Lorena Bobbitt Tells Her Side — Should John Wayne Bobbitt Come On Next?

0:00Out of nowhere, George is like this morning, John Wayne Bobbitt entered the chat on YouTube and kind of had him melt down and kept posting and posting and posting and posting. And I was like, wait, what? What Lorraine is not telling you is that I kept leaving her. That's why she cut my sausage off. I told her I wanted a divorce. When Robbie arrived on June 20th, 1993, and this is all about me working at the nightclub and girls flirting with me at my job, Lorraine said she would spy on me. Lorraine had been giving me this silent treatment for two months when I applied at the club and got hired. I told her, that's the real story. Oh, and she thought I was having an affair after I told her I wanted a divorce. Lorraine had never wanted a divorce. She had to create a false defense and rewrite the script. Now she's trying to control that false script by telling women a bunch of lies and made up stories that aren't true. She's a very clever manipulator.

1:00If you want to interview me, I have plenty of material from the court. I have the police report and both transcripts from both trials. Okay, that's interesting. Yes, we want to have John Wayne Bobbitt come on the show. I don't know that I care about the material from the court and the police report and transcripts from both trials. I mean, I'd like to see the police report, but the transcripts from the trials are irrelevant because a jury of 12 people found her not guilty. Lorraine, thank you so much for joining me here. We are in Washington, T.C. I'm so happy to be here with you. Thank you so much for inviting me. Of course, it's an honor. Do people just flip out when they see you? I mean, I feel like from my generation especially, you are someone that your story is resonated with me personally because I'm someone who's been through what I assume you've been through, which is where the media and people who know your story have reduced you to a headline.

2:00And it's been very hard to share with people who you really are because they're so stuck in the thought of what this narrative is. And it's affected my entire life for the rest of my life from a moment of what happened. And I can imagine that is what you have gone through. And I've always felt very empathetic and like I know you because while our stories are so different, the feeling is the same. And what happened is still the same. And so you were someone that when I started this show, I started it for, there was a list of maybe eight or nine people that I started it for, that I was like, these are the people that I feel like need to have their voice heard and you were one of them. So it's like such an honor to have you here. Oh, thank you so much, Rachel. I really appreciate your kind words. And yeah, like you said, I mean, people don't, I mean, at that time, obviously my case happened 30 years, 35 years also, as a matter of fact, 35 years ago.

3:00And they don't really quite freaked out. I actually, I was surprised to see how welcoming I was among women, yeah, especially. And whenever I go to, I couldn't even go to a grocery store because I will be recognized, yeah, because my face was in every tabloid, in every media. I mean, it was like the case on international headlines and international news. So I had to leave that at that moment. And it was very difficult for me to actually get out of the house and not being recognized. So, and after being vilified, after being dehumanized and sexualized, I guess, it's very bad. It has, it had an impact in my life. But I learned to cope and learn to maybe retrain my brain, you know, through all this.

4:02It was very traumatic. It was very difficult to go through that in my life. But at the same time, I was very surprised to see at the same time, I have to live a life. I have to regain my confidence, my self-esteem, and I have to regain, you know, I guess I, I compromised a lot of those things, but, but I wasn't, at the meantime, I didn't want to be detached for what happened because, you know, the more I talk about it, like, I am a facilitator in shelters and I do speeches when I go and talk to abuse survivors and victims of domestic violence and sexual assault, that's exactly what I do. I retell the story, the more I tell my story, the more comfortable I have, I have become telling my story. And the story I find out that I talk to them, it gives them hope and to gain their self-esteem and to also help them to get away from,

5:06the abusive relationship. And that's what I do, that's exactly what I do. But, I mean, at the same time, I mean, it was very hard and very difficult to accept the fact that I was not only judged in the court of law, but I was also judged on the court of the public opinion. Right. And it was very, that's on this farter sometimes. Yes, and it was, and it was so hard, very difficult. My family was there for support and everything, my friends were there for support, but they not always didn't know how to help me. And so that was very dramatic for me, but at the same time, like I said before, I have to become myself stronger and recover my dignity and recover the personal agency that I've lost. I mean, people wrote, wrote stories about me that they weren't true, they weren't necessary. It was just their opinion.

6:08And that's what I want people to understand that there's a story, there's a human being behind all of these headlines and the tabloids, stories, and it was very difficult. Yeah. So, all right, there's some extra unpack because everything you just said is so important. And everyone thinks that they know you. You hear the name Lorraine Obobit, and it comes with just a single headline, really. I mean, and I don't think I know that people don't know the whole story. But what I do want to ask you just off the top, when I ask people, I've said I'm coming to interview Lorraine Obobit, they say, oh, I know her. I remember her. She's the one that cut off her husband's penis, period. They don't know all the, if Sansa Bouton. What would you say is the essence of the story? If you heard John, Lorraine Obobit, oh, yeah, I remember them. What would you say is the story? There's a lot.

7:08I mean, there's basically a young woman at the time because I got married when I was, I just turned 20 years old. But the essence of the story is I was a victim of domestic abuse and sexual assault by my ex-husband, John Bobbitt. And a lot of people don't know my story. And thank God I have done documentaries, I have done movies about my life that it is important to show what I come from and what the essence of the story is. It's not what people think. A revengeful, angry woman who took her, a jealous woman who took her anger out on a husband who wasn't giving her attention or who was making her jealous or any of those things. So let's, I want to talk about that for a minute because I do want people to hear your side. Yes. So before we get into that, just talk to me about your upbringing. You were not born in America, you were born in Ecuador, right? Yes, I was born in Ecuador and my parents moved to Venezuela when I was about seven years old.

8:13I'm the oldest of three children. And my mother and father went to Venezuela to find a better life, to find opportunities to say people come to America, to leave the American dream, right? And so I was left with my aunt and my parents' family, my Abuelita, which is grandma and Spanish. And they were racing me while my parents actually work hard in Venezuela, like a ruckus, in order to save money to bring us to with them, to Venezuela. And so me and my sister went back, my brother was born in Venezuela. And so we started a life there. And by the time I was 15 years old, my parents, we don't come from a lot of money. Obviously we were very humble, our humble beginnings started in Ecuador, we were poor.

9:15And so I remember my mom and dad always work hard and always hustling. And so by the time that we have a big tradition of when we are 15 years old in Latin America, it's called the quinceañera. And it's like the sweet 16 in the United States. But we didn't have enough money and I told my parents, I said, look, I mean, we don't have to have, it's not a big deal. I can actually, I like to travel and I like to go to see my cousins. I have a lot of family here in the United States and my family and my father said, okay, we can save some money and send you to the cousins and their family here in Virginia, the United States. And I said, that will work perfect for me. So it took us like, making us two years to save money. And so for me, what did they do for a living?

10:16Yeah. My mom was cleaning houses. And my father was dental technician. He made dentures. And so that's what they make the living. So it took us a long time to save for them. And we're going to receive the presents. So when I came here, I just fell in love with everything about the United States, the culture, the language, the English and everything. It's just so pretty, right? And the opportunities that America was offering. And so I was 17 and then I wanted to stay. And my father said, no, you have to come back and finish your high school. You can't just stay there. And so I said, okay, so my father convinced me to come back to Venezuela. And so by the time that I graduated from high school in Venezuela, I asked again to come back. And I was determined to come back here to the United States.

11:17And just because I like it so much. And I see the opportunities, you know, the work opportunities in my cousins, my family had here. And in Venezuela, it was very difficult to living. It was the democracy back then, before Chavez, the communist socialism started. But so I see the difference how every year was progressing into a more difficult way of living in Venezuela. So I said, well, chances are that I am not going to have a good future here. I better just go and leave my life in the United States and look for this American dream, et cetera. And so I was very excited when I came back here at 18 years old. And so my cousins helped me. I stayed in my cousins' house in Virginia.

12:17And so for some reason, I just wanted to work. And I applied for a student visa. They said, no, you have to study your main goal here is to study and be educated. And so I said, okay, let's do that. But the problem was that when you have a student visa, you won't be able to work because you're supposed to be a full-time student. So I had my student visa. And then I said, well, I can survive. I need money to eat, to buy clothes for myself or survive. And I just feel bad that my cousins were supporting me. And so they were like, okay, I can find you a job. And so I find this job as a nanny, which eventually she was my boss. And she had this nail salon. And eventually I become a manicurist and work at her shop. And so I started to work with her. And she was paying me on under the table, right?

13:19Because obviously I could not work having that student visa. So I was there. She had a child. And I just love the child. He was four years old. So I was taking care of him. And well, I went to school. And at the same time, I was just earning money. Which wasn't too much because she was paying me cash. But she also, for me, leaving the area in her house. And so it was like room and board. And a little bit of that. So the little thing that I have was like, okay, are you going to say this? I don't have money to my parents because I knew they were struggling in Venezuela all the time. And so the dollar is converted into the will lever was a lot more money. And so every time I was just helping my parents. So during the time that I was here, I live.

14:21My cousins say, well, you know, I cannot have you unfortunately anymore because I work so much. And she was going through divorce. And you know, a lot of things happen. So she introduced me to this family who eventually became my immediately family here. So I live with them. Okay. All this happened in Northern Virginia. And so I said, okay, so I moved from her house and to live with this family. Which wonderful. You know, she had this family have. They're from from Ecuador. So the culture, you know, Spanish culture was there and everything. She had two daughters, one year older than me. And another one younger than me. So I was just fit right in the middle. So, um, and they have an extended family. It was amazing how much family they have. I mean, so I met them. And, um, I mean, every time that there was a party or Christmas party,

15:22they did not need to invite anybody else away from their family because it was so big of a family that they just said, okay. This is enough for people. And so within the family, there's, you know, the cousins and, you know, one of the cousins said, um, you old enough to go to a bar. And I said, well, not really because I was 19. And so, but I did have a fake ID. Okay. And I said, you were already. I had a fake ID. And I said, you know, I want to. So yeah. And I said, okay, I can use my fake ID. So whatever we're going to go to DC. And then she changed her mind for some reason. And she decided to go to the I club, which is a marine and clinical base in North Virginia. And I said, well, okay. I guess I still need my fake ID. I didn't have any like fancy clothes or nothing.

