Episode 613 - Concorde.....the new 737?

0:00In the next video, let's start getting more opener. 2Opening wrap Well, hello and welcome to episode 613 of the Plane Talking UK podcast. I'm Carlos and in this week's show, British Airways unveils a new luxury cabin for the A380s later this year. Three airports in the UK are hit by a cyber attack with data of 8.7 million customers accessed and the Quantice Retirement Plan marks another step in the Airbus A380

1:05decline. In the military segment, Boeing, Manuve or Moves a second RAF-E7A wedge-tile to Boscombe down for the next phase of military acceptance under Britain's three-year aircraft program and we mark 70 years since the first flight of the Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker. We'll also be talking about the Jersey Air display that never will be attending on Thursday, 10 September and we've also got a double helping of the Retro airline ad of the week. And joining me this week from his glorious Buckinghamshire Rainy, slightly rainy countryside studio, is of course, never-bounds. Yes, and I'm pleased to say we have two full waterbats as well, finally in the garden. So we've had some much needed rain this week, which won't solve everything, but it's a good start and it's made the grass grow very nicely. It's gone from its horrible light brown to a more pleasing green colour as well.

2:09So it's amazing how resilient it can be. But no, we've finally had some rain. Actually today we've had rain for most of the day, which has been nice. So I wouldn't normally say that, but I can today because we're happy about that. It's nice having the rain there, but you know what, it's like one trip down to the shops and back in the car and it's instantly filthy. Oh, yeah, of course. That's how it is, isn't it? Yeah, but yeah, I clean both cars yesterday. So one's in the garage, so it's not too bad, but the other one will get a bit dirty. I'm afraid, but no, it's good. We've got some decent weather. Actually, we're going to have some nice temperatures tomorrow. It's 25, 26 degrees forecast for tomorrow. So a nice day in prospect. And joining us tonight back with us is our resident Airbus A320 captain and Sim training captain. And he's not in his usual studio this week. Welcome, Andy. Hello, this looks like an AI background, doesn't it? I just realized

3:14where I looked out of the window. There's a beautiful evening out there. So yes, there's no sign of rain here and it's still a lovely warm 28 degrees out there. There's some in my Milan studio this week, but it's nice to be back on. Did you say Milan? Yes, Milan. I'm not in the Gattweck studio or the pub studio. So a new remote location this one for the podcast. I've got to say, Andy, that does look stunning behind you. Is it actually a, looks like a field behind you? Yeah, there's the field and bushes and then that's mountains in the background. For those of you watching or listening, I should say in the audio world, get yourselves out of YouTube because you need to see Andy's background on there. At Nev, we're missing Nick, what's happened to Nick this week? Well, he's, yeah, I was going to say he's on another holiday. He's gone back to the Canary Islands again for another week. So good for him. But actually, his experience is first ATR, I think is it 42 or 72? A car from a witch version, Binta,

4:19operate, but his first trip on one of those. So he was delighted about that today and he's done some video for us. So we'll be playing that out on next week's show. He was mightily impressed with the aircraft and the service after say from all accounts. So yeah, I'll be looking forward to bringing you that next week. Right, Nev, it's the beginning of the month. It is a second of September and time to say a special thanks to lots of people. It certainly is and of course, as you know, we can't operate this show without your help. And to those who donated to us this month, thank you very much indeed. The people that have donated by Patreon, Richard Adams, Derek Smith, Bill Aronick, Sam Dawson, Alex Robinson, Dirk Sashabir, Stephen Ivy, Luis Cusharis, Alan White, Stephen Howland, Tanya Weiman, Nicholas Hewitt, Masha Kits, Ruben Wells, Neil Landworn, Graham Haley, Jonathan Warner, Jordan Rose, Andrew Wilson, Captain Jeff,

5:22Adam Spink, Liz Piper, Jeff Ward, Stuart Backer, Stephanie Plummer, Carlos, John Falk, and Sturman. And a couple of people that pay us via PayPal are Jenny Parkinson and Marzo's Karim. Many thanks to you for your superbly generous donations once again. We couldn't do that. Yes, thank you to everyone who donate to us every month. Thank you very much indeed. Because it helps us to do what we do every week. So thank you. Right, can acknowledge everyone who's joined us in the YouTube chat room this evening. Let's have a look and see who's in there. Top of the list. Who was first in there this week? Never have a go. Oh, actually, this week, Darren Smith got in there at about half past 12, our local time. So he's beaten Marzo's into the chat room for the first time. He's awarded himself a first prize cup as well like that. Marzo's was close second day. So well done, Marzo's Richard Adams, hello to you.

6:27We should have a competition really, shouldn't we each week? John Falk, good evening, Tanya, hello to you, Darren Smith, G-B-U-E-I, Tango, Bloom, good evening guys. Hello, John. Jason Trussell, good evening to you. Tracey TD, hello to you. Good to see you in there. Masha, good evening. Dirk S. I won't be the chat room without Dirk S in there. Make sure I don't miss anyone else. Else out. And thanks to everyone who's tuned in for the show this evening. Don't forget, if you're listening to us as an audio show, we are live on YouTube on a Wednesday night, seven o'clock here and we'd love you to join us in the chat room to join in with the usual fun that is the YouTube chat room. Right, now I'll leave you to start the show. Yes, as always, we begin the show with the commercial news segment.

7:35And the first story is from InsideFlyer.com and it says that British Airways will retrofit its A380 fleets with a new luxury cabin by late 2026. Boy, does it need it? Reducing total seat numbers to 421 whilst adding enclosed first-class suites and expanded club suites. The upgrade targets transatlantic routes from London Heathrow and passengers will see enhanced privacy, wider seats and modernised tech across all premium cabins. Well, the retrofit program, which began late last year will overhaul all cabin classes on BA's A380s with the most dramatic changes in first and business class. First class suites will measure 36.5 inches wide and convert

8:35to 2 meter beds and include 32 inch 4K screens. Club suites capacity will rise to 110 seats and premium economy will also be redesigned for long haul comfort. The first upgraded aircraft is going to enter service later this year. The Soverhaul aligns with British Airways strategy to compete with premium-focused global carriers by emphasising privacy, space and technology. The full fleet conversion will extend beyond 2026 gradually rolling out on key routes to the US and beyond. The reduced seat count reflects a deliberate shift towards higher yield premium travellers, prioritising revenue per passenger over volume. Travellers on BA's A380 routes will gain significantly more space and privacy, especially in first class, but may face fewer available seats. Booking early will be critical as premium inventory shrinks and fares may rise to reflect the upgraded product and reduced capacity.

9:41Well, that's good news, isn't it? I mean, they've got 12 aircraft and they've never had a proper refurbishment like this, so an upgrade, so it's about time. Of course, they're competing with so many others on the A380 and other aircraft as well. The A380 fleet was lagging seriously behind after say, but this is good news that they're putting the money in effort into it. I guess this must mean, Nev, that they're not going to be getting rid of their 380s anytime soon. I don't think they can. I think they've got to ring their neck, basically, get as much value out of them as they can. I don't know whether they have leased them or they own any of the aircraft, but I'm sure we could find that out, but yeah, they've got 12 and they've had some pretty bad reports of unreliability in the recent past as well. Hopefully, they've got overall that and this will help them with this aircraft. It's nice to see that the old club class is

10:47finally leaving the fleet properly, and the 380 was one of the last with it for the club world anyway. My wife had the chance when she was working with Be early this year to actually try out the mock-up of this seat, and she said it's far better than the first that we traveled on in November last year. It's a massive upgrade. That's really good. Very shrewd business from Be it increased the premium offering, because as it says, viewers seats book earlier the why's the cost is going to go up quite a lot. Yeah, Derkess says in the chatroom, you wonders whether if high-worth customers haven't already moved onto other carriers. That's a very good point. And of course, once you've tried another carrier which you like, whether it's Emirates, Loftancer or whatever it is, then and you've joined their program, their loyalty program, then you may not go back perhaps to PA. But yes, it happens anyway. Be is clubs not worth what it

