Culture Club: Paul Noonan

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1:00The Last Word On Today FM It is Wednesday's edition of The Last Word and it is time for the Culture Club. I'm delighted to say that Paul Ninn is with me. He's got various different hats musically at the moment. Pilgrims very much on the four at the moment, Paul, because the tour is coming around. For people who might not be familiar with Pilgrims, it's yourself, Brian Crosby, who would know as co-founders of Bélix-1. But you guys have got a tour where we're still talking about in a second. Tell me about Pilgrims and how Pilgrims are maybe different to some of the other acts that you've even evolved with. I think, you know, Brian and I are very old friends. And we went to school together. And we kind of, you know, with the other lads in Juniper, which was the sort of first iteration of Bélix-1, we kind of fell in love with music together, you know, as teenagers. So that's a very sort of formative and indelible thing, you know. And, you know, Brian left the band 10 years ago, and then he lived in Berlin for a long time.

2:01But we stayed close and we stayed in touch very much. And he was making music for film and TV out there. And then he made his own record of piano instrumentals called Embryum, a couple of years ago. And I remember listening to it. I really wanted to sort of give it the attention that it deserved, you know, because, you know, as a teenager again, falling in love with music, I would buy a record and I'd take it home and lie on the floor in a darkened room and put the speakers between my ears and listen to it in that very sort of immersive way. And I kind of fall in out of that habit. You know, I rarely listen to music without doing anything else anymore. So I listened to Brian's record like that, and I just found it really moving for lots of ways, you know, I think the fact that, you know, we'd been such close collaborators and then sort of hadn't done that a long time. And for him to sort of put out his first sort of, you know, full album of solo music was,

3:08you know, it was a really beautiful record. And I found myself singing along to a lot of the instrumentals. And I just recorded one of those sort of like warbling along things and sent it to him on WhatsApp by way of, I love this record and I'm really proud of it. And I suppose that opened the door to us kind of working again. You know, he was really touched by that. And you know, that became actually the first single, the first pilgrim single, my bones are scaffolded. So we did a couple of shows on the back of that one song and then thought like this more to this, let's get together and swap ideas and make a record in this sort of almost sort of cabaret sense of piano and vocal and keeping it very simple and keeping it to that sort of template where we could tour it easily. So yeah, he's like Brian's got a beautiful studio in Meclo and he's kind of really got in the hang of the recording end of things as well.

4:11So we recorded most of the songs there and then he went to back to Berlin to record the strings. And yeah, we've been touring. I think a lot of this is actually as middle-aged man trying to hang out. It's the getting in a car and going and doing gigs. And we're playing in theaters that have their own pianos. So it's very simple. We rock up and do a sand check and then might have a nice dinner and do a nice early show. Get form a seated theater with an interval and stay in a nice hotel and just have that sort of man-shed on the road sort of vibe. It sounds like it's very enjoyable reconnection then because it's almost like life gets in the way in a way. Yeah, I mean, I suppose somewhat analogous to not being able to listen to music without doing other things. You're busy. If we've both small kids and your life definitely changes when that happens.

5:11So yeah, it's been a lovely reconnection. We did a lot of shows back in February last year and we're playing Concert Hall on Saturday Week. It's the big one. And then we're going to London and Paris and there'll be some more shows next year. Yeah, Concert Hall before we play the Pugumseur Beautiful venue. Yes. Yeah. Intimate but beautiful. Yeah, yeah. And I've a long connection with the Concert Hall. My first music outing was in the Luchon Concert Band as second flottest. Not even first. Second right. Second comes right after first as Buzz Aldrin would say. So it has real and we would have done Christmas concerts there for many years as the Luchon Concert Band. And I've been writing in residence at the Concert Hall for a long time and I've collaborated with them on various projects over the years as well. So it'll be a lovely, a lovely, a lovely, a lovely residence doing the Pugumseur there.

