BLUEPRINT: Will Utah Jazz DUPLICATE Thunder or Celtics Rebuild with Darryn and Ace?

0:00This is the Lockdown Podcast Network celebrating 10 years of your team every day. Thank you for making Lockdown your first listen every day. For your second listen, find the Lockdown NBA Podcast where there's no offseason. West Matt and Hayes keep you up to date on contract negotiations, rumors and everything you need to be the most informed NBA fan. Find Lockdown NBA on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. The jazz are finally out of the rebuild and they're trying to emulate the thunder. Can they? You are locked on jazz, your daily podcast on the Utah Jazz. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

1:05What's up jazz nation, leave to lean with you here on Lockdown Jazz. My name is leave to lean and I can't wait for the jazz basketball season. We've been waiting for four years. Today on the episode, I'll talk about, we're emerging out of the rebuild. Who can we parallel our rebuild with compared to successful ones of the years past. I've got three big ones, the thunder, the pistons and the Danny Ainsjara Boston Celtics. I'm going to compare, contrast and talk about where the jazz can live up to those height and also where they probably fall short but all ahead unlocked on jazz. Let's dive right in. First things first, the thunder are exactly what everyone in the NBA wants to be. We can all deny it, the spurs beat them, but the spurs have Victor and Benyama. They got lucky, they got the number one pick, they got the number two pick and the number four pick. All of them were great. Yes, that would have been an ideal situation which you get the best prospects since LeBron James and Victor and Benyama.

2:07You were bad a couple of years and you fast-tracked to being a title contender very shortly with a guy basically all NBA bound in their second year of castle. And then the third, the third rookie, or sorry, the third youngest if you go to chronological error. You basically go all NBA best player, most viable player in the NBA, all NBA and all defense and castle. And then perhaps a better player than castle and harbor. So I don't think that's one you can emulate, but the thunder are and the thunder did something of the jazz. I think have tried to emulate and stockpiling picks and having their own picks and then try to win after years of being bad. So the thunder were awful and I mean awful worse than the jazz were and they tank better than the jazz did and they were awarded by getting Chell Holmgren. And they got Jalen Williams and I love the 12 pick, but the point is they have two all NBA caliber players that were homegrown. They have Shakeyild just Alexander who of course was traded for but I almost want to call that homegrown because everyone's lying if they think, oh yeah, like, yeah, the thunder easily won that trade when giving up third in the MVP race Paul George.

3:19Yes, it ended up being a disastrous trade for the Clippers by the way the Clippers and all those sanctions are crazy. I'll talk about that another episode, but I think the thunder are maybe not attainable to do what they did and build the dynasty they've they look like they've built, but the jazz have some parallels. So let's dive into it. The jazz have traded for a star and Jalen and Che are not one and the same, but they've traded for Lowry and Jalen and those are win now moves. They have had draft picks that the jazz hope can be all NBA and that's A's and D.P. The two homegrown all NBA guys are Chet and J.Dub. And I like I said I count Che is mostly homegrown in this. So there's some parallels. The other one would be the jazz have been bad for a while, but they've been stockpiling picks and everyone's frustrated. It's like, okay, when are we going to start winning? We're going to do these picks matter. Well, now's when those matter the fact that you have assets becomes far more important when you can actually win a championship.

4:26So in a couple of years when the jazz have picks and they say, you know what we want to win now player. The jazz can make it that matters more than having a million picks and routinely being bad. Now the jazz missed on some picks. I think it's fair to say that both Taylor Hendrix and Cody Williams were bad picks. And the jazz were terrible in tanking like why on earth were we at 26 and 26 in one of those years. Why were we 10 and three to start the year of Victor and Banyama. It was ridiculous bothered me to my core. But the jazz are out of it and have the franchise talent that happens to be a guard that happens to have similar dimensions to the guard for the Oklahoma City Thunder shake. So Alexander is the two time defending MVP. And if you were to look at them both out of college, you'd say DPs, the more talented player. Of course, the TPs of two time defending MVP. You'd be pretty happy with that. I think DPs can be one of the best 10 players in the NBA. So, okay, there's your one. Now you got Lowry and you've got Jaren. And I think they're not one in the same with how Chet and J. Dubbar like the time monitor obviously different.