16:22I just had like a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. And I said, it was a call you're fine. You know, you need to change and there's nothing. And so I said, okay. So we laughed. And then that's when I met this handsome marine named John Bobbitt, right? And so I was like, well, you know, and I was very shy. I was, I mean, I grew up, you know, being Catholic, race Catholic. And the woman that I was living in, the family or their strict Roman Catholic. I mean, we went to church every Sunday. We just, you know, the religion was really instilling me. So strong. And so I said, okay. And then he asked me for my phone number. And I said, no, no, I better not because I'm, no, I was just, my English was broken. I was going to talk to you. How would I go to your English? I couldn't understand, you know, him too well. It was noisy. The music was a make-up, right?

17:23And my friend was like, well, you know, you got to be careful because, you know, you don't want to give away your telephone number. And I said, yeah, you're right. It's not my telephone number. It's the house. Right. I was sleeping in phone number. It was not in my personal phone number. Remember, we, this is all in late 80s, 1990s, right? Where there's no cell phone. Right. Now, you know, the technology is totally in the way. We're hanging, yes. And that's it. I'm here. Right. And every time, like, when he called, as a matter of fact, Mrs. Castor was the one answering, one of the girls answering. So anyways, so I was very shy. And then he asked me to dance. And I said, no, I don't dance, which I like because I love to dance. I mean, I grew up dancing. My parents dance. I learned from them. I love dancing. So, but I was very shy. And, you know, and so, and I was a virgin. You know, I was just, this is like, wow, I mean, this is so new to me.

18:23I don't know what love was. And so I was like, wow, you know, maybe I should give him a chance. And so I give him the phone number. You're done. And that was life changed. A mistake. So how long did you guys, did he court you? How long did you guys date? So I was like less than 10 months, I was sad. Yeah. And how did you communicate? Did you get better with speaking English? Yes. Because through the time, I mean, the little boy that was taking care of, he was learning English and I was learning from him. Okay. So sometimes I was like, okay, so I was speaking like a four year old. And I'm like, this is not going to work. I have to learn English as a two-ling English as a second language, one of the community colleges. And so I started to, you know, just turn the TV and, you know, just to practice, watch news, whatever it was on TV at that time. So it's just to practice reading the newspaper, reading magazines, you know, just get interaction

19:25with American people. Right. And so when I was going to college, the community college, I was actually, you know, learning about people. But what happened was that there's a lot of international students there. Yeah. So I learned a lot of, you know, there's like, for example, I remember, it was funny. I met this girl and I didn't know she was from Brazil. And obviously they speak Portuguese. So the way how we communicated was like, I was speaking Spanish. She was speaking Portuguese because Portuguese and Spanish are very close to each other. So we understood each other, right? It's just kind of wild. But we understood each other, even though we speak in different languages. So and then, and so I learned English eventually, obviously, right? And still might, you know, kind of broken and kind of didn't really understood much. And, you know, whenever I have, like a question or I just look at addiction, or I used to carry a little addiction in me. So, you know, smart. So that helped me. Yeah.

20:26So then did it, was it an immediate thing where you guys got very close? He explained what your relationship was like at the beginning. Did he kind of become your family then? Did you want to marry him because you were so in love with him or did school and then you needed to go home? Oh, so when the semester ending, I was, I was paying a lot of money because I was going to see they're out of town. Okay. And so, oh my god, it was so hard to go back to school because, you know, it just, one credit was like $300 or $600 per credit. And math was six credits. And so I needed to make a lot of money. So I stopped school and then to, you know, save some money to go back to school. So while I was doing that, John was in the radar. So he was always, you know, around me and so calling me and wanted to become more involved, you know, as a boyfriend, girlfriend kind of thing. So and he would go to the houses that I was working as an any or he would go to the house

21:31that I was living with the family that was my family away from, from my family here. So he will go and visit and then he became more like welcoming and like and he was very charming. He was very kind. He was very handsome. I was in love with his blue eyes. And you know, he represented, wow, this, this man that I, I would like to marry him eventually, you know, he was very kind, very, very, he was funny too in ways that, you know, only he can make jokes and everything. It's just, and so he was very charming about around people too. And so people like him, the people who did not was kind of fun of him was the two girls that I was the family. Yeah. I did not like him for some reason. I don't know. I think they saw something that I didn't see because sometimes, you know, in all the time, every time I go out, he will forget his wallet. And he was, yes.

22:32So I was like, I never really catch that up. Like, you know, like I never, remember I never have a boyfriend. Right. That was my, he was my first boyfriend. So I didn't really know what to expect on a relationship. And I wasn't, you know, I didn't grow up. I was the first of the girls. I didn't have a big sister telling me, right? You know, this is how men are, just some guys, boys are. Right. And so I never really have that. And my mom was always busy working. So she never really took the time to actually tell me, you know, a relationship between a healthy relationship between a boy and a girl, a man and a woman, right? The only thing I have was my parents example being married for so long. And I thought, well, you know, this is marriage. I'm just going to go ahead and, and you know, this is the rest of my life, my marriage. And it's going to save my life. And you were used to making a little bit of money and doing, you know, giving it to other people, sending it to your parents. So probably didn't affect you if he forgot his wallet and you had to pay for that.

23:34Right. It was like that. I mean, they say, well, money comes and go, you know, I was leaving paycheck through the paycheck. And so in the little money that I had, I knew I have to say before school, when I had to come back and say enough to take one math class or a history class or something that I needed to. So it was a very slow process. You know, my education here that it got frustrated. And I said, you know what? I needed to make more money. So I knew that the lady who I was working for, for her taking care of a child had a business. I had a manicurist business as a salon. And I said, you know what? I just going to ask her to, if I can, you know, become a manicurist at her one of the salons, did you have to go through training or still? So yeah. So in Virginia, as long as you have a training, you, you become grandfather. Oh, okay. You know, you have a training, yes, I have to go to school eventually.

24:35And then I'm present that I didn't really have to go to school for nails, but somebody trained me, but I have to take a test. Got it. So in order to get my license. And so I did that and I became licensed, manicurist and nail technician, they call it. And so I was working for her and I was making a lot of money for, remember, I didn't go to school. I didn't go to college at that time in the 1990s. I was earning 35 to 40 thousand dollars, which was an equivalent of now of like what, 85 thousand dollars now this days. And so it was a lot of money. It was comfortable. Yeah. And I was very proud of me. I think that was one of the most proud of things that I, you know, make of living for myself. I was more independent and I was getting somewhere. And I had a job and how, what else can you ask? I mean, you know, you're leaving basically the American dream here. And, but Joel was always in the picture. And so he became my boyfriend and eventually, you know, he, he was a Marine and he, it was

25:41kind of weird now that, you know, I talk about it. He found, he was, he was working at the Marine Club, clinical base, I'm sorry. And he was the lifeguard of, of, in the pool. And so when he invited me to go to swim and I went and so he find a ring at the bottom of the pool and that ring, somebody else ring, became my engagement ring. And he said, look what I found. And then it was this golden ring with, with a bow. And I said, oh, that's pretty. But then he come out and I was at the edge of the pool. And then he gets like, and he kneel on me and, and I was like, what are you, what the heck are you doing? And he said, would you become my wife? I want to marry you. Wow. Just like that. And I was like, I was like, I didn't know what to say.

26:42But I said, so that obviously wasn't planned. He found the ring. No, he was. Yes. Yeah. He decided to propose. He find it and he who proposed it, right? Did he ever get you a real ring? No. Wow. This episode is sponsored by St. Joe. If you've often following my facelift recovery, one of the questions I keep getting is, what are you using on your skin? When my skin has been at its most sensitive, the last thing I wanted was an aggressive routine with a million different products. I needed something gentle enough for what my skin had just been through, but real enough to actually work. That's when I started using St. Joe. And honestly, my skin has never looked better. St. Joe is a plant-based performance-driven skin care system. And I've been using four of their steps. The cleanse, it feels silky and nourishing, not stripping or tight. It has glycerin and jojo-baw oil to help keep the skin feeling soft and hydrated. Then I use defend their barrier repair system. It contains all the ingredients I wanted when my skin felt especially sensitive and needed

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28:52look, I'm in, this is what's happening. And she freak out. She was a good way or bad way. Maybe both, maybe, because I can see her face of shock and the girls were like, oh my god, oh my god, and then the husband was very quiet. He was like, he was just laughing. He was like, oh my god, this is so good. And you know, it was very, very sweet. And then Mrs. Castro said, we have to call your mother. We have to come, you know, we have to bring her here because this is getting somewhere that, you know, I cannot handle this. If you get married, you get pregnant. So all of this, she was taking care of me like I was her daughter, even more because the responsibility was more, right? And so, and she was like, oh, okay, so she came, my mother, my mother came and visited. And I remember she came around Thanksgiving at one time.

29:56No, I'm sorry, she came, this is different. I'm getting confused with it with the timing here because it was, oh my guys, forgive me, it was a long time ago. I have to remember. So she came and then she stayed at her cousin and then she came and visited me for like a week or so. And then she liked John. She, I think so. Yeah, she was very likable among people. And so yeah, but he didn't understand because obviously my mom doesn't speak English and you know, so in Spanish. And so Mrs. Castro advised me and say, she said, well, you know, you have to make it more formal because how are you going to tell your mom that you just engage and say, well, it's not like I was getting married, right, right away. And so we went to this ice cream place and I told John, I said, John, I mean, you know,

30:57I was advised that, you know, I'm going to take a girlfriend rate ring and you're just going to, you know, just pretend again that you're asking. So my mom can understand this. And so I hacked it out. Yes. And so I told him that and then he went alone and then my mom was like, oh, okay, okay. So it was more formal, you know, having a parent present there and stuff like that. That's sweet. So yeah, it was very sweet and then we did ice cream and, you know, and so yeah. So at the beginning, there was no red flags. You guys were in love. There was no red flags. There was no red flag. It was good to you. You felt like you loved you. Yes. Do you think you loved you for yes? I think so. I think, yeah, I think so. I can say that. And so you were dating about 10 months and then you get married. So we were dating for about 10 months and we got married. Okay. And then you moved in together. Yes. We moved in together. I was still, you know, we moved into an apartment.