6:11Those upcoming concerts are on the 12th September National Concert Hall here in Dublin. S.J.Q in London is coming up the week after on the 17th and then on the following night it's a quick hop across to the Irish Cultural Centre which again is beautiful building. It was over there for the Olympics a couple of years ago in Paris which is a lovely place as well in the 18th. You can get the tickets for all three at Pilgrims.Music Online. So you can pick them all up there. Let's have a listen to a bit of Pilgrims. This is my bones a scaffold. Make my way to the ocean deep. My own company I keep. I wouldn't know what day it was. O'Reffo's right hand. And that's okay because it's all a change in.

7:18Into my new life and lean. But I'm featured in the proper diet. Feel the weight of the ocean deep. Stretching above me. I want to each light glass of the sea. And lose my edge so gracefully. Pilgrims getting ready for those concerts. National concert hall London and Paris over the next few weeks. There's also a talk to you about Paul obviously because a musician's life changes as they go along. And then I wonder what you've been doing in recent years. I was reading about some of your work in music therapy which I want to ask you about as well. You've been going around to school kids particularly in the city in Dublin. And also working with some people with dementia as well. So tell us a bit about that. Yes. So I. I suppose what got me into music therapy is I read a book by Oliver Sacks who's a neurologist. A book called Music Affilia where he talked about how music.

8:23I played a role in in rehabilitation of. A lot of his patients would have had acquired brain injury or neurological disorders of various kinds. And how music played a role in his work. And it was just fascinating how music and the brain and the sort of the neural pathways that music takes that are quite different to other cognitive pathways and function. So I didn't know the music therapy was a thing I suppose then. And I from reading his book I realized it was and you know having played shows and being sort of immersed in music and and feeling the power of it for so long. I suppose I part of my motivation was was surely this sort of goodness for wonder where it can be deployed in sort of other settings.

9:23And in sort of clinical more. I suppose targeted ways. So yeah, I trained in in in in in in in you well as a music therapist and. I suppose got to. Got to understand how music does what it does a little bit and learned sort of the skills around. And to help people in as you as you said with people living with dementia people living with the quiet brain injury. Children with autism children having had a lot of sort of adverse childhood experience. And yeah, I've been for the last few years. I've been working with with kids here in the inner city in Dublin. And also in a nursing home in Dublin eight. So I think I've had a lot of groups of of people who groups of residents with dementia or various again neurological conditions.

10:28So yeah, it's a it I feel like I've had a lot of unlearning to do you know because it's not about me performing often with a guitar and hand, you know, my instincts are to sort of. This is a little gig where it's really isn't you know it's about it's about facilitating others. Journey with music or others expression. With music or sometimes with the children it's it's about sort of just creating fostering trust and fostering positive adult interaction. And in the hope that they might share things and feel comfortable expressing themselves in that way. So music is sometimes secondary in those settings. But yeah, it's been hugely rewarding and it's not something I thought I'd ever do. I I'd had to kind of feel the fear and do it anyway a little bit. I felt still feel a bit of imposter syndrome I suppose. You know and I could because it needs to be taken seriously as a clinical intervention because there's loads of studies and evidence as to how and why it works.

11:29It's less adopted here within the health service as it is in other countries. As a serious intervention or or or therapy is part of a suite of of of therapies within within various clinical and community settings. So yeah, it's I feel a certain responsibility to sort of do properly and not just be sort of digging around with music. Which sometimes it can look like. But I sort of always have to check myself as to why I'm doing what I'm doing and how I can justify it clinically. But yeah, it's it feels like I've kind of grown another musical limb in in in in that sense because it's very different to the act of. Of performing and and making records. Yeah, because I was looking forward as well that essentially your kids come along that's the moment when I guess no way you're thinking. Okay, how do I make sure I continue to provide financially for the family at the same time it's like what's the next chapter going to look like? It's a weird thing because everyone kind of assumes you know particularly when like Alex one more massive or like kind of 20 years ago. You kind of assume that's all you're ever going to do you're going to be torn along with the band forever more the money will keep on rolling in.

