Danielle with… Selena Hamilton

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm Gemis Bay, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships and attachment.

1:03Sometimes our biggest decisions without us even realizing it aren't driven by what we truly want but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks

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3:16Welcome back to Danielle with a podcast born from my own desire to be the world's best celebrity ballroom dancer. Worth noting, for at least one more week, I am the world's eighth best celebrity ballroom dancer. But who's counting? Well, I'll tell you who's counting. The new batch of celebrities just announced for season 35, hungry for their chance to win the show. What a lineup, right? We will be getting more into that soon because the ballroom is about to reopen. So I hope you are getting your pyramids ready and your score cards printed. But before we start thinking Alfonso, we do have a little next pro business to close out. As you know, along with my good pal, Val Schmerkowski, I recapped every episode of the franchise's newest reality competition. And as a result, we are going to be seeing Adele join the pros to fight for the Mirabal trophy in 2026. It was an exciting season and brought us a finale where any of the three final contestants

4:18could have won. And so today, I am talking to one of them, a fan favorite who defied the odds and took it all the way to the end, despite lacking extensive ballroom experience yet flanked by two genuine experts in the field. She's performed with Dochi, Lindsay Sterling, Sombra and Eric Huff and appeared on lip sync battle. But you may know her from the wildly viral Katzai Gap commercial that took the world by storm last year. And now she may not have won next pro, but her infectious smile never give up attitude and exceptional dance skills are ready to take her to the next level. But first, she's stopping by Danielle with. So welcome to the show, third on the charts, but first in our hearts, it's Selena Hamilton. Thank you so much for being here. I have been very invested in the Selena Hamilton story for the past eight weeks. I'm a huge fan, as I mentioned. So thank you so much for coming on the show.

5:18No, thank you. I'm a fan. So first, I want to talk about your actual ballroom experience. Yeah. We know Adele is literally a top 10 dancer in the category. AJ competed on the show already in the UK. That is a daunting finals, considering your expertise is in contemporary tap jazz. So let's set the record straight. What is your actual experience in ballroom? Yeah, it's definitely not where AJ and Adele's experience is. I've been very transparent about it. It's not really a secret. I started doing ballroom with Derek Houghtor. I toured with him in 2022, three years ago. That's what sparked my love for ballroom in the first place. I've done every style here and there growing up.

6:18That's just what the commercial world is all about. I've dabbled in ballroom, but it wasn't something I really took seriously until there's more. Yeah. That's when I really went into it. You should really do it. I think it would be a really great pass for you. At first, I didn't take it seriously because I just wanted to stand this commercial world and do hip-hop. Sometimes I regret it, but then I also love what I experienced doing ballroom. Doing commercial work. Definitely started ballroom later and then dove into it about two, three years ago. That's when I took it very, very seriously. Then I got the call about the show and I was like, oh my God, I have to take it a hundred times more serious than I've been taking it. I flew to Utah where all of the dance stars' pros are made. When I think of Utah, now I picture just ballroom dancing in the street everywhere you go. Yes, I see that everywhere.

7:20Literally. I was like, where should I go? Utah. All of the pros are produced there. I wouldn't want to be in the heart of where it all happens. I went there for two months and just trained every single day for about five hours a day and just cracked down on it because I knew I was going to be behind. You basically had a dancing with the stars experience from the other side where you were the celeb coming in every single day, all of a sudden, five hours a day. You're like, teach me everything you know about this style. Yeah, it was crazy because it wasn't just about the style of the dance. I obviously, I also wanted to learn how to teach somebody else because that's another part of it. I was like, so in two months, I need you to teach me everything you know about ballroom, but also teach me how I can teach it. Because ballroom came a little bit more natural to me. Sometimes it's hard to teach when you're, it's something that comes natural to you.

8:22It's hard to explain things to people and be like, so you're going to have to push off your foot here. But like, yeah, it's hard to explain to somebody who you never had to experience going from the ground up. And it just, it's a whole different beast. So I was like, you need to teach me how I can explain body action to somebody and explain my foot action when I, I don't know. I just watched you and I got it, but that's not the same experience for everybody. Well, and what I always talk about when I think about how difficult it is with what the pros do is that you're teaching the opposite moves. Like you've never done the male steps. You've only done your woman steps. So now, not only do you have to, you know, do what comes naturally to you, you have to explain something you don't normally do to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Yeah, that's a whole other added layer. It's so insane. And I give all the pros like such props for it because it's a really hard thing to learn.

