CSUN Special: Shelly Brisbin’s Take On The 2026 Event

0:00Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called chat-concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trading value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Hey guys, no mainstream this weekend, but instead we're focusing on CSUN 2026. This is double tap. We're blind people talk tech. Here's Steven Scott and Shawn Breeze. That's right, normally on a Sunday we get together and we talk all about the big tech stories of the week, but this week in particular, Shawn, we cannot avoid in our world the biggest tech story. That is CSUN, the assistive technology conference in its 41st year.

1:06That's excessively been around that long, Steven Scott. Tell us about it. No, but what I'm going to do is welcome in our guest who will tell us about the 41st CSUN. Actually, there's a question for you, Shelley Breeze. It's been first of hello. Hi. How do you see Steven? No, no, no, no, no. She wasn't there in the first one. She can't. I wasn't going. I was not going to start that rumor. No, no, no, no, but how many CSUNs have you done? You know, I'm not sure. It's somewhere between five and seven, something like that. I think I went to my first one in 2013. Now that I think about it, it's like, wait, how is it not more than that? I'm going to guess it's been like seven. Oh, you're a dapp Han then. Sure. This is nothing new. I know all the things. Oh, yes. Well, there's stories we can tell. I'm sure the stories we absolutely cannot tell. I believe it's all around breakfast. Is that right? Yes. There are many, many breakfast stories. Usually it's late night cocktail parties, but this year it's all about breakfast.

2:09Yeah, we're all getting older. Or staying out later. That's right. God, Sean, have you done that? Have you ever done that in the last 10 years? No, I'm not really awake now. What are you talking about? We're recording this late on Saturday night. And yeah, let's just be honest about it. Guys, we're all a little bit tired here. Shelley, you must be exhausted. I mean, CSUN is a bit of a beast, doesn't it? Well, it is. I think the biggest issue for me was that my plane arrived 12.30 AM local time. And I was fine until I got off of the plane and came through the jetway and like was standing on my home city soil. And then I was like, okay, I'm tired. I need to fall down now. That's what I know is tired. And I immediately went to local burger chain and got myself a chicken sandwich. And then I went to sleep. And I'm glad I did. I'm here. As well rested as one could be after four days at CSUN. Happy to be here then. Indeed. So happy. There were no technical difficulties before we started.

3:13We're totally happy. Yeah, sorry, just got the judges rolling it up. Hey, my first sound effect. Oh, yeah, there you go. Your first defect. I'm I'm listening, our technical difficulties may extend into this broadcast, but we'll fingers crossed. Do not put that to the universe, Stephen. I know. I know. Don't say it. Don't say I like. Okay, look, let's talk about CSUN this year then. So when you were going into this, did you have any ideas about what you were kind of thinking of going to see? Did you have any ideas or were you just really wanting to experience again? Well, I haven't been in about five years. And I realized that the last time, as many as I've been to the last time I went was in the literally the week that COVID-19 was declared a pandemic. So my last CSUN memory is of finding a mask, you know, a California somewhere. So I just wanted to see CSUN again to start with. And then I was going to the sessions this year. Usually I'm sort of a Gabfly, Gabfly and I go to parties and trade show stuff and exhibit floor and all that. I did all those things, but this year I also added sessions. So to take a long

4:15way around to answer your question, I really wanted to find out what people were talking about in the sessions. And that had to do as will be surprising to no one. It's all about the AI, even in the accessibility world. As far as stuff on the floor, I did want to see sort of what the advancements have been. There's so much going on around Braille lately and that seems to be even back five years ago. That was true, but it's it's even more so now. And so I was really eager to sort of hone in on that and then we did some. How did you find the sessions? Because most people do focus on the floor, right? It's all about getting hands on with the tech that's on the booths of what's on show. I don't know if most people do. I think and actually I don't know the number of people who go to sessions versus the exhibit hall. I know they have a lot of sessions, which is always surprising to me that they can support as many as they do. And they frankly have the reputation of being boring because there are some sessions that exist so that people can get CLU credit, which sort of to continuing education in their fields.

5:18And so those are kind of, you know, they're not the ones I would. I didn't go to any PDF document remediation sessions. But they're I know I just didn't have time. It was either that or go to the orbit booth. But the sessions I did go, I'm trying to put segways everywhere I can't, but the sessions I did go to because I picked them were interesting because they were talking about either applying AI or how we deal with AI when we're forced to or in some cases some product stuff. So I think you can I think it's CSUN. If you have particular interests and you want to go to the sessions, you can pick things to do. The other thing to know, which most CSUN folks who haven't gone to the sessions know is that a lot of the bigger vendors have sessions of their own that you can go to for free. And some of them are sales pitchy and some of them are actually content pitch. And if you spend some time looking to see what Amazon or Google or DQ or any of the people who are having free sessions offer, you're probably going to find something

6:20that's interesting and gives you a chance to sit down for an hour instead of standing around the exhibit hall all the time. So that's that's my secret hack. If you want to sit down, go to a session. You might have to learn all about Amazon, but that's how you do it. What do you not know about Amazon share laborers, but that's the question I want to know. I mean, there's no test at the end to find out, but the beginning to find out whether you knew it or not. I didn't personally go to an Amazon session this year, but that's just just a hack for those of you who might need one. Well, it needs to sit down. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Sean would be first in that queue. But let's talk about who you got a chance to talk to because there are a number of companies that you've spoken to and you've done a lot of interviews very kindly for us here at DoubleTap. Did anyone remember us from last year? You know, a lot of people did. I don't know that they remember you specifically from last year, but they remember the podcast in general. You got a lot of listeners out there and I did get and when you're when you're standing there with a microphone and you're about to interview somebody, the first thing you do is introduce yourself.