5:34So you have players that can help the ascension of Darren Peterson. And then more similar to the thunder, I think, than anything for the jazz is that their timeline is dependent on a young star. And they can grow together. And this is where I think the jazz and thunder most similar. Their young star is Darren Peterson. Well, grow alongside of Ace Bailey who in this would be the J. Dubb. The chat home grin. I don't know if the jazz quite have, but let's just say for the sake of things, can you on to George factors into this equation of a young player that can grow alongside the absolutely does. Of course, the positions are different. The level of talent, the level of traffic, a little bit different. But what's not different is that the jazz have two win now players in Lowry and Jaren that are all star caliber. You have your all NBA hopeful guy that you're growing around. And then you have two other players that are of the same timeline as your superstar in Ace and Kionte.

6:38And so the jazz can try to do it. The thunder did now with the thunder have and built that the jazz did not is have defensively oriented players. The jazz right now other than trading for Jaren Jackson do not have any of that sort. And they had case and walless Lou door like Alex Caruso went for heart andstein. So the jazz need to use their assets, which is what they emulate the thunder they said, you know what if we're going to trade Rudy go bear we're going to get a ton of picks for we're going to trade Donovan Mitchell we're going to a lot of picks for him. We're going to make a trade with the sons and get more picks. So those picks don't matter as much anymore. Ideally the Lakers are terrible in in a year and the jazz can use their picks. Ideally stuff goes disastrous lead for the teams that the jazz traded with the jazz get their great picks like that like sometimes it's works for the thunder. But it doesn't always happen that way. But the jazz now have the opportunity say you know we have this pick that we might give to you like the thunder did.

7:46And we're going to try with a core that the jazz have now that is ready to win. And you say Darren's 28 per game in year three we're going to have 55 wins we're missing defense we're going to trade for our Alex Caruso. We need to get ourselves the case in Wallace is the Lou Dorts we need the role players that have the same timeline that have traits that none of the other players have that's for the thunder ahead of the Utah jazz. And the jazz a tainy with the thunder did would be very very difficult I want to be very clear this is the pipe dream is the pipe dream that Darren turns into a shea level player is also a pipe dream. I think it's possible the jazz have veterans that are ahead of the thunder veterans in terms of lorry and jaren the jazz would have to have an ultimate success at both D P turning into shea and a turning into jdup. But that's what the jazz are trying to attain. And then the similarity of we're going to stockpile picks and eventually is a turning into win now assets and for picks is what the jazz are trying to attain the thunder did it best the spurs had other

8:53the luck and drafted the best player of a generation. So the thunder is the best way the jazz can model so that's option one that's the best chance now option to is the Detroit pistons which I actually think had a rather unfortunate rebuild that worked out but also left them fairly devoid of talent and this is the jazz a way that they could rebuild that can get you 60 wins and leave me rather dissatisfied. So we'll talk about that next can the jazz attain 60 wins but not be a title contender that's one option can they be the thunder can they be the Celtics and have kind of a perennial contender for 10 years that they had adjacent to jaren brown will discuss all those options next unlocked on jazz. So this episode is brought to you by fandall and college football Saturdays that you had our one last week but it's back college football is back this weekend and they're already packed with reasons to get excited and this season fandall's giving fans even more ways to get it on every single match up back your favorite team build the same game parlay bet team props or make picks of the biggest games of the weekend.

10:02So this season keep an eye on the fandall app for even more ways to get rewarded with a full slate of college football every single Saturday from now on there are opportunities plenty of them to follow the games and find new ways to get involved whatever your preferred path may be there are so many games happening throughout the day and I like to be able to jump from one match up the next field informed and having fandall gives me more ways to get involved across the entire Saturday instead of just hyper fixating on one singular game so visit fandall.com to get started. This is Jake from Lockdown when the game is on the line the best no way to pass because the right assist can change everything and off the court it's no different that's where your state farm agent comes in whether it's protecting your car your home or helping you prep for the unexpected that helps set you up with a game plan that works for you like a good neighbor state farm is there coverage options are selected by the customer availability eligibility vary by state. Welcome back to lock down jazz leave to lean with you here so thunder that's the pipe dream year in year out contender should be for years and they actually their predicament is such a good one to have that their predicament is wow we have to pay too many great players that would be the jazz pipe dream that you have to decide okay we're already paying potentially kion say do we pay ace a ton do we pay darin a ton that's a great decision to have to make it sucks in the moment but that's a that's a cost of being unbelievably rich.

