Inside The Data: NFL Combine Athletic Testing Reveals PLENTY Of Ideal OTs For Eagles

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2:04Your dedicated expert checks every single deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And the best part? You'll see real-time updates on your expert's progress right on your phone while you live your life. Plus, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full service experts, real-time updates only on iOS Mobile app. Oh, welcome back to Inside the Data on Inside The Birds. I'm Jeff Mosher with Sam Finkel, our analytics expert. It's been quite a little bit since we've had you on Sam. A lot has happened, a lot might be happening more. The next few days is free agency is about to kick out, but in the new league year is about to get started. But one of the things that we like to do around this time

3:04of the year is review the combine, specifically the testing. We know how big the egos are on athletic testing. We know the egos have some holes to fill, regardless of what they do in free agency. And it's really important that they build their team to the draft to them, that's how they believe. And so we're going to take a look at a couple of different positions over the next, I don't know, however long. But we'll start off with offensive line because that was such a sore spot for the egos last year. Now, they'll probably barring anything unforeseen, have the same starting five as they did last year. But they also know that they can't bank on the health of center left garden. Of course, the right tackle could be the last year for him. So with that being said, you put together a testing chart of how the offensive lineman did in the at the combine, and we'll pay attention to that, and we'll put it all in perspective. What did you overall find when you were doing this compilation

4:05of athletic testing about this year's crop of tackles? Well, offensive lineman, we're really focused on tackles here, but in general. Yeah, I felt like there's some pretty athletic offensive lineman overall in this class. It feels pretty top heavy in the sense that I think there's probably 10, you can call them quality starters on offensive line in this draft that I feel pretty confident in. What that actually constitutes, like I'm not necessarily saying they're going to be probals or all probe, but they're like plus starters that you can find in this draft at the top, and they're pretty athletic overall. Yeah, I think what's interesting is that the egos have always believed in athleticism at all positions. But on the offensive line, they've also succeeded either in draft or free agency with some offensive lineman who may not are more road graders than great athletes. I think McIbeck was an example of two years ago. He wasn't necessarily great with his footwork, and that's the greatest in past throw,

5:07but he was a mall or a road grader. They were the ones that Jeff Stoutlin was the one that felt he could play guard, and he moved there, and he did a great job, and say one had an unbelievable year. But we know two things. One, Jeff Stoutlin's gone. Two, the egos are about to change their style of blocking. And it's going to favor lineman who move well athletically horizontally, in many cases, and less north-south type blockers. So being a big mall or land in Dickerson may not be as important to them going forward, as someone who tests athletically. And if you look at the egos offensive line now, you have a mixture of both. I mean, Lane Johnson and Jordan Milotta are really good. I think they all tested well athletically, and they're also road graders. We know Cam Jurgens at one spot there, center, right? We know that he's there because he's a great athlete,

6:08more so than a road grader. But at your guard spots with Lane and Dickerson and Steen, I don't remember what Steen's athletic testing was. You probably might have it. But I feel like those guys were more about being, because Steen was a former tackle, more about being just like good athletes, but also like strong point of attack type players, that the whole idea of point of attack now could be a little bit different, because when you're moving left and right, it's not about the point of attack. Steen actually did pretty well in athletic testing. He didn't do the 40, he didn't do the three cone, but his vertical jump was 29.5, his broad jump was 9.1, and his 20 yard shuttle was 459, and his bench press was 31 reps. Right, interesting that he did do a short shuttle, because that's kind of important for alignment and testing. Of course. Okay. So again, I don't think that's gonna represent a huge change for the Eagles, because they already look for good athleticism

7:11in offensive linemen and in general, but in their procurement of players, but there might be a slight change, especially on the interior offensive line in what they're looking for athletically and the strengths of what players coming out of college are compared to what they might have used to look for. Yeah, and the combine is just one of the tools that Eagles and the other teams use. I mean, what you see on film is what is really guiding this, and then the combine is a good tool to check that. It's a confirmation of what I see with my eyes actually makes sense. It's another way that data is being interpreted to help build what you believe this profile is, what the profile could be in the future. Right, now we always talk about, don't be fooled by athletic testing. It's not a be all to end all. It helps, there are some forecasting, you can make if someone tests well athletically, but it doesn't also mean that they're gonna be a great player. But with offensive linemen in particular,