7:22My name is Shelley blah blah blah. And then you tell them where you're from and then they they get big smiles on their faces and they go, oh, DoubleTap. I mean, I really did get that reaction several times. So it was nice to see that you guys are as least at least as famous as you think you are. They could have of course just been smiling because Steven and I weren't there. And it was you. No, I didn't think of that. I did not think of that. God, those idiots from Britain aren't here this year. Yeah, they'll we've got enough trouble in this country. We do not need these idiots as well causing trouble. But yeah, you got a chance to talk to a lot of companies. We're going to hear today from a table. We're going to hear from Case for Vision. I know that they may be of huge interest to you, Shelley. So I've been interested in your take on what was said there about a new product they were launching. You mentioned orbit earlier. We're going to be hearing from Ventechess, Chari and an extended interview. We're going to play in here because I think this is an interview. A lot of people are going to want to hear because it does get into a lot of

8:23detail and depth and and Shelley well done to you and a huge round of applause for getting this pricing on these new devices because we've no idea. We had no idea what this pricing would be, so we are going to get the pricing or at least estimated pricing, which sounds like the pricing when we talk about it. But anyway, we'll get to that. But first up, let's hear from Ira because you got a chance to catch up with Everett Bacon from Ira to talk about what's new and what's coming. I will say it's Shelley. The newest things with Ira is our of course our AI powered by Astra, which is a Google DeepMinds AI that is basically a live AI visual interpreter. And that AI visual interpreter you can use to do many of the tasks that you were expecting a human visual interpreter to do. And we do have a human that watches it in the background to make sure it doesn't

9:23make mistakes or it doesn't give you any unsafe information. But for the most part, the AI is doing the work of the human visual interpreter. And it's pretty awesome. I hope everybody gets to try it out. We really want more people to be using it and and testing it Google DeepMind then uses that data. So it's free. You don't have to pay for it. Google DeepMind uses that data to improve the Astra AI all the time. And then the other new thing that we're really excited about by the end of this month, we will have a full integration with the meta glasses. So no more having to use the WhatsApp and the the parcel integration that we created for people. Now meta has opened up their SDK and we will be on that SDK by the end of the month. You'll be able to just call an IRA agent from your app and immediately the feed will come through the glasses and you'll be

10:24able to the the IRA agent will be able to see through the glasses and also talk your audio will be coming through the glasses. So it's pretty we're pretty impressed. We're pretty excited about it. We know that this is something that the community has wanted for a long time and so this will be available to you by the end of March meta is telling us. So we hope that everyone who has meta glasses, they will go out and use it. If you're a eco vision a giga user and you have those glasses, IRA is already fully integrated into that. You can use IRA on your eco vision glasses. So we're pretty excited about that as well. We are going to continue to be on any new glasses that come out. So if Google they're talking about new XR glasses, we expect to be on that when they release those. If Apple has glasses that they release in the near future, we expect to be on those. So the hands free movement that the community has been wanting for years, we're going to have that and

11:29it's available. And so we're excited about that and hope that you're excited too. So that was Shelley there talking to Everett Bacon from IRA. Big news there. I think you know the first news we kind of knew a little bit about. I mean, it seems to be coming to more people, which is quite interesting, but the big news I guess is the meta glasses integration, Sean, which a lot of us are excited about. A lot of us have been waiting a long time for. Yes, of course, this is amazing news. Look, I know the work around of using the WhatsApp link was there and it was the only option that Ira had at the time. But let's be honest, it was a bit of a faff. So having this integration is amazing news and having a expected date at the end of this month as well. Fantastic. I can't wait for this. Ira is amazing. If you do get lost, though, those agents and the software that they have on their side, I'm hoping there's going to be GPS tracking on there because the mapping and able to give you directions is something that Ira does amazingly well. Now, Shelley, I can imagine your journalistic nose was twitching because, you know,

12:35first off, he says there that it's going to be end of March meta tells us. So is that end of March? That's the question, isn't it? Well, I didn't hear from them. So I don't know, but it does mean that the ball is in another court than Ira's, I guess. So they have to, you know, turn on a button somewhere in meta, I guess. Yeah, but this is good news. I mean, do you use this service? Do you have a user? I do. Actually, they had it available for free at CSUN again, which is a nice thing for a nice way. It's a best demo Ira could possibly get. And so I didn't use it a couple of times. And I did think to myself after I talked to Everett, wouldn't it have been amazing if I had just had my Rayban's on and I didn't have to carry hold my phone up like an idiot and go, okay, I'm pointing a little to the left. And another thing for people to know about CSUN, and again, as somebody who's low vision, this stuff matters a little bit to me, but the signage in the Marriott is in awkward places to see if you're trying to find it as a low vision person. But if I have those