9:22It's like you're doing the opposite lay. You're instead of going forward, you're going back. So it's a whole, it's a whole new beast. Yeah, it really is. It is, I mean, there is nothing easy about anything you guys do. Did you know any of the other contestants or pros other than Derek prior to the show? Yeah, I did. So I knew the contestants. I knew Breyer. Okay. She obviously came from the same world as me. And I knew Stephanie a little bit. She kind of does commercial work as well. So I knew Stephanie. And then I kind of just knew of Venge from the convention commercial world. Okay. But that's kind of the rest of the contestants. I was just going in blind. But as the pros, I knew Jenna from convention and I knew Val from convention. They were people that I always really looked up to in the convention world. I really love that they come into the convention world and teach us what their knowledge is because ballroom is not very, I mean, it is now, but at the time it wasn't very like nobody

10:27was really seeking ballroom as much in the convention world. Yeah. So I really always appreciated them. I think that's it though. Yeah, Derek Val and obviously I competed against Riley. Right. Okay. And I was younger, but I never really got to know her. Okay. Are you nervous at all coming into this experience just feeling like you knew ballroom wasn't your lifelong expertise and you've been having a real moment in the convention and the commercial world. So were you nervous kind of trading it all in for this experience? I was nervous, but also I feel like my expectations weren't as high because I didn't have all the experience everybody else had. Right. I was kind of ready to kind of show everybody what I had for episode one and then call it today. Yeah. So I didn't have the, I didn't have the expectations because of that. So I think it kind of helped in the long run because I wasn't expecting such like high things out of myself. I was like, you're here to kind of just, I wanted really to just get my face in the ballroom

11:32world. Yeah. I did this so I can kind of step into it. I was like, if I don't walk out of this winter, that's fine. Maybe they'll want me on truth. Like I really kind of just walked out with like maybe I can just get my foot in the door. Connections, good connections surrounding yourself, especially if it's something you want to start doing more regularly surrounding yourself with people who do it at the highest level. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. I wanted to eventually I want to be like I wanted to be a pro. So like if I, if I didn't win, I was like, I'm going to get there. If I won, I mean, I'm there. So it's like there wasn't a loose loose for me in this situation. Right. Right. I also want to ask you about your cat's eye commercial. It is an iconic dance moment of last year. And it was not only everywhere on TikTok, but it was also on the Dancing with the Stars floor. Thanks to Riley and Scott. What was filming that like? Did you have any idea it would be that big? I feel like in the moment, no, I didn't know it would be that big, but I will say the

12:33process was kind of, it went by fast, but it was really hard because we're in. If you saw the commercial, we were in like this just white box. Yes. And we were in there for hours. And so once you're in that white box for a couple hours, you're kind of like, oh, somebody go get me a white like I'm starting to feel dizzy. Like I don't feel okay. Right. So that was probably the hardest part of it, but Robbie Blue, the choreographer, is somebody that I've always looked up to. He's amazing. And that was like his like time to shine. And he always is coming up with brilliant work. And it's funny because like that one move that like got really famous, you see a move and you're like, oh, that's good. And you don't know like to the extent of where it's going to go. It obviously went, it went viral. It got huge. And you don't think that in the moment, but in that moment, I was like, I kind of want to do that. Right. So it kind of starts like that. That's so cool that like, because I've been there before too, where you see something and you go, ooh, I like that.

13:34And then the next thing you know, you're like, oh, okay. There was a reason I really connected with that. It was going to literally take the world by storm. Yeah. Wow. Well, on your very first performance of Next Pro, Shirley called you a superstar. Mark said that you were in his top four on day one. What was it like to hear these types of comments from them so early on? I definitely think I needed it. Yeah. I feel like that was something I really needed. Going into that first challenge, none of us knew what to expect. And so I kind of was just like, I'm going to learn this choreo. I was like, in the back, if you watch the first episode, I'm in the back learning the choreography from Derek. Yeah. And he's kind of like just like, you can tell he's kind of a little bit nervous about me kind of being in the back. And like, because he does already know me and he has expectations for me. Yeah. Where I got nervous when I found out Derek was going to be the first one to come in.

14:37I was like, okay, he already has high expectations for me. He knows what I can do. And I need to show what I can do. And they didn't show it. But the first episode, Derek walks in and he just was like, I need more. You're just walking in the beginning for my solo. And he was like, you can do so much more. And I just like, I broke down crying because I was like, I know I can do so much more. But also, I want you to believe that like, I want you to believe that I can do this. So it was kind of just a hard time for me. So after Derek came in, I was like, you know what? I always do a forward roll. That's who I am. Like I'm always going in with a forward roll. So I kind of started it. Like that was like, let me just start with that. I was like, there's pros and cons of doing that. Shirley could either hate it because it's not. Samba. Yeah. Or she can love it because I'm also being myself. And I'm going to add Samba obviously later. Course. Of course. Not Samba content. Yes. No, no, no. And it ended up working in the long run. So when Shirley called me a star and Mark said I was in the top four from the beginning,

15:40it kind of just was like this validation that I needed in that moment. I was like, oh my God. Thank you so much. I honestly don't know how to feel right now. But thank you. That means a lot to me. I when you were talking about what the feedback Derek gave you, it made it, it gave me that feeling of like when your parents say, I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed. It's a point in your life. You're like, I'm going to please rather you be mad. Please be angry. Please be furious. Do not be disappointed. I don't want to let you down. Yeah. Well, we saw Tristan, who was another contemporary hip hop focused dancer run into issues at almost every stop trying to keep up with ballroom. And yet you found your lane rather quickly. How do you think you were able to do that? Are you just the fastest learner? I will try myself. I do learn fast. Okay. That is something that I've always, and I think it's because the conventional world helped me with that. Okay. And I think that's kind of where me and Tristan's training is a little bit different. Is he was a hip hop street dancer from the beginning.

