Behind the Scenes of a Double Tap Recording Disaster

0:00Oh hello, welcome to Double Tap, where today I think we owe you an apology. This is Double Tap, we're blind people talk tap. Here's Steven Scott at Shard Breeze. Oh hello, Sean Breeze, how are you my friend? Oh I'm surviving Steven Scott, how are you? Yeah, yeah you know what, I'll tell you I want to apologize to first. The one that only missed the ref. I'm so sorry Mr. I mean this is just to coin a phrase. Don't use it. Sean Breeze, I'm going to let you say it. That's how much. I'm going to second actually, I'm going to prepare you for this. This is what we call it. We are a debarkel sir. A debarkel. Absolutely right. Yes, a complete and utter debarkel. So here's a story, right? So on yesterday's show, we didn't meet reference to this yesterday's show because yesterday's show was actually the show that was meant to go the day before, but that didn't happen

1:01because of a couple of mishaps. Issues. Issues that we face. I have to say I have never spent so long not recording a radio show. I know. It was so interesting because in that recording that we did do, we mentioned how you know, quality and show thing is important to us. And it came back to bias. Big time. Didn't it? I think someone somewhere was watching that show and just saying, we're going to make sure this never, never looks the way it's meant to look or comes across the way it's meant to come across because by the end of it, and God love you, the people of social media, when I posted online that we weren't going to make it audio, many of you had great suggestions. You're going to have to fix it. Plud or sort it. Maybe you need a new AI to check out your video. I hear you, but trust me, even AI was going, you know what, I've got nothing. We can do nothing without it. There's nothing we can do with this.

2:02We are artificial intelligence, your artificial stupidity. And we can fix that. We're real stupid. Absolutely. Do you want to explain what the actual issue was? And listeners, you're going to love this one because we give the veneer of professional leaders to say to you. No, we don't. No, we're not professionals. And this will tell you why. So we started recording the show. And just as we started, in fact, I mentioned, I actually said at the top of the show, we've had a couple of issues today, getting started, but we're on the way now in the process of it. I'd close it on all my notes and all that. By the way, I hadn't closed my notes. They were at a tab on the computer and I found it later on the day. They were all sitting there. And I just couldn't find them. And honestly, complete disaster from end to end. So there they are hiding in my application tray. What do you call up when you do a command tab? What's that called? I don't do command tab. Application switcher. Anyway, whatever. So there I am. We started the show and immediately we had a message saying Sean's not recording.

3:06Now we don't, we have no control over that. It's a system that we use which essentially does all the recording in the cloud, right? So I'm like, okay, what do we do? So, well, simple answer. Turn off and on again, right? Turn off the computers off. Turn them all back on again. Absolutely fine. Not the whole internet, obviously. I mean, we weren't the reason why Outlook was off the other day. That wasn't anything to do with us. Not that I'm aware of. Wow. Who knows? Yeah, Exchange was down for a few hours as well, which was making me think there was a problem with the internet. Oh, we tried everything. Yes. We tried everything. But anyway, so we go back on. We record the entire show. Yes. And we get to the end and then we realize that Sean's whole part has not been able to not record it. Yeah. Suspicious, I say. Yeah. The funny thing is that we have to come off. We have to move focus off the recording service that we use because otherwise your screen reader is constantly saying a number at you. Yeah, it's really a progress bar. It's not loading your record. Yeah. Yeah. So that's okay.

4:06I'll move off. Not knowing that there was a message on there saying, yeah, you're not recording Sean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Always check. And look, I mean, it happens to everyone. That's all I'm going to say. Oh, it does. That's the first time it is hit us like that. So we had your recording. It was fine. We had this once before. We recorded a show. Yeah. It happened once ages ago on the old show. And I remember it because we were recording using, I think it's clean feed back in the day. Yes. And I never really got on with clean feed because it was a great system. Very accessible. Lots of work went into it. It's a great system. Just not for the kind of work we were doing. It was a bit too, it had a bit of a wobble to it every so often. And I thought, yes. So and that was nearly days and ferrons. I'm sure it's improved massively since then. But because we do video now, we clean feed's not an option for us at Saudi or only. So we recorded the show and my track hadn't recorded at all. Nothing had recorded on my record. That's fine. Yes.

5:07And at that time, I think there was like three or four of us on the show. So I was trying to wonder, could I mask this somehow? Could I kind of almost edit myself out of this particular episode somehow? Yes. Or just re record it. Well, playing along. Well, no, I was thinking, well, I can even mask it so that you guys all just chat amongst yourselves. Then I just somehow not be there. And I was never there. Could I make that work? Now, bear in mind, I was in a hotel at that point. I was traveling for work. So I'm in a hotel. I've got a tiny screen laptop. And I think, how am I going to do that? And I wasn't up on my voice over all jobs or MVD skills by then. And something, how am I going to do this? Yes. And so I thought, right, OK, I'll edit best I can. I'll try and make it work. But it was clear it wasn't going to work. So I thought the best thing I can do is exactly what you said. Re-record my parts. So basically redo the show into end on my own, trying to guess what I said and make it

6:08fit what you said and responded. Not the easiest. I'll be honest, not the easiest thing to do. And you know what's far quicker is just, you know what everyone, we need to record that show again. No, give up. Just forget it. Just go home. There's nothing to see here. Move on. So what I did was I recorded in the room. I remember you looking down the bed. Getting my little zoom recorder and taking the doofy. That came later. I then took the entire doofy and put it over my head. And I thought, anybody walks into the room at this moment in time. This is not going to look right. This is just going to, here's this guy laughing like a hyena. You know, underneath the doofy, nearly next to other people who are the people there. Yeah, exactly. Interesting factoid. That's how the life of Brian always look on the bright side of life. Song was recorded in a hotel room under a doofy. We are in great company. Hmm, there you go. Well done you. So yeah, basically my side wasn't recorded.