11:30In terms of assets and the jazz would love to be there now the Detroit pistons won 60 games yet I'm going to say I'd be disappointed in the jazz is current state if we end up kind of like the pistons and here is why. This is the worst case scenario of a rebuild that is successful because they won 60 games on the back of a superstar and I think Cade Cunningham and Darren Peterson could have similar impact that DP could be a top five top 10 player year in year out. That I think Cade Cunningham when healthy is and will be. That's great the jazz draft of their guy it's similar because the pistons were the worst team three of four years and they got a fifth pick three of the four years but they did get Cade Cunningham. They also drafted Jay Nivey who is no longer playing basketball they also drafted Ossar Thompson they drafted Ron Holland but they got Cade Cunningham and Ossar is not a lost cause by any means and Holland's fine too. But when you're the worst team basketball and you're wanting Victor Wimbongam and you're wanting all these different guys and you end up getting guys that are not necessarily the biggest contributors to your own team.

12:38You're going to be disappointed but they got Cade Cunningham and they got Jaylander and to and make of it what you will about Jaylander and he's kind of a he's done really well but in the playoffs he struggled how good is he. Yeah that's the problem they got one superstar a couple promising role players that have very real deficiencies so the jazz are similar in that same boat the jazz were terrible for four years in a row but ended with Cody Williams and Taylor Hendrix who were neither of them are on the team and they were bus. And then you get Ace Bailey verdict still out but I'm optimistic and you go get Darren Peterson. Okay so you've gotten your hopefully your Cade Cunningham and DP and your Ossar Thompson in Ace and Ossar in and Ace could not be any more different but you get the point. Now what do the pistons do really well to get them 60 ones they played harder than anyone else I talked about this with the Grizzlies a couple years ago with Jaren Jackson Jaren Jackson the Grizzlies played harder than everyone else they got to see in their ousted well the the pistons if not for one of the worst quarters ever witnessed and basketball by the Orlando magic could have been eliminated in six games they won in seven and they're routinely bounced by the Cavaliers in the next round so I I just think the pistons are the way you you rely so heavily on the game.

14:03You rely so heavily on one star and it shows how one star can swing basketball I've talked about the Mavericks and and more recently the Lakers in the case of Luca don't she's so good that the Lakers could be good but if eluca gets hurt that team's not that good the jazz should be better than the Lakers and they still might be from a player personnel standpoint. Cade Cunningham Luca don't you're not dissimilar in that there in Peterson's a little different he's not quite as on ball centric as those guys at least not yet but you mean it's a standing success to be Cade Cunningham now where the jazz I think we better than the pistons is that not only do they have Ace coming up they already have Kianta. Kianta scored 24 game last year and I've been critical of Kianta I'll fully admit I'm a little bit skeptical of how real it is how much of it is not empty calorie on a 27 usage rate on a team that was trying to lose I've been skeptical but then again we get to the point of the jazz have three years with Jare and Jackson and Lowry Marken who are all stars in the NBA.

15:07To go alongside of this ascending core the pistons what do they have Duncan Robinson like Lowry is so much better than any player the pistons had other than Cade Cunningham Jaren Jackson I think better than Lowry Marken and I think in year two Darren Peterson's going to be better than both of them some people think he ought to George is better than Ace Bailey at least right now he probably is but some people think he's the better asset down the road and the jazz have both they get a choose so I think a worst case. The very scenario for the jazz is to be like the pistons it have to be like we're going to work our tails off and out rebound out hustle out defend and then have a limited floor. I think the jazz are more similar to those teams that have the offensive flash to end up in substance not just flash but the offensive spark to end up being really really dynamic and very good offensively and then need to just get better and get the pieces to make them better as a whole. Well rounded team if we're going off of recent teams I think the jazz could resemble that of the piston or excuse me the Pacers rather than the pistons now the Pacers didn't rebuild per se they got Tyrie's Haliburton via trade and the rest their team came together see a come came together as a trade package they had some young players on the team that grew with the pat the team I think the jazz could look like that as an offensively well oiled team that was built organically.