16:41Okay. And I kind of, when I was young, I learned everything. So I kind of already had ballroom under my bell. It was something that I could just kind of use as like my show off moment at like auditions because not a lot of people can do it. But I also try to hone in on other people. I feel like even just in a way, we stand. And this sounds really weird. But in the way we stand, I wasn't just, it's funny because surely actually critiqued Rire about this our first episode about how she was standing. And they kind of like zoomed in. Yeah. And they kind of zoomed in on our feet. They're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. So I kind of like, that's how I would stand too. But I kind of was like, okay, what is Adele doing? Right. How is Adele going to stand here? Because I know she's, she's a ballroom. She's a ballroom queen. So how is she standing? I'm going to copy her. Yeah. So I'm just like honing in to like those little things and just kind of faking it till I make it. Yeah. Your brain must go a thousand miles an hour because hearing you say that reminds me of

17:44just early in this conversation when you were talking about in two months in Utah, trying to learn, you need to teach me everything you can teach me about ballroom. But also I'm going to learn everything from you about how you're teaching me so that I can teach someone else. And I was like, for five hours a day, for your brain to never once be able to just go boom. Like you are just absorbing everything. Even when you're not learning choreo, just looking around and taking in, okay, that person who's been doing ballroom their entire life is standing this way. There must be a reason for that. I'm going to do it too. So smart. Have you been a dancing with the stars fan for a while? Not like the like not probably as long as these people that have been watching me it since, I mean, I think the first episode was when I was born. So yeah, it's until it's an older show. Yeah, it's been a really older. But I, it's funny because I started watching it and getting really in love with it before I got famous on TikTok.

18:45Okay. Yeah. I got really famous and it was, it was really nice to kind of see it grow on TikTok because obviously I'm at the age where I love TikTok. I'm always on TikTok. I'm, I'm using my thumbs all the time on TikTok. So it was really nice to see it grow and I was also on tour with Derek during that time. So it was nice to kind of see the behind the scenes of it and also see it from the outside perspective as well. So I kind of, yeah, I was really grateful to fall in love with it before it reached like where it is now, which is, yeah, insane, insane. It really is. Who would be your dream partner? Ooh, I say this all the time, but Ilya Mnillin, he's a finger skater, yeah, he's quite soft. I'm like so obsessed with him. He did this like piece when he did the Olympics and I just fell in love with it and he like had a hoodie on and I was like, it was so edgy and ever since that moment when I watched

19:46that, I was like, oh my gosh, if I became the next pro on Dancing the Stars, this is who I would want my partner to be. I also just would love a figure skater. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, you are such a fan of Brits to work and Johnny Weir, her first partner, right? Yes. Yes. And so you are probably right that figure skater is probably the perfect first. Yeah. Who is your favorite male pro? We know Brit, who is, by the way, you know this because you have now met her worked with her. I spent quite a bit of time with Brit on tour. She is the most lovely, graceful, smart, strong, confident. She is just the brightest light to be around. She really is. Oh, I cannot say enough wonderful things about her. She's so amazing. And yeah, Brite is definitely the word I would use.

20:49She is just a bright human. She walks in on like, I noticed her right away. I'm like, oh, there's Brit. Yep. Like, she's just, she's hard to find. Yes. Yes. She's hard to lose. She's, you see her right now. I've never really heard of it. I'm not a lot of people are like that. Rare. Right. Yes. Absolutely. So who's your favorite male pro? This one's kind of harder than picking my favorite male pro. Because the thing is, my heart has like a special place for Val. Yeah. Val loves you. So I like, oh, you know, especially for Val. Yeah. Especially because I did watch like your guys' podcasts together like every single night and my mom was really obsessed with it. And just hearing what Val had to say about me like, I was like, oh my god, he is the sweetest. And he really did write for me a lot of times and I really appreciated that. So Val will have a special place for me. Okay.

21:49And then it's hard. I'm taking Derek out of equation. Okay. Derek Derek, of course. Derek could leave. He's just now. He's a judge. He's not in the mix. Yeah. He's not in the mix. I'm going to go Val and Mark. Okay. Val and Mark. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, everyone. It's the Jonas Brothers with the Hey Jonas podcast. We've been catching up with some great friends Paul Rod, Michael Bubley, Seth Meyers, Nile Horan, Jake Shane, and making some new friends while getting into what's really like to have sisters like Alex National. She likes to control everyone and tell everyone to do that. Okay. Well, control is a harsh word. I would say that's a harsh word. I am more outspoken. Growing up a lot of the times because she was so quiet, I would speak for like the both of us. I'm working on like thinking of Mom and really not thinking before I speak. And Joey King. You know, if your like mom is yelling at your sibling and even if you're annoyed with your sibling, you just like won't let that slide. It's like, you only can yell at your sibling. I'm like, you can't do that here. That is not what I'm talking about.

22:51Like that. I just want to talk about it. Plus, we've been taking your calls, listening to your voice mails and giving advice or at least trying to. So if you've got catching up to do now is the perfect time. Listen to Hey Jonas on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version

23:53of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

24:55Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society. The weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. So like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

25:59Listen to Pro's Society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Buy a driver in a cell at least 70% have a phone. School is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for black girls. We spent real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all this end up. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that a road's trust. They're belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted and then they're fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers sitting down with therapists, cure gains on black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage.

