States fighting back against Washington

0:00Music Helping to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, this is the Constitution Study on the America Out Loud Network with your host Paul Engel. Washington, D.C. is forgotten that they were created by the states, not the other around. Then again, the states have forgotten this as well. There are some examples of states learning that the federal government was created to serve them, not the other way around. Hello there, everyday Americans, Paul Engel here with the Constitution Study, where we read and study the Constitution. Teachers in general should be free. Glad you could join me today. I've got a pretty good episode. At least I think so. I hope you'll think so as well. Because we're talking about not just states rights, but states power, states

1:02role in this Republic of Republics. First of all, I love it. Tennessee, the volunteer states, volunteers are leading the way and I have an excellent interview with one of our state representatives where we're going to give you some examples. But as I said, we're starting in Tennessee and our state legislator, our General Assembly has passed legislation that's on the way to the governor's desk that deals with renters rights. Let me stay with me for a second. Because again, when you rent properties, it's kind of weird dichotomy, right? Because you're not the property owner, but because you rent, you have a lot of property rights in that property. Well, this bill, which again is pass the legislature's on the way to the governor's desk, it's called SB 0350, would prohibit landlords from restricting tenants from lawfully possessing and carrying firearms and ammunition inside their homes or apartments. These protections would be extended to parked vehicles in a tenant designated space.

2:07So the thing with this way, right? You find you're looking for a place, you want to rent from whatever reason, and you find a home on apartment or a house, and then you find, oh, but you can't you can't exercise your second amendment right in your own home because the property owner says so. Well, this law simply says, no, you cannot prohibit someone from lawfully possess keeping and bearing arms on property they rent. Now, it's funny, I'm preparing for to give a keynote at the, I think it's a late county chapter of the Constitution party in a few weeks. And I was talking about the fact that they're the gun shine state. But let's see, I love Tennessee and I love their gun lots because it recognizes that as a renter, you have certain rights. And well, those rights really need to be protected. You know, the one, the couple things about the

3:07Tennessee law that I find problematic involving guns. For the one hand, the Constitution claims that the right to keep them bear arms in Tennessee can be regulated for public safety, indirect conscious addiction to the Constitution United States, which has supremacy, but that's one issue. They kind of have this weird, it's not really constitutional carry, but it's it's a permitless carry, which is kind of this odd situation. And I really hate the fact that in Tennessee, quote unquote, gun free zones, you know, if you put up a sign that says no guns, passing that signs a crime, not simply trespass its own separate crime. And I think that's that's a bit abusive, right? Because if you, if you're not paying attention and you walk past it, you know, or if you go by and nobody knows, you know, I, it's, I understand a person's right to control their own property. And I don't have a problem with that. I just think the punishment's a little, a little harsh, but here we have Tennessee. Again, I

4:08don't know if the governor plans to sign this or not. I haven't read anything about it. I just saw this article and thought, well, that's kind of cool. You know, I went my wife and our first married, we rented property and we never had issues like this, but I could see where that would happen. So again, I look at this. I thought this was pretty good. These are the states protecting their citizens and at least paying some attention to the impact illegal immigration has on the state, like this, this other bill, which the Tennessee lawmakers decided they're going to delay action. They've kind of put a pause on this. They've defer the general assembly has deferred working on a bill that would require local law enforcement to report encounters with illegal aliens and local governments to track the cost of public services used by those illegal aliens. So again, I find this interest because there's a cost. There's an impact. Now, there's a lot of politics behind this as well, right? Because, you know,

5:12what are they trying to do? Well, again, this appears to be attempts to align Tennessee's immigration laws with the Trump administration's immigration policies. Okay, but I look at this as to me, it's interesting because again, I live in a county. My town is unincorporated. So I don't have a city government, but I do have a county government. And we pay for schools and that we, there are a lot of public services that a lot of people are saying, well, they're being used by illegal immigrants. I was as a, as a citizen of this county, I would be interested in, um, in, well, what are they costing us? Ah, you know, because again, I hear both sides say a lot of things. Oh, no, they pay more taxes than they cost. Oh, no, they cost more than they pay in taxes. And I, I see relatively little evidence for either side, right? There was one study done that looked at immigration as a whole,

6:14not just illegal immigrants, and said the first generation of immigrants tend to be a net cost to the, to their community. It is subsequent generations that tend to be net increases, net positives, net providers to their community. But that was immigration as a whole. This is looking at illegal immigration. And what are the costs again, here in the local governments and the states and counties, or as a citizen counties, and that course, that's going to be rolled up to the state level. What is the cost of this illegal immigration? And can we get real numbers behind it, which to me, that's a good thing. That's, that's information and that's data and that is something I think we can use. And again, not just for our own benefit, but in the question of, okay, federal government, if you've passed this law and you're not going to enforce this law, this is the actual cost that puts on us when you do so.