7:09Didn't notice till the end. And hence we tried to salvage it and fix it. And we just ran out of time. That was the problem. We ran out of time. And the thing is, we are actually able to, we were able to bring you the episode. Like, well, how did that happen? How did we get the episode yesterday? Did you read record it? No, we didn't. It's just that the system we use was delayed significantly and getting files out to us. And they actually do record everything in the cloud, which is great. So it means we can actually get access to the files, even though we can't get local recordings because they weren't there. The cloud recording, when we actually just talk over the internet as we do now, to record with each other, that part is recorded and it record individual recordings of each person. So it's actually really good. So there's always a kind of fallback. And I knew that fallback was there, but it was just trying to get access to it in time. So yeah, that was the problem. So that's why we had to delay the episode sadly. But yeah, we could have put it out on here. We did have a version we could have put out, but it wasn't, it really wasn't a great quality standard as far as I was concerned.

8:09So I thought, no, let's just hold it for a day. So hopefully you do everyone. Hopefully you do everyone. We tried our best, but yeah, we made it. Well, did we make a mistake? Oh, probably. Yeah, I'm sure we did. And then of course, it was just, well, let's re-record it. I still couldn't record. That was the problem. Yeah, that's right. You can do it. So that's why, you know, at that point, everything gets ripped out. All the cables were all over the place trying to figure out why I couldn't record. And I do love that you use the excuse of I ripped it my entire studio because one camera on a website would work. I'm somehow not thinking that the wiring in your shed has anything to do with the data center you're connected to. Yeah, but we tried. We tried everything and then it was like, well, let me try a different camera. Maybe that's the problem because soon as we press start record, it just say, no, you can't record. We did figure out in the end. Yeah, it was a weird thing. It was because we record in high quality 4K video. Why I have no idea what we do.

9:09And instead when we dropped it down to 1080p, which is, you know, kind of less than ideal standard, but fine for YouTube. I mean, high death instead of 4K. Well, that's right. Now you're in high death because that's when we can record the show. Yeah, so it's basically high death shot or no shot. I'll go with no show. I'm tempted. Yeah. Somebody actually somebody actually said, I'm surprised you can tell the difference when Sean's not there because that would assume that Steven shuts up long. It's a very fair point. You make it. It's a very good. God bless you social media. We love you. I'm controlled after my day of trauma. How dare you? So yeah, listen, we're also sharing, well, I'm personally sharing a bit of a, a similarity, something in common with one of the high head people at Apple. Yeah, I'm talking about Tim Cook, of course, who's just you retiring. Oh, well, it's been a lovely time. Yeah, who you get next? Mickey B. John Thomas. He's going to take over.

10:10He said, I want for this. I want some pro Apple stuff on this show. So I'm going to deal with it myself. No, I was thinking this, I'll take his Tim Cook did 15 years. And that's exactly how long I did it, R and I be, we have something in common. I mean, that's entirely different on every possible level. But, you know, to some of his interests, the number of grade is it? No, no. I don't know what Tim was on, but I'm guessing it's not the same. Mine's as much high. No, I'm not kidding. So yeah, Tim's gone. John Terness is in. I guess we're going to see him on the, when's it? The eighth ninth of the ninth ninth. For the Apple events surprise and shine. Is the surprise in John Terness? What? Be launched out of a Apple park. I'm not. I'm really interested. I know nothing about the guy. So I'm really interested to see the style here. Because of course, you know, Steve Jobs was the thing. He was the master of it. He was the thing that brought keynotes really to the forefront. No one cared about keynotes before Steve Jobs started doing that.

11:12So Tim Cook just sort of followed in his footsteps, I would say. He was fine, but yeah. But it just feels really polished now with it because it's not live. I'm not against that, but it just, I think it has lost a little bit. So I'm really interested to see how John does it. And John is hammer. He likes me to refer to him. Of course. Yeah, that's right. Well, when you join John the show next week, you can talk about that anytime. John, come on. Yeah, it's interesting because I don't really mind the live events going away. I'm quite happy for them to be prudered. I think when you see other companies doing it and you see the fails and the mistakes and the problems, okay, it's funny. It's amusing. It's got kind of a cuteness to it. But you also think, I just want to see the thing working. I don't really want to see it not working. That's great. I do want to see it working as in. I'm thinking of the AI, you know, this is a setup. This isn't a live demo. There's something about like, you mean the time they just basically lie down right and said,

12:14this is a feature that's coming and it never actually should have even built. Well, I mean, there's always going to be a degree of that. Anyway, this software is in pre beta or whatever it's saying. So there's always going to be a bit of that. But I don't know. I do, I do like the live moments. There's a feeling to it and atmosphere to it. Yeah. I get you. Okay. Are you looking forward to the event next week? I am actually just because there's chances of something new. You know, we've had the, I know they've been debunked and they're not coming. They are coming, but it doesn't make me think, well, maybe there is, you know, Apple TV, maybe we got the AirPods with cameras. We got Apple glass, a pinch. We got the, even though I'm not particularly interested in ever having one, the iPhone fold, I may be interested in see how they, you know, compared to the other folding devices out there. How Apple have gone about it. So yeah, I'm excited about this. Yeah, I mean, who knows, right? And the one thing I will say is we're recording this on Wednesday. So there is a good chance that Apple might surprise people by just dropping

