Reflecting on 25 years since the September 11th terrorist attacks

0:00Saturday, September 26th, join MSNow live in Texas for our biggest event yet, with Rachel Maddo, Jen Saki, Michael Steele and more for a day of powerful conversations at timely insights and a crucial state for the midterms. The democracies heal and advance themselves by engaging everybody where they are. Plus exclusive community experiences, MSNow live together in Texas, September 26th. Good tickets today at ms.now slash together. Good morning and welcome to morning Joe on this Friday, September 11th, 25 years since

1:01the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Americans across the nation will come together today to remember the 2,977 people who died on September 11th, 2001, as well as the first responders and recovery workers who fought through the debris and dust to try to help throughout the morning. The country will observe several moments of silence to one of the live's lost as a result of that dark day, 25 years ago. At 8.46am, American Airlines flight 11 crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. Moments later, at 9.03am, United Airlines flight 175, was flown into the South Tower. Most towers would later collapse, and 2,753 people would be killed. At 9.37am, American Airlines flight 77 hit the western side of the Pentagon, cutting

2:02the lives of nearly 200 people to short. And at 10.03am, United Airlines flight 93 crashed into an open field near the town of Shanksville, Pennsylvania, after crew members and passengers learned of the attacks on the ground and stormed the cockpit. A bell will ring, and silence will follow for each fatal moment. And today for the first time, we will also stop to observe a moment of silence for the thousands of people who have since died from diseases linked to their exposure to the toxic aftermath of those attacks. You know, it's really hard for me to believe, almost impossible for me to believe that it's been 25 years. I know, Mika, you were actually down. You ran down that morning and reported from ground zero for CBS for four or five weeks.

3:04You were there, firing pits, watching as the first tower collapsed. And I know you've written something from the newsletter, we say it feels like yesterday. That's how it feels for me. It's just remarkable that it's been a quarter century. I can't believe it. If those not born or for those too young to remember, they'll never understand the shock that so many Americans felt, but I will tell you that they'll never understand, especially in these days, the pride that we Americans felt that coming together, unlike anything I've seen in my entire lifetime, if the terrorists meant to tear us apart, they actually brought us more closely together. It was unlike anything I'd ever seen and something that I pray that we can see again,

4:05that united nation without the tragedy. Willie, I want to show you really quickly and our friends watching the fronts of the papers today. This is The New York Times, a beautiful picture of the stature of liberty and the foreground and behind it, of course, the twin towers. The Wall Street Journal talking about the long shadow of 9-11, and I think the Wall Street Journal has done such an extraordinary job this week leading up to it and talking in part Willie about how if some of it a lot and wanted to destroy America financially or chase people away from lower Manhattan, the opposite happened. As Wall Street Journal said, it's more thriving, it's more energized, and its property values are higher today than they've ever been.

5:06It's just absolutely gorgeous down there. My youngest son went down this week to the Memorial and he is friend deeply moved. This is The New York Post in our hearts and the daily news, heartache, heroism and hope. And Willie, they seem inseparable on this day. The lives we lost, the heroes we gained, and the memories that stay with us 25 years, and I'm sure for you, it has to feel like it just happened yesterday. It does. I think it feels that way to anyone who was alive in that time. I mean, 25 years is a long time and yet it's so fresh in our minds, but we've been talking a little bit about this. There's a generation that wasn't alive when it happened and for them it feels perhaps like the Kennedy assassination or Pearl Harbor, a moment in history, who's horror they understand but didn't experience firsthand.

6:09Just being down here, even coming in guys down the West Side Highway, Mika, you'll remember this. I would just think about those fire trucks streaming south as everyone else was running north to get away from the danger and all those firefighters and police officers from the NYPD and the Port Authority that were coming and I was feeling that this morning. And you get down here and you're struck first by just how beautiful and serene it is at this sacred ground, the sacred American ground. And that's how it felt 25 years ago at this moment. Everyone remembers it was a beautiful clear Tuesday morning. It was a primary election day in New York City and just how quickly that was shattered and how quickly the world changed. I mean, at this time, six o'clock in the morning on September 11th, it was business as usual. The first hijackers had boarded their planes in Portland, Maine to take a commuter flight to Boston to begin this day of horror. But by 10.30 in the morning, both of the towers had collapsed. A ring of the Pentagon had collapsed.

7:09Flight 93 had crashed into an open field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. The president of the United States, George W. Bush had authorized the shoot down of commercial planes before all air traffic was grounded in a first in this country. So the beauty that was shattered that day and just how the world changed and you follow it along into the wars in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq and then working with veterans of those wars. And that's how far out we are. Men and women who lost their lives in war, men and women whose lives were changed by injuries in those wars, seen and unseen. The tentacles are so long from what happened when those planes first hit the buildings down here. And it just has to be said for anyone who hasn't been down here. The 9-11 Memorial Museum, as you say, Joe, is one of the most staggeringly beautiful and heartbreaking and devastating places you will ever visit. You really need to come down here and see it and feel what happened on this day and feel both the victims and the heroes of 9-11.