31:58The first apartment we lived in was a very, very small, just a room. It's a studio apartment. There's no room division. There's just a kitchen and a living room and like whatever you put the bed is, it's your, you know, your place to sleep. That's it. So we were there for like a week. But so when we were there in that apartment, a tiny apartment, I have a call from her mother, oh, his mother, I'm sorry, from John's mother, which actually wasn't, it wasn't his biological mother. It was the aunt that he, she raised him. And so, and musical high, you know, I heard you just moving to a new place, blah, blah, blah. I just started a new life, whatever. And then so as a couple, you know, and, and so he said, can I talk to John?

33:00And so I said, okay, you know, your mom wanted to talk to you. And he was talking and all I hear was like, aha, yes, aha. And that was it. So the next thing I know was like, okay, so we're going to go the weekend to Niagara Falls. And I said, oh, okay, let me, because my mom wanted, she, she heard that we just got married. And so she wants to throw, you know, the family, my family, when is it, throw us a wedding party, whatever. And I said, okay. And so I packed my, my summer, white is a summer white dress that I bought, like a T.J. Max or Marshall's one, you know, this department, this count store. And then I said, okay, and I had this flower that I made it myself. I went to Michael's and I just, you know, crafted together. Yeah. And so the 80s and the 90s were wearing big rings and stuff like that. And everything was just nice, right?

34:02And so, and I just packed that and he packed his, I think it's called blue dress, when Marine, dress blues or whatever, whatever it's called, marine uniform, by very handsome. And then, so we got there. When we got to Niagara Falls, I said, where are we? And he said, we are the church. And so I say, my goodness, and I have shorts on and I have a tank top because we were summer time, you know, we drove there and he opened the door and there was nobody at the church. No one. And I said, hmm. Maybe we're like early or maybe, you know, I hope it's not late. But is it no? So we went to the house and they were very, they were living in, they're living areas where I guess you have, okay, so they are from Niagara Falls, but they were campaigned

35:05in Canada, okay? So, and so we have to cross the border. And remember, I was just had the student visa, I was, my immigration papers were in the works because I just got married and so my paperwork of becoming a citizenship was in process, okay? So I didn't have a passport, I didn't have anything, but John chose cross, tried to cross the border. And I said, wow, you know, this is kind of scary, I didn't realize that knowing, knowing and coming from another country, I knew that I have, you have to have a passport. And then here's just when and the police came following us and it was immigration, you know, from Canada. And so what are you guys doing? And whatever he said, the police officer was upset, he pulled me out of the car and

36:08say, we're going to have to stay here. And they detained me for like, my God, it was like eight hours, tried to see where I come from, that, you know, why would I cross the border without a passport? And they investigated him, he was a Marine, it was, it was really bad. I mean, you know, so I think the communication with him was, was a red flag, but I didn't know that because and I said, well, you know, I wish you would have told me, I will be more prepared, right? Same thing with the, with the church, we were not, we were supposed to be there a day before, we were late one day. So when we got finally got to the camping ground, the parents were upset because we were, they later to God, well, for the church. And they were trying to surprise you. They were trying to surprise us, but and I say, well, there's no communication with your

37:09mom, I just answered their phone, but she didn't say anything to me. She talked to John, you know, so that kind of thing. And so they throw a little, you know, party in the campground and everything. And I had to wear the, they bring a cake, they, you know, and so it was sweet. It was nice. By the time that the party was over, he decided to go, he didn't tell me where to go. He decided to go with the boys with his brothers. And I came back and I, I talked to the mother. I said, what is John? I mean, you know, it's been going for like, you know, five hours. And so and and I need to talk to him. I need to know what's happening. He went to a place that in Canada is, I think is, is, is not illegal to have sex. So he went to strip club and have a lot of, you know, ladies who sleep around with.

38:14And I did not know that. This was right after you got married. This is right after I got married. I have no idea he went and do that. So when he came back, I asked him, where did you go? He didn't tell me. His brother was the one who, who says something. And I said, well, you know what? I am tired of this. I was very upset. I want to go back home back to Virginia. And I said, I'm just going to, you know, drive this car. Yeah. So I packed my bags and I said, thank you to the family. For everything, for the party that they throw is blah blah blah. And that's the, you know, one of the most famous pictures that you see was of him and I dressed, you know, without me, the white dress. And he has this marine suit on. And that was, that was at the campground. Oh, that was our wedding party. And so, so I went back and to the car.

39:16And so that was a necessary, a happy time. It was not a happy time. It was not a happy time because I didn't know that he was going to act that way. Right. And then, so I just feel like, you know, very odd, very, it was really an odd place to be too. And so I didn't know how to react to it. So when we came back to the car, I saw extra bags in there. And it was his brother coming to Virginia. And I thought, I figured, okay, we're going to give him a ride to Virginia. And little that I know, he was moving in with us. Oh, wow. And so, so things changed when you guys are changing for the worst. So okay, what's interesting about your story is we mentioned before, people know what happened. They know they act, but they don't know about the domestic violence. They don't know about the history, about the why. And they focus on just the act.

40:18So when did the abuse start? So when we came back to the apartment and his brother-tot came with us. And he's, and I said, okay, I would like to celebrate. And I wasn't happy that his brother came and live with us in a tiny apartment. So, but I told just to ease up and everything. I was just so tired and just uncomfortable, believing with not only my husband, but another man there. So I said, look, I mean, what don't we just go and celebrate our first month of being married? And I'm going to have a paycheck coming in and I'm going to have money. And we should treat us for the two of us. I said for the night, you know, a restaurant and a steak dinner, whenever in DC. And so he agreed.

41:21So we went and we went to DC and then John was not dressed for that restaurant. He had jeans on. And they said, well, we're going to let you in, but your boyfriend, they thought it was my boyfriend, the bouncer said, he won't be able to come in. It was a nightclub type of restaurant. So I said, okay, so I said, okay, we decided to go to another bar. Or he decided to go to another bar that, you know, they allow him to get in the way he was dressed up. And so he decided to drink and, you know, de Kila and all kinds of drinks, you know, whatever. I don't know if he knew the difference between now mixing alcohol, right? Because it really can get to you. How old was he at this time? So he is two years older than me. So he was 20.

42:21So that he was 20. No, I was, I was a night. I was just turned 20. Okay. Because my birthday is May 15. I have a birthday coming up. I'm going to be a birthday. That's my dog. He's birthday. Oh May 15. Oh sweet. That's a lot of tourists. Sweet girl, by the way. And I just turned 20 and we got married on June 18. Okay. So one month after my 20th birthday. And so I still, you know, I wasn't legal to drink. So I didn't really drink a lot because I was afraid. And I'm not a big drinker anyways. But he was old enough to drink. And so he and his brothers and he and his brother were the one drinking. And a lot. So I said, okay, well, I have to drive because obviously you can drive. And he insisted. He took the car keys away from me and he wanted to drive. His brother was wasted. I mean, oh my gosh, he couldn't even walk. And I was a John, pretty drunk too.

43:23And John was drunk. And I said, oh my God. So in the highway, in the main highway, we were like, you know, going back and forth, left and right, like a six-agging. And very aggressively, in some of the cars were honking on us and, you know, just to make us aware that, you know, where are you doing? Whoever's driving is dangerous. I mean, you guys are, a lot of people roll down the window and insulting us, you know, giving us the thing. You know, it's just bad. And I was so scared. And so I took the wheel of him because one of those things he was going here, too close to a car and, you know, to cause an accident. So when I took the wheel on to, you know, kind of maneuver the wheel, he punched me for the very first time in my stomach and in my chest. And while I was drunk and I was, all I did was cry. Yeah, while he was driving with one hand, he just took and punched me that way.

44:25And I said, I have no way to say anything. I was such a shock and I was crying. And you know, the whole way up to when we got home, I was still crying. I just could not believe I was in shock. And so he dragged me out of the car by my hair and continued to beat me up at the apartment in front of the brother, on front of the brother. The brother was passed out and, yeah, but it was in front of him. And he wouldn't, you know, and this was the first time he had ever done anything like the kids. Yes. Yes. Was that the first time he had ever been that drunk in front of you? Oh, yes. So do you think it had something to do with the alcohol? I think it has something to do with the alcohol as well. Yes. But I don't know if that trigger his anger is whatever it was. So it must have been shocking that this person that you thought loved you and you loved was all of a sudden this new, my husband.

45:26Yeah. Right. And so I said, these personality totally changed. Right. He continued abusing me and he kicked me in the stomach when we got into the apartment. A guard, a police officer sat that because we didn't have any curtains, obviously. So it's department lives big window. So he was guarding around the apartment area. He was walking around and his cell was going on. And he decided to knock at the door. And when John opened the door, he thought it was his brother coming because he was drunk in the car. He stayed at the car. I was in the car. And so he opened the door because I bet you he would not open the door if he knew there is somebody else or a police officer because he was such a coward. And then he opened the door and he sat this man in uniform as a police officer. And he asked, I just saw something going on.

46:28I just want to know if she's okay. And he pointed me and I was crying. I was devastated. And I couldn't even talk. You know, it's just embarrassing. It was a shame. I didn't know what to say about that situation or what to even expect from that. But the police officer asked me if I have a place to go for the night. And I said, no, I don't have a place to go. But I live anyways. And I left. I took my car and I slipped in the car. Yeah. Try to save. It was safe. And try to make up something out of the story. Right. Because I didn't I couldn't comprehend why my husband, the one who promised to love me, was doing this to me was doing such things. Right. You know, abusive, physically, yeah, and treating me that way.

47:29So this was the first time and it's right after you get married and the brother is now living with you. So you eventually go back. Obviously you go back home. Yes. And I was like, well, did he apologize? Was it like a honeymoon phase? I mean, people will ask later, obviously, why you stay? Absolutely. So when domestic violence happen and we have to make awareness of this, what is domestic violence? Domestic violence is based on control. It's rooted on control. And is the perpetrator usually is giving you all or actually putting, putting all kinds of force on you, whether it's physical. Mentally or physical abuse, emotional abuse towards you is control. So they try to always control right, you know, by abusing you in this many kinds of abuse, right? So I said to myself, okay, so this is, this is not going to happen again.

48:30We're going to have to talk it over. And of course, he came back and he said, he apologized. He said he will never do it again. He was sorry. And I believed him. I really do. I believed him because I loved him. I was married to him. I thought this was going to be only one incident. And I was scared. And I said, okay, I just, you know, we're just going to have to, you know, be quiet about it. You know, going to tell anybody what happened. And that was it. So God. So it was a honeymoon. Right. I didn't know that did another abuse came and then another honeymoon was coming. You know, that's the cycle of abuse, right? Right. So I felt trapped. And so how much of this cycle, how many years, months, whatever it was, did the cycle of abuse then continue until June 22nd, 1993?

49:30So we were married for four years. And during the time he was leaving me back and forth, back and forth. And so we were going to the house, going back to, so he wasn't going away for work or so no, no, no, he was leaving me like, like he will pack, packed his bag to his suitcase and he will leave saying he was going on a trip or he would fight with you and say, I'm out of here saying that he would just leave me that he doesn't like, you know, whatever. But during the time anything could trigger him. Okay. Anything could be like, for example, if I don't cook right or, you know, if I cook Latin American food and he will respect him hamburger or something like that, then he will be like, I want to eat this. This is, you know, food for whatever Latinos or, you know, I don't eat this.

50:32So anything like that. So it started to become normal that he would fly off the hand. Yes, he will fly off the handle. Yeah, he will fly off the handle. And, you know, so whatever reason one time was because I think I cooked mashed potatoes and the mashed potatoes were not hot enough. You know, stupid things like that, that, you know, Megan has, you know, all to, well, why don't you talk it over instead of, you know, using physical violence or whatever. So I knew that I was, I was always scared and I, but I was trying to please him because as a wife, as a growing up, when, when I was a child, I saw my, my mother and my father, my father is very passive. Obviously he's never abusive. I never see an abuse, you know, from, from my father. And then all of the sudden is like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be. I'm a wife, you know, I'm supposed to please my husband. I'm supposed to, so all of this, or whether it's religion, my religion was saying, okay,

51:35Catholic girls, you know, now get the divorce, you know, society. I was ashamed, you know, to talk to my Michael workers about what happened, whatever incident I have. And then the abuse were not only escalated emotionally and psychological and physically, but until I was actually forcing sex on me. So my right to rape, right? So it didn't start that way. It was more physical abuse. No, it didn't. No, it didn't. It went in kicking, right. But it was all abuse. Yeah, verbal abuse, demeaning, bit littering you, you know, so it was not economical abuse though, because I was the one who made more money than him. And so, but I know a lot of women suffer from, you know, economically abuse because they're dependent on their husband to support and they dependent. So, but in my case, was not, that was not my, my abuse.

52:36But he will take money from my bank account view. So in a way, it was abuse because all the earnings that I had, and I remember the teller, oh, she was so sweet. I used to do her nails and I used to bank across the street from, you know, I think it was a bank of America at that time. And so she will be like, you know what? We sat John today and he took like $300 from your account. And she will tell me that, you know, as I, and I said, oh my God, because she knew that every time I used to call the bank and my, my checks will bounce because I didn't have enough money. And I said, why, why, I don't know how money when I'm the one who putting all this money, every paycheck, every two weeks, I had to put my paycheck in the bank to pay for the house, pay for the bills to pay for food and to pay for cars, right? Like they cost money to, you know, gas, electric, you know, whatever.

53:39And then it was that kind of thing that eventually we'll fight about it. Why you took money out, right? And it was a legitimate thing, you know, me questioning my husband, what the heck is going on? But he did not like that. He didn't like me to question him. What's going on with something so important that is the money that is not in the bank anymore, right? Paid for for the rent of the house or for anything, right for food. He will take the money and he will buy flowers and he will, and then all the sudden, um, in my credit card, right, took my credit card and Alison, I will have a statement saying, um, hotel, like the holiday in or whatever. And I said, wait a minute. We were not, I was not in the holiday in this weekend. I was not in or this day or Friday or you told me in a, so he will do in this, in the behind your right cheeky and stuff like that.

54:41And I said, wow. And so of course we were fine about that because it was a legitimate thing for me to ask as a wife, where have you been? Right. Right. I mean, yes, it so it seems like he, for somebody who didn't really have a stable job that you were supporting him, you know, he was probably very angry inside about a lot of that and ended up taking a lot of that out on you. Well, he didn't ask, he didn't like to be questioning them. So of course we fight and then the abuse will be escalating there. And, you know, so I remember how often was that happening? Um, because I wasn't really, it was quite often because, you know, between him not having a job, between him not, or, you know, taking money out of the bank or my account or our account because it was joined. Um, and between, you know, him doing, you know, stupid things like, uh, for example,

55:41at the Marine Corps, he will, he will go through a wall and then he will come back angry and then he said, they suspended me because I went, I hit a wall in the car when he was driving or something and they will do that. You know, the Marines will not put out with them period. We will not put out with him hitting walls or, you know, making any mistakes, you know. So they will do something like, uh, I don't know what they would do. I guess he was so angry. They, they said, just stay home for like a week or something or they would just not paying him. So there were problems like that. And then, you know, the abuse, the more intense, the problem was, the more intense the abuse was. Right. Doesn't make sense. Of course, 100% so. So, and then let's briefly talk about the sexual assault. Um, I think it's back then, especially, you know, marital abuse. No one really understood that. And even today, I think, you know, when you bring that up, they, you know, marital rape, excuse me.

56:45The people will say, well, wait a minute, how is that rape? You're married and isn't that what sex, you know, that's having sex with your spouse. So let's talk about that because I think right at that time, marital rape was something that was put into law, right? I think in all 50 states that that was considered criminal. Yes. But there was certain things you had to, um, categories you had to fall under to make it be considered right at all rape. You had to be separated, I think. Yes, you have to be separated and to be considered a big Virginia did not have the law to protect women at the time. And like I said, um, uh, the 50 states did not recognize marital rape in the early, late 80s, early 90s. And that's just impossible. Who can, who can say that your husband rape you, right? That's, that's ridiculous. But even now in some of the states, unfortunately, you know, there's, there's a, uh, uh,

57:48terms in the law, the saying, you know what, there's, um, your husband rape you, um, maybe it's not considerable. Marital rape is a sexual aside and, and, you know, in level one or sexual assault on level two. And let's just not punish him enough because he is your husband, right? Right. And that's supposed to a signature. And even now, right? So in Virginia, when after, you know, my case happened and, and, um, and it was a big talk about, you know, then, um, involving advocates and, um, people who actually wanted to say, hey, you know, feminists, you know, they hang out to that and say, um, you know, this is the time, this is the time that we have to come up and say, you know, um, and say that we need a lot to protect women. It has been rape. And, and so that happened. But, um, he was not charged, you know, I'm sorry, he went to trial for a spousal assault,

58:56right? And, um, eventually he got acquitted. But, um, before that, um, people did not consider Marital rape as a something that, how you're going to present that in court. Right. And it's, I can imagine it's so hard to prove. I mean, it's behind bars doors. It was behind closed doors. But that time, the, the, that night, the event that put us both on trial and sent me to trial, right? That was the, the, the, the, the time that we said, hey, you know what? This, this happened because when they did a rape kit on me, they found out his sperm, right? In my vagina. So, obviously something happened. I mean, women can produce sperm. You know, where is this coming from? Well, I mean, I think the question and still people, you know, will argue, you know, as a consensual, is it not because you're married? Right. But, but there's a, there is like a silver lining there because, you know, you, you,

59:59you have to find certain things that, you know, how you prove this, what happened? Right. You know, right. And, and it's very, I know what you're saying. I know what you're trying to say, but, but, um, in this case, he has been doing this before, right? And, you know, I said that. And the unfortunately thing was that, um, we were not, or the, the prosecutor and was not allowed to present the marital rape and the sexual assault more than five days in his case. In his case. Yeah. All right. So, when I get to that one thing, because that is very important because he was acquitted, and he didn't show the history. Right. So, up until the night in question, you guys have been married for how many years. So, it was about four years. Okay. Yeah.

1:00:59And it sounds like four of the years you were enduring the domestic violence, yes, and the sexual assaults. And it had been getting worse and worse. And that's, hops have been called a number of times. Yes. That is correct. And you had been documenting it, getting pictures and, right. And eventually, and we come to see, especially in watching your documentary, which I really didn't know this, but the fact that you had so many witnesses come forward, you know, all of that was forgotten, I think. Yeah. The documentary really talks about this like unsung hero and this, you know, a person who you happen to be doing her nails. And she noticed bruises all up your arm. And she felt like from watching your story that she really saved, you know, the outcome of the case because she really saw, she could testify that this had happened in the past. It wasn't just on the night in question. Yes. A lot of people saw bruises among me, a lot of people. And until this day, I'm so grateful that I have so many witnesses.

1:02:03And, you know, we have to have the proven, uh, uh, uh, burden of proof. Yeah. So we have to, yes. And so we also have to make sure the facts, the factual events and collect everything, every evidence is there to present to the jury. And in my case, um, it was a lot. You know, it was a lot of evidence. It was a lot of, uh, you know, uh, 2 percent. It was, it was not only the testimonies of the, um, the people, the clients, the Sami, friends and other people, my clients to Sami. But it was also testimonies of experts, um, uh, psychologist and doctors. So it was a lot to, to, you know, um, process. Yeah. And, and did anyone try to step in before the night that it all happens? Did anyone try to, uh, stop him? Have a conversation with him? Have a conversation with you about leaving?

1:03:04Um, so, or did everybody mind their own business? So a lot of people mind their own business. But, um, I was telling my neighbors and they said, you know what? I'm, I'm ready. I'm fit up. I'm ready to go. And, uh, I just, I just don't want to be married anymore. I mean, this is, this is horrible. I don't, I don't feel happy anymore. And, um, you know, it's just, uh, one neighbor. I remember, um, Miss Ella Jones, uh, she, she was, uh, my neighbor. She was, uh, an abused, uh, spousalism before. And she gave me, um, some pamphlets, some, some literature. Oh, and, on a spousal abuse. And, um, because I remember there was no shelters around that I could go to. There was no resources, um, in the early 90s. I mean, we were talking about 35 years ago. Yeah. There, there was no, uh, national, uh, domestic violent hotline

1:04:07that I could call. And your parents weren't here. And my parents were not here. Right. My parents, yeah. Yeah, there's no home for me to go back and go back to Mrs. Kastrahaus, my cousin's house and say, I have been abused because I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. And, you know, victim blaming. It's just really happened. And, um, that, that's the most important thing too that, you know, I was just very ashamed. And, and I believe that I was, sometimes it's my fault because he used and manipulate me saying that this is your fault. Or this has happened because of, you know, you're questioning me so much or this and that. And, uh, you know, this is terrible because a lot of women don't, don't have a place to go. But now they do. Now we have shelters, right? I think I've changed through the years. So we have done a lot of improvement, uh, to save victims of domestic violence and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. But at the same time, it's like, okay, there's a revolving door that, you know, you leave the abuse and it's a process.

1:05:07And women take up to seven times to, to leave the, the abusive husband or, uh, abusive relationship of intimate partner violence because, you know, they, they don't feel that, oh, they, they believe that they can fix again the, the marriage or, right, if they're children, they're pets and, um, they simply love them or their husband said, I want to change or something and they believe them or they choose economically dependent. Right. Exactly. Okay. So let's talk about that night. Um, from what, well, why don't you tell me what your members first of all, just quickly tell me what was your frame of mind that night? I know he went out, um, right? He went out. You worked late. He went out with his, I worked late. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. You were saying no, no. I mean, so I would, I worked very late. I always worked late. I had two jobs and, uh, I worked late very late because the salon closes at eight o'clock. By the time I home, I was home, I was, it was nine o'clock, nine thirty. I was exhausted. So I fall asleep and, uh, obviously he wasn't,

1:06:09not home. And, uh, who knows where he was. I have no idea. And you have to understand with you also that time. Yes. You always have people stay there. There's always people. There's always somebody on my, my sexual life, my marriage, sexual life was not normal. Because there's no way. How can you have, you know, into, how could you be intimate with your husband when somebody else is there leaving with you? Right. You just get it. It's just impossible. So, and some bears, no, no way. So, um, yeah, there's his friend. He brought his friend when he's best friends, best friends to live with us. Mm-hmm. And, um, is him, is, was Robbie. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I said, oh my gosh. So, oh my gosh, I should do this. So in one apartment, we have one bedroom. The, the, the apartment had one bedroom. Finally, we have a one bedroom apartment, you know, doors and closing doors and everything. So in our living room, he went to, um, home depot,

1:07:11to buy the supply woods to, to put up a wall. Oh my gosh. And so, of course, I was like, asking what was it? He wasn't doing home any time. So, no, exactly. So I said, you know, this is illegal because we're renting and you can now construct another room in the living room because, you know, this is totally illegal. And so, of course, we're going to have a fight there. So, every time. And so, I happened to have a fight. I was, I was like, like I said, it was like, yes. I mean, I will question things because this is no normal. And, um, he will fight me. Right. And I said, no, I can put a wall in, in my friend Robbie is going to stay here with, living with us. And I said, yeah, but, you know, you, I will have to even move where you guys have to take over the lease. Mm-hmm. There was a fight for that too because I said, I'm not going to be in the lease anymore. We, you're going to have to sign. And of course, he didn't have any good credit because he didn't have a job. You know, he was bouncing from job to job. And he never really had a stable income, a stable job.

1:08:14So, there was a, you know, it was arguments because of that. His job, he couldn't retain a job. He didn't make any money. He wasn't a good provider. Mm-hmm. And then the questions about building up another room in the living room where we're, you know, supposed to. So, of course, we're going to have arguments. And then he will be freaking out. And abuse me physically and rape me. Mm-hmm. And it's just, you know, a very traumatic experience to be. So, I was trying to, you know, walk around egg shells. Yeah, around him. Right, I see. So, that night, you get home late, you were exhausted, you go to sleep, where you had you guys, I know that you had had bruises already on you because I heard the testimony from the woman who had seen you at the nail salon two days before. And so, you already had, obviously, had a very bad beating, you know, the recent days, whatever it was.

1:09:14Right. So, but that night where you guys fighting, were you not speaking? I was not speaking at all because I was, I was exhausted. I said, you know what, this doesn't go, is not going to go anywhere. Mm-hmm. I was just going to go ahead and eventually find out a place to live, or, you know, my own, whatever. And that was it, you know, the show numbs home at what he says is 315 in the morning with his friend. Yeah. And he gets in bed. And he says he doesn't remember much. But what is your recollection of those moments? So, Rachel, I think I, you saw the documentary. I made a documentary, I made a movie about it. I don't necessarily have to go to those places because I don't, you know, it's all in the documentary. And people are welcomed to see. People shine. They, in prime time, yes, it's, I'm a zone prime. And I think it's important to the, you know, disnew generation also.

1:10:16And I made the documentary in movie because of that, because I wanted to create awareness, I wanted to create something that visual and visualize. I mean, most people are more visual. And is there for everybody to realize? The reason why I ask, and I understand that, but the reason why I ask is because people, I think, when they, when they hear about what happened, don't understand if there had to be something that happened that moment to you, for you to retaliate, retaliate, the way you did. And what we learn later and have learned from you is that this was, you know, battered woman syndrome. It's, you know, it's something that accrued over time and it didn't just happen that moment exactly. And, you know, the feelings were building up and building up until what you say is you snapped that night. I wouldn't necessarily say, I know that it's overrated, snap, because the feelings,

1:11:16well, what word would you use? I'm sorry, I should have put it in your mouth. Well, I am not the doctor, you know, I'm not a psychology. But I think is the accumulation of those, you know, feelings, it's just my mind just couldn't take it anymore. My body couldn't take it anymore. The escalations of being a, as a, a diagnosed, as a battered woman syndrome, it's, it's just that, everything that, you know, and, you know, a lot of people get confused because a lot of people said, okay, so the legal aspect of it will say, okay, so, you know, you have other avenues to take and you could leave, you know, you could do this, you could go away. But the psychological aspect will say something else that, you know, you always, being a battered woman means that you always leaving fear. So something is going to be there.

1:12:18You always going to have a being in a survivor mode. A survival mode is when you always leaving fear and you learn to, to, you know, to cope with those feelings, but you always are afraid. And so, and that was very difficult to understand even for me, because I didn't, even though I leave through that, I mean, I leave through those, those, those episodes of abuse and, yes, being a victim of domestic violence and abuse and rape, my or to rape, I know that something happened to me, that my body, my mind, I was not in the right mental stage. Sure. And so, you know, it's just so much accumulation of that abusiveness. Well, I think it's interesting because people hear the story and they make judgments or they say what they would have done. Oh, well, if that happened to me, I would have done this. But I don't think anyone could really say what they would do unless they were in that situation.

1:13:20Absolutely. So, they just really don't know and they've probably never been through something that absolutely traumatic or to feel the feelings that you felt. And I think it's important for people to remember that you didn't need to have had one occurrence, you know, that night to do such an extreme thing. For you, it was over the course of time and something happened to make you, you know, I don't want you to so we're snap again. So, something happened to make you act out in a way that you felt like you had no other options and it just, that's what happened. That's right. And I think that, you know, it's funny because I always tell my daughter because, you know, we tend to judge, right? I mean, I judge when I was a teenager, of course, you know, but then when being literally judged in the Korla, it teach me a lesson. It teach me not to be more empathic and have sympathy for others as well,

1:14:23because those two things, because not only, you know, I feel the pain, the empathy of an abused woman or a woman of survivor who is going through domestic violence, but I also, I'm sympathetic with them because I know, I know, so I feel the pain and I know the pain that, you know, this woman are living and even men too and in children, you know, so domestic violence is a social epidemic as I call it because it is not only here in the United States, but around the world. And, you know, when you, when I go out with my friends and I see, you know, a table of four ladies or four, four young ladies, and I said, well, the statistic of one out of four women is abused, but have experienced an intimate partner violence. If that statistic is true, that statistic comes alive right there when I see those four girls, absolutely one of them.

1:15:24So it is very sad that people judge or make judgments because what they heard in the news or what they simply don't know and it's very important to, and this is what I tell my daughter, I said, you know, when you, before you judge, make sure you know and gather all your factual things, your facts is important because that makes who you are and it's a difference between, it's a difference between an educated opinion versus an uneducated opinion. And it's with anything, it's with a person is when you want to buy a pair of shoes, you can try it on, see if you like it, you know, or a TV or what? Okay, so, Lorena, you could say this with such authority because you've been through it. I say the same thing to my daughter because, you know, in these, in this day and age, it's interesting that so many people want to comment on every subject and want to be a part of it and think that they know about these subjects and have opinions and they don't know the people,

1:16:26they don't know the story, they've never been through anything remotely like it. And, you know, see people reading gossip magazines or looking at gossip and reading social media and TikTok and having an opinion, even a political opinion. And, you know, it's so, I always am saying to my daughter, when I hear them gossiping about whatever, you don't know those people, you don't know why, you don't know if what you're reading is true, you don't know how they felt, you don't know anything about that. And when you hear people dislike someone, why, how could you just do know them, have you spent any time with them and then when they fall in love with somebody and they're enamored, why? What do you know about that person? You know, so I feel like I'm very similar that I'm always like, you have to have an educated opinion. Op, opinion, it's the biggest, like, yeah, it's the biggest thing that I tell people. Yes, plus it makes who you are. You are representing yourself and plus, I tell her, you know, but just go ahead and be good and represent us well. Yeah, that's true. That's easy. Yeah, because it's just really a matter of who you are. And, you know, look at

1:17:32yourself in the mirror and before you say something, you know, you just have to understand the whole aspect of it, you know, see the whole picture with the four corners, not just, you know, a mirror that is telling you, oh, I heard this and I gonna make because they can also, opinions can be misinformative as I am. Of course. So, okay, let me just get back to the night for one second because then, you know, the police get involved, obviously. I'm curious, were you ever, you were never in jail, were you? No, I was never in jail. So, John never pressed charges. Is that how that, why didn't I don't understand? Because if that happened now, I feel like that person would know, quite immediately. So, so, the way how he went was that my friend took me to the magistrate and then, you know, obviously, she was doing to speak it. I wasn't even reading the Miranda rights. Like you had the right of an attorney or something. That's what a lot of things happened.

1:18:35It got complicated because I say things that it was misunderstood and it was not completely. And I should have had an attorney press and because of my broken English and the way how I can spread and they interrogated me. You know, it's like the hospital, the police state. The question. Yeah, I was just, you know, and it led me, it led me go and it was very late at night. So, so I left. And but I, he said, you have to go to the hospital and during the house, during the time that I was in the hospital to get the, it was ironic because we're in the same hospital. He was in the other side of the hospital. I was in the other side of the hospital. So, he was obviously being treated for, you know, his, yeah, dismembered, oh, his, his penis. Yeah. I tried to be gentling. We're trying to reattach him. Yeah. I don't know how, how at the point I'm just curious. Like, were you asking about, were you like, is he okay? Were you, or were you angry? So, so,

1:19:41no, I was not, I would not use angry because I was more in shock. I was scared. And I was, I didn't know the outcome of the situation, which, which just happened. Right. Because at this point, I still didn't know what happened. Right. But it was only, you know, two people involved and one person is injured this way. Obviously, you know, it's obviously, then the other person did it. Right. So, I put this two and two together and I said, okay, well, you know, I did this. And I was interrogated by the police officer and so many questions flowing around. Well, you know, I was, I was naked and just, I mean, none naked that the police officer was seeing my body. But I was just, you know, without a hospital robe that they give you, you know, just very, and it was intimidating. And I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what, what it was, what was going on. And I didn't understand

1:20:42many things. So, it was very difficult for me to go through that. So eventually, your names get released in the paper, which is where I think the story really turns. Because obviously, you were dealing with your own turmoil, the shock, you know, the confusion, the figuring out what's going to happen next legally and with your husband, right. But then, you know, a news outlet released is your names. And then, yes, your life's, I'm assuming changed. What happened from that woman on? I mean, you became a joke. You became a headline. So, yes, I, um, and national, international level, not just in your little town. No, it was, it was just like all over, it was amazing. It was people around my house with cameras. And when I came back during the, you know, the whole time, it was really, it was an explosion of some of something. Remember, we didn't know how the internet, I mean, I'm sorry, there was something called the World Wide Web, which is, you know, but we didn't

1:21:47have Google, we didn't have social media. Times were different. And even though times were different back then, it was a big deal. It was a sensationalism of everything. And my picture was all over. It was, you know, the news who circle around the globe, the whole world. It was a, you know, I never really expect that. I thought it was me and my husband issues only. And all of the sudden, I find myself in the middle of this speculating and in tabloids and, yes, and, and jokes. And yeah. And I just want to remind people that this was a time when tabloid news was like, really at the forefront, it was just incoming something big. And it was stories like, I think it was a little bit after you or maybe during, but Tonya Harding and Nancy Carrigan and Menenda's brothers, oh right. You know, killing, killing their parents and, you know, all sorts of different things that were, you know, Amy Fisher and Joey Butterfucko. Oh, yes. All these things.

1:22:50The story. Yeah. Huge stories though. Public could not get enough of some of their story. Was, you know, even more thrilling for people because it was like, it was so crazy. But at the same time, you started to see women that would say, oh, she did what I wish I could do. And, you know, but would never imagine that I, you know, could get away with. So it was everyone had their own opinion and men were cringing and women were either cheering you on or maybe making other judgments. But how did you get through that? What, you know, you were living, you went and lived with your boss. Is that where you ended up? So, yeah, you're right. I mean, you know, you hit the nail right in the head because, you know, times were very difficult. The typoids were have a free-for-all. And it was very commercialized. And that's what they wanted to sell, you know, make more money, and most of the editors were men, right? And they, the man tell the women what to do even though the the woman wanted to write decent stories and focus on

1:23:54domestic abuse, the narrative was totally changed into more focusing to the him losing his penis. And so domestic violence was really overshadowed, right? And that's when the activists in, in advocate decided to grab this story and really fight fight it over. And, you know, I remember Vawa, the Violence Against Women's Act. That was not it didn't exist for me because, you know, it was more like brand new in price and inviting, which was Senator inviting at that time from Delaware was just the beginning of drafting this this act, right? To protect women. And in my case, I will, I will say it was, my case was instrumental for activists and for people who were trying to

1:24:57make laws and past legislation for government, for the government to protect women. And so that did not came after, in 1994, it came after like six months after my trial, which I think it was a landmark for for changing the laws and protecting women's rights country. So I think something would come out of it even though it was a lot of tabloid and I was vilified and I was diminished to a cartoon, you know, yeah, you were supposed to, that was supposed to cartoon. And it was joke, God, and it was dehumanized. And this is what, you know, the court of public opinion came in. And this is what, you know, I think that public depotally needed to be more educated. And this is exactly what I have done documentaries to gather the factual events and say, hey, this is, this is the proof that this is what happened, watch it. Right. And, and I think, and that's what

1:25:57the important part of the lesson is, is that, you know, people looked at it as she was crazy. And, you know, he must have done something to deserve it, but no one deserves that. And then if they talked a little bit more, well, why didn't she just leave, this is terrible. And then they kind of forget about the story. It's like, funny, you know, Howard Stern made a huge joke, you know, her all-dow, you know, seemed to be a complete nightmare, but said and not, you know, just wanted to get you, you know, in front of the mic because getting you as a, you know, as an interview, they just wanted to find out, you know, how you did it. And, you know, why you did it and not really to see the why, but like, you know, why it happened that night, you know. And I think that that's what people eat up, but they literally forget the rest of it, that there is so much bigger of a story. And you've made your life, your life's mission about helping people and getting the recognition and understanding what domestic violence is. I just want to get back to one thing

1:27:00about the case because he was, he, both of you, you know, were charged with something, right? And yes, I think people also forget that he was charged. And he was acquitted, but it was a shorter amount of time they had to prove. And, you know, did that make you nervous that he was acquitted? Did that make you nervous for your child? Yes. Well, if they found him innocent, I'm going to be the guilty one. Yes, it was very much because I said, well, you know, he's, he's acquitted already. So I was, I was not sure where my case is going to go. Yeah. And so it's not looking good for me with a jury or a public opinion. Right. And so even the jury, I'm sure that they're not supposed to, you know, watched the news or something, but I'm sure, you know, it's in the wrong way. No, it was impossible. I already didn't see it. Right. Yeah. It was impossible. Oh, exactly. So, and it was everywhere, right? And it was overwhelming. I'm happy to hear your court case. John went on like a media tour. Yes, doing porn and all sorts

1:28:04of crazy things, right? Yeah. To make even more of a joke. Right. Even, even, even operate himself to make his penis bigger or enlargement. I mean, so obviously, you know, he was in a deal like this form, him or something. Yes. Yes. I mean, so the news didn't stop. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. The joke didn't stop. No, never. And so, you know, like, and the worst thing is that that, you know, like, how could you joke about something tragic, you know, a traumatic story on a human being? Right. You know, and a woman, how could you make that a joke? I mean, there's, and so I started to feel very isolated alone. And so, but the more I saw activists and advocates to advocate against domestic abuse and sexual assault, I felt that it was necessary to me that, you know, hey, you know what, I just going to walk with my hate hide. And this is, this is not, and I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to count on an activist and advocate. And I'm just going to do my speeches about

1:29:08against domestic violence and my assault, sexual assault, and all of this. And I empower myself with, you know, doing that. And that's what I do. And I created a Lorraine Egaalofam Foundation, which, you know, the mission is to, to, to, to state, to help domestic violence victims, to be away from it, through education, and community engagement, and also resources, to actually help this woman, which is very important for them to escape domestic abuse or any relation of abuse, obviously, if they are with the children, if they have children as well. So, I think it's very important to, to, for women, you know, to empower themselves and help other women, because this is, this is a matter of, you know, of helping each other. And, and also, we're never going to reach gender equality if we don't, you know, help each other. Right. And, to be, and to put this in an awareness, you know, as a domestic violence is a social epidemic.

1:30:12And so we have to create more awareness in order to continue this, this battle against domestic abuse. What do you think is most misunderstood about domestic violence? Um, many factors, I think the misunderstood is that they don't understand why people don't leave. Right. Why, why they stayed in, in a domestic violence situation. It's easy for me to judge or to say, hey, you know, if you're a views, then you just be cap and leave. It's not easy. It's a process, right. And it takes, we just talk about it. We take women up to, it's statistically seven times to leave because it's a reward for a volving door. And, um, as I say, it's more dangerous to, uh, dangerous, yes. Yeah. Well, you have to be very careful with that because, um, women leave in fear in the women who leave in fear. They're always leaving. So, oh, I, and yeah. So, but there's, but there's also, they're going back. And that's the trick part of it. And the

1:31:14most dangerous part is to actually knowing that in the perpetrator, your perpetrator, your abuser knows that you're leaving and they are going to lose that control over you, right. And that is some even more angry when making what's making more angry and makes them more dangerous. Because if he knows that he's, you're leaving, you're leaving him, then he's not going to have control over you. He's not going to manipulate you anymore. So it's taken away his control. And then he can come back and, and, and kill you or, you know, there's a lot of women who have left the abusive relationship and, uh, their abusive husbands have going through their work and also kill innocent people. So not only kill you, but kill. And sometimes they even kill themselves, you know, after they commit, uh, the murder suicide. But, uh, and the police are in dangerous, too, because there's, um, they don't know what to expect in a domestic violence situation when they

1:32:15go and they even say that they fear to go to a call of domestic violence, but they have to do it because it's their duty, right. They have to as a police officer. But, um, it's very important to know that, you know, women who are trying to leave, uh, domestic violence, um, situation. Yeah, they are very endangered, right. I want to circle back to one thing because your case really brought up, um, the facts of marital rape. But it also, you know, you, you, you, you, you were fighting your charge on temporary insanity, um, do, do, do the battered women's syndrome, correct? Is that how, yeah. And you want you, you were acquitted. I mean, I don't know, I want to say it worked for you are acquitted. How did that feel going through that trial? Just really briefly, were you scared? So I was very scared and, and very uncertainty for me, because I didn't know what was going on. But, um, I was over a plea bargain. And I did not

1:33:17took the plea bargain because why? Because, um, because I, I felt that at that time, I felt that, okay, it doesn't matter if I go to jail or not, it was my time of to take the story, to tell the story. It's my time to, to tell the world what happened. It was, I had to tell the truth. And so, I, and I was doing it because it was very important for me. And, um, then I realized, I'm not alone because all the support that I have when I, in the core outside of the core, by the way, I really, until this day, I'm very thankful for that, for the support that I have. And, uh, shots you can still see them today. Yes. I'm very grateful, cheering for you and you smiling. Yes. I helped a lot. And I'm very grateful until this day, I thank them all of them because they helped me to go through that. Every time I step into that core, um, building into the courtroom,

1:34:21it helped me, it gave me, you know, strength. And, and I was really appreciative of that. And even though, um, you know, it, it will happen a long time ago, I still feel the, the loving of young people. Yeah. Um, also with the plea deal, if you had taken it, it would have affected your citizenship. Correct. Correct. And, uh, so he was threatening me and this is very important now that I'm glad that you mentioned because a lot of women, immigrant women do not report cases of domestic abuse because of the same fact that they are in the situation of immigrant, right? The status. The status is compromised by, and it's used against you when your perpetrator is taking or threatening you to, to tell you, oh, I'm going to call the police and you're legal and I'm going to order them deportation and you're going to go back to your country. So he's using and manipulating you against you. And, uh, it is very sad that he is have control over that.

1:35:23So, see again, domestic violence is a type of, is a, is a control, is a behavior, is a pattern of behavior that the abuser is using you to control you and to manipulate you. And, and normally that, but I mean, he use gas light, gas lightning and, um, coercive control, which is part of the, you know, I'm very happy to talk about the coercive control because, um, a senator Rubio, Susan Rubio from California approached me and called me and said, you know, I'm working on this bill to pass to Congress and I want you to help me with it. So I was, I was helping to put in and I'm so proud that I did that. And I have a copy if you wanted to read about that. And the original, of course, is in my while frame. Oh, I thought that because, yes, and, um, because I, I helped pass that law, of course, the control with, um, Senator Susan Rubio

1:36:25from California. And it was amazing. Yeah. Um, so just quickly, there's the iconic, you know, video of you standing up as the, as they're reading the verdict. What did you think? Before the, like, the moments before they said guilty or not guilty. What I thought, right when the lady come up to, to read the verdict. Okay. So I am glad that you, um, ask me that question because no one asked me the question, first of all. And because, I did not know what to expect. I just hope for the best. And it was my life, whether I going to go for 20 years to, to prison because that was the sentence. If I was going to get convicted, or go home, or go home. Right. And so I saw this lady and she is smiling. And when

1:37:27they said, the judge asked her, uh, are you rich? Do you guys reach the, the juror reached the verdict? And she said, yes, with a smile in her face, with a smile in her face. And I said, oh my god. So that's good news. And I catch that up on her. And when she read it, um, not guilty, the verdict, it was a big, even more relief for me. Yeah. But I knew that once I saw her smiling, right? You had, I knew it. I said, oh my god, god is great. Because, you know, this is what the truth literally said, je free. And I said, I have basically a relief. But I didn't walk out of the, the door, you know, the front door, the court, I went to the back of the door on the courtroom. And so that was confusing too, because I did not know. But because I was, um, acquitted by the reason of temporary insanity, I have to go through a series of evaluations like, and, you know,

1:38:33to a psychiatric hospital. And so I went there to the central state for 45 days. And, um, in part, I felt that it was a relief from the media. Mm-hmm. I remember, uh, Barbara Walters wanted to interview me. They sent a helicopter, you know, to go around central state, uh, the, the hospital. And it was, it's like, they never leave me alone, right? And so in anything for a tabloid story that was there. So thank god I went there. I did my 45 years, sorry, 45 days, um, in, in the hospital. And, um, I was, I was at peace. I was at peace with myself. I was at peace with, uh, you know, having this, this therapy, you know, coming from, from, from the state for, for the therapies for your life could now start. And I knew that I could have the opportunity to restart my life again.

1:39:34Mm-hmm. And that's, um, that's basically it is. But I tell you, it was not always happy after, after all that, after the release and everything. Mm-hmm. I, I did struggle. I, I know a lot of people said, Oh, yeah, she's fine. After, you know, she's no guilty. She went to have her therapy. No, it wasn't like that. It was a very struggle to find jobs because everybody, first of all, recognized me. Yeah. I couldn't go to the grocery store without me being recognized. I couldn't go, you know, to a restaurant or, you know, to eat something, or, you know, to a coffee place to, to have a cup of coffee because it was difficult. And, um, I have some setbacks and I have more horals to go through and bumps to go through because, you know, finding a job was difficult. Um, you know, they, my job did you end up getting well, I wanted to be, you know, the same thing a manicurist. And, uh, you know, that's, that's what I, I know I know that's what I knew and that's what I needed to do for. So go back to manicurist. And so, um, it was very difficult. I know that, um,

1:40:40I was, um, and I hate to say this, but I'm, I'm gonna say it because I want people to know what really happened. Um, so to me, as a woman and being vilified by the media, of course, people are going to, you know, recognize me everywhere. So I said, I'm going to have to get really shot, but I had the opportunity to go back to work not as a manicurist, but, um, in a law firm. And, you know, this man offered me a job. And while I was there, I was actually didn't realize that, he was using me, you know, every time I go, like, he will invite me to a restaurant and then, you know, he will go with me just to be seen with him and to take advantage of him. And, um, and then on top of that, he made a sexual advantage, advantage, advances. And, um, I was like, you know, this is pathetic. This is horrible. I would choose to come from a trial. Right. Um,

1:41:43I would, I just came from a traumatic event in my life, an extraordinary event of my life. And then this, right, it's like you're on personal me to situation. So it's to the fact, yeah. And I was like, really, yeah, really this, this happening. Wow. Again, I mean, being victimized by, by this person, you know, it's great. They will for me the job, but you have to accept all that to keep the job. Yes. And also not only that, but, but I didn't know that that was a, at least some kind of condition or something. And, and so it was terrible. He never, yeah, it is. Instead of leaving. Yes, I ended up leaving. Yes, I ended up leaving. And, um, so I went back to being, you know, manicures. My, my friend tried to help me and she knew, she knew they honor and everything. And, you know, friends, it's good to know people because then, so sometimes your name will work. Yes. Sometimes it does. But I mean, but it was a struggle to go back in,

1:42:45to work in high state at the job as much as I can. And then I end up when my parents came from Venezuela, I end up, you know, helping them to find the jobs there too. Right. So it was good. Yeah. Just a few more questions. Um, you know, I would be remest if I didn't ask you how did you date after the fact? Was that hard? Were you on dating apps? No, there's no dating apps. Oh, okay. It was the night, early nineing. Okay. So, so there's no, have you ever been on a dating app? I've never, I've never, I've been with my partner David. Um, for, for actually 30 years now. And, and we have a daughter. Yes. We never, I never get married. I mean, you know, he did. He said, you know, and I said, we know we should plan our wedding. He was like, oh, yeah, I'll show up. 30 years. That's amazing. Yes. So, but did you date a few people before him? Or he was your one and all night? No, he, I did not date anybody because I was a, I was, you know, it was such a trauma, trauma, experience. Yeah. So I never really have the time to, I said, you know, I just

1:43:45going to take care of myself. I got my family came back from, is here from Venezuela. I just going to, you know, just, just try to help myself to leave a normal life. Um, and did he already, now who you were? So I went to college. I went back to college and I met him at college. Okay. Community college. And so he was in one of my classes. He was in history and we took um, social, I think it was like, um, commune, um, what's the class? Anyway, so it was a school education, communication class, communication class. And so he was there. And so we started as a friend and that were, uh, friendship, growing to, you know, respect, respect, growing to love. And then we are here now. We have a daughter. Love, love, love, just, yeah. But at the beginning, he could joke with you about it. He could handle it. He could, he could handle it. He'll never joke or make anything because, you know, uh, you know, how serious, I mean, he, yeah. And so I never asked anything or nothing like that.

1:44:49And it was basically, um, a nice natural, uh, beautiful relationship. Like it should be, yeah, in a healthy, you know, so he, okay, so that's interesting. So he knew the serious nest that he didn't want to be part of the jokes. But he understood who you were beyond those bad lines. Yes. So it didn't even, it wasn't something you needed to know. And as a matter of fact, um, yeah, as a matter of fact, um, he's, one of his best friends served as a jury for his trial. Oh my goodness. It was such a small world. Wow. Yes. Yes. Interesting. I know. And your daughter is how old now. She's 18. Wow. Yes. And what do you tell your daughter when people find out who her mother is? I think she's very smart. First of all, and kids are very smart. They just Google it. And I mean, you know, she went when the documentary come up, obviously, uh, but they were filming at my home. And, uh, you know, it was like a Hollywood, you know, kind of lights and everything. Yeah. Of course. Um, so obviously she was there with her friends. And I have to move her, you know,

1:45:53because she's just so young and, you know, teenagers and everything had to be quiet, you know, because of the filming and stuff. But, um, I mean, you know, she knew and just that simple Google. And when she went to Sundance, the Sundance Festival, um, she was troubled with me and David, of course. And, um, you know, she's some parts of the documentary because the documentary because we were actually, that's where we tried to promote, you know, a marketing, uh, we have to do this marketing. So they were showing it in different, different areas and, and, um, what's it called, uh, the city, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, solid city. Okay. So we went to Utah. And, um, so we were there. And, um, when we came back to the hotel, she told me, Mom, I didn't realize how strong you are. Because, and you know, that just kind of really, oh my gosh, it's just, I can emotional because she understands, you know, those, those, the part of me, the, right, my life, right. So before

1:46:59she was born, of course. And so that was very spent. So she could see you as a survivor and someone to be proud of, which she does. I love that. Okay. Um, have you ever spoken to John? No. No, no, no, no. Do you have any desire to? No. I think, oh, I don't, I think it's interesting. And it's, it's an interesting question. People have asked me to ask you that because when you, when your name is connected with somebody in, you know, as on and Lauren, a bobbit as it is, and the story is so connected, you know, I think people wonder if naturally, you have not, not an affinity. That's a horrible word. But like, you know, naturally, you want to find out what happened to them. Naturally, you need some closure. Um, naturally for people, you might not need closure at all. You know, that might be something so terrible that you cannot be a part of. So I think that that, you know, that's why people wonder because they wonder if you ever became, you know, in a space where you could have some closure or if you even felt you needed it.

1:48:03No, no, no, necessarily. I don't, I don't have any. I mean, if I heard something in the news, because obviously he, once an abuser, always an abuser, he actually beat up a lot of women and he went to jail for, you know, being abusive again to his girlfriend and his wife and another girlfriend. So he was actually sharing, you know, in the same jail, I think, his love, love, love, love for something like that. It's in Nevada with OJ Simpson was. It was at the same jail. So he went there for, um, not too long. Um, John was, um, for again, um, abusive relationships. So when he's just been in the news recently for like losing his toes or something, I mean, clearly he hasn't had the easiest life time. Well, it's kind of sad because, you know, it's, um, you know, now, I guess, you know, once I, he, he had to, he drinks the water and when he was in

1:49:04camp, Lee June and, you know, obviously they said that the water there was so bad that it made some, some kind of, um, illness that he, the circulation, he does what he loves his tent toes. And now he walks with a limp. But, you know, it's, it's, it's life. Yeah. You know, nobody wants to lose any part of your body. And it's sad that, you know, people go at some point, you're going to have to have some illness that is going to compromise your health. Yeah. But, um, you know, I just feel sorry. Um, the Me Too movement, it, it, it happened before your story. Do you think people would have looked at you differently? Um, I'm sorry. What was the last question? Meaning, meaning the Me Too movement where people finally started to believe women or see that there was a real movement in terms of what you were talking about with your boss, let's say, that people had to do things to keep their job. Um, even in your situation with John,

1:50:06do you think that people would have said, well, well, there must be more to this story. Let's look into what happened to her as opposed to her just cutting off a peanut. So any, any time that we have, um, in our society, we have a movement like the Me Too movement. Um, it's very important to realize that that actually come to, to actually, you know, have the workers and especially Hollywood, uh, women who actually, you know, accused their, their directors of sexual harassment and have them hold accountable for what they did. And that's what happened with the Me Too movement. I am so happy that, you know, you know, I'm so humble that, um, a reporter, a male reporter from, um, England was telling me, you know, he said, you know, Lorraine, I see you as the mother of the Me Too movement. And I said, wow, that's kind of odd because, you know, and I have no, no really answer to that. But it was, it was that whole thing. So every time that women are involved in,

1:51:12in such a tragedy and, and, you know, we have to make something good come out of it, um, it doesn't have to be a tragedy for women to advance and serve, you know, you know, what I mean? Of course. And, and so it doesn't have to be that way. Why? So I am glad that we have, you know, the, my, my case serve as an instrumental, uh, you know, uh, situation to help change laws around the countries and, and not only here in the United States, but in the world, because a lot of things, you know, we have this conversation of domestic abuse and, uh, you know, awareness and the conversations going on and on. But also when the Me Too movement came, I was very happy and, you know, to hear that women have some sort of protection. Yeah. And not only the Me Too movement, but the why I stayed, the campaigns, uh, in social media, the why I stayed and why I left and why I didn't left. And so it really come to, to that,

1:52:15to be able to see what our society is doing. And, uh, you know, there's so many, so much, so much more that we can do, you know, it's like we, we have made so many changes and the laws to protect women, but there's so much more work to be done. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I do. And so every time that I feel that we have changed a lot of things, we take a one step forward, but we also take two steps back. And sometimes the last is more cater to the perpetrator than women. And when is the case of when women go and fight custody for children, especially when they are in an abusive situation, when they have immigration situations, when there is a child involved that, you know, the perpetrator said, held that up against you and said, you're going to be deported and then children are involved. And, you know, the mother has to be out of the country. And who knows if you're going to see the child again or not. Right. So it's very sad

1:53:19that the last have to be more, you know, those gaps on the law and the legislation. Yep. Have to be close. You know what I mean? I do know. Amen. Last two questions. Did you ever become an American citizen? Yes. I'm so proud. When did that happen? Oh my god. When did that happen? That happened. Sorry, my allergies. That happened when right after my trial, amazing. That meant to felt terrific. Yes. It felt like, you know, so proud. More than proud, it was a dream come true. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think it's very interesting that you had this passion to be in an American citizen so much so that you wouldn't take the plea deal. You wanted to prove your story. You wanted to have your own voice. Yes. Yeah. Even so, now that you're American, you do live with the stigma. You know, you do live with this story, but you are still, you would rather keep that

1:54:24than not be an American. I think that's kind of powerful too. Yes. I think, thank you. And I think it's very important to know that, yeah, domestic violence still has a stigma. I'm now in society. People, it's like a hush, hush, you know, type of conversation that you you never talk about it. You know, you portray a perfect social media and, you know, the pictures with your loved ones and everything, but behind those doors, you never know what's going on. And I think, I think it's very important to to the stigmatize domestic abuse by making it aware of what's happening, obviously, and instead of being a taboo or being a stigma still. And yes, I always know that I'm going to live with that on that shadow, always going to follow me no matter what. It's like

1:55:24like a scar, you know, like a scar that never goes away. Like, if you have a tattoo, for example, you know, you had to really erase or whatever, but that's never going to go away. But maybe I'm for a war wound that you can use for good and be proud of. Yes. And learn the left hand front. Yes. And that was important. Thank you so much. But I also wanted to say that I use it as a positive in every time a positive situation comes up. Glad to use my platform because that's where, you know, I become my name, I become a brand name. And so I can actually market it in that way for, you know, look, I mean, I am an advocate of against domestic abuse and sexual assault. And I'm so proud that, you know, I do have a foundation and I'm working, you know, this is what I do for leaving. I do a speeches. And, you know, before COVID, that's exactly what I was doing. I was going to colleges and universities to talk and do my speeches.

1:56:27But COVID, we're in it all for all. And so that pandemic, right? And it's like I said, is and then we learned to do it in Zoom meetings and stuff like that. But, but it's not the same. It's not the same connection that you have with when you have this, this people asking you a question. And I love that connection instead of seeing in, you know, monitor a computer monitor. It's, you know, some of them, they're honestly, they're young and I call them kids. I know I shouldn't say that, but they're young and they just decided to turn it off because it's boring. But it's important for them to learn, right? Because it's such an important issue for them, especially in college, to learn about healthy relationships, out for sure. I was going to ask you what you want your legacy to be. From hearing you speak, it really sounds like you want to be known for your work in domestic violence. I do. And, you know, changing the narrative and the importance of using your voice and telling your own story. But I don't want to speak for you. But just hearing you, it's very

1:57:32evident to me that that's what, you know, should be your legacy. What would you like your legacy to be? What would you like to have been out for? I am proud to do what I do as an advocate against domestic abuse. And I, I'm very humble and I am so happy that I made that as my mission is a personal thing. I live through that and I went through it. I walk those shoes of domestic abuse. I walk the shoes of being sexual assaulted by my husband. I walk those shoes and look, I mean, it's, it's very important to, to bring for me through my foundation is very important to bring the dignity of victim who is trying to escape domestic abuse and survivors of domestic abuse. I think it's very important that, you know, my, my, I will say it, one of the futures, and, and this is what we're trying to put together a business plan of, through the foundation, of course, to

1:58:37offer a woman's center that, again, I can, through that, I can offer legal support to women who escaping domestic abuse. I can offer mental health because they need so much. It's very important in this woman's try to escape and abuse and the relationship is, it's very important that they are treated, you know, and they're in the mental stage that they need a psychological help. And so I will offer that when I have my woman's center and of course a shelter in the future is, is in the future an emergency shelter. So, I mean, yes, women don't have the means to, to go, and that's why they stay in a relationship. And it's important to me to make that a mission to, and to bring back, like I said, the dignity of, of this woman, the data serves so much because I was there. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's a personal to me to say that I never forgotten the trauma that I

1:59:44leave through my abusive husband, but I also never forgotten the, what big things go through. And so to me, that will be it. That will be what I will wish. It means to do. Okay, so people can learn more about you by watching Lorraine on Prime Video. Is there anything else where people can reach you? Tell us where we can find out more about your foundation. Yes, is Lorraine a Gallifondition and they can create a WWW Lorraine a Gallifondition. And you can now actually see, you know, my, my organization there is a website. And if they wanted to donate or there's a click button to donate. Okay. And I very much thank you. We were going to link on, on, yes, for the least, to, on, listen, if I'm very proud to also, I did a public, but not public broadcast. I'm sorry, public service announcement. Okay. And, you know, that's

2:00:45there for if you are in a dangerous situation of you are, feel like your life is in danger. Please call the National Domestic Violent Hotline. If you could please, please put a link on that. And it's very important to know that they're, you're not alone and speak up and speak out. You're amazing. I really wish you the best so I can't wait to see what you do in the future. Last question, are you on Instagram where people can follow a little bit about your personal life or do not do social media? No, I took, I'm glad you asked that because I took a break from social media. Okay. Yeah. For protection, for my, my family, my friends, there was a, a time that it was really bad that they can actually steal pictures. And no matter what you put pictures on social media, they choose trying to get it through friends and families. And they make up some stories. And that was no fair. So I decided to just take a break for a little, I'm ready for social media.

2:01:46Well, I'll reiterate everyone should watch the docu series Lorraine. It was so good. I watched it in one setting. It's four parts. It is four fascinating. Yes. You learned so much again. You think you know the story, but you don't know. And it is so I was, you know, rooting for you and still rooting for you. Thank you so much. And also there's a movie called I West Lorraine Obobit is by Lifetime, Lifetime Network. And so please watch that too. Absolutely. And there's, there's a upcoming I'm working in a documentary, but it's not going to be here in the United States. Unfortunately, it's going to be overseas and in Europe. So many so people can find it. Yeah. Okay. So Terrific Lorraine, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. If you've enjoyed today's episode, don't let it end here. Our Patreon community has become one of my favorite parts of misunderstood. It's where I can become more personal answer your questions, share what's really happening behind the scenes and continue conversations that simply don't fit

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