16:35With a couple players that are traded for and have been on the team for a bit I'll be lowering Jared then a couple you've drafted DP key on day and ace and that's where you ascend now it took time for the Pacers the Pacers also had a narrow window and of course Haliburton got hurt will see how wide their window is especially now that they didn't get the draft pick that they hope when training for even Kazubak. I do think that the jazz would be a worst case scenario to be a 60 win team and flame out like the pistons did because I don't think the pistons really have an avenue to achieve long term success unless Kade County have becomes the best player in the world the best player in the world and Jerry durin I was thinking baseball I want to share in Durand a bit Red Sox outfielder but Jalen Durin. But Jalen Durin. Becomes one of the best five centers which right now it looks like he's closer to being on his way out from the pistons than he is to being one of these great centers.

17:39I think it's hard for the pistons to achieve long term success I think it's the team that breaks down and it had short-sighted. And they were just unfortunate in the way that the draft lottery fell for them. Now here's a good comment. It says rebuild success will be determined after we see how ace looks this year and DP looks at the end of the second year if both look like stars then it's successful. Absolutely you're absolutely right. But at this point we haven't seen DP play an NBA game and we've only gone off one year of ace and we think he looks good like the overall consensus he's probably going to be a top five player in a really good class. So right now we're looking at teams that the jazz can model after and one of them would be the thunder and that would be the pipe dream but you need ace and DP to be great that one. In the case of the pistons the jazz could have more sustained success whether they turn into those top level superstars or not. But the jazz determination of how good the rebuild is how great the blueprint is that the jazz have followed from the thunder how closely they've adhered to that how you'd rebuild you'd greater rebuild is always going to be dependent on two things.

18:51How great are your stars that you drafted and how well did you do in the playoffs when you made it. So yes we don't know but we're trying to see is there a pathway to contend because the NBA is a copycat league. So who better to copy than Danny Angel on a team that he built so he built this team along with Austin Angel along with Justin Zannick how well do they match up with those Boston Celtics teams with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown will touch on that next on locked on jazz. Welcome back to locked on jazz leave to lean with you here on a live edition of locked on jazz so Danny Angel built a team that had Jalen Brown is the third pick in 2016 Jason Tatum the third pick in 2017 so two thoughts here one. The Celtics made an amazing trade with the nets got these picks ended up with superstars to got lucky with how the lottery shook out they were fortunate but also Danny Angel is very clever in diagnosing doesn't like the way Mark L. Foltz plays everyone thinks it's going to mark a full trade down get Jason Tatum made everything sweeter but what in some they got is two perennial all stars and went at their peak top 10 players in the NBA.

20:12And back to back years at the the premier position at the wing but what they had and why I like this comparison so once again I think it's unlikely Darren Peterson and a spaley are better as a tandem than Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum there was some tug of war between them there was there was some strife there was like always my turn like we got to win and then it's someone had a good year someone had a bad year but realistically that says great of a pairing. That there can be when drafting back to back years and there's no rebuild they're really good so Darren Peterson resembles Jason Tatum in that to me because Jason Tatum came in and they were expected to win because there's also Scott by the name of Kyrie Irving and Kyrie Irving and Al Horford were on the Celtics now is Kyrie far better than Jalen and Lowry yes is Al Horford probably better than both of them yes.

21:12But at least Jalen is close to Horford but my point would be the similarity is that the jazz have drafted two guys in the top five and have traded for two all stars there's the similarity right Kyrie came from the Cavs or for comes over from the Hawks and you're looking at it and you're thinking okay Horford's been a multiple time all star Kyrie is one of the generations best. I'm not a bad guy who has talent and now we have two wings that have been great and they turned out to be great at that point you have aspirations for them to be really awesome and they did so can the jazz emulate that that's the picture I'm painting for you now they had Marcus smart those homegrown okay what Marcus mark to be can't say in this. Okay they they had X player they had Marcus Morris like Marcus Morris could be players the jazz ad the point is Lowry and Jalen are the all stars that have been and they're not as good as Warford and Kyrie and it's unlikely that Darren and Ace turn into Tatum and Brown.

