CuriosityCast Ep.40 - Middle Child With Jamie Potter

0:00Now then, it's Burnty and welcome to our regular Curiosity Podcast, the Curiosity Cast. Every episode, we take questions asked by members of the public in Hull and try to get them the best answers from the very best brains in the city. Not all questions are about Hull and they can be about whatever you want to discover. For this episode, it's a welcome return visit from Hull's new writing theatre company. That's new writing. I said that right, but we'll get there, so yeah, I'm digging a hole already on this episode. We'll get to our guest very shortly. Middle child theatre is what we're talking about. After some 15 years as a very pathetic organisation, they're in the process of moving into their very first permanent theatre on Humber Street. This is exciting stuff. It'll be a huge and hopefully successful move for one of the most innovative

1:03and lauded theatre troops in the country. Here to talk about it and all things, Metal Child is audience development manager Jamie Potter. Jamie, welcome back to the Curiosity Cast. Tell us about your new digs. This is exciting stuff. Yeah, very exciting. Yeah, so we've taken over, what used to be a hair and beauty salon on Humber Street, 69 Humber Street, before that it was the home of fruit trade music. It's building on the corner opposite foreign feast and art and soul and we're turning it into a little 65-seater studio theatre. It's also got our offices there. We'll have our theatre library, which is a collection of 21st century plays, like New Writing. Yeah, it's going to be where we're going to start putting our performances, rather than, as you said, being here there and everywhere across the country, across the city, from carparks to nightclubs to theatres, we'll have our actual base of our own. Was it something you were looking for or something

2:04that just popped up randomly as it were? Yeah, pure happenstance. We used to be based in an old warehouse down High Street in Bon 31. Last summer we found out about this building becoming available on High Street. From Wichland, who were already our landlords at the time, and I guess a little lightbulb went off above our heads and we thought, hey, we could do some of it here. So yeah, we've made inquiries and decided, like, literally in a matter of a few weeks, we agreed to take on the lease, had to pack up the bags, pack up the boxes in the old space, all while trying to produce a festival in some of last year, move into this venue, start applying for funding to do the building work out of you. So as we keep saying to people, kind of building their playments, we're flying it, but having a lot of fun doing so. So what's it going to do for you? What's the hope and the dream? I think a big thing for us is, I guess, the ability is a producing company. So we've loved touring work and making work for unusual spaces, site-specific work, but it is very hard to sort of have to create a theatre from scratch every year. So like

3:10last year, we did a show in a car park. We did a play called Python Point, which was about road rage, essentially. So that's why we decided to do it in a car park, something a bit different. It felt, it fit the themes of the show, an interesting way to get new audiences in. We toured it to all the car parks around the north as well. It's a huge success, but it's a lot of work building a theatre in a space that shouldn't have a theatre in it. The year before that, we did a wedding show in a marquee on stage at the dark again, great performance, great production, but we find every year we're having to put a lot of effort into doing these unique stories and unique spaces. You had costs a quite a lot before you even stared then, yeah? Yeah, exactly. If you think about a marquee, I can't remember the cost, I'll top my head, but maybe take a grand for a couple of weeks, just have a marquee before you even think about lighting, sound, all that kind of stuff. I've got to sell a lot of tickets for that. Yeah, exactly. It puts up your income targets. Having a space of our own just means that we have a space. We don't have to build it once.

4:11And we can plan ahead in the future. We know the size of the space, we know the type of work that it can accommodate, and we can think about that when we're commissioning writers in the future as well. You're saying you're the type. I'm going to go first. I am. No, go on. No, that was a bit aggressive. It's just there's a question in the curiosity cast from Marking it. Marking it, you find in the other groups, don't you? Oh, he's got a soul coming. Never seen that before. Mark makes a point. Very pertinent in terms of what you were telling us. We'll have in a permanent home and not create in theatre in unusual venues. Mean future plays will be more traditional. No, I think we're still, we're still being very carefully about, well, first of all, what story is are we telling? As you said, we're a new writing company. So for us, for audiences, that means that we commission writers to write players have never been met before. So we're very, you know, thinking very carefully about what stories do you want to tell? They have to be interested in exciting ones that