27:03You don't have more shorts so you can't do flips, you have one to dress up across your legs. That's the range of this run from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. How to get off our device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in the life to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to therapy for black girls on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. So there are a few moments from the show that really have stuck with me. And I want to get into the finale and a little of this extra post script stuff that's going around online. But first, the slap heard round the world. Stephanie accidentally hits Natalie. And I think a lot of people were shocked to hear that she had, well, they don't know,

28:05I don't know that they ever even said what she had. She had a small concussion and had to drop out. At the moment that it happened, did it feel that did it seem that serious? In the moment, no. Yeah. In the moment, no, because things like this happen all the time. Right. So in the moment, it was just like, okay, yeah, she's, let's keep going and then she'll be okay. Yeah. Because we were all kind of under that pressure that renew we were going to have to show the judges in a couple, not even in a couple hours in like two hours. Right. So we were all just like, okay, she's going to get taken care of, we focus on us and she'll be okay. And they didn't show it, but she came back. Oh, she did. Okay. She tried to dance, but she had to sit down. She was, her vision was getting blurry and it was just like, okay, you're not going to dance in the group dances. It's too risky, but they'll judge you on basically what they've seen already.

29:07And then she left and then we didn't see her until me and Tristan were at the bottom too and we found out none of us are going home and we're confused. Right. You were like, yeah, we're confusing. And then they say Natalie's going home and we're like, that's when I realized it's that serious. Wow. Yeah. It was, it was, because I felt very much the same way. It was like, okay, these things happen even watching. I was getting a little nervous that there was so much effort and energy going toward her and I was like, guys, you only have minutes. You have minutes. You got to get back to the dance. She's going to be okay. We all have been whacked, you know, doing something. We've all had that happen. So then, yeah, to find out that that she was going home was really shocking. I had no idea it was so serious. What is the worst injury you've ever had while dancing? I've had two serious injuries and I feel like the most serious probably I fractured my back. Yeah.

30:08A stress fracture, but I still danced. So I made it worse. I know, I know I shouldn't have. I was on tour and I only had like, I was in rehearsals and I did like this jump and I landed and it just didn't feel right. And not that it was very painful, but I just started crying because I was like, something is not okay. And we have to go on stage in three days. So I was just really stressed. I got the MRI back. They were like stress fracture. I was like, okay, I still have to go on tour. Can you put shots in my back? Is that what they did? Did they also give you steroids? Yeah. Yeah, I just did steroid shots in my back and was like, I need to just, it's only a month. Like, I'll be okay. I just had to push through it. I don't want to let my team down by kind of just dropping out when we have three days left. Ooh, yeah. I know. Wow. Are you still at that night? No. Yeah, that one still affects me a lot. There's still some nerve damage from dancing on it. It's something I'm still in the works figuring out. It's been like two years now since it's healed, but it's something even in ballroom that

31:10affects me. When I'm in frame, we have to go back. And yes, it's from, it's not from your back. You shouldn't be arching from your back, but it's something that's still straight on it when I'm there for a long time. Totally. So it's something that now I really want to work on because ballroom, you really have, like, want that mobility. And I just feel like I don't have it at 100% yet. And that's something that really bothers me. So something I'm definitely still trying to work on. I know for me, I loved being in frame. It was so much fun. But I have a bad neck. And, and, and hold, you know, trying to get that banana shape, where you're really far. I can do it because I have really good back flexibility. But the neck, it's like my head felt like it weighed a thousand pounds. And if you're in that position all day, every day, and then you get a stiff neck, it's just like, yeah, and it's funny because a lot of people that do ballroom professionally, there's like one side of their neck is like a little bit bigger from the last ball.

32:11Oh gosh. Yes, I don't want that to happen. But yeah, it's just like that position for so long. It's like, yes, you get a pen I heard. I know. When Val talks about like, I've heard him talk about it so many times when he talks about like whether or not somebody has the threshold, like a pain threshold, I don't think people realize truly how much pain tolerance you have to have, you make it look so easy that people just think, well, no, no idea. And it's not even just your body. It's also like your feet getting blisterers and your brain is so like, you're like, I have to go back and learn more. Yeah. It's like little things that people don't think about. Yeah, your body hurts, but also my feet have blisters all over them. And the back of my heel hurts from my ballroom shoot. And my neck has a huge kink in it and I've got a stretch fracture in my back. And now I've got to go shoulders down, smile on my face, lots of personality. Yeah.

33:11It is, I mean, it is, it's a lot. Okay. So we had Stephanie also on our podcast, Val and I had her on our podcast. And we thought maybe she got the short end of the stick being the only dancer eliminated as a couple. Do you think had she not been in a situation where two people had to go home? Do you think she might have ended up in the finals? Ooh, that's really hard to say. Yeah. It's hard to say, but I will say what I do know is I think if it wasn't a double elimination that night, she wouldn't have been the one to go home. Right. And I think if she, if the circumstances were different, I feel like it was also hard being with a partner that you didn't choose right away because there's always going to be that like little like, sorry, I didn't make you right away, but let's try to do this. And there's always, there's going to be that grudge. So that was something that just wasn't working already. Yeah.