8:13I would like you to tell the audience what athletic testing drills you believe or what we know are the most important ones. For example, I'll just throw this right out of the way. 40 yard dash is nice, but it's not, who cares if your offensive tackle doesn't run a fast 40, right? Yeah, I agree with that. I think anything that really shows explosion for an offensive linemen, actually the bench does a pretty good job of that. It's not the best, but it's a way of metric of explosion. Sure. I think that the three cone is pretty good, especially for interior offensive line. Right. I also really like the vertical jump, because I think that's a really good metric for explosion. But those are the main ones that I kind of key out to me, and you can kind of tell a lot of the time, and it's interesting I said the bench, because most of the offensive linemen actually do, are the ones that seem to actually matter. So what you'll see on these charts that I prepared is a lot of offensive linemen skipped some of these drills, or just refused to test or were injured.

9:15There were a bunch of different reasons why they opted out of these certain drills. So you can kind of see, sometimes the agents will dictate, they'll be like, you shouldn't do this drill because you're not as good at it, or you don't need to, you already have proved that. There's a bunch of different reasons, but really anything that shows explosion to me is the most important things for offensive linemen. Yes, I agree. You mentioned the vertical jump. I actually think for offensive linemen, broad jump is even better or just the same, because of the lower body explosion element to launch yourself that far. 20 yard short shuttle is a measurement of agility, lateral movement, that change of direction, which again, you've said, well, how many offensive linemen changed direction? But when you think about, as you said, offensive linemen on the inside, like angle blocking, one of the things that pre-back injury that Kim Durgan's really good at kicking out into the second level, and then pivoting to get that linebacker who's coming down and making sure you can block him.

10:15So those are kind of things that you're looking for out of that 20 yard short shuttle. 10 yard split also, I think. It's part of the 40 yard dash. It's your first, it's just, it's a good get off. Like how fast can these guys get, especially if you're running screens, or you are running a Shanahan slash mid-phase, slash Kubiak style of run game, where somebody's gonna get kicked out and you wanna get them fast off the line of scrimmage. So those are the ones we'll pay attention to here among the others, right? In your athletic testing as we figure out and start with offensive tackles, which ones would make a lot of sense? Because I think when we talk about offensive tackle here, what we're really talking about is the Eagles potentially finding a replacement for Lane Johnson, correct, in the draft. Somebody who may not play this year, but we'll be ready to step in in 2027 and be a right tackle. Yeah. 100%. All right, cool. So let's go, and by the way, I believe you said this and I'm gonna echo the sentence.

11:17Pretty good draft for offensive lineman. Yeah, I feel pretty good about this draft for O-line. Awesome. So here we go with, I'm gonna try to shrink it to the screen for those watching to have all the offensive tackles. See, when I do it this way, do you think that that's big enough or should I just scroll up and down? I can't quite tell sometimes from our feedback. I think it may even be better like seeing it now. If I just share you the Excel version of the sheets version of it. Oh, look at that, all right. And we just go through the sheets version of it. Okay. Because then I can kind of minimize things for us. Sure, look at that. We're gonna flip it on the fly here. No, I mean, while you do that, I will then blow this up for people just to get an idea of the names and the athletes. So you color coded this before we get to your other sheet, explain the color coding of the athletic testing here. Yeah. So the gold color is the best tester. Silver is the second best and the bronze is the third best. Got it. Gold color.

12:17What were you with in Olympic mood? Very Olympic. Yeah. I felt like that was the right time. It certainly was. All right. And then you get the world baseball class that coming up. So that's good too. All right. So now we're looking at tackles here. And we have a different spread sheet up. And we'll go through. There are 24 of them. But let's put start to go through some of them. Why what jumped out using this sheet here in particular? Yeah, just Spencer Fano from Utah. He was athletically one of the best tackles, which is not surprising. He was the first in the 40-yard dash. He was the second in the split, the 10-yard split. First in the three-cone drill, even other that wasn't that many people doing it. First in the shuttle, even though there were only two doing it. And his athleticism score was second. Right. Tides. So I've already actually called around a little bit on Fano Sam. And his athletic testing is fantastic.