5:12have something to say about the world today. And also thinking about, like, in terms of the form, the genre of the words, like, what can we do with that? That will be interesting even within that traditional space. So there's still a lot that you can do in a traditional theatre space. So like, last time we did work in a theatre, there wasn't panter. That was modest, our sort of drug king cabaret inspired show about Victorian artists a few years ago. We did that whole truck and that, you know, that was a cabaret. It had drug kings. It was really live in your face. It wasn't like typical theatre, if that makes sense. So yeah, it's understandable question, but I think as a company, that's just in our bones to think about how can we make this a special night out for people. I guess the last couple of reductions, fighting point and the one in the market, there were in the round in effect, weren't they, because you had the audience all round. And whereas this will be more directly proscenium, is it cold, where you're just looking at the stage? Yeah, head on. The stage in is going to be slightly the same every time, I guess, is it?

6:16Yeah, it will be, yeah, it will be in that sense. But also that's kind of like a creative challenge as well as like how can we make each other different, like sometimes actually having a restraint, like that can be really exciting creatively, creatively. It's like, yeah, what can we do within these boundaries, within these parameters? Like, yeah, how do we make it different? Was that your question? No, no, I was just like, because in Germany's keep saying we're going to, we're going to, but you did have the pencil in there. The Christmas didn't you? No, the panel was in social, down on the street, because you got the building ready, yeah. Yeah. So while you were with me, butting in, I really apologise to everybody involved. That's second nut. You can edit it out so you don't look a part of the one. No, nothing you can. You can clip the end of Jamie's answer and part of yours. It will be behind the scene stuff here for the list there. We've got behind the curtain. I edit it as I go, and I don't think, I think a clogged off we don't love a dog. Not for the first time. In Gipsyville says, if you have a permanent

7:17home, will you be sending the plays on tour after opening your new premises? Yeah, good question. I mean, that's always up for grabs. If people want us to take it on tour, like, you know, can we do that? We've spoken about, you know, could we, touring could mean anything. It could mean, you know, going around the country and ending up in London or could mean going around the neighbourhoods and whole. There's lots of amazing community spaces, community centres, pubs, venues, spaces like that that we've done working, particularly like right back to ours who are amazing at, they've taken our partner out a few times. We should be really lovely because we get to meet a new audience and maybe we wouldn't come down to the Humber Street. So yeah, it's up for grabs, basically. It will depend on the production, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Do you get other things that companies or other venues in the country ringing you up? So we've been to see this particular show bring it here. Is that sort of stuff going on for you? It does. It's been a bit different recent years. So that's where, like, the Edinburgh Festival has been traditionally, like, a huge, like, showcase, I hate this word, but like, marketplace. It's a bit of that kind

8:23of how we made our name nationally as we take work. So Edinburgh, that's like the entire industry is there for the month. They're seeing what work they can program for future tours or for transfers. So transfer is when you take it to a tight one venue and you kind of sit there for a few weeks. So yeah, that's how we made our name nationally. And since then we do attract like people to come and see the work that we do in whole. So that does happen, but kind of getting into like the whole sort of issue of like funding of new writing at the moment, which is also part of the reason, like we're excited to have a venue of our own. And so it gives us a bit of a sureness that, you know, we've got a space that we can put work in and we can start to make a difference for our own. And we'll actually start to program other people's work, like, locally as well. It's going to be a space that we can hand over to like young new companies who've maybe got, you know, a little show for two or three performers that they want to put in front of people. So it must free up a lot of time and resource is knowing that he's going in that space and you aren't going to reinvent the thing every time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, not reinventing the wheel every

