EPISODE 153: CLC CANDIDATE FOR NBA REGION 7 ELLIOT SIMMONS

0:00Brothers and sisters, welcome back to the hot house. We're rich. Array because I'm always in the hot house. Tonight we're not here to hand down endorsements. We're not here to make anybody comfortable. And we're certainly not here to give a candidate in our whole campaign commercial. We're here to ask questions because when somebody acts, let it go. Are you is to place their trust in them with someone ex to become a national business agent, they are asking for enormous responsibility. An MBA isn't just a title. When a branch is struggling, the MBA office matters. When a grievance reaches operation, that office matters. When a stew at needs training, that office matters. When management violates the national agreement and a local branch needs help fighting back, that office matters. And when it carries feels like no one's listening anymore, that office dam sure matters. My guest tonight says he's ready for that responsibility. Elliott Simmons is a table to let it carry a union representative,

1:06educator, fighter, and CLC candidate for MBA of region seven. He has made training, operation, contract enforcement, and membership participation central parts of his campaign. But tonight I'm asking Elliott to go beyond the campaign literature. I want to know the man. I want to know the fighter. I want to know what he's learned from his mistakes. And I want to know why a lot of carrier was never met Elliott Simmons should open up out. See his name and say, I trust this man with my region. Elliott, welcome to the hot house, brother. Hey, it's great to be here. It's been a minute, bro, but we made it happen. Yeah, we did. We made it happen. That's it, brother. Before we talk about elections, CLC region seven or national politics, tell membership who Elliott Simmons is. Well, first off, my name's Elliott Simmons. I'm in branch 957. That's Bismarck, man, Dan, North Dakota.

2:08I'm a city letter carrier, just like 99.9% of the people who were going to listen to this. I'm on table two. I know the struggles of being on table two. I'm on on that street 60 hours a week. You should see my shoes right now. I need new ones. They are bald. Wow. You went to USPS in February of 2015 as an RCA. What brought you into the postal service? Oh, so before I was working at the postal service, I was homeless. And I was living in a truck. And someone told me that I could deliver mail from the truck and make money for it. And I was like, okay. And I was given the opportunity to be in RCA. So obviously, RCA's, they don't make as much as city carriers where the town I was in working. I was only working one day a week because they wouldn't allow you to go to other cities because nobody

3:13needed RCA's because if you didn't know on the rules side, every route has their own stuff. So it's really hard to find work. In 2017, I had another financial difficulty. My second job I was working at a convenience store. They gave me the choice. They said, you can either work for the post office or you can work for us. I'm like, well, the choice was obvious. I want to work the federal job. I went to my postmaster. I said, hey, what can I do? How do I make more money? And she pointed me to the city craft. She said the city crafts words at she's like, it's a lot harder working. You're going to have to walk everywhere. But you're going to work at least 40 hours a week. They're going to send you everywhere. You're going to be dumped down with mail. But you'll make money. And I said, all right, I jumped into it in 2017 to May. Well, Elliott, just so you know, I started the job as an RCA too. I was an RCA when I first started the job. So me and you were brothers, man, we're really brothers. Eventually, you

4:14became a CCA 2017. What was that transaction like? And what did being a CCA teach you about the reality is facing city-ledic areas? So when I went and became a CCA, I went to an office called Lotseq Illinois. There's only four city routes. There is no T6. I was just me. I was the only CCA. So my responsibility was to cover the four routes their days off. And if someone was on vacation, I had to cover that too. Now, I figured out really quick that they expected me to work long hours. And I mean long hours. And they were going to send me everywhere to work. We had a day, and I remember it was November 12, 2017. I finished delivering in my town at seven o'clock at night. And I got sent out to another town called Gilman. They had two routes. No, the mail got delivered. And they expected me to

5:19deliver the full route while the postmaster delivered the ox. I was out there till two o'clock in the morning. I had someone brand gun out wondering why I was flashing a light into their living room. And that's the reality for a city carrier, especially when you're a sub. I didn't have uniforms. It was a struggle to get them to give me my allowance. I had to file a grievance over it, which is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to file a grievance to get my uniform allowance. You know, CCAs should be just like everybody else when it comes to uniform allowance. They should just automatically get the uniform card. I agree. I said I've happened to go through this approval process. I agree. But that man who came out thought that I was peeking in his windows, I could not blame him for coming out with a gun and wondering what I was doing. Right? Like it would have been fairer on that. Right. I think a lot of people, I know that's a very specific circumstance, but we have a lot of people out

6:26here who don't have uniform allowances because either the uniform allowance isn't enough or they just never have gotten it. And they don't look like city carriers. And there's people in the public who question whether or not they're thieves. I've had someone ask a CCA that, are you a thief? Are you stealing from my mailbox? And he had a satchel on it. Wasn't enough. Wow. You have described yourself proudly as a table two carrier. How has being a table two carrier shaped your view of the NLC and economic struggles facing younger carriers? So first off, I didn't personally have to go through this. I had to witness it because I, I, I, when I was it, when I was this, you know, a CCA first starting out, I wasn't married. I didn't have any children. But I had to see my brothers and sisters who were, who did have spouses and had children and they could not afford it. I have a sister in my off, my previous office,

7:30who couldn't afford to send her kid to child care because she didn't make enough money. It was cheaper for her to stay at home and call off sick for sickly dependent care than it was for her to actually take the care kid to daycare. And I mean, that's just ridiculous. We should be able to afford child care. We should be able to afford to work. You know, what I'm describing, they did say that about people who are in poverty, people in poverty working minimum wage can't afford to do that. City carriers shouldn't have to worry about that. You know, we have carriers who can't afford to pay their rent. I was lucky. I was working in an area and I'm still working in area that's low cost, low work costs of living compared to some places. You know, I'm not in California. I'm not in New York City, right. But rents still $1,500 a month for a two bedroom apartment. That's a whole check for me and I'm in the middle of the steps. Yeah, that's that's

8:32ridiculous. You said that within three months of becoming a CCA, you discovered a passion for representing what happened during those three months. Oh, man. So when I first transferred into the city craft, I had three people approached me, the three regulars, three or the four regulars, I should say approach me and say, Hey, do you want to become a union rep? And I said, absolutely, I'll do it. And I thought, wait a minute, why are you asking me to be a union rep and then come to find out they're like, Oh, no, all three of us are retiring and the other girl doesn't want to do it. And someone's got to do it. So I'm like, Okay, we'll all do it. And initially, I only started out with my own office. But then I started getting phone calls across my branch at these little or offices who did not have any representation whatsoever and never had representatives, Asian, never whatsoever. And I said, You know what? I got to do this. I have to get involved. The first grievance I ever filed was for a CCA and her name was Natasha. And that's relevant.

9:36She worked 14 hours, which is ridiculous. And I went in, I filed a grievance, I said, Hey, you're going to pay her an additional 50% for everything that she worked beyond the 11 and a half. And management said, Fine, we'll do it. That was my first grievance. It was the day I filed that two days after Columbus day. It's something like you always remember. Yeah, right. The first time you do stuff, like, you know, I just remember because of the day after a holiday, she worked 14 hours, the next day I filed the grievance. It was the first grievance I ever met on the agree to pay 50% and ironically enough, I was a little, I was a little aggressive back then just like I am now. I gave them two weeks to pay it. They didn't pay it. So I called my president. I said, Hey, what do I do? I'm a brand new student. I don't know. And he says, Oh, you got to go in there. You go in there today and you file that grievance. And I said, Okay, and this is like six o'clock in the morning.

10:36I make a phone call. The postmaster is not there. Supervisor's not there. It's a clerk. I say, Hey, tell them that I'm going to be there at 830. She didn't tell them. I showed up at 830. I clocked into my office, worked for an hour, clocked out, got my car, drove over this other city, knocked down the door and said, Hey, we got a meat because you weren't you're non-compliant with the grievance settlement. Oh, that she was mad. She was yelling that postmaster. Oh, God, she was not happy with me for just showing up. Why didn't know that she needed to know that I was coming. You know, I was a brand new steward. How am I supposed to know this? This is my first first time dealing with non-compliance. And I went in. I said, You're going to pay it. You're going to pay it now. And you're going to, I'm going to watch you do it. And I watched her. She went into gas and she put the extra 50% in. And I thought everything was all set and done. Later that day, I got a call from my president. What the hell did you do? What do you mean? Did you just like run in there and file that grievance

11:42without telling them? Yeah, that's what you told me to do. Oh, man, I'm going to be hearing about this for months. They want you fired. I'm like, good luck with that. Well, Elliott, let me actually stop. Do you send a little aggressive? Is that what you call it? A little aggressive? I mean, I call just a little aggressive. Management has described me as being overly aggressive when it comes to filing grievances. That's actually in an arbitration where the arbitrator actually quoted them. Who taught you how to become a union representative? Oh, it's got to be Brian Johnson, the president of Branch 407, King, Keele and I. Everything that I've learned on how to be a steward, I learned from him. And everything on top of what I've learned from him, I had to teach myself. Because, you know, most of the time, you don't have a book that tells you how to be a rep. I've not yet defined a book that tells you how to meet on agreements. They'll, you know, any of these trains, you look,

12:46they'll tell you how to fill out the 80 190. They'll tell you how to request information. But they won't tell you how to actually act in that meeting. And that's something I had to learn. And it's actually one of the things I focus on in the podcast I do with cold billboards. Teaching people how to actually do the job, not just the information related. Well, well, maybe that's something we'll talk to Paul about when he becomes the director of education. We'll get him to create something like that. I hope so. I really do. What mistakes did young Stuart Elliott Simmons make that today's Elliott Simmons would never make? Oh, man. Well, obviously that one just described running into that office. I don't know. That door is saying I'm here to file a grievance because you didn't pay. I don't do that now. Now I get them a heads up for you email that I'm going to come over. Hopefully they answer if they don't, I give them 24 hours. And then I just show up. I gave them a

13:50proper notice. That's right. That's one. Something else. Always, I've learned to have other people read grievance settlements and remedies before I have them signed off on. Even even now, you know, I've been doing this since 2017 pretty heavily. So I'm at the nine-year mark. I still have people read my remedies because I'm how impactful they really are. Sometimes I wish they'd have some of these RAAs and NAAs and the STEDB reps actually have somebody to read their remedies. Yeah. In December of 2023, you're transferred to, I can't say this right. Not the code of branch 957. Why the move? I got married. I met my wife. I met my wife through the Fremade Arbitration. And, you know, I met her a couple of times over a course of a couple of months. And I said, you know what? She's the one. She's the one I'm marrying. I love her.

14:55Grandpa said, if I ever found a girl as good as grandma to marry her immediately, and that's what I did. That's it, brother. That's it. You listened well, brother. What the changing branches teach you about differences between local unions and how representation can vary from one location to another? Oh, man. I learned so much. I learned that not only does everyone do everything differently, right? Because that's pretty obvious. I learned that some branches are not transparent about what they do. Some branches do not communicate very well with their membership. I discovered that some branches actually elect people because they're light, not because they're capable. And I experienced those differences in both of the branches. It was actually kind of shocking to me. You know, the biggest shock wasn't the difference in branches. It was the difference in regions for me. I don't know if you're going to ask me about that. But there is a stark difference between region three and region seven.

16:03Region three, they care about the training. The NBA has the stewards back, regardless. If they're right or wrong, it might be a little side combo like, hey, just so you can mess up, but I'm going to have your back anyways. And actually taking things to arbitration and trying their damnedest to win. That is the difference between seven and three. And I've sent it multiple times. You don't know what you have until you don't have it anymore. I've lost that particular part of region three when I came out here to region seven. Yeah. You have a podcast with co-billums. Tell us about the podcast and why you decided to get behind the microphone. So the biggest thing like I described earlier, we started the podcast because there's no one actually telling these branches, the newer stewards, the brand new presidents, how they're actually supposed to do the job. And that's really

17:08what it comes down to. When I, you know, I'm on the foray arbitration discord if you're not in there, get in there. And I, we were talking to people every single day about how they do things. And I'm telling you, there's so many people that were not handling the formal step A right. There were people who were emailing management their contentions for the formal ampule. And I'm like, don't do that. Why would you give them arguments before you actually meet at the formal step A? All they're going to do is have someone from labor, read it and counter them. And they told me that's just the way it's always been done. Nobody ever taught me any different. Or, well, this is, I just figured this is what they want. You know, is, you know, I just don't understand what I'm doing. And that's why we got into it. Like we're going to actually start educating people on how to do the job. As podcasting changed how you communicate with carriers who disagree with you.