13:38glasses on, I can just tilt my head way up to the top of the doors for those signs are and let the AI take care of it instead of the poor agent who's like, I'm not really sure where that sign is. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, it's a big deal. You know, it's one experience I had in Vienna earlier in the year when I was at the zero project. Actually, the airport in Vienna, trying to find assistance. And, you know, I decided, okay, this is the moment I'm going to try this and I went through the whole WhatsApp process to get connected. Okay, it was a fact. You're absolutely right, Sean. It is. But it is really good. The fact that you can do it. I just would be so much nicer than having to not go through the hassle of having to connect with an agent, then get a code sent to me and then connect to that. But remember to disconnect the other call because that then starts to count against you minutes. Wow, it's very confusing. It really is. But this integration will make a big difference. I'd love to see this happen. I mean, I think we're all really looking forward to that. On the other side of this, what they're doing with Google DeepMind, I mean,

14:40this is clearly moving along. And it does seem to me, Shelley, that they're kind of moving towards this, I don't want to say replacing humans because it is very much involving humans right now. But they are going to start to lean more on AI, I would say, which again is the thread of CSUN this year. I think that that's something that Ira has been letting us know that they were going to do for a while now and the other services too. I mean, AI has become more and more a part of those services. Also, the data from Ira users and the data from other AI users for accessibility, informers, these models, you know, informs DeepMind. And I did ask Everett about privacy issues. And he pointed out that your data is deleted after, it's not, it stays on your, your personal data stays on your device and that the data, the identification of you as a source of the data is deleted after your call. So the information can go to Google DeepMind. You can also say that you don't want to go to DeepMind if you want, if you would like to do it that way. So there is

15:44some understanding from the Ira folks about privacy concerns that people might have. But if people want to help train these models and want to make a, you know, a two-way conversation between themselves and the DeepMind models, it's, you know, available to them. I'm interested in what the application is going to be with Astra. Is this going to be the live AI feature for when we're walking around or is this still the BMI AI take a picture, have it described to you? Yeah, I don't know. I didn't really get into that with him. We had a lot to talk about. But that, that is a really good question. And I wouldn't be surprised if the goal was to make it more live, but that, you know, we'll sort of see what, if there's a beta process or a process where it's sort of integrated on a smaller scale and then gets bigger over time. Because I think everybody's goal is to, everybody being, everybody who's providing these services, his goal is to rely on AI as much as possible, both for reasons of, you know, working costs and for

16:51reasons of assisting the growth of the AI database, if you will. I mean, my, my understanding of this is that it is essentially doing the role of the agent. So you connect to an AI call live AI, if you like, so you're connecting to that live call. And then it's the AI that is talking to you. Now, at the moment, they have an agent, a bit like a driverless car, you know, this is like certain places still have the safety driver. Like, like, the description of a human sort of in the background. And I would also think I just a speculation entirely on my part. But I wonder if it's dependent on the task. Like, if you connect and you say, I have a navigation task, that seems like that would be more human focus than I need to find my project on the floor. I need to read my recipe labels or something like that. And I would hope that that sort of triage happens. Yeah, that's the bit that intrigues me. And actually, that's what makes it quite clever,

17:52actually, because if you're able to do that, if you were able to, you know, it kind of works out, okay, what's the best tool for the job here? Do we need a human involved? That would be, that'd be pretty cool. Yeah, well, end of March, we look forward to the meta-ray bands. Let's see what happens with that. We'll of course connect with Ira, you know, the time and see what's actually going on. But I just, I can't wait for that update. I think in the interview as well, you mentioned, or the ever mentioned that this would be via software updates. So we would see this update come through. And both versions of the meta-glasses too, I believe it. Like, I have the first version, and I know some people do too, and that would be a question they would ask, is do I have to have the newer ones? So apparently not. Okay, let's talk about case for vision, because, you know, one of the reasons I love talking to you, Shelley, is because you bring that low-vision perspective here. And this is one product that, you've tried out case for vision already, haven't you? I have one, actually. I bought it, and I bought it so far in the, I bought it so close to the beginning of what the company was doing,

18:52that Igor, the creator of this product, knew my name when I came up to the booth, not because of double tap, but because he says, I know you from somewhere, Dona, and I says, well, I bought one of your products like a year and a half ago. So yeah, I have one. And what we talk about here are some improvements to the original versions. So that's exciting for me. It's not just that it's a cool product, but that they've actually updated both the updated the original version of the product, and they also have some new stuff. Yeah, let's hear about Ergo. The product I'm really excited about is Case for Vision Ergo. This is a miniature version of our flagship product, the Case for Vision, but it doesn't have the legs that fold out, as before. It is probably about two and a half inches long, two inches wide, but with the same mag-safe technology, it snaps to your iPhone, and it's just on the back of it. There's a kickstand that pops out. To position your phone at a slight angle so you can aim it at printed material