11:50used to be anymore. That's a very good point. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, well, let's see how they get on with it anyway, and then we can report back later next year perhaps. I have to say now, I'm impressed with the design. I think you see on the screen now. I love the color palette they've gone with that does look like they're using premium materials as well on the seat back and on the the base as well, the cushion base as well. Yes, and there's a bit of a nod there to the Finne A350 perhaps with the way they've got the desk layout on the left hand side and the angle of the seat. But well, let's see. Let's see how they get on. But yeah, they need to do something, and obviously it's a huge investment, but you can't have an aircraft like that flying around with the original club world seats, for example, it's just ridiculous with everybody else has upgraded their products and offering. John Falk's been a lucky person in the past,

12:51Nev, if you are seeing a chatroom. Yes, John says 30 plus years ago, I used to get regular upgrades to first. Those days are sadly behind this John, as you may have noticed. So yeah, it's, but let's see, I'd be interested to get some reports once these aircrafts are to get fitted out with these new suites, both in club, first class and premium economy by the sounds of things as well. So let's see what happens. Before we move on, Nev, did you ever get an upgrade into first all the years you've traveled with the A. No, never happened once. I got upgraded to business many times from premium economy, but never to first. No, oh, Blimey, didn't know who you were today. Well, they probably did. That's right. Next story is one that we touched on a few weeks back, actually, I think it is aviation news.eu. First, fully UK built Britain, Norman,

13:53Islander enters Grand Testing following production repatriation to Benbridge. Britain, Norman has commenced the Grand Testing phase for all the first BN2B-26 Islander aircraft fully manufactured in the United Kingdom following the historic repatriation of its production line to the Isle of White. The milestone marks a major revival for the British civil aircraft manufacturing as a twin engine utility plane prepares for its maiden flight targeted for September ahead of a delivery to the Falkland Islands government air service. And for those of you watching in YouTube, you'll be able to see the aircraft and Lawrence glory. The aircraft rolled off the assembly line at the company's Benbridge facility on July the 30th, closely following the successful first application of electrical power on July the 29th. This roll out completes the structured manufacturing sequence that confirmed 75% of structural completion back in June followed by the installation of the aircraft's piston engines,

14:54propellers, aerodynamic cowlings, brakes, electrical systems and manual flight control surfaces. The delivery concludes an era where major aerostructures were manufactured overseas in eastern Europe, right to final integration, formally establishing a continuous modernization civil assembly line on British soil. Engineered for rugged durability, the new build BN2B-26 retains the exceptional short takeoff and landing performance that has defined the islander for more than 50 years. Upgraded with modernized tooling and advanced assembly machinery, the high wing utility aircraft provides critical island hopping connectivity, maritime patrol capability and low operating costs on unpaid gravel and grass runways. Supported by a manufacturing workforce that has grown by more than 40% since reshoring, the Benbridge factory is currently assembling the second air framerate to sustain a regular production cadence. Following the completion of the

15:56flight, certification trials, the aircraft will enter commercial service with the Forkland Islands Government Air Service to maintain vital inter-island passenger and logistics lifelines, and aviation stakeholders, prospective regional operators and fleet managers can arrange direct technical briefings and onsite facility visits at Benbridge as a production ramps up towards a higher annual deliveries. The Grand Testing of the New Islander cements a successful reshoring initiative that revitalises specialised British aerospace manufacturing with the initial customer deliveries, broaching the subsequent airframes already progressing down the line. Britain Norman secures the future of an enduring aviation workforce for remote communities worldwide. Now I think we're in which museum it was, never we saw this, I think it was when we were up north in Edinburgh where we were, went to the museum, but they had one of these in-sides. One of the older ones I was just saying so. But good to see British manufacturing back and a

17:01handy aircraft as well for those short hops across to Jersey in fact. Well the thing is, a couple of comments firstly from Richard Adlerland, obviously who lives on the other one. He says unfortunately final assembly has to be done at Leon's Solent. They don't have permission to fly from Benbridge due to an argument with a rather strange land owner. So that's not helpful at all. And John Falk says bring it back to the channel islands and Orene and absolutely right. I mean the connectivity required around the channel islands between the channel islands and to the mainland UK is really important. Now obviously the channel islands does have its challenges with low visibility sometimes as well. But there's been a lot of complaints about the connectivity around the channel islands for some time now. So here is an opportunity to get this sorted out because it's been far too long I think that the channel islands have had problems

18:05with inter island connectivity and also connectivity to the mainland too. Now correct me if I'm wrong but they had tri-islanders, didn't they? The three ancient variant. So this would be a good opportunity, a special brand new air frims to go back to using that type of aircraft. It's a very versatile air frim as well. It's been used by the British military before. A lot of them based at Belfast Older Grove and I think the military designation that is the defender, which is like a land Rover. In fact it's built much like a land Rover really isn't it? They go on and on these things forever and ever. But yeah awesome news. Yeah well built like you said Andy the one that me and Nev saw in that museum up north was looked good enough to carry on flying didn't they? It was very well very well put together. Right Andy next story for you and finally enough is a sim story. Yes and this is from Lara News.net. Never heard of them. But Pilot Trin and Academy Skyborne

19:08has installed a new UK CA approved Airbus Air 320 flight training device to enhance its training capability capacity. Sorry I'm produced pilots that are ready for airline operations following Skyborne's industry leading APS MCC course. The FMPT2 MCC compliant simulator receives received from AviatorFi will provide trainees the opportunity to gain practical air 320 flight experience and exposure to immersive flying scenarios at Skyborne's Bournemouth Airport facility. Ne11's head of training Skyborne commented this marks the second simulator installed out Bournemouth Airport training centre in the past year and to test them into our commitment to deliver world class facilities that support the next generation of airline pilots. The A320 simulator from our trusted partner AviatorFi plays a significant role in providing our trainees with valuable experience and operational awareness while setting them up for a successful flying career. The company says this new simulator includes an instructor workstation and intuitive

20:12iOS as the operating panel designed by Pro Simps TS equipping instructors with an ergonomic workspace with tools to monitor and manage sessions effectively while delivering consistent efficient pilot training. We are happy and honored to have been awarded this contract from one of the prime ATOs in the UK, Frank Van der Laugh, commercial director of AviatorFi said, Along the way we have come to appreciate the people at Skyborne and their professional, dedicated and collaborative way of working. We want to stress that this true partnership has for which the foundations have been laid over the last nine months only begins. We look forward to continuing working with our friends at Skyborne. This is pretty cool, a fixed-based trim device is obviously far more cost effective than a large expensive full flight machine and these things look really good actually and their FMPT2 which is good for doing things such as multi-crew cooperation etc. So yeah awesome and this is actually in the building where I learned to fly many years ago but not under the same company, no?

21:15You're lucky said Andy, even the cost of ease they have a full-motion sim such as the ones that you're trying in, you know, haven't, you know, me, myself and Nev, you know, you as well, have seen the fixed-based sims and had to go in the fixed-based sims over the 7-3 even the Airbus 3-20 as well and they are as, you know, as good as having a full-motion sim. In fact, if you're a viewer standing at the back watching someone on the fixed-based sim, you still get that feeling in your head, don't you have movement even though you're not actually doing anywhere. And training regulations have moved on now, you only really need a full-motion sim when you need the fidelity and the cues of actual motion for, for landing, doing engine outstuff, emergency descents, the things that you'd feel on the real aircraft but add to the, we could see it in Lyrmenstead add to the stress level of it all really. You can't really do those in this type of simulator but it's very good for learning how to operate the aircraft, not fly it to the procedures,

22:20wheels which is our junior floors and patterns and getting used to all that stuff and a fraction of the cost of a full-flight sim. Yeah, and we're lucky to have one and an endorse that Vergey here which I'm hoping to go over and visit again soon but tap at North Danes. But yeah, I'd love to have one here in the garage. Get one bill to do it yourself. Well, all the aircraft parts you went belong for, you can build your own. So you can have it, you can have a VC 1011, triple seven, that's 300 sim. Yeah, I just need a door, need to get one of those doors. Actually, I did say an L1 door for Sally, the IL-E by, it's quite tempting from a 740. Of course, she did. How does that appear on your algorithm? Do you know what, can I just say actually on the subject of parts and aircraft parts, we're celebrating 15 years, our wedding anniversary is tomorrow.