22:24But what I will tell you is this is what the jazz are aiming for and I think the way that this one's measured is can the jazz build organically from within in the way that the Celtics did and become a stronghold in the West the Celtics from day one adjacent Tatum and you're two of Jalen Brown from then on were the favorites in the East I know the Cavs beat them with LeBron. Took seven games in the talent wise the Celtics were better okay then the next year yeah the Raptors won I think people would have taken the Celtics before the season and the next year yeah they heat made a run Celtics probably could have beaten them the Celtics were for 10 years still are but but I mean now they've disrupted the group but the point being for the better part of a decade where the favorite in the Eastern conference because they got these picks right the jazz of the opportunity to do that. By having Darren Peterson turn into a top 10 player in the way that Jason Tatum has Jason Tatum never been my favorite player never will be but what I will say is he's a top seven player for the last seven years when healthy.

23:36As just what it is I think Darren Peterson can be that Jalen Brown love him or hate him how does he fit with Tatum who's better for better or worse he's been a top 15 player top 20 player for the last seven years and in some of those years he's been better than that. Now that's where I think it's hard I think I think there's a world in which Darren Peterson is a top five player and I think there's a world in which he's better than Jason Tatum I really do. That's hard to be because Jason Tatum is a two way superstar went healthy. I think it's hard to have two players on the same timeline one year apart in terms of where they were drafted. One have the belief that okay there's there's two players were both great so it's hard to have great at the first thing two it's hard to have them coexist and three it's hard to have the ability to play offense and defense and have a team that structures around them with veteran players that just works for a extended period of time and that's what the Celtics were able to do yes there was some some tumultuous times in which Oda's Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum do they hate each other.

24:41Did Kyrie Irving bolt out of there and well that was that could have cratered everything but it didn't actually made them better. The jazz can mitigate some of those issues by the fact that early in their careers the hierarchy will be Lowry Jalen D.P. Ace and Keon Te will help ideally help facilitate this. But in time in time your three of D.P. your four of Ace the jazz should be a contender Kyle Collins where it says the jazz coming to title in year three because he thinks D.P. is that good Ace will grow you've got Jalen and Lowry still in the team and still in their all star peak. I agree with him that's the time I think it starts from year three to your six of of Darren Peterson is when the jazz that's their window. If you look at the Celtics that's pretty much what their window was they lost the Warriors could have maybe should have won that. A couple years later they're the best team basketball by far dominated against the Maverick team that overachieved the jazz just need to give themselves enough chances they needed enough chances to draft a Darren Peterson draft an Ace Bailey they need enough chances to be good and continue to perpetually compete against the spurs and the thunder who may kind of be a window that never ever came to the table.

25:52They're the best heroes in the sense that it's really hard in today's CBA to retain all that town so the spurs are going to have to pay three all NBA players Victor and Vinyama might set the largest contract ever. Stefan Castle is going to be an all defense guy and all star and Dylan Harper is better than Castle in my opinion. So they may not be able to keep all those. They are great. They are great. Chats great. J. Dubbs great. J. Dubbs been injured. They're paying all of them a lot. You go do that year and year out and they're a little bit older than these other younger teams. Maybe they age out. Maybe their team craters. But the jazz need to be good enough for long enough to have a chance to win a championship. That's what the Celtics got right. Yes it wasn't perfect but they had two top twenty top 15 players for seven years in a row that they drafted back to back. I don't think Ace is likely to be as good as Jalen Brown. I probably if you look at the odds don't think D.P. is going to be better than Jason Tatum. I think he could be. But what happens is the jazz can keep their team together longer than Celtics did in that rendition where they lost Kyrie Irving.

26:57The jazz can keep Lowry and Jaren for a couple years. And D.P. grows to a top ten player. You've got fringe all stars in those two. Fringe all star and Ace Bailey and the jazz of a chance. This is the comparison I like the most though it's not two wings it would have been different if it was Ace and AJ and it would look far more of a parallel. But I still think this is the method that the jazz adhere closest to. I think the thunder is the pipe dream. I think the Celtics is attainable also they had Gordon Hayward I don't know why that slipped my mind and that maybe is a more comparable thing to then Kyrie Irving. Obviously got injured. Maybe that's more similar to Lowry and Jaren as H.O.F.R. and Gordon as opposed to Kyrie Irving and there but the point is. They were expected to win from day one within a star rookie. And the jazz can do that. The jazz can go and win from day one and grow as a team and they get to define who's going to be the core and it's going to be dependent on is D.P. great enough to be the face of a franchise to lead us to year in your out contention.

28:02