13:16more products. I mean, they dropped them out many and the max studio of a sudden, the new versions of that. It could be the case that something like an Apple TV just appears as a press. That's true. Yeah, I hope so. I really want one. I am missing. It's funny. The Apple TV just sat there under my TV funnel enough for the longest time. It's like, yeah, do I? Do I really need this? Do I make full advantage of this? And two for the marries, it's just great for streaming media. It's just so good. I have the fire TV, which is what I've been using since then. The headless setup, I just connected to a Bluetooth speaker in my room. And it's fine, but you know what? It does lack that polish. And when we talk about all the time, yeah, technically it's accessible, but you know what, that Amazon voice guide is it called or voice view. The volume goes up and down all the time. So you're chasing, you're riding the volume controls because, you know, one minute, I can't hear what it's saying. And the next news, it's shouting at me and bellowing at me. And it's that sort of thing that you think, yeah, that just needs polishing up.

14:18But does anyone actually use the accessibility features before they ship it? Well, I will say that, you know, if anyone needs to talk about how to polish something up on it or on it here, I think it's us. So I don't think we should be throwing it. Dare you soons at glass walls or whatever. I would say people say that's the parts. Yes. And ports. Don't throw glass ports at that. That right. I'm so excited by the event. I suppose I am a little bit. I can't I want to see the airports. That's what I really want to see the airports with the cameras. I mean, the rest is fine. I mean, yes, I like the idea of the new Apple TV. I'd buy one. I don't know what the feature set would be. There would be so exciting at event. I mean, unless I mean, I guess it's all going to be around city AI. That's going to be the thing. Siri AI, that can be cool. Yeah, I just hope the implementation is good. And certainly the way that the remote control works, at least in my setup, I find it very difficult to use Siri or any even the dictation feature. I find quite difficult. It doesn't always work particularly well. So I don't I have a feeling it's because my Apple TV is mounted behind my television.

15:21And I think there's a connection issue here. There's some kind of blue to that. Well, that's the thing, but it doesn't seem to always connect. Sometimes the remote just doesn't work at all. I've checked battery. You know, it's not dying. It's not running a battery. So I'm a bit confused as to have you tried on peeling it. That was a nightmare because I unpeared it. And then oh, yeah, how do I? How'd you do it? I know. Yeah. I've got three different Apple TV remotes. I mean, you've even got an Apple TV anymore, but I've got three. I've got the very first one. You know, the very small one with the touch surface square at the top. And I've got another one. And I know I've got the one that's in sat on my mantelpiece now. I actually think the latest one was really good. The remote is lovely. The remote is fine. It's just the connection I'm having issues with. And I thought maybe I need to, I mean, it's funny because you have to pair an Apple remote to an Apple TV. You have to get like within an inch of the machine, actually an inch of the Apple TV. Now, for most people who've got it under the television, sitting next to the TV, that's fine because mine wasn't behind my television. And I didn't know where because the guy who installed the TV put it in the back of the TV.

16:24I had no idea what it actually was. So there I am on a step ladder in front of the TV climbing up, trying to put my hand behind the TV. Is your TV that you got to get on the step ladder? It's pretty on the ceiling. You can't reach behind it by standing next to it. I'm pretty tall. You have to have a step by and you go up and then you have lean in behind it. I think that I can't be fine. Yeah, I know what I mean, it's, it's, it works fine, but it's just the remote controllers you've got. Never mind it where it's fine. So when you sat on your sofa trying to watch TV, you're looking up like you're looking for an airplane or something. Were you talking about it? Well, it's on the wall. It's above the fireplace. What, you need a step ladder to reach that anyway. Okay. Well, to get behind it as well, I mean, I'm not just, you know, I don't know what kind of arms you've got. Well, yeah, like Mr. Tickle apparently, but I'm like, how big is your TV? So I look slender man over there. Sorry. Anyway, moving on. Shall we get some emails? Yes, I think we should. Oh, please. Yes, please.

17:25Email. We get email. We get your email every day. Zin, John. Here's your mail today. Oof. Is this thing one? Am I, am I being recorded? Do you know what? Actually, so just going to check just, yeah, go check, just go check. And we'll, we'll wait here. Now, of course, if I'm seeing all this and you're not hearing Sean, please, then we'll know the answer to that. In fact, we've been ahead of it for minutes. Oh, yeah, no, I'm recording. It's fine. I didn't hear anything you just said. So it's fine. Excellent. Okay. Well, that's probably the best way to consume double tap. I've got it. Right. Let's, let's, I've been one of our listeners. Someone who haven't heard from our wild is Lena. Hello, double tapers. This is Lena. I am recording this on August 30th. And last week when there was another contribution about a him resource, Sean Pries said, keep those him those coming. You did say that, Sean. Yes. So here you go.

18:26Oh, thank you. I like him, which has already been mentioned so much that I paid the 40 bucks for an annual subscription so that I can download sheet music for the different people that I play with and have access to some of the research libraries that aren't free. But I'd like to introduce four more resources, all free, completely free. Two websites and two iOS apps. We'll talk about the websites first him serve. Dot com, H Y M N S E R V. Dot com. They have lots of him's up there. Some traditional and some contemporary. They are beautifully played by Elaine Johnson. And you can download the MP3 files. The other site I use a lot is OPC dot org slash him know dot H T M L.

