Jonah Sigel: Deep dive into the ever-changing sports media landscape.

0:00the Jonas Siegel is a columnist with the Toronto star is the host of believe in the press row podcast he keeps a very keen eye on the Canadian sports media landscape and he joins us Not normally a Seattle guy, but we find him in Toronto. How are you? How you doing? I'm paying the price for landing at Pearson. I was you registered there paying the price. Yeah I'm paying the price for landing at Pearson during Toronto's best attempt to be the wizard of laws with whatever we had yesterday. I'm doing great. Happy to see you guys both Yeah, happy to see you. Yeah, if you missed that yesterday There's like water up to card doors in downtown Toronto last night Okay, plenty going on on the Canadian sports media landscape. Jonah We're gonna get into the big stories and we're gonna get into the big national stories with Friedman and BX In a second, but first I know you're also keeping an eye on an ear on everything here in Vancouver and the broadcast stuff Games moving to kiss FM and you were the guy a couple of weeks back who said hey, don't think Rogers hasn't considered bringing back sports stock radio despite

1:10Knicksing it in July. What's the latest you're hearing on all that? All I said Rogers right now is gonna upset your Vancouver sports fans I think all lies right now on Rogers on the amalgamation of maybe leave sports entertainment the blue jays one that deal finally closes that they take full ownership So when you talk to Rogers people right now, especially the release the sports media and content They're really trying to figure out what does this new world order look like when that closes You know who's doing what who owns what and I think even to the extent of Who's in charge? I mean ultimately we know who's in charge at the very top But there's now going to be a new entity they have the J's the Raptors the Leafs Add in the blue J's add in sports net that is a big beast And growing more important each and every day so to me the question really is What does that look like and from all eyes and ears right now? That's what they're focused on so I don't think anyone is sitting there going Wouldn't it be great if we had an all sports radio station back in Vancouver? But I think as they start thinking about content and ways to engage with consumers

2:15Audio content is still prevalent and still dominant and still really important and I think you know We're very fixated on the term radio and terrestrial radio you know Podcasts and audio streaming and engaging with with content remains really important So what that looks like is pretty interesting fair enough just on the specific terrestrial radio question like You texted me after 650 went down and said this is a crazy that Vancouver doesn't have sports talk radio You believe Canadian you believe sports talk radio terrestrial sports talk radio could work in Vancouver Yeah, you've got like what's the population there roughly? I mean you guys know better than me you've got sports fans You know, I understand with all due respect to the CFL and to sub-tamagerly soccer there is a dip after the connox But you've got engaged people who spend money and talk sports and you do have the connox right there Maybe one day the crack and I'll have a pulse and there's actually a team to compete with at the top as opposed to racing to the bottom

3:20But you know that's there the sea hawks are are you know miles away and not thousands But you know they're not that far away and there's daily topics and and until the you know until vank until or if vank Hoover gets baseball or basketball back, you know, they're fans there of the Toronto teams So I think there's a lot of a lot of reach and a lot of depth you guys are doing great work And and I believe there's absolutely a hunger from our audio content I like terrestrial radio because again, I think people still do listen in on their cars They are going back to work. Thank God They are you know they're a dinner. They're coming home. They want to listen to the last couple Whether it's pitches last couple, you know plays the game You know that's when they're listening to get into the car in the morning They go somewhere that that stations back on Again, I don't know what the future medium is gonna look like and how how quickly we're gonna get there But they proclaimed newspapers dead a long time ago and Matt you and I met when you were writing for one

4:21They are still around they aren't what they used to be but they are still around Yeah, don't you think though and look I 30 plus years in radio At heart I still consider myself a radio guy people ask me what I do for a living and I have to stop myself And I'm not in radio anymore. We've moved into the digital frontier But in a market like Vancouver I always felt like part of the problem was you know, it's the connox and then as you point out You know engaging on the lions or the white caps for more than 10 minutes at a time Every conversation comes back to the Vancouver connox even the middle of July and August and Then you find that you know a station of Vancouver fills out its programming hours with A reporter in Cleveland talking about the Browns training camp Where if I really want to know about the Cleveland Browns There are a hundred podcasts out there with guys on the ground that are better informed and probably can produce a better product On the Cleveland Browns then a guy sitting in the studio in Vancouver

