Inside the 1976 Amityville Investigation, Part One | Grave Talks CLASSIC

0:00Today on the Grave Talks, another interview with Laura D'Dio, the Amityville Horror Investigation. Georgian Kathy Lutz knew that the experience they endured that would later be known as the Amityville Horror was all too real. Their drive to be believed in understood led them to an array of paranormal experts, religious figures and media personalities. On the night of March 6, 1976, reporter Laura D'Dio would help to put together a massive team of these personalities to investigate and try to understand exactly what was happening at 112 Ocean Avenue. This would turn out to be a night none of them would ever forget. Members of the Channel 5 camera crew would get violently ill and have visions they couldn't explain.

1:03Sensitives would become overwhelmed and be forced to leave. And the spirit of what appears to be the ghost of a little boy was caught on camera. This night would later be dubbed the Amityville Horror Psychic Sleepover. The Lutz has started inviting people to go into the house that night. The folks at Channel 5 invited some of the other reporter from WNW Radio, which was our affiliate radio station. The Warrens invited a couple of people. So all of a sudden, instead of it just being the Warrens in Channel 5, we had a cast of about 20 people, which was not necessarily conducive to a great say on.

2:07But it was a tour that it does a say on at that point. Well, yeah, I mean, I remember showing up that night at the house and it was lit up. All the floors were lit up. And Alex Tanow, who was part of, he was part of a psychic New York Institute for psychic research in Manhattan. He was, he looked like almost like a vampire. I didn't know who he was. And he appeared at the one of the side windows there. I almost jumped off the doorstep. Because he had a walk like nose, dark circles under his eyes. I was just so startled.

3:10And in that setting, yeah, just adds to the mysterious. I had no idea that all of these extra people were going to show up. Sure. The other thing that happened was that there was a switch on reporters. By the way, at Channel 5, the irony about the Amityville coverage on Channel 5, the only ones who were excited about doing this were myself and Mark Mosky. Steve Bowman was not excited about doing this, this story because he was a serious reporter doing a ghost story, quote unquote, you know, could wreck his reputation. Oh, and by the way, what happened was he suddenly took off for a vacation in one, you know, in Bermuda in mid-afternoon. I didn't know this. Marvin Scott was pressed into service much to his chagrin because he and his wife had had tickets to go out for months to go to a Broadway show.

4:17That they had, you know, was sold out for months with friends. Okay, so he wasn't happy. Um, nobody, nobody wanted nobody wanted this. So you know, it's going to be one of the most infamous stories in the history of ghost stories. Like nobody wanted it. Yeah, exactly. When you're, as you know, when you're in the news business, no idea. Yep. You're going from one thing to another after a while. It's especially in New York. It's just another murder. It's just another robbery. It's just another plane crash. That's the way you think about it. It's, it's very pedestrian. So Marvin, actually, when I happened to call the station that afternoon at two in the afternoon, two or three in the afternoon, uh, asking for Steve Bauman. They said he wasn't around. He had gone on vacation. I said, what do you mean? And at that point, Marvin had grabbed the phone and said, hey, I've just been assigned to story. Tell me everything about it. I know nothing about it.

5:21Uh, and he was, he was pretty ticked off. You know, because his wife was ready to divorce. All the late nights. And now you're, now you're, you're basically cutting out on, we've, we've had these tickets that it took us months to get. And I've been wanting to go to this Broadway show for months. It's been sold out. And now you're, you're canceling on us to go to a haunted house. Yeah. I know for a haunted house. Yeah. And at that point, it was not that big a story. Sure. Again. So, um, when we, you know, we got there and, you know, more and more people were showing up. So, um, it was, uh, it was quite, um, you know, it was quite, quite the, um, quite the thing. And then what happened, unfortunately, um, when we did the say-on itself, after the say-ons in the,

6:34uh, with, and we had all of these psychics there that Lorraine had invited. We had one of the psychics ran out of the room, um, screaming, saying, it's in the, it's in the second floor bedroom. Somebody else ran out and got sick on the front lawn. I was sitting in between Marvin Scott and Mike Linder. And all of a sudden, at one point, Marvin said to me, hey, I just felt a chill. And then five minutes later, Mike Linder said to me, hey, I just felt a chill. Now, in the ensuing years and decades, when Marvin has talked about it, he says, yeah, at one point during the say-ons, I felt a little chill. I can tell you that night, when Marvin felt the chill, he didn't say, yeah, I felt a little chill. He says, hey, I just felt a chill. Yeah. Um, and Marvin has always said he did not, uh, he's felt more afraid watching the movie when the Amityville Horror came out, uh, more afraid with all the kids throwing popcorn and smoking pot in the theater.