23:21And I think if I, if I was to go out and purchase an L1 door for 740 now, that probably would be the last wedding or the anniversary wedding anniversary that I celebrate. So, well, I have to say that it doesn't normally stop you just, you're not going to be taking a bit of a punts on it. And then, you know, questions that are asked later on after the event. It might have fenced a triple seven window that's sitting here to my right was given to me by some very kind people who we had on the show. The only one I actually got that purchased was the TriStar window that's just over there. I really can't see Jim was saying, oh, Carl, you know, for your, for our anniversary, I'm going to buy you, you know, a throttle quadrant or another stage one laid from an R3211. Just doesn't happen. The one up here is enough. I think I could see my wife doing that though. She knows I'm that much of a nerd. Do you think she would buy an aircraft part?

24:25Perhaps I need to. Yeah, she was telling me to buy one of those flight boards the other day. She saw an advert for you know the one to let sure she wants to fly in over here. Oh, yeah. Matrix screen thing. She was actively egging me on to buy it. They're expensive though. I did see those online. There's a few about online, different ones. And they are quite expensive. They look, they do look cool, though, to be fair. Right, you're going to stick with you Andy for this next story. And actually, no, sorry, Nev, sorry, Nev for the next story. And when this news broke on the line, it did worry me slightly because I am quite a, or have been quite a heavy user of the, uh, standard part of this particular company on network. Yes, it's on the, the guardian dot com. And it says that Manchester London, Stastard and East Midlands airports have been hit by a cyber attack in which hackers access the data of about 8.7 million customers. The incident involved data relating to car park,

25:27lounge and fast track bookings and in airport, Wi-Fi signups. And the hackers obtained email addresses, phone numbers, vehicle registration numbers and post code said Manchester airport groups, which operate the three hubs. The company said that at no point has passenger safety or aviation security been compromised during the incident and operations at the airport were unaffected. The hacked system did not hold customers bank or payment details. I'm sure they're very grateful for that. Uh, in an email to customers, London, Stastard said, we would urge you to be particularly cautious of unexpected emails, calls or text messages claiming to be from us. We will never contact you unexpectedly to ask for, for payment or banking information. And we apologize for any inconvenience or concern this may cause. While the cyber attack hit the airports during the peak summer travel season and many families were flying back into the UK this week before the start of the new school year, 54 million passengers flew through Manchester,

26:31London, Stastard and East Midlands airports combined last year. While the Manchester airport group spokesman said that the company had it immediately contain the risk from the incident and was working with specialist advisors and taking appropriate steps to protect our customers and systems. We have informed and are working with the relevant authorities and at no point has passenger safety or aviation security been compromised. They said airport operations remain unaffected and customer parking services continue to operate normally. We would like to reassure customers that Manchester Airport group takes the security of customers information extremely seriously and we apologise for any inconvenience or concern caused. Laura Will's Dixon who is a part of law firm Gordon's said the scale of the attack was notable. Airport sell a number of services including lounge access, parking and fast track booking, she said. Wi-Fi access also requires customers to

27:32input their data and as a result operators will hold large amounts of customer data and this together with the increase use of technology only increases the threat of a cyber attack. The incident comes as pressure grows on suppliers and operators of national infrastructure to improve their cyber defenses. Well that's a very good point isn't it? To do anything at these airport or airport you have to log into their Wi-Fi and start putting in your data, your email address, phone number, your flight number perhaps, all sorts of things. So yeah data breaches, well we've seen it before haven't we? And I think the problem is it's it was just ongoing isn't it? We're going to get more and more of this stuff clearly. I've definitely seen an increase in spam emails never in the last few weeks hit in the inbox or emails that are blatantly not very good emails. Do you have a

28:35finite net when you go into your kind of insurance quotes and stuff like that? If you pop your your mobile number in you end up sort of having spam calls and stuff much more. Oh yes and also I'm still convinced that my phone is listening to me as well. There's no two ways about that. I've got several instances in the last year where I've received information on my phone that no one else could have wanted to have sent to me advertising and that kind of stuff in there. But yeah we just got to be I mean you can't be any more careful can you? In order to get onto these systems you've got to put in your email address in order to to come with their Wi-Fi for you. Yeah I think I've always stared clear on them but are VPNs the way forward when you're in that kind of situation? Possibly yeah I mean that that's certainly a contributory factor to help you

29:38but it's not completely infallible that's for sure. Right next story is from the business times.com American Airlines boost premium seating on the triple seven jets as upscale travel grows and we're talking earlier with Nev there about the B.A. Improving their seating. So American Airlines are adding more premium seats to their triple seven three hundred year aircraft use on long haul routes as US carriers increasingly chase higher spending travelers. The airline is also phasing out first class on the aircraft while increasing the number of business class seats. The US carrier which is expanding its premium offerings to improve profitability said the first retrofitted aircraft will begin commercial service on Wednesday of this week. So today from New York to Buenos Aires American expects to complete upgrades of all 20 of its triple seven three hundred sometime in 2027. The revamped aircraft will have 144 premium seats up from 116 under the current layout. The total

30:47percentage rising to around 44% from 38% that includes 70 flagship sweet business class seats with privacy doors. 44 premium economy seats and 30 main cabin extra seats. The Americans extra leg grim economy product. The triple seven three hundred ER has 52 business class seats. 8 flagship first seats. Americans top tier international first class cabin and the airline is eliminating flagship first as part of the retrofit with the product no longer sold on the triple seven three hundred ER flights for travel beginning November the 19th. Among the US big three US network carries American is the only one that still offers a separate international first class cabin. Americans said in 2022 at Faizou International first class because customers were not buying the product and removing it would allow the airline to add more business class seats that travelers were willing to pay for. The retrofit extends Americans bet on premium travel as it

31:48tries to narrow a profit gap with Delta and United. So the seats look nice I'm not going to lie they do look good and I think I don't know premiums becoming more and more popular now more I mean I generally tend to look up if we're going to go long haul I'll always look at the premium seats first with the airlines that I'm looking at flying with but I think it's the future now and their premium economy is going to be the new business affordable business class. Well it has and it's that nice sort of transition between economy and business isn't it and and there's actually darren points out in the chat room one day economy seats may be a thing of the past as they make no money on the long haul sectors and that's very true the only time that the airline makes money with the passenger counts is in the premium seats premium economy upwards. So the ability to put more business class seats in would be a good thing because as you just said in the article people aren't

32:50prepared to pay for the first class stuff anymore because it's just so expensive. Yeah having flown with America a few years ago over to the US and that was I think it was the old flagship business class suite that I was in it was love it's very nice very very nice very comfortable very roomy plenty of stuff plenty of space to put things with a lovely suite I've been interested to see what the new one looks like in the triple 7300 but yeah what about you and if you're if you're traveling long haul do you tend to scope out the premium seats rather than booking a straight forward economy seat. Never look at economy mainly business. Again as I'm sure I've said before for me flying narrowplains abustments holiday so I want to do it as much comfort as possible so I'll always aim if it's available for business obviously short haul Europe don't care sitting any seat probably economy but if I'm going long haul definitely business class it's just it's far better there we go right Andy can I stick with you for the next one and