5:25Isn't that part of the problem in a market Where in like this one that it's hockey and Only hockey and then guys dabble into other topics that I just think now can be served in so many other different ways Great question. I'm gonna answer two different ways I went to law school in Miami like right downtown Miami The heat were there the marlins were there at a time the marlins were good the Was his name L. Duke a days when they actually one of World Series the Panthers were there back in in the rat throwing Miami arena days When you listen to Hank Goldberg and Jim Mandage and anybody else was on WQAM I think there's actually two or three other radio stations doing nothing but sports when I was there All they talked about what are Miami dolphins and it could be June 1st And you are hearing about the potential for string defensive tackle Who went to UBC right like that that is the nature of the business So I don't think it's unique to smaller cities like Vancouver

6:29Uh, it happens in big markets that have a predominant fan base who are primarily interested in one sport So I think there's that side of it at the same time. I'll tell you that You're not wrong, you know like you could you can turn on Dan Patrick you can turn on um Dan Levitard you there there's lots of lots of national voices out there and you're right Uh, through internet through Sirius there's there are ways to tune in to get the local flavor with the experts There is still absolutely an audience for people that actually have a preference For their person their people who actually look and think like maybe not look who think the way they do And you want their take and I know for example That and we were just talking about them off the air I like a Bob McCowan interview of Call it, you know, Muhammad Ali back when he did those things why because McCowan spoke for me I had a I knew that if Muhammad Ali said X McCowan would dig into X whereas if I'm speaking to somebody locally

7:33I may not get that same flavor and while I may get more depth I want that option to me So when I listen to you guys, you know, yeah, I could listen to somebody else who's doing it You know, whatever But there is something to be said for we all inherit a taste and a like for certain content hosts You know Look at radio stations FM What do they do? They play music. Why do we listen to one versus the other? I mean, there's lots of classic rock stations But if you listen to one, why do you listen? Because in between you like the schick that whoever the broadcaster is you like what they're talking about Everybody does music the same I can listen to Spotify and listen to only my own music But I'll tune in from time to time. Why? Because I have a familiarity. It's comfortable. It's something that I enjoy So I'm not saying you're wrong I just think that I think we do get tripped up a lot on on titles And I always just come back to audio consumption and people want to consume it however they get it I love the streaming side of it because I can listen to you guys when I'm on my walk when I'm at the gym

8:36I don't have to wait and and the best part is if breaking news happens And it's Vancouver you guys are gonna jump on and I know get that local thing right now And I make it a national thing by turning on a station or whatever city I'm in What about the transmission you mentioned FM and I mean we all think of it as a classic rock But canox are gonna be on kiss FM this year You know in this country it sort of seemed oh my goodness hockey on an FM station, but You know, it's not a precedent. It's certainly in the states So we have seen the move to some all sports stations on the FM dial and Even saying the dial like in today's world. It's button pushing any how it's not difficult to find what you're looking for But how big of the illicit push an out kanox hockey on the FM band Well, I'm much of this totally answers your question But there were years ago where the maple leaves move to their games to AM640 and For a while people like where are the leaves again and it took a while and all of a sudden

9:40AM640 suddenly saw had jump in the morning numbers why because the people that have been listening the night before got in the car the next morning Start listening to 640 So I think once people recognize where they are the kanox they'll switch to me. There's a pretty big advantage to being in FM I don't live in your city so I can't answer this question But I would imagine that when you drive under a power line You're not gonna feel like you're getting a shock listening to the game When you're when you're driving around to the different neighborhoods far out of downtown Vancouver you're probably suddenly not gonna hear static you know I can be able to hear the play by play pretty well I won't find my life. I live in suburban Detroit and I can listen to primetime sports on the Windsor station You know and every time my neighbor opened the garage I could you know I could hear static like just the over-dangered wind's voice So I think that there's massive opportunity typically and again I can't speak for this one station typically you get better audio quality and you get better reception no matter where you are Obviously to a certain point. I don't think the average fan really cares