19:33That's O Oscar P Papa C Charlie. They have a number of him knows available. They offer MIDI and MP3 files. You get music words, lots of resources, all for free. Now the two apps, which are also free and I like a lot and use a lot are Trinity Sultar him know. I'm sorry, I can't say that fast Trinity Sultar him though. It has traditional hymns, Psalms. And then a lot of extra resources that churches use, especially denominational churches, like the Apostles Creed, the confession of faith. And finally, possibly in my favorite app of all the ones I've tested is A to N hymno.

20:37That's A is an alpha number two. And as a November, that's put out by the X to network. There's just all kinds of hymns of this. And you have the option of reading the lyrics or pushing the play button. And you will hear it played. Okay, double tapers. Happy singing and happy tapping. Happy singing and happy tapping. Thank you, Lena. I appreciate that. That's a fantastic. Resource that's what I love about the community here. We just help each other out. Amazing. And you know what? Spell type as well. Oh, what do we keep forgetting to do is to spell it out. Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for those resources. I'm sure lots of people will be making use of those. You know, I haven't had from Lena in a while. And I remember you telling me a long time ago about an Apple Watch wrist strap,

21:37which was great for people like myself, the large gentleman who occasionally sweats without activity. What? I am a very clever person. You know, I don't need, I don't need to exercise. I can exercise my sweat still. Yeah, sweating away. Share a force of mind and will. That's it. The brain is doing all the work up here. And as a result, my Apple Watch kept sliding down my wrist every time I was going to sign it really. Right. Yeah, exactly. I totally discussed it. So Lena had suggested a wrist strap, which was ideal for this. And I bought a pack of them. I'm still using them to this day. Absolutely wonderful recommendation. So thank you, Lena. Thank you. Let's go to tests. Dear podcast team, I am a regular listener from Malaysia and a member of the blind community. I recently purchased two different AI smart glasses, the Meta Ray ban and a Rokehead style. And I wanted to share my hands-on experience to help other listeners

22:38who might be considering these assistive tools. Here's a quick summary of my findings. Meta Ray ban pros excellent hardware and seamless integration with apps like WhatsApp, BMI, eyes and Orion. Cons the charging case is less convenient than USB. More importantly, it has significant regional restrictions. In Malaysia, I must first use a VPN to access AI features. And it currently does not support my native languages, Chinese and Malay. Rokehead style. Pros exceptional value. I got mine for under 120 US dollars, including shipping. It supports USB C charging. The gesture controls are great. I can long press to wake Siri, unlike Meta, which is locked to Meta AI. I can customize other gestures, such as reading text in front of me using double finger press and hold. It allows switching between Gemini and chat GPT. It works perfectly in my region and supports translation for the languages I use daily.

23:38Cons. Rokehead doesn't really play well with other apps. On top of that, Rokehead might start charging a monthly subscription fee after the first year. Conclusion. If the price tag is basically the same and you can use English well, Meta Ray ban is the way to go. It's more polished and the AI actually helps with your life. But if you prefer to use your own languages, such as Mandarin, Malay or other languages, which is not available in Meta, then Rokehead style is a better choice. Thank you for the great show, Bester Guards, tests from Malaysia. Wow. Thank you, Tess. That is very useful because we were asking about the Rokehead glasses the other day. But we're wondering how they actually work, how they perform in relation to the Meta Ray ban, because I haven't tried these glasses. No, and I'm hearing more and more people actually talking about Rokehead. So how do you say it? Rokehead. Yes. Rokehead. I'll spell it for you. Rokehead. Rokehead. I.D. Rokehead. Rokehead. I.D. Rokehead. Yeah, I'm seeing more and more people testing them out and actually liking the results.

24:41So we should try these at some point. You know what the problem is? Is that application support or service support? You know, everyone wants be my eyes on there and Orion and whatever else. What's that? And you know, it seems wrong that you've got to make that choice. I don't know where the, where the obstacle here is, where is the barrier? Is it the companies? Is it like be my eyes and Orion and scribe me? Are they not looking to move out to the other, you know, smart glasses are available? Or is it the smart glasses company themselves who aren't making the resources needed to make apps supported? I honestly don't know, but that's the only barrier at the minute I can make it. Look, I mean, you and I have talked a lot about different companies and the integrations they have with other products and so on. And we've also spoken to many developers over time who talk about the challenge of doing it. Now, I know we could all, especially those of us in the blind community who are currently vibrating everything under the sun and come out with solutions.

25:42I mean, I built another app last night just because you did. You know, and it's like, I was going to, I was going to my bed. It was a little of a clock at night and I'm like, I've got this idea. I'd quite like, I'd love to be able to just save all the links I find during the day to one's particular location. So I'll just build this little thing called stash. This was a Claude's idea of a name. And I thought, I quite like that. I'm a stash of links and things I want to go back to. And then I built it so it's in its cloud based. It works between my iPhone, even built an iPhone app. It built the Windows app. And it's all working and beautifully and sink across to the bed. I did that. I live in a clock last night, do it by an hour. And it's accessible, right? We've got a lot of other services that we've tested out and we've tested quite a few. Just never quite worked when it comes to accessibility. But and you know, when you do that, it does make it harder for you to believe that a company when they say, oh, we'll get around to fixing that. I will get around to that integration. You know, just we haven't got the resources in the time. You know, up to about six months ago, I'd have said, well, after speaking to the developers, I get it. I understand the challenges.