7:14There's another bill that passed our house, I guess it's still waiting for the Senate. And it deals with tracking the number of illegal aliens in school. This to me is interesting for a couple of reasons. One is, you know, okay, there is a cost to teaching children. There's a cost of having a child in public school. And in fact, that is a debate within my county, the county I live in, because some of the developments that are coming in, the taxes raised from these houses doesn't cover the cost of a single child, meaning if the, in a development, there's an average of just one child per, per home, then we're paying more in education than we're collecting in taxes. Of course, it's something we, where else we're looking at. But there's another point to this as well. And that has to do with a bill that was considered last year that pretty much died on the vine. And it was the idea of Tennessee no longer accepting federal education dollars.

8:18I tried, I wanted to testify in front of the committee. I tried to get in front of the committee and I didn't get a chance because I wanted to point out two things. One is, well, you know, you're, you're looking at the financial interests. What about the legal interests? How are the fact that the, the federal government, the, the federal Department of Education doesn't legally exist because it was created by an unconstitutional act, which, well, Alexander Hamilton and the Supreme Court have all said that is, is void. But this has to do with counting how many of the children in our public schools are immigrants. Now, this would be anonymized data. I mean, this is not data that could be used for immigration enforcement, but it would be information that our school boards and districts could use in understanding where the costs of where the children are coming from and therefore the cost to associate with them. And to me, that would be interesting information. They actually passed a second bill as well that would make it a class, a misdemeanor

9:22to intentionally fail or refuse to leave the United States when subject to a final order of removal. This is a state crime, right? So if you are, if this law, again, passes and gets signed, if you are in this data, Tennessee, and you have a final order of removal, meaning you have gone through all the due process, you've had your day in court, you've been able to challenge it. And now you have an order of removal and you refuse. You don't leave, you fail to leave on your right date or you don't leave. It actually would be a crime in Tennessee to remain in the state in the, because it's part of the United States, when you have a final order of removal. So again, you've got to process. I know people are going, oh my God, Paul, but, but immigration is a federal power. No, it's not. Again, look at the constitution of the United States. The power to control immigration is not delegated to the United States.

10:24Congress can set standardized rules for naturalization, the process of becoming a citizen, but not for immigration, which means it's a state issue to begin with. Furthermore, it's even though you may have a federal order of deportation, a federal or a removal to remain in the state still violates the rights of the states. The state, it can still be a state crime for what you're doing. So again, these are a couple of, to me, interesting pieces of legislation, where the volunteer state is helping to lead in the power of the states and the exercise of the power. And again, we're going to get a little bit more into the, the protecting us from an overarching and over, an overreaching federal government. Now, these are three Tennessee laws that are in different stages of the legislation, right? Some are, are still pendings. Well, one has been passed and gone to the governor, but they are attempts within Tennessee

11:30to enforce our own laws, to recognize what's going on. And I find this important because there's more legislation coming down the pike from the Tennessee legislature that again are dealing with the overreach of federal government that are recognizing the rules and laws. In fact, I stumbled across one of them. I was listening to a podcast and I heard somebody talk about one of these. And I reached out to the, the bill sponsor, a state representative, Gino Bulsal, and, and had a chance to sit down and talk with him. And I was able to record it so that we can all enjoy it. But I'm not quite there yet, but I want you to consider this. As I said, the state created the federal government, not the other way around. The federal government was created to serve the states, not the other way around. Yes, we have the supremacy clause, but remember, only launching United States made pursuant of the Constitution are the supreme law of land.

