Guthrie Case Q&A: The Questions Nobody Can Answer

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2:2121 Plus sponsored by Chumla Casino. This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brusky. Here now, Tony Brusky. All right, we are going to be doing something a little bit different today. You, of course, have been flooding us with questions about the Nancy Guthrie case and the Courier Richens case. And a lot of them, we should address on the air. We should go through them. We should have an open discussion about all of them. So that's what we're gonna do. It's Q and A day today. We're gonna start with the Nancy Guthrie case. Eventually, we'll move over to the Courier Richens case and talk about things from the defense perspective and the prosecution perspective. But we're going to start with Nancy. So feel free in the comments section wherever you are watching us right now, whether it be on YouTube or whatever. Give us your comments. Give us your questions about the cases. And we will do our best to try and answer them as we go through this today. We'll start,

3:22like I said, with the Nancy Guthrie case, 84-year-old woman gone a suspect on camera that nobody can identify DNA. It does not match anyone. Over 50,000 tips and not a single one has led to an arrest as of right now. We are about to, we're approaching week five, basically. We're recording this on a Friday. As we enter into that Monday, that will be week five into this some more than a month and so let's get into it. Your questions, my thoughts on it, no gas, no filter here. Let's jump on into it. This is your mark. It's in Las Vegas. I have to ask a question. Nobody wants to answer. Is Nancy Guthrie still alive at four weeks with no ransom demand, no credible siding, no contact? What does your gut tell you? It's a good question. Yeah, it is a great question. I mean, this far in, let me ask you Todd. And let's, let's

4:27reframe it for a moment and go all the way back to the, the beginning of this. Do you think Nancy Guthrie left her house alive? You know, and I've said this before, I'm kind of new to the whole crime, true crime stuff. First coming on board when the coworker was rolling out. And so that was the first time I had a chance to kind of really deep dive into this kind of stuff. Early on, it was kind of tough to know because we were getting information. And the first information we got days later kind of changed when TMZ was out there. And other reporters were out there reporting. And now there's, we're finding blood and all that kind of stuff. So I think early on, the first couple of days, you're like, you know, this, this could be something they've got her, you know, they're probably holding air. I'm not sure that the ransom letters had come out quite at that point. But then you started getting more evidence. And you started, you heard about the blood on the front porch or by the door. And as time progressed, very quickly for me, I just started believing that she

5:33was no longer with us. Like it didn't take me more than maybe the first week to go. Something is not adding up here. And the fact that the, the ransom notes were coming in, but they were going to media outlets and not the FBI and not the police and not the family for certain. Everything started to stink to high heaven. Pretty early on for me. It feels like when there's no information, you fill in the gaps. And that's what everybody wants to do. And there, there was information that was coming out in the case. It just wasn't truly, I think, connected to the case. But like right away, I was like, the ransom notes just seemed like BS. I mean, the add to give them some credence at the beginning, because you just don't know. And then after that started getting weirder, I wrote those off pretty quick as being anything. Then you got, well, there's, there's all these gloves everywhere. And we know how crazy that was. And then so there's a glove two miles away. And like I said, like you can go anywhere,

6:37you're going to find rubber gloves on the sides of the roads. I don't know who's wearing rubber gloves and throwing them on sides of roads. But apparently, apparently, everybody, because they're over there. I know. Like, but why? Like, what is the prick? Is it drug use? Like, I mean, but what would you be using the rubber glove? Why does everybody have rubber gloves? I'm not sure, but I think the moment that chef started wearing them in the kitchen and stuff like that, I always said it became kind of this new, old thing to always wear rubber gloves. No matter what you, either that, we've got a lot of tattoo artists in the area. Why are they after? I'm not sure. Because I wonder like, like, you do find them on the sides of the road all the time. But it's like, why? I can't, I can't think of a reason why I have rubber gloves. I mean, unless I'm like, I'm staining some wood in my garage or something. I don't really think of it, or you know, washing dishes maybe. I don't, I don't really use rubber gloves. Then my mom used to, but it's, it's, it's weird to me that there's so much rubber glove use everywhere that,