20:00underneath it. So as opposed to holding it like having the material directly under the phone, you slide your phone over things, but it has the same magnification and panning ability. It has the same high contrast options, and the flashlight is present. You can also freeze and take pictures of the image, like you can with our flagship products, but this is nice because it's so small, it can stay on your iPhone all the time. I never take mine off. Now, does this work for distance viewing as well, because the original has a little mirror that you pop out if you want to use your phone for distance? Absolutely. Absolutely. It has the same mirror that flips out. All you need to do is sort of flick a switch here and push it out, and the mirror pops out at a 45 degree angle, and then you activate our telescope mode on the app, and just like the

21:00our flagship products, you can see distance. And this is nice because again, it's portable. So I could be sitting in a restaurant with a menu above the counter, and I could look at that. I could be looking at the squirrel outside of my kitchen window, running along my fence. I could watch TV. I can see a whiteboard across the screen and follow my teacher. Of course, this is independent of what phone you have, which is unlike the original product, which depends on... Correct. The original product was limited to iPhone 15 Pro. Case for Vision Ergo will work with almost all modern iPhone models from it. It is available right now on our website. So it retails for $99. So that was Simon Minor there from Case for Vision talking about the new Ergo. One of a number of products that you were learning about there in that interview. And as you say, updates to the existing model. But this one seems to be better in the sense that

22:04it's designed for any phone that the problem with Case for Vision I remember from the beginning was that it was kind of built for a specific phone. You could only have a certain phone or you could have a choice of phones you could basically use this with. It's any phone with MagSafe. He didn't quite make that clear, which is of course relevant with our discussion of the 17 E versus the 16 E iPhone because I've been running around going, oh, MagSafe is great, but not if you haven't used it before. It doesn't really matter that much. But if you're trying to decide about a new phone, 16 E might not be your choice if you want to snap a Case for Vision Ergo on the back of there. It really is very tiny. It is, you know, much more low profile than having to have this essentially a case with a stand on the phone, which is what the original version was. So it's very cool. I think it's a good price. I actually have one. I got to get to play with it and tell people what I think in a little while. So this is, sorry, just to go back to the basics. This is just a video magnifier accessory. This turns you into a phone. Yes, they have an app and I know Magnifier exists on the phone,

23:08but they have an app and the app comes up when you put this on the back of your phone. And the benefit of the app is that for one thing, it's a lot simpler than Magnifier and it's also focused on what we need, which is magnifying for reading and it has the color filters and the high contrast options. And the telescope thing is just by punching a button, you can get right into what you want for distance viewing. And so it simplifies the functions of, say, a magnifier app. But the secret sauce, I guess, rather than the software is the hardware because the software is really, really basic. Yeah. And how much boat does it add to the phone itself? The Ergo not much. I mean, it's like, it's kind of like a big memory stick. If you had a big thumb drive on the back of your phone. So it's, you know, if you're somebody who wants a lean sleek phone and puts it in your pocket, maybe you'd keep it on your phone, maybe not. I'm not sure whether I would or not, but it would easily fit in your pocket or purse if you didn't

24:08want to. And then you can, you heard the click in the audio there, but because of MagSafe, if you do pull it out and put it on your phone when you want to use it, it's just a really quick click. I know I'm in the right place. I'm going to open up my app and I'm going to start to use it. That sounds amazing. I've got to say, when I did have some vision, I used to often pull out my phone because I could see more on the screen, not even using MagSafe, just the screen and the camera. Oh, yeah. I could see more in dim lighting. So yeah, sounds fantastic. It's great. I also enjoy, it's a good price too. I think Case Revision in general is producing stuff that is interesting because it's affordable. There are all sorts of magnifier solutions out there that include connecting to your phone or to your iPad in Case Revision. I'll do that for you, but they are going for a part of the market that wants something a little more simple and straightforward than say a high-end electronic magnifier that has a lot of software, may do OCR and speech, and then a lot of people are going to want those things. But if your need is for a simple magnifier

25:12that's focused on low vision, I think this is an interesting option. Yeah, I agree. I see the S and Bach have come up with a similar product, but it's incredibly more expensive, isn't it? It's like, I think there's around five or six hundred dollars. Yeah, I did actually see that and that looks like, it's an iPad. I don't know if they have a phone version of that. What I saw was, Oh, right. What I saw was an iPad. I don't hold me to that because the one they had on display was an iPad version, and that sort of splits the difference because there are some considerably more expensive ones that use Android tablets, even. I know humanware has one and Patriot Vision has one, and these are, they've got fairly sophisticated software, and again, that's sort of focused on, you know, it's think about it the way somebody would think about a CCTV. They've got those kinds of controls and those kind of additional features, and the S and Bach is kind of in the middle where it has a little bit of that, and then this is kind of the low end, but I don't mean that in a negative way. I just mean it's more affordable, and it's also physically

26:14compact, which I appreciate. Didn't they also have an iPad version as well? At case originally, the old case version. That's fairly new. It's for the any 11-inch iPad. I asked them about 13-inch iPads because that's what I have, and they said that's coming. It has to be, it also has, initially, they said that it requires a USB-C port, and that's only if you want to do pass-through power with it. You can use it on an older iPad, but I think it's really intended for 11-inch iPads that have USB-C, because then you can plug that, you can do pass-through power, and you can keep it plugged in while you use it. I don't risk the cost to that. Just staying on the low-vision magnification side of things. Did you get a chance to have a look at any other low-vision tech CSUNs? I really didn't. I just had a luck going on, and so I was looking at fun things like Brails and Braille and Canes that I don't usually look at, and I didn't spend a ton of time other than I saw the Asian Bach, like I said, but I didn't. Some of the bigger vendors, I just have a chance