12:31Yeah, but you have that moment where you probably have to think about what's next as well. Yeah, I I um I remember feeling you know when we had children I was like this is a new chapter and I did feel a little provider anxiety. I suppose go up to that point. I had no real idea and what I made or much I spent or much I needed. I was very sort of kind of irresponsible attitude. Most musicians would say they're completely reckless with the money. So if the checks are coming through it's like, yeah, happy days. I'll just spend. Yeah, were you in the same category? A little bit, but also. I mean you have to. I think I've diversified not just because I needed the money. I think it's just it's just staying engaged and busy. I feel like that's why I've I've kind of ended up doing all these different projects and different things. I think most modern musicians do that as you get into your 50s. It's like really you're still in the one band. I mean good luck to you then amazing if you can do that. But I've always felt I've kind of wanted to do different things.

13:38Well, it's also that possibly is we get into your picks down a second where things could become quite stale if you just continue to go around to or around with the same band. Say previous albums that's fine, but at the same time creatively it's not the most exciting thing to do. I suppose it's it is hard to keep it. Let's you know. I mean we've well, it's one of always we've never really had a sort of Stalinist five year plan. We kind of come together. It's pretty instinctively when it's time to make a new thing. There's there's sort of I don't remember ever being sort of like oh we have to make a record now because we're touring in this slot. And therefore the record needs to be hidden at this time and to sort of promote the tour. You know it's all been a little bit sort of probably to our detriment. It kind of music led where we can feel like we've something to say and we don't tend to make records if we don't. Yeah, it's a two and a half if you just say right, well we're planning to tour in 2027 so we got to get something out of Christmas. I mean, often that's the way and you do have to think ahead, but we've always been a little short termist maybe.

14:44So let's get back then to when you were sitting down on the floor in the darkened room and the music was allowed to surround you. It wasn't like now where we're consuming everything through our phone and headphones and maybe on public transport when we're taking music in. And back to the very first music that you remember buying. So what's the first that saw you handle for your good money for a record at some point. So there was a Nortee compilation called non stop pop and it had the song The Lion sleeps tonight by tight fit on it which I loved. Having seen that on top of the pops, I think it was probably nine or 10 years old. And so I bought that record having seen that that song was on it. And there was a lot of other like it's it's what introduced me to you too. There was the you two song on that compilation New Year's Day was on it. Which that was kind of the start of my kind of love of you too. And yeah, the lion's leaf. So I don't know what drew me to the song initially it was it was a love to top of the pops that was real sort of appointment telly in our house for many many years.

15:51So that was the first. Yeah, we'll play a bit in a second, but it's when I think with this it's amazing. We watched top of the pops and actually seeing you know the bands performing a lot of across and so on as well was a door open in many ways to maybe different music. The more they would hear it home. And then also in that kind of period obviously the radio would have played a big impact in terms of what was people were listening to now people probably hear about me using a slightly different way its algorithms. It's you know what's being shared by other people or AI almost society listening to a different time and just known from the telly and you go. It's actually I'm really interested in that. That's all that band. Yeah, I suppose we still do that a bit and then you should have some you might hear in a technical TV show and you sort of go from there. Well look the lion's leaps tonight. I'm on my way. I'm on my way. I'm on my way.

17:02We were going to try and challenge you there in the middle of that. So while the music was playing in the background for the radio listeners Paul was trying to get to the high note just as we came out the bridge there and it's pretty high isn't it's pretty high. Yeah, it's a fun song though. It is a fun song and I would I would use that in music therapy quite a bit. It's one of those songs that works as a round. You know there's various things you can sing on top of other things because the chords say the same throughout the the various sections of the song. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. You mentioned you too as well. So were you in on you too from the start? Not really know that song New Year's Day. I can't remember what record that song but I remember the first album.