7:40that these items are just all over the place. But back to the question, I don't think she left the house alive. I don't, I think something happened. And again, I said, so no, I think for the beginning, she hasn't been with us. But I'm not faulting anybody for going down the road and holding out hope, especially the family. You got to do that just in case. But at this point, I'm kind of doubtful. On it. Gen Z actually had a question on that. And she says, if something did happen, if it was a B&E and all that kind of stuff, why not just leave the body behind? And I think we've kind of touched on it a couple of times over the past several weeks. Yeah, I think because Nancy becomes the evidence. And what we've, you know, from many other cases that we've covered, if there was some sort of a struggle, some sort of an incident fingernails, particularly, um, there would be maybe they were thinking far enough ahead. They've that took place that

8:42somebody's DNA could be under Nancy's fingernails. For whatever reason, whatever happened, we don't know. I think Nancy became part of the evidence. And Nancy's remains could be something that could then reveal, excuse me, who, who did this or lead someone there possibly? That would be my gas. I mean, the only other, other, you know, thought process I have on it is if this was an attempt that was originally going to be for money, just very, very poorly thought out. And she died very early on. And then it was like, well, shit. What are we going to do? Right, almost like a panic kind of situation. What do we do? Do we leave the body? Do we take the body? Whatever. And I, and that's kind of where I'm leaning into it as well. Either way, I, whatever the reason is that this happened, I think there was a moment of pure panic and they just decided to take the body

9:42instead of leaving it behind. I do too. And I don't know that I don't think it was thought out. I really don't. Another observation that has been made in the last couple of days, the back pack. I was really, when I was, I was on court CV the other night talking about it. And the question I was given was, you know, what do you think was in the back pack? It's like everybody's just purely speculating. And my response was a fleece blanket, a yacht sea board, and Michael Bolton's greatest hits on vinyl. Because why not? He was planning a cozy night end that went sideways. But no, I mean, we don't know. But what I was surprised by because, and they did, I was actually thinking of doing this myself, but Cody and Vinnie did this. They went to Walmart and they got the back pack. I was actually thinking of doing that. So I'd have it ready for that segment,

10:46but I didn't. And so they actually had the back pack on camera, the actual model of it. And they, there's a lot you can get into that back pack. I mean, a lot. They pulled out, and you could tell it was like just in their production room. And it was, well, what have we got around here to jam in the back pack? So it was like some tarps and blankets and things of that nature. But they were big. I mean, they got a lot in that pack. The thought process I had, and it was, you know, it comes down to what was the intent of what this person was doing. I mean, if this was intended to be a burglary gone, and I'm thinking there might have been a backpack in a backpack for hauling more stuff out, you know, get it in there, take it out. There you go. Then you can open it up and go. You know, whatever other tools you may need to have for a B&A, if it was targeting her, then it would be things to restrain her. Possibly, here's a thought process here. Possibly,

11:48you could fit a large blanket in that thing or a tarp. So if you were to take a body, but again, this is be assuming that you're going into, and you're going to disable her in her home and like roll her up in a carpet or roll her up in a blanket or roll her up in a tarp and take her out, which doesn't seem like that would make any sense. If you're trying to get her, I would think you'd be wanting to keep her alive and in decent shape. She's not being rolled up in a tarp. So if they're showing up with a blanket or a tarp for rolling a body out, that shows a very different intent, which again, this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but who the hell knows? We had a comment from men's easy menus who said that they believe it looks like there's a drone inside the backpack. That person's seeing the outline of a drone. Now, I'm not sure why you'd have a drone with you. I think that's a stretch to guess, but maybe, I mean, anything's possible. I also have the feeling that we might be seeing

12:53Bosch eggs greatest hits in there too. Little low down shuffle. Low down. Shuffle. Exactly. Yeah. It could be in there. I mean, again, anything, we just don't know, but I was surprised by the volume that could be put in there. Diane in Portland, the gloves they found two miles from the house had DNA from an unknown male. It didn't hit encodus. What happens next? Are they running investigative genetic genealogy? How long does it actually take? From what we understand, they are running IGG on this. Does it matter? I wouldn't want to be the person on the end of that. But does it have any sort of investigative like claws to it? At the end of the day, maybe they'll figure out whose glove it was. And they'll probably have an alibi. That's probably where that lands, if it lands anywhere. I just don't feel like those gloves meant anything to my eyes away.