9:24year. It's a big boon for us. This is the obvious question, but when do you actually open what's the plan and what's the big opening show? So we open in May this year. So only a few months away. And we're starting with a show called Isabel by Mark Graham, who's actually a founding member of Middle Child. So this show is commissioned before we'd like to cover the venue, but it's kind of like a nice little coincidence that it's kind of like come full circle for Mark in particular. He's also the party, he's party breadcake, he's our partner. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. So it's going to see a very different side to him of this show. So yeah, it's called Isabel. It's set in a middle class family on the other news, who come together at Christmas for the first time in ten years. And Isabel and mother kind of drops his bombshell on her kids about don't give it away. I worry about it. It touches on inheritance and that kind of thought in the issue. It's teasing us. Teasing us. Teasing, yeah. Teasing. Really new in. How long are the runs going to be? Are you going to be consistent or will it depend? So this one with Isabel

10:27we're going to have about three weeks of shows, which also new for us because if you're doing, see when we did the show in the car park, we could only for tap the marquee for a couple of weeks. So that includes getting in and doing all the technical rehearsals before we even do performances. So by the time you've done the shows and words got around, it's finished. Whereas this time, we'll have an extra week of shows. So hopefully, you know, words spread, we get the word of mouth. It's going to be a great show. People thought to see it. So I take it, you've not gotten an official start date yet because this is a building project and you never know we're building project. When quite they're going to finish, is that scenario in play at the moment? It is. But it will be, it is near enough there. We just like meckin tweaks to things really. So the show will up on the 15th of May. All right. Yeah. And when will tickets go on? So within the next couple of weeks. Yeah. We just need to make sure that there's how many seats will be available. It's just yeah, little things like that. You don't want to off a cell. Yeah, like, you know, like airplane, like right now, they do, like, you don't want to do that. Check the lawyers. Yeah.

11:33You can do it like, I've seen something there. They try to do a plan into cell stand-in seats for airplanes. It wasn't a jerk. It was not serious. You're going to have stand-in seats for the crackers, isn't it? So the 15th of May tickets on sale shortly. Soon, yeah, very soon. Keep, keep an eye on our social media and what have you? This juncture I'll, I shall, I shall do the housekeeping a bit and then we'll get to some more questions. You're, thank you very much for finding us. This is the curiosity cast from Curiosity Home. Our guest today is from... Hold, you did it again. I knew it. I knew it. My brain's gone. When it tried to reach something, my brain's gone. Yeah. Energy just drops on it. I think it's the very vocals. Jamie Potter is here from middle child. We're talking about their new premises. I think, I don't know what's going on here. But anyway, do your editing magic on that day. We'll start that again. I'll just remind you that you

12:39can send us your own question to the curiosity cast and to curiosity. We'll answer it either in the next podcast or in the content you can find on the curiosity social feeds. So messages, www.curiosityhold.co.uk or find curiosityhold on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and Blue Sky. Jamie Potter is here. From middle child's theatre, we're talking about their brand new venue, which is taking shape and the first show is on May the 15th Downhumbestreet in Hull. Rebecca in H.U.3 in the Anleby Road area, false. Is it true that Hull's first theatre was on Humbestreet, Jamie? Well, I don't think it was a first theatre, but there was an amazing theatre or two theatres actually Downhumbestreet called The Theatre Royal, which stood there in the mid-late 1800s and they actually burnt down. Both of them. So the first one was built in... To a North Colour Theatre Royal.

13:41Theatre Royal, yeah. And the first one, oh, it was 1855, it burnt down, then they rebuilt it a few years later and then 1865, I think it was burnt down again. Are you doing a piece of work on this? We are actually, yeah. We're doing sort of two projects that we'll work side by side, so we're really fortunate to receive some funding from the National Lortary Heritage Fund to sort of reignite a pun there. Hull's theatre history. So part of that is looking at The Theatre Royal Downhumbestreet and we're going to be making a play about that next year called Let It Burn, which will be in our space on Humbestreet. This is going to be like a screaming fast, which had been one month you've given a style show about putting on a show in this theatre on the night that it actually burns down. So to be setting the Victorian time, you know, you kind of like standard Victorian big characters, you know, like theatre managers, people running around trying to get a show on the road,