18:09I'm taking a moment to think about that. I'm going to say no. All right. Has anything you said on the podcast ever got you into trouble or coise controversy with management or the carriers? What everybody would, I've definitely gotten yelled at by management. I had an offer when I first, like, we're getting into the trenches of formal A where I had someone from labor contact me and say, hey, man, we got a job. If you want to be the labor rep for this area, it's 125,000 a year. And I'm just like, yeah, I don't feel like selling my soul. So I'm not going to do that. And he called me after I started doing the podcast and he was all mad. He's like, how dare you teach these people how to actually do it. I was like, well, someone's going to teach them. It's going to be me. Anything. Yeah, I got myself in trouble with my podcast quite a few times.

19:10You know, the carriers I've had carriers reach out and say, who are you to tell people how to do this? You've only been doing this at that point. I think it was like eight years. You've only been doing this for eight years. You don't know what you're doing. And I'm just like, really, I have 100% win rate arbitration. I think I know what I'm doing at the formal step A. Yeah. You know, some of these senior carriers really believe 10 year means a lot. It doesn't mean, it matters if you have passion, you know, you can't, it can't, like, you know, you got to care, you know, it doesn't matter yet. Got 30 years on the job. If you don't give a shit, you don't give a shit, that's the bottom line. You know, you can know everything about every contract, every manual, every labor board decision. You can know everything. But if you don't have the fire in your soul to actually use that information to fight for carriers, you're not helping.

20:18Playing in simple, you're not going to be a help. I would rather have the inexperienced steward that I can teach and explain and help help them learn who's got that fire than to have the old dog who wants to sleep in the couch all day and not do a damn thing, but somehow they know everything in the book. I want, I would route, I want the fire. I want the passion, the fire, the fight. Right. The blood, some people call it bloodbust. I want the bloodbust. Yeah. I'll with you on that. What's something you've said publicly that you later reconsidered? There's probably like a dozen things that nothing comes to the top of my mind right now. Um, because obviously I'm human, I make mistakes. I have definitely said things on even the

21:20podcast where we found it later on. It was incorrect. So I like, Hey, I got correct myself. I found out that I was wrong. I want, yeah, I'm going to go with that. Nothing really comes to mind. Okay. Fair enough. Nothing distinct. Some union leaders don't like podcasts, Facebook groups, YouTube channels, and independent union media because they cannot control the conversation. Do you believe independent union media has made any old senior leadership more accountable? Absolutely. I want to touch base on that. Gatekeeping is a real thing. And it's not just our union. It's, it's everywhere. It's, it's human nature is to keep people out of your group. I am absolutely against gatekeeping. I want to open the gates. I want the flood to come in.

22:21One of my biggest talking points is that in my region, the NBA position is basically just handed down to an RAA that the NBA wants to give it to. You know, these things got to stop, right. I want to open these floodgates. We're going to be trained. Everybody. There's going to be at least a dozen people who could run for NBA by the time that my first term is up. And they're going to be qualified to do it through do my job as the NBA because I want that competition. The competition makes you better. Yeah. Complicency makes you lazy. Lazy's bad reputation is bad representation for city-letter carriers. And there's too many people who don't understand that. The people who don't want the podcasts are afraid of losing their jobs or they're afraid of actually having to work. Or afraid of being held accountable. Or being held accountable. Well, I mean, well, I mean, you actually have to work. You know, how are we holding the accountable? We get them out. That's

23:22right. That's right. You know, do your job. You're out. That's it. And this, that's what, that's what social media is doing. This is how we communicate now. It's no longer, I'm going to pay somebody to write an article for the postal record. It's no longer, well, hey, maybe we'll send out an amaler telling people what's going on in the region or the national. It's no longer like that. Now we got social media and we got to spread information as fast as we can and evolve as fast as we can. Yeah, absolutely. Where is the law between between legitimate criticism of union leadership and simply tearing the union apart? I would say the moment that you are advocating for membership to leave the union because the leaders aren't doing their job, that is the line. We should not be advocating people to leave. In fact, we should be advocating more people to

24:25join back to support the reform movement to actually change what's going on in our union. You know, our union, I kind of laugh every time I hear about the CLC's dividing the union. I laugh at that because the people who are saying it, haven't realized that for the last 20 years, we've been falling apart at the bottom. The city letter carriers have just been so disinterested from poor representation because of poor representation. And the guys at the top have no clue because they're not on the workroom floor like we are. And that's really what the point, you know, we need to help. I should be held to a higher standard as the NBA. You should be held to the higher standard as a president of a branch. I have stewards in my branch. So I say, hey, I'm at a higher standard than you are, but you're at a higher standard than the carriers

25:26because you're actually paid to represent them. And I'm paid to represent you. Right. So we have to keep, you know, we have to hold each other accountable at the top. Right. Right. It's for the carriers because again, if you're not held accountable, you're not going to do your job. Right. Well, Elliott, no, no, we'll get serious. You began working for USPS in 2015. There are people in region seven who have been letting carriers and union representatives for 20, dirty or even 40 years. Why are you ready to lead them? Because I actually ran because I actually want to do it because I'm actually pointing out the issues that we have and I'm standing up. That's why I'm ready to lead them. There's people throughout the region they've talked to me and they've given me support and they've given me

26:28who have been in the region for 30 years and point said, oh, it's been this bad, you know, for the last 15 years. And the first thing I think of is why didn't you stand up? And they always said because it wasn't for me, I wanted to find somebody who could do it, who could stand up. And you know what, I am going to stand up because that's who I am. I stand up for senior letter carriers. I stand up against those in charge. My dad always told me that I had issues with authority. And he's right, especially when that authority is abusing working class people. I'm going to stand up for working class people. You know, I wasn't initially going to run, but I just kept on feeling this tug in my chest, this pull like pulling me, telling me, your time is now, you got to do it. And you know, I don't know if that's faith, I don't know if that's God, but I know that's my passion. And that's why I'm ready because I felt the tug and it's

27:34going to happen. That's a great answer, brother. What specifically qualifies you to become a national business agent? The fact that I'm a member in good standing, the fact that I care about city letter carriers, the fact that I've spent every moment of as being a city letter carrier learning about our contract and actually fighting for city letter carriers, the fact that I care, the fact that I hold myself to a higher standard, and the fact that I welcome the competition. I want to see better for everyone in my region, not just my branch, not just my office, not just me, everyone in my region. Hell, everyone in the nation, I want every other region to look at us when I'm running this thing to say, damn, why don't we have an Elliott Simmons as an MBA? Because it's going to influence people. When people see leadership, they come,

28:37the other leaders will come out and say, hey, he's right. You know, part of the reason why I got so involved in the unions, because of Corey Walton, I heard his podcast. It was recommended to me at a state training in Illinois. Hey, listen to this guy talk and I listened to him and I thought, man, he's just like me. He's what Charlie Miller describes as a meat grinder. He wants to file grievances and that's what I'm all about. I want to keep on filing grievance after grievance after grievance and I was inspired to come out and lead and look at me now. I'm running for business agent. Wow, five years later in a region that I wasn't an ad originally. That's crazy. Tell me what an MBA actually does because if you're asking for the job, I want to know whether you understand the entire job, not just the campaigning part. So I'm going to make it simple for the people who are listening. I'm just going to listen, listen, NBA's got to make sure that the impasses from B

29:45are appealed to arbitration. They have to assign advocates to the grievances that were appealed. They had they have to work on the scheduling for the arbitrations. They run the NBA's office as and they delegate duties. They're responsible to go out to offices and actually assist where needed. And I will be entering offices. You will see me not just the big ones. You'll see me in little ones too. I believe that they're also responsible for training and making sure that our files are the best they can be and that those files started informal and formal A. So we're going to get on top of that. They're also responsible for ensuring that those below him or her at the regional office are doing their jobs. I think I covered every. Yeah, I think you covered that. That's it. That's

30:46good. We're pretty broad. There's obviously more specific things. Well, you can, you know, you can. I mean, we all have a light, but it's a lot more involved, but that's pretty much the bulk of it. What experiences do you have? Hiddly, difficult grievances. So the most difficult grievance I've ever had to deal with was a, when I've referenced it before, it's always the joint statement on violence and behavior grievances because 99% of people know when they did something wrong and they want to protect themselves from getting in trouble. So what does management do? They lie. You know, most of the time, management, launch, oh, yeah, about that. Hey, in my experience, most of the time on basic violations, management doesn't rely because they thought they were right. But when it comes to something like a joint statement on violence and behavior, when it comes to sexual assault, sexual harassment,

31:46they know that they messed up and they lie. And you have to actually get out of them in through the interview process, the truth. And sometimes you can't get it. Sometimes you can. You have to talk to people who might not like you. I had a situation where a supervisor invited a health benefits person, some outside insurance bowl, come on to the workroom floor to sell it. I think it was like cancer insurance or something. By the way, it's illegal. If it happens, please grieve it. It's solicitation on the workroom floor. They're not allowed to do that. We have our own benefits. But I was trying to find out whether or not the supervisor was getting a kick back because a lot of times they are. Yeah. And I had pulled a whole bunch of rule carriers in and I started asking them questions. And the first thing he did was he, they went and talked to that supervisor and told them, I think he's trying to get you arrested. I wasn't. I was just

32:46trying to find out the truth. And he called the police and I was escorted out. Because he was asking a question about whether or not the supervisor was promoting the sale of this product on the workroom floor. And he was, I might add, he was actually doing that. And thankfully, the city carriers who were actually willing to testify all all said, oh, yeah, no, he was doing that. We don't know why. And I couldn't get the supervisor to admit he was receiving money. I'm I'm thinking he was receiving money just based on how hard he was pushing for it. We ended up settling to undo all the all the bad stuff that happened. And they definitely aren't allowed to kick me out of the office anymore. And he wrote me a letter of apology. And I still have it. Oh, that's one. That was that was hard for me because you have an entire office except for the city carriers in the office who thought that I was going after their favorite

33:48supervisor, right? And I don't like confrontation with craft employees because they're just like me. We're working people. We're not EAS. They're not EAS. And that to me was always hard. Deal with management. I've always had an easy time with that because they they just are what they are. I know going in what they are. What experience do you have at Fortal Step A beyond? Oh, man, formal A, I believe I am over 5,000 grievances at formal Step A. I've appealed hundreds. Most of the time you get them settled at formal A. Not maybe not anymore. I think people still have a hard time settling. I really don't have a hard time settling because management doesn't want Step B or above to know what they've been signing off on for the last two, three years. But, yeah, I've have a lot of experience at formal A. When it comes to Arbitr, I don't have any

34:51Step B to experience. I've never been at Step B as a rep. When it comes to arbitration though, I've been a witness in half a dozen grievances that I did on my own. I've helped prepare witness testimony. I actually prepared questions for myself, which was fun because that's what they do in Region 3. They have an experienced advocate who will actually sit down with you, an experienced formal A and start training them on how to do openings and closings and witness and all that with their own case files. Because that's what they want Region 3. They want better case files from formal Step A. And what better way to do that than to give them some arbitration experiences, what an advocate's actually looking for. And that was a huge impact on me. It really helped me out a lot. And beyond my own personal experience, I have looked over hundreds and hundreds of files for other members who are just asking for help. Like, hey, what do you think about this?

35:53Hey, what do you think about that? I've asked for advice from advocates like, hey, can I look at your stuff? You know, if, hey, can I write an opening for you? And can you give me some critiques based on the file? And they say, oh, yeah, sure, go ahead and I do it and I get critiques. I've never obviously ever done my own arbitration as an advocate. But again, the gatekeeping, they won't let me TA. They won't let me learn advocacy formally. So they're not going to let me be an advocate. Yeah. Have you ever watched a grievance that you believed you should have won? And what did you learn? Absolutely. And you want to why I learned from it? Yeah. People at Step B aren't always as educated as they should be. People at the regional office are not always educated as they should be. There's definitely a lack of communication. I had a case where it went out of the region.