12:30It, we're saying the federal government, you have these limited and commemorated powers. And sadly, our state seems to have forgotten this. And I know the feds forgot it, but the states have forgotten it as well. And I think it's important that we remind them of this. We have elections coming up for state offices, as well as house and I don't remember for Senator, you know, but there's a third of the US Senate that's up for, for a election. It's time to remind them, hey, well, wait, the, the states you created the federal government, you said it's, it's limits, you said it's boundaries. And it's up to the states to protect us from overreaching federal government. It's why I say the 16th and 17th amendments to the Constitution destroyed the republic. They destroyed federalism because before the 16th amendment, the federal government didn't care how much you made or what you spent it on. But with the implementation of a direct income tax, well,

13:32now the federal government wants to know everything you make and what you spend it on, they want to know everything about your finance. They get very nosy when they, when they did that. And of course, I know most people were coming up to April 15th and a few weeks, you know, most people hate the infernal revenue service and, and the idea of taxes, but we gave it to them and we didn't realize the damage it was doing to the republic. The 17th amendment, the popular election of US senators, same thing. So you used to be the US senators were pointed by the legislature of the states because the role of the US Senate is to represent the states in federal law making, meaning when legislation would come along that infringed on states, rights, it was expected that the Senate would push back because those senators would be hearing from the legislatures saying, you want to keep your job? This is what you have to do. And we lost it with the 17th amendment. It doesn't mean that that the, the states gave up their power. It's simply, they gave up the best way to keep the federal government in check

14:36by restricting its money and by restricting its legislative power. And that we're, we're suffering the consequences of those decisions, both by the way, from 1913, very much in the progressive era. But that doesn't mean the state have nothing they can do. There are things they can do and they are pushing back. And after this break, I'm going to have a nice interview with the state representative, Juno Bolso. And we're going to talk about some of the legislation that again, it's currently in Tennessee that will restore some of the powers that a overreaching federal government has claimed to, to take from us. But here's the cool thing. Yes, this may be Tennessee legislation, but it's something you may want to replicate in your own state. So I hang around for that interview before I go, though, I want to remind you, that this July is the semi-quence centennial of the Declaration of Independence. And the 250th anniversary of that wonderful document that declared 13 free and

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16:41And hang around because after this break, we'll be at the interview with Tennessee State Representative. Geno. Hi, this is Colonel Mike from the National Security Hour. Calling all Patriots to join me in Nashville on July 2nd, 3rd and 4th for America out loud news, 250 10th anniversary in Nashville. Go get them. Cowboys along with clear the wellness company. We're celebrating two big milestones, 250 years of America and 10 years of America out loud. News. That's where you come to hear military and intel experts on the national security hour and where you get freedom of speech with liberty and justice for all, not like anywhere else. This is a once in a lifetime celebration. We will have inspiring entertainment, incredible fireworks, nationally recognized speakers who proudly stand for freedom, just like you and us. Let's unite to salute and celebrate the history of our great nation and collaborate to protect the future.

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19:44Welcome back. Everyday Americans are rejoined the Constitution study as promised. I have with me Tennessee state representative, Geneal Bolso. He's not my representative, but he had some legislation. I think it worth looking at. Geneal welcome to the Constitution study. Thank you, Paul. It's my pleasure to be with you. We talked a little bit as I was getting set up about the the transplants and all that. And what caught my attention was this one piece of legislation, which to me was unique because I have an attorney who's a politician that actually quotes the Constitution, which just warms my part. It does. So please tell us a little bit about this, this legislation you've proposed. Ah, sure, but the bill you're talking about is known in the legislature is HB 1473. We call it the Obergefell bill. And as you, when your listeners know Obergefell versus Hodges was a case decided by the US Supreme Court back in 2015, it was a five four decision

20:45written by Justice Kennedy. And somehow the majority looked at the 14th amendment to the US Constitution, and in particular to the due process and equal protection clauses and said that the 14th amendment guaranteed the ability of individuals of the same sex to marry, which was a very interesting take on the 14th amendment. Given that it was passed in 1868 at a time when all the states and all the voters who ratified it only had marriages between one man and one woman and all of the states that ratified the amendment. So it was a bit of a stretch. And we obviously, as a state legislature, do not have the ability to overturn a US Supreme Court decision, but we can enforce it as narrowly as possible. And that's what this bill does. This bill says explicitly that the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 14th amendment and Obergefell is not binding on private citizens in Tennessee