33:56something that happened this week. Yes this is from airelltame.airroll and a latin airbus A320 runs off the runway during landing in heavy rain. A latin airlines Airbus A320 carrying 151 people run off the runway while landing in heavy rain at cascabell airport in southern Brazil on the 31st of August. The aircraft was operating as flight LA-3858 from south powlo to cascabell in the western part of peronastate when it left the paved surface at around 945 local time. The Airbus A320-214 registered Papa Romeo Mike Yankee Oscar came to a stop on rain-soaked ground alongside the runway with this landing gear partially sunk into the mud. Latam said 145 passengers and crew members were aboard everyone evacuated the aircraft safely and no injuries were reported. Heavy rain and thunderstorms were affecting cascabell around the time of the incident and weather observations showed thunderstorms and rain at the airport with visibility which used to less than two miles. Passage video shows the A320 completely off the runway and stuck in brown

35:01mud and standing water. Flight tracking data indicates the 320 landed on runway 15 and it slowed to around 15 knots when it began turning to backtrack along the runway. The aircraft then left the paved surface before completing the maneuver. Latam describes the incident as occurring during the final stage of landing but did not provide further details about what caused the aircraft to leave the runway. The airline said it's cooperating with authorities investigating the incident and assessing how to remove the aircraft. Now look at the images etc that we can see there. I wouldn't say it was backtracking the runway at all. That slid off the runway whilst it's been decelerating. Now heavy rain and I'm not sure if the runway is grooved there can obviously of course cause aqua planning at the correct sort of speed and no amount of braking or anti-skid braking is going to help in that scenario. The key is it needs to be below the aqua planning speed which it may not be able to do and they just lost control. It's good the aircraft is

36:01undamaged by the looks of it. It just needs a bit of a wash of the landing gear and it's even better that everybody's perfectly safe and well. Yeah I've got it. Also if you think that the all the aviation tires are grooved unlike a car tire, scoops also, they're only ever going to go in a straight line so it's actually optimised for clearing as much water as it can whilst going through standing water but even that may not be enough sometimes. Well it also depends on the state of those grooves as well because just like a car tire they get worn down and they can be worn down quite significantly before replacement is required and of course the less depth on the groove, the higher the aqua planning speed is so yeah it's very interesting but it's so glad everybody's safe. These things happen unfortunately. It's a taxi speed reduced and if you're when you're taxing in very wet weather on wet very wet service as always it's just

37:04the same as... No it's just the same max 30 knots in a straight line max 10 knots in the 90 degree turns stuff like that but you would slow it well I certainly would add taxi slow if I saw very flooded taxiway or something just to reduce the chance of skidding because anti-skid systems do not work at those slow speeds so you can skid around a corner quite easily. There we go. Now aqua planning or handbrake turns. Right, Nev are coming on to a story that I think when I found this when I thought this is absolutely something that Nev has to cover on the show especially after your last flot or brief recent. Yeah I could have written this story actually either but as I looked through it but I didn't but I do know I can see what's happened here so it's on the telegraph.co.uk and the headline says we've forgotten how to behave in airport lounges. Here's a reminder during peak

38:05holiday season everyone you encounter between airport security and the departure gate looks like a good reason to never fly again. Couples bickering, lads drunk on their fifth pint at breakfast, free range children running a mock, no fresh hell just the usual. Paying for business class or staying loyal to an airline just for status and lounge access is costly but there are times when you pass through an airport and it's so feral that you pour on a kidney to get through the sliding doors of a calmly lit sanctum and sit in silence with a glass of champagne. Increasingly however what's in there isn't much better than the inevitable weather spoons outside. The lounges are packed and rowdy. There are those same feral children running around the counters of sandwiches. There are half conscious groups lounging in pajamas. There are the irritating individuals taking three quarter sales on loudspeaker. Their voice getting progressively more amplified with each generously

39:12self-poured gin and tonic. Is there any telecom innovation more hateful, send a text or email quietly? Walk into a lounger e-throw and you usually spend 10 minutes trying to find an empty spot. Too many couples and families taking up twice the amount of seating that they are entitled to by creating an impromptu campsite with all their bags and coats. When you get to the concord room level of lounge access there's a matradite to take you to a table. That's the dream. Some things should be a given if you're lucky enough to have lounge access. A few years ago, Cathay Pacific published a detailed guide to lounge etiquette. Excuse me. Wearing headphones when using personal devices and keeping conversations low was close to the top but realistically it's rarely enforced in lounges anywhere. Cathay also reminds guests that you should keep your feet off the furniture that bare feet are not permitted and to use utensils at the buffet and not to take food away.

40:17Oh dear, well we could do a whole show on this subject, couldn't we? Yes we could. I think the overall theme, it's not just an airport lounge is, this is everywhere you go now and the people that run these facilities are not empowered to go into bat and challenge the people that are causing the difficulties and I can understand that to a certain degree because some of the people that you are dealing with are not as polite as us perhaps should I say. It's just a problem that's happened in any lounge, it could be a railway lounge of a mainline station but it's a real problem. I don't think this is just a UK problem either, this is worldwide issue isn't it? In the UK though specifically, there is one holiday company every year that says if you book your

41:23holiday with us now we'll give you entire family lounge access and this is why the lounges are overcrowded, packed out, people going crazy in there, I'll try to get into a lounge on Monday when I was flying out here and all three lounges at Edinburgh Airport were full, weren't taking walk-ins at all and I have to be honest, whoever wrote this is completely correct because I looked inside and thought I'm glad I'm not in there anywhere and went and paid some over ridiculous price for some fried chicken at the only place that had seats in the terminal but yeah I think we need to go down the route of, he's sounding very snobby now, go down the route of exactly as B.A. have done start up and the price of it, stop giving it away for free, then it'll get quieter in there and be what it's meant to be but that's just my opinion. I'm alright in the thinking there right, that to get access into the B.A lounge at Heathrow you have to be a B.A. customer and you have to have your gold or black old silver or your tier points or whatever you can't just

42:31pay £100 and go in the B.A. lounge at Heathrow. No, you have to be minimum of a silver member to get in there or by a minimum of a business class ticket. So that should sort of thin out reasonably never done. Well you'd hope so wouldn't you but that was not my experience at Edinburgh Airport the other day coming back. It was, yeah, Ferrell is a good description actually and again parents not taking control of their children and I've got two grandchildren, I love them to bits, I've got two kids that I love to bits as well that I seem to remember back in the day, back in the 80s and 90s that we didn't take an inonsense from them. I mean not that we would have brought them into a lounge environment but into what I would call public facing environments like restaurants and so on but things have changed and as I say I've seen a few occasions where some of the staff

43:34members have challenged the behaviour that's been going on and they've been met with some very unpleasant responses and they might say you know what we're not paid enough to take all of that so they don't go into bat in the first place and I have to say I don't blame them either. Put you on the spot, Neve, your favourite lounge. Oh probably the thin air one in Helsinki, nice and quiet, people know how to behave themselves in the few times that I've been there. Stockholm, Ireland, less so but no I think I would say Helsinki, Vanter Airport would be one of my favourite ones, the thin air lounge, yeah. How about you Andy? Concord Room, without a doubt definitely the Concord Room. Now you've got to be fairly well in the high and the tree order to get in that one I think Andy's

44:34at Gold. I think so yeah, Kim with the ticket and it was lovely in there, full Alacot, Atteable service etc, very nice. Honestly, very nice like that. The other half live, right next story comes to Maris Base Global news, actually before we move on, David Bone, Neve, I just noted in the chat room there, has made quite a good point. Yes, David says I used to be a lounge at Aberdeen regularly and the worry is not how busy it is but how quiet it is now. I can honestly see some of them closing due to the lack of use. It's an interesting situation and of course this was the whole thing with B.A. changing the way that they offer points was because the lounges were becoming too overcrowded and we did say a year ago it would take a year and a bit for all this to wash out and now it's becoming a problem. So obviously B.A. have to pay the airport for the use of the lounge and I've certainly seen

45:38situations where B.A. have not paid for the lounges and therefore people aren't being let in. So yeah, that's I'm bearing in mind that Aberdeen airport used to be part of the B.A.A. group as well British Airports Authority and it's a big facility there really or it should be. It's very popular with people going to them from Norway for example and other parts from there on but yeah so we'll see let's see what happens. Yeah, behaving the lounges, that's what we say. Aerospace globalnews.com FAA orders more rows for Boeing FAA orders Boeing 787 wing inspections over cracks that could threaten structural integrity. So the US Federal Aviation Administration or the FAA has ordered inspections of dozens of Boeing 787 Dreamliners to determine that