34:12So there were hurt feelings already. Yeah. Yeah, there already hurt feelings. So I think in that double elimination, I think everybody kind of already had a feeling of who it was going to be because it was circumstances. But I think if the circumstances were different and maybe Alan just said yes to her right away, I think she would have still been in the competition for sure. Yeah, I agree with you. And I told her that. And I was like, I really have an issue without episode. Yeah, because I don't know if that makes it her feel better or worse. I know. I know it is. It's like, you're not so I know. I don't know why. Yeah, it's like it's hard. It's not a hard situation. Okay. Here's my prediction for season 35 of Dancing with the Stars. The argument of who much dance experience is going to rage on as always, but a new one will enter the ballroom too. And it's going to be about wow moments. I think the expectation for big viral moves is going to be higher than ever.

35:16And you were the queen of wow moments on the show. Where do you think they fit in on Dancing with the Stars? Do you think people should be attempting a wow moment every week? If it comes naturally, I feel like wow moment is so it's so hard because it's so subjective. And it's everybody has a different view of a wow moment. I like me and Eric retrying to really make the silence a while moment. And it obviously that Eric in the bus. Yes. I mean, it was so it's like very subjective. And everybody's going to have different opinions. And like look at me and Eric's dance is probably the most viral dance out of the wow moments episode. Yeah. And it's just funny because obviously the judges didn't see that coming. Yeah. Or they probably would have judged differently. But obviously, viral is always in the back of your head with how big TikTok is.

36:19It's always going to be there. But I think it just comes naturally. Like I had this one thing with yawn that now people are falling in love with. And it's like I did like these little ticks on the beat. And everyone's like those ticks, those ticks. And it was just it wasn't something that in the moment, I was like, I have to do these ticks because I know they're going to go viral. Right. I heard the music and I was like, ooh, this would be cool. I know what to do here. I heard it and I was like automatically I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And it just happened to be something everybody else loved too. Yeah. You know, I'm glad you mentioned that dance with Eric. You said you had listened to the podcast Stepanonto's with myself and Val. And so you know how Val feels about that dance. You loved it. When I watched the episode, the only thing that I took away from it that really bothered me and I want to know if it bothered you at all. And you can, if not, absolutely no issue. I mean, you can already know what you're going to say.

37:21And you a couple of times and you know, of course with the magic of editing, they could have not showed you saying, I don't think our wow moment is there yet, but they did. I at least twice heard you say, oh God, I just, I don't feel like we have it. I don't feel like we have it. And Eric was saying I really think the, the wow moment is the silence and Val completely agreed with him. Completely agreed with him. And you were very much agreeing kind of with what the judges ended up saying. And yet then at the end when they put you guys on the spot, who did this? Eric was like, it was both of us. And I wanted to be like, sir, if you don't take responsibility for this and saying, you know, honestly, Selena said a couple of times that she didn't think we had it. And I really pushed for the idea that the silence was our wow moment. How did you feel in that moment?

38:21Okay. A lot of feelings. Okay. But I knew at the end of the day, he didn't force me. And I didn't force him. So yeah, there was a couple of times where I was worried. And I was like, oh, like maybe we just like even though it felt artificial, maybe we just, I can quickly just throw me in the air really fast. And then we can call that our wow moment and then let's go on to our dance and maybe you'll feel a little clunky. But the brief will be there. So I kind of just was like, yeah, I don't know if you have it. I don't know if you have it. But actually Danielle came in and like Danielle came in and she, she loved the silence of the dance. And so it kind of reassured me a little bit when Danielle came in and she was like, I love how silent it is. I love that. And so that kind of like eased my heart a little bit and we feel a little bit more like, okay, we're not on the wrong track. Right. But maybe this is something between bounce off of.

39:23She likes the silence. Maybe, maybe you're right. Maybe this is the wrong moment. Maybe this is what it's all about because contemporary is that. I mean, it can be so many things in this song that we're dancing to feels so like there's a piece of the dance that feels kind of like empty. Like you can feel her heart is just, she's going through something and it feels like like, she's so her and she's empty. Like I just, that's the only word to describe it. Okay. I think after Danielle came in, I was like, maybe you're right. Maybe it's just, it's that feeling of emptiness that she's feeling and that's what we could use in this dance. Well, that's a very mature answer because you're right. I guess knowing all of that backstory, knowing that, you know, there were more conversations where you were like, you know, maybe you're right. Even if you didn't express, say that out loud, but like that feeling of like, you know, maybe this is a me thing, not a, maybe, and maybe the song choice doesn't lend itself to a more specific while moment.