21:47or private businesses. And that's actually consistent with the century of Supreme Court jurisprudence because it's clear when you look at the text of the 14th amendment that it applies to state actors, not to private actors. It says no state. I'm going to show the private anyone of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor shall any state to private anyone of the equal protection of the laws. So what this bill does is it makes it clear that although Obergefell binds the state and its political subdivisions, it does not bind private citizens in Tennessee or anywhere else. And I loved it because it's what I refer to as an in-touch moment. I heard this one of the podcasters, I into you, I never thought of that. Okay, it's obvious once you set it, once I heard it, I'm like, it's obvious, but you're I never thought of that, which is to me, it's the wonderful part of this. There's there's things you can discover that are there that you never, you never heard of. So where does the legislation sit right now?

22:49Let's see, right now, it has been passed on the House floor. And obviously in Tennessee, as in most states, legislation has to pass both chambers of the legislature before it can be signed by the governor into law. And so right now in the Senate is waiting for action in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which I believe is set to hear the bill on Monday. So it's progressing like all this legislation is legislated, contrary to popular belief, legislating was not meant to be a speedy activity. It's meant to be slow and pondering. And so I'm, I'm trying not to prognosticate, although I like this bill. I hope it goes well, not just for us here in the state of C, Tennessee, but to remind people in the other 49 states that, you know, the Constitution words mean things. And even if the Supreme Court gets things wrong, the 14th Amendment still says, well, that binds the state, you know, as a member of a church to say that you

23:52can't come in and force us to recognize same-sex marriages. It's a wonderful thing. Exactly. And, you know, other organizations, again, it's defending our rights, which securing our rights is the purpose why we create governments in the first place, at least according to the Declaration of Independence. Do you have any other interesting legislation that is coming along or I think I've got several things that would fall into the category of interesting. There's a, there's a bill that's going to be heard in our House Judiciary Committee next week called HB 1491 that seeks to put voluntary vocal prayer back into our public schools. As you may recall, from the founding of the country or even before, there was always voluntary vocal prayer in Bible reading, Bible study, in public schools. That was taken away in 1962 when the US Supreme Court decided a case called Engle versus Vitale out of New York, as you're familiar

24:54with, by name and location. Yes. And that was a case where, once again, the Supreme Court looking back at the establishment clause or the first amendment said that having prayer in public schools violates the establishment clause, which, as written, applies to Congress, not to the states. Number one, and number two, even after the establishment clause and the rest of the Bill of Rights were ratified on December 15, 1791, prayer in public schools continued all the way up until 1962. So there were no one who voted in favor of ratification of the Bill of Rights thought that what they were doing was taking prayer out of public schools because it continued for 150 years. Yet now we have the enlightened Hugo Black, former Klansman in 1962, reading the establishment clause as some type of a separation of church and state injunction, which was

25:56never the case. And so we've got to bill that, frankly, on its face actually complies with Engle versus Vitale, but even if it doesn't, I think under our more recent Supreme Court precedents, the court faced with the issue, well, overturn Engle versus Vitale. So I think that qualifies as another interesting Bill. I'm just thrilled to have an attorney that not only reads and quotes the Constitution, that it actually quotes the 14th Amendment accurately and recognizes that the First Amendment applies only to Congress. And that when the Supreme Court says, well, we incorporated the First Amendment of the States the 14th Amendment, it says no such thing. So that's kind of a pet peeve of mine. I review a lot of Supreme Court case here around the First Amendment. So wow, so that's two for two. Anything else that other constitutional listeners would be interested in? Probably so. I've got another bill that is known as HB1472 that we call the Baning Bostock Act. Bostock versus Clayton County, Georgia

27:00was a six three decision from the Supreme Court from June of 2020, where the Supreme Court interpreted the term sex as used in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender non-conforming behavior. And your listeners will appreciate the fact that Title VII is the federal anti-discrimination statute that prohibits discrimination on five bases, race, color, religion, sex, and natural origin. And for decades, Congress always tried to include into add to that list sexual orientation and gender identity, and it never worked. In both the Biden and Obama administrations, for example, there were bills called the Equality Act that were filed, but they went nowhere. But somehow the Supreme Court decided in 2020 just to go ahead act as a super legislature and put sexual orientation and gender identity into Title VII. And so