8:13And what we, of course, ache still for the victims and their families, what brought Americans together was at pain, but it was also the heroism everywhere you looked, the heroism of those firefighters. And Mika's essay this morning, she recounts how she got into CBS news that morning early, thinking like you said, she was going to cover a mayor's race. Bill felling, waved her, go, go, go down, get down there. And she took off her shoes and ran all the way down there. And one of the things that I remember, John Lemire, that really stood out in her writing was, you know, they found in the school after they ran away from the collapsing tower, they found a phone line. And it soon became a place where firemen would come.

9:15They would go on the air and some would say goodbye to their families and just had the look of people that knew they were going back in the tower. And they were probably spending their last hour on earth. They knew it. They did it anyway. You look at the heroes on flight 93, everybody, at least in our generation, near the story about Todd Beamer, finding out from an operator on the ground what happened, asking her to say the Lord's prayer with him. And then others in the back congregating around just saying they weren't going to let this plane crash into the capital or into the White House. And he said, let's roll. They ran, broke down the doors, sacrificed themselves, saved countless lives. There was one story after another. And like Mika, you were younger reporter on that day and saw this firsthand yourself.

10:22Yeah. It was indeed primary day. I spent those morning after the towers were struck. I was directed to my assignment. I had directed me to one of the major hospitals in New York City, thinking there would be a wave of survivors would be there. And what was so jarring, the image that I keep coming back to, is the row of empty hospital beds because they were never filled because there weren't nearly the survivors that people had had fought. And I was down at ground zero the next day. And like Mika saw things, you'll never, ever forget. But you know, I wrote about the Atlantic in the Atlantic this week about my experiences in how New York has changed. And indeed, the city came back and revitalized itself in ways. That if people wanted to do us harm 25 years ago, they failed. And you also, when you went downtown and you just saw how horribly al Qaeda had failed because you had, you had fire trucks from Alabama, from Wyoming, from places all over America

11:25that had, I'm sure, denigrated New York City for years. They came here and they were all New Yorkers. And you felt, as you, as you went downtown love unity, but you felt a real defiance. I can't say the two words that a lot of them said towards al Qaeda in those weeks and months after. But there was a real defiance. No, nobody, nobody is going to knock, knock this down. We are going to get back up. We're going to take care of our own. We are going to protect those that can't protect themselves. And we're going to fight back. No, no question about that. And this was not even a year after a bitterly contested presidential election. The nation had gone into that morning pretty divided and that all changed in the blink of an eye. Of course, remember a couple days after the attacks, President George Zaybush came with his bull horn that sort of summing up that sense of defiance, standing with firefighter saying, oh, hi, those who knocked down these buildings will hear from us soon.

12:27But it was smaller things than that. It was, it was, you know, fire companies from Tennessee or Missouri. It was donations from California, but also Montana. Like everyone wanted to rush to help. And another thing I covered in the weeks afterwards, so many funerals of these firefighters. And the FDNY has a tradition where, you know, if a firefighter dies in the line of duty, hundreds of firefighters go and attend those services. They always make sure the crowds are huge. But because there were so many fire funerals and because so many firefighters were still working on the pit, trying to recover remains, there simply weren't enough FDNY members to attend these funeral. So what happened? Firefighters from all over the country for weeks, for months would descend upon New York City to attend those funerals to make sure the sacrifice was honored as they should. Well, and I will say too, for younger Americans that do not remember that time and only know the Rudy Giuliani of 2024 and beyond. Rudy Giuliani filled a vital, vital gap, played a vital role in those first few days.

13:35I will tell you, I will say it, George W. Bush did not find his voice as America's leader until he got on that pile of scrap and said, we're hearing you. The whole world is hearing you and they will hear you soon. But in between that day and the moments after 9-11 Rudy Giuliani was there. He was an authoritative force in the most positive way. He took control of the situation. He was even, you know, time magazine. Of course, liberals didn't like it. Time magazine called him America's Mayor. He wasn't happy about that. But Giuliani did an incredible job. Hillary Clinton, of course, did George Pataki, the leaders of New York all did a really good job in stepping forward.

14:37And Giuliani went to all of those generals. He did. He went as many as he could. Yeah, as many as he could. I want to get to Richard Haas, but first I want to read the Wall Street Journal editorial board and their lead editorial this morning. It's the 9-11 lessons for next time in the editors' right in part this. America's in a sour mood these days. So it's not surprising that on the anniversary of the terrorist attacks that September morning 25 years ago, we're being told of our country's failures. We are a lecture that America overreacted, squandered blood and treasure, betrayed its principles, and set the country on the path to national decline. If you flew in this week after 25 years on Mars, you might think Osama bin Laden had won. Don't believe it. We were there that day across the street from the Twin Towers, and we see a different legacy. America suffered a sneak attack, the worst since Pearl Harbor, and more deadly.