27:18to get by there this year. Did he not ask that? I'm trying to think last year when I was there. Did we see any companies? I mean, I'm sure we did. I know there are a couple of companies there that were selling magnification devices, but it was generally more focused on Braille and there was a lot of Brails. Most of the big companies have that stuff, and especially if you're looking at Braille, you know, human wear, or the company that used to be him, whose name I always forget. It depends on what dealer we can use as a problem. Vespero. Vespero, LVI. Those folks all have low-vision solutions. I think they are, they change out less. They're not so many new models. I mean, once you make an electronic magnifier, if it's not based on a new phone or a new tablet or something like that, there's not a lot of reason to change it. And so I think that's probably another reason that I didn't spend a lot of time going to all those vendors, because I used to do that dutifully every year when I was doing podcasts for blind bargains. It was like, okay, Shelley,

28:19cover all the low-vision. Go. And so I would go and I would say, hey, what's new? And they'd say, well, this is a 24-inch monitor we have. Like, oh, okay. And here's the same camera. And that's not their fault. It's just it is what it is. No, it's not a change. And to be fair, I think the things that you see changing the most are either using a tablet or a phone as a component or on the sort of small to medium-sized electronic magnifier. Because I think those are the things that people want to carry with them or that they want to take to class. And they're probably there are a lot probably a lot of people that you don't want a 24-inch CCTV. But there's not a lot of innovation necessarily going on in that world. No, no. You're listening to Double Tap. We are recapping CSUN, Shelley Brisbane with us. The Assistive Technology Conference takes place every single year this year, of course, in Anaheim in California. And we are talking all about some of

29:23the various products that you got a chance to get hands on with and get a chance to talk to people about. Let's move on to orbit research because the big story this week I think is one of the biggest stories actually from CSUN. Well, maybe this and Vespero saying that they're changing their mind on AI page explorer for people who have home annual licenses. I think that may be a big story as well to be fair. But one story that certainly from a product point of you caught my attention was the announcement of new products from orbit research. You got a chance to talk to Venter Keshe Chari from orbit research their CEO to tell us all about what is new and more importantly when it'll be available and what that price might be. Well, we're here in the very quiet orbit booth at CSUN 2026. It's quiet because the show isn't open yet. So we're having a little bit of a sneak peek at new products from orbit and they're all laid out for us here. Let's start with the strata. Tell us about these products. Sure. So we for many years have been

30:28developing our own braille cell technology which we call the tactuator and our own braille cells based on that which we call the true braille cells. And these have been been very popular, very well received. They produce signage quality braille. People over the years have asked us for for options and other things that they have asked us for us to have versions of our products but with other types of cell technology such as piezo for various reasons. Some folks have preferences for piezo cells. So we decided to create a new family of products which we call strata which is based on piezo cells. So we have three members that we are announcing the CSUN in the strata family. They'll be more to come in the future. So I'll tell you a little bit about what these are. There is the strata 40 which is a 40 cell simple note taking device. It's got a file reader,

31:36an editor. So you can edit text and BRF files. It's got an onboard braille translator. It's got some simple apps like a calendar, a clock, a calculator. And it's got thumb keys. So the intent is to have a simple standalone note taking device but also allowing it to connect of course through screen readers. Then we have been developing a platform that's based on Android which brings more advanced capabilities. So this is the same platform that we've been using on the orbit player and the orbit speak. And this allows us to have apps such as internet radio, library access to popular libraries such as bookshare and things like podcast receiver, advanced file formats like PDF and DocX and Daisy can be read by the apps on this platform.

32:42It also has a voice recorder. So all of these capabilities are now available on the strata 40 pro and the strata 20 pro devices. So the pro actually stands for the more advanced platform, the Android platform. We don't expose Android to the user. So we have our own apps that are built on top of Android but because the operating system is more powerful and the processor is a lot more powerful, it allows us to offer these more advanced apps. What version of Android? So this is using Android 14 and we don't really worry too much about it because it's not something that the user will have to to update. We also don't currently plan to have it be capable of downloading apps from the Play Store etc. So we'll be providing apps. At some point we will have the ability to load additional apps and perhaps open it up to

33:43third parties also to develop apps. Just to describe the devices there, it's a note-taker size device probably what six inches long something like that. So the strata 40 and strata 40 pro look identical. So they're about 12 inches wide and about three inches from front to back and about an inch in height a little less than an inch in height. The strata 20 pro is the same dimension front to back and in height but it's shorter because it has 20 cells. And what is availability and pricing for these? So availability for the strata 40 will be in the middle of the year so we're hoping to hit the summer conventions and then for the strata 40 pro and the strata 20 pro by the end of the year. Okay. Then we also introduce the... Let me ask you