28:07to protect our laws here in Tennessee, I have a bill that says that for purposes of interpreting our state anti-discrimination laws, our state courts are not permitted to rely on Bostock, that they have to look at the term sex as our general assembly intended, which simply meant male or female, male or woman. Because that's the type of discrimination that this Title VII civil rights act of 1964 was getting at at the time. Discrimination particularly against women in the workplace. Right. Biology. Biology. In the workplace. And of course, you had Tidal Line, which dealt with discrimination in sports. Yes. And all that. But okay, so Lisi has three for three, all of which involve how the Supreme Court has misinterpreted the Constitution. And I love the fact that you have a state standing up and saying, no, you got it wrong, but within our sphere, this is what imp says. It hopefully would be a reminder to the those in federal government

29:13that the stage created the federal government, not the other way around. Exactly right, Paul, the shame of it is that our state governments for too long have allowed the federal government just to take over. You go back and you look at the federalist papers in particular, federalist 45 that James Madison wrote where he talks about the fact that the powers of the federal government and the Constitution he just drafted are fuel and defined and the powers of the state governments are numerous and indefinite. And look at our society now. It's exactly the opposite. It's the states that have fewer and fewer powers. And the federal government is now all powerful because of the way it has expanded its role under the Constitution. I mean, to start it with Marbury versus Madison in 1803 with the concept of judicial review. And you look at the way that the Congress has used the Commerce Clause as a club to take over everything. And not to mention, you know, the now the federal use of executive orders to do things that even Congress can't

30:16do. And you've got unfortunately, a constitutional form of government that is not what Madison and the other founders intended. And so it's important for state legislators to push back on federal overreach. And I think one can fairly say that Engle versus Vitale, Obergefell versus Hodges, Bostock versus Clayton County Georgia or all federal overreaches. Now, I'm going to encourage you when you find some time to actually read the Marbury versus Madison opinion because the term judicial review does exist in the opinion. They said, yes, we have the power. We must, when we review a case, we have to review the laws related to the case and determine which ones apply in when they're in conflict, which ones do we follow? And being the Constitution is the paramount fundamental law of the land. It must predominate, which is why the court said, listen, Marbury is correct. He is do his commission commission as a justice in the peace. However, when Congress said that we

31:24would have the power to issue a rid of him and Davis against the president, that wouldn't be on the power to delegate about the Constitution. So we cannot give him what is his right do. And which brings you to a question. Again, you're an attorney. There are plenty of attorney jokes. I'm not going to tell you it turns you, but I do have a question to ask, sure, every attorney I mean, when you were in law school, did you study the language, did you take a class where you studied the language of the Constitution or constitutional law? We studied Constitution law. Why would we read the Constitution as part of that? Well, yes, because I'm still amazed that you get a degree in American law, a gradual level degree in American law without studying the Supreme law's land, which to me says, you should demand your money back. But I asked that because in the almost 10 years I've been asking this question, I've only had one man say he studied the Constitution in law school. And it, to me, it tells me a lot about the legal system,

32:25which helps explain why we end up with judges who don't recognize. You don't have the authority to order the president around. They completely forgot federal 78. I was in Hamilton that the courts had neither force nor will only judgment and ultimately depend on the executive arm for the efficacy of their decisions. And I'm also obviously being somewhat facetious when I say we didn't read the Constitution in law school, we did. But there was a focus not so much on its language, but on its history of interpretation and the Supreme courts. But one of the most interesting facts that I remember about Marbury versus Madison, obviously it was written by Chief Justice John Marshall. And John Marshall was the Secretary of State for John Adams, who actually signed the commissions that were to go to among others. Marbury. And then when Thomas Jefferson won the election and James Madison became the Secretary of State, Marshall had been appointed to the Supreme