13:56I can't imagine that they would. I feel like that is such a stretch. And it just seems to mean like a lot of what they're quote unquote, finding in this whole case seems like a stretch. Like there's nothing that's really evident. There's this. There's this. There's this. Everything is just like they're grabbing at whatever straws they can get at this point because there doesn't seem to be much of anything out there. It really does. And last night, and I haven't had a chance to really dive into this yet today. So if I'm ignorant on this, I'm apologizing. But I know that there was some video that's come out from what I understood. I saw Vinny, the politician from Court TV posted it. And many others too of a vehicle. But it was like two and a half miles away around the same time. Two and a half miles is a long fucking distance. Yeah. I mean, it really is a long distance. I mean, it sounds short, but there's a lot of things

14:58within two and a half miles of Nancy Guthrie's house. And a lot of possible vehicles. I mean, is it something to look at without a doubt? I guess my question is why is it a month in? We're sitting like, oh, look, here's some video of vehicles active in the area at that time of the night. When do you think that that would be like the first five days? That stuff would just yes, right? I don't know. Is it the other thought process would be did they already have this information, these videos? And they're running into brick walls on it. And it's not going anywhere. So now the investigative thought processes will let's throw it out to the public and see if they can figure it out. See if they could because sometimes it works that way. It all depends on the investigator and what their processes are individually. Some think let's throw it out to the public right away for identification. And maybe we'll get it. Some hold it really tight to the best. And then because they want to get it or they think that if there's less people out there,

16:00basically polluting the water with bunk, then the investigators can do a better job. It's kind of rolling the dice either way. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What's going on with that video? But I did find it interesting. What do we got over here in our live comments? Anything interesting? We got a message from Gen Z. She's usually on top of stuff. She said remember with the Cobra case, it took six weeks for them to find somebody with the genealogy DNA and she believes that they're not really, we're not seeing everything they're actually working on at this point, which is possible as well. Yeah. Yeah. It took less than that. Publicly, that's what we found out. But they knew and that's a good point because literally, and I've been bringing this up to during that whole process with Cobrager and I hope that that's what's going on here. You had Chief Fry at the stand saying in his public addresses to everybody, we have no leads. We don't have this. We don't have that. But in reality, the FBI was tailgating

17:06Cobrager all the way to Pennsylvania while he's saying that. So they did know. They just weren't publicly stating it and they actually lost him along the way too. But could that be going on? Yes. I think there's, I think you have so many different people in different areas investigating this case and their own ways. And that's where we get so much noise and so many contradictions because they're, again, it's lack of leadership. It's lack of a clear direction and a clear strategy. And you, this is what you get. This is what's interesting. I was talking to Robin. We were texting last night about this Robin Drake and he's like, you know, what's really disturbing about this is, and I'm just kind of paraphrasing. He'll explain better on Monday. Everybody looks at this and goes, gosh, this seems like really disorganized and really kind of a cluster. It's really not like if you compare it to other cases that have been handled in this jurisdiction under nanos and such, they're all chaos. And if you compare it just to other cases

18:09in general, take nanos out of it. It's about par for the course. I mean, every so far, like a lot of the cases that we're currently covering besides just this one, you're seeing a lot of like disjointed actions by law enforcement and bad investigations and things that were missed and and all that kind of stuff. So I guess one of the things I've learned in the almost year that I've been doing this is seems like that's par for the course. It is. It's one of those things where don't look behind the curtain if you don't want to see what's going on because you're doing your and I three, we were brought up in this idea of like, oh, you know, they're smarter people behind the curtain doing things that that need to be done. And they're working in our best interest. And we just, oh, and depending on how you're brought out, okay, if I trust that, that seems good. And I think the more we look behind the curtain, the less that's a true statement. And we're all kind of shocked by it. But I think that's true