46:42my manufacturing problem could lead to fatigue cracks in a critical part of the wing structure. The new airworthiness directive covers certain 787-8-9s and dash 10 aircraft. The FAA says the cracks left undetected could grow until the primary wing structure is unable to withstand the loads it was designed to carry with potentially serious consequences for continued safe flight and landing. Only a small part of the world wide dream line of fleet is affected. The directive covers 17 US registered aircraft and 77 world wide compared with a global fleet of more than 1100-1787s. Boeing has said in a statement cited by the Seattle Times that the aircraft can continue flying normally and the directive AD 2026-17-02 was published in the Federal Register on August 27 and takes effect on October 1. It turns inspections that Boeing had already

47:47recommended to operators into regulatory requirements. This issue is particularly notable because it again involves the fit between structural components on a largely composite dreamliner Boeing has spent several years dealing with manufacturing and shimming problems on the 787, some of which previously resulted in lengthy interruptions on deliveries. The latest directive traces its origins back seven years. Boeing discovered the problem during an investigation back in 2019 when it infigned an outdated method of been used to measure shims during production according to a Seattle Times report. A shim is used to fill a small space between aircraft components before they are fastened together. These gaps are normal in aircraft manufacturing but they have to remain within tightly controlled engineering limits. In this case, Boeing's investigation found that some gaps at lower side of body splice plates may have exceeded those limits. The plates are associated with the lower outboard wingskins in the area where important parts of

48:51the wing structure meet the aircraft's center section. The gap alone is not the entire problemo. The FAA says excessive force may have to be used to pull components together during assembly. That creates additional stress around the faster hulls. Over thousands of hours of repeated pressurization and flight cycles, those stresses can provide the conditions for fatigue cracks to develop. Boeing has said the production issue itself has already been corrected and the FAA estimates the inspections could take up to 286 work hours and cost as much as $24,310 per aircraft for each inspection cycle. Across the 17 US registered dreamliners covered by the directive, that puts the maximum inspection costs at $413,270 per cycle. The figure does not include the cost of repairs if the cracks are discovered because the FAA said it did not have enough information to estimate these costs. Now, isn't this something they picked up on that documentary series that

49:55they've recently released? I'm sure there was a part of this program that focused on the force that had to be used to put some of these parts together. Yes, there was quite a lot of discussion about that, wasn't there? And the whistle blowing that went with it. Of course, the 787 is a carbon fiber aircraft as well. Obviously, fantastic from the point of view of weight saving and fuel burn and all the rest of it. I'm not saying this is because it's a carbon fiber aircraft. But there are things that may not have been realised during stress testing, especially with the number of cycles of pressurization and depressurization that aircraft have to go through. I'm not sure how they simulate that on the ground before the thing actually goes into full production, but it must play a part in it, I thought. Yeah, Andy, the thing that always gets

51:00me about these directives is you publish it a month before it becomes a regulatory requirement and you're seeing that this problem could lead to basically the wings breaking off. Why is it not immediate? Why are they not saying, right, these aircraft need to be stopped now and checked. There's not many of them really, is it? It's 17 in the US and 77 worldwide. Granted, there's the cost to that, but what is the cost worth if you lost an air for him? So it's just another part of this whole story around Boeing, the Dreamliner and all the issues that we saw in that program that just says to me, why are they not getting on top of this as soon as they're told by the FAA? I mean, even says, and they're Boeing has said, are these aircraft can continue to fly normally for now? Why? Just fix the problem. Did you see the documentary Andy? Did you get a chance to watch it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I watched it at the dick. Yeah, yeah, some very interesting things in there.

52:03Nav? Well, I'll just, you know, I'll just echo what Andy says. One of the problems was previously how cozy Boeing and the FAA were together without proper oversight of some things. But also Boeing going from a very, very successful and professional engineering company to some of the problems that they've highlighted in this and other things as well. So product quality has been a problem and quality control has been a problem. It would appear for some time. And this is now coming out where we're seeing aircraft that need to go back to the shop for expensive work. But as Andy says, why aren't they, why isn't there an immediate airworthiness directive to say, right, we're going to pull them out of service until they're fixed?

53:06I think the best thing that could happen to Boeing would be to de-list the company and stop cheers and profits, become an engineering company again, get your house in order and then reflought. There's too much focus on making money in this industry granted, airlines and manufacturers don't exist if they don't make a profit. But if you do not produce a product that's of high quality and of high safety, your reputation's done. And Boeing had a fabulous reputation for so many decades. Very true, Andy. Very well said. I'll get off my sort box now. No, stay on there. I mean, what better place to get on your sort box where you are now? I'm not sure the Boeing lawyers listened to our podcast actually, but we're not seeing anything that wasn't in the documentary. I'm not making some wild statement that I've just plucked out of thin air. I agree. And I also agree with Darren in the chat room when he says it all started when Boeing

54:07took over McDonald Douglas. I think that was a quite a big turning point in the company's fortunes after saying. Yeah, and the weird thing is it looked more like McDonald Douglas took over Boeing, the way that their management team sort of took over everything. Yeah. I'm going to stick with you for the next story, Andy. Something you popped over to us earlier on the week. A nice little story this. Yes, I found this at my favorite local airport, Newcastle International Airport. And it was 41 years ago. Super Sonic history was made on a routine domestic flight to Tainside. On the 30th of August 1985, British Airways used a Concord aircraft to replace the Schedule 737 on their regular return service from Heathhoughton Newcastle Airport. Unsurprisingly, every single seat on the upgrade of flight to Salt Lab within hours. The sudden appearance of the legendary Super Sonic jet was the result of a tragic event, which we talked about last week. Following the Manchester Air disaster, British Airways had to

55:10conduct immediate safety checks on their 737 fleet, leaving them without enough aircraft. So Concord was drafted in simply to maintain the daily flying schedule for Tainside commuters. While the iconic aircraft first visited the region back in 1982, seeing the futuristic delta wing swooping to Newcastle as a standard commuter replacement in 1985 was a truly unforgettable site for those luckily enough to witness it. Now, I also read a lot of the comments on this story that I found. And it turned out there's a lot of people who were on that flight who are in the comments. And they're all actually, a lot of them got phone calls from their usual travel agents that they use back in the day on this commuter flight to say, by the way, do you know it's going to be a Concord next week? Do you want a book or ticket? There's lots of people go, yes, yes, I'll take that ticket now. So that's awesome. It didn't go super sonic from what I read from some of the stories. It went at point name across the UK. So it must have been a little bit faster than the usual 50 to an hour long flight down to Heathrow from Newcastle, but pretty awesome.