36:54It went to a different region. And I had a carrier who put it a hole down in the hole down star on Thursday. Management didn't want to star month. There's a one star at a month's Saturday. I said, hey, you got to pay him the 16 hours because they didn't work him Thursday or Friday. They gave him an S days. It was a CCA. He wasn't at 40 hours that week. And it went to Step B. And I lost because management wrote some some bully little the carrier requested to have it start on Saturday. Even though I had a statement in there saying that the carrier put in for the hole down on Wednesday and wanted to start on Thursday, it was told no. And I still lost. So, you know, I learned that people at Step B don't always look at the files. People at Step B don't always know what they're actually doing. But then again, I can't expect people to know everything. You know, I got a diary behind that, Elliot. I think there's a possibility.

37:55You know, I'm not going by facts or going by opinions. I'm not, you know, please, by all means, the audience out there don't go all. It's just my opinion. I don't have no facts. I got no evidence on this. I believe that some of these Step B decisions, the management partner is writing up the settlements and a union guy is signing off on it. Oh, absolutely. I don't even think they are fucking reading what they're signing because they don't get tell. They don't read the file. They don't even read the decision. They don't read the file. But let me tell you, tell you Richie, they don't read the file. I had a conversation with the Step B rep. And I asked them, do you actually read my contentions? Do you read about the arguments I wrote? And he told me no, he looks at the the content list in the front and basis his decision based on what's in that list. And I'm like, you don't even read my arguments. You don't read management's contentions. They're like, no, we see what's on there. We read the issue statement. We believe that that

38:59stuff's actually in there and we make a decision. And I'm just like, so you're not doing your job. Well, I mean, we have hundreds of cases that we have to work on. I'm like, I don't think that matters, man. You're making a decision that's precedent-setting. You should at least, unless you're ruling everything that I'm asking for, you should be at least reading the file. You could have changed that when you've come at the end. Oh, absolutely. That's definitely changing. Yeah, you're definitely changing that. That needs to be all over the place because this step B guy I was talking to. He's not even from seven. He's not from three. He's from a different, he's not from four. He's from a different region. And I had that conversation. That's that's the great thing about being on the internet is that you get to talk to all these people across the nation and get their experiences. But it was very eye-opening when he told me that. Yeah, and I believe it, too. I believe it because what's some of these decisions that we're getting like I scratch my head. I like the issue statement was epic. How the fuck do we lose this? Like, it doesn't even make sense.

40:05Well, I mean, you know, sometimes they make up their own little little thing in their head. Decision already, too, just like seeing what who who sent it up. Yeah, because I agree with you on that. I definitely agree with you on that. I don't know if you guys have had for trains, but I've had trains before the step B people are telling you, well, don't include J-cam language. You don't need to include this. You don't include that. And I'm just like, excuse me, I'm preparing a file for an arbitrator to look at. Not for you to look at. Well, we know what needs to go on. No, you don't. What I put in the file is what needs to be in the file. That's it. And don't get me on a grievance. You're the one that makes the decision what goes into. Yeah, that's that's my baby. Yeah, tell me not to put J-cam language in there. Yeah, that's always in there because I want the arbitrator to actually be able to read it. Yeah, and if you don't put it in there, then you can't use it later. So I mean, you have to put it in there. You know, the advocate might be able to introduce it later, but the arbitrator is not going to have that copy of the in that hand while they're presenting the case because I know that they're looking at that file.

41:08Right. What is the biggest grievance victory you've been involved with and why was it important? Oh, so Mike Karriff makes reference to it all the time. It's the mantino pentology is what he dubs it. Those were five arbitrations in which management failed to pay out a grievance settlement. And then we had an agreed upon $25 per day already. And four of the five decisions agreed with the union that they got they have to pay the carriers $25 per day. And the fourth one didn't it. I should say the last one didn't, but then he went on to iterate and actually attacked me and attacked the advocate and attacked the union for for filing a grievance over non-payment. And it was huge for me because one, this is a five-rowed office in which I filed almost 150 to 200 grievances related to failure to make payments in a timely manner. And if they would have settled

42:13that formal A with me like I wanted to, it would have been about a million dollars split between the five carriers. So imagine $200,000 each. By the time it finally got to formal, not formal arbitration and management's like, hey, we probably should pay these. We're losing these grievances. The grand total was just above $6 million. Wow. And I know it's not all about the money, but the decisions were where the impact was because an arbitrator tried telling us, and this is the one who ruled against us. I still want, he sustained my decision. He's like, oh yeah, they failed to make that payment in time, man. The unions, right, we're just not paying the $25 per day. But you know, that one, he attacked us for setting precedent for formal A. He attacked us for asking for an escalated remedy. And all the other four decisions supported us. And the fifth decision,

43:16the last one, which was the latest OB award, OB said, oh no, the union at the formal set A can set precedent. And the arbitrators need to respect that. That's huge for the nation. That should be in every single monetary escalation grievance, especially if you're quoting a precedent setting formal set A, because OB said it right. The parties have the ability to set precedent and we should respect that. That's huge. That is a file, that is a case grievance arbitration that I hope is used for the next 100 years. That's, that's an amazing story. What is the biggest weakness in your resume for MBI? The fact that I've never formally worked in the MBA's office. Okay, Baronoff, why shouldn't the membership choose someone who will considerably boy years

44:16of experience that you? I want the members who are listening to look at the last 10 years and ask yourself, are we better than we were 10 years ago? The person I'm running against has not had a positive impact on this region. And I say that truthfully. If I'm not going to say he had a negative impact, but our decisions are getting weaker, our monetary escalations are going backwards under his leadership. And that's what I want people to look at. We're getting worse, not better. Take a chance to someone who actually wants to make things better and actually has a plan to make things better and has the passion to do so. Then the person who doesn't. I've yet to see a platform come out for my opponent. I've yet to hear anybody tell me about his

45:23speeches that he's done across the region about his campaign. I've not heard that yet. I'm waiting. I know it's going to happen because I know there's big branches that I'm going to do that he's going to be there to speak as well because he's not going to miss an opportunity to actually talk to these big branches. But you know where you're not going to see him? You're not going to see him in the small branches. You're not going to see him in my not North Dakota. You're not going to see him in Morris, Minnesota. You're probably not going to see him in two fall South Dakota. You know, the big branches are obviously they have the biggest voting impact. But region seven is not just the big three miniapolis st. Paul Milwaukee. They're also the smaller branches. The branches who don't have any representation. The branches that you're trying to convince to be absorbed by other branches and they don't want to. They want to be able to fight for themselves because I richy are you an emerged branch? Yeah, I've been a bunch branch.

46:28Okay. Does all the offices have their own representation for both steps? Uh, my installation I got about four or five stations without a shop st. It's rough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough. Everybody involved. It really is. It is. You know, and you know, we're not for believers are just making shop stewards to make them shop stewards. We have the, uh, we have to have interest. You know, the stewards have to come to, you know, if you're interested in being a steward, you have to show interest in the union meetings. You have to show interest in getting evolved with issues on the park one floor. You know, uh, we just don't want to make someone to stew it to just have a title. You know, maybe we need to do it. Exactly. Exactly. But when we have these small branches who are trying to function, who are trying to have people

47:28step up to represent themselves, we shouldn't be trying to force them to merge into bigger branches. The biggest fear that a small branch has compared to a big branch, if I, my little branch gets absorbed by this big branch, there's a very good chance that they're not going to let you be the formulae. There's a very good chance that if they have, they're elect, you know, they have actual appointed stewards that you're not going to be appointed, that they'll point somebody that they like, not you. Those, those fears go through your head when you're a small branch. And right now they're trying to push all these small little branches who are trying to function, who want training, but can't afford to send people to them. They're trying to get them to be absorbed by these huge branches. And it's got to stop. We have to give people a chance. We know. We're not. The system we have in place is not designed for small branches. It's designed for

48:33big offices and big branches. Yeah. And I don't, I don't like that. Man, my, my small branches, we're going to have, we're going to make you fighters. Just you wait, you're going to be fighting. Change is coming, people. Change is coming. Do you believe experience should be measured in years or results? Results. You're asking meppers to take a chance on a younger leader. Why should they take that chance? So you have to make an investment in your future. Right? You can't look at somebody and say, well, he's 33 years old. He's not going to know what he's doing. He's going to fail. You can't look at that. You look at the fire. There's plenty of people who can teach me how to be the NBA. Even within this region, there's people in region seven who probably should be running for NBA, but they just don't have any interest in doing it. They like staying in their home branch.

49:36They're not willing to leave. I am. And I'm willing to lead not just leave my home branch, but also lead this region. And you know, when it comes to the future, what's 20 years going to look like when we have the same old, same old year after year election after election? Do we really want to go through 20 more years of this? Or do we want to take a chance? Remember, it's only four years. I'm only in there for four years. I have to be in there for my understanding for five years before I can qualify for the retirement for the NALC. I'm going to try my hardest to get back in, right? Not just for me, but for you guys. And I want us to flourish. Because if we flourish, I'm for sure getting back in. And I'm not going to stop. We're going to keep on doing better and better. I'm just asking for an opportunity.

50:41Let me show you what I got. Let's address something uncomfortable. I've heard the criticism that Elliott Simmons can be difficult to deal with. What do you say to that? You've never had a sit-down conversation with me. I've never had a union person or a craft employee have a sit-down conversation with me and think to themselves, I can't talk to this guy. I can't communicate with this guy. Actually, most of the time, the criticism is, you're really direct. You're straight to the point. And I say, well, it's just Elliott Simmons. He's straight to the point. And we'll sit down. We'll have a conversation. I'll explain things. And it always comes out positive in the end. They like hearing me talk. I don't know why. They like speaking to me. I like hearing you talk, brother. But they like talking to me. I've never had a problem communicating with members. I just have it. Now, there have been times

51:46where they rip into me. They tell me off. And I'll sit there and I'll just take it because I'm not going to get into a shouting match with a craft employee with a city letter carrier. I'm not going to do that. Now, I will do that with management pending. Maybe not on the workroom floor. I try to pull management into the unit and go into the office before I rip into them. But that's a respect thing. I don't want them ripping into my carriers in the workroom floor. I'm not going to work rip into them on the workroom floor. You rip into one of my carriers in the workroom floor. I'm going to rip into you on the workroom floor. And I set that tone because I expect management to follow my example. What is the difference between being aggressive and being effective? Aggressive people do things emotionally. I don't. I do things logically. Everything I do is planned and prepared. The only way to actually win the fight that we're in

52:54because obviously, hey guys, if you didn't know, there's like tens of thousands of grievances at B tens of thousands of grievances at regional levels, right? We have to be efficient. We have to do things the right way. Be efficiency and precision is what we need. Being emotional is not going to help you be efficient and precise. Hey, you sit across from somebody you're shortly dislike. Negoti professionally. Absolutely. What happens when a branch president tells NBA Elliott Simmons, you're wrong. Can people on your own team challenge you? Oh, yeah. Please challenge me. Openly challenge me. Show me that I'm wrong. But understand, I am going. If you tell me I'm wrong, I want to try to prove that I'm right. So you better be able to prove that you're right and then I'm wrong. I should be getting credit. If I'm the NBA, you should be criticizing me. You should be saying, hey, I wish you'd communicate a little bit better

53:58with my formal A's. Hey, I wish that you would do a little more training about this. Hey, I wish you would send a route adjustment team to train my carriers and how to do consultations. Criticize me so I can get better. Absolutely. Do you want people around you who agree with you? What people struggling up to tell you when you making a mistake? I think you're an incident. I mean, I'll answer it again. Do you want to know how I want around me? I want people who will actually do the job. Absolutely. I don't care. I'm going to curse. I got this thing. I'm saying you're a hot ass baby. You're an honest person. You know, you have people who kick ass and you have people who kiss ass. My father taught me that kiss asses have no place in this house. You kick ass. You don't kiss it. That's how you that's how you keep a job, kid. That's how you move up. You kick ass. You don't kiss it. I don't want to kiss ass. You kiss my ass. You can get the fuck out. That's a smart man right there, brother. What's the harshest legitimate criticism

55:04someone could make about Elliot Simmons? I have a hero complex. I want to say people. I want to protect people and I am willing to sacrifice myself in order to protect them. Yes. I know that feeling. What have you done to improve that part of yourself? I don't think I have. I think I might even got worse. I'm definitely more logical about things. I don't put myself in a position that will hurt me because I figured out now that if when I'm defending you, if I get hurt, I can't defend you properly. I do move in a way where I'm still defending you with everything I got, but I'm also not getting exposed for potential trouble on my side. Tell me about a time you had to admit I was wrong.