13:18And the word I got from him is that he fits his own blocking scheme more than gap or power. So ordinarily, well, yes, he's a great fit for what the Eagles are going to be doing. The funny thing is, when you start to talk about that now, it feels like 75% of the league now is running some variation of a Shanahan McVey or Kubiak style running game. So it's like, yeah, it's a great fit for the Eagles. And it's like having a number one wide receiver at this point. Yeah, it's a great fit for everybody. No, that's a really good point. He definitely stuck out to me. But he wasn't the only one that stuck out to me. I also think the two above him, both Freeling and Max from Arizona State, both stuck out. They had the similar athletic scores. And they also perform pretty well in testing. And then a guy that I also wanted to kind of shout out is Blake Miller from Clemson. Oh, yeah, Clemson.

14:18Yeah. Yeah, go up to him. His athletic score was the highest. And yet, he didn't score very high on all the drills. And that gets us into something that we'd like to talk about once we actually get towards draft content is size is so important in this. And his is benefited a lot by his size, the actual size that I didn't include the measurements in this because I figured it would get kind of convoluted in just talking about it. But he is very much benefited from that. And he did score very well athletically considering his size. Got it. All right, I do want to go back and make one more point on Fano because he is short-armed. And the word I got back from Fano is that he's probably a guard at the NFL level. Sure. Short arms. Yeah. And so then again, again, I'm going to probably sound like a broken record. But a guy who has the athleticism at college to play tackle,

15:19but in the NFL projects at either guard or center reminds me a lot of Isaac Sam Hallou. Sure. And also makes more sense now for the Eagles if they're moving away from road grader to athlete who moves well horizontally. Sam Hallou was a good athlete. He was actually, I mean, if you're good enough to play tackle in college and then play guard and center, yes, you're a good athlete. And they would use him. They trapped a lot more with their lineman back in the day as opposed to the last few years. And Sam Hallou would be a part of that. But Fano, I believe, isn't even better athletic tester than Sam Hallou. And so I think it sounds like to me, like he's a day two guy, like early day two. Fano, I could see him going in the first round. Maybe even the first round. Actually, it could be even first round. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the first round. I know the Penn State, our Penn State friend,

16:19Vega Ionia is from what I've been told, who's not a great athletic tester, by the way, but just an unbelievable lineman and a road grader. He's probably going to go top 12 to 15. Sure. That's how good he is. I think Fano will be probably the second interior offensive lineman to go off the board. And the reason why I said day two, maybe day one, is only because there's a lot of teams that will not take a guard, a short arm guard slash center in the first round, unless it's like a can't miss prospect. The Cowboys were willing to do it. They did it with Booker last year, Trevor Booker. Is that Trevor Booker? I think it was Tyler Booker. Tyler, it might be Tyler, but they have so many Tyler's on them. They're in Tyro line as Tyler. I'm pretty sure they're not really all of them. No, no, I almost seem to be 60% of them, I believe, or Tyler. So my point is that the Cowboys were willing to do it because they specifically run a lot of inside power.

17:24Like that's what they, you saw what they were able to do with Javante Williams, right? They ran the book extraordinarily well. They ran the book inside a lot. And that's what they do. They have big, powerful offensive linemen. They don't run a Shanahan style run game. So that's why it was worth it to them to take a guard that high, knowing that our guy is not a tackle. And so maybe there will be a team like that, but I could see for no dropping only because he's not going to play tackle at the end of the level, most likely. 100% agreed, that's a good point. I also have some context if we want to look at specific drills of how historical tackles have performed. Sure. So nice amount a little bit just to give like a, yeah, yeah. OK, for those who are watching here. So the top five tackles for the 40-yard dash ever are Terran Armstead at a 471, a very familiar name in Lane Johnson at 472, Aviante Collins