19:10in like almost any, any profession, whether it's law enforcement, whether it's whatever radio, you know, that was, you know, I always laughed at like when we would have, I mean, I thought it was, I was shocked when I first started of like, what do you mean you're not actually tallying the votes for the top nine at nine? You're just picking these out of your ass of the songs you like, you know, all those sort of things, those facades that we see. And if you think like they're taking caller nine all the time, they're not, you know, they're like, they're going for the caller that's going to sound best on the air. There's, there's, there's so many things that are going on behind the scenes in ways that we don't realize in areas that we're just not familiar with. And it's no different in law enforcement. The difference in law enforcement is the fact that, you know, people's lives are on the line. They're not just winning a two-legged thigh chicken dinner. So right. And each instance is going to be different. Like you can plan for, you can plan for one of these situations to come about in your community. But each one's going to be a little

20:12bit different. Yes, there are things that are similar to other cases, to other investigations. But each one is different. So I guess we have to keep that in mind. It's just nice. It's nice as a, as a, as a member of the United States as a citizen here to think that our law enforcement is more like what we see on TV. I, I wanted to be more like Hillsborough Blues or something like that. It's more like Reno 9-1-1. I'd be okay with that too, because there's some comedy with that. So yeah, I mean, and, and, you know, that's, I mean, that's the reality. And it's not an instance. I mean, it's just, it is what it is. There are many wonderful people that are trying to do their best. And in any sort of institution or any sort of structure, you know, you have leadership. Sometimes you have good leadership. Sometimes you have bad leadership. It is what it is. You have egos, you have personalities, you have people. And unfortunately, when time is of the essence in, in a case like this, if, if you, you're luck of the draw for wherever that jurisdiction is,

21:13and you got somebody with an ego that can't really see beyond it, that's my conjecture on nanos. I think a lot of others, this is what you get. And there's, there's not a lot of levers you can pull to reset that beast. And in the timely manner that you need to, when time is of the essence. And that's why it's so important to know who you're voting for and why you're voting for them. There you go. I mean, the guy won by like 400 some votes when 98% of his union was saying like no confidence. But the general public said, yeah, seems like a winner. Like, and, and I don't know, I mean, how many times when you go into vote, you may go in and you're like, okay, I know I'm voting on like this one thing or this one person. And there's like 30 other things you got to vote for. How many times have you gone in and like, I'll do this one. And you don't really know what the fuck you're voting. I don't anymore. If I don't know what I'm voting for, I don't. But I remember like the first handful of times I ever voted in my life. I'm like, oh, I'll just go along party line

22:17or I'll just go along with whatever, whatever name seems most recognizable, which is really how most elections are one is who's most top of mind, not the issues, not anything that's important, not a scandal, not a track record. It's just what name comes to your mind first. And that seems to be how these things are done. But that is why it is so important. Like, if you're going to vote and know what the fuck you're voting for, because this is what you can get. This public service message brought to you by Hidden Killers. Exactly. What is that? What was the question right there? Identify the gun he has and someone will know who owns one. Long barrel semi-auto. I have no idea. I don't think we have any identification on the gun. All I know is that they said the the holster was odd and an oddly, oddly placed, which I think spoke more to an experience of the individual more than anything else. I have never seen a holster like that before. Me either. I don't know what the hell that was. I'm not a holster. I don't know. I don't have a holster. I've

23:19never holstered a gun. But I know that that's not how you do it. That doesn't seem like a great idea the way it was it was set up there. Like you're kind of waiting for him to bend over with the foliage and the shot goes off. And then suddenly it's an episode of America's funniest home videos. And not what we had right there. Suddenly Bob Sagitts back and doing, whoa, doing the commentary of what's going on. From Michelle from San Diego, the footage shows the guy's face. It's been everywhere. Well, I mean, it shows him with the mask on. How is it possible that nobody recognizes him, not a coworker, not a neighbor, not a family member, not a single person who's ever met this guy that seems statistically impossible? I bet people know him. I bet there's plenty of people who recognize that. I mean, there's plenty of people who are like just aimlessly making accusations, too. But I would guess there's there's some folks out there that recognize it. But then you have to look at it just because they recognize that person. You got to consider, okay,

