Knowler Knows: The long battle to close a data account

0:00No Leno's time on 7.02 afternoons and I'll consume my feature that we do on Thursday, Happy Thursday, Wendy. How are you doing? Hi, I'm Rachel here. I'm doing great. Hope you are too. I am doing well as well. You know every time we get to this feature, not only are we going to learn, but it is a sign that the weekend is upon us. They have a bottom of it like that. Almost the almost the so let's kick off with this first situation that has come from open line. Yes, it was last week. You weren't in the chair last week, but we're going to play the clip. It was the first listener question we took when we opened the lands. The name is Bruce and he shared with us his long battle about three years long to close his empty and daughter account. His desperation and his frustration was very probable in

1:05that call. So let's take a listen first to set the seat. Hi Bruce. You have a data contract and you're struggling to close the contract. Yes, that's right. For about two years I've been trying to close the contract. I've sat on calls and waited in cues on the health plan and I've gone into the branch on numerous occasions and I've actually had one person promise me that the contract is closed and it just seems that I cannot close it. I've actually managed to stop the debit order from my banking side, but I know I just get statements every single month for a product that I haven't used for probably six years now. And the statement just grows and goes and goes. I've sent emails, I've sent emails through to complaints, I've phoned, I get numbers, reference numbers and I've actually just given up. But the problem is that the statements are growing and growing and I worry that it has to come to a head at some point. Hi Bruce. The other worry is that that's going to be impairing your credit record. So

2:11you have to get it sorted out. Well, I find it so stressful now that it makes me feel physically ill and the idea of walking back into a branch again. For I promise you probably the 11th time, I actually can't chemically face it anymore. Well, you're not allowed and you've given a very graphic account of how this kind of thing can impact on our quality of life. It's horrendous. You haven't mentioned the company's name and I know I'll lovely producer. She did ask you not to, but I'm going to ask you now for the name of the company. Which company are you talking about? It's M-T-N and I really am. I'll make sure at the end of my Twitter. I've gone on to chat to you, T-F tried to find different channels that I can contact and I've sent email last to email, knowing that I'm not going to get a response, but at least there's some kind of a mystery. I've got to the point where I'm thinking of hiring a lawyer just to say, please don't come on, I'll make the problem go away or please.

3:13I can sort it out for you in days, Bruce. You've gone through enough. You'll make sure. Seeing me in email, they have a lovely, lovely immediate liaison person who's very efficient and that will be the end of it. Okay, a very frustrated situation, but we know because we speak about it so often, a windy how something so small can impact your life in such a great way. Absolutely, and you're just, you know, if we, as the months, and in this case years, go by so it grows where he's got to the point where he can't face walking into another M-T-N stall. So I promised at the end of that call that, well, you heard there that I will take it up and I just send an email detailing everything which he did the following day, which was last Friday and he summarized the saga. I think the first clue that the telecoms giant really didn't want to see him go is that when

4:15he first indicated that he wanted to cancel the contract, he's not funny, but you've got to laugh. He was referred to the retention department. In other words, the department by its very name tasked with retaining or keeping. Why do you want to leave? Can we rather offer you something else? Well, yeah, in his case, he wasn't even offered anything else. His request to cancel or close as he put it, same thing, which just went, was just ignored. As of other time Bruce called us last week, he owed us, he not us, thankfully he owed, or called it into any owed 6,080 fabricant on that account, which you heard him say there he hadn't used for years. He'd been sent to final demand, ironically the later said at least you pay us the 6,000 odd. We're going to cancel your account and I thought, well, I'll do you, but the problem is they were also threatening cheese too many.

5:15The problem is that of course that would have been the end of it. They were threatening blacklisting on the screen of the account, on the screen of the record. Nobody wants that, right? Because it has other ramifications on your lap, you can't get any credit of any other forms. So he ended his email to me saying, I've basically given up, but the statement grows mostly, which is what he shared on air. And he included as an attachment all the correspondence, the whole trail showing his many attempts to close their account, the contract information and also saw that final demand later. And so this was clearly not a man who phoned once or twice and gave up. He went at it repeatedly. He said two years, but when I looked at the summary, actually by the time he sent that formal, by the time he put it in an email, he'd been trying via the branch and maybe called as well for a whole year. So it's more like three years.