18:29at a TCU in 2017 at a 481. Brian O'Neill at a Pittsburgh 482. And then lastly, Tristan Wurfs, who everyone should know at 485. OK. So of those five, one of them is sort of, not unless it irrelevant, but it didn't translate. The third guy you mentioned, Aviante Collins, yeah. OK. But you'll notice the only one of the five that I was like, I don't really remember him that all. Right. You'll notice the trend though, specifically with Lane Johnson and Brian O'Neill. They were not tackles from day one. O'Neill was a tight end at Pitt, I'm not mistaken. And Lane Johnson started his career as a quarterback, then a tight end, then a D-end, and then a tackle. He had an incredible grocery in college. So you can see much like J. Alex Hunt, right, from safety at the end, you can see how someone who was just born with really good athleticism and then just kind of grew

19:31and ate themselves into a different position would still be able to run a really good, and be a great athlete at that position. Yep, 100%. I do wonder if there's anybody on this list here that sort of fits that bill of having started off at a completely different position. And then the athleticism just sort of carried over as they moved to offensive line. I would say that that bill is very rare because, I mean, there's not many people in the NFL that you can name that had that, and especially that have been as extraordinary, especially as Lane Johnson. Yes, so. Yeah, by the way, Toronto Armstead was like a track star also, I believe in high school as well. Certainly translated, for instance. He was actually an undersized lineman when he was playing in college. I think you went to Arkansas like Pine Bluff or something. Yes, you're exactly right. Yeah. And so, and then he just, and he was on the track team there. Yeah.

20:31So that's why you're finding stories of these tackles who started off some of the rare athleticism involved. What do we got? We got a list of 24 people here. I would think that at least 80% of them, were actually offensive lineman from the start, but you never know. Yeah, that's that's very true. And then, no, no, please. As you say, I just, I had higher hopes for Drew Shelton than when he came to Penn State. Wasn't he a five star recruit? I think he was either four or five. I think five, though, sounds like I should really know that. Yeah, I was sure you were there, right? I was there. Yeah, that's okay. But stars never really mattered to us. We were more about like our internal evaluation. It's actually super interesting. I'm sure we could talk about it too. Ad nauseam at a later date, but it was interesting because I went to a high estate would offer somebody. They'd go from a three star to a five star overnight, a lot of the times. And whether that was just because people didn't scalp them properly or just big names,

21:32where there's a whole thing with that. I think they've gotten a lot better, I will say. But yeah, so for the Caden Proctor fans, by the way, because I know a lot of mocked rasts have mocked him, including our own Andrew Chico, to the Eagles in the first round. You'd probably be pretty happy with the combination of size and athletic testing and the fact that he was 25 in the brand's press. So he's second best bench press, so good strength there. What do you make of his other stuff, his split? I mean, he has a relatively high score here at 84. Yeah, I mean, look, I like his vertical jump for his size. I also don't mind the broad jump at all. It's not bad. It's pretty solid actually, especially for his size. But I do still think he's a project. I think there's a little bit of work and development he needs. And I think he would have been a perfect pick under Stoutland. And I'm a little apprehensive without Stoutland.

22:32I mean, we don't know what it's going to be like, to be honest. I don't think you can go wrong by picking him. But I think the expectations are that he needs to sit and develop a little bit first. Which, if you're looking for the Lane Johnson replacement, it's sort of makes sense, right? It's sort of makes sense, yeah. So I think it just depends on how this new offensive coaching staff, how they prioritize development, if they're able to develop talent, even if they can retain 70% of what Stoutland can do, I think that it would be a solid pick. I would agree. And I would say the other two guys, we could just have a quick conversation about who also get mocked to the Eagles. And maybe more fit, you know, what the offense are going to do would be, I like how you said, Max from Arizona, Stinky Max, yeah. You need to even try to say, Ayaan and Angkor, right? Listen, I did practice some of these names, and I'm not confident in that one. That's fair. There was a couple I was just like,