24:24doesn't mean you're just going to pick up the phone and call them in because what's the repercussions to you if you do that? What community are you in? How is that person part of that community? Is that person someone where if they were caught, that community would look down on you for turning that person in? There's a lot of the lot that goes into that decision-making process. And do you want a spotlight on you, period? If you are in a situation where someone who did this, whether it was a B&E gone wrong or someone who was kidnapping someone for ransom and that went horribly wrong, if that's the circle you're in, whether it's familial or your friends or whatever, the odds are you may not have the cleanest track record either. Or you may have something that may not look favorable to law enforcement. So all of those things are being weighed by anyone

25:28who may know this person, especially someone who knows that person closely because it may lead to other things and other people being caught for other crimes. So I think that's a big factor in all of that. Also, I mean, we've got some of the pictures up on our YouTube live stream right now. I don't know if I'd be able to recognize somebody I know just by the photos. I would have to have intimate knowledge of some of the clothing. I would have to have some intimate knowledge of where they hang out, where they may have been, all that kind of stuff. Looking at that, there's not, except for the clothing and things like that, from the facial features, there's not a ton to really go on. I don't think. There isn't. I mean, we can say, well, he's got eyebrows. Well, you know, are those eyebrows sticking out? Are those just shadows from the holes in the mask? I don't know. And that's, I don't think I would know. I mean, we should do a test next week. I'll get one of those. And then we'll see if you can actually tell

26:33it's me just by wearing it. I think you should go to random people's porches over the weekend. Great. And then go on the ring app and then see if you can find yourself on people's porches. That's great. And what do you got here? What's your next question? Tony, you think multiple people involved? Ain't no way the single guy is carrying Nancy's body alone. This depends how well-built he is. I don't know. I mean, you can't really tell his muscle strength or density from that photo. If you're a strong guy or gal, although this looks like a guy, it could handle Nancy. Could I know? I mean, but, you know, the right person, I think, certainly could, don't you? I do. And also, we have to remember she was small stature. If you look at any pictures where she's standing next to Savannah Guthrie, she is a short woman. She is not very tall. And I don't think she waited off a lot in some of the pictures that we've seen of her recently. So I think even somebody as weak as I could probably walk away

27:37with a body if I needed to. I probably could have drug her out, but I mean, lifting her carrying her. I don't know. I've seen you lift a lot. I think you could, you'd be fine. You know, I, before, a couple of years ago, I had a small farm. It was, and I know, I know, like what? Yeah. It was an idea of my ex-wife who played farmer for a couple of years. Trust me, I've known Tony a long time. When I found out he had a farm with farm animals, mind blown. Yeah, mind too. Then I live here. And in that adventure of a couple years, we had some pigs. And one of the pigs passed away. And it was about, and I'm probably a hundred fifty two hundred pounds somewhere in that range, maybe a little bit more. I've never, I don't know, I've never dealt with like dead weight of an animal other than like a cat or something like that. And oh my god, like that's some hard shit to deal with. Because you can't

28:44just like necessarily pull it either because if you pull on a corpse or something in the wrong way, I'm not trying to be gross here, but limbs can kind of, you know, break, come off. You know, I mean, it's not just like, it's not as simple as may look. But I had to get these pigs out of the, this one pig out of the cage it was in, or it's pen. And I had a four-wheeler and I managed to do it. But as I'm doing this, I'm like, thinking to myself about true crime. I'm like, my god, like the people who are like into like serial killing people and like all in bodies around like, that's a lot like that right there. Like even if you're like so disturbed and crazy and you're like, this is fun, or like I love the thrill of the kill or whatever, I think the body part is where I be tapping out. I'm like, that's just too much work. Way too difficult to to do the lifting in all of that. It's, it's horrend, it's hard, it's horrible. So I can't imagine doing that with a