18:02First you to record I bought was the unforgettable fire. I had a turn table in my room at that point. And yeah, that was I suppose that I went from there then back to to war and boy in October. But yeah, there were huge influence. As your relationship with music change a bit when you become a musician then like given your obviously consuming all this when you're young and it's top of the pops and the talons that you're buying all that type of stuff. When you actually become a musician you start writing start recording yourself does that change your relationship to music? I think it does. I kind of I look at my favorite music as sort of the music I fell in love with as a teenager and sort of and as a listener. And then when I started making music you sort of sometimes I feel like it's a case of you might like a sausage but you really don't want to see how it's made. So there was a point I mean it obviously brings continues to bring its riches and playing music is an incredibly satisfying thing to do as well writing with your friends and all that entails the touring.

19:20But I think I remember going to see radio head as a band in Galway they played an outdoor show in Galway like late 90s I think and we had binoculars to look at the gear that they were using like Johnny Greenwood guitar rig and the synth set up and stuff but you start looking at the PA and lights and production and the things and it's sort of not that it loses its magic but or its spell because I continue to love going to see love music but you become aware of the sort of the machine. I suck already at that because you picked ready as one of your album choices here and I was intrigued when I saw radio headwind the email camp you want to put into the culture club I was like which one is he going to go for because over the course of four of five albums they just go to all sorts of different directions. Yeah you decided to highlight in rainbows here so what do you particularly like about that album and what's kind of the attachment you have to it I think.

20:20You know they were all you know since since the bands I suppose were hugely inspirational to us as a band but I remember distinctly remember listening to rainbows in an old house in Westmeath where we were recording record call. The record called blue lights on the runway in late late late 2000's yeah and and. It just I we there was a recreation room I remember there was a pool table and. And table tennis table and we we were listed after night days recording remember we're down there listening to it and playing and just. Marveling at the sort of the songs but also the sort of studio techniques and and the sounds of things and. The journeys that songs would take and the little. Little very subtle touches of you because I suppose maybe we were in that sort of forensic.

21:23Place where we were making our own thing and and and and getting into very specific. Placement of elements of of the instrumentation of songs and just again listening to how they were doing it and yeah just. The huge huge inspiration okay let's take a bit of body snatchers by radio at the. Check for.

22:40Radiohead in rainbows one of all's favorite albums and wanted to bring up the Sundays as well so like. This probably very tricky one to do like I actually hate musicians coming off the top to go watch for really whatever buying your first buy a cheesy single go that one but pick your favorite albums almost impossible to do I think. Yeah I think there are a lot of close contenders yeah a lot of records I love and I suppose that this one has a sort of a motive quality or a very strong associate of quality again it's that period. Where I was kind of falling for music and I was taking my walkman to bed and listening to or you to and but this record is by a bank called the Sundays it's called reading writing writing and arithmetic.

23:42And I suppose it because it's a bit of a bit more of a niche that I kind of claimed it as mine in with the friend within the friend group at the time. And there's a woman called Harriet Wheeler who sings with this band and she's got the most beautiful. A transport of voice and I suppose because I never saw them live that the record is and I listen to itself does yet it wasn't sort of like diluted by seeing the songs live and so it kind of burns all the brighter for that and it was the only record of theirs and I really kind of loved. And I think the only had to there was it was a short short lived project I think. And again one of those very. Comforting listens now as well when I listen to it now I'm kind of transported to that sort of time of kind of really falling in love with music best games the perfect place to go next so mentions for the break. And I think it was the second lecture picnic.

24:45Sorry if this feels like a fudge it's not a single gig or a single act but there was just a lineup that year and I suppose the time of my life. And creatively is a band a lot of I think three of us were there together and we saw craftwork arcade fire Nick cave the flaming lips and again just such a inspiring intense weekend. We're that we're forming as well. No we weren't. Yeah yeah. You know hadn't hadn't ever seen I'd seen Nick cave a couple of times but I hadn't seen any of the others and I think it was arcade fires first show they played the what's now the electric arena and I remember them because there's like about 12 of them and I remember them they all they're all you know