15:38The country responded with self-sacrifice, patriotic unity, at least for a time, and enough righteous fury to avenge those 2,977 murders. Measured by the lack of any similar attack in 25 years, the global war on terror qualifies as a success. Crucial lesson of 9-11 is that the terrorists wanted to destroy America, not for what it did, but for what it is. They loathed our freedom and prosperity, and adversaries still do. One mistake that led to 9-11 was underestimating that loathing of the inhumanity it could produce. They will seek mass destruction if they gain the ability. By all means, honor the firemen and the police and others who gave their lives on 9-11. But honor the dead as well by recalling the horror of that day and resolving to do what is needed, so it doesn't happen again. Now Richard, that was added at the Wall Street Journal editorial page, so of course we made

16:40mistakes along the way. Of course, Iraq was a mistake. We blundered in many ways, but you look over the 25 years for those who somehow said, Osama bin Laden won. They're just, they're looking at the world through twisted and distorted frame. No, there's an important lesson there. What terrorists are good at is killing and destroying, but they're not good at building. And that's since the terrorist loss. And if you look at the last 25 years, it's not the history, if you will, of the aftermath of 9-11, because again, they left no legacy in a positive, creative sense. The fact that this country was united. Remember Le Monde? New sumptuza medicam met none. We are all Americans now, right? Not just the country came together. The world came together. An extraordinary show. It was five or six days later, Joe, you remember? What a George W. Bush do after he found his voice in New York.

17:41He went to the mosque in Washington. And he said, it is un-American for one American to turn on another because of their faith or the way they dress. We have got to come together now. It was extraordinary moment. And I think the lesson isn't. I think you're doing exactly the right thing for young people. This could be the Peloponnesian war. Roughly half of America was either not born, was too young to really experience this. So I think we owe it. I think we owe it to those who lost their lives. I think we owe it to ourselves. We have got to teach this because the lessons of this are too important to faith. And Will, we've got to teach it. And of course, yes, let's talk about the mistakes America made. Let's talk about how we shouldn't have used 9-11 and gone into Iraq, the disaster of that, and other missteps along the way. But again, also in those history lessons, have to be taught. The heroism, the sacrifice, the unity that this country felt.

18:42And I say that, Will, not only for American students, but for students across the globe. I like Richard, and I'm sure you and Meika, I talk to foreign leaders all the time and they say, oh, what's going on in America? You all are so divided, you're weaker. I said, no, you don't understand. That's that we play hard. We fight hard. And yes, we're divided politically. But watch out. When push comes to shove, America's are always united. Americans come together when they need to come together. And Americans will fight side by side if they be. And I just think that lesson has been lost over the past 25 years, looking at all the mistakes that this country made following 9-11. Without question, and one of the stories of our time is the loss of faith in institutions.

19:43We can trace that as far back as you want to. But since 9-11, it's the Iraq war, it's the financial crisis, it's Katrina, we can go on and on. And there is a generation as the father of two teenagers, and you guys, I know, get this, and John gets it too. They've only kind of grown up in this political climate of division and confrontation. The other side of Americans are bad or evil, or whatever our politicians are trying to convince us of. It's almost hard for our children to imagine the feeling you're describing on September 11th and on September 12th, and the way we felt. And the unity around going into Afghanistan to avenge these attacks and also to prevent the next attack, which it did. Iraq, of course, is where it began to fall apart. But really today, for me, and a lot of people is about the lives lost here, the lives changed here, the men and women who went to work up the elevators and buildings that stood behind me, thinking it was another Tuesday morning. And instead, we're greeted by commercial airplanes slamming into the side of the building,

20:47thinking about the phone calls home, the voicemails that were left, the panic calls to 9-11. Is there any way you can get a helicopter on the roof? Is there any way you can get up to me? And of course, the firefighters who, again, when everyone was running north ran south up into the building's 10 house, the fire department that is right here, almost in the footprint of the South Tower. If you walk outside that firehouse, you look straight up at the building. They were literally the first responders to 9-11. They lost three firefighters that day, 343 total in the FDNY. And as we've been talking about, and we'll talk about some more this morning, many, many more lost since from the sicknesses from breathing in this toxic air down here. So there are the big questions of geopolitics about how we respond to things like this in the future. Big questions about unity, but also Mika, the personal stories of people you know. And I know from my hometown in New Jersey and friends of ours and members of my family who lived through this and some who did not.

21:48I'm thinking about them and their families today. And Will, you mentioned the 9-1-1 calls. We're going to coming up here from some of the dispatchers who were working that day. Also reflections and insights from historian John Meacham and General Mark Hurdling. We'll be right back with more coverage of the 25th anniversary of 9-11. Hey everybody, it's Rachel Maddo here. I wanted to tell you that more than a dozen of us from MSNOW are going to be in Texas on Saturday, September 26th. I'm going to be there. Lauren Sodonal will be there. So Will Jen Socky.

22:49A whole bunch of us are all going to be there in Texas. Tickets started just over 30 bucks each. And if you buy a ticket, you will get access to our new MSNOW membership free for a year. Tickets for Texas are on sale now. You can learn more at ms.nail slash together. Hope to see you in Texas. I didn't want us to lose our soul. I wanted to, as we defended our freedoms, I wanted people to remember how precious they are. One of the things that I did, and I think you were very much involved in this decision shortly thereafter, was to go to a mosque. And I did so because I was deeply concerned about stories of women of cover being harassed shopping centers, particularly in Michigan. I became clear to me that if this is an ideological struggle, which is what I've viewed it as, and we forego one of the most important parts of our ideology, which is the freedom to worship the way you want to worship. All of a sudden the enemy has won a victory. And so that was part of my thinking.