56:11I really don't want to go into it, but my me and my wife went out. This is a funny one. I'll do a serious one too. I was funny. My wife got into argument about whether or not a ring that I bought her was purple. Everyone on the internet said, oh no, that's pink. I'm just like, no, it's purple. It's the same color as Barney. Barney's purple. I was wrong. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. How do you get that big stop, Elliot? Come on. I looked at the website that I ordered it from because it was one of those little silicone rings. She likes to wear them on her ring fingers so the giant diamond that I can't hear. It's got little engraving and stuff on it. It was purple on the website. We looked and it was way different color than what it was on the website. The time that I was wrong, I once had to admit to a carrier that I was wrong for trusting another carrier. That hurt. I had a carrier lie to me. She told me this fake story about what happened on the work

57:18from four between her and this individual. I can't come to find out. She lied to me and I believed her and I didn't believe him mainly because he had a history of doing what she said he was doing. And I had to apologize. I was like, hey man, I was wrong. I'm sorry for that. Next time, I want to start coming in neutral. I can't do that anymore. That was when I was first starting out as a steward and outside installations. Well, you lived alone, brother. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you something very simple. Do you love the light of carrier? Absolutely. I love working class people. What does that actually mean to you? It means I care. It means I'm empathetic. It means I want to see you exceed. I'm sexy. Not sexy. I mean, I want to see you thrive. It means I want to see you treated right. It means I want to see you do better for yourself. It means I want to see you improve in your

58:20personal life and in your postal life. It means that when you're in the dirt, I'm picking you up. It means if somebody knocks you down, I'm jumping into the fight. Somebody punches you in the face. Watch what happens right above you. You're going to see my fist coming to. That's what it means. Because you're family. I want to do that. I want to protect my family. That's what I do. Amen to that. Well, carriers come before politics. Absolutely. Well, carriers come before friendships. Yes. Well, carriers come before the CLC. Oh, yeah. For sure. If someone who opposed your courtesy calls your office at the election, needing help, how would they be treated? The same way as anybody else. We're all in this together. Even if you don't support me now, I'm going to support you. Because again, I welcome the competition.

59:23I, you know, if you're if you're not sure about me now and you say, I'm not voting for you, I'll never support you. Hey, guess what? If you get an EP, I'm coming. You get a grieve, you get a removal. I'm coming. I'm coming to help. Even if you don't want me to help, I'm going to help. Can you promise Regent Seppid that they will be no political retaliation from your office? Yeah. You know what's funny is that I think there's people in my region who are scared that if I lose that they'll be retaliating against for supporting me. And I'm like, man, that just sounds like to me like you shouldn't you should definitely not be voting for that guy. You're scared of retaliation. You vote for the person you're scared of retaliating against you. It's a scary world right now that we're in. It really is. The postal world is very scary right now. It is. The future is at it's at the we're at the line. We're at the line. And it's what we cross

1:00:30which part of the line we're crossing is going to be the outcome of our futures. Literally, you know, the biggest thing I got to tell the people, you know, we're representation. We are a union representation, right? We're not a business. I don't like that. They refer to us as a business. I'm like, we're not a business. We're lawyers. We're your representation. We should be going above and beyond to help you because we're one of you. You put your trust in us. Right. We should be doing everything we can. We should not be operating like a business. We should not be operating like this is some, you know, the national president of the United States. Right. Right. You know, we're not running for political office. We're not running for Congress. We're running for a representation position. And that's how we need to act. What does a carrier have the right to expect when they call their NBA whoppers? You cut out, Richie. Can you say that again? What does a carrier have the right to expect when

1:01:34they call their NBA whoppers? A welcome person. We will welcome you. I will never turn a phone call away from a city letter carrier playing in simple. You hear the stories of stewards presidents even calling the NBA's office and being told you don't worry. You're not you're not to call us. We'll call you later. And now, no, that's not happening. If I had a fan carrier and this is anybody listening, if I'm the if I'm the NBA and somebody in my office tells you that you should have went through your president or that you had no business calling my office, I want to know you need to tell me because I got to address that because we're not dealing with that in regions of A better that trading is what the foundations of your campaign campaign. You said there is a serious lack of trading throughout region seven. How serious is it?

1:02:34They've never had a formal training, formal training. They do the same three trainings at regional every year. They do a beginning steward class where they teach you how to fill out the 8190 and how to request information, which is all all said and good, right? But the intermediate steward class, they just ask you what problems you're dealing with and then they talk about them. And I'm sorry, that's not training. You're not teaching people how to be stewards. That's got to stop. They're not teaching people how to what to put in their files when they send them up to the step B. They're not they're not teaching that. They're not teaching you how to win your grievance at arbitration. That's what the formal A train is going to be. We're going to be treating treating teaching people throughout the region. We're not just going to be in manyapolis. We'll be in Madison. We'll be in Green Bay. We'll be in Bismarck. We'll be in Sioux Falls. We'll be in Rochester. We'll be in Duluth. We'll be wherever we need to be to teach people how to do the second step because the second step of the process is the most important part of the process

1:03:39because that's our last bite at the apple. I've even said, hey, you can't afford to send somebody to a branch or to another branch because you're just that small or you know you can't afford to take time off. Your branch can't pay you to travel. We'll do the formal A and beyond training on zoom on Sundays. I'll do it myself. You know, I want to see I'd like to see a single NBA in the nation right now that would be willing to work for free on a Sunday and train carriers. I'd had to do formal A. I would love to see that too. I would love to see if there's one out there please please tell us that you're doing this because you know to me this isn't a nine to five. This is a six to six. I will work 12 hours a day five days a week right. I'll put in my 12 and 60 because that's what City of Ledercai is do every single week. They put the 12 hours a day 60 hours a week in there

1:04:41and they're we should have the same expectation for ourselves is that post office does for them. Absolutely. What should every still ignore before ever sitting down at an informal step back? You have to go in there thinking you're right. Actually not just thinking knowing that you're right even if you find out later on that you were wrong you go into that meeting saying I'm right you're wrong this is why I'm right and you go in there pounding your chest. That's what every informal A needs to do because confidence is one of the most important aspects of being a steward. A better that. What should every formal A representative know? You better be ready for this filed be presented to arbitration. You better be ready to appeal this grievance immediately after the form lay meeting to step B. You better have settlement offers for management to sign off on going

1:05:43into that meeting. You do not go into that meeting unprepared. You are you have to be prepared for war. This is a war. This is this is actual war time when you go into that formal step A. You know then formal that's the discussion that's a that's like basic peak stocks right like hey let's try to figure this out. Formal A that's war that's serious business and you got to be serious about it and you have to care and you have to be able to prove that what you're claiming is true. Absolutely would trade be available only to branch leadership or directly to rank and file stewards. It'll be available to anybody that wants it. Playing simple. How do you reach small branches that don't have resources or larger branches of larger branches? Well like I said earlier I plan on doing the zoom. I plan on saying I haven't talked about it yet but I plan on doing a weekly file and every everyone who's on the mailing list will get a copy of a file. It'll be a subject matter

1:06:48what and it'll have everything from this is what needs this is the interviews I need have in this thing. This is the contract language I need you to quote these are all the things down a checklist of things that I need in that file to win arbitration and that's going to greatly help out the small branches who don't have that much experience. That's a pretty good idea brother. How do you determine whether your trading program is actually working? When we start actually getting the grievances to arbitration that's how we're going to know whether or not it's actually working. And in fact if you want to if I dare say you want to how you know if a system's not working if you're losing an arbitration if you're settling for bread crumbs as at an a pre-arve that's how you know that your training isn't working because there's that you shouldn't have a single file come to your office that's not ready for arbitration and if you have one if you have a file that comes

1:07:51that's not ready for arbitration it's because you didn't either either the steward doesn't care or they weren't trained properly and if they don't care hey you know what their members are going to have to vote them out and find someone who will because we can't make you care but we can find people with fire we could teach them how to win. If you become a BA what should Regents 7 look like at two years of your trading program? We will certainly be going to arbitration more. Management is definitely going to be settling at lower steps because they're not going to want to have these grievances go to arbitration. You're going to see it'll take two it will take two years I will admit that it'll take a couple years for this shift to set in but Matt Matt is going to get to the point where they're like we can't afford to do 30 arbitrations a month

1:08:51we can't afford it and they're going to have to I'm going to say I don't care you better change yourself you better start settling at the informal and formal A you better start telling these guys to stop violating our contract because otherwise I'll bleed to dry. Now let's talk about why the strongest campaign positions you said we do not go to arbitration to that one region and that is going to change why isn't Regents 7 going to arbitration enough? I have no idea the only thing I can think of is that the regional office is trying to operate like a business as if they have some kind of budget I don't know if they're getting bonuses from you know not sending you know going over this set budget or whatever they have I've heard rumors about that I can't confirm it I don't know why they don't go I don't know if it's because the files are too weak I don't know if it's because the advocate just doesn't feel like doing it I don't know why we don't go can't avoid the arbitration actually weaken future grievances because you have that building

1:09:57favorable president I want to say yes but not for your installation I want to say the big my biggest thing about going to arbitration especially if we have a really strong file is that we can use that decision as per for persuasive value throughout the district that we're in for where that came from right because arbitrators respect other arbitrators pre-arbs they don't they they're not battle tested we don't know if a pre-arb concept precedent or not unless it says it does because arbitrators aren't being given a chance to rule on now if someone has an arbitration I don't have access to the database and I moved up to Regents 7 I lost access if someone has a arbitration where the arbitrator said that pre-arbs do or do not set precedent I would like a copy of that and get a hold of Richie Richie knows how to get a hold of me but I want to copy that because I

1:11:01want to read their reasoning but pre-arb sessions they're they weaken the grievance procedure and whole management knows that if they let's say for a second that they don't set precedent well then there are no different than informal step A right why settle at the lower steps when we could just send everything up and clog up the system at the top and you probably think well why does management care about clogging up the system well because if I have 10,000 cases to decision or to work on at the regional office we don't have the same resources as management does they have entire teams that work on these things we do not have entire teams we have two RAAs and an RGA in the Regents 7 office and then obviously the NBA and they have NAAs across right but we don't have 20, 30 people to work on these things no management knows that they're not as soon as you get to district and above they stop being stupid yeah you guys are aware yeah I got to tell you

1:12:07well we get to a district level we deal with pretty smart people but arbitration also carries risk a bad arbitration decision can hurt carries beyond what case how would you determine which cases should go forward so any advocate would tell you that they let they're going to look at previous decisions from the arbitrator if we have a case where the arbitrator who's assigned to this grievance is incredibly anti of this issue you can't take it because you're going to just lose right those are the type of cases that you try to pre-arve other than that if you don't have a reason other than cost to not take a grievance star arbitration it should be it should be going unless they going to give us everything we want or they're going to give us 95% of what we want but if we're going to do a pre-arve the people doing the pre-arves are going to be calling not just the president

1:13:10of that branch they're be calling the formal A who worked on that grievance and they're going to say hey this is what we're thinking about doing what do you think because at the end of the day it's not the regional offices grievance it was that it was that branch it was that station it was that formal A's and we should be respecting that more absolutely are you prepared to lose cases yes you should be prepared to lose cases if you if you think you're going to win 100% of cases or if you think you're going to lose 100% of cases that's just foolish statistically it's 50-50 right either the arbitration is going to agree or they're going to disagree and I don't like playing statistics like that but that's that's really what it is you're going to lose if I somehow want 100% of cases I better get a post off a regional office name tax or be here something you know you know the if you know the region seven office better be the Elliott Simmons office or something

1:14:11because I don't think it's possible I don't think if you have 100% win rate you've only taken really easy black and white cases to arbitration you know even if you have like a 90% that you didn't take anything complicated yeah I'd be listen even even strong cases lose an arbitration really they don't they don't you know and and obviously there's the black and white you know most of the stuff that I've dealt with that goes to arbitration they're not arguing over merits they're arguing over remedy yeah and that's it they're not arguing it's not a violation so you end up winning the arbitration but at the same time just like the O'Connor award that I have I mentioned earlier he didn't get he said oh yeah you're right but I'm not going to give you everything that you're you're requesting right so you know technically it's a win but to me it was a loss I didn't get anything I wanted right yeah you know he just because we win we don't actually win we don't get absolute their full revenue would you rather lose a properly prepared case fighting for

