Lindsay Clancy Verdict Watch: How Much Longer Can This Go?

0:00Hello and welcome everybody. It is Thursday September 3rd, 2026 and this is a special edition of Corp. from outside of the courthouse in Plymouth, Massachusetts. My name is Joshua Redagrand, I'm a former prosecutor with the L.A. District Attorney's Office. I left there after 10 years to go into private practice as a criminal defense attorney and this is courtroom confidential work. We do our best to present to you both sides of the courtroom, both sides of the issues, both sides of the story. Let me say hello to Becky B and die, die, the hack and Crystal Anderson. Therapists you know, so many familiar names and faces. Thank you guys so much for being here and I know I'm just throwing this at you late and unannounced so I appreciate that but I'm doing the best I can to find some time where I can chat with you and having said that, let me give you a little bit of a warning that in a moment if there is some sort of breaking news I might get snatched away to go cover

1:00that but we're in the middle of the lunch break so we thought it was kind of safe to talk to you all now. What's going on? Well it's day six. The jurors have now been deliberating for I think the last figure I heard was over 30 hours. I will tell you it was 10 hours between the time they sent out the first note saying that they were deadlocked to the time that they sent out the second note saying that they were deadlocked. 10 hours, 10 hours of working and trying to reach a verdict after saying that you're already at an in pass and again they say they're at an in pass at which point the judge gave them this two wee Rodriguez instruction. You know what I would love to do is you know how you can go on Google, Google Trends to find when search words, people have searched for a certain phrase, word or phrase in recent days. I would love to see the trend line for the word two wee Rodriguez because I imagine if flat lines for about a decade and then just spikes over the last 48 hours. The more the many times I have heard two wee Rodriguez I was in

2:04the hotel lobby today and the the the the clerk there such a sweet kind lady was chatting to me about the case and she goes yeah well you know after the judge gave that two wee Rodriguez instruction and it just blew my mind how people are conversant in this very small area of the law now. The judge gives that two wee Rodriguez instruction and since then we've gone I think close to six hours if I'm doing my math right we are certainly approaching another 10 hour period before we are heard from them. Everyone expects that today we will hear from the jury saying that they are probably deadlocked again but with this much time who knows they could be working toward a verdict. I mean it's the only thing I can fathom and the only thing that makes sense to me is the reason why they're taking so long in between indicating that they're deadlocked is because there's a chance that there's some movement. I can't imagine jurors

3:08deadlocked six to six spending 10 hours shouting with each other. Unless that went from six to six to seven to five and then down to you know eight to four and then it starts to make a little bit more sense and the only thing that makes sense for why they're spending all this time since then is if maybe there's one or two holdouts that they're hoping to convince and maybe these people are getting to the point that they might break. I don't know. That's that's me just trying my best to read the minds of what's taking place inside that courtroom and who knows we will never know until this whole thing finishes somehow. Anyhow getting to that to we Rodriguez instruction one thing I wanted to address is there has been a little bit of confusion as to what the judge is allowed to do now after having given that instruction in the state of Massachusetts. First of all let's talk a little bit about where this instruction comes from in the federal side of things in the Allen instruction and

4:13that's where most of these cases are driving their their their authority in order to give this instruction from it's also controversial a lot of states have outlawed it you're not allowed to give this type of instruction the instruction itself doesn't say anything all that abnormal it's not saying anything that isn't normally part of the understanding and instruction that are given to jurors it's just it kind of encapsulates it and really turns up the temperature and the pressure on jurors to come to a conclusion by saying things like listen no one else is in a better position to do this than you don't try to think that if you don't come to a decision now that some other group of jurors will be in a better spot to do it now is the time to do it things like this again not not wrong not untrue not extraordinary for a judge to inform jurors of it's just it's seen as perhaps giving the impression to jurors that if they don't arrive at a verdict they're just

5:18never going to be allowed to go home that the only way that they can go home is if they arrive at a verdict and that's why some states have even outlawed it like I said but here in Massachusetts it is legal and what would happen is after having given this instruction and according to state law of Massachusetts the judge cannot order them to go back and deliberate again if they then indicate that they are deadlocked unless they indicate that they want to continue to devolute which to me is a unimaginable situation you're talking about jurors who are saying we cannot arrive at a verdict or letting you know that but also could you let us go chat some more it just doesn't seem like it would be a situation that a road would arise what I take away from that though is that perhaps it allows for the judge to still ask the question would further deliberation help and that's not an abnormal question I imagine the jurors would say no it wouldn't help we're

6:21done we're telling it we're done but here we are at that point where it's it's been close I mean somebody calculated if you know it but it's been close to you know at least more than half as much time since the first time that they took between indicating that we're deadlocked and now we're still waiting on them so here's the other thing to think about when they come back from the lunch hour it will be 2 p.m. here they have only two more hours in the rest of the day before the judge sends them home so if they're going to do anything today you would expect to get done now Heather Cooper Smith I see thank you so much for the super sticker I'm just seeing this stuff appreciate you go ahead and throw oh there we go Beth Ringo says thanks for spending your lunch with us Josh we appreciate we will appreciate you guys being here who else do we got is if there is a mistrial with the same attorney still be on the commonwealth not necessarily not necessarily they