23:33we're going to call him Big Max. Well, Big Max and both him and Monroe Freeling, who also from Georgia, because he's Georgia, of course, he's going to get mocked to the Eagles. I mean, these guys were really good testers, but look at Max. I mean, he's got a gold, a silver, and a bronze there. Yeah. Two silver's. He does benefit from the fact that only four people did the bench, but still pretty incredible numbers considerate still. Right. And I think if he does go to the Eagles, I promise I'll practice the name more, and I'll be confident in the pronunciation. I think it's Ayaan and Angkor. That sounds right. That was the way. When you look at the names on the combine thing, there's usually them doing a drill or them doing an interview, and the people talking about them, that's how they pronounced it. But I'm also, as you can tell, not at home right now. I normally have a note sheet where I write down the phonetic spelling of them, and I don't have that luxury,

24:33because I am in sunny Florida right now. Now, by the way, that kid is a little bit raw. I mean, he's probably got his bet. Some guys come out and they're ready to go. Like Lane Johnson was ready to go, even though he had great years ahead of him too. Sure. Ayaan and Angkor could be the same way. I know he's from Nigeria, and I don't think he moved to the United States until he was a teenager. And he played soccer, of course, being from overseas and everything like that. So kind of like what we were talking about with guys, you start off playing other positions, and then the athleticism translates. Like this kid could be the perfect sit-for-year play if you need to play, or if there's injuries, but then really blossom year two, year three, or four, because he's still moldable. Sure. Yeah. I totally agree with that. The other kid's feeling, no much about him. I got to dig in on him. I know he's George, he played left tackle there. So that's good. What I want to find out is, obviously, the athleticism

25:35looks pretty good here. Is he a left and right tackle, or is he only one side? Well, is he more fit for, you know, the scheme that he goes are going through on or the one they used to run? Do you have a size there? His size, he's 6'7", 3'15". My daughter's would have really enjoyed that one, 6'7". 6 foot, 7 foot. See, wait, you said 6'7", 3'15". Yeah, that's where he listed that. It's kind of slim for 6'7". I know, you're just a little bit... I have his arm measurements and hand measurements if you want those, too. Do it. 34 and 3'4", for arm and 10 and 3'4", for hand. So arm is 34. Is that kind of short for being 6'7? I'm bad at knowing what the arm measurement should be relative to the height, but it does seem like what is average. I know the ideal arm length is 34 inches or more, okay?

26:36And you said he's what? He's 6'7". But no, what's his arm? Oh, his arm is 34 and 3'4". So he's just at what the NFO wants, ideal, but he's taller than your average offensive tackle. I mean, I think most tackles are anywhere from 6'3", 6'6". So he says just a little bit... On the Eagles, he's normal, he fits in, right? But for normal offensive, I'm 100% agree with you. A little bit taller, so that's you. But I think that when you're that tall and you do have at least your attack, or you're not moving anywhere. Yeah. And I think he, looking at what they have for his production score, he's a 72 on production score. And you know, I like those, they're, I think they're fun. I know they're not the end all be all and we'll eventually create those charts again when we get closer to the draft. But his athleticism's 90 and his production's 72 and his total score is 81, which they say is a 6.31 on their scale,

27:37which will eventually be a plus starter. And I agree with that. I do think it's important to know if he's just a left tackle or if he is a little bit more versatile. But I was a big fan of everything I've looked into him so far. And of course, I'll do a deeper dive eventually, but I do really like him. You know what I think, Sam? Just having gone through this year with you between Blake Miller, between Max, Big Max, MarriZone with me, between Freeling and Kaden Proctor. And then there are some other guys who probably didn't test great athletically, but are pretty good. And then there are guys that did test well athletically. You know, like maybe someone like Jude Bowery from BC, right? Right. I think the Eagles are in pretty good shape to draft an offensive tackle, a future one. Who's going to be a starter in this draft? I mean, I think that that we're, it's because if it were, I think, was it last year or were there weren't that many? Yeah. It was a year recently where it was just slim pickings.