6:18And so on the 8th of September 2024, as I say, empty and confirmed him in writing, that his request had been escalated to the retention department. It should have been the end of it. Once you say in writing, I want this to be cancelled. They must cancel it. He was out of contract. It was months, two months. You can start seeing the hurdles that were put in place. Anyway, nothing changed after that. But following year June 2025, he wrote to them to say he'd tried to cancel this account numerous times. By August, now this month, he was writing again, reminding them that they had previously confirmed that the account was cancelled, yet to use the data for years. Invoices were still having. So he asked for five things, written confirmation of the cancellation of the account, the effective date of the cancellation, a full audit of everything built after his original cancellation request and any refunds. He had got his bank to stop it, but there obviously had been some debates.

7:20And confirmation that all invoices and any collection activity and with collection activity comes black listing, of course, would stop. He got an author to five, just that final notice and that threat to blackliston. So I said the query to MTN on Friday afternoon, asking the obvious questions, sitting at all out and saying, why have Bruce's cancellation request been ignored for so long? I said this is one of the more extreme cases that I have come up. Wendy, we lost you for a second. Wendy? All right, let's see how he can get Wendy back. We'll pick it up exactly. They wish was giving the feedback and relaying part of the story, 16 minutes after two o'clock. Unleash your extraordinary with the all new Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 8 256 gig yours from Voguecom. For just 1599 Rand per month over 36 months on our new five gig Redcore unlimited plan

8:25with unlimited minutes. Enhance your deal, add 149 Rand extra per month and get the Samsung Galaxy Watch 9 East in available in store and online. Tizen sees apply further together. Voguecom. Every day, someone makes a choice. A choice about how to support their employees, how to strengthen financial wellbeing, and how to help people plan for their financial future. Those choices may seem small in the moment, but over time, they can help shape stronger futures greater financial. 7.02. No, no, no. 19 minutes after two o'clock and we are continuing and I'll consume my feature with Wendy No longer case that she has taken up with caller Bruce with regards to a situation with MTN of trying to cancel a contact and a contract and then the process of being handed over and Wendy Noller took up the case. Unfortunately, we did get cut off as Wendy was giving us some feedback. 1.008.302. The WhatsApp line 07.002.

9:271.007.002. So Wendy, we pick up from where we left off. Yeah, so sorry about that. I sent a query to MTN on Friday afternoon, asking a lot of questions including why did Bruce's cancellation, you know, why would they ignore it for so long and was he doing something wrong? Was he missing a trick on how are you supposed to cancel? So it took MTN two working days to get back to me. Their response came back on Tuesday afternoon. So contrast that with the two to three years that Bruce had been trying and getting nowhere to business days to act on the cancellation of Bruce's contract after I've sent it to them. And this is not to glorify myself at all but to point out the problem. People like Bruce, the actual customers should not have to resort to media or legal intervention to escape the contractual clutches of a company. It's totally unconscionable to use consumer protection act to word.

10:28It shouldn't happen. But here is what MTN said. Our investigation confirmed that Mr. Tovey submitted a valid cancellation request. Didn't say when. A processing anomaly. I'm going to say that again. A processing anomaly affected the handling of the request, which suggests there was only one and we know there were many, many, many of them. Resulting in the cancellation not being completed as intended at the account remaining active when it should have been cancelled. We recognize that this caused considerable frustration and inconvenience for him. And we sincerely apologise for the experience. Following a detailed review, we have now processed the cancellation, applied the necessary credits to the account, corrected the outstanding balance. So Bruce has another account, a phone account. So the refund came included to that account, which he was happy with. We've corrected the outstanding balance to zero, so that's 6000 that Rand odd has been wiped out.

11:29And we've removed the matter from connection, so there will be no black listing. In respect of this. And then as a goodwill measures it MTN, we have also applied two months, three subscription to his existing MTN line as a demonstration of how sincerely sorry we are for the negative experience. And the necessary remedial actions have been implemented to resolve the matter and address the issue, which was identified during our investigation and which they are not explaining to us other than to call it a processing anomaly. So yeah, credit with you, they once the media people had hold of this issue via 702 and me, they moved very fast to get the fix. So yeah, they confirmed the cancellation request was valid, which means that Bruce was right on and on and every person who told him otherwise or just didn't act on that request or instruction were wrong.

12:30So that's where it ended. We're left with the processing anomaly. Oh, it's pretty meaningless. Yes. It's like saying don't you love it when you're in the airport and your plane's delayed and they announced that it's because of operational reasons, you like well, that tells me not it's just worth. That's all fine, I think. Basically you end the conclusion is you will be working until your last day in this physical form. On the same cases in five years, we'll still have it be having the same conversation. Well, I tend to be working for a lot more than five years. I'm very sorry for the court. Oh, my goodness. Growing when they see my email in the in the inbox, but the point is I mean, I've been saved on air. I don't want anyone to think, oh, isn't she fantastic? I'm not fantastic. I've worked my way into position where I have caught where I've access to decision makers and company, easy access access was which their own customers don't have. And that is the point here.