33:25Court by that time. And so he was actually ruling on his own conduct, which we would today think that might be a bit of a conflict of interest. But somehow back at the time it wasn't do that way. Yeah, it's, I love the, I learned to love the history of the Constitution from things like like that. And you know, I find so many people have this impression of the Constitution. And I, you know, I refer to Starry Decises to President as it's a legal game of telephone. The Constitution says this. A judge says the Constitution meant that. Another judge says the first judge meant this. And you end up now generations later with these iterations of interpretations, but not going back to the original document. Me, I'm a horse's mouth type of guy, not the other end of the horse when I'm looking for information. So I find that, and again, I do with a lot of attorneys. I'm looking at attorneys in court. I'm reviewing some of the other arguments to have

34:29an attorney that actually knows and quotes the Constitution and is also in, in elected office. Okay, you're not in my district. I can't vote for you, but this certainly would put you high in my list of people to vote for because I have a whole system. You know, I don't, I don't endorse people. I don't endorse parties. I endorse policies. And the policy of saying, well, the Constitution says this and it's our job as the state, in part, to protect our citizens from a government for overreach. And I love to see that. I'm very happy to have had a chance to meet you and talk with you. So far, those three pieces of legislation are great. And I hope they do well. And I hope they inspire other people. Before I go, is there anything you want to tell my audience, maybe a place they can go to follow up, especially if they're in Tennessee? Sure. If you are someone who wants to follow our general assembly in Tennessee, go to capital.tn.gov. And

35:35that's capital with an O. And there you'll be able to find the text of all the bills that we've been talking about. You'll be, you'll be able to have access, live access to our committee hearings. And you'll be able to find amendments to bills and be able to follow any piece of legislation as it works its way through the general assembly. Now, I will put a link to this piece of the that legislation on the website when this posts so that people can follow it and see what's going on. Gina, it's been a lot of fun. And thank you for your time and good, good blessings and good luck with the work that you're doing. And the same to you. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that interview. I hope I have the opportunity to speak with Gina more. You know, we talked about federal overreaching governments attacking our rights. Well, it's not just governments. Our rights are under attack from other organizations often funded indirectly through your dollars. Not just tax dollars, but the money you spend with different businesses. So let's stop funding organizations

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39:45Welcome back everybody, Americans. You've rejoined the constitution study and today we're looking at the powers of the state. We've had a pretty good episode so far. We looked at what's been going on. We focused on Tennessee because there was some some cool legislation in place or that's that's working its way through the process that is about pushing back on federal overreach. We had that interview with Gino Bullso. Great. A guy I just met him. I saw a story about one of his one piece of legislation sponsoring and I decided it was worth some time and man I'm glad I did. He had three pieces of legislation right here in Tennessee that while they're pushing back on Supreme Court overreach and government overreach and I love it and by the way if you want I've put the links to all three piece of legislation in the show notes when they hit the website so you can look at them and even if you don't live in Tennessee man this something you can share with your state rep and state senator and let them know these are the types of things we'd like to see you do

40:50but if we're talking about the powers of state they're often powers that had to be exercised against the federal government especially when the federal government ignores the constitution that not only created it but that each and every member of the government swears know with the support and then the latest update the FBI director Cash Patel has confirmed it to lawmakers that the FBI is continuing to purchase a commercially available location histories and other data from data brokers. Now if you're not familiar if you have a smart phone or pretty much any smart device the phone knows where you are the device knows where you if you're connected to a cell network they know where you are within a certain radius if you're if your device has a GPS in it it knows exactly where you are and as much as they say they don't well this data gets tracked and it often you know and again it's not just the the devices you know you install an app but it's

41:51the same got one of those apps for say a meal company right maybe a pizza or a sub shop you know one of those where you can place your order and then it'll tell you you know when you when you get close it'll automatically you know get your order processed it was ready and waiting for you it's tracking you and all that data is is collected by those companies and they sell that data to data brokers remember if you don't pay it for the service you are the service so this goes to data brokers now the federal department of the federal Bureau of Investigations is once again buying up this data it's to me brings in a couple of interesting questions for example Senator Ron Wyden asked Patel during testimony whether the FBI would commit to not buying our location data without a warrant now this to me is a little I understand I think we're where Senator Wyden is going it's the reasonableness of the search and does that include the the