1:15:17an important contractical principle or settle every difficult case simply to protect a win worst record what was the first option would you rather lose a properly prepared case fighting for an important contractical principle or settle every difficult case simply to protect a win worst record I would rather have a loss because if I have a strong case I know there's always a risk to lose but if I got a strong case we're going we have to we can't we can't miss that opportunity this you know especially now that the files just aren't as strong as they should be because of years and years and years of lack of training we get a really strong case we have to try even at the arbitrators like I don't like that position well I got a really strong case I really have to consider going how do you develop the next generation of arbitration applicants so I plan on

1:16:23doing what was being done to me down in region three after you've been a formula and established formula for a couple of years and I'm looking at your files and I'm like hey they're getting pretty good at this when we get a case that's going to go to arbitration I want to find an experienced advocate to handle it but you the formal A you're going to do the opening you're I should say you're going to prepare it you're going to write the opening you're going to write the closing brief you're going to prepare the witness prep and they're going to walk the experienced advocate's going to walk you through this because that's how we have to pass this on because we can't you know I don't I don't know the last time they've had an arbitrate an advocacy school but it's not life they can take hundreds of people they'll have a set number of people that they can take so I'm going to have the experienced advocates who know what they're doing teach you how to do what they do and we're going to slowly prepare you to get you into the advocacy portion and I think it's really

1:17:27important because not even that but even if they don't want to be an advocate their cases at formal A are going to get better because of that they're going to see what the advocate wants in order to the have it in the hearing they're you're going to your cases are going to evolve because of this and I'm we're going to put you in as the TA now if I will be straight up if we have like a removal or an EP we're probably not going to do that because I'm not going to risk a carrier losing their job we got a contract case it's a strong case we'll try it we're going to do it there it is the LLC grievance is the LLC grievance procedure working today I'm going to say it's not working the way it was intended the way it was structured and even what's happening at step B now the way it was structured was to settle at the lowest step that's

1:18:29why we have 153A I don't know why they haven't done it yet but they realistically need to add step B impasses to 153C we need to have a position in the contract that says hey if management's refusing to meet the the the US the NALC counterpart at step B the step B rep should be allowed to impass the grievance in order to get out of the the DRT within 14 days you know the biggest problem and if you're a DRT guy and you don't have this problem you better not have a backlog for one but two you might want to start thinking about it there are dozens of DRT guys that I've talked to they will get 40 50 60 cases done on their side and management just won't get through their part and they'll just sit on them and they'll just wait

1:19:29and they'll wait a couple weeks oh maybe they'll open up a folder you know they have an expectation for the number of every cases to get through every week the union side we kill it we get our portion done two threefold but management can't even get through their onefold and we need to have this added to the grievance procedure to allow step B to send the grievances up without meeting their counterpart it needs to be able to happen you know where the movers of the grievance not management they shouldn't be able to force us to hold these things at step B well Elliott I feel like you answered this question about going to exit anyway where is it breaking down is that B? well grievances- original offices yeah it's breaking down above the formal step A well grievances sitting too long absolutely we have time limits right and the longer you wait

1:20:30the more harm it is for the carriers we should not have a single union person advocating for grievances to be held to wait to meet on like we should because it hurts the people to represent yeah have selvants become too dependent on biotary remedies rather than actually stopping contractical violations oh I want to say no and I say that because as an experienced formula and I'm saying experience because I've done it since 2018 was the first case February 2018 was my first case I always go in there with two different settlements one is to if I already have a of escalation like already set in place I'm always asking that for that just for reference but the first one is either we're going to further the escalation or establish an escalation and then the second one is really strong language because really strong language to me is just

1:21:37important as actual money if I can get language saying that management has to do something a certain way I will trade off a monetary further escalation behind beyond what I already have for that strong language because I know management's going to violate it again anyways money money the money comes we get money through grievances not very often do we get really strong enforceable language no I have to agree with you on that one what put is winning the safe grievance 25 times of badge but simply writes another check and violates the contract again tomorrow you have to think of it as an as an investment for the future if I have 25 grievances over the course of six months we'll say six months and we can present to an arbitrator like hey this keeps happening we need to escalate it we have to figure out a way to make them stop

1:22:40cease and assist isn't working anymore truthfully management just treats it like another piece of paper we need something to stop them and the arbitrator will give you more money and they'll do that just to stop at the harm because they you know we present the case to show all the harm and let's say management keeps on doing it and then you keep on making that monetary go up and up and up either eventually management's going to stop because they're tired writing the checks or your city letter carriers are going to make bank now I'm not saying making bank is always the solution some people just don't want to be violated and I get it but right now we don't have a any different system in place to actually stop it and prevent management for keep on violating other than the deterrence of a monetary escalation if we had something saying that they weren't allowed to manage carriers anymore

1:23:42hey that would be useful but we don't have that not yet well we got that that we got that stupid language fall orders now grieve later right and that's that's where the harm is right yeah that's you know that's in the ELM and management's not changing that yeah they won't and why would they why would I have no reason I wouldn't change it how do we restore actual compliance think I already touched on it but the biggest thing is the money trust me when I say this when when management starts losing bonuses that that senator you're talking about taking away their bonuses I was so tempted to call my call my rep and say hey can you have them amend that to include contract compliance with the unions and say if you're not complying with the unions you don't get raises you don't get bonuses because that will put a stop to it they'll start complying if they're not getting paid that's something that's something that the national should

1:24:47consider having discussions I seriously doubt the post office will have agreed to that but somebody needs to push that as a like a legislative amendment hey I'm surprised that has even come up a very surprised that has even come up hey I'm not the smartest you know guy out here but there has to be other people who thought of this too like I wonder wonder with congress got involved and told the post office hey you can't comply with these grievance that these contracts you have you guys can't be paid bonuses I can't believe nobody else has ever thought of it nobody else has probably just never you know I don't think I want really gives a shit that much I think they put on a good job I don't think they really give a shit you know what I'm saying I mean in the end of the day the post office is just like it's a weekly dig every year with congress that's all it is it's a weekly dig you know and it becomes a a much worth of videos or tic-top on youtube but it's the grab and then it

1:25:51disappears it's just these news yeah the pope I mean the post office doesn't care about the negative publicity the only time they care is when they can use it against carriers that's it that's it that's it they can use it against me they care against them yeah old lady down this street can play about not getting her mail for a month no who cares she got her packages listen I had I had a manager complained about my tic-toc videos but yet his supervisor is doing tic-toc videos so what the fuck you you want to talk about being a hypocrite right I say man you care about my tic-toc videos but you don't care about the fact that you just spent a hundred thousand dollars last month agreeing settlements yeah it doesn't make sense I like you care about my tic-toc videos the I fucking film it in my car on the way to work off the clock all my old time you know come on give me a break does usps fear the grievance procedure ready well

1:26:52not right now they don't they don't fear it at all and you you can tell just by the fact that they just keep sending the stuff up the ladder how do we change that Elliott well I can tell you this if that memo that came out means anything we can make a lot of fear the post office through money you know what that memo was about don't settle for all this money we can't afford to spend all this money I think that memo was our proof we need that monetary escalations are going to work yeah I agree with you a hundred percent brother and we need to capitalize on that you said we need more active union why aren't members why aren't members participating because we don't actively try to make them do it or try to get them involved you know you talk to the old timers and I like talking to the old timers like the really old timers they'd have bowling tournaments they'd have fishing tournaments they would they would everybody would go to the meeting

1:27:58now we don't do stuff like that we can't afford to do stuff like that you know we're still bringing in the same percentage of dues even though the cost of actually running the NALC at the local level keeps on going up well we can't do the extra stuff without more dues but they don't want to pay more dues right right and I'm not saying raise dues I'm saying we got to figure out how to get them more active I think using the auxiliary the NALC auxiliary is a part of the solution for that because you know they used to be really active before we had the ability to negotiate and they were they would actually rally behind people and get people involved we got to start doing that again you have to figure out a way to get the younger people involved because the younger people are the future of the union and it I don't want to say it's contagious contagious but it is contagious if you get two three four pTFs who just started out involved they'll drag other people that people

1:29:02don't like doing stuff by themselves they will drag other people these union meetings they will drag them to your MDA events they will drag them to the picnic they will do that and everyone will just start grab each other pull on each other and because what a union is right we're pull on each other in and being tight together like glue and that's what we need we need to be pulled back together and it starts at the lower part and we got to figure out a way to do it how do you reach a 24 year old a 25 year old CCA or a newly converted regular who thinks the union doesn't have anything to do to do with me so the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to show them I'm going to show them my check right I say you see this every part of this is negotiated look at your check every part of your check is negotiated you don't get paid enough

1:30:03we don't have bargaining resolutions in place to make to bargain to get you more pay than what we already do you need to get involved because if you have a voice you have a vote you go to the convention and you're a delegate you get to vote on changes that affect your every day in our bargaining positions that's why we have to be involved that's why you have to be involved and you need to inspire other people around you to have the same belief we can only do better together separate we can't we have to do this together and that's how you get the young guys you give them purpose what does eddylc need to do differently to connect with the table two carriers they need to recognize that the job today is just as hard as the job it was years ago

1:31:06um I had a retiree because I we were all worried about all those past resolutions that were in the book we were worried that the four and ten was in there and it was for approval we were all worried about I was talking to retiree in the guest section and she told me she's like well come on when I carried mail we had 12 feet of mail every day and I was like yeah how many packages you have three four I have 200 300 packages a day and I still have six feet to eight feet of DPS like we still carry the mail value is went down for letters and flats we get it but the job's just as hard now as it was before in fact I would almost say it's harder because management is more stingy and more abusive you know way back when and I'm not going to name who told me this story I had I had a carrier tell me before they put tracking in the scanners everyone in the office ran their routes and they would go to his house and swim with the pool

1:32:08for an hour and then they would all come back to work there was no overtime everyone worked together to achieve that goal they put to put tracking in that had to stop people started making sure that they're walking the same pace no matter how much mail they had because they're afraid of losing their routes losing their jobs and it just made things worse and worse you know the treatment has certainly went down carriers aren't respected management will look at a brand new CCA and be like hey you want a 204 B and a CCA would be like yes like a two three dollar pump and pay I'll take I'll be a 204 B and then they turn into little shit heads you know because it's you know they they get the power trip there's a there's a test I can't remember the college they did it but they put all bunch of people in prison they had prison guards and then they had prisoners and the prison guards turned really abusive I want to say it's Stanford but that's what happens when

1:33:15you put people in positions of authority that never had it and that's what we're seeing now for the last you know five six years they're keep on putting people who've never had authority with authority people who have no experience who aren't going to get the respect from other carriers because we're not going to respect someone who has never carried mail for more than 20 minutes and it's making things worse how do we develop the next generation of stillits it's their training it's through inspiration it's actually pulling finding the right people right you find me somebody who knows right from wrong and is willing to represent someone that they don't that has a little bit of fire a little bit of flame inside of them and I can teach them how to be a steward it's not that complicated of a job it's really not even the NBA it's not that complicated of a job a letter carrier can do it anybody can do these jobs you just have to find

1:34:20that integrity you have to find that fire what responsibility do better if you'd represent us have to mentor younger members rather than protect their positions you have a responsibility for one to train the next generation you have to find your replacement in fact you should be finding competition like I've been pushing this bull this bull you should be making sure that the young guys the younger carriers see what it means to be in a union because a lot of them don't see it you should not be creating a hostile work environment for the new people you should not be treating them like second class I swear I've gotten to so many arguments with veteran carriers over the fact that the pts and cca's are not the quote unquote help they are not

1:35:21second class carriers they're city letter carriers just like we are give them a little bit of respect give them a little bit of guidance don't be negative around them they they've already are getting shit on by management every single day they're already being thrown into work they've never done before they need help they need someone to stand by them and give them an arm to give them confidence they can't just be the union reps it has to be everybody because that's what a union is it's everybody standing together are some leaders afraid to develop younger people because those younger people may eventually replace them absolutely but gatekeeping is a real thing people being afraid of losing their their comfy little chair jobs their desk jobs that's a real thing I've seen it they people are scared of losing losing the good old boys club they're so scared of it you should be welcoming it

1:36:29if I'm being honest how do we break that mentality by leading by example because that's what I'm I've been talking about the whole time I'm going to lead by example I want competition I want 12 30 fit a hundred people in my region to be able to be NBA and it'll run against me if they want to and I want to be able to sit there and say hey I'm going to make you the best you can possibly be but you're not beating me because I'm going to still win but I'm not going to hold you back but you guys stay hungry oh yeah now leaving region seven let's talk about the national union what is the current state of the annual state week we care more about the business about the union than we do about the carriers and I say that