13:31So I'm not congratulating myself. I'm glad that I could help Bruce and I should probably read out what he shared. With us, which was I received a call promising that the contract is cancelled. This was the student Tuesday afternoon. Yes. And the outstanding debt is removed. That being the case, I'm delighted with the outcome. It's not something I was managing to solve on my own. The fact that they say that imply that I only tried to cancel the contract once, which is not factually correct, is not of relevance to me. He could care. He's just like happy. It's over. But my point is that line there of Bruce, this is not something I was managing to solve on my own. And that is the point that it shouldn't need outside intervention from me, which is free or from a lawyer, which is not free or from a consumer body, an ombudsman, which is also free to get what he was entitled to years ago.

14:35And as I say, I think what finally prompted Bruce to get hold of us and to contemplate legal action was that final letter of demand, saying, you know, we're coming after you for the 6000 round and we're going to blacklist you. Not in those words. It's called an adverse listing on your credit record. But it's just ridiculous to me. How is it possible that processing anomalies, whatever the hell that means, can leave a person for years being charged, being held responsible for the kind that they're not using and have indicated multiple times they don't want? It's, I've been doing this for so long in this problem persist, but it, it, it, right, at least still makes me outraged. I, you know, it's not an everyday, oh, well, this happens kind of thing. It should not happen. And it's not just telecoms companies. It's any company that, you know, a self-contracts. It's so easy to take out. You can take them out over the phone. No, just call and it's done.

15:37You're locked in. It should be that easy to get out and in many, many cases, unfortunately, it's not. So what is there? What can be learned from this? If you are Bruce or you, you, you intending to cancel a contract, I would say cancel in writing rather than doing the phone call. If you want to do both, that's great. Especially if you can, you know, if you've got an app on your phone where you can record your own call. So you've got your own proofs, make the call and then the same time follow it up with an email saying, further to my call of 10 o'clock today or whatever. I'm canceling contract with this number, blah, blah, blah, blah, and get a reference number right on the date. No two, you spoke to, don't accept, we have sent two attentions as, you know, a response that doesn't help you at all. And just a point on cancellation, obviously Bruce's contract was old and it had gone from a fixed term to a month, two months, long ago.

16:39And so all he needed to do was theoretically, all he needed to do was give a month's notice of cancellation and that was that. But if you try and cancel while you still in the fixed period of 24 months or 36 months, know that you're going to be charged an early cancellation penalty and the actors allow for that. But you know, if your contract is long out of that period, then then legally you just need to give them 30 days notice. So you'll be charged, you know, one more month, the notice period and then after that it should be over and done with. But yeah, and then there's also you could go to the super goods and services on board or somebody like me. But you know, start acting soon, don't let it roll over years and years before taking it the next step. If the company will help you, you know, get outside help and it doesn't have to cost your scent. And can we also just share with us when the in terms of what did Bruce do right in getting

17:44help from you? Because I want to remind all of the listeners for when we do take on their cases, what it is that makes it easy for you to solve. Okay. So he sent me an attachment which he sent to him to try and get this done himself, which listed all his interactions. So I tried this on a phone and this on this day, the document is all beautifully. So it's documentation, which is brilliant. If you have any, you know, any emails, I mean, there was an email, or am I getting in, I think I'm sorry, I think I'm thinking of another case end of this morning. But any email trails with the company consumed, like it was helpful to see an email with a data and at least saying we send it to our attention department because then I can see, okay, well, that should have stopped a month after that. You know, it's not, you send it to him to him, you shouldn't have to wait for them to say,

18:47yes, okay, it is done. It is all right, you can solve. You don't need to need permission. They just must act on it. And a lot of people on this show have to say, for whatever reason, maybe just life happens, but you'll hear me say, please follow that up with an email and I'll say only about one out of three do it for whatever reason. Maybe it's just too much of an effort or whatever, but I do need that email and I do act on as many of them as I can, as I possibly can. And if it's a somewhat very complicated issues, insurance issues or cars that go wrong, but these people have a legitimate right to cancel their contract and it's just not happening. Months and months or years later, that's low hanging fruit for me. That is a really easy fix for me. So if you're sitting in that situation, if you're having a bruise situation, experience, send me the email, give me their card numbers, give me the dates, give me as much evidence