56:16I don't know we talk about technical things to do with aircraft as you know, but actually operating the aircraft on such a short sector was quite a problem for them. I was speaks John Hutchinson about this years ago, about my Bay of Biscay trip that I did many many years ago. And actually, obviously, the aircraft is designed for, you know, New York or sorry London or Paris to New York with a flight time of three hours approximately. And of course, the key thing about the aircraft is centre of gravity and CG control. That is just a massive subject on its own. And the problem is, when you take off with 100 passengers, so that's fewer than a 737 would have on board. I've got fuel, obviously full fuel tanks. And you're taking off Heathrow with four afterburners lit. The CG starts to go very, very quickly in, I think it's a raft, isn't it? It goes. And you have to pump

57:20fuel forwards. And because of the speed of the aircraft and the rate of climb, it's only just possible for the fuel pumps to keep up with the climb speed of the aircraft on a short sector. And the sector that I went on, there was only 40 of us around the Bay of Biscay. So obviously, that's even worse. But even on a short sector to Newcastle with 100 people on board, and it wouldn't have obviously, you know, the full, anywhere near fuel, full fuel tanks on board. But it goes off the runway like a scalded cat. But yeah, centre of gravity controls are a real problem on the short sectors. And of course, during the opposite, when you're coming in for the approach at Newcastle. I imagine as well, because there was no procedures to do it non-afterburner tick off. It was always afterburner. It probably burnt more fuel to get airborne than the 737 did for the entire journey down to Heathrow. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, for you, for you bear in mind that when

58:25Concord was flying to the US, it would typically burn what, 86 kilos, something like that. Oh, sorry, am I right with that? Oh, sorry, 86 tons. Not exactly. 86 tons of fuel with its ability for having about a 98 or 99 ton capacity. But yeah, going just that short sector. And also, of course, it burns a lot of fuel at slower speed. So below 250 knots and below 10,000 feet, because of the Delta wing, it needs a lot of power to keep it going. Because there's no flaps or slats, obviously, in the aircraft. So it's quite a quite a expensive piece of work to do those short sectors. Can you imagine as a child being there that day, you know, you're with your parents or whatever, you're about to go onboard a 737, look outside the

59:27window at the gate and see Concord sitting there instead. That had been awesome. I was, I was eight weeks old when this happened. So I wouldn't have known anything about it. But I'd have been, if I'd been around six, seven, eight years old, I'd have been buzzed and I'd have been uncontrollable. I'd have been one of those feral kids in the lounge. That's what I would guess. And on the return sector, it would have set off all the car alarms as well. Around because that's what it used to do. So I'm definitely impressed in the call button and asking for a flight deck visit. Because back then you could that then, yeah. Yeah, but I'm guessing on that short sector, especially the flight engineer would have been working extremely hard. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. It's, I think the CG control and also because of the speed of the aircraft as well, even at speeds less than supersonic, obviously, which can fly over land. It's like spinning plates, I would imagine.

1:00:32They managed to get their full English breakfast in. It's very un-British airways if it didn't get to eat that. Quite. Oh, thanks for finding that story, Andy. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. My pleasure. Also Jason Trussell says in the chat room, he watched those John Hutchinson videos that we did again last week, brilliant and so interesting. I think that I have to say that the interview that we did with John thanks to Captain Nick as well was one of the most interesting ones that we've done so far. That's a eight-part series that we did, which is still available on YouTube on our website, from our playlist as well. So if you haven't seen it recently, go and take another look at it. It was absolutely fascinating to listen to John's stories, not just about Concord, but his flying career as well. And is one of the most viewed series on our YouTube channel, Nev? It is. Yeah. Right, Nev, you're going to pick up the last story here and is this the end of the 380 as well? Let's see. Sure. It's on aviation 24.BE. It says

1:01:37Quantis will begin retiring its 10 Airbus A380s from mid-2028, four years earlier than previously planned, as rising maintenance costs and parts shortages, increasingly undermined the economics of the world's largest passenger aircraft. The Australian airline said that the accelerated withdrawal should generate approximately $300 million, in net cash flow benefits between its 2028 and 2031 financial years largely by avoiding heavy maintenance expenditure. Newer and more efficient aircraft will replace the superjumpos. Well, Airbus of course developed the 4-engine A380 to challenge the Boeing 747 and meet forecast that growing traffic will concentrate at major international hubs. The full length double deck aircraft can accommodate up to 853 passengers, although airlines typically configured it with substantially fewer seats. Singapore Airlines introduced the

1:02:39type commercially in 2007. However, Airbus delivered only 251 aircraft before ending production in 2021, following weak demand and reduction in orders from Emirates. The A380 proved popular with passengers, but difficult for many airlines to operate profitably. And its high fuel consumption and maintenance costs combined with the challenge of consistently filling such a large aircraft, limited its customer base. More efficient twin-engine Y-bodies such as the Airbus A350 and Boeing 787, further weakened its commercial case. Well, Emirates remains by far the large operator of the aircraft with 116 examples, nearly half of all A380s produced and planned to continue flying the type into the 2040s. British Airways and Singapore Airlines each operate 12 whilst Luftwanzer, Qatar and Etihad each have 8. A Korean Air, ASEAN airlines and all NIP on Airways also will continue to use the aircraft.

1:03:42Although the A380 will remain prominent at major hubs for years, most operators are expected to withdraw it during the 2030s, living Emirates as its likely final large-scale user. I was a comment in chat room earlier on on the show. I think it might have been Darren was saying that one ought to happen with all the 10s at 10, 8 or 8 is at Connors, have one, they retire all these at 10, you just said on that, yeah, 10. What's going to happen with those when they retire? Who's going to snap them up? Are they going to go to the Boneyard? Are they going to be sold to Emirates? Or perhaps there could be some new start-up airline? I think that ship has sailed. I will guess that they will be parted out for spares, the probably far more valuable spares for existing A380 operators. Unless any of these frims are particularly illogical, then I think Emirates would

1:04:45snap them up. But yeah, like Nav says, they're going to be worth more parts to service the remaining fleet. And I do think Emirates are looking for dawner carcasses and all sorts of things like that now. I'm so glad that I've had the opportunity to fly a few times on the 3AE because it's going to get to the stage where you will actually have to go to the Middle East from Heathrow or wherever to utilize an all-going A3AE. Let's be honest, had it not been for the E-tops operations of Twin Engine aircraft and the reliability of Twin Engine aircraft? We wouldn't even be having this discussion because it wasn't that many years ago when Virgin Atlantic were doing their adverts saying about using four engines, four long hull.

1:05:46And that doesn't make sense anymore because of the economics of it. If this aircraft had come around 10 to 15 years earlier, it would have had a far bigger market share than it did. But yeah, wrong time. Now, I remember when it first announced, it was in like 96-97, something like that. It took a further 10 years before it actually ended up with an airline. It did its first test flights when I was at university, which was like 23-24 years ago. Now, I remember staying up and watching it on live stream, long before YouTube existed. Yeah, such a shame because it isn't awesome aircraft as a passenger. I love it. Yeah, definitely. With that curvature of the fuselage, if you sit on the windows, see you've got a bit more elbow room. Which is lovely. Yeah. Yeah, shame. We'll see what happens in the future. Right, that brings the commercial news segment to a close this week. And what is up

1:06:53next, Nev? Well, I'm surprised we've still got content going, but we have for the retro airline out of the week, we've got more to bring to you. And this week, we head back to the 1980s for an American airline double helping, where we look at some very cheap airfares and marvel at the airlines 34-minute turnaround time. American Airlines announced some very special fails to Chicago. $59 from Newark. $69 from LaGuardia or I-Slipp. Or take off to Detroit for $55. With low fares like these, your choice to Chicago or Detroit is clear. We're American Airlines, so special in the air. All right, guys, we've got a 34-minute turnaround on this one. Let's do it. It can be five below zero or coming down in buckets. It doesn't matter. It doesn't buy you

1:07:55another second out here. But time isn't everything. Getting the job done right here. Pass them just don't really see this. I'll leave back on your way, though. It's a rare moment when they see us at all, but not a second goes by. Then we're not looking out for them. There we go, Neve. What do you think of that? Well, I think it's optimistic. 34-minute turnaround time on a DC-10, isn't it? I think that was also in the dears before baggage-scritting, non-domestic flights as well. Quite, yes. Cheap airfares, though. That's quite impressed for those. I'd rather go to Newark and see if myself the $10 from LaGuardia. Well, yeah, that's a good point, actually. That $10 went along with the 1980s. 34 minutes. How many adverts did American Airlines, not American Airlines, all the airlines in America,

1:08:55pump out in the 80s? You've gone through so many of them, Carlos. We've been running this segment now for... Come, Blimey. A long time. A long while. I've still got quite a few more left. That's impressive. Yeah. The mostomerath from the US, that's been known before, a lot of the adverts are from the US. There wasn't... I mean, going back to the 80s, Neve, you obviously had BA, but there wasn't a massive amount of airlines in the UK back then who I don't think really utilized TV advertising there, like BA. Well, Neve was a different time, wasn't it? That's the thing. TV advertising is very expensive. And before the open sky agreement, there was only American, United, BA and Virgin that were flying across the North Atlantic back back in time. That was it.