14:43that kind of thing. Where about on Humbestreet wasn't? So the theatre Royal stood on what is now social and Humbestreet gallery. Yeah, right in the middle, yeah. So if you actually go around the back of social, there's the the smirk house. Yeah. And there's a blue plaque up there to commemorate it. But it was an incredible building. It was it seated the second time the bill it seated about 2,300 people, which it is huge. Yeah, like I went down to the National Theatre just for Christmas to see a show there in their main space, the Olivier Theatre. And that's I think that's about 1,100. So like 2,300 is great. And there would have been a few theatres in all them, weren't they? They would have been the only ones. So there must have been a huge crowd for theatre back then. Yeah, definitely. There was a quite few theatres. I think it's a Queen's Theatre, which is on Paragon Street. If memory serves me right. I know Angus has done a thing about it for about a few years. Is it the Palace Theatre, I think? That's a flicker while you continue to talk. Yeah. So yeah, very stairs. It was, you know,

15:45not TV about them. So it was a big source of entertainment for people. And we know the theatre royal there having like two or three shows a night, doing sort of one of the bus performances. Lots of kind of like melodrama and music. Opera was quite big. Lots of comedy. Like we've seen playbills and posters in the history center, like detail in what performances they had. One was built as a screaming farce, which we're going to steal for marketing later, but next year. You mentioned the lottery funding. You've got funding for another project, haven't you? Which you're taking out, don't you? Yeah, so alongside that show, we're doing a show, sorry, doing a project in the England Road Estate in East Hall. So we found out that there's quite a few residential streets, there are Persewall streets that are named after London theatres. So they're based off the Savoy Road, which is quite the big street there that's got the library and lots of shops in my area. There's some residential streets, like Apollo Walk, the garrot clothes, Phoenix clothes, all the sharing names of London theatres. So we thought

16:47there's something in this. Let's find out about the social history of these streets. So we're spending roughly the next 18 months there, meeting residents, finding out about their experiences of living, growing up on the estate, living there, what their relationship is to the theatre and performance. Not just started in January, and we've already found out, like, learn a hell of a lot, which is really exciting. And that will culminate with us, making, designing a mural somewhere on the estate with a resident. Oh, a mural. I was thinking you're going to say and we'll have a show or something like that, but it'll be a mural. Yeah, it'll be a mural, but this will go on at the same time as the late burn performance. So we'll kind of speak to each other. Well, have you found out? I have an info blast, cast a view of our correspondent, Angus Young. It was the second theatre in Hull, was the theatre role, Pat Collins Angus, and it says it held 1700 people, the modern news, I think. Yeah, the first version was 1700, and then it built a second one.

17:50And the first venue he thinks was the King's Head in High Street. The reason there wasn't a venue in Hull for many years. The first player was performed in 1473, and it was no room to flood, and it was performed outside Holy Trinity Church. And at the time, or 1599, Hull was governed by a group of older men who were Puritans at the band players. So there was no place for years and years and years, and no parent theatre. So, yeah, this is where it gets really interesting, like, the social history as well. So, like, that kind of change in the Victorian area with Queen Victoria's sort of granite, royal patronage of the arts. So, up until she sort of took an interest in it, it was often seen as, I think, like, actors were considered like vagrants who were just, like, dosing around and moving from town to town and weren't really taken seriously. Little has changed. No comment. But yeah, that Queen Victoria kind of got into it and kind of gave it the seal of approval and helps, like, with its popularity. And I guess that's why you see, like, theatres

18:51springing up in the 1800s. Yeah, and they're dubbed after hair and royal list that. The other is, well, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So, there you go. That's interesting. No, no. So, you can check that on the Curiosity website and get more from Angus' article. Soch. And theatre. Yeah. On Curiosity Hull, that guy that you can. And that piece. You'll find out more about it, yeah. It's all, man. Fan you are educational. No, we are educational. No, we are educational. That's not, that's not rest on our laurels. Well, I can educate you further. I want to go over the roof of the list. This is where, you know, we've been chatting with residents and even just in a few weeks we've learnt so much. So, we've actually already learnt that, so the name, after theatres, but that actually comes about from the last fatal bombing in Hull in the Second World War. So, Savoy Road has actually named, initially, named after the Savoy Cinema. Oh, right. Yeah. Which was the location of the last fatal bombing in Hull.

