Amora is where he is which is a horrible horrible old Shit hole Awful, he's having a bad time in there. Let me tell you something um, that's not party in the college in a yellow jeep

2:54:33That's that's tough living Do His number is oh six a six six eight six um, in custody in Clinton um, and there he is By the way, the source that psychological thing we were reading from was Case study the flawed interview of a psychopathic killer what went wrong Journal of investigative psychology and offender profiling and it's by Perry and then Frank S 2011 that's all I could get that's the source so there you go everybody That's Del Mar New York that is uh, Albedon region there so if not him who you know, uh, that's it makes all the sense in the world It's he did it I am my opinion. I mean, that's just me. I'm well, you know, we have to say that right No, no, he's convicted of it. I don't mean for legal reasons. I mean just I think he did it. Yeah, I really did Yeah, I mean obviously you never know but come on Yeah, I probably I bet at least one ball on it put it that way maybe not my balls if a neighbor saw a yellow jeep

2:55:39That's it It's over for you. It's over and everyone saw the other Jeep going to the place he weren't supposed to be going I don't care that they didn't find any Blood and that that just means you're even more cold-blooded. That's more calculated. That's more fuck. Yeah, he's not I mean You showered in your mom's house stupid Right. Yeah, he's not fucking stupid. He made a hose-daw from the backyard for all we know even a fucking idea so Anyway, there is Del Mar New York hope you enjoyed that if you did enjoy get on whatever app you're on give us five stars It helps so much we don't know why but it does it helps a lot netflix those thumbs up mean the world So thank you. Yeah, thank you for being on our side here and hanging out with us on Netflix We really do appreciate that too and all the audio listeners You know just on Libson and everything else. Thank you for what you do whatever app you listen on thank you Everybody for hanging with us here Definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com get your tickets for live shows come out and see a live show They are they're coming up so fast They're coming up so fast September 18th Milwaukee the PAPS theater

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2:58:45Hit me with the names of the people who would never ever drive jacked up bright yellow Jeeps and try to murder us in them Jimmy hit me with them right fucking now This executive producers are Gary Howard and lurking Texas. Oh boy Gary air boy and happy hour and plain dealing Louisiana I think that's a draw fellas. Yeah, you guys. I don't know who wins this week is Both sound god awful Atlanta Zemel Alaina Can't wait to see you this coming week penny boys robust vlogs Robas robbers blogs vlogs James. I don't know Brit Emmanuel also. Thank you all so much. I'm for everything Thank you super matters other producers this week Peyton Meadows Janice Hill AI no name at all On Nicole J crystal Dawson Rachel James Laura Laurie Larry. That's Larry not Laurie Larry Turner Larry such a guy named too. Yeah, it's like such a Larry

2:59:47That's a hairy guy. Chelsea Nye Bill's daughter I think Adriana Shaw Adriana perhaps Stephanie with no last name Amber Smith Kelly Johnston Nia Nancy what did I know that's just Nancy no last name Celeste Sunbot Andrea Nop Tracy with no last name page with no last name Terry Ann Daisy Bowman Valle Valve Valle Taylor Perkins Matt Heritage Susan Olman Faith Astley Eric DeZell Brooke Rice J Mac Lucky Lee Alyssa Kilm Murray Michael F Kylie pre hem preheim Oh Nisi would know last name Mateo Matthew Peralt is that Matthieu? It's spelled like like that honey badger guy. Yeah, yes. How did they pronounce that guy's name Mateo Vanessa Bush Stephanie Pearson Lexi Kling Matthew

3:00:48Yep, not they did say Matthew didn't they? I don't know. I mean you could make it Matthew Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm craft it that way. Yeah, it could be Matthew Lexi King Hannah would know last name Dan Sherook Michelle Hogue Tonya Roll Jellies daughter. I don't know Kim Howard Aaron Hunt Jody Pightsmeyer NWC Morgan not doing it Morgan Harris Alyssa Promo Jacqueline brother Chris Kristen Memorillo The Italian boobs the Memorillos Nice Patricia Browning Carlo in the Los St Patrick in the last name space space cowboy Luxe Alyssa would know last name Brian Bargeali Borgeale Casey prior Kimberly Cloupax J Fourth four J Vi James that's a oh sixth six the sixth J

3:01:49So like I said a Johnny five they're Johnny six okay Johnny six we found Elizabeth with no last name Jennifer Hooson Wendy Reinhardt Aiden Johnson Katie Streka Rob O'Neilio Missy Harness Olivia Carter And Caroline the cute James. Oh, that's the new pirate Yeah, watch out Cheryl Wenbin Anthony the vote the Thieven O Thieven O Anthony Steve Edward Cindy Haas Melanie Varga Sugar Magnolia Rachel Postone Poston Poston Tasha Ann Bryan Brown. Oh my god. I'm stoned. I know that feeling Terry would know last name die Would know last name Shana A Skyler do close. Do I say that already? Jonas Jonas Jonas Bernie Von Lunston Stead Jonas Bernie Von Lunstead

3:02:50Burnt that's that's burnt not Bernie. That's a D in a T. That's what that is. There we go. Rowan James Rillon Amber Fisher Cara Cameron Brandon Collard Cody with no last name Larnie Hennessy Angie Pettington Stephanie Johnson Don Hegelson Hulgeson Miller Sarah and oh boy NIG BOR what is that James not gonna do it Yeah, no you're not gonna bait me Brian with no last name Neibor. I slate that shit Ha Chris 77 Laurie Sasse Jerry Fletcher Kiki would know last name Todd Phillips Good for you taking a break from directing the 97th hangover Trees Karsch Arbano Ginger Schwab Kierza Kierza Kierza Lappin Lepensky Shannon Shannon Stutter Sword Matt Aguilar Aguilar Mike and oh Mike from Duffin Delphin where's Dalfin

3:03:52DAU PHIN that's overseas right Europe Guess CK good for you Louie Simon Chamberlain Chamberlain Genie Nia would know last name Andrea Massey Susan Suzanne Panelli Tanya would know last name Lexi Trammell. Oh look at that Alan that's it Amanda would know last name Trina C Rebecca Seeger Bob's kid Amanda Barker Travis's kid Heather What's kid tie sailor you go Travis before Bob what is it you go Travis before Bob on Barker I did yeah And Bob and then he said Travis Bob it up man double Bob's He's now dead right we didn't kill him again Bob Barker. No, he is dead. I believe yeah He is dead yeah and Travis Schmelzer and all of our patrons you guys are the best. What did you say? It's the Travis Barker might as well be but he's still alive. Yeah, he died several deaths. Oh yeah, yeah

3:04:54Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you and thank you again. You fucking wonderful marvelous fantastic bastards Thank you. You're we're just thank you for all that you do for us Thanks for everything all the time. Thanks for hanging thanks for telling your friends Thanks for posting thanks for being there with us Because this would be weird if we did this alone and no one listens so bizarre So thank you for doing all of that you want to follow us on social media or find out anything about anything Shut up and give me murder as the place to do that calm obviously But shut up and give me murder calm is where you do that So keep doing that keep coming back week after week and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Ma Hey Hey everybody listening to small town murder out there hi. I'm good to see you out there. I'm here with Jimmy too and I

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