23:52Now that does seem like a mindset from a lifetime ago. But I think most Americans would agree with President George W. Bush, who of course has a mixed legacy. And a couple of high moments, of course, pep for 25 million lives saved in Africa. But also people talk about that moment when he went to the mosque, when he talked about us all being one America, and how we needed the unite and not divide. Bika, before we get to our guest, I know you don't really like to talk a whole lot about it. So people are wondering why I was summarizing what you said. Because you just, you wrote about it, but you don't like talking about 9, 11. It's very, very emotional. If you obviously realize it is for everybody understand. But just if you can't give us some reflections. Well, I think a lot about the agony, not just of the moment and what happened. But in the hours and days after you mentioned the hospitals, I remember sprinting to

24:55hospital and just seeing lines and lines of empty stretchers because there was nobody to save because there was nobody injured. It was just death and destruction. Another vivid memory is going to the city blocks where people had photos of their family members printed out and they had put them up on fences and they were carrying them around. And they were just holding on to just an impossible hope that somehow their family member had escaped. And there was nobody. There was nobody left after those towers went down. Everybody in there lost their lives. And it was just hard for everybody to grasp even days after I ran from the falling towers and stayed down there at block away. Again as you said, talking to the firefighters. And I remember looking into the eyes of one firefighter who was certain he was walking to his death. And after talking to me, he just turned around and walked back in without flinching doing

26:00his job. And it's hard to believe that it's 25 years. On 9-11-2001, my little girls were three and five. They're now 28 and 30. And another thing that I think of personally is just how guilty I felt going home five weeks later, being able to go home. Because of the thousands of people who went to work on that beautiful day, it's like the September sky is, you know, that you feel like the first day of school. For me, it was a new job, making new friends. And there was so much hope and promise in the air. And it all went black. It all turned so dark so quickly. I think there's a lot of us who feel there's a Jonathan Lamir book, 4-9-11 or a week before I remember her. And she's different ever since that moment. So let's bring in presidential historian and pulled surprise winning author, John Meacham,

27:02and decorated combat veteran and former commander of US Army Europe, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurdling. He is an MSNOW military analyst and general just like to ask you about what you wrote about, which is your 9-11 story, which starts before 9-11. You write in part this, this war is going to become personal. You will serve three tours in Iraq. Your two sons and a daughter-in-law will serve a combined 11 tours. Your wife will spend 11 years worrying about all of you. You will stand at memorial services for soldiers whom you knew and loved because they will have been part of your team. You will visit the wounded and present purple hearts. You will visit their markers in the cemeteries. You will watch families bear burdens. Most Americans will never see. Some of the people you will meet will remain with you for the rest of your life as friends or as a memory. 25 years from now, Americans will still be arguing about the decisions made after September

28:0711th. They should. A democracy that sends its citizens to war has an obligation to examine those decisions relentlessly. The invasion of Iraq, the mission creep in Afghanistan, intelligence failures, detention and interrogation, civilian casualties, counterinsurgency, nation building and how the wars eventually end. Do not confuse those judgments about policy and strategy with judgments about honorable service. So general, why did you decide to write yourself a letter to, as Mika said, you know, we're all different before and after, but to the more curdling before September 11th? Joe, it was actually an idea of our editor at the Bullwork Sam Stein. He asked me, he said, you've got some experiences in around 9, 11 and I don't think he knew

29:08half the story because I start the letter by describing the day of 9, 11 as so many people are doing today. I was on a four day pass from the Pentagon, which I had just come to be assigned to about a couple of weeks earlier as the vice director of the J7, which is in charge of war plans and contingency operations. What happened was I heard about the plane crash, a leisurely breakfast with my in-laws on Eastern Long Island, immediately called the Pentagon. Our Navy executive officer told me, started to explain what they knew so far and then he said, sir, I got to go, something's happened in the building. And then we heard about the crashing of the Pentagon after the second crash into the world trade. My wife and I jumped into car, went through the Long Island Expressway, which was jammed, got to the Burjano Nero's bridge about midnight.

30:10Police had it blocked off. I told them I had to work at the Pentagon and was trying to get back and was escorted across the bridge by a police officer, one of New York's finest. And when we got to the apex of the bridge, I looked across at Manhattan and we could see smoke and the lights and everything that was going on. And we took the next five hours drive in silence. My wife and I, as we went back to the Pentagon, got there about five o'clock in the morning and I immediately went to work in a building where you could still smell the fire and the jeff fuel and the fumes of the day before. And hearing about some of my comrades who had been killed that day or injured when the plane hit the Pentagon. But Sam Stein suggested I write about that, but also what I had learned in the last of 11 years, which you just read as a small piece of that article. But I had learned a lot as a young colonel about to be promoted to Brigadier General

31:11for in my first tour in the Pentagon. I learned how a nation goes to war. I learned how you have to separate tactics from strategy. I learned how America will come together, but they will soon separate and forget about how plans are important. What you do in terms of decision making is a strategic leader or critical. How you address the challenges of a nation. I remember the first thing I was asked when I got back, I think it was two days later by Secretary Ronsfeld. He said, what are the other targets? Where else should we be defending inside of America? And we came up with a critical target list that had over 3,000 locations that we needed to defend. And it was impossible. So any time you're looking at strategy, you have to take risk on what should be defended and what you can mitigate. So all of those lessons, as well as the ones that you've been talking about so far,