40:24And, and the song choice lends itself to this silence being the while moment because you, I was thinking, man, she's a better person than I am. I would have been like, absolutely not. It was this guy because I do think had he taken more credit for the decision to not put in a while moment. I don't think you would have been in the bottom two that week. I don't think and I don't think Eric would have gone home. I know. And I think about that now and I'm like, yeah, I see it now. Now that I watch it back. Yeah. But in the moment, obviously, we were all distraught in like, it, because elimination has never happened like that before. So we were all kind of just taking a back and just like, oh, I don't, yeah, I take responsibility. Yeah. I think it's the bottom two, but looking back on like, ooh, I think if one of us, even if it was me took responsibility, I think one of us would have been in the bottom. Yeah. Someone else would have been in the bottom. Yeah. And I don't know if one of, I don't think we would have gone home. Yeah. I, I agree with you. Would you have always predicted that AJ and Adele would be in the finals?

41:29Is there anyone else you would have thought was going to be standing next to you? Ooh. I definitely could have predicted AJ and Adele in the finale. Okay. But I also could have seen Alan there. Yeah. And also Eric. Eric is somebody from the beginning that he had a lot of training under his belt. And I truly believe he's a great teacher. So he's also somebody, but personality wise, from just first episode, I thought Alan Adele and I knew AJ already had been a pro on trickleys. So I just thought that was, that was a given. And how close everyone got during the next pro season. Who did you have the hardest time saying goodbye to? Who did you feel most connected to? Ooh, that's a really hard one. Mm-hmm. And you guys, it's not even because me, Alan, Eric and Adele were really close in the house. We, we really built a special bond with each other. Um, I think I'm going to go ahead and say Alan.

42:32Alan, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I think Alan, luckily I got to view Adele and the finale. So I didn't have to say about her because she was really, she's, she's still my best friend. Like I talked to her every single day. So it's funny, but it just like felt like, and this sounds really harsh. It just felt like they were dying. Mm-hmm. Because you didn't really get to say bye to them. You kind of, what you guys saw on the TV is all it was and then they had to drive away and we never got to see them. And it was like, it's like a chapter of your life. Don't they have to pack? Don't they have to pack from the house before? Re-pack before. So yeah, every single time before an episode, we have to pack already and be in case you're the one. They're like, everybody pack your stuff. Yeah. And it's like, ooh, yeah, I'm, there's some, there was some links where I packed bad and there was some links that I was like, yeah, I got a pack good this time. I need to make sure I have everything. Really? Yeah. What do you think is the week where you were like, this is it, this is probably the end

43:35for me. Ooh, I think it was group work. Group work, okay. Group work was where I was like, I really, let me check every drawer and make sure I have everything because I might not see this house again. Yes, that's you, but that was Brits week, right? Yeah. Which was, it's sad because that was the week that I thought would be my, my week. Like I thought that would be my week to kind of showcase myself. And it's funny because all the weeks that I thought would be the weeks that I showcase myself were the ones that I was at the bottom and the ones that actually were my worst weeks. It was group work in the while moments that I kind of was like, I feel the most confident in these thoughts. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. And so, you know, you were, you were paired with Adam Ribbon and only given three days to put together two dances, a feat, Val even said is basically impossible.

44:37What was that pressure like? Oh, my gosh. Crazy. Also because you have to think on dancing with the stars, you're kind of building up with your partner and you kind of get to teach them from ground zero to the finale. And so you already have a connection with them. You already have kind of some content that you can bounce off of. Like for freestyle, I can be like, remember that what we did for week one, let's kind of add that in a different way. And you kind of already have that. So to just go from zero to 100 in three days is extremely, it's a big ask. It's a big ask. But I also had, maybe I'm just saying this because I'm biased. I think I had the best partner for this challenge. I really do. And I got a finger skater. Yes. I wanted from the beginning. So I like the stars were just, they were all aligning in that moment. And I just, I got to finale.

45:40So I wasn't going to give up. I wasn't going to give up. I already, I'm in the finale. I made it to the, to the last challenge. Yes. I did them all. Why would I give up now? So it was kind of just like, let's fight, let's keep fighting. Even though I had those, I had those, I had those times in rehearsals where I kind of just was like, oh my god, my brain hurts. There was something that I planned ahead of time that didn't end up working out. So I kind of have to rework the whole thing. And that's just, that's just what it is. There's something that like, I thought the footwork would work here and it didn't work here. So I have to redo the whole thing. And I thought this lift was going to work because sometimes my mind, I think I can do insane things. And then in reality, it just doesn't work out. Right. Especially with only three days. With three days where if I don't have it right away and if Adam doesn't have it right away, it's cut. Exactly. It just has to be cut because the time country have, if we had two weeks to work on it. Of course, I probably would have worked a little bit harder on those moments.

46:43Yeah. There was one move that I ended up doing that I did not scratch. And I look back and I do regret not scratching it kind of. Really? Yeah, we kind of, we did pivot turns at the end of our drive. And it just was a little clunky. But it got to the point where I was like, I either take it out, I add a new section and he forgets it and it's not going to work or we kind of keep the clunky in there. And maybe it looks not the cleanest, but we have the choreography at least. Right. So that was like a moment where I'm like, should I have, I go back and forth, should I have just changed it last minute? And did one of the judges comment on the pivot turns? Because I remember them, there was a comment about the pivot turns. Yes, Derek actually commented on the pivot turns. And in my mind, I was like, Derek, Derek, why no, this is finale. Let me have fun. And I already know it's just I was, I was going back and forth with it in that moment too. I was like, do I keep these? Do I not keep these? It was kind of just like this balance of, ooh, is Shirley going to not like that we