34:44about pricing. Yeah, so pricing has not yet been set. So I can't give you a form of price. I can give you an approximate range. So the strata 40 will be somewhere around between the $2,000 and $2,500. The strata 40 pro between $2,500 and $3,000. That's the target. And the strata 20 pro will be around $2,000. All right. Well, let's talk about the optimal laptop. Sure. So we have been working on the optimal laptop for a few years now and for various reasons, the development has taken us longer than we expected. However, we have been working on the development and we have just finished a design which uses PSO electric cells instead of the previous design which was using our own true braille cells. We will, of course, offer both types of cells. So the

35:50Optima PSO version, we are showing it here. It's a fully functional prototype and the people have been pretty excited about it. And what should we know about the specs of the laptop itself? It's Windows-based? Yeah, it's the Optima has a Windows motherboard. So it runs full Windows, Windows 11. It's a motherboard that we obtain from a company called Framework and they make modular laptops. So we utilize those boards internally. And this allows us to keep pace with the mainstream. So when we launch it, it will be available with the latest in terms of processor technologies in terms of the latest operating system. And the most important thing is that it will be continuously upgradable since it's running Windows as Microsoft updates Windows. You'll get the updates automatically and you can install them just like you would on a normal laptop. And what should we know about the features on the braille side?

36:51So the braille features are fairly straightforward. So it's a 40 cell display. That's going to be our first model. We might offer it in other sizes also. We'll offer both the PSO as well as the true braille cell technology. And the braille experience is completely integrated. We have thumb keys. We have configurable panning keys as well. And it's going to be a pretty seamless experience. You'll also be able to use the braille display with other devices. You'll be able to connect it to your phone, for instance, and use it as a braille display. And because you have fully functioning prototype, I'm guessing it's going to be a while before this is released. And can you talk about that? And also if you know anything about pricing. Sure. Yeah. So the current plan is that we will have it available in time for CSUN next year. And the price range

37:51will depend on the configuration. So we're going to be offering these choices of braille cells, the configurability of the processor and the memory and storage, et cetera. So the price range will be between $3,000 and $5,000. Well, let's talk about the flow, which is a very striking looking product. And I'd love to know what I'd love to know more about it. And probably describe it for folks. Because the display, the display as we were talking about before, has a plastic case and there, the note taker form factor that people are familiar with. Flow looks a little bit different. That's right. Yeah. The flow is a different product. So the flow family is intended to be a simple display only product family. So the idea is no input method, no onboard apps or capabilities is simply and purely a display. It does not even include a battery. You plug it into a USB cable connected to your computer or your phone and it just works.

38:58So our software onboard has the ability to communicate with all the popular screen readers, just like our other devices do. So it works across all the platforms. It's a very minimalistic form factor. It's an aluminum case. So it's very sleek and very rugged. It has a row of 40 cells it's about a half an inch thick about two and a half inches from front to back and about 12 inches long. It has thumb keys in the front and six configurable pan keys three to the left and three to the right of the display. And no wireless at all it's meant to be plugged into a computer to a phone. That's right. No wireless at all. The idea is that you know you would normally use it when you are working on a computer and you're just plugging into USB that helps to keep it small and simple because it also does not include a battery. And are those piezoelectric cells or yes those are also piezoelectric cells. So the four products that we announced at this

40:03C-SAN all have piezoelectric cells. And what's pricing and availability on the flow? So the flow will be available also in the June, July timeframe. Pricing is also not yet set but it will be somewhere in the $2,000, $2,500 range. And you said there's a family coming along. So this is the first product which is 40 cells yes and but more are coming. That's right. Yeah so we will have other sizes available perhaps later this year or next year. So that was Ventechess Chari CEO of Orbit Research Talking Tours and Sean I'm going to come to you first for a reaction here because please don't. I'm just intrigued when your thoughts on the pricing because Shelley first off well done to you. Congratulations. Yes. I'm getting the pricing yeah that's me it's funny because I did listen to your Friday show on the plane home and I know you had the Orbit news. It's like I hope I have something that they don't have otherwise but

41:08whatever you know so I've done I've done some good I hope. All you have. I'm absolutely have. And you were you were brutal I'll be honest with you. No no no tell me the price. Well if you did listen to the show a couple of days ago I think I was a little bit out I was saying oh yeah I wish this was $200 for the flow because the flow sounds really interesting to me it sounds like a lovely piece of kit and you sounded quite impressed by the design of it there Shelley. Well I'll tell you and I told this to Ventech as well I said it reminds me of the balm products because they were all shiny and I called I used to call those the apple of braille displays and I get it it's probably because it's such a contrast between that and the plastic cases from note takers and nothing against them I think I don't have any issues with those cases at all it's just that it's very noticeably different looking product and I didn't ask what the reason for that design was but it is it's very striking. What kind of makes sense for its use case right it's very simple when I put that in air quotes but a very simple