32:12the treatment of our fellow citizens, the going away from our values of all men are created equal, especially with Muslims during that period of time. How you communicate your fellow citizens when they're in fear of what's going to happen next. All of those things were issues that I learned over the next 25 years. The other thing I'll say is that our son, our oldest son, had just graduated from Wake Forest and he was a second lieutenant in the army. Our other son was at West Point as a freshman, a plea. And both of those sons and our daughter-in-law, who was also at West Point, one of our daughters and laws, spent 11 different tours in different combat zones over the next 10, 15 years. So you know that when you're a military family, you're going to go to war. So for all the people that were at the World Trade Center site on the airplanes in the Pentagon that were killed that day, we miss all those and don't know the contributions

33:18they could have provided to the United States. That's the biggest pain that I think about is how much we've missed from all those sons and daughters and parents and grandparents. We had good friends whose father watched the World Trade Center collapse knowing his daughter was in that building. And it's just the kind of memories that are generated from this event like Pearl Harbor, like Gettysburg. You know, Willie was talking about how serene the scene is there this morning. You go to any place of terror or catastrophe like the Pearl Harbor Memorial or the Gettysburg battlefield. Today it's pastoral because we remember the things that happen there, the lives that were lost and what the nation suffered. And hopefully that will prevent us from being as divided as we are today. And maybe the 25th anniversary will pull us back together and make us unified again. But that's a challenge.

34:21Very well said General Hurley and we cannot express enough our gratitude to men like you, to children like yours and all the military families who in this moment of horror and fear and terror in the country woke up that day and said, where is my pack? Where do you need me? Let's go. General, thank you so much for your reflections this morning. We appreciate it. John Meacham, you for a living study, eras of American history from the revolution forward. Thinking about where we were on September 11th as a country, where we were on September 12th in terms of our national unity. And where we are today this morning, 25 years later, what are your thoughts? I think first it's a moral story, right? This was a clash. What happened this morning, a quarter century ago, was an uninvited clash between hope and fear, between love and death, between the worst of us and the best of us.

35:23And the folks who got up and went to work, whether they were firemen or working in the building, they didn't know that evil was about to strike. And I think a lot about flight 93 and Todd Beamer and the sacrifice, knowing that they would die. Following a scriptural injunction, greater love had no man than this, then to lay down his life for his friends. And life in that verse can be translated as soul or breath. And you heard President Bush a moment ago talk about the soul of the country being on trial. And I think you see the best of us, you see the worst of human nature, the will to power, the bloodthirstyness that all costs the murder of innocents, T.S., not C.E., the murder

36:24of innocent people. And there's a prayer in the old Episcopal prayer book, the families are supposed to read about you read it at night. May I always live so that I will not be afraid to die. And I also live so that I may not be afraid to die. And a day like this, an anniversary like this should remind all of us that anything can happen at any time. And our first obligation is our central obligation is to try to live in a way that if the worst happens, we can say that we did our best. Unfortunately, this was the beginning of a chaotic, still unfolding, uncertain 21st century, only 12 years before. In November 1989, the Berlin Wall came down.

37:25The Christmas Day 1991, the Soviet Union dissolves. There was much talk about how liberal democracy, how market capitalism and the more liberal institutions of free expression, of free press, of free capacity to determine your own destiny, and openness to others, and openness to immigrants, that this was the new era that to some extent, the great ferocity of the conflicting forces that had made the 20th century, the bloodiest century in human history, that those forces had somehow resolved, and that the forces of light and of market capitalism, democratic capitalism had prevailed. September 11th, 2001 was a profound and still vivid reminder that those human forces, the

38:26forces for ill are as alive in the world as the forces for good. And that's what we're called to do every day is to stand up against those ill forces. John, I'm wondering we were talking about our children and a generation, certainly learning the dark side of history over the past 25 years. Curious you and I and so many others who were drawn to history, were drawn to history to read about the heroes, to read about Lincoln in his 30 year struggle to enslavery in America, a tortured, horrific struggle that ended in success and then with his assassination a few days later, not FDR, getting us through the Depression, Churchill, saving Western civilization, and the second half of 1940 in the beginning of 1941.

39:31I'm wondering will our children, will future generations learn the stories of 9-11, will they learn about the heroes, will they learn about those firefighters that ran, as Mika said, ran south when everybody else was running north, who went up into the buildings, when everybody else was trying to escape the buildings, the heroism of so many civilians on that day, the things that made all of us so proud of this country. Will they remember that? Will we remember a time, will we see a time again when America was that unified? Well, the Bible is very much on my mind this morning. I think the answer to that is from the song of Moses, his last great speech to the people of Israel, when he says, remember the days of old, remember the years of many generations, as thy father and he will tell the elders and they will show thee.