7:52Um, but the one, the one of the things that happened that night of, of March 6th, when we got there, that really struck me. Um, and everybody admitted this was that our cameraman, Steve Petropoulos, he was about 40, he was slim. And in those days, you had a three man film crew. Camera man, sound guy, and the lighting guy. And the equipment was much bigger and heavier in those days. So the cameraman, those guys had to be in shape. Steve Petropoulos was based in New Jersey. And again, it wasn't a huge story. And he was, he was one of our, um, he wasn't one of our regular staff camera guys. He was one of our regular like fourth or fifth guys. So he was a regular stringer for us.

8:52So, um, the camera guys, the film crew arrived at about 10 o'clock. And they, um, Steve Petropoulos started to walk up the stairs to the second floor. That was where everybody, um, you know, started, there was one spot at the second floor landing where people felt things. But Steve walked up, um, Steve and I were chatting at the foot of the stairs. And I was introducing him to the different psychics. Um, he said, so Steve says, I'm going to take a look around. And he started to walk up the stairs and he, he got five steps up. And he said to myself, an Alberta Riley. She was one of the other psychics that, Ed and Lorraine Warren had invited. He, he turns around. He says, there's room on the second floor, the second door on the right. He says, and it's filled with mirrors.

10:04And he said to me, I don't know how I know that. Now, I had been in the house before, the week before. That was the mess. That was the master bedroom. That was the defaos that, you know, Louise and Ronald defaos seniors bedroom where they had been shot. The wall behind their bed had those 12 by 12 mirrored tiles. Like in Las Vegas. Sure. So I'm like, okay. And again, that really hadn't been in any of the papers. So I don't know how he would know that. Yeah. So he then continued up the stairs. And before he reached the landing, just when he gets almost to the top landing, he doubled over in pain. And his face that, you know, he was, it got red and then the blood drained out of his face. And he stumbled down the stairs. And we, you know, he's clutching his chest.

11:13And he said that he's gasping. And he said his heart started to palpitate wildly as though he was having heart attack. And he doesn't have any history of heart trouble. And so, you know, we get him some water and he sat there and calmed down and it passed. And then no sooner does Steve Patropolis or cameraman recover than Mary Pascarella, who's another one of the psychics that, who's the Warrens had invited. She's taken ill and she feels nauseous and dizzy. So they take her upstairs so she can lie down and rest. So at that point, it's now about 1045 and we started to gather around the dining room table and to begin the sands. And we've, you know, we've basically got across and candles. And there are a couple of other people, I think that the luts is that George Lutz had invited. And that was, they were from Duke University or that school of parapsychology.

12:30And they were sort of skeptical. And for a little, there was some countertops going on between them and Ed Warren. And Ed basically said to them that those two that he really didn't want them present because they were challenging the house. And so there was that, you know, there was that going around. But we had to hold up the saience for a little bit. This was kind of funny because we had to get the camera, the right camera angles and lighting. And according to Ed Warren, the candles and the crucifix are there to service irritants to antagonize the demonic force.

13:36So again, Ed in this instance as Lorraine went into the trance, the light trance state acts as the guide. So at first Lorraine got nothing except a solid dark mass. And she was speaking slowly. And what it looks like is she was, she appeared, you know, normal, but it looks like she was straining as if she's trying to see a picture unfold on a TV screen. And she said, you know, certain people give this the force in the house energy. And she said that George Lutz was one of them. She also said that she saw an older clergyman in a black garb.

14:40And who uses old rituals and she said that man would be the one who would be able to rid the house of the force. But it would take him three occasions to do so. And according to Lorraine, George Lutz was spiritually warned to leave the house before personal tragedy could strike key in the rest of his family. And she said that the force would need to be expelled before other people could live in the house and peace. Then shortly after that, Alberta Riley was speaking at the other end of the table. And that's when she started shouting, it's upstairs in the bedroom. And then she also was gasping for air and said she had heart palpitations.

15:43And then Mary Pascarella said that there was a subtle but pervasive element in the house, which affected a tall thin man who lived there in the late 1800s. And at that point Ed Warren felt that the psychics extended themselves enough and he halted the saiyans. And then we had somebody else bolt out of their seat and stumble out of the room and vomit. So by midnight after the saiyans had ended, people basically dispersed into different groups and exploring other regions of the house. And Marvin said to me, we were upstairs and he tried to, we wanted to, he says, I don't think we have it.

16:45Because people, Marvin knew, as I knew, for television what you're looking for is something akin to poltergeist. And as I've always said, just because you've got a camera crew there doesn't mean that ghosts, spirits, demonic forces are going, they're not card carrying members of astra. They're not going to show up and perform on command. You know, just because we're there for two or three hours. Sure. You know, Lorraine also thought, by the way, at the time that the negative force that was at the Amityville House was able to operate through inanimate objects. And she did point out the figure of the ceramic lion and pictures on the wall.