19:51as you can. And one email, please do not forward me 14 emails as so many people do. From pilot, nicely for me, I don't have any admin help. I have to do that myself. If somebody doesn't put it in an ask one email package for me. And as I say, it's all I did in this case was summarize bruises situation, send it to one person at the end, give them a deadline and it was fixed. So if you're in that situation, please do take me up on my offer and I will do my very best to help. Thank you so much, Wendy Nola. When we do come back from the news, the lines will be open for all of your consumerist issues. I see you, Lerato and DK. I see your messages coming through also on the WhatsApp line, ODABEL1, 003702, the WhatsApp line, 07212, 7021, 702. Your voice, your life, your afternoon radio, 0702, 0702, with at a level Hilema Bouta.

20:5521 minutes to three o'clock and we continue our consumer rights feature. Nola knows with Wendy Nola and we are going to be opening the lines shortly on ODABEL1, 003702, the WhatsApp line, 0721702. So Wendy, you had something to share with us before we open up the lines. Yes, during the break, I was checking my emails as one does and there's an email here from Harold who says, Wendy, perhaps you should open a centre which I'd be glad to manage. Whereby any consumer who cancels any contract copies your centre so companies can see if they fail, your company will immediately know that they failed. I'm so cheesed off over this matter. Ironically, I was one of the architects of the early days of the retention centres. Oh wow! Oh my gosh! Well, I mean, I'm not in the business of creating companies but I certainly, I have no objection if someone, not the first time but if you've tried to cancel then nothing's happened.

21:59The second time you very well come to openly copy me on that email, consumeratnola.co.z and that sometimes does help to galvanise people to move beyond their, what was that wording, what was the reason for the problem? It was a processing anomaly. That sometimes avoids these processing anomalies when I'm copied and on request like that. So people are welcome to do that and thank you for your very kind email, Harold. Appreciate it. Thank you so much, Harold. I know people want to find ways to commercialise India a bit more so she can build capacity but ethics are a real thing in the space that she works. So we go to the lines holding patiently, Lerato from Centre and Go ahead Lerato. Hi guys, so I have an issue. On Sunday I flew, I was supposed to fly down to Cape Town, I flew.

23:01However, we took off at 10 and we took off at quarter to five. In between that, no communication, the ground crew totally gist-lited us. And then when we eventually flew, there was also an small, another technical glitch and eventually we got to Cape Town at like half past six. But then I had missed meetings because it was a work meeting and I emailed the airline in question specifically to request because they gave us a voucher which had to hand them for the food voucher which is like better than 120 rounds. And my issue was you can't really buy anything for that amount at the airport. So I had asked that they reimburse me for the difference because in essence, I had to subsidize them for H.R.D. Langley. And another thing that I had asked for was that I'm aware of the policies in terms of

24:02the airline and the ticket thing. However, surely there should be some partial refund or some voucher that one has to be given for number one, the delay. I mean, I said when I would delay to Cape Town, it's just non-sensical. And I complain and I complain and I'm getting this gist-lited marketing responses way. Oh, you know, these things happen and basically I must get over it. And I really feel I can't let it go. From a principle perspective, I just can't get it go. Hey, Lirata, I can feel the pain. I can feel that pain now. Because I'm that also that person. It's that principle that matters. What do we do in situations like this? Because I mean, we've dealt with airlines 10 million times personally and on A. What can we get out of this? So certainly there were, it's like that you had to buy food in the airport was totally

25:03out of your control. It was as a direct result of the delaying of the flat. These things do happen in aviation. I was just watching yesterday, the day before these people stranded in Heathrow for some reason or other. But I would say certainly if you've if you still got the receipts from food and drink that you ordered in the airport, Lirata. Thank you. Yes, I even said I'm got a copy of the receipt because I really feel strongly. So I took a voucher, a couple of the voucher and a couple of the receipts. Okay. And what was the difference between what they gave you as a voucher and what you ended up spending? Well, you're going to laugh, but it's 115 brands, but it's a principle. It's growing. Even if it was 10, I was going to say this whole March. So, I was, at least you were buying tequila shooters. I think they should, I think they should read it.