40:34Will people remember? They'll remember if we tell the story, and that's our central obligation. And remembrance in this sense is not a passive activity, it's not nostalgia, it's not sentimental, it's quite active to remember is to revivify something, to remember is to make it real. And that's the power of story, that's the power of history is to tell examples that are either worth emulating or worth avoiding. Plutarch said that the point of history was to know what to follow and what to force where. It's a great tension, right? The story tells us what to be or what not to be. And so I would argue that the heroes you're talking about, the those who sacrificed for people they did not know have a place in the American story in particular with the foot soldiers of Lexington and

41:39Concord and Gettysburg as the general was talking about all the way through Omaha Beach, but also the foot soldiers of suffrage, foot soldiers who faced violence in our native region, Joe seeking the end of Jim Crow. America's been made America and people like me are have a lot of responsibility. We tell the story of great people at the pinnacle of power. And there are a lot of trumpets and there's a lot of triumph and there's a lot of tragedy. But the remarkable thing about American democracy, the amazing thing is that history is shaped just as much by the people around whom there are no trumpets, but who are living those triumphs and those tragedies, names known and unknown. And that's the point of the story. Historian John Mitchum, thank you so much. And coming up on Morning Joe, we're going to talk about

42:39the state of US counterterrorism efforts and whether we are more vulnerable today than in recent years, former acting FBI director Brian Driscoll joins us for that conversation. We'll be right back. Hi there, everyone. It's Nicole Wallace. I'm here to tell you about the MS now membership. We're bringing you an experience that lets you connect with all your favorite hosts and a community that cares as much as you do. You can stream live TV, you can join real-time daily discussions and unlock features that you can't get anywhere else. Direct access, more clarity,

43:44all for a stronger democracy. Just visit ms.naw slash membership to join us. Looking here on this 25th anniversary of September 11th, a live picture just before 7 o'clock in the morning as the flag is unfurled at the Pentagon, which was struck on this day, 25 years ago. Welcome back. Here to ground zero, our next guest lost her brother John on this day, 25 years ago in the terrorist attack on the towers behind me and through the cats and the titties joins me now. I want to start in through, first of all, 25 years later, I know that the grief probably comes in waves and it ebbs and it flows, but it's still very present on a day like this. Tell me about your brother, John. John, Katsu Matetus was only 31 years old and he was someone who would just walk into a room and

44:54light it up. He was a spitfire, lived life to the fullest. It was full of energy and made everyone feel like he was their best friend. He was full of love and care for his family and his friends, but he was also a ridiculous jokester, prankster, absolute lunatic. We're looking at pictures of him right here. Motorcycle guy, it looks like. Loved his Harley's, loved his country, loved his motherland Greece, we're Greek. Just before 9-11, actually, he visited our little island of Nisitos and we're really happy that he did that because he got to light a candle at the monastery there and then the following week, you know, he died. 31 years old, worked at Canter Fitzgerald, which lost more than 650 of its employees on a very high floor that day. What is it like for you? I'm curious to be back in this

45:57place to look down at the footprint of those towers to see as you were just saying that the low aces of the Greek Orthodox Church behind us, what does it feel like 25 years later? Well, first of all, I have to say that I am so proud of this beautiful memorial that we've built and the Greek Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas is just a beacon of light shining over the memorial and I've never seen it from this vantage point so it fills me with inspiration. Yet 25 years, it's a really long time, right? And it should feel like time heals our wounds, but having lived something so catastrophic and devastating, I feel like the wound will never really heal no matter how much time has passed. I feel like what I have now is just a scar, a hardened scar, but I don't want to get rid of it because I feel like that scar is the reminder,

46:59right? It is the constant reminder to remember John in all his glory, you know, to remember to live vicariously and be happy the way he wanted me to be. I know he would have wanted me to be happy and to live life in color and I think that scar is something that, you know, helps me talk about him, share his stories, remember the love that he gave so freely to everybody he met, and then to allow me to hope, you know, and to be a better person all in his memory and firmly believe that. And you have picked up the torch from your brother. It seems to me you took his example and living a life of purpose connecting 9-11 families looking after them, a trustee of this staggeringly heartbreaking, devastatingly beautiful museum behind us. Why has that part of the story been so

47:59important to you? It's so important because that memorial, that museum will be the official repository of John's memory and the nearly 3,000 people who died that day. It's the only way to continue their legacy and to tell their stories, not just of the tragic events of the day, but the aftermath of the day. It's the only way to educate all the younger generations who have no idea what happened on 9-11 who were born after 9-11. The museum is the most important part now. 25 years later, I can understand and see that if it wasn't for the museum, you know, we wouldn't be able to share as much as we do with the mass population that was born after 9-11. And for me being a trustee of that board is so so important. And I encourage all the Yorkers and all Americans and people around the world to visit and to learn and to memorialize and to remember. It was important to get that right

49:02and boy did you all get it right with this museum. Trustee of the 9-11 Memorial Museum and the Lecats and Matidys thinking about you and your brother today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for what you do and thank you for always remembering and continuing to report on the events of that day because we have to remember it's not just about 9-11 and the tragic events. It's all about what happened on 9-12. That's right. I call that the 9-12 effect, right? The incredible emotional outpouring of support and love that came from complete strangers in this nation and around the world. And that's what we need to maintain in this country. We need to maintain that sense of love and community and unity. You are a great messenger for that. And Thula, thank you so much. We appreciate you being here with us on this day. Joe, so beautiful. That was wonderful. I will say talking about that love the day after the weeks, after the months, after I remember going down a couple of weeks after, two, three weeks after and going