1:37:30you know without being honest late just being a carrier myself they I don't see I don't see love from them I don't see fire from them I don't I don't see see them actually caring they care you know what you know when you hear someone from national and they talk about like oh yeah we're getting really you know terrible results from these route adjustments we're losing rounds blah blah you know I hear we're making less money because there's less there's less carriers that's what I hear from them I don't hear yeah you know we have people that lost their jobs and we don't know what to do because they might lose their house or they might never carry mail again we don't know you know I don't hear that I I they're not saying that stuff they're not taught worried about that they're worried about the money they're worried about how much they're bringing it and then it's just it's weak do right if follow up carriers trust national leadership I would say that the vast majority don't even know they've never given been given a reason to trust

1:38:38or not trust them for the last 15 20 years they they don't know who their president is if you're not on social media if you're not active in your union branch you probably have no idea who the director of safety and health is right I don't the people who are active we do not trust them we do not we just don't because we see what happened with that TA we saw us being forced to take at a contract that we voted no on you know I listened to that branch 1100 debate and I couldn't believe when I heard them say something along lines if I would have went to arbitration over the money I like bull we voted the whole thing down not just the money right wait a minute did did nobody listen to me I didn't vote no because of the money I voted no because of the changes in the contract

1:39:39that we're going to harm carriers and they are harming carriers yes shocking I was right you know what's scary Elliott what's scary now is that I have to say you know show me your work with floor and I could show you what type of shops do it you are but a line show me your work with floor and I could tell you what kind of shops do it you have show me all your work with floors and I could show you what kind of branch offices you have show me all your branches and I could tell you what kind of MBA you have show me all your MBAs you could show me what kind of price national president you have the bottom line is the the the top has they divide us they divided us they the Dawson Ward it divided us the table one table two divided us I mean in the end of the day it just it destroyed the shulian oh it was before the Dawson Ward

1:40:43when they put T E's in because we need to hold full-time positions for clerks our union should have went nuts that's why we got the Dawson Ward is because we allowed them to do this T E deal for all those years and then our you sorry I'm on rent then then our union proposed the city carrier position and I know why they did why they proposed CCAs because they needed to find a way to get out of this T E situation and then we got stabbed in the back when Dawson's just like okay well I'll give you this but we're paying him less and we're not going to give them full-time rights I got the L.A.X. pieces up the puzzle came together to me I got to be honest with you the Dawson Ward was no different than the Dull underwood I I think Brian took Fred's fucking playbook did the Dull Ward was the Dawson Ward I mean he did he destroyed their names to it we wrote that fucking decision we got betrayed we got betrayed that's a lot we got betrayed as a union we got

1:41:52betrayed listen we got betrayed and the people who we pay to represent us didn't want to stand out and scream about us being hurt who did it who actually stood out Henry and Cara it was those two guys as anybody else on the excited council stand up and say hey this is a crock I don't remember anybody else doing that nobody else did that well Chris Jackson did Chris there you go Chris Jackson the sheriff the CLC the people who were actually trying to change things stood up and say hey this is this is wrong you shouldn't have done this and what the rest of them do not they sat in their office counting how much money they make not giving a damn well guess what we give a damn now that's right we're taking this back now yeah we're taking region seven now

1:42:52the CLC's taking national now it's gonna happen the city letter carriers taking back the union sorry you got me right you got me growing man keep it coming baby has national leadership be called disconnected from the work of law absolutely absolutely was the last time some of them guys have walked a mile I've actually wait for a walk was the last time one of them been told off for having over time on their assignment was the last time they've carried a letter was the last time that they got back to the office at six o'clock at night and and was told hey you got to go back out because we get we had to split this route and the packages have to go so only take the packages don't deliver the mail be back by seven thirty you can't work over twelve wins the last time they went through that was the last time they they had to feel ashamed of themselves as a city letter

1:43:52carrier because they had to explain to a customer that management wasn't letting them delivered the mail that because for some reason only the parcels mattered wins the last time they went through that because I bet none of them went out through that one find one I dare you you find somebody an executive council that's ever had to get get angry and sad because they had to look at a little lady's eyes and explain to them that they weren't allowed to deliver her mail you find that he better now I'm pissed no dude yeah I bd8 right by seriously it broke my heart it broke me as a city carrier it broke me looking at this little lady at the teller that I wasn't allowed to deliver her mail it's something that she looked forward to getting every day it said on beppers be it told enough about what's happening inside the union no too many unions locally

1:44:57regionally and nationally are not informing the membership of what's happening especially with missing money does any LC have accountability problem absolutely they do not hold themselves accountable and that proof was with Rivera charges they upheld that appeal they upheld the I'm trying to think how to word it the appeal was not approved by the delegation at the convention for microvera and the whole point of him bringing that appeal was because the executive council decided that they weren't going to follow the constitution because they weren't going to be held responsible to do what's right we have an accountability in the NALC that's not being followed and that was proof they won't hold themselves responsible for their own actions

1:46:01they won't hold each other responsible actions it was actually kind of funny somebody asked me if when Bill Crebel wins his NBA position and if Bill did something wrong to the members would you have his back or would you call him out on it and I told them if Bill does something wrong to the members I will to address it I will not hold that back I don't care that we're on the same slate do not do wrong to city letter carriers playing in simple does ELC have transparency problem yes I think I've answered that yes does ELC have leadership development problem absolutely ask somebody who's been through leadership academy what exactly they learned leadership academy I've heard rumors that they have an entire class on how to avoid article 10 charges well I didn't have that I'm class 27 I didn't have that oh maybe got lucky

1:47:10yeah maybe I got someone go through it and they told me that they had an actual class where they actually explained to you how to avoid getting article 10 charges and all that and that was very shocking to me because I'm like that I don't think that's leadership development I think that's avoiding that ability I think I think they're misunderstood I think they're misexplaining it I think the we we had a subject that explains to us what article 10 charges will bring up what we're not supposed to do like as leaders we have to we have to lie out a handle the situation yeah like you know to avoid article 10 charges to not do I'm I'm I'm misunderstood I was wrong yeah yeah I I took it as like oh they're they're teaching that how to avoid article 10 I got do is for you that leadership that leadership program is probably the best leadership program that was the

1:48:11best uh training I have ever been at that in arbitration that was the best two trainings I have ever been at now for the way beyond was great um uh you know but that was good class I think we do a good job with that stuff but I think by saying that we have all these programs in place and and and only the selective group gets to go oh yeah the hand picked people by the NBA so if your NBA doesn't like you you're not going you're not going and I just happen to get picked for Larry Surrelli was the region 15 NBA and he was retiring and he sent me an email hey rich I gave you a gift from my retirement I talked to president in picking you they called it a leadership class it was like he did be a favor you know it he kind of like maybe feel like I didn't earn it you know what I mean like I don't know it is just weird you know

1:49:16but it was what it should have been was the NBA looked at you and said you know I think you have the potential to be a leader right and I think you need a little push you're going to this class whether you like it or not yeah and and that's what should that's what should be happening but no instead it's it's you know well whoever whoever my yes people are they will send them I like these people I don't like people who challenge me I got to tell you I think he just picked me because he was leaving you know it's just weird it but that that class is probably one of the best classes I've been at and I got to tell you I I heard a robot that they're looking to dismantle that class and I really hope that the CLC but we win I hope we keep that going because I mean I would like to see them do these leadership academies in some of the regions right yeah I mean you know I got to be honest with you I think regional offices should be doing more trading I mean

1:50:18you look they're not listen I'll not say it being an NBA is easy I'll not take it away from what they do and I'm not taking away that they don't have a hard job and this and that but you know what I'm calling my NBA who up is on a Friday afternoon at two o'clock and no one's answering the fuck the phone because no one's there you know they they go home on a half a day on a Friday before Saturday come on man what the fuck we got carriers working seven days a week all representatives should be working seven days a week now everyone has a right to have a rest day absolutely but you have an office of four fucking people maybe five with the office manager why the fuck is someone by that phone you know what I don't get why aren't they why isn't anybody there on Saturday that's not sure they're on Sunday you know if if if I'm a ptf and I can't get a hold on anybody

1:51:22right I got in the car accident I can't get a hold on my branch president I can't get a hold on my student I don't know what to do I go to nlc.org I find my business agent it's a Sunday it's Amazon day right I'm dropping packages off I want to be able to talk to somebody because I need help right you know we deliver seven days a week right city letter carriers work seven days a week should our regional office also work seven days a week I have no issue whatsoever making it there's probably a way to you you guys know more about how the phone system works than I do by guarantee you there's a way to have it to where if if if I get a phone call on Saturday and nobody is in the office and I'm actually going to my phone yeah and there is a way of doing that and during covid the Brooklyn the Brooklyn office when they when they did the regulations where you couldn't keep everybody inside in office they they closed all the offices down like the forced us to close down the office what they did was they did call for for reading so what they

1:52:24did was Brooklyn office has three lines and the line one was going directly to job cruises phone cell phone number phone and line two was going directly to poor poor box and line three was going to any penero so there was always someone there available to pick up the phone you know and it was a little bit longer to get them to help because they weren't in the office where they had the luxury of having you know the resources of transferring calls but it was still be it done you know and they worked like that for about a whole year you know it's no they they they pulled that regulation but there's a way of doing that and um yeah I just don't think the NBA office should be uh listen they get paid good money all right and listen to me I'm not taking away they should be

1:53:27they should not be compensated they they they sacrifice their lives they they do they they sacrifice that being whole been and all this they should be compensated fine but the bottom line is is that you get paid good money to do the job do the fucking job yeah that's a good job you know what I didn't even know what the salary was until we went to convention and there was that proposal to lower it right and they told me oh it's being lowered to 150,000 I'm like it's being lowered to 150,000 dollars a year I like 150,000 years that's still double my base yeah I mean you know at this point triple you pay oh man what's the sickle biggest eternal problem facing this union communication that that's really what it is and it's not communication amongst each other

1:54:29because I think the NALC does a pretty good job of communicating with itself but it's communicating with the actual carriers yeah I think the carriers need they need connection I mean that a website we we need we need more um the FBAs need to come out to the stations they really do they need to come out I don't know why they don't you know just thinking from a logical standpoint what you like you know you go into an office I'll say Richie when you go to an office does your management move differently than when you're not there no oh that's surprising because when I go into an office as a rep they move differently because they're scared oh yeah I mean yeah yeah yeah I should what you say it yeah yeah when you go to a state you when you go to represent a station that you're not you know not yeah yeah well what I go yeah yeah you know I get I get this a lot that uh I walk into a

1:55:31station without a shop stood up there and I get carriers go oh man I wish you a year every day I'd never get a good morning but no management moves differently when they see a rep on the floor they do actually has authority and power right because you know if I'm the if I'm the NBA I'm not getting paid by the post office right you can't put me you know you can't put me on EP right you can't deny me Stewart time I'm getting paid already you go to hell it's uh that just comes down to what I just said show me your work before I could show you what type of shops do it you have bottom line you know listen I'm not I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here but when I was the shop stood before I became a branch officer I do a B and C and D what was going on in my office I knew what was going on in the right corner I know what was going on the left corner I know what was going on the center I do I do by supervise this movement

1:56:37I do when my supervisor moved a certain way I knew he was looking for trouble and I was right following that son of a bitch I did not allow him to skate me okay and they fucking hated me and they hated me so much that they started getting on board with me because they didn't want to deal with me be a thorn on their side yep and I'm not saying be a bully don't be a bully listen to me management's going to give you every excuse to be to shit out of them there's no reason why you need to bully them they they'll do they'll give you the excuses to do it just wait for that moment they'll give it to you bottom line is just stand your ground and protect your station don't be afraid the shops do it's got authority you know one of the biggest things that I learned as an outside rep because at one point in time I was the informal and formal A for seven different installations

1:57:38so six of those installations I was only being paid by the union to represent I got to the point where management did not want me coming to their office because they hated dealing with me and they started complying with the contract they started calling me saying hey can I do this they're trying to make me do this absolutely not you can't do this and this is why here's the article you can look it up and then the violations just dropped right you know Elliott it's way that you say that because I noticed drew time that some carriers they don't like me neither because I disrupted their deals their deal making this not allowed to happen anymore because management is getting held accountable and they get mad at me and I noticed that management shows me more respect than my own carriers though you know I mean it's crazy it's it's it's really a