26:42You've got a lot of different platforms to deal with. But now I'm thinking, if you brought AI into this and look, I mean, this is a much bigger conversation, but it's worth having and it's an important one to have. And I think companies need to start getting into this way of thinking if they're not, I think they'll fall behind. Because ultimately, what has happened in the last year, I would say, is we've seen the potential, those of us who are not coders, those who are not into this kind of thing, and who just think it's all a bit beyond us have realized the capability we have at our fingertips now, the things that I can achieve, I could never have done. Building an iPhone app was so outside of my wheelhouse, you know, I was, I was going to people say, how much would it cost to build something like this? And they'd be hitting me with $15,000. And I'm like, well, that seems fair enough. I mean, they're doing all this work. Now, I mean, I'm building it on my own cross platform, like sink to the cloud, things that I could never have done. Now, my point here is up until recently, we used to hear developers say, you know,

27:44well, if we want to implement this or we want to build this, then, you know, we have to put a team on it. Fine. Okay. And that takes resources and we don't have those resources or a small team. Right. And that's I hear that here all the time. And I get it. And I also understand, but I also understand that there's a challenge with businesses, just go, they can't just go to Claude or chat GPT and say, build me this version of this. Like, I remember when B. My Eyes were talking about the Mac OS app and we were at C Son a couple of years ago, and we were sitting down with Mike Buckley and we were asking, so where's the Mac OS app? We've been waiting for it. And then we're still two years later, we were waiting for it finally arrived. Yeah. Now at that time, portal understand, but if someone said to me, now, well, it's going to take two years for this app to develop, I'd be like, why? Because you can build it in a night. Now, at the point I want to get here, this is important. This is because this is important. I'm waiting for you to give your caveats. Okay.

28:44Well, there's a nuance to this and it's important because businesses won't just go to chat GPT or Claude, right? Because they don't want their own source code. They don't work. They've done going out into the public's fear being used by others, essentially being soaked up by the AI, right? That's a big issue. And that is why that hang on. That is why companies like Apple who've kind of mistakenly, you know, wondered like, like, like a man in the night wandering into the kitchen, you know, just, yes, yeah, accidentally finding gold, right? I mean, bit will your analogy be okay? Okay. Yes. Imagine that happened. Just imagine that happened and move on. Essentially, Apple has done years with the development of the Silicon chip and the capability of what they can do with these machines with the Max Studio, the Max Mini and all the rest. They've actually developed something which means that companies now, especially with the new range of Max studios that are coming, can go out and buy one of these machines and have all the work they need to do, all this stuff we are wanting to do.

29:51Local. They don't have to have this running in a cloud in a data center with only the caveats and concerns that come with that. Right. Finished. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me re-sort. I look forward to your retort. Retort. I don't think. Stop it. I don't think local AI is at a stage where at the same stage as anything like codex or a Claude code or anything like that yet. I know. I know they're very powerful. The new studios, for example, very powerful. Still not at a same level, right? But aside from that, the point that you made they wouldn't want their source code going out to a, you know, a server farm somewhere. Aside from that, they also wouldn't they've got a much bigger responsibility for the state of that code. Right. So even when that code comes back, let's say they do it, they use vibe coding almost as the accessibility checker, right? Make this. They still need to go through that code line by line to double check what it's done.

30:54So there's still going to be a much longer development time to that because they can't just like any app that app you built last night. Right. You throw it out there for people. You don't know how it's done it. You don't know the code, right? We're relying on the AI itself to say that this code is doing everything it should do in the right way and it's safe to use. A company that like be my eyes for the Mac, you know, they can't do that. They need to make sure that that code is doing exactly what it's. Things can be true at the same time. Yes, you absolutely can have that safety and security with having locally. And by the way, I refute your retort. I don't know if that's the right phrase, but I will use it anyway. I refute that because I think, yes, you're right. If you want to chat GBT or a Claude existence on your own home computer or on a very powerful, even the most powerful Mac studio, it's not going to be happening right now. No, absolutely right. That's not how people are using AI locally.

31:57They're using bits of it. They're using parts of it. Find a specific example apart from the gold kitchen. I don't know why that was going. Your specific example was good either to be careful. In my head, it was under great when I started speaking and then it fell up, fell to bits as soon as it came out my mouth, built in this program to be perfectly honest at the time. You're about vibe coding. That's the aspect of AI that you're talking about is taking this existing code and, you know, either making it accessible or making it work on another platform, another OS. This is why we talk about the models. This is why it's important to learn about how the models work and what they do because there are models designed for specific functions. So coding might be one of them. I mean, for me, it's more likely transcription, if I want something to transcribe. But they're not interested in transcription. No, I'm not. I'm not saying they're not transcription. They're talking about, stay on topic. Yeah, but I'm talking about coding. I'm saying the models are built for different purposes. You're talking about a general model that can do everything. I'm not talking about coding.

32:57And Claude and Skull. No, no, no, no, no, no, you are because you're saying you can't run locally. I like a GPD or Claude. I did not say that. I did take those words out of my mind. I said those exact or similar words. Listen, gold kitchen. What I actually said, gold kitchen was called kitchen or a Claude code. And specifically, that's why I use those words codex because it's vibe coding that we're talking about. No way that's running. Well, I tell you this is exactly what the business people are not telling me, but they're telling a people who know about business. You go around these business podcasts. You look into the articles around this. They're all saying the same thing. All the hedge fund managers, all the coders, they're all buying these Mac studios. There's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of these things are going to be sold in minutes because they're all going to buy one and they know they can run what they need to run their software on it locally. And of course, you're absolutely right. They're going to be doing that coding as well. I'm not suggesting that BMIIs gets into vibe coding BMIIs apps.