29:48human being. Well, I did have so many messages that they believe that they said she was 150 pounds. So that would be about what you're talking about there. You said 150 to 200. So maybe it's, maybe it's more to handle than I'm thinking. And it's not, it's distributed differently because it's now like a weight, you know, where it's like, it's all right here. It's, it's, it's concentrated over here and it kind of shifts and it's, you know, it's a body. So it's somewhat gelatinous in the way, you know, where it, I don't know. It's not an easy task, but I've seen a lot of people say, how could somebody do that? Because people do it all the time. Well, and if there's adrenaline going on, let's be honest, if this, if this was a mistake, if she was not supposed to, if this was not supposed to happen and they didn't actually think about take, you're going to have a little extra energy to do what you got to do to cover your butt. So it's, it's possible that adrenaline helped them a little bit in this. Yeah. So I imagine that's it play too, but I mean, is it, could it have been done by more than one person? I guess sure. It does, is there really any evidence that points to that? No. Is there anything that points either way? No. There's just not a lot

30:54of evidence period. That's what we got. We got the doorbell. So for basing it slowly on the, solely on the doorbell, there's one guy in it. Could there be another somebody in a car down the road? Yeah. Totally. But we just, we just don't know the answer to that question. Anything else on Nancy that's popped up here that we want to get to before we go over to Cory Richens? Nothing, I mean, I was nothing that we haven't already really touched on. I would just say that there's a lot of people wondering about the timeline and the amount of time that that person was in the house. And they also say that that may be why there was such a long amount of time in the house was because they were trying to fumble around and all that kind of stuff. I agree with that. I kind of feel like that might have been an OSHIT moment where what do we do? And that's when I'm curious about cell tower pings and all of that, especially at that moment, because I'm do, I wonder if that person that was in there either they handled

31:54their OSHIT moment by themselves. And okay, here's I'm going to take her or if there was some phone calls made of like, what should I do? I don't know that everyone's guess is as good as me. I think you're going to solve this with the cell tower and crossing that with something else. I don't know what I was thinking the Walmart receipts if they can find it. But again, there hasn't been any cross there yet. Let me ask you this because you've done this for a little while that the fact that they're they're stopping the constant updates now. Those are going away. They've decided they're only going to update us when they need to. It's not going to be an everyday thing or whatever. What does that say about the investigation at this point? Is it getting so cold now that there's just not much to share? I think they should have been slower in that to begin. I mean, they were just saying random things constantly. The thing is I don't feel like anything they had been sharing was of much value to begin with, other than like they felt like they needed to fill the dead air.

32:58So is it is it slowing down? I don't know that it ever got really wound up quite honestly. I mean, I think they were trying and looking, but I just don't feel like they ever got traction anywhere. Again, unless there's something behind the scenes that we are completely unaware of. So I don't know. At some point here, yeah, I mean, it is winding. The immediate search, the immediate issue, you know, somewhere within the general two mile vicinity, in someone's backyard or the desert somewhere, that's winding down because they've done it. They've looked, they've checked. She's not there. So that part certainly ending, and they got a lot of leads to track to run down. I mean, when you got like 50,000 leads coming in, these are human beings that are trying to chase them all down. So they're going to spend some time still doing that. But yeah, I mean, until they get something that has traction, it

33:58it is slowing down. But again, like I said, I don't think it ever really got up to a good speed to begin with, right? So it's a shame, but that's where that that sits right now. Love to see more of your comments. We'll continue the conversation in the comments section on our substack and on YouTube. Be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're downloading this so you don't miss any of our coverage on this case. Want more on this case and others? Then press subscribe now, and don't miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony Briewski and the Hidden Killers podcast. Hey there, it's Ryan Seacrest for Safeway. It's stock up savings time. Now through April 2nd, spring in for store-wide deals and earn four times of points. Look for in-store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, nerds, Pillsbury, Lowrys, Breyer's Quaker and Culture Pop, then clip the offer in the app for automatic event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in store or online for easy, drive up and go, pick up or delivery. Restrictions apply. See website for full-terms and conditions.

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