10:43Told you guys I think the last time I was here the time I was driving a Tesla Tesla doesn't even have a radio There is no dial right I don't have one anymore But again, you know you're gonna tune in wherever you get it because you like the way those people call the game So I think unless I'm missing something I don't think there's gonna be any degradation of quality. I think it's gonna be improved I think once you once you treat Train like the dog out of eat where the food is they'll go eat it Yeah, I've told this story before but before I met my croggers and I have a friend who's a sound engineer And as we were setting all this up five years ago to go digital and Go streaming uh, I was picking his brain and he finally stopped me and he said Matt you're coming from AM radio Wherever you go will be better sound quality than what you are currently on uh, Jonah how much do you think the conucks will miss the 12 hour a day daily promotion of terrestrial sports talk radio especially when they're on the front end of a rebuild here

11:44I can't stress it enough like I think you've got hunger and appetite in thirst for content so So Relevant is important we live in a distracted world right like at any point The younger generation somebody said this to me. I was in a meeting the other day that if you ran an ad on tick-tock In a day Any day you're getting a super bowl audience like let me think about that right that's where the eyeballs are So if you're not offering a compelling alternative to feed the earth People will go elsewhere when all of a sudden you can stream a movie the same day that the movie comes out People aren't going to the theaters unless it's a monster hit So if the conucks aren't i'll aren't if Rogers and the conucks are not beating that thirst people will find a destruction to occupy that space Guaranteed and in my opinion If the team is bad and you're trying to buy time you know

12:45Evading the marketplace and giving them a reason to go elsewhere probably isn't your smartest move It with regards to Rogers potentially wanting to kick a sports talk back up here in Vancouver And you and I have talked about this offline There was three prevailing theories number one that the conucks leaned on them and said oh my god like what's going on? We're losing all this promotion number two They tried to turn 650 into an FM the CRTC denied and would this be an end around to Eventually turn kiss into a An FM or number three. They're just posturing. They're just trying to chill other radio operators from Coming into Vancouver and opening a sports talk terrestrial format Which of the theories makes most sense to you? Well, I don't think it's the last one. I mean, I can't see anybody shivering in a corner in Rogers going Oh my god somebody else is going to take over sports talk radio in Vancouver with all due respect right like I just don't see that happening

13:47I again, I think we live in a very Evolving world and it's very different than than other times where You know it used to be print and then there was radio and then there was television You know, it's not been that long since the iPod came out and we started being able to listen to content on demand without even owning it I think you see it and I'm writing a story for the star about this man. I can't say too much yet But the technological advances right now are so fast like I flew across country yesterday was starling by my airplane It was better than my home Wi-Fi right? So that that technological change and what's going to happen to our cell phones in the next three five seven years and who were paying To receive connectivity is evolving and who owns the content is going to become more and more important And I think that's what's what's lying underneath a lot of these moves, you know all of a sudden Why would you spend 12 plus billion dollars on NHL rights? Why are you spending another?

14:52What was it for five billion dollars to own all of the leaps raptors blue jays you're buying content Why because all of a sudden who owns the pipe and what the pipe looks like is changing? So you've got a hungry audience for hockey content sports content Somebody needs to own that that's more important and then in my mind right now than the how or the where it's the what and I think that I think if anyone at Rogers or anywhere else is thinking about Vancouver. It's how do we optimize on those eyeballs? Here Jonah, I Are you in Toronto to get to the bottom of this Elliott Friedman Kevin B. Exa Rogers crack the case here I mean a high stakes game of poker here because the hockey season is upon us How surprised are you that it's reached the point that these guys are both unrestricted free agents I'm not totally surprised and I'm not totally surprised and for those of you was saying they put one on my Tweets up. I'll tell you that