33:59What I'm saying is AI assisted coding is going to be the future, I think. And that can speed up the process of delivery. So it's no longer waiting for a two year integration. I mean, one example of this, which we've talked about a number of times, is R&IB talking book service in the UK being available in the Victor Reader. Yes. If I had five minutes with the guy from human wear and the person from our idea, I'd be, and I could get the three was in a room. I can probably put this together myself in minutes. I could. I could. I could build this in a minute. No, I don't need to just bring them to go and say, right, what's the API? What's the thing you've got that connects to that? Do you remember the bit and back to the future when Doc, he has to run to the top of the clock. Can he has to connect the power from? Oh, yes. That's right. That's basically exactly that with the R&IB talking books. And the human vector together. Imagine that, seeing in your head when the thing clicks together, everything's fantastic. That.

35:00Okay. How did we get onto this from, was that the glasses comparison? Because the point is that the integrations are waiting forever for these integrations, like you're waiting forever for the end of the story. Again, no, your R&IB talking books and human wear, for example, I mean, human wear used the standard API for talking for audio books, services and R&IB just aren't using that. I remember from the interview that we did. So I mean, again, I know, again, this is things in place. They're just, it's not happening for whatever reason. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you, though. Fix it. Right. Fix it. Because it's because all the tools are there. Look, I can build an app in a night and I'm in an idiot. I agree. It's the, I can build an app which works on my phone that is fully accessible in an hour. You're telling me that's not possible. You can't connect these things, which by the way are all, I mean, this is the other thing. A lot of people say, and I actually find this amusing though.

36:01There's always this thing, the anti-AI people. And there's lots of them out there now. Lots of the anti-AI people say, oh, well, you know, you know, you've got your apps there and you're just being vibe-coded and any old rubbish has been put in there. I'm sorry. I don't know exactly what code is in any app that I buy. How am I to trust every single line of code that comes from a developer is 100% accurate? I'm sorry. I don't entirely believe that. I've bought enough tables from Amazon that are no named to know that not everybody knows how to put a table together. Okay. Well, very good. Thank you. And if you've got experience of rock-aid smart glasses, get in touch and let us know. And we'll talk about kitchens and golden tables. Because the whole thing was that, you know, they wandered into this with the Mac studio and the Mac media infernities. Yes, like we often do into the kitchen and find gold. Wandered and scratching their head, wondering what to do. And they're like, oh, what's this? It's the future of computing. I see.

37:02I think that's what's all made sense. Yeah. Next to email please. You know, rehearsal. As I said, we're a show at quality. It's all about the quality, that's what it's always about. Right. Thank you for that. Tess really appreciate the message. Lovely to have you listening from Malaysia. I'm lovely to hear about everyone's from. Do tell us where you're from when you're sending in your messages. Because I love these tests. I mean, you have to thank you, Sean. Thanks. I'll see you know. Thanks. Right. Okay. Let's move on. Stephen Sean, all you double tap, Gang out there, hope you're all well. Stephen just listened to your podcast today. Got this stop it and send this voice message regarding the experience you had with your guide dog and the voice messages you received about it. I'd very much agree to you. Like the professionalism is what's key here. We are people who use services. I had an example where an occupation of her was came to my house when I had my guide

38:03dog. She was afraid to come into the house. I had to put the dog outside in the garden. It wasn't even a nice day. I couldn't even leave her in her own house. And I, you know, I was really amazed by this. I only had the dog a few weeks then around that same time when I was in work. My manager raised an issue about the guide dog. She found the open day and said, Oh, is everyone okay with you having the guide dog on work? And I said, Yeah, she's always it not just because they're being nice to you. And I said, Is there a problem here? And she said to me, Oh, well, she kind of paused for a minute. She didn't, you know, she wasn't getting to the point. I said, Look, is there an issue? And she said, Oh, well, I'm, I have a fear of dogs. And she said, and they've gone to HR to ask them, What can be put in place for staff who are afraid of guide dogs? So I tried not to laugh and I said, Okay, I understand you're frightened of dogs. I get that. But I said, I have, this is my mobility aid as well as a living animal.

39:06I have to be able to get into work. I said, you got something you're going to talk to HR about. I said, but HR probably won't answer this answer your query because they're going to be concerned about how they would even handle it to begin with. So yeah, look, you know, I agreed to when we're in the workplace, things got on our nerves every day are regularly about accessibility. Maybe someone doesn't treat us very well because they're unsure how to address press with disability or they're just really unaware. And we can fly off the handle, but then you have people, you know, coming out with certain comments and making statements and, you know, instead of getting to the point and, you know, so I agree with you. It was the fact that you weren't addressed by the person. They just said, I'm not dealing with that. They went off and they got upset. Like my question is in these so-called professional health services is that surely there is awareness

40:08given the staff right at the start, well, you could meet someone who's a guide dog. So anyone who's a fear needs to let us know now. And yeah, so look, there's my input there anyway. I love when the show is always great content. Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, look, we've talked about this quite a lot, but I do appreciate your comments. And not everyone shares your view, Dan. I mean, I know our long-term listener Greg does not share your views on this. We've had various emails back and forth. I'm not, I'm choosing not to read out Greg's email because it did contain a profanity which I'm not prepared to air. And I do like to air people's messages in full. But you know, ultimately there was a lot of eat towards me on this particular message. We're just fine, absolutely fine. No issue with that. Disagree with your opinion. I think the problem is we've had this conversation back and forward a number of times and we're never going to agree on it. So there's no point continuing to to leave other point. However, to Dan's point, I go back to this issue a bit professionalism.