1:09:56So that quite a monopoly on it. But as things changed, people need to be more competitive, obviously. But the Americans have always done a lot of advertising, because they've got so many more TV channels than we had back in the day. And still do now, probably. But yeah, it's a different time. It really is the way people are flying, the way they're using craft, the hubs that they're flying from. Everything's changed about aviation in so many respects in terms of the usability of it, I would say. Why don't you think airlines advertise on TV, Neve? Well, obviously, the birth of a live job, I say, on demand TV. There's really any airlines to advertise on. There's a few, but they're very short. They're 15, 20-second adverts. And it's because people know the airlines.

1:11:00They know who the low-cost carriers are. They know who the mainline carriers are. And they just go on to their favorite websites to look up the cheapest fairs or all the kind of fairs that they want. So actually, because TV advertising is one of the most expensive forms of advertising there is, it's very difficult to justify the return that you would get from that. So, yeah, I, and also, it's almost out of date now. That's not where people are getting their media from. They're getting it online. They're getting it on YouTube, Instagram and all the rest of it. So, traditional TV advertising, as it was, I'd be interested to talk to TV advertising executives to find out how they go about their business now with the online world that we're in. It's more that the holiday sites of the airlines that advertise now. Airlines don't advertise like that American Airlines on the airline. Oh, you can go from here

1:12:05to there. No, nowadays it's the pack of holidays, and it's two-eat-stjet-two holidays. It's easy-jet holidays. That's what they advertise. And like Neve says, if you want to get a flight, everybody knows the airlines and you go on the internet. So I think it's shifted more now towards the holidays side to try and especially pinch points in the air just after Christmas. Oh, you're going to need a holiday now. After the summer holidays, why don't you think about a summer holiday for next year? That's when they get them now. Not the actual flights. John Falk makes a good point in the chat room there, where he says that it's more paper-based ads. Yeah, I get that. In the big tabloid newspapers, there's quite big adverts and stuff like that. So yeah. I can't remember the last time I read a newspaper. God, never was as he's copied the telegraph, do you, Neve? No. I used to have my copy of the Daily Mail when I got on board a B.A. aircraft, but that was a while

1:13:06ago, obviously. And they don't do that anymore. No more newspapers on board, as you know, went down the jet bridge. That's all finished. The feudal sea of an alone from not carrying a lot of newspapers is significant. Yeah. These days when you used to get an end of the newspaper when you went on board. Oh, lie me. Right, Neve, what's coming up next? Right, we've got all that out the way now. And now on to the next part of the show, it's the military news segment. And the first through this week comes to us from Defense Industry.eu. And Boeing moves a second RF E7A wedge tail to Boscom down for next phase

1:14:15of military acceptance under Britain's three aircraft program. So Boeing has shown the second E7A wedge tail intended for the Royal Air Force in its final paint scheme after the aircraft arrived at Boscom down. The jet is now awaiting the next phase of its military control program. The converted aircraft completed its first flight from Birmingham on July the 16th. And it was then flown to London, South End Airport, where a program subcontractor applied the final exterior coating. Boeing transferred the aircraft to Boscom down in early August after painting work was completed. And the mark moves the later step in the acceptance program I'll process before the aircraft can be handed over to the Royal Air Force. STS Aviation Services is carrying out the conversion of all three British E7A aircraft at its Birmingham facilities. The program uses the 737-700 air framer as the basis for the wedge tail configuration.

1:15:19Britain agreed to source two of the three air framer from the civilian secondary market to reduce acquisition costs. And the third area RF aircraft is the only one being converted from a factory new 737-700. The second wedge tail designation Whiskey Tango 002 was delivered by Boeing as a 737-700 BBJ or Boeing Business Jet back in July 2011. It initially operated in the manufacturer's corporate fleet before changing owners several times. Boeing re-acquired Whiskey Tango 002 back in June 2019 and subsequently selected it for conversion into an E7A. Birmingham has also started converting a fourth aircraft which is intended for the US Air Force and is separate from the three aircraft in the RAFs program. So there we go an interesting aircraft as we all know with that will rather large radar sticking on its top there. But I love that picture though of those CFMs

1:16:23with those flat bottoms. It does look quite interesting but based on the dash 700, what do you think Andy? Wouldn't it be nice if they kept the BBJ interior for those RAF personnel? We don't have all that lovely walnut and expensive gold all ripped out for electronic warfare equipment. No I do like the 737. I like the 700 because it's a little stubby thing isn't it? No, stubby is the 600 but I like the 700. It looks great. I'm still waiting for my invite Andy to go in on board one and do some filming but just don't see me get that invite in. On what a wedge till? One day perhaps you never know. Right Andy you've got the next story and we're going to go back to an aircraft that I think will probably hit 100 for it gets even closer at time and yes I think it's going to go the same way as the B52. B52. So this is from aerospace globalnews.com

1:17:24and it's the super refueler marking 70 years since the first flight of the Boeing KC 135 Stratotanker. On August 31st 1956 the KC 135 took to the skies for the first time. Now seven decades later the KC 135 Stratotanker has been one of the most important aircraft in the history of the United States Air Force. Designed in the 1950s to refuel the next generation of jet powered bombers and fighters the KC 135 transformed aerial warfare by allowing aircraft to remain airborne for much longer periods and to operate thousands of miles from their home bases. What makes the Stratotanker particularly remarkable is its longevity. On all the first KC 135 flew in 1956 many upgraded examples remain in front line service today. Although the aircraft has been surpassed by newer tankers such as the KC 46 Pegasus the KC 135 continues to provide a large proportion of America's aerial refueling capability. The USAF currently expects the typed remained service since at least

1:18:28the 2040s. The origins of the KC 135 can be traced back to the early 1950s when the United States was rapidly transitioning from propeller driven aircraft to jets. The USAF's principal tanker was then the KC 97 Stratot fighter, a large four engine piston aircraft to arrive from the Boeing's C-97 transport. The KC 97 was effective but it had an increasingly serious disadvantage. It was simply too slow for the new generation of jet aircraft. Strategic air commands, bombers were becoming faster and more capable while fighter aircraft were also adopting jet propulsion. A tanker based on a piston engine transport could not provide the same level of performance as a jet powered aircraft. In 1952 the Boeing company began developing an advanced swept wing jet prototype designating the 367-80 commonly known as the Dash 80. The aircraft first flew on July 15th 1954 and demonstrated that large jet aircraft could be both practical and commercially viable. The Dash 80 would eventually provide the basic design for both the Boeing 7 or 7

1:19:34Dreamliner and the KC 135 Stratot tanker. The USAF immediately recognized the potential of design as an aerial refueling platform. In 1954 it ordered its first 29 aircraft from what would eventually become a fleet of 732 KC 135s. By the late 70s and early 80s the KC 135 was already an ageing aircraft yet the basic air frame remained at sound. The biggest problem was its original engines. The KC 135A was powered by four-pratton Whitney GF57 turbo jets. These engines were powerful for the era but noisy fuel hungry and maintenance intensive. The solution was an ambitious re-engine engine-ing program. Beginning in the 1980s more than 400 KC 135s were fitted with CFM 56 turbo fans producing the KC 135R and KC 135T variants. The changed dramatically improved the aircraft's performance, economics and efficiency. The KC 135's venture replacement is the Boeing KC 46 Pegasus,

1:20:36itself derived from the Boeing 767. The USAF selected the KC 46 program as part of its long-term effort to replace the ageing KC 135 and KC 10 fleets. As of 2026 the KC 135 remained operationally important despite its extraordinary age. The USAF's current expectation is the aircaft were a maintenance service until at least the 2040s. The real interest in the KC 10 was started before the KC 10 and lives beyond the KC 10. What an extraordinary bit of a kick. Having seen these up close and stuff of air shows they are incredible bits of kit, like you said, and just built like tanks. It's another one of those aircraft like the B-52 that was just built to go on and on and on and on. But re-enged, they obviously re-enged this from its original net and just continues to go and go. As I've signed to the team before we went