15:54I'm not totally surprised because again, they just spent a whack of dough on the content So is it surprising to me that they're minding pennies on content on talent? I should say no Like they've been doing that for a very long time. It's given my website lots of life right like gives us lots to talk about because there's changes all the time And what's typically behind those changes money? So My understanding is that certain people have agreed to contracts and either a cut rate or the same rate and a couple others have not and that's where we sit and I think I think at the end of the day Elliott's coming back to Rogers. We can't call a hockey night anymore. I think that's Pretty much a fed a complete Kevin's in a different world right? Like he had a successful career If he feels that he's being undervalued or unappreciated You know, whatever they're offering probably for the average fan is a lot of money considering the amount of effort

16:56He has to put into do it But he has a value that he's put on his time in himself and if he doesn't review that then he can go do other things He can spend time with kids with with family. What have you and that all makes sense to me But ultimately, you know that show has been in rapid decline for years and those two guys at least provide quality content And if you give that up you're going to start alienating sense. So I'm not totally surprised Where would they go like somebody said to me Amazon, but I'm sitting there going Amazon is a subcontractor of Rogers on the Wednesday night hockey games like I I realized they're paying to play and so they're in the game they get to play But you're gonna subcontract the Wednesday games from Rogers and then you're gonna steal their talent I have a little bit of trouble believing that but you tell me I don't believe they're going to Amazon. I'll say that flooded. I don't believe they're going to Amazon But Amazon is is a really compelling story because just because you only have games in Canada One night a week

17:56Does not mean that you can't create content put it out there right? So they just did a deal with six NHL teams So now you've got you know, you've got local content you've got national content here at the same time the US deal is coming out You know, there's nothing really preventing them from creating a midweek show you know that has Talent on there growing their audience growing their game just because you have there are other ways to generate audience and build a brand Other than just streaming live events. So I think there's lots of opportunity there But I don't but I can't speak to Kevin. I don't believe Elliot's going to Amazon. I've not heard and originally I heard there were discussions there What I've heard most recently is he's not Um as early as or as late as this morning. I was told that Um Kevin. I that's the problem the problem is in this country if you want to be in hockey. There's one place to go You know TSN does a regional version, but they I think they're pretty full with their their lineup

18:57You go to one of the other US networks. I guess but right now they're full as well Lastly, we've already begun We're going to see some of the bleed from 650 shutting down land and for our off to Winnipeg to call Jets games regionally on TSN uh First of all, I'm glad for landed, but secondly, I think he's pretty darn good chip off the old block I think this inspired decision from TSN and the Winnipeg's folks to get him a permanent share let him go out games night after night I think it's a smart hire and You know, I'm gonna these guys need to get reps right like they need to work more to improve and I think that's what's happened He's done two years in Vancouver now. He's gonna do some time in Winnipeg You know he's getting more distribution. He's gonna be on the air more That's a good thing. I know I know there's all this talk about nepotism out there and like whatever If that's how we got the gig or that's how we got him in the front door At the end of the day you got a producer you have to do good work

19:59And they're not gonna put someone who's awful on the air simply because who his parents are The end right like the consumer will tell us that he's awful right and and The the real reason the real answer is he's done good work so far You know, he's gonna polish and continue to improve and he's moving into a you know a more prominent stage if you will And I think that's a good thing and I I'd be mone this all the time that if something happens at Chris Chris to try that again Chris Cuthbert or Craig Simpson who do the the leaf game right now where is the next talent for Rogers and hockey It's barren so if we don't continue to develop talent to get them on the big stage Where are they gonna come from and people are you know people can't believe that amazon puts john forceland on to can at a hockey game To all who else are you gonna put on that like you do want the best and we have to find a way to develop the best here Well Interesting times in Canadian sports media jona. Thank you for the time here today

21:01Calling this with the Toronto star believe in the press row podcast. Thank you sir As always