50:08through lower Manhattan. And it was just silent. You would just walk through canyons of buildings and people ask me what- You see the American flags in the windows. Everywhere. You remember people asking me, hey, when I went back to Penskel what was it like? I said, you know, it was like a cathedral walking on those streets. It was like you were walking on a holy ground. There's nothing nothing like it because of that 9-12 effect. You know, Richard Osama bin Laden and El Qaeda wanted that day 9-11 to be a turning point, a point of decline. They wanted that event to bring America down. Did they succeed? Absolutely not. As I was saying before, terrorists can destroy. They can kill. That's an event. It's a tragic event. What we just heard

51:08is what we rightfully do. We remember it. But they don't have much of a legacy beyond that. And we've had the last 25 years. We've gotten some things right. We've gotten some things wrong. In the list of probably what we've gotten wrong is unfortunately long. War in Iraq, something what we did in Afghanistan, what we're doing now in Iran. We mismanaged the rise of China, the world in some ways has taken a turn for the worst. And Richard on China, you have been saying for 25 years, America is so distracted by the Middle East. That it continues to ignore the gravest challenge, the greatest threat to American security and American power. And that is China. Greatest geopolitical threat. We now have other threats from climate to AI. Joe, if we had had this conversation 25 years ago, just and we said the United States is going to fight the Gulf War, the Iraq war, Afghanistan, now Iran, all these wars in this part of the world,

52:12which is a part of world without great powers. Unlike Europe, unlike Asia, you would have looked at me like you're nuts. This was going to become the defining region of American foreign policy inconceivable. But that's what we've allowed to happen. That's what we've done. Ourself and historians, the John Meachams of the future, the strategists of the future are going to scratch their heads. And why was it the United States took its amazing inheritance having won the Cold War on our terms peacefully, where liberal democracy prevailed, and we then squandered so much of what we had in trying to transform the Middle East or initiating wars in the Middle East for what. And that will be one of the great question marks of history. How did we so lose our way? And I don't think you can, by the way, blame it on 9-11, maybe to some extent. But these were independent decisions. Time and time again, we had choices. And unfortunately, we, uh, you know, the phrase war of choice. We've made some bad choices. In Richard, if you could, talk to us a little about how over these 25 years,

53:13sort of the executive power has changed terms of foreign policy, the commanding and chief, being able to bypass Congress more and more to conduct these, to conduct these wars. And the strain it has put on our allies, we should note, we always should note, that the only time Article V was invoked by NATO was after September 11th to help us. And yet over those 25 years, we've consistently squandered that goodwill, that nature of alliances. Look, our allies are a great comparative advantage of American foreign policy. Nice states wakes up every morning and we have this pool of partners. Europe, look at the economic and military strength of Europe, Asia, Japan, South Korea. That would have great force, force of leverage. The Russians, the Chinese wake up, and other than each other, they don't really have very much. And what we've done is the alien that aided them increasingly and get going back to 9-11. You mentioned Article V being triggered for the only time in NATO's history. The rest of the world went to work with us in Afghanistan, sacrifice for enormously. That was by the way, many of those countries,

54:18that this administration insults daily. We're at the front of the line. Many of those countries actually per capita sacrificed a great deal, no way more than any other country. Right, and we treat them as economic adversaries with tariffs or we disparage them. And we talk about taking their territory and so forth. So when you look at the last 25 years, it's hard to make the case. I'm sad to say that we've done a lot with our inheritance, with the opportunity, with the promise that we had, the good news going forward, is there so little about history that's inevitable? There's so little that's baked into the cake. It's the choices of often a small number of people. And particularly when it comes to foreign policy, Congress has negligible role. It was 50 years ago, there are other flessions that were wrote about the imperial presidency, not in the context of the Middle East, but in the context of Vietnam, how presidents had disproportionate power. And it's true when it comes to foreign policy,

55:19for better on for worse. Richard Hoss, thank you very much for being here today. And those, our coverage continues of 9.11, two and a half decades later, 25 years ago, NYPD dispatchers were called to help save thousands of lives on September 11th, from guiding first responders through the chaos to relaying final messages of those trapped in the rubble. These dispatchers heard it every moment from the other end of the line. For many of them, every voice and sound still remains in their memory all these years later. Joining us now live from Ground Zero, MSNOW, investigate reporter Mark Santia, who spoke with some dispatchers who worked during the attack, smart. Let me get those dispatchers sat down with us saying they wanted their stories heard. They wanted the world to hear their voices, their voices on that day mattered, their voices

56:19made a difference. They are the unsung and unseen heroes of 9.11. I also want to emphasize the audio you're about to hear and some of the images you're about to see may be disturbing. Please operate a one three seven photo with emergency. Certain sounds can evoke a memory. Other sounds can stop time. For this group of New Yorkers, the sounds of September 11th, 2001 have not faded. You think about it every day. New York City Police Department dispatchers on 9.11 this team answer the call for help from across the city. Off duty when the first plane hits. Crystal Johnson races to the communication center in Brooklyn. I was the only driver in the Brooklyn Bridge and it was kind of scary to roll the window down and smell the smell. It's a smell that I'll never forget. At the office she finds colleagues in distress.