28:38But I feel like this is a pretty good, good class for the Eagles. Actually, last year's was pretty good. It was really cool. Well, I kind of think Campbell's warts got really brought to light. He was a player. I don't. He had a tough game, I know, in the Super Bowl. No, he had a tough playoff. We didn't have a tough. It was pretty, maybe it was getting sacked from the start. I mean, particularly badness. I'll be fair. I'll be fair. They faced the chargers, the Texans, the Broncos, and the Seahawks. Those might have been the four best defense. Or I don't want to put it all on the kid's shoulders. I know that they're behind them. They're going to be OK. Yeah, he'll probably be OK, but I, but against the long-armed past rushers, you definitely saw the questions about him come out. Sure. But they all said Membu in that class. I tried to think about Campbell's rules. But he's a right tackle, right? He only plays right tackle. Usually, you want top 15 guys to be able to at least play both. Yeah, that's true. That's true. On the last point, do you have the other name? This is just off my head.

29:39I'm trying to think. You're going right off the top of the game. NFL tackles, $20.5. I know there were one more then. We put a lot of time in it. Yeah. Bear with me a sec. Yeah, I'm looking at it. Oh, Kelvin Banks from the Saints. He actually has a pretty good rookie year. Kelvin Banks from the Saints. And then the commanders took honorily late. So I don't know. 4-0-T's is not like normal. No, these six or seven. There we go. Yeah, we're just doing it. Yeah, we're doing it. But you've got four or five. And then one of them is a right tackle only. Yeah. You're right. That's a good point. Maybe it wasn't as strong as I was remembering. Hey, I know a lot of you out there are just like me. You either travel a lot for work or you got a back to work policy and you're always out of the house. But your family is still home. Well, I feel really secure with my family at home because I've got simply safe home alarm system,

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32:43on the losing side of it. Let me try to guess this because I can't even, I don't even remember at this point who was in the national championship game because you know, it was such a bad year for Penn State. It was Ohio State, right? Nope. No, Ohio State wasn't in. It was, oh, it was Indiana. Of course, Indiana. First Miami. Yep. Oh, the Miami OT, he's supposed to be pretty good, right? Yeah, he is pretty good, but he didn't test. At all, he just sat on everything like on his tape. Correct. I think he was hurt if I remember correctly. Yes. Now he's another guy. I think that projects more right. I don't know what his arm length is, but I think he's more right tackle projection. I believe you're correct on that. Okay. But he is somebody that is athleticism is pretty, it's like commensurate to what he actually performed on the football field. I'm trying to remember if he's just a, I think he's just a right tackle. I don't think he played left at all. Okay.

33:44Yeah, I can look it up, but I'm pretty sure he was just right tackle the entire time. Yep. You're pretty, I believe you're correct on that. Yep, durable three year starter at right tackle. Yeah. It says he has a guard's broad build, but moves like a tackle and passets. Hmm. So does that mean you, what do we know about his athleticism at all? I mean, is he a good athlete? I assume him not testing means he's not a great athlete and he's just trying to sit on really good tape. Yeah, I think you're probably right, or I can't remember if he was hurt. For some reason I thought there was some injury, but that also could be an excuse too. He's six, five and a half, three, 29. Okay. His arms are 33 and a quarter. Hands are 10, 5, 8s. So, you know, Give me the arms again, give me the arms again. The arm was 33 and a quarter for six, five and a half. So he's a little, that's why he's right. He's a little bit under what the NFL wants at 34. Yeah. Yeah, but he's also a little good.

34:45I was going to say that size sounds normal. Six, five, three, 29, three, 30. As opposed to the six, seven, kidder's only three, 15, so. Yeah, but listen, I mean, you could put out, you're probably going to put on some weight, I imagine at the NFL level. Look, college weight plans are great, but NFL weight plans are something different. Oh yeah, that is true. No disrespect to any of the Penn State weight crew, because they were some awesome people. Coach Losi, Coach Galt, awesome people. Great, great programs. All right, great stuff. I think we've covered it, right? Is there anybody else you wanted to mention from the OT group? No, I think those are the people that I felt best on for sure. All right, so when we come back for our next show, we'll do the interior offensive line. Perfect. All right, that is a look at the offensive tackle group. They're athletic testing, what makes sense for the Eagles, what may not make sense for the Eagles, and again, on the next episode, we'll do interior offensive line. That's going to do it for this episode of Inside the Data, The Leading Podcast

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