47:45didn't have this connection towards the end and we did a kick section. And she gets upset about that. Or do I keep it in? And somebody else, it's like, I just was going back and forth and I didn't know what to do. And in the long run, it didn't work out in my favor. But it was just, it was three days. I, and two dances. It was, but you also, just to also let yourself let go of that, you also don't know that had you done the alternative, it would have been better. It could have been that he forgot it all together. And then you have a partner who's not even remember what his choreography is. That's probably worse. Exactly. So, yeah. So I do not keep it because at least it's something I can kind of lead with it. So I can kind of just drag his body around. There he is. As much as I can. Okay. I want to get a little into the AJ drama. Yeah. From your point of view, what was AJ like behind the scenes? Because we saw some bravado, some ego on camera. Is some of that a put on character or is he really like that behind the scenes?

48:50I would say how he's on camera is how he is off camera. Okay. Maybe more so. More so. Yeah. I feel like for the camera, it kind of dives down a little bit. And there's kind of like, it's funny. I think everybody feels this way too. So it's no secret. But it's kind of like when you start that, you say that action and you're in a different character. I would feel like that's kind of my best way to describe AJ is once the cameras are on. He's very aware of the cameras. I feel like since he's done it before and he's been on reality TV before, he knows when the cameras are on. And not a lot of us had that experience. So when the cameras are on, we're kind of just like, oh shoot, I forgot. And he didn't. He didn't forget they were there. He knew when the cameras were on. He knew when they were off. Did you have any run-ins with him that weren't aired on the show? Yes, actually. We only had one that kind of wasn't. Obviously, they didn't air like the story, hope it that we talked about our stories.

49:52But honestly, that wasn't really. I had a lot of love for AJ and those moments. And maybe in the long run, I was like, that probably wasn't the best way to handle everything I should have just fought for my story a little bit more. But later on, I realized that when he kind of told Adele that he's like, Selena can't teach, she's not going to be here very long. And Adele was my best friend. So I was kind of just like, Adele was like, she told me in the sweetest way too. She goes, I don't know if I should tell you this Selena because I don't want this to make you feel bad. And I don't know if this is going to make it better for you and the concert room worse. But I wanted you to know from me that AJ said this to me. And I just wanted you to know when I go, Adele, thanks for telling me because now I'm going to the finale. Yeah. I go, thank you for telling me because this was well, it was super fans week. And I was like, thank you so much for telling me that because now I'm making the finale. Me and Jeremy are getting this. I was like, I am locked in and that's the fuel that I needed.

50:55So I was really grateful that honestly that that moment happened because I don't know if I would have been in a finale. So honestly, thanks AJ. You're a little bit low. Yes, thank you AJ. Sometimes your haters are the people who deserve the biggest thanks because they really propel you forward. And yeah, if I didn't have that, I don't know if I would have gone to the finale. I don't know if I would have had as much fight as I did after that. Yeah. Well, yeah, because I mean, hearing about your schedule and the fact that you guys don't have phones even while you're there and there's very little sleep and you're not allowed to rehearse in the times that like hearing all of that, it would be very hard to consistently maintain the same drive. So you know, at some point you just start to get tired and go, you know, if this is my week, it's my week. But then something like that happens and lights a whole new fire. It's your whole new drive. Were you surprised at all to see the drama that has recently come out online between AJ and Riley? Don't you know, you weren't going to speak for free.

52:02Yeah. I didn't really have any of those five, I didn't really think it goes well either way I didn't know that it wasn't going the smoothest away. Okay. And I think we all knew AJ enough to know that what he was saying was just in favor of him. Right. So it was kind of just renew something was going on. He would just kind of come back and be like, Riley's not giving me anything like this up. And we would be like, they're not supposed to. They're actually supposed to be silent. They're not supposed to give us any, that's their job. And we would kind of say that and he'd be like, yeah, but like this isn't this. And so it was just like, we kind of knew. So I wasn't surprised. Okay. I was surprised that it was AJ's wife doing it instead of AJ himself, but I wasn't surprised. Okay. Got it. Also, I do think it's so funny to hear that he was annoyed that Riley wasn't giving him anything when on the show Whitney.

53:05So you could see the boys were definitely the worst. The boys, they were not listening as much. They were definitely like me and Adelwood talk after and. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, young, young, young, young, young, they were trying to help and they couldn't. So the producers would just be like, stop, you can't do that. And they would be like, sorry, sorry. And then they would stop. But the girls definitely took it a little bit more serious, which makes so much sense. That's just, yeah, that's the nature of being a woman, apparently. Literally. Yeah, we listen and we follow rules. Yeah, that is so funny because I mean, we really called it out that you could tell it was very hard for Whitney in particular to not give us anything back. And yet that was the brief. So, you know, do you think the next pro experiment worked? Should they do it again next season? I absolutely think they should do it. I just also think it's cool because Adel, for instance, she won and everybody got to see her growth from the beginning.