26:06Be sure to read about it. Absolutely. No, but Wendy, it was just quick question. Even if she was buying tequila shooters, I would still say they must pay. I'm stressed. I needed that drink. No, that's going to be really hard to find. That's going to be looked at as enrichment. But I would say it's seven hours. They should adjust the voucher accordingly. So absolutely, Lirata, please just forward me what you sent to the airline and let me have a go attacking them on that because it's seven hour delay is really excessive. And I would ask questions around do you tailor the compensation to them to the number of hours because if you don't, you should. That person wasn't planning to have to subsist in an airport environment for that long and had to eat and drink. So absolutely. Send me that and hopefully we can come back to that next week's show because I know it's

27:07a very popular topic. Yes, all right, stay on the line. Lirata, so you can get all of those details. Let's go to DK from job. Thank you for being patient. DK, go ahead. Hello, man. Yes, go ahead, DK. Yes. I'm in life. Yes. Hi, DK. Are you OK, DK? Yes. OK. You are live. You may go ahead, DK. OK. The first point is that I've been trying to email. I once email it at TV and the 7.0.2 as well. So it's more than eight months now. I haven't yet anything. So my point is that my point is that I had problem with two banks. Now the first bank one I had three accounts with fit. The first account was a personal account, the second one, business account, the third

28:10one, investment account. Then I went to apply for a loan. A loan was approved. After the loan was approved, two, three days after that, I received a call from my banker saying that the loan had been reversed. Then I asked the reason why was the loan reversed. They said that I submitted a fraudulent document. Then I said, can you send me a proof of which document which you are declaring that it has been a fraudulent document? Up to now is over two years now. I never received any response from the bank. Now I took the meta to the Ombudsman. As soon as I met the first response which I had, the first day when opening the case with the Ombudsman, the day the who was there because they've told me that I was not mentioning the names.

29:10Yes. So straight away that Mr. DK, you're going to lose the case. As the reason why, he didn't give me any reason. Anyway, I went ahead, opened the case and so on. So as soon as the meta was opened, five minutes later, I received a communication from the bank that all my account has been closed up to now. I took the meta to even to, I sent the email to the CEO. They see or even blocked my access to my email address. So after now, nothing has yet happened from what they told me that I submitted a fraudulent document. All my account was closed. When I tried to verify later on from one of the branches in Centurion, the money which was paid is loan, the money was moved out.

30:15The business account, the money which was in the business account, the money was moved out, the money which was in the investment account, the money was also moved out. So I put all these things including the proof because when I went to Centurion branch, they gave me even the proof when the money was moved and so on and so on. I submitted this portion of that to Ombudsman, nothing happened. I wanted to see the signal of Ombudsman, nothing happened up to today. So Wendy maybe jump in here just for the interest of time. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify DK, are you saying I could get them can sing the loan and take the money back now, you're not responsible for repayments, but you had money in your investment account and your business account presumably in your personal accounts as well. Did they just confiscate your money or did they put it somewhere else?

31:17Did you lose the money? Is that what you're saying? No, especially for this loan money which I applied, the money was paid but was not yet used. I understand. I'm asking you, if they moved your investment account and your business account, what happened to your fund? Are you relating their stole your money or? No, the loan account is not even the loan money was not that what it was reversed. Sorry, DK, the question she's asking is, are you saying money was stolen from your account and if that is the case, which account was it stolen from? All the account, business account. Okay, so as in your money, not their money that they were loaning to you that then they took back, you're saying your money, your own money that you put into the bank is what was stolen. Yeah, my business account money was stolen, the investment that I put in. Okay, so what is the total, what is the total of the money that was stolen?

32:21Okay, this is what I was trying to explain. DK, DK, we are live on A and and and we have a queue of people that obviously also would like to come in. So the reason I'm getting to the point is because we just need to know the fact so when he can help you, what is the figure? The figure was 3000, 300,000 for the loan. The investment was about. Sorry, of stolen money, of stolen money. Including the money, including the loan man because it was still in account. Wait, but DK, I want us to be clear, when you say the loan money, we're going to assume that that's the money the bank loaned you and they retracted it. Yes, but when they said they retracted the money was reversed. It was not reversed. The money was part of the money which was stolen because two months after that, I started receiving calls from the loan department saying that. Okay, that's different.

33:21Yeah, okay, that is different. Okay, so they still hold it. You won't be possible for paying it back. The loan department, isn't yet received that money. So the all money was stolen, including the loan money account was together which was talking about the loan department. They started calling me after two months that I'm owing them. I said, no, my bank had told me that there was a reverse. And that's the one that said that we don't have that information. So it's sounding like a fraud case, Wendy. Or something unusual. It's not this is not a run of the mill bank related complaint. So I'm going to have to engage with DK of air. If you happen to already, please email that to me again and we can start engaging with and I can get a better idea of what happened and where I can go to get answers. Please DK because yeah, it sounds complicated. I can't really advise on this point.