1:21:37live, we're lucky. I mean, you guys are probably the same, but here, because we've got Mildenhall just down the road, these are in this. We literally, every day, you see one of those coming over here on its way into Mildenhall. They're just always in the air, right here. It's cool. Every time I've been to Mildenhall, there's always been one in the circuit, training and doing bumping goers and they're quite good to watch. Because they don't half plant them on the runways. Well, that landing gear is very substantial. I'll just notice a comment. I don't know if you've got the chat right up there Andy. There's a comment there from David Bohn. Let me just see if I can find. There we go. He says, the only thing that could go on for us long as the Strato Tanger is the DFS style. I like that. Oh, dear. Do you get any of these around your neck of the woods, Nev? No, not really. No real US Air Force bases, very close to where I am. I suppose

1:22:47Brise Norton is the closest one where there's US stuff operates out of there from time to time. But yeah, that's the difference between the military and the commercial, doesn't it? The military ring these aircraft next basically in terms of getting service life out of them. Whereas in the commercial world, the manufacturers are very quick to go, right, it's going out of production, and we're not going to make it any more because we're doing it's commercially viable. That's the difference between military where you need stuff and commercial where it's nice to have stuff, I suppose. Nice comment, then, chatroom, Nev from Jason Trussle. Yes. So Jason says, had a great spot last Friday, I was indoors and heard that that engine noise and out of the door to see the B17 flying fortress, Sally B go to on route to the Clackton Airshow. Yeah, that's a very distinctive sound, isn't it? Yes.

1:23:48Yes. Nice to have got there. Lucky to see that as well, not an air show to see it just stem, tonight flying. So yeah, well done Jason. Right, that brings the military news to a close, but very soon indeed, in fact, very soon indeed, someone's off to the Jersey Airshow. Yes, I'm going to be going over to the Jersey Airshow for the podcast, and it's on Thursday, the 10th of September. So that's Thursday of next week. The show itself is between one o'clock and five o'clock at St. Auburn's Bay, and hopefully Carlos has got a picture of that as well, she's going to bring up. And as you'll see, it's an absolutely perfect sort of vista for an air display. If you want to know more about it, you can go onto their website, which is jerseyerdisplay.org.uk, and they are going to have some more information on the website,

1:24:49soon hopefully. There's no detail so far of what is being displayed, and it's all a bit weather and tech dependent as well of these days, of course. And we've been very fortunate in the past where the weather has been good enough, but sometimes there are technical issues with aircraft, and sometimes the weather is below minima as well. So it all depends on the day. What we are hopefully going to bring you is some information about the static display, which is over at the airport. And I've been in conversation with the organisers this morning to get some press passes for us to go and have a look and have a discussion with some of the crews. But again, that's yet to be confirmed. So I'll be talking to them over the weekend to see what we can do, but some hoping that we'll be able to bring you some coverage when I come back. And our good friend John Falk will also be there with his partner as well. So I'm hoping to see them and have some dinner with them on the Wednesday night also. So I shall bring back whatever

1:25:53of information I can for you next week after the air show has been completed. So let's keep an eye on it. But so have a look at the website jerseyadisplay.org.uk and that'll be updated. I would imagine over the weekend with what they're going to be displaying. Just look at the forecast, and they're for for there in Jersey. It's kind of a mixed bag, but it's looking that it's probably going to be okay for the for the air show. Yes, a little bit cloudy, but yeah, we just need to shift over slightly. Yeah. And then. Oh, also, John's just reminding me, it's dinner on Thursday, not on Wednesday. Yes, of course. I'm I'm flying in Thursday morning and flying back on Friday. I'd almost forgot them that because I don't fly very often these days. So yeah, and you never quite know what you're going to get with the weather there. Sometimes it's, do you remember when we were there last Carlos? It was. Yes, as love. It was looking very, very dodgy. Then just at one o'clock, just before one o'clock, the clouds parted and it became all manageable

1:27:00again. So, we'll have to see. But a very nice air show as well. We made some really nice people there as well, don't we? Yeah, absolutely. So let's see how we get on and let's hope the weather and the technical parts of the aircraft are all kind to us. We're going to start to wrap up the show, but Neve, a social media links where can everyone find out more about us online? Yes, if you want to know more about what we're up to, have a look at Facebook, X Instagram or LinkedIn, just search those platforms for plain talking UK. You can email the show podcast at plaintalkinguk.com and we've got a very active PTuk chat room as well. If you'd like to be part of that, please send us an email to podcast at plaintalkinguk.com with your WhatsApp number and I will add you to the chat room. So, very interesting stuff gets talked about in there. I must say, you can have a look at our website, www.plaintalkinguk.com and if you would like to subscribe to our YouTube channel,

1:28:02you'll get notifications when we go live and you can help shape the conversation of the show by joining us in the chat room. Just go to youtube.com and search, pardon me, for plain talking UK. As you mentioned at the top of the show, it does cost us money, real money to run the whole business and that's media hosting costs, website hosting costs etc. If you feel that you're able to contribute at all, there's a section on the website which says support us. If you click on that, it gives you the opportunity to donate whatever money you can afford to us via Patreon and PayPal. Just go to plaintalkinguk.com and all the details are on there. Thank you, Dave. Right, quick round robin and before we wrap up the show, let's see what's the team is doing over the course of the next few days in the weekend. Start with you Andy. What's obviously you are out of country at the moment but any exciting plan?

1:29:06Yes, I've been working here the past couple of days. I'm in the simulator in the morning again and then I'm going to spend the weekend in a lovely country park near my land called Munza. I'm going to go to the Formula One for the weekend which will be very pleasant and head home. So I'll be home next week and I'll be on the show next Wednesday as well. Excellent. We have a lovely time at Andy. Plenty of pictures and all that jazz. Oh yes, don't worry. You'll be inundated with me annoying you. Lots and lots of pictures. And Nev, what's going on? Nothing too major. Although I'm going to on Monday of next week, I'm going down to Olympia in London which is the big exhibition centre for the Plaza show. That's the professional light and sound associations show. If I can see some of my old chums down there and look for more pro audio products that I may want to buy. And so I should be down there for a few hours and having a beer or two with some of my old

1:30:07industry chums as well which will be nice. Don't forget to get some pens, Nev. Yes, swag. Pens are important. I couldn't agree more. And the tote bag, tote bags are one of those things I do love a tote bag. I'll see what I can do. Unfortunately, the quality of swag has gone down hill a lot in recent years. You don't get half as good as stuff these days, conventions and stuff never have noise. No, you're dead right. Yes, the cutbacks have even hit the marketing department as well these days. They're not as generous as they used to be, shall we say. Comment from John Falk in the chat room for you, Andy says, can you please wave a p2uk flag so that we can spot you on TV? I don't have a flag. Would if I steal a bed sheet from the hotel and use a black marker, would that do? I think any advertising is good advertising. And you said you're going to be here next week, Andy, not in a

1:31:09cell somewhere, but anyway, possibly. Oh, yes, do I. I'll be here. Well, we look forward to that, Andy. I look forward to that sheet blowing in the wind. Right. That is it. That's where we are going to bring the show to a close episode 613. Big thanks to everyone who's tuned in tonight in the chat room. Thank you very much indeed. And also big thanks as well to everyone who downloads the show every week. Because we know a lot of you do download the show as an audio podcast. So big thanks to you all for downloading and listening to us in your cars on your bikes or on your run or however you do. And don't forget to send us an email. We'd love to hear from you. Love some feedback. And that never will leave you to wrap up the show. Yes, thank you everybody for joining us tonight. We've really enjoyed your company in the chat room. And we'll be back on Wednesday next week, 7th look UK time in the meantime. Bye for now.