7:21can decide to to change attorneys that happens often I've worked on trials where we've done that where we've changed the team and sometimes that those DAs or prosecutors are just seeing that's being the best ones tasks for it will be up to their office I see that there was another question someone said is it is a coercion to deliberate until you get others to change their mind that's the problem of what they're trying to avoid here we'll go ahead oh here it is to deliberate until others change their mind that's the problem that some see with this instruction is they almost gives the impression that your deliberations are not over until you get to a verdict at the same time though the instruction does tell them that their verdicts are supposed to be based upon their own opinions so great question Cassandra appreciate that and then go back to the other one that I miss there thank you so much pixie does great coverage Josh I appreciate that I think I miss one Tiffany here we go bluebird says once dynamite given is there a required amount of time no the balls in their court we are waiting on them and I think that they know that but the balls in

8:26their court the judge is not going to do a thing I don't even believe the judge would pull them out and say how we doing where are we at the judges to kind of wait until they write a note they obviously know how to write the notes I'll say something else about these notes from the judge has not been reading them at least it doesn't seem so verbatim from what is written he does say he the first note I remember him saying that it said something like we are unable to reach a unanimous decision but it is unclear to me if he's actually like reading verbatim from the note the reason I point that out at his twofold one the notes themselves are not what I would call the ciferous we've seen other cases where they are much more emphatic about being hung they are they they include words like we are hopelessly deadlocked we have exhausted all measures in which to deliberate there is no convincing us any other way we are deadlocked these notes at least from what we're hearing from the judge don't seem to be that effusive in their

9:30language the other thing is I one thing I'm not aware of is whether or not the judge can inquire to the split here in some jurisdictions the judge will ask don't tell me how you're split uh as far as which way you're leaning but tell me what the split is is it six to six is it ten to two what is it that's very instructive to the judge as to how much more time to get them to deliberate you can obviously understand that they're ten to two eleven and one judge might say go back there you only got a couple of holdouts talk to those people see why they feel so differently from the majority but if it's six to six you've got people who are just so evenly split on this you're probably not going to get to a consensus I even if they spend you know the next 20 days back um the reason I bring that up in regards to the note is that sometimes jurors will put that on the note your honor we are hopelessly deadlocked six six uh the judge has not said that here so either

10:36it's on the note and he's not telling us sports not on the note at all in any way in any case we don't have any idea uh where they are split I've got a couple more minutes here uh before I've got to get back to a bunch of other craziness so let me try to take as many questions and answers or questions in comments as I can Amanda RNNC says for Josh's juice aka i diet coke fun thanks for all you do with thank you guys I appreciate it believe me I had one I don't know what I do with it I get to go find my diet coke people people drink them all right guys you're all fantastic I miss any others you're all fantastic I appreciate you so much I'm so sorry that I keep on doing these things kind you know uh special forces style whether I jump in real quick and and and scatter a bunch of information at you and then jump out again real quick I hope I covered all the kind of lingering issues and topics uh cherry thank you so much for supporting the mods with coffee appreciate that I I will just say this I am not shocked that we were at the point that we're at I think I said this

11:43on the channel last week how long could this take probably a long time could it go into late less next week meaning this week yes would it likely end up in a deadlock I think that you know good money was on the odds of this ending up in a deadlock I will say along the way I wanted to be wrong and and surprise myself into thinking that I they know maybe they are going to get a verdict maybe they're are going to come back sooner than later but this is a very complicated case and a case that people are split and polarized on I've been outside of the courtroom so it would make sense that they would be inside of the courtroom what is surprising to me and all of this though is their silence that I did not expect usually when a jury is hung you get a lot of questions because they're trying to either understand the law themselves and that's what's making them uh unable to decide or they're trying to work on their fellow jurors those

12:45jurors in that minority group the two or three people who are holdouts and and explain to them what they might be missing and that can be done by saying we need explanation on the law we need further can you read back with this this um expert testify to because our notes are different whatever it is none of that now we do know that they have the instructions back there for themselves a copy of it so they may be referring to that but even though even in those situations where they have a copy of the jury instructions you usually get some sort of question what is beyond a reasonable doubt mean what is premeditated mean all of these things not easy to understand concepts and the the instructions themselves not all that easy to understand um but none of that one request to see some physical evidence and then two notes that indicate that they're deadlocked and other than that it's been absolute prickets which is just really shocking to me all right you guys I appreciate you so much thank you so much just jewels for gifting the membership ladies I

13:48don't see any more notes I'm I'm assuming that means that I'm I'm free to go uh you guys are all fantastic calm down girl I think that's a message directly to me says justice for the babies have a coke or a water I'm gonna have both how does that sound you guys are fantastic I appreciate you all again uh well the judge asked if there's anything they're unanimous on uh no I mean the judge might ask oh I see what you're saying like have they reached any verdict on anything I don't think so no and I see what you're saying like could they have said well we're unanimous and not guilty on first degree but we're split on second degree I don't think this is one of those situations where he's gonna try to delve into the minds of that I think he's just I think he's just gonna take take their next note if they say they're hung at its face value and call it a day uh before I go I'm gonna tell you about one free and super fun thing that you can do and that is hit the like

14:48button if you haven't already subscribe if you haven't already you're all fantastic uh watch my live from yesterday when I was outside the courtroom if you want to catch up on some even more coverage on this whole thing um other than that we're over on CC live trials just keeping an eye on this case waiting for verdict as soon as it comes through you'll be the first to know take care everybody bye bye bye