34:23And then to say let me try and help you. All right, thank you so much. DK please stay on the line and I'll produce a we'll share the details with you Graham in Johannesburg. Go ahead Graham. I'll be with you later. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. I wonder if Wendy can help me please. Are you into the vehicles? Okay, great. Are you into the vehicle from a car rental company in Santon in July? And now I've been struggling for some time now to get my deposit back. They claim they claim to have paid it back. But as as an we'll check my credit card statements as the money hasn't been paid back. Am I allowed to mention the car rental company by name? No, I don't think it will help the generalistanship to know. But this is a complaint that I get quite frequently a whole range of car rental companies. Can you tell me how long it's you said July, you're in September now.

35:23So that's an issue, especially if they're claiming that they have paid you and you have it. Are they blaming the bank? How are they explaining that to you Graham? Well, they just say they just saying that the money has been paid back in a WhatsApp. In a WhatsApp message, you know, because they've been communicating with an agent or some person on WhatsApp. And this is a feedback that I'm getting. No, for something that is what was the amount, may I ask? 14 and a half. Yeah. Not a lot of money. I hit my teeth and do this one Graham. So please send me an email. I think it's a good one to cover on air because they use the story of we didn't actually take the money out of your account. We just put a hold. We just ring fence the money and the bank has to release the hold or did they actually take 14. No, they said that they said that the bank would have to release it because the bank has got a hold on it.

36:23Okay, so they've been blaming the bank after two months. Exactly, but they've actually said to me in a WhatsApp that the money has been paid back but it hasn't been, I haven't just keep the money back. And they've not attempted to send you any documentary proof of that presumably. No, not whatsoever. Okay, now I like this one. If you could please be what the, in the group of one out of three who actually does email me. Yes, because I like this issue because it affects a lot of people and I think airing it and the response. And this the general principles around this deposit that we have to pay when you rent a car is a very good one to ventilate. So that everyone can benefit from the information. So please do that for us Graham. Please stay on the line Graham. There's a WhatsApp here which says, Libri and Wendy, if these cancellation issues are so widespread, should these companies not be sanctioned somehow so that they take the seriously? That is a question from CD.

37:24Yeah, absolutely. I mean, excuse me, the National Consumer Commission has taken up cases of this nature involving the self-in-company's policies in the past. And so there's no reason why they shouldn't maybe that's something I should suggest by the media liaison persons to say if I'm getting this volume, I'm sure you are as well. And what does the Commission intend to do about it if anything? So that's a very good follow up suggestion there. Thank you ever sent that WhatsApp. Thank you so, so much. All right, let me see who's been holding the longest Leslie in Florida. Go ahead Leslie. Good afternoon. I have a problem with medical aid and they authorized it on the 13th of April. The procedure was done for a block on the 14th. I'm being known to meet three weeks later, the reject of the claim.

38:28It's also 1000. It's still hasn't been paid. I've already applied escalated three times to the escalation department. Now reply from the medical aid. I've sent Wendy an email with a link with all the complaints. Okay, if I if I do it in box search for the four Leslie Ellie is Ellie what are you talking about? Yeah, I'm the lady. I'm worried because I might need another backup. And these people won't pay for any of the MRI. And do we go? I don't see that email on top of the non replies you got from your medical aid. We don't have a contractual relationship, but I do try to help as many people as possible. So I'm going to search for your email. Did you include your medical aid number? Yes, yes. Okay, then what should the.

39:29The doctor's reapplied for another authorization number. Yeah. And now they want to charge me. Be looking for late authorization. What? Have you got any of your. Oh my gosh. Leslie have you got proof of the original 13th of April? I remember that day because my birthday. Have you got the original proof of that 13th of April? I got it. I think you are the first authorization. And the second authorization number. Thank you very much. Leslie just down the line. I want to make sure Pashida gets your email address just to make Wendy's a life. A lot easier. Wendy you've got so much homework from today. And Graham and I've got to leave this for sure. We've got our airport 110. And okay. Plus we've got the other case. So let's see what we are able to get to by next week.

40:29Yes, apologies Andrew and target. So we didn't get time to take your calls. What we will do is if it's super urgent stand the line, our producer will chat to you and take your details.