1:58:47it's a balance that's hard to explain you have to live it you know what I mean you're not going to believe these stories you have to you have to see it to believe it you really know even corruption I had a steward and it was an isolated office in the branch and she was the steward for 10 15 years they never had anything go above informal A well finally a carrier called and complained that her leave was kept on being denied and we're like what do you mean it's being denied and we got involved right come to find out she did an LMOU without without telling anybody it was the steward had it worded that the stewards leave was always approved and management had discretion on proving anybody else's that was corruption amongst the union that I was in but this again is one of them backdoor deals as soon as I went in and I found this out and the

1:59:49management team was like oh yeah we have this deal where we only have to approve her leave we don't have to prove anybody else's that steward stepped down immediately and she ended up changing crafts because I put it stopped at that and I changed the LMOU back to what it needed to be that's crazy and you know stuff like that happens all over the place and it's not obviously it's not just stewards you have carriers who make backroom deals as well yeah but you know why it doesn't help when you have a stew it that's supposed to lead by example doing that because that that breaks corruption and it breaks apart the unity of for the city letter carriers if really no we had a whole office that did not trust the union for anything they didn't want to call us they didn't want to report us when I went in there and I did that suddenly those carriers were coming to every union meeting those carriers reporting every little thing that happened and their office got turned around through the grievance procedure because we were finally

2:00:54grievances on everything and then management started doing the job right and and that that's why I need from the CLC that's why I need from national that's why I need for the regional offices that's why I need from the branches we'll get it back we do it the right way and we turn these offices around you're going to be surprised at how united the our fellow carriers are going to be absolutely absolutely what's the biggest eternal dread basic city letter carriers external strut what do you mean when you say external threat I don't know it's funny what questions what do you want to get I mean the biggest the biggest threat for city letter carriers I want to say is actually themselves because a lot of people take things personally and it's just getting worse

2:01:57and they're tearing themselves apart and they just don't know what to do and they get to that sense of helplessly. I mean it kills them on the inside you know I know we have that protect your letter carriers act I do support that I think there's more abuse in the office than there is out of the office from not just I mean not just management because management can be bullies they could be up to the be abusive that happens but we have other carriers who will abuse and violate other carriers and that's got to stop to the harassment in the office is definitely the biggest threat to carriers well I listen my point of view is this I've dealing with a lot of carrier carrier issues in my installation right now it's like almost every station is like another issue with another carrier and I think the division comes from the union but I think that the void

2:03:04is coming from the leadership of the supervision of the Wackelfluz the supervisors are the they are the ones dropping the poison in the carriers years they're like well Richie Ray he can't hump he can't hurry he's not trying he's lacking that's why you have to go help him that's what it leads everybody to hate that carrier or a carrier calls out sick today they're like oh Richie Ray called out today so everyone's got to do one to time you know that shit it really is got to go yeah they creation of the hostile working bird yeah they're really purposely creates a hostile order right let me tell you something about these supervisors they love gossip they love gossip live on the negativity they live on the poison and why is that only why is that because the the blind at Wackelfluz is a control purpose they do not purpose they do it they keep everyone divided

2:04:07because they know if one side of the table loves them and the other side hates and it's not going to matter because it's 50-50 yes that she said I have support already I don't have to worry about it and the buy a Wackel a divide a Wackelfluz is a weak Wackelfluz exactly and they know that you know they they put the poison the brain especially against the union which is illegal I might if they are purposely saying well the unions the one screwing you over blah blah they're enforcing this contract but if they're doing that you bet the union you got filed grievances man got filed grievances because they're they're creating division amongst your matter but the problem is with that though it's hearsay if we don't get statements yeah yeah that's the other issue you know write everything down I had at one point my office is that I was in charge of if you hear something out of the ordinary every carriers just take a step back look over and watch

2:05:08and see that interaction and we and you write it down exactly what happened and this is what's going to stop the abuse and that's what stop the abuse and bourbon ailing away all the carriers started writing statements about every little thing that the abuses supervisors were doing every single time and management figured it out and they stopped because they knew they were going to get away with it anymore right well this leads me to this next question what happens to the union if we continue operating it exactly as we are today well we're going to get weak enough to the point where we just disband people are going to be quitting they're they're going to be leaving the union people aren't going to be joining it's going to make us weaker we're not going to be able to bargain as well as we are because if you didn't know the less bargaining power we have the weaker contracts are going to are going to be and it's going to turn into a bleeding effect where

2:06:09eventually we just don't have a contract anymore I know it's in the law but eventually someone will get this thrown out of the law and we won't have enough money to getting to the right lobbyists to stop the law from passing because we don't have support from the sea layer carriers you have to have a strong workforce you have to have unity as a union and you have to support that unity in order to ensure a contract in order to ensure contract enforcement the the NALC will kill itself through a thousand cuts it will do it it's been trying to do it for the last 10 15 years yeah well you attended the NALC National Convention because I know because I kidnapped you yet you can't let me what did you say I saw a lot of people that didn't want to be there and for all the listeners I'm going to tell you what happened as a guest I was not a delegate I was a

2:07:10guest we come up to Friday and there was a lot of business to go through there was well over a hundred resolutions to talk about we had charges guest speakers all this stuff to do we get they pat they they pass rules saying that we're going to finish at 12 o'clock on Friday well we get to Friday and there's a lot of business still left and there was contention about extending it to three o'clock extending it you know beyond three o'clock eventually there was a motion on the floor because not all the resolutions were in the book there was a motion on the floor to approve all the resolutions recommended that were not in the book and it passed and it passed because people did not want to be there doing work that's what I witnessed think about how foolish that is you signed off on resolutions without even knowing what they were that's like when a city

2:08:15letter carrier signs a lee slip without actually looking at what the lee slip is for by the way guys carrier sign off that they're a wall all the time because they don't read the 3971s that management puts in front of them we did something similar at at the convention people need a run for these delegations positions and the people who are running you need to care about the business it is work convention is work there's fun after hey there was a lot of drinking a lot of party and a lot a lot of communicating hanging out with your friends that you haven't seen in two years that's going to happen but we're there to work and there were people there who were not there to work they were there for a vacation that's what I witnessed it's been bothering me ever since but get the politics for a moment what did the convention tell you about the health of this year you'd we are certainly divided there was a

2:09:19clear contrast between those that still carry mail and those who do not there was a clear contrast between those who actually care about the union and the city letter carriers and those who do not it's not it's not politics it's not a certain slate because there's people on all sides who care and there's you know that's the truth of it but that that divide that was there did the convention make you walk optimistic or walk assert it made me more optimistic I know I've been very negative on it but you know what I saw I saw more and more people going to the mic I saw more and more young people being active I saw more and more people trying to communicate with each other across separate regions not just isolating themselves by category I saw that at the convention it actually made me hopeful for the future I saw change happening in real life compared to the Boston convention yeah I have to agree with you you know listen that Tuesday morning

2:10:26what we started with the the amendments of the constitution I got to tell you that was a dreadful day that was a exhausting day I mean I was hung over on Wednesday from Tuesday and I wasn't even drinking I'm talking about being at the general administration yeah I was just insane um it was uh but I am with you I did feel that our younger cats were there they were they were being more engaged they were being more concerned and it was getting involved they were not afraid to get to the microphone even some of them even know what they were up with the microphone like they didn't even know what what what what what what letter to be on but they were still there they're still there you know um yeah listen it it gave me a lot of hope it did but it was an irritating convention at the same time what happened at the convention that members back hold need to understand

2:11:33the convention isn't a actual representation for all the membership there are definitely people there who were trying to get business done there definitely people who were there that were just there to be there um but even talking with the people who were there there there were a lot of people there who haven't touched mail in 20 30 years and nothing against them but I want them to know that the the actual convention isn't a direct reflection of them because there's definitely people who've been going through these conventions for decades that probably shouldn't be anymore they probably should be passing it off to somebody else yeah I mean listen look that's a that's a tricky one I mean the the sit here and say to a retiree

2:12:36they they should step aside and give it to the next person it sounds kind of cool you know from the outside looking in but inside looking in just just hear me out for a second think about the act of carrier that we're making these resolution decisions on on all contract resolutions and and a retiree can a retiree carrier here's a resolution that just doesn't make sense to the act of carrier but he he's like oh that's a good idea yeah let me vote that in it's not that simple it doesn't affect you you know the convention should be for active carriers that look I I know I'm putting us on a spot here but in the end of the day the order to fix the problem we have to recognize there is one right and and the reality is the the the the convention should be for active carriers I'm sorry they

2:13:44should be I'm not saying that the retirees that paid the way you guys certainly certainly have wisdom you certainly gave you sacrificed your lives you you you you you you you you paid the depend you did I'm gonna clarify the delegation should be for the active carriers you want to why see the retirees therefore I want to see them there as guests I want to see them there leading the workshops I want to see them there talking to the younger guys that's what I want to see but when you're voting on resolutions that are realistically never going to affect you you you you don't think about how the the effects you don't think about it like whatsoever there was a vote unlike the shoe policy you think they care about the shoes yeah that we were right yeah I mean listen I appreciate you clarify that because I wasn't saying that right but you're a hundred percent

2:14:48correct yeah yeah we want you guys there just like come on like we we the active carriers need to be a more active role in the in the decision making process because you know we vote on a TA we don't vote on the resolutions that are proposed that leads us to a TA right well disleads me to this next question did delicate seriously debate the difficult issues facing the membership when they were allowed to they were obviously I wasn't allowed in there during executive session so I wasn't there for the amendments but for the parts that I was allowed in there for like the general resolutions and the bargaining resolutions the legislative ones when people were actually allowed to speak full or against the recommendation at the mic that argument was there and it was heard but we had a lot of situations where we had people who were just dedicated to calling the question

2:15:50and seconding it immediately because people are just trying to get out of there and sometimes hey it's time to call the question but man when you have like nine people at the mic trying to speak that's not the time to call the question unless we've heard you know the same thing over and over again yeah I agree with you I agree with you where there are moments where you believe politics matted more than policy yes every time and it's something I know they argued about a little bit I got I got to hear them in the lobby I don't think the executive council should be allowed to put the recommendation on a resolution unless it is a violation of law or it's in conflict with another already approved resolution because what happened is if the executive council said yes people said yes for the most part and then if they said no people said no along with them for the resolutions

2:16:59and that's politics because people are just like we can trust the people we voted in right and and that's it's just not good it's just not good policy you don't critically think about the decisions you make because of that recommendation did anything happy that disappointed you oh I wasn't going to go into this until I got on geegax I'll get down to it now um the racism disappointed me the slurs that I heard disappointed me people shouting at each other outside of the convention center because one was on one slate and one was supporting the other like that disappointed me um the race oh oh god like like I almost hit like I was thinking about punching somebody in the face over calling my friend who was with me the n word I was very angry about that and thankfully he stopped me he said don't don't they're baiting you don't don't do anything you're running for a position don't fall for it don't do that those senseless

2:18:03arguments that disturbed me that disappointed me especially when it was coming from the veterans the guys who were there had been there the longest like you're supposed to lead by example I stopped an argument between a care of supporter and a ryan supporter I got in the middle I'm not I don't support either candidate but I got in the middle because I'm like hey hey this is convention you guys can't you guys can't do this here you have to stop and they looked at me and said what's any of your business you're not in either of our size I'm like because we're all brothers and sisters we're a union we're supposed to be working together you know that that that got me it really did yeah that that was a little disturbing the a thing happened that gave you hope I saw people who you would normally not think shake each other's hands actually communicate

2:19:07I actually did see that I I had somebody sit down with me who's from my region who told me blatantly I'm not voting for you but I'll talk to you and I said hey I welcome it and we had a conversation and they hate my guts they told me they hate me and that's a little bit but we sat down we had a conversation and I liked seeing that because it was the opposite of what I was seeing what I described earlier because you see you see all this bad but there's good there too there's communicating there too there's people figuring things out I saw people on Monday afternoon all hungling up and saying hey we have some resolutions that we put forward we need people to hit the mics and we need people to argue with us who who can help and there's like 40 50 of us in a in a circle talking about it talking about how to argue these resolutions for our support and I like seeing that because that means that people are actually working together right if you could

2:20:08change what they about how to add you'll see conventions operate what would it think I would save guest speakers for Friday mainly because guys just so you know this 100 plus resolutions this is going to become a regular thing now because people know how to do it they know how to put in resolutions they're going to start doing it and people are going to be communicating with each other it's going to become a regular thing speakers need to be here on Friday no one from management is welcome I boot him yeah listen listen it's tradition it's subrottle created that and the reason why he created that was because that was his way of getting ground with management he shows them the respect their inner city the post-pastorant district manager comes out