17:50So we did go upstairs into the second floor bedroom. And the sewing room and Marvin did try and conduct another mini saiyan with Lorraine in the sewing room because Lorraine felt that the sewing room was the source of a lot of evil. But again, if nothing's going to happen, what it looks like for the television cameras is that you're sitting around talking in a dimly lit room. Sure. You know, this is the night where the ghost boy photo comes up. Correct. At some point, yes. I mean, because again, the Warrens had that fellow that they worked with Paul Bart, who was in a plaid shirt.

19:01And the ghost boy photo, there's, you know, the boy in the photo, whoever that was was also in a plaid shirt. Because there's some argument correct that that it may have just been him on his knees or something kind of looking over and looking up. And then the light catching his eye. And there's also the argument that it could be one of the defao children. And there's been a lot of speculation about who or what it could have been. Now, I have no idea. I can't vouch for it being true. I can't vouch for it being fake because I wasn't there when the picture was developed. Sure. I'm as mystified as anybody else. I didn't look like any of the defao kids to me. I mean, Mark or John, that would have to be who it was.

20:01It clearly was not Ronnie Jr. Sure. I don't know. I mean, a lot of people say, oh, it looks like Paul Bart's. I didn't really think it looked like Paul Bart's either. You know, anything. Who knows? You know, to me, it's a big question mark. And if it was a fake, who faked it? Yeah. So, you know, who I don't know who developed, who developed the picture? Yeah. I heard third, fourth, fifth, hand that now nobody's contacted Paul Bart's. I don't know where he is. But I heard third, fourth or fifth hand a long time ago that somebody allegedly called Paul Bart's and asked him if he developed it and was it fake. And he said, you know, I'm not saying anything.

21:05So, I don't know. But nobody knows where Paul Bart's is. Sure. I've never seen him since then. It adds to the more mystery around the whole case. As you know, the best time to affirm the validity and do your fact checking and track something down is in the immediate aftermath of an attempt to get it out. And you know, you know, you're going to get it out of a person of an incident, whether you're, you know, trying to find out about a traffic incident or robbery, a murder or what have you. It's been, you know, 1976 is, you know, you're going back 43 years. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to have passed on, including, you know, Georgian Kathy Lutz. And of course, you know, sadly, Lorraine Warren passed away just a couple of weeks ago.

22:11And the trail, the trail gets, the trail gets cold. Sure. And talking to, of course, Danny Lutz, Christopher and his brother, Christopher Quarantino, they still to this day are very definitive in saying that these things happen to them. And that's an interesting, almost a new chapter to the story that we've seen in recent years with the documentary, My Amity, Villhoor and Danny speaking about his, his truth and what he believes happened to him in that house. And Christopher also coming out now and speaking more than he had in the past, everything with allegations, many allegations against George on the George obviously not around anymore to defend himself.

23:11But there's of course, allegations out there for listeners who don't know of abuse. There's allegations of George being involved with occult practices or transcendental meditation and many other things as well. What was your knowledge of any of that stuff at the time when you were the reporter working on this case? I mean, I'm not guessing you probably didn't know anything about the allegations of abuse, but as far as is George being involved in anything occult or anything of that nature? Well, I think what George always said to me was that at the time was that, you know, he was sort of a non-practicing methodist. And when this happened to him, Kathy was brought up as a devout Irish Catholic. George was sort of a non-practicing methodist. And when this happened to him, he began to re, he told me, he began to research everything he could, taking crash course in the occult.

24:21And at that point, he had a lot of books on, you know, everything from Padre Pio, the very famous, you know, priest who was, you know, a mystic. Who famously had the mystic moda, the Christ wounds from the cross to the Fatima apparitions, to he had books there on, you know, ghostly apparitions and hauntings, etc. And Danny had said that, you know, and Christopher had both told me that George would be practicing occult rituals out in the garage and things like this and telekinesis.

25:26And you know, to that, I would say, you know, you and I could get Bellbook and candle. Sure. Anybody could try and practice that. That doesn't mean we're going to be successful. Sure. So, I think that might be, you know, rather far fetched. You know, I mean, I could try and do a spell and incantation, but this is not, you know, charmed. Yeah. Sure. Sure. What can you say? As for abuse, I mean, you have to put this into context. Danny was six when his parents got divorced. Christopher would have been four. And Missy would have been what, two. Yeah. So, a divorce, especially going back to the mid-70s, that's a divorce is traumatic in any event for kids.