25:52festival sets can be really stressful because you don't get a sound check you get a very short change over and I remember them they were all on stage kind of you know set up the gear and and line checking it and sort of like. Scream into the front of house guy have you got this you got this and eventually they took everything together and then you just they just went for it and it was just. It was such a sense of anticipation about it as well because that first record was so hot you know they were absolutely massive I think we all five hours in college at the time everyone was into our kid fire at the time. Yeah. The refueener I think that yeah and it was like that was the oddness and probably getting back to iPods back then like everybody had it and everyone was sharing it around campus at the time they were just so so big and I remember when they were going to EP there was just this huge anticipation that they were going to be in Europe and particularly they were going to be in Ireland and I'd say it was a big part of why people wanted to go there we're going to have a bit of craftwork in a minute was this the first time you'd seen craftwork as well as yeah yeah again the four older German like. German lads behind their individual workstations with incredible sort of visual set up it was quite the thing yeah I've never been to see them obviously I've heard their music along the way and it can be a bit strange when you see a band like that poor by.

27:03A death punk or one of the kind of studies or a death punk came to college at one point and it was like the two guys is wore their helmets and it was a little bit unusual because it's not quite as epic as it sounds in your head when you hear them both like oh god I never knew what they actually looked like before this yeah yeah and sometimes you wonder what's actually been played here. But it was something really iconic about seeing the sort of the Germanness of it. Okay let's take a bit of robots by craftwork then.

28:19I'm pretty sure it was the year before he ended up on the TV coverage and it was the happy Mondays and he got pulled up on stage if anyone wants to check it put in the happy Mondays an EP and you'll find it online and the tip is there forever more so who knew how he would end up at 20 odd years later but they were the early doors of EP. Okay so we're going to park the music at this stage and we're going to move along to a bit of everything else so favorite movie you've gone for Whitney Illinois so tell us why. Again strong sort of association with a time and life maybe we as a band lived in a house in Caldera for a few years where we'd set up rehearsal room and made our first recordings and that was one of the movies that we watch a lot. And I think we had sort of maybe delusions of having of living a little bit of that sort of ragged under appreciated artistic lifestyle.

29:24It's such a quoteable film as well I mean it you know man in particular I'd imagine sometimes have these film quotes as as as short hand and I sort of the right to go almost like a soundboard brotherhood yeah. So it's one of those movies that has that and I remember reading about it it's Bruce Robinson is the director it was sort of based on his experiences with it with a crazy friend of his when they were in college and Richard Grant as just plays the role incredibly. Did you guys live together for quite a while around Alex one of the two years right because I like obviously Rocky from Rocky takes over you were living in Dublin at that time yeah we live together at the time Brian from Pilgrims you and I were living together with another friend yeah. I do like that so I like the story behind that song. Rocky took a lover yeah yeah yeah you kind of you see a guy in your romantic size a story a little bit but it's essentially a friend who knew something you remember the story it's two people down on the street essentially.

30:29So we lived in Smithfield opposite the Capuchin day center for good few years and we got to know a lot of the regulars one of whom went by the name Rocky. He was he was very sort of eloquent man and sober very aware of how his life had fallen apart with drink and and all that he had lost. And when he was drinking he was a nightmare though he broke our window once I remember because we were playing music too loud. I remember bringing them to the hospital a few times and he was just a you know it was very he was living very precariously I suppose and one time he was used to sleep on this wooden palette at the back of the house and one time I opened my bedroom curtains and looked out and he was he was lying there with a lady friend. So it's an imagining of a conversation they may or may not have had yeah I do it's what it's one of my favorite Alex one song as well so books again we're going to be slightly connected on this one because I John McGurran is a is a visiting lecture one spot time college and as a little that became my avenue into getting into McGurran so how did you get into his work my friend me whole gave me that they may face the rising sun.