42:52the seizure of data because remember this data is not your data this data was generated by other companies that you do business with it was then sold to a data broker it's their property they can sell it to the FBI I can sell it to anybody they want that is not an unreasonable seizure and I think part of it comes back to a something that the framers the constitution when they drafted the bill of rights never considered and that was the distinction between your information and information about you think about it in the in the 18th century right when they talked about your persons houses papers and effects you were talking physical paper you would you know you would write stuff up you would have records and it was it was secured but what about data about you now when when data about you is collected by so many other entities and it's a serious concern

43:53for security-minded people for a IT-minded people it's a serious concern it provides some wonderful services that people enjoy but it always comes at a cost so you know mr. Michele said listen that the FBI uses all tools to do our mission that includes the purchasing of this data here's where I've got the problem see that is a that is a reasonable seizure when you purchase a product that somebody else owns that is a reasonable seizure the question is what about the search see mr. tell follow that was saying we do purchase commercially available information that is consistent with the constitution and laws under the emergency electronic communications privacy act okay wait a second if it's consistent with the constitution doesn't that mean you need reasonableness in order to search right how do we know that your search is reasonable

44:54and that to me is where we get into it because now you're you know well well you may have legal access to the the data the searching of the data well is that reasonable and that's an area where I think a nice amendment to the constitution might be good to update the fourth amendment to deal with 21st century reality the central realities and that is it's not only your papers and effects but it may be data that you generate or is about you that we want secure and again there's always going to be this tension between security and privacy the most secure environment you have no privacy everything you do is out in the open server but you can see it the most private system well is easily used to conceal information that we could damage our security so how do we find this reasonable balancing act and I think it's a discussion worthy of a serious consideration

45:55right it's the type of thing where if there were a convention for proposing amendments to the constitution I'd love to see a whole session on the question of updating the fourth amendment to to deal with the 20 the realities of 21st century life so you know I'm it's not like oh we we buy this commercially available data I don't think there's anything illegal with that my question is how is it being used and now that they've purchased the data the FBI says well it's our data we purchased it we can go searching at it at our hearts content we don't need a warrant we don't need reasonable because it's our data but it's data about the people and I think that's where we could use a bit a bit of an update especially now that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that the FISA that we always hear about is well it's up for renewal remember the infamous section 702 which

46:56is supposed to use to target foreign nationals for intelligence purposes but has been used to extend that surveillance onto US not only people in the US but United States citizens simply because you know you called somebody who called somebody who talked to somebody of interest a foreign national of interest now the the the FISA warrants let you believe that you know the the multi-hop inclusion of all of this data and of course there are rules about it supposed to be redacted and hidden and you have to have more evidence for you know rules of by the way apparently not are always followed very well so which is why you know people I find it interesting that previously Donald Trump was a critic of FISA but now all of a sudden he's all for a clean extension of section 702 now speaker Johnson says he intends to move such a bill with an 18 months extension

48:03through the house to see you know to try and get it passed that would be that would be an interesting discussion now he claims that they've instituted 56 substantive reforms to FISA this were changes made in the the 2024 reforming intelligence and securing America act and he said by every measure and review those are working just as we planned we have not had the abuses that were happening before those reforms not sure I've seen evidence of that all right the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence so we say so that this idea of a again more surveillance extending into American citizens I mean it's one thing for surveilling foreign nationals especially on foreign soil it's another thing when they start targeting Americans they've got to have a good reason and I don't think I've seen all the stuff that says they're actually

49:05got a good reason for this type of surveillance you also had to that these flock cameras I was talking to somebody other day about the flock cameras and again you have no expectation of privacy out in public if you're whatever can be seen in public can be recorded that to me is not the problem with the flock cameras the problem the flock cameras are when law enforcement search those databases without a warrant without probable cause not even a reasonable article suspicion of the target being involved in a crime now I'm not saying that happens all the time I'm sure there are many situations where they go yes you know there was a there was a hit and run and or there was some other crime and we got a car we got a license plate we want to track it and yet out of that's one thing it's when the reasonable illness is weaker that again we the people have to make sure that that we are overseeing our government and the states are supposed to be there to help