42:11use case of just plug it in and it does what it's meant to do but I've got to say that price has really surprised me and maybe it's just because I'm out of touch and I just don't know but I mean that's so similar to the price of the strata or tea cell. I don't quite understand how that's the same price. It seemed high to me but maybe Stephen has better thoughts because I know you're a big fan of this idea. I'm not 100% sure I understand what's in there that makes it so pricey. This is kind of where I'm landing on this one because my thinking is I mean I love the concept of this I love the idea of just having that 40 cell braille display on its own in front of my keyboard and I can use any keyboard I want I can you know because you know me guys I changed my keyboards are we 10 seconds so you know I want to be able to do that and I can't change out the keyboard on the mantis I'd kind of like to so you know it would be like you know I could have that braille display a 40 cell display and I

43:14honestly was thinking this is going to be its orbit its orbit research it's going to be around 500 dollars because ultimately what are we talking about here we're talking about 40 cells we're talking about USB connection no Bluetooth no battery so a lot of the components inside is less in there but I guess ultimately what we're seeing I guess if this is the price is it's the cost of those braille cells it's just these braille cells again and again well that's what I was thinking I was wondering and I did again I didn't ask this question but I was wondering if there's any reason why they are not making it with lower cost cells or if that's something that would come in the future depending on how well this succeeds it does seem that they're moving away from that that thing that actually all but became known for that signage quality braille I know they I know they had a lot of issues at the beginning there was a lot of issues there was a lot of products sent back that was a lot of time ago now I know we keep saying that but that was a long time ago right it was a long time ago as far as I know that a lot of those issues have been sorted out in their later true braille braille cells I just think you know when I think of orbit I think

44:17the dream of an affordable braille display the 500 to 700 dollar which was the reader 20 and I just think are the reader series still going to be available I assume so well they will be they will be available apparently there's a now Shelley you'll maybe know more about this than I do this movie didn't come up in the interview but I believe there's a scheme that is available in India that is going to be a similar benefit scheme that's going to be available in the US for people who can get access to lower cost devices so the orbit reader range will actually be featured in that lineup and I think it says you'll be able to get the orbit reader 20 for four nine nine dollars okay kind of things so that's yeah there's it's a it's a grant program though so it's so I guess from orbit's perspective they're going to sell it for what they sell it for but this grant program is going to make up the gap between the lower price and what orbit gets out of it which I would is why orbit would be promoting that program and I don't know a lot about it

45:19except that it is in the US and it is not like a short term thing it's apparently going to be an ongoing availability so that's probably worth looking into for people who are interested in orbit technology so that's going to be the that's that's the mighty boot nio approach there you go yeah I knew everyone was going to say you know it's we've managed to throw an entire episode was Stephen doesn't talk about this damn might boot nio but sorry yeah but as long as there I mean you did send me a message while I'm at CSI looking at all this nice assistive technology I got a nio it was a voice message saying exactly that in that too as well I got one too um it's I'm just relieved that they're not just discontinuing yeah look this is all I don't know anything about this I just I'm just relieved to know that the reader option is still be there for people that just can't stretch to those higher prices yeah now that's good that is that is good news and that's where orbit you know started out that was this it's the whole thing I have to say though you know looking at the strata 40 pro and hearing what it has in it and even when they say

46:23well the price is going to be between two two and three thousand dollars I'm kind of thinking that's not bad that shows you where we're at when it comes to pricing for real devices when you say yeah between two and three thousand that's not too bad well right I mean especially if you are comparing them if you can go that to the flow you're like well wait for so for two and a half thousand dollars I can get a full full on 40 cell Braille display or I can get this cool looking keyboard thing I mean I think that's a pretty straightforward choice it is I mean you get in the computer with you know a free Braille display yeah right but you know that compared to um Braille sense for example or what human wear brought out in the Braille in line which are more expensive than that although I'm saying that I think the Braille in series is the three thousand three maybe a little bit more than that because those product lines it's very much they're selling you a lot of apps and they they want it to be like your one stop shop more so than a display that works in conjunction with

47:23what you already have I mean not that you can't use it with other tools but every time I see a new announcement of those products it's like oh we added this app and that happened and all these under integrations which seems to be sort of you know and I'm not saying this negatively but it just is the fact it seems to be propping up those price points well if you want a device that does all these things on its own then you're going to pay a little bit more for that yeah I just thought a lot more in some cases I just thought it was going to spend a lot less on that flow because of what it was you know I think I would be spending as much but okay but are you excited still Stephen Scott about the optimal yes I am because I think that is going to undercut the Braille not evolved from human wear yes and you know I think the problem here is that we have heard year on year on year oh it's coming soon and oh look behind the curtain it's near us almost here yes I never talk about another year away and it just feels like it's always a year away with or but so we shall see let's let's see it in person exciting technology is just are we going

48:26to see it that's the trouble and is it too late when when it does our human wear gets it's teeth into the market with the evolve right it's not going to be because we know the quality of that product we know that human wear go for high standards high quality so yes you know that's going to be an interesting one especially with the different ranges that it's going to have you know it's going to have the the Perkins input on the 32 and the 20 I believe or is it the no it's 32 32 and the 40 I think in the Perkins input and then they'll have a 40 40 version yes with the Windows PC inside from human wear but this will be a single do I I will see the one thing about the the optimal which really does stand out for me and I think this is the one thing that kind of makes me lean towards it aside the price is that framework at laptop approach where you can change things we can upgrade the hardware that's something you're not going to be able to do is easily I do the thing with the evolve I think that's always something that's scary to me about assistive technology because I live in this world where I I'm like oh well I want to upgrade the memory or