19:54And they initially wanted to name these streets, which were built in the 60s after the 13 residents who sadly lost their lives in that bombing. But they didn't have enough streets to name them after all 13 residents, you know, we need, everyone gets a street or nobody gets a street, yeah, which is unfair. So, they took the inspiration from Savoy to actually choose them after the London theatre instead. But then also, so you have Shafesbury Avenue, I think it is our Shafesbury Road, of Savoy Road, which is that existed before the estate and that was named after the Earl of Shafesbury, who is a philanthropist in the Victorian age. And he's the same guy that Shafesbury Avenue in London and the theatre and named after. And then the story of Crescent, which is nearby as well, that also existed before these personal streets. And that was named after this story. It's now a bingo, all on Hull in the throat, but that was a cinema back in the day as well. So, yeah, like, we didn't know that, but like, been working with residents and learning from, you know, all their memories and such. So, 13 streets and names are named after theatres.

20:58I remember when he was 13, because, or will it? No, because there was 13 dead, there wasn't enough streets. Ah, right, yes. We must have filled the again. Equal to all that stuff. So, what I'm taking from that is I'm educated, but it's the community's I've got five old levels of a very moderate grade. Sure does that. Sure. Yeah, I'm educated by what Jamie's told us. So, I should have completed that. But what I'm getting from that is the community locally are buying into it. They've found out about the project and they're all over it. Yeah and when we announced it, we had so many emails calls for messages on social media from people saying, I grew up on this estate or my granddad lives there and he's got all these stories to tell and we've had people there at the library every week, Beth, our engagement

22:00producer, doing amazing work, like me and residents and hearing their stories. I mean, this one's really special about this. It is capturing that really social history that probably isn't going to appear in the papers of record in London or whatever. These big published books and what have you, but as a company we've got the privilege of being able to spend time with people and what we're going to be recording people's old histories and because this is a personal street is within living memory that these streets were built and that people moved in and some people have spent their entire lives on those streets and I mean a lot to those people, other people have since moved away but have fun memories. It's all about using that theatre connection to spark something bigger. Have you had anybody come forward who's related to the people that sadly lost their life and the solos in them? Oh, good question. I'm not sure actually because I've not been there. This is one of the days, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't tell you to be honest, but I imagine early amount of time there was some kind of connection to either people who... I'm sure it'll emerge. If you are listening to this curiosity cast with Jamie Butter from

23:05middle child, go to Inx Library and you can get involved in this, which we've done filming at Inx Library and all sorts of stuff. There's also a connection to Count and Theatre, which you mentioned and James Bond in there. Oh, it's there. Because John Barry, the composer, is dad on cinemas around York and eventually branched out and bought so in all. I think he owned three in all and John Barry used to travel with him to these various theatres so he lived for a while above Count and Theatre. Oh, wow. I mean then went on obviously to write the music for a load of James Bond films. Yeah. Oh, great. Yeah. Paul Skullfilmer, the film about that, which is on curiosity. You know, that's... Yeah. There is a link, direct link to James Bond in that area. Great, yeah. I guess running it as well. Well, obviously running it. Yeah, it's all on the low connection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it holds got a lot to talk about in terms of, you know, cultural history that I guess a lot of people don't really know much about. Yeah. Do check out the curiosity back catalogue. There's all sorts of fascinating stuff over there. So you haven't a permanent place. He's already paying off. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's creating an

24:06oral history of theatres in all. Yeah. If he'd have had a permanent place last year, he could have had an oral history of fighting in Carpenter. Road rage, yeah. Of which these loads of runs over that, you know, so he would have been careful. Julia in hole in H.U.5 on the avenue says, have an idea for fresh ink. What's the best way of making my submission stand out? Maybe first Jamie York to explain what fresh ink is. Yeah. So fresh ink is annual playwright and festival. So the next edition is in July this year, 18 to 19 to July around the fruit market. So we, yeah, it's just a celebration of playwright in but through very much like a local lens. So we open applications every year and this year of commission seven writers who have a meaningful connection to hole. So I think most of the people live here, others have from here and maybe studying or now moved elsewhere but he'll still have an important part of them. So they're all writing, they're going to write two drafts of new players for us and then we're going to perform