41:13And I think it's interesting because you've said this a lot, Sean, about awareness. We talk about it with taxis, right? People just, you just know and it proves time and time again. It's not that they don't know. It's that they just don't expect it. They don't expect it. And that situation with Dan there in the workplace. I mean, that's appalling. That's appalling. That's even a discussion point. You know, it wasn't placed for you if you don't like dogs, move desk. I don't know, move to a different office. Go away. I don't know. Please do board accommodation, Stephen Scott. I mean, you know, do your accommodation is, but what should that, what's the answer then? What does staff do? What should someone do when they're in a situation where someone doesn't like dogs in the office? What do you do? One of you's got to move. One of you's got to go. Why don't you go? Yeah, no, you've got to go. But I mean, it might be the case of, you know, I mean, look, I've got to offices where people who don't like dogs before. I mean, I didn't have a guy dog then, but my friend did. And they just engage with the dog. And to be fair, I think there's another side to this. Excuse me. There's another side to this, which is really important.

42:14And that is control of your dog. Because this is something which I've seen before. And it's important to understand, we all, we all as guy dog owners, we have responsibility here. And you know, I am very aware of my dog's behavior and how the dog is being when the dog is off lead all the very rarely is off lead in a public, never in a public sector. Of course, and running around a park, however, that's different on the free run. But when in the office or in someone's home, the dog is always on lead and always under my feet. That's true. That's what it's. Under control. I mean, dogs, I mean, they're trained. That's the whole thing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's the thing people, yes, they are trained. You're right. Yes. But, you know, the best dogs in the world that are trained can still be mischievous and they can still, you know, they, they take chances. My cocoa does it all the time. Oh, I blame the parents and you have to keep on top of it. You just have to.

43:14You know, having people in the house, friends or family and they'll say to me, because as soon as she gets up from the bed, I'm like, bed, no, bed. And she goes back to her bed and that's fine. But people say, oh, no, no, don't do that. She's really nice. I mean, this is a trained animal. This dog requires the, this, I'm not a work that's going into this training. You know, it is important that we maintain it. You know, she's not a pet. I know when, I know when the harness is off, just good fun on all the rest and we can have some fun and we do, but it has to be controlled and that's the thing you have to keep control. So I've worked with people before who the dog just wonder about all over the place and I was a bit kind of, yeah, because that can create problems because if someone is nervous of a dog, then having the dog just wander up to all the time is not great. Well, again, professionalism goes both ways. Yeah, it depends on the environment you're in. I mean, every time I see a guide dog in any public situation, they're always under the table, let down having a sleep or whatever.

44:14They're always perfectly behaved. Yeah. Okay. We talk about that enough anyway. I agree. I agree. I do think that's an important point. I'm not saying for a second that that's the case with this environment, but professionals are both ways, but I also wonder what that solution was. I'd love you to come back and tell us if there was any, ever any, into that story in regards to what happened to the member of staff, because what do you do in a situation like that? That's a bit of a confusion that has been only terrified of a dog. Obviously, no one should be wanting to put that person in any kind of position of upset and concern. If they are genuinely concerned and upset about it, then that needs to be dealt with somehow. And if it meant, and here's the thing, if that meant, if that was me, for example, and someone said, look, we're in an office here and there's a couple of people who really don't like dogs that are really scared. We're going to have to move you to a different part of the office, or maybe a different part of the building. I think that would be fair. Yeah. I'd be okay with that because it can always be, well, I'm blind so therefore I come first.

45:17Can't be that either. Could it be careful here, right? That's what you talk about with reasonable accommodations. So it may be appropriate for that person to move, but then if you've just arrived in the company, if you're just brand new to the job, say, and I'm not saying you are, but if this person was new to the company, then if you moved in your office at the early stage, you'd care. Yeah. True. It's usually common sense, but okay. Oh, God. If only. If only. Right. Well, this is a long one, but I'm going to play it in because it's quite important. This is on what place again, but this time on inclusion and accessibility challenges. This is Dan's message. I have worked all my adult life. I'm severely certain paired and with age and changing, slightly changing issues, I now need to use text to speech for the majority of reading. They will do have sight, and I can manage some, but it's the amount and duration. And when you're interacting with a computer screen, all day, it's really hard work.

46:18My employer really struggles with this and not for the first time. I am sitting around waiting for them to sort out, scripting. They started off by scripting one program of 13 that I needed to use to do my frontline job. We are now somewhere around five or six. I've only been working there for nearly four years. And for two of those years, I've actually been effectively not working for some of it, not actually doing my role at all. It's really tough. I have tried to look at elsewhere. I've been through capability process where they are trying to get me gone. They realised that that's not happening. But everywhere I turn, it's just the same story trying to find something that you can do, that you think that's not going to be so much of a problem to actually undertake.

47:19And then you get there and it's causing all sorts of problems. It's not the first time I've had this. I've ended up leaving a job in the past due to this and associated negative comments from seeing the management. And yeah, do you know what the whole thing around 25% people working, I totally get that. Those figures were done, I were released by RNIB. I think it might have been the 90s or the naughties from a study that they did. I am assuming by that that they have just looked at working age people, but I can't remember. But it doesn't surprise me being 51 years old, nearly 52 years old now, and having come through all of this for all of my life, trying to get by using the limited type that I have realised it. It's never been easy, but I have had some long-term and successful jobs.