57:23When I came in a lot of them were crying. They're sitting with tissues and their hands and tears and their eyes and crying because the voices they were hearing. So many lives on the line police and civilians the dispatchers struggling to guide them to safety. We had one call with a lady said the airplane wing was through the window and she's standing there and she see it's hot. And then the radio transmission that changes everything. The NYPD's Chief of Department Joseph Esposito telling dispatch a second plane has hit the south tower. America is under attack. The calls for help increasingly desperate.

58:28We're on such and such a flow and he was like get me out of here. He the leader of an NYPD technical assistance response unit or Teru trapped with six of his team and several civilians. I'll never forget his voice because you could tell they're afraid. They start. They can't see so they're counting on me to get them out of there. This is what is coming over our radio. Get out of the area. The second tower was coming. The tell you the second tower. Yes, it's about to go. One of those in danger officer Moira Smith heroically helping hundreds escape only to end up trapped herself. Her radio call on speaker. She was like but I don't know where I am. I don't know where I am. So at that point the radio room just gets eerie quiet. Just quiet. You know and everyone's listening to her and she's trying to explain she's doing the best she can but you know eventually she stopped talking. Panic strikes some dispatchers too. I go outside to call my sister Moira because she had my son and you know just to let them know

59:31I love you. I call my dad and I'm tell the way I told my love him because I didn't think I was going to make it home because of that attack. Some callers aware they will never see their families again. Just telling my loved ones that I love them. Given us their phone numbers to take messages and names relay this message. There were people that I did call back and just tell them Mr. Such-and-Saheads to tell you that he loved you. Those are some of the messages. So I take comfort in knowing that I did deliver some of the victims last messages. The weight of their work on 9-11 taking an emotional toll. That night I went home. My daughter was in her room. My nephew was at my house. Everything was quiet. I went in the bathroom and I ran the shower and I cried. You know that sat on the floor and I cried because it was just like what just happened?

1:00:32Because it's still not real. But all too real even a quarter century later are the physical consequences for Reyan. 23 years later I was diagnosed with uterine canso. I didn't know it came from September 11th. Till I started treatment and my oncologists asked me did I work September 11th. That's how we made the connection. Today Reyan is cancer-free and proud of the work she and her colleagues did. Knowing their voices made a difference. I will continue to tell my story because the next generations need to know what happened to us. What we did on that day. I just hope my voice was a voice of comfort at the time and I hope I was able to lead them where they needed to be. I mean just like we remember their voices I'm sure they remember our. We asked the dispatchers what they learned about themselves and their colleagues that day.

1:01:32They said they learned just how resilient they could be, how compassionate they could be. And in the 25 years since 9-11 they all told us how intentional they are with time. They make sure to go to birthday parties and holidays and they are very quick to tell people they appreciate them and they love them. Mika back to you. MS now investigative reporter Mark sent here live from Ground Zero. Thank you very much for that report. Willie back to you now. Give us a sense of what we're going to be seeing down from Ground Zero and across the country throughout the day today. Yeah Mika so right now we've crossed seven o'clock in the morning. The plaza here at the 9-11 Museum and Memorial is closed open only to families of the victims for the next hour or so. There is a feeling of solemn quiet down here right now. Interrupted occasionally in the last few minutes by bagpipers from the FDNY but that part that plaza that you're looking at right now

1:02:36is closed just to the families who can walk around those footprints those stunning memorials and see and visit the names of their loved ones. We'll have a program that begins around 830 eastern time here in New York. The dignitaries who will be here include four former presidents. President Clinton, President George W. Bush, President Obama, President Obama and the first ladies. Vice President JD Vance will be here. President Trump will be at the Pentagon today. He won't be down here at Ground Zero. Former New York City Mayor Giuliani, Bloomberg and current mayor Mamdani also among the many many dignitaries from across the country and from this area who will be here. The times are etched into our memories. There will be moments of silence. The first one at 846 when the first plane hit the North Tower in the Lower Manhattan and going on from there as the reading of the names of tradition since these memorial services began of families of the victims

1:03:37of reading names. Another moment of silence at 903 when flight 175 hit the South Tower. A moment of silence at 937 when flight 77 struck the Pentagon and then at 959 here a moment of silence when the South Tower fell at 1003 a moment of silence when flight 93 crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Another at 1028 when the North Tower fell and as you noted earlier Mika they've added this year the 911 Museum and Memorial. An additional moment of silence knew this year for the victims who have died since 911 and we know that long ago many more people the number exceeded who died of the toxic air they breathed down here than died actually on that day many more firefighters have died than the 343 members of the FDNY who died here that day so a significant moment to acknowledge the victims over 25 years not just on that day but over a quarter of a century who died in this

1:04:40tragedy Mika. Thank you Willie for that and coming up we're going to be joined by former acting FBI director Brian Driscoll for insights on how the 911 attacks impacted the Bureau and the current state of the agency now 25 years later. Morning Joe will be right back. Can I just quickly say hello to you. For me being a part of this place has always been about the people not about the politics. Why hold on to sign you ever been to a protest before? Be safe. People that we cover who allow us to enter their lives. How's everybody doing? Everybody doing okay? How long has been in line? I love human beings to spend time connecting with them is the biggest blessing that I could ask for. From the field to the studio Jacob is

1:05:41finding the heart of the story connect with Jacob Soberoff weekends at 10 a.m. Eastern on MS now.