31:41When that came out and I was hooked I just found it I found it in I'd always sort of loved a certain brand of Irishness and of playfulness with words and of you know as John McGurran himself said that you know Ireland up until the 90s at some point was a was a theocracy in all but name. So but he really played with that and there's the tension between. What was going on with the church and and and the sort of like playful derision that a lot of people had for it and you know there's again a character in that book who is gently slagging another character that the McGurran character I suppose the in that the may face the rising sun and he's saying we didn't see it mass and and he says he answers well I don't believe and. And your man goes as your none of us believe we're only gone for the gawk and the drama you know the the his work is sort of peppered with that sort of play playfulness around around religion and the and the theocracy yeah McGurran's big fan of the Brian you were a fan of the brain as well yeah I said I mean I wouldn't be as familiar with him but again that that there's a playfulness with how we use the English language sometimes that comes directly from the Irish language and and it feels like it's sort of so.

33:07By his Moses into our use of English and it really sets us apart from the sort of Anglo American by him off cultural by him off that were we're kind of nestled in but I think it's and it's incredible to see the Irish language sort of come back in it in in in in such a strong way these these past few years and I think people are kind of aware of its importance now more so as a musician as well I would think that what you're consuming and soaking up when you're reading as well eventually I think it's not going to be a lot of things that I'm going to say. I think I think I'm reading as well eventually has quite an impact in your song writing I think like I I've often been accused of you have not accused but I use a lot of Irish Irish isms going shy you know it's not not in a sort of not consciously but they're there and I think I do love a lot of Irish writing Kevin Barry and like trainer Sullivan and you know I think I'm not going to be able to do that. Donald Ryan I feel is such a beautiful McGarr and ask and quality to his writing as well so I'm still I wouldn't be the biggest reader now I used to read more than I do again I don't have a whole lot of time.

34:22Understandable TV takes up some real time as well so for TV show again you've shown exquisite taste here oftentimes people come on the culture club and that's something I want to mock them for when the TV show you've gone you know it's a little bit fancy in Twin Peaks. Yeah I am I'm I'm rewatching a lot of TV series with my 17 year old we started with the sopranos and moved on to better call Saul and we're about to start Twin Peaks and not not it's not like me kind of indoctrating because he would not be into that there's sort of his picks I don't know where he gets them but I'm more than happy to watch them again with him think he's gone to the top of the TV top ratings there and he's picked a four or five off the top shelf yeah but it's an interesting thing you know especially the sopranos you know I have to remind myself they're all pretty bad people. Oh, you know horrific and so you're referring these people yeah normally but so I have to sort of make that point to him not not that it needs to make and really but you know in his partially unformed 17 year old brain don't aspire to be Paulier Tony Serrano at the end of all this you mentioned better call Saul is supposed to break

35:31and bad and we're kind of sensitive for a come on did you prefer better call Saul to break and bad I think I did and certainly on rewatching I think it's like visually he's really come into his own it's beautiful. Yeah I think Vince killing probably learned a lot from that process before he made yeah eventually becomes this equal. But Twin Peaks why Twin Peaks as it's just so strange it's beautifully strange the you know the the aesthetically and townally and the dialogue. I mean I'm kind of dying to know what my son will think of it when we do start so it is very different. I remember the same party of it where Homer sitting up late at night and it's a it's a man dancing with horse yeah it's very to a fix in fairness the very treasure which we always finish up on as well and the music Kathy Davey so sell me why Kathy Davey should be your very treasure the people should maybe go and find out I think Kathy is a wonderful person for a lot of reasons.

36:37She's an amazing writer and performer of music a record tells of silver sleeve is fantastic record after still it still stands up I think. But just having worked with her in various things and seeing her just how intuitive she is with all instruments. But also the fact that she's pretty much you know she hasn't made a record in 10 years and it's because she's thrown herself into looking after animals. Yeah she founded my lovely horse and it's going on to form a to to found my lovely pigs. Also looks after a lot of turkeys there I think she's just got such a big heart and is is it's incredibly moving to see see how she is with animals and I feel like. The animals game is music's last and some ways i would encourage everyone to to to come back and and listen to Kathy Davey's music it is one of the best reasons ever to not make music is to go and spend your time animals and make life better for them.

37:42Paul it's been a pleasure having you in for the culture club thanks many for joining us. The last word on today FM.