26:34Sure. Danny was a very, very strong, wilted little boy. And he was very, very close to his mother. And Christopher was a much and is a much gentler personality. Danny wasn't going to like any stepfather that came in. So, if you see those, Danny is a very intense person. What you see in those posters with those ice blue eyes is what you get. Yeah. And I'm sure if you saw Miami, he bill horror. Danny lays it on the line. Yes, yeah. Now, he makes no bones about the fact that he did not like George. And he was not going to back, he was not going to back down. And so, George came in and he was the stepfather. And he, George did say that the house worked on his personality.

27:46And he said that he became, he told me this, he became like a drill sergeant ordering the kids around. So, in the context of today, that might be considered a form of abuse. Do I think that he was beating the kids with belts and things like that? You know, holding their feet to the fire? No. But, and certainly he treated the girl, Missy, differently from the boys. So, there's no doubt that he clashed with Danny at the time.

28:48And Danny reciprocated that. Christopher, you know, was not going to clash as openly with him. But, yeah, I mean, he was going to be a disciplinarian. And Chris, in Chris and recent years, speaking out more and more about what went on. And in what some words are less, he's alluded to there being much more to the story. Then the public is even aware of, or that that's been told yet. And obviously he was, you know, one of the few people that are still around that were in the house when, when these things were going on. But that, that, that, a illusion to, there's more that, that no one knows about yet. And I'm not quoting directly, but, but just roughly what, what he said, that he, he wants to share when, when the time is right, essentially. Do you have any sense as to what he's referring to when he makes claims like that or, or make statements like that?

29:55Well, I, I only know what, what they've said publicly and what, and what they've said to, privately to, you know, myself and, you know, and the warrants over the years, you know, I mean, certainly they, they, they, they saw some horrifying things. I mean, Danny had said, and he said it in Miami, Deville, horror. He and his mother were sitting in the kitchen and they felt that, you know, they saw, you know, a figure come into the kitchen. He felt something go right through him almost. He, and he also said he and Christopher were in the upstairs third floor bedroom that belonged to Ronnie Defeo, Jr. They saw that sort of black figure, you know, come into their room. That would, that would be rather terrifying. Sure. You know, and of course, I guess they found some of the stash of Ronnie Defeo's drugs or, you know, paraphernalia in the closet there.

31:05Sure. And there was the, the incident of the beds levitating. And beyond that, I'm not sure, but all of those things were, you know, that would be enough to terrify me. Those are pretty big in themselves. I'm always, you know, I mean, I've been trying to, you know, and I've heard, I've heard allusions to the fact that those ceramic lions supposedly moved out, you know, Stephen King's the shining. Yeah. So there, there have been any number of things over over years. But again, the only one who hasn't, who has steadfastly stayed out of the public eye and doesn't talk at all is Missy. And she was the one who had the story about, you know, Jody, the, the pig.

32:08Now, Missy, of course, was only five years old. She had not yet reached the age of reason, which is generally considered to be seven. By the way, when we did Miami, Villarra, Eric Walters put that, Eric Walters put that all together. And I was a producer on that and I interviewed any. We had Eric Walters got a top, you know, two top notch psychologists to talk to Danny and they came away, you know, convinced that, you know, Danny was not lying. Yeah. You know, the way the psychologist put it was that, you know, he believes all of this now. I think that Danny is, is delusional. No. And the other thing is, Danny, you know, Danny was nine when this happened.

33:09A lot of people say he was 10, but he was nine. And the reason I take pains to point this out is that there's a big difference, developmentally from nine to 10. Sure. Not like being 30 or 31. So that's a lot for him, you know, to go through. Yeah. And certainly I think his wife, by the way, when Danny got married and had two kids, his wife didn't even know that he had, he was the quote unquote, kid from the Amityville Horror until she went to a video store one night to rent a video. And she was renting the Amityville Horror and she saw his name on the back of it and she said, is that you? What a way to find out. Exactly. And I think in a lot of ways when he did the, he literally, Danny, left home in his teens and they were living in after the Lutz's Georgian Kathy got divorced.

34:20Danny left Arizona and he came back to New York. So he separated himself from that. He basically locked that whole experience away and it wasn't until we did the, he did the Miamiville Horror documentary. Going back to 2011, you know, when we were filming that, that he unlocked the door to that. And I think that let it all out again. Yeah. That wraps up the first part of our conversation. Be sure to press subscribe wherever you download podcasts. You want to add free access to all of our episodes. Simply sign up through Apple Podcasts. Even try it for three days free and binge away with no commercials. You'll also get advanced access to all of our episodes well before they're released to the public. All commercial free Apple Podcasts.

35:20Check it out or patreon.com slash the grave talks. Until next time. I'm Tony Bruceke. Thanks for listening to the grave talks.