48:22But I believe within the totally blind world, or within the blind world, where there's no usable vision, I think my figure drops somewhere to around 10%. And I think that that's a fair, true reflection personally from the people that I know. And yeah, it's a really sad situation. We're not going to get anywhere with helping people into work with a disability and especially blindness, because people, as you say, they understand the physical built environment, they don't understand the site. For me, I'm a real enigma of that, because I have some side, but I can't use it to work, because it's too impacted on me. I mean, how an effort we're ever going to combat that, where the organisations can't work in a home, and they just go, it's too much of a problem, get rid.

49:25And, you know, a number of people, I'm sure, in this same situation. The idea of using be my eyes in the workplace, I like that idea, I love the tech that works with, but I know that with GDPR being at the forefront of every organisation's mind, there is no way that they are going to allow anything anywhere near sensitive to go towards be my eyes, as you have unvetted volunteers, mending the other end of that. I'm not going to understand that they are there. Or what processes there are, they're not going to accept that as being appropriate to ensure data security, and especially I work with a utility company, not the people you pay the bills to, but somebody else, and they're considered a part of national infrastructure, and therefore there's all sorts of extra security implications.

50:26And it was hard enough for them to accept jaws in the environment, the amount of questions that we went through with jaws and fusion to have that on computers was crazy, and getting blazy vetted to six months. So, none of this is straightforward, none of it is easy, and none of it makes life a pleasure. It's a constant battle, as one of my managers said, why is everything a battle with you? And it's because we have to battle in every area of our life. I appreciate I have rattled on for quite some time, so if you listen to this, fabulous guys. Thank you for everything you do. You hit notes so many times with things that I recognize and see in life and go, Christ, it's not just me, nice, stagmas discussion. Around a similar time, I think, or maybe earlier this year, it was very interesting, and certainly as a reason that I struggled to look at a screen all the time.

51:27And I didn't realize that until you guys talked about it. So thanks for everything that you do, and I will keep listening and maybe send you a few further. Voice notes, hopefully not nearly seven minutes, though. Cheers. I don't care. I think it was wonderful. I wanted to hear every second of it. I actually, you probably noticed, Dan, I did a little bit of editing on that, but just to bring it a little bit down in time, a bit more importantly, to make sure your point was heard clearly, because what you said there will resonate with a lot of people out there who are going through a very similar situation to you. Now, I have to be fair and say, when I was in work, I was very fortunate with the R&IB, you know, as you would expect with me, because I lost organization. Yeah, I would hope so. It wasn't perfect, but no organization of that size is. But I certainly felt far more listened to and understood, and I don't think anyone would have gotten away with saying anything like people said to you there. But I know way too many people who have said exactly the same thing to me privately.

52:30And I'm really glad you said this out loud, because this is the real talk that we need to have. This is what's really going on in business with blind people, not charities for sighted people, but for blind people who are working there. This is what's happening in business. This almost despising of us. Almost why you're trying your problem. Why are you hard? Well, I mean, listen to what Dan said. Why is everything always a battle with you blind people? Why is everything a battle with you? I mean, how horrible is that? How horrible is that? That is despicable behavior. It is exactly what you said there, Dan. It was about the people listening to what you just said, and saying, oh, it's not just me. You know, because I think you're right. I think you're right, Stephen. It's just this is something we hear time and time again. The amount of time it takes. Why you're there? People hear that and think, oh, you don't have to actually do any work. This is great. But for two years, it's so destroying.

53:30Because you want to work. That's the point. That's the whole point of it. And it just grinds you down. And I've heard that story time and time again. I've just got to leave. Because I'm not doing anything. So, yeah, absolutely terrible. I do just want to clear up the B-My Eyes thing. You mentioned about the volunteers, and GDPR or whatever privacy protocols that a business has. In that case, the B-My Eyes for Work uses the other workers in that organization. So, your colleagues, for example, would be the people that would be helping you out. It's not a strange volunteer. A stranger volunteer. A stranger volunteer. A stranger volunteer. We don't know. But it's other people that work for the organization that would be helping you in that case. That's how that particular thing works. Yeah, you're not going out to the volunteer base for that. No. So, they would be as trained as you are in GDPR or whatever. And so, within the corporate side. Exactly. You're covered, which is actually really important.

54:32And it's a good point. But I agree with you. I agree with you that the challenge here is getting employers on board. And there'll be, it's a bit of the civility confidence thing I've seen. And I only talk about that because it's the UK, and I know about it. You know, the scheme where businesses could sign up to be disability confident. And I think the acceptance was, yeah, we've heard of disabled people. And that was kind of basically by saying the word disabled enough. It's like Beetlejuice. You say it three times and one will never appear. It's generally what you'll find in these companies. Right. That's enough complaining. What's the answer here? What is the answer? Let us know. I think site loss organizations should take over. If you need a script right, and it shouldn't take that long, there's people out there that can do this. They should be employed by site loss, site loss organizations to get this stuff done quicker. Get the site loss on board. That's what we need. Yes, that's what I have. Vib code everything. Just Vib code everything. Problem solved. You never know. And get someone to check. That's it. Always get someone to check your homework.

55:32Preferably not you and something on me. Thank you, goodbye. Thank you. Bye-bye.