2:21:10as it invite it shows it shows it shows a joint effort it's just really just it's just for show a political show it's not listen it yet I don't think that's a bad thing you give a little kudos and that's it you know I still I still didn't like it yeah I didn't like it I wasn't I'm not this should hear a line you I'm not a big fan of it give me give me Lloyd give me ductaline give me Todd Tolino ductalino get up squeed all get fuck killed to death maybe maybe but you know and again that the whole recommendation thing that that's got to go yeah oh people aren't thinking about the decisions they're making they're just following a line listen the other thing is to um um you know what we're doing to you amendments and I know you weren't in there but um but we're doing to you amendments and they opened up the mic for other business uh it takes

2:22:12away the time that we need to get to business and that's what delays the process and there's got to be a rule put in place which I think it already is but they don't enforce it very well they need to stop allowing people to get to the mic just to give shout outs um they do whatever they want to talk about because we got to get to business you know they should the everything all the extra stuff should be on Friday the guest speakers the the like you know obviously the past the hat um we can we announce the results on Friday you you should probably have submitted for the past the hat we can put a big thing on the screen on like a little slide show saying like hey these are the people for the hat past the hat this is what's going on we don't we don't need all all this extra stuff uh announcements for the raffle tickets like you can even put that as a

2:23:13PowerPoint we can do stuff like that to quicken up the process right and you you know save all the extra stuff for Friday you know because if they want to get out by noon on Friday well you can get through a couple guest speakers you can get through the announcements of the mda raffle stuff you can you do all that stuff on Friday right what should right could follow carriers large for the convention heading into the national election you need to get involved you let's talk let's talk about the decision you made politically with the de-union why the concert ledic areas because they're like me the every single candidate on that slate is like me we want better contracting for us we want better training we want better treatment they want to actually do things to achieve our goals that's why i'm on the concerned letter

2:24:15carrier slate because these are people like me when did you decide the clc represented the direction you wanted elia see the take immediately i was on the first zoom was there at the fighting moment when they had the cok and they were going around finding people i got a phone call for my branch president brine johnson and he said hey i know you're not that involved politically but there's people trying to change things and they want what we want they what you want things to be better that was my turning point that's why i said i can follow these guys if my president says that they want what i want i got their back what does the clc represent to you beyond winning an election

2:25:25proof that there are leaders out here who actually support the city letter carrier what separates clc from simply being another opposition slate what we actually have goals that we want to actually implement we we have a plan that even if we don't all get in we're going to keep doing it we're going to keep fighting we're not going to stop if we lose we're not losing don't give me right we're not losing but even if we do we're not going to stop the fight we will continue educating we will continue pushing people up and helping them out that's what makes us different from the any other slate because we will continue doing it even if we're not in the position what would you tell somebody who says clc talks about change but every challenger says that the proof is in the footing we we're actually

2:26:29out here having podcasts we're actually out here looking over carrier other stewards contentions we're actually out here on the phone eight nine ten hours a day answering questions we are actually about the changes that we are wanting to implement we're doing it now we just want to do it on a national level scale with financial backing we do it for free today imagine what we can do we have actual money yeah what specifically changes if the clc wins training for sure we're going to have we're going to bring back that director of education the training is going to change we're not going to get keep anymore we're not going to let people be held down just because they support one person or the other we're not going to be about that we're going to be about the city letter carrier and that's what the nalc should be about if the clc weds it fails to deliver will alias civids publicly hold clc leadership

2:27:36accountable if i fail i will definitely hold myself accountable if people made promises and do not keep those promises i will hold them accountable publicly because that's who i am i hell brine rent pro accountable publicly i will fall i will hold someone on my own slate accountable for their actions i said that earlier well dislead me to this next question does loyalty to a slate ever come before loyalty to the membership absolutely not membership always comes first and they always welcome first why james hennory for president he has a vision to change the cl the nalc he has the ability to inspire people to actually come out and start fighting he i see that in the wolf i see that in james hennory he has the ability to lead he has with the nalc has needed

2:28:39for the last 20 years he's got a fire inside him that no other candidate i've seen pass what does he understand about rank of file coverage that you believe is important right now he actually listens to us he'll take your call it doesn't matter who you are he will listen to you he knows about the problems that we're having he's taken my phone calls before and i had to tell him about how the carriers are being treated in my region he's listened to be an earnest that's why i'm running that's why i'm on the slate because he heard my passion and said i can get behind all of you because all of you is like me he wants to change things for the better would you challenge shapes hennory if you disagree with him absolutely that's because i'm confrontational person i'm over the aggressive don't you know i don't know what gave that away

2:29:47if you're happy i at president hennory makes a decision you believe hurts region seven carriers what do you do i'm addressing it playing it playing simple you're not going to hurt my members i'm responsible if i'm the NBA i'm responsible for these people and i'm not going to do anything to hurt them you you can tell me to stop training i'm not going to stop training you can tell me i'm not going to pay you anymore i'll do it for free don't don't think i won't hey better that why quarry walted it's the same for hennory he quarry walton is me he has that fire he has the passion to represent he brings people out he brought me out i decide to push even farther than what i already was because of quarry walton because of his podcast spreading that education inspired me to spread education quarry walton is the best choice for evp playing in simple i don't care who it is

2:30:53i don't care who's running against them fried rollando can run against him i would still vote for quarry i would still support quarry hell i would even say vinson brodo could run against him i'd still vote for quarry i i have to agree with you i have to agree with you quarry is the backbone of this whole movement he is the backbone he starts absolutely he's changed he doesn't even know it but he is the he is the founder of everything he exposed this establishment he exposed all the branches that were failing he brought education he brought a movement together and he he inspired all these young cats to have podcasts we have dirty podcasts right now good i want to see a hundred yeah i want to see a hundred you know there's a saying good times make weak men weak men make hard times hard times make strong men strong men make good times in the cycle repeats itself yep we're in the

2:31:57hard times right now the stronger coming out the stronger coming out because quarry walton said i'm going to lead the way i'm coming out and you're going to follow me that's why we're coming out is because this wait he gave me the inspiration to keep the fight forward i want to do it quarry has built a reputation around grievous handling, arbitration and education how important was the background in earning your support i want to say it's not that very important mainly because he has the fire he could be those things and if he didn't have the fire i wouldn't support him playing in simple if he didn't have a passion for state of letter carriers and representing them i wouldn't support him playing in simple what do you believe james harry a quarry waltor break as a leadership combination ooh well i they definitely have their strengths and weaknesses right and they complement each other

2:33:01very well um quarry respect each other very well yeah they respect each other too and they're going to work together they're not going to like just you know abandon each other during contract negotiations right you know you know if james harry you know ends up i'm not i'm not going to go into that it'd be right i'm not doing that i'm not going to it's spelt milk i'll say you're going to happen like what like uh was that 2018 i'm not going to bring up what happened in the past yeah i'm not going to bring that out are they prepared to hear disagreed from people underneath them i sure the health hope they are because if they're not it's coming it's coming you better be ready for criticism if you're not ready for criticism you're not ready to lead yeah you're all just said correct about that what would you to be it from them if they are elected i did i'm

2:34:02one of the man that they do what they say they're going to do plan and simple you you set the bar i expect you to meet that bar and i expect you to exceed that bar bare minimum you better meet that bar because otherwise i'm one of i'm going to have to call you out he don't want me calling you out yeah why is twey twey six the bulb in for change because you have to change now you you can't wait you can't wait till 2030 that's why i'm running now i already told people i was running in 2030 i was planning on doing it and then i i sat with myself i sat i can't i have to run now it's too bad now if i wait four more years it's just going to be worse we have to change today you can't wait to change tomorrow it's not going to get better what is that stake it is election the future of the nalc and representation for carriers across the nation what happens it pretty what happens if carriers remain low

2:35:08participation remains low and most members simply draw the ballot away you won't get change you will get the same old same old if the active carriers if you are listening you have to vote you have to vote and you have to get your neighbor to vote you have to get everyone your office to vote active carriers need to vote on this the people who make all the decisions are on this ballot every single one of them makes decisions that affect you every day do not let this do not let them lose this election do not let the clc lose this election by not voting because if you don't vote the supporters for the other slates they're going to vote and we're not going to like the results if we don't have the right people leading do you believe members understand how consequential how consequential this election could be

2:36:15i think the ones that are on social media for sure know how consequential this can be but there's been such a disconnect for so long that carriers just don't understand the importance of leadership and that's something that we are working on changing that's why i go to general membership meetings that's why i i talked to people this that's why i'm on the phone all day because people need to know it's important plan and simple the the what the decision you make today is going to affect what happens to you tomorrow and we have to get carriers more involved because when they're not involved we're weak and we're only going to get weaker and like i told before the nalc will will destroy itself if the carriers stop being involved Elliott i want to finish this interview differently show up questions no care paid speech tell me what you actually believed carrier or politics carrier contract or covariance contract

2:37:15trading or gay keeping training arbitration or endless settlements arbitration transparency or secrecy transparency unity or loyalty to factions unity if clc is wrong if clc is wrong they're not if management is wrong they are management is wrong if you are wrong i will admit it what scares you most about becoming a b a actually having to ensure that i hold actually meet my goals that my biggest i'm i'm going to drag this one out my biggest fear when i first started running my told someone my biggest fear is is actually running and not being able to do what i expected myself that is my biggest fear plan and simple because i i want to succeed and i'm

2:38:23going to succeed but that fear of not succeeding is is going to be back there but that's a part of my drive what excites you most grievances what promise will you absolutely refuse to make during this campaign because you know you cannot guarantee it uh 100 set run rate arbitration what promise can you make to every carrier region seven there will be more training for formal AIS we will have more success in the agreement procedure four years from now what measurable results should members use to determine whether b a le and civids succeeded or failed contract compliance on the workroom floor membership unity confidence of of meant of uh local leadership ability of local leadership

2:39:28and finally there's a letter carrier sitting at the kitchen table with an election ballot they don't know you they never heard of your podcast they're not they're not CLC they're not part of anybody's political faction they're simply a city carrier trying to survive this job support their family and have a union that will fight for them they see two names on the ballot one of them is alia sevens why should that carrier trust you with region seven the floor is yours you should trust me in region seven because the status quo from the last from the current regional office is just not good enough you deserve better plan and simple um i i have plans out there that i'm plan i'm doing if you don't know about those plans i want you to just take a step back and look at what's going on in the region look at what's happening on your workroom floor

2:40:31most people are not happy with what's going on i expect most people to want change the vote for me is a vote for change a vote for me a support for table two a vote for me is a support for future and that's why you should vote for me alia i appreciate you coming on the hot house to be willing to answer difficult questions running for office is easy compared with actually leading campaigned requires promises leadership requires accountability and if the membership gives you the privilege of serving as national business agent remember something never forget the carrier who doesn't have a title remember the cca walking into the office wondering whether they're going to make it remember the table two carrier looking at their paycheck wondering how they're going to support their family remember the stuid sitting at their kitchen table and midnight trying to understand the j cam and build agreements because nobody ever properly trained them

2:41:34remember the carrier who received discipline and believes nobody is listening remember the small branch that doesn't have money resources or experience advocates those people won't care about political factions they won't care who sat with whom at the convention they won't care who endorsed whom they're going to care about one thing what i needed my union was my union there if you become mba and never become so never become so important that you forget the person carrying the satchel never become so experienced that you stop learning never become so powerful that you stop listening and never surround yourself only with people who tell you you're right because leadership isn't about having people follow you leadership is about giving people something what following you talk about education then educate you talk about an operation that prepare people to fight you talk about membership participation that give your carriers a reason to

2:42:38participate and when you make mistakes and you will own them learn from them and become better Elliott your message throughout the campaign has been keep fighting so i'll leave you with this keep fighting what you're winning keep fighting what you're losing keep fighting what people praise you keep fighting what people criticize you but above everything else never forget your fighting for the letticaria brothers and sisters educate yourself ask questions challenge every candidate read the that read the material examine the records and when the ballot arrives participate in the u.u.s democratic process this has been the hot house with rich array knowledge is power stay educated stay involved stay united and as brother Elliott sepits would say keep fighting brother's sister's keep fighting remember hot house loves you and hot houses be rich array stay blessed brother's

2:43:41sister's peace out