54:07And I think that's so beautiful that we don't really get to know the pros. We usually get to know stars and we never get to see that behind the scenes of what it really takes to be a pro. And now everybody knows and now everybody kind of can stand behind Adel and be like, we got to see her grow. We got to see her from the beginning. And I feel like that's so beautiful. And I'm also happy that I got to see Adel from the beginning and now I get to see her just thrive on dancing with the stars and stand behind her. Now she'll have that band base, I guess, in those people standing behind her kind of just 10 times down. That's such a good point because the people who, the pros whose stories you know are the pros who have been on for a long time, like Val. People know Val now and they've seen him go through an entire journey starting extremely young to where he is now. And this was a bit of a shorthand. It was a cliff snouts of investing you into the pros, getting to know them a little bit

55:11so that when they come onto the show, you already feel like you have a vested interest in you know who they are. Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers with the Hey Jonas podcast. We've been catching up with some great friends Paul Rod, Michael Bubley, Seth Meyers, Nile Horan, Jake Shane, and making some new friends while getting into what's really like to have sisters, like Alex National. She likes to control everyone and tell everyone to go. Okay, well control is a harsh word. I would say that's a harsh word. I am more outspoken. Growing up a lot of the times because she was so quiet, I would speak for like the both of us. Now I'm working on like thinking of Mom, really not thinking before I speak. And Joey King. You know if your like mom is yelling at your sibling and even if you're annoyed with your sibling, you just like won't let that slide. It's like you only can yell at your sibling. I'm like, you can't do that here. That is not what I want about her like that. I just want to talk about her. Plus we've been taking your calls, listening to your voice mails and giving advice or at

56:12least trying to. So if you've got catching up to do now is the perfect time. Listen to Hey Jonas on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Beniero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip,

57:14I hope you listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. I'm bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments. Nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

58:14Listen to Pro's Society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's see you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. You just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts

59:20or wherever you get your podcasts. Buy Asia Rather and Arsola at least 70% have a phone. Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for black girls. We spent real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. It's literally physiological and neurological, psychological chaos happening all this end up. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that a road's trust. You're belonging, you could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted and then they're fitting in. Fitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists, cure gains on black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have more shorts so you can't do flips, you have on the dress here, across your

1:00:21legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. You have to get off her device, but the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adult in the life to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to therapy for black girls on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. For you is the dream of being a pro on dancing with the stars in your past or is it staying on your vision board? Oh, 100% staying on the vision board, that's not leaving. I'm already in the studio like training because that's not a dream that really goes away. And if it does go away that fast after not winning, then wasn't really a dream. I don't know if that was really your dream.

1:01:22So it's 100% still the dream. It's something that I really do still believe that I can do. I'm not going to back down and I'm still so new to the journey. So when I didn't win, I wasn't like, I'm done. I worked so I worked too long for this to not be here. It would be different for AJ who's already been on Strictly and he's been doing it for a long time. Maybe he's like, yeah, I don't know if this is something I want to do anymore, but I started three years ago. I'm not going to give up now. I'm going to keep fighting. I'm only, I mean, I'm 22 now. I just turned 22. My gosh. Like two days ago. Maybe happy birthday. Thank you. Are you the 29th? I'm 26. So it's like, okay, I don't even know what day it is today. But like this week last year's. Yeah, so it's just, it's definitely something that I'm still going to fight for and I know that I can do, especially at such a young age. Yes. As somebody who learns so fast, I think I can be there at no time.

1:02:26I just need to, I just really need a crackdown on my, really my fundamentals of ballroom. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. Looking back, what would you say you are most proud of during your time on the show? No, you, this is like a really sentimental, good question. I mean, I'm really just proud of how I worked under pressure. It's something that you don't really know you can do until you're in it. And I walked into this being like, yeah, maybe I'll leave first episode. But once I went past that first episode, I was like, oh, should I have to do this? I'm really nervous. That's kind of when my nerves started to kick in after I made it past that first round and was like, okay, so I have to dance with the part. Like now it's when it really started to click and I was like, okay, this is happening. I don't know if I can do this. So knowing that I could work under that pressure was, that was like just a joy.

1:03:30And it's funny because I feel like I worked better under pressure than I work without the pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's never going to get harder than what you experienced on next pro. I mean, you know, dancing with the stars is difficult. But next pro was amped up even more. They prefer you. They really do. Adele is going to be probably going into it one of the most prepared pros. 100%. 100%. She's also going to be exhausted because she's basically had like two back to back seasons. I know. But, but I have to tell you, Selena, you are, I cannot wait to see what you do moving forward in your career. I know you are going to make it to being a pro on dancing with the stars. You are obviously extremely, your IQ is high. But what's even more impressive to me is that your emotional intelligence is so off the charts high, your ability to talk to people, to handle people, to see situations from so

1:04:32many different sides, to be graceful, to have grace, to give grace. You are such a special person. And I just cannot wait to watch you continue to thrive. And I'm just endlessly excited for your future. So thank you for sharing your vulnerability with us. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. And we can't wait to see where you go in the future. Thank you so much. It was so amazing talking to you. Likewise, thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

1:05:41I'm Julie Pignero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita trading the pity for possibility. Listen to solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm Gemis Bay, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions without us even realizing it aren't driven by what we truly

1:06:41want but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture.

1:07:44With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.