25:06them scripting hand at the festival alongside a series of workshops and talks might have you. That's good numbers actually, finding seven potential new playwrights isn't it? Yeah, to me, it seems good numbers, isn't it? Yeah, it's really nice to sort of, like these appeared commissions, like this is paying writers to make new work and that's actually where it is about the player that's going to open in May, like that came through fresh ink. So we performed that in the very first edition in 2024 and like the audience loved it. We loved it. I thought there was something special there. So we decided to take a chance on it as a full commission. So it's already like paying dividends as a, like, no, that's why we started the festival, trying to find new work that hopefully can go on to feature on our stages. So in terms of going back to that question, applications for next year will open after this year's festival. Right. Okay. So you make it stand out. I think was the question. Is there a way of making it different? Oh, yeah. It was what's the best way of making mice and mission stand out? Oh, okay. Oh, do you go for the person or the idea?

26:09I think like the idea. So the way we do it, we have our, our literary manager reads all of the players. We have somebody helping him at another playwright, like reading the scripts. So, well, it's not full scripts. You just submit like a short and extractive you're writing and explain what your idea is, like, why it's important to you? Why do you think it's important to people of whole and their short list them? Then we have an independent panel of, like, other theatre makers and, like, funders and what have you. Who are, like, all discussors together as a group and then decide as a group. So I mean, it's just very much about like, you know, we're interested in ideas, stories, players that have something to say to people in whole. And they don't have to be, like, middle child style works. I know we kind of got this reputation for, like, rock and roll, it's a bit punky political or all that kind of stuff. But it doesn't have to be, like, a show in our style. It's just something that's truthful to you. It has something that we've not seen before in whole as well. When a full page do it, I'm not doing one day. Don't look at me like,

27:10I'm not, I'm, you know, mediocre at levels. The last one you wrote was a Spice Western. That's never going to get caught there. You've got to, you've got to pair it down a bit, you know. I think I find great. He had horses and all that kind of stuff. Ridiculous. Quick one from Darren in Hezzle. Does having your own theatre mean that middle child has finally become part of the established? Oh, yeah, that's the question of being everywhere in the middle, middle child to be delirged. Yeah, yeah, I turned 40 this year, it just feels, you know, weird. No, hopefully not. Like, it's a chance for us to do things our way as well, which is something that we've always done. Like, we work a four day week, for instance, like, you know, we're not doing a nine to five when they're to Friday. Like, let's look after ourselves and not burn out. And, you know, we really care about people as a company and how we, like, the work and practices that we do, like, have already said, like, the work that we're interested in is, you know, we still want those stories that are new that haven't been told before, that

28:11have something to say to people in whole. So, yeah, just because we have a spare something, like, I guess it's just another opportunity for us to, like, do things differently and do things in a different way and ensure to people who are doing things elsewhere. Like, you know, you can look after new writing. Like, again, this is where it comes from. It's like, funding for new writing. It's really had a few of players that I haven't before, like, been made, um, like, no, it's from scratch. So, it's really important to us that we nail our colours to the mast and get behind writers and, like, yeah, show the value of theatre, really. It's, it's fantastic. We wish you all the best with it. May the 15th. May the 15th. First ever world exclusive is a bell, by Mark Graham. In Hullsham. In Hullsham. New is theatre, which is, I can't get enough to say it now. It's pretty exciting, yeah. Jamie, we wish you all the best and everybody in the middle child theatre. Just check out the website. I take it and people search middle child. Yeah, middle child theatre. Do you care? Because people will want to be at this new work of art. That's it for this episode of Curiosity

29:13Cast. Uh, thanks to Jamie Potter for coming in and keeping us abreast of what's clearly a very exciting time for middle child theatre. Uh, remember to keep in touch with us via curiosity hull.co.uk or follow and friend us on the socials where we're curiosity hull on all the main feeds. We'll be back very soon with more quality answers to whatever questions you'd like to ask.