50:09and again I spent 30 years in IT so I'm familiar with the IT security aspects of FISA and flock cameras and and all of this other stuff you know but to me you know the the collection of of of your data and technically fits within the Constitution of the United States it fits within the Fourth Amendment because as long as they're not seizing data from you as long as you and again we we talk about flock cameras and stuff just think of the maiden fries and AT&T all of these entities you know you've got all this cloud stores drop box and one cloud and all that stuff how often has federal agents even state agents issued a subpoena saying hand over this data not even a warrant just a subpoena and they do that's why this quite because it's their data it's not your data the the data about your cell phone usage it's the cell phone companies data you know what you store in the cloud is considered the cloud as data at least

51:14according to the Supreme Court I disagree with that opinion but that's the way the world works so we it's it's really comes back to us if we want to be secure in our persons houses papers and effects we must start by making sure that we secure our persons houses papers and effects it's why you know my my accountant doesn't like the fact that I will not use an online accounting package I don't use an online accounting service because I don't want them handing over my data without me knowing about it you know you use one of these services and they and you'll get a subpoena from the FBI no problem cause no reasonable a artificial suspicion just a subpoena we're searching for people for whatever reason and they'll hand it over in the court said that's fine because you've trusted with the third party it's now in their control they can do it whatever they want these are all concerns that I have and it's again things I think would benefit from a good discussion about how do we update the fourth amendment to work in 21st century and how can we the people

52:19be involved in making that making that happen making sure our rights are secure it's again it's part of the reason why I keep going back to you know John Jay's quote every member of the state a diligently to read instead of the cost note tuition I was gun of his country teacher I can generation be free by knowing their rights those sooner perceive when they're violated it'd be the better prepared to defend and assert them we want to know on our rights are being violated and we want to be prepared so that we can make sure that we defend them that we assert them it's an important part of being free it's kind of scary at first but guess what when you do this the the liberty you feel the freedom in your heart but to me it's absolutely amazing and I know most people are not going to go too far they'll talk about it but they will not do that much it's why I created the Patriots program at the Constitution study it's an invitation only program for people who are serious about the Constitution that want to read and study and really

53:23get into the nitty gritty who want to communicate with others of like mine I want to know what other Patriot groups are doing that want to be able to do so without worrying about sensors coming along and blocking your traffic but also most importantly people that are ready at a moment's notice to come to the aid of others you think about it uh uh you know I've been asked to go down to Florida to keynote a speech that's wonderful I love doing it but what happens if they've got an issue wouldn't it be cool if someone down there says hey you know what I'm part of this group and and I know this guy that really knows this stuff maybe we can get in touch or maybe you know there's a press conference or a committee hearing in a state legislature and they'd like experts to come in and help explain the constitutional point of view wouldn't it be nice to have groups of people that could do that and a communications package where you could could find out and share that information without worrying about um you know being shut down because some social media platform

54:24decides they don't like the idea of liberty and freedom now as I said this is invitation only this is not your average group I'm not it's not trying to replace a Patriot group it's trying to help those groups with some resources now if you want to find out more go to constitutionstudy.com slash patriots you can read about the program see the details and take the bootcamp to get an invitation you have to start with the bootcamp it's right out to one hour video um and and a test of it now if you'd like me to come deliver that that uh uh class to you I'd be more than happy if we can work out the traveling logistics but once you take the the the the course the bootcamp and you pass the test there's an oath I ask you to take and it's really meant to make sure they're people that are serious not you know I'm going to join because I just like joining groups I want people that are serious about defending their rights and the rights of their neighbors you do that you'll get an invitation to join us and since we're still fairly young you can help shape this program so that it can be the most benefit to the most people all with a standpoint of

55:30standing again to support our constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and sadly there are plenty of domestic enemies against our constitution so if you're interested again go to constitutionstudy.com slash patriots read up about it take the bootcamp the bootcamp is free so even if you decide not to join the bootcamp will be helpful and be useful because I also hope you'll come back and listen to us here the constitution study every weekday 4 p.m. Eastern time on America allowed talk radio heard on the iHeart radio network you can listen on our media player we've also got apps your apple android and Alexa you can also listen via podcast now it does take a day or two for an episode to go from talk radio to podcast but you get to listen in your favorite podcast app do me a favor though subscribe to the show leave us a rating especially not a podcast it helps the algorithm show us to more people and hopefully they'll click the link and join us here and become part of the constitution study speaking of links you can find all the links you need on the homepage at america out loud dot news

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