49:27upgrade my not so much process there's any more than with laptops I guess it's less doable but the idea that you spend upwards of $3,000 or even considerably more to get a piece of assistive technology and then you're like well can I how much upgrading can I do? One final interview here that we're going to play from from the interview that you did with Freak Van Wilson is from Hable talking about some products that they had on show and some interesting stuff I can't wait to get your take on Shelley on the other side of this. We have a couple of new products that we actually showing at season we're really excited about it one of them is speech label let me start there first speech label is a labeling system that uses an app to label anything in your life in your house around you so it's an app that you can download the app is completely free it's for iOS and Android and it comes with we sell packs with labels there are different types of labels that you can use to label

50:28for example we have NFC stickers and that you can stick to for example herbs or tupperware or something like this and you can scan it you can record your own voice label so you can record with your voice and say like this is my sort of spices or this is my my medicine books but you can also give more information like when do I need to take my medicine or how do I need to prepare certain recipes or something like this and then the next time you scan it it will repeat that back to you that's the that was speech label a next speech label we have a new product we're showcasing for the first time here it's not available yet but it will be available soon which are tactile they are tactile stickers and they have a really nice feel to them maybe I can give them to you maybe you can feel them for me absolutely they do they there's a star and there's I'm cheating I'm looking there's a triangle like our arrow plus sign minus sign so just like

51:30common shapes that yes and there's square and sort of different and they have different like something the some of the triangles feel rough like sandpaper and some of them are a smoother or have ridges so they have different they have different feeling texture well exactly that this is a sticker sheet we call basic shapes this is also one of the popular sticker sheets these are being used for mostly household appliances so labeling your oven or your microwave for your dishwasher or anything like that they work through touch screens so that's very important so there were a lot of these these touch interfaces with capacitive touch buttons and if you stick these on them you can still use the buttons through the sticker so that's a that's a very good benefit they stick really well so they stick on there for years and they are washable so you can you can wash them there even dishwasher proof so that's that's a really good benefit to them okay interesting um Shelley what was your take on all of this so first of all I need to

52:34point out that was not fake that was his partner Luke he's sounding exactly the same no now Freycat an important meeting so he he you know said oh you can take Shelley it's not that big a deal anyway no I think those those things are interesting one question I asked them was whether those labels were a transparent because I have a sighted person in my house who if I put a label over a capacitive touch button on my washing machine he might not be able to figure out what it was if it was too big a label and they're not transparent but they but you could you know with you could have a sort of a strategy that you put them immediately over immediately under the button so that it's like you you can find it but the sighted the the handicap person in your house we have to use their eyeballs has a way of using it no I thought they were they're cool little thing I mean they're just they're such a small thing but so just useful I thought they were I thought they were cool they sang great yeah so absolutely the touch screen compatibility is genius by the way did they are they also NFC though or is it purely

53:40tactile yeah some of them are they I'm not sure the first batch the speech label are NFC buttons I don't think these are right because they're they're little tiny things and I they're not intended to be smart I don't think I think they're just like little little shapes yeah because first yeah because the first I was thinking hang on is this is this an extension of the speech labels but it's not no I mean I can see it that would be a very cool thing but they might have to be a little thicker or a little I don't know what would be have to be required for for that but no I mean there's still ways you could use the speech labels in conjunction with these I would think you would like put them on a different location where you needed more information and NFC yeah but to your point Sean I mean you know that's amazing how many times I mean I'm thinking of all the devices around my house I've got these as they say there's capacitive buttons and you know you think right okay how am I going to you know hey I don't want to have it now but I had a standing desk once I had to you know sell because I was just like I can't use this thing because anytime I even go near it it's just this desk going up and down then up and down and it was just because of the

54:41fight that you know I had these little capacitive buttons that you just couldn't you could never find them you know and so this that's amazing I'm a little washer dryer like that which is why I ask the question about transparency because it's a interface with the capacity buttons are lit up as well as being you know so they're text buttons mostly and then but if I could put something on them and they're hard to fard for me to read yeah but you know what I say it's our family they've got get used to it I'm sorry if you're watching TV in my house AD is always on you're not turning it off and if it's tactile stickers on the touchscreen get used to what that is of course if it's the laundry guess who gets to do the laundry the person who can read the laundry there you go well we got all that way and we got to screw this night it from Sean that's pretty much it that ends it there well listen thank you for that on that bombshell we shall say thank you to Shelley for joining us and also for taking the time to go around and talk to some amazing people we'll have more interviews from Shelley coming up we'll get them on air very very soon I promise you

55:42but for now Shelley thank you so much for being with us today it was my pleasure thank you Shelley that is it from us today we are back tomorrow we'll be talking to Jean-Marc Fagalli all about we walk and some interesting updates there and of course lots of your feedback to come up in the next week of double tap thanks Sean thank you bye bye capital one's tech team isn't just talking about multi agentic AI they already deployed one it's called chat concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love it helps schedule a

56:48test drive get pre-approved for financing an estimate trading value advanced intuitive and deployed that's how they stack that's technology at capital one