LIVE: The Defense Case Against Convicting Kouri Richins

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1:00Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Victory Lane? Yeah, it's even better with Chumba by my side. Race to chumpacacino.com. Let's chumba. No purchase necessary, VGW Group. Void were prohibited by law, CTs and Cs, 21 plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino. Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy Alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy Alliance today. This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brusky. Here now, Tony Brusky. Let's flip it to the same trial, different lens. The defense is arguing that Corey Richens is innocent that she didn't poison her husband that the investigation was botched from day one and that the prosecution star witness is a drug addict whose story keeps changing. They're hammering every crack in the foundation. Evidence that was never tested. Evidence that was destroyed. Evidence that was collected years too late.

2:02And a witness who admits she was high on meth during the entire time period, she's describing. If you're looking for a reasonable doubt, there's a lot to work with. So what your questions is what we're taking in the comments section and our live right now. Be sure to drop them and also grab the handful over the last week of what we've been seeing from the videos. This is from Brian and Salt Lake City. Carmen Lover admitted on the stand that she tested positive for meth in late January to mid February and early March 2022. That's the exact time frame she claims. She was buying fentanyl for Corey. The defense asked if she was high the whole time and she said, I guess so, yes. How do you trust a witness who is actively using during every event she's testifying about? Todd, you said you watched a lot of that. What was your take? Well, and that Brian, that was my question exactly. I mean, not only did she admit to that, but her recollection of the investigation and the conversation she had with police officials

3:04back three, four years ago didn't match up in her testimony with the prosecution. And when kind of drilled down on by the defense, she wasn't able to explain any of that kind of stuff away either. So not only do you have the fact that she admitted to using meth during this time period, there's a lot of confusion in her mind. And I can understand where she's at. It's tough to remember specific details this far away from the actual incident and activities, but it's really hard for me to sit here and say that there's anything coming out of her mouth that I find believable in any way, shape or form at this point. And as we're recording this, she's still on this stand. They're still drilling down on her. The defense is really growing strong. The fact that there doesn't seem to be any real dispute that drugs transferred from the guy to Carmen to Cory. Like that process nobody's arguing.

4:05Like that something was transferred several times over. But if you really look at what's really being argued here by the defense and I think it's really just to create confusion, is the semantics of it and the name of what the product is. Yes, Eric died of a fentanyl overdose. And in the process of whatever was put into his drink, it was called propyl, it was called oxy, it was called fentanyl, it was called everything from all of these different people. I don't think any of them truly knew what the hell they were getting other than Cory said, I want stronger stuff. And that's what they got. I don't think it matters. Because I don't think Cory knew what the hell she was getting or why she was getting it other than it was strong enough to kill him. Because she made the Michael Jackson stuff reference, which is propofol, which is not something she got. And it's administered completely differently. So it's, I don't think it matters.

5:08I just, I think at the end of the day, it's like, look, you kept asking for stronger shit. They kept upping it. What does it matter if it's rat poison or penzoil? Sorry, they caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting you to say, penzoil. And it was kind of funny yesterday, the defense, the lawyer for the defense who's doing this, the witness testimony was kind of arguing with Carmen about whether or not blues, the name blues on the street actually meant fentanyl back in the day. And they're kind of going back and forth. And Robin and our chat actually made a very good point. The defense is kind of coming off as a bully here. And I have to agree with that. I will say that I don't trust Carmen's testimony at all, but the defense is really coming off as a bully. And I will tell you that just watching this trial and even her interaction with the judge at times, he's had a reprimander a couple of times for her take on things.

6:08And some of the things that she said about the prosecution and all that kind of stuff, it's a very interesting dynamic in that courtroom. Actually not one that I've seen, all the trials that I've been involved with covering on the hidden killers. So this is the first time I've actually seen the judge kind of get really upset with somebody on the defense. What is your take on her as an attorney? I was just, I was taken aback immediately. It's interesting to me because everybody has different opinions. Bob the other day is like she's doing great and he's a defense attorney. I was like, this is like Phyllis from the office if she had a sister that went to community college to be an attorney and this is what you got. Seems like probably a lovely woman, probably very funny and has great stories, but not necessarily I'd want representing me on a murder case. She just seemed kind of clustery kind of like,

7:09I don't know, didn't really quite have all the teas crossed and the eyes dotted or might have mixed up what to cross and dot. I don't know, that's been kind of my take. Yeah, Kathy Nester does not seem, and I'm pleased I'm not trying to rip on any of them, but maybe not the brightest bulb in the box of that team. Wendy Lewis is the one who's been actually asking the questions on the cross direct on Kekarman. And she's a bully and she's the one who's kind of gotten some reprimand from the judge. Alexander Ramos is the other lawyer who's involved with that team. He seems to be pretty straight and narrow and kind of has this stuff together, but yeah, Nester is a little different. What about blood worth? What do you think of blood worth? I really feel like he could have been like the cousin that showed up for three episodes of the Adam's family or something. I wouldn't say that he's very strong either as a choice. I mean, I'm not necessarily as a choice, but in the court room,

8:09I'm not saying that he's necessarily the strongest one I've seen either. But I would say this, I feel like they're all kind of in the same weight class, if you will. They're all kind of like, okay, like I don't feel like any of them are really outgunned by the other. I don't see one that's like, that's a damn good attorney. I feel like they're all like, they're okay. So I think that makes the playing field more level because you don't have like a superstar over here. That's just wiping the floor with everybody. Anyway, that's just my conjecture, my opinion. I don't know, I'm sure they're lovely people and they're doing the best to their ability. But yeah, I don't know. Robin made a point about the judge. I think the judge has been very, very good in this trial. I'm kind of blown away by how good he is, but she said that judge his very white voice. I could listen to him read the phone book. He's just very calm. And when things kind of go awry, he's just very even keel, very organized.

9:09I really like how he's presenting on the stand. Yeah. Grab that last, the DJ comment there. What is this? What do you make of her covered face and no eye contact on body cam footage? Isn't that deception? You know, a lot of, that's not so much what got me, what got me most in the body cam footage was when they said in no uncertain terms that they're going to take him to do an autopsy. Her response, her response, because she was already kind of doing this. And then it's like, you know, because he's, you know, relatively healthy, young guy, he didn't say autopsy, but he alluded to it that you know, they're going to go test and then see, you know, if there's anything else that play here, basically, and when that happened, then it was, then it was like, why would you be reacting like that to that? Right, if you really thought,

10:10if you thought the loved one had passed away, again, take out of this situation that they obviously were having struggles, she didn't seem to care much for him, et cetera, et cetera. Wouldn't you just want to know what happened? Like, of course. And of course, please, please do an autopsy so we know what the hell went on here. Yes, like, let's figure this out. That would be, I wouldn't be throwing my head back and my hands in the air like, in defeat, because that's what that red like to me, like, oh, shit. Yeah, like now, like the jigs up. I mean, it wasn't for her amazingly, because there was no investigation. It seems initially that this was even a homicide because all the obvious things were never tested, but that to me was really telling if we're to look at the body language. The rest of it, she's got reps at deceiving people. She's got reps at getting her way for her 30 some years of life and manipulating people.

11:12You can just tell and she's good at it and she's been able to do it. She's not good at it. She's not accustomed to being told no. She's not accustomed to people seeing beyond her mask. And now she doesn't know how the hell they handle it because it's being called that left and right. So she's playing the Donna Adelson role of, you know, meek, meager. I'm just, just little me. At least that's my conjecture on it. What did you think of the, I've seen some comments over the last week or so as we've covered this about the 9-1-1 call and the recording and how she presented on the call. What were your thoughts on that? She didn't do horrible. Yeah, I didn't think it was like, you know, I thought it was somewhat believable more so than some of the 9-1-1 calls we've heard in trials in the past. It was, there was a weird, I mean, when you're looking, it's weird because you know, when you're looking for weird, you're gonna find weird. If I were to say something that fell off to me was there, there seemed to be a sense of resignation

12:17in a sense of, in her voice, this is kind of tone of kid, I actually did it. I don't know, that's kind of what I got. It was very, it wasn't hysterical. You had a very different woman in that 9-1-1 call that you got on those body cameras. Yes, absolutely. 100%. And that's what, that's the incongruence. That's what Robin would point out. Robin will be here on Monday, by the way. I think is the incongruence and behavior. And that's something that doesn't line up. Because you would think your hysterics would be, you know, ongoing. You would be in the same state. You wouldn't be over here super calm. And then when people show up and the performance opens and the stage is set, now you're suddenly doing this, it doesn't add up. It's one's performative, one's not. It's like two different performances and testing the waters of seeing

13:17how is the audience reacting. I don't know, that's kind of how I took it. But, yeah. I mean, again, everybody greaves differently and that's the argument that, you know, it's going to be made. But I don't know, it did feel odd to me. Yeah, I just thought that 9-1-1 call was, if it was performance, I thought it was one of the better performances that I've heard in covering these cases over the last year or so. It is. We should do a countdown someday of the top 10 9-1-1 calls. We'll have KCK. Number five, yeah. I'll bring KC back from the grave and we'll actually have him do it. That'd be great. And a long distance. Yeah. Dedication. We'll also hold up. We'll get in there. Lots of questions on this case. And we'll see where this goes. I'm very curious to see as to just how many holes they can poke into the prosecution's case.

14:18And what will remain standing at the end of the day? Because there's just certain undeniable truths in this case. I don't care how many holes you poke into it, they're still going to be there. Yeah. Her search history, her digital footprint, that's what's very damaged. Everything else, shitty investigation. They should have tested this. They should have tested that. Yeah, they could have had a more of a slam dunk. I mean, there's also ways where this, I think actually could have worked. It had Corey been a little smarter. If she did this and she wanted it to look more like an overdose, just leave some of those pills next to him. You're right. He did it. Right. And the story, now they're missing. That's what makes it suspicious. That's what makes it more weird. Yeah, I mean, there you go. Sad I have to tell you how to be a killer. You're going to have a class now. You'll travel the country. I'm a killer consultant.

15:18I've never killed, but I consult the killers. Consultant to the killers. Yeah. And consultants fell with a cage, just so it goes with the killers. It'll be great. All right, well, your guys are thoughts in the comments section, leave them there. We'd love to hear them. And see them and we'll continue the conversation there. Next week, well, actually, depending on when you're listening to this, Robin Drake could be joining us and hitting killers live every single day, Monday through Friday. He's going to be our co-host going forward on hitting killers. So I'm really excited about that. So we'll have a lot of interesting conversation this coming week with Robin and all of our guests. All the guests are still here. Robin's going to be with us with all of them every week here on the channel. So be sure to join us Monday morning or every morning, really Monday through Friday, 11 a.m. Central on YouTube, Facebook and X for those conversations. And of course, the replays we put them out for you,

16:18the channels. All right, we'll continue the conversation in the comments section. Press subscribe until then for Todd. I'm Tony Bursky. We'll talk again real soon. Now, and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Bursky and the Hidden Killers podcast. Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck. I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse. With family, conoles, and spins mean everything. Now, he want to get mixed up in the family business. Introducing the Godfather at choppacicinal.com. Test your luck in the shadowy world of the Godfather slot. Someday, I will call upon you to do a service for me. Play the Godfather. Now at choppacicinal.com. Welcome to the family. No purchase necessary VGW group void were prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Another checkered flag for the books. Time to celebrate with chamba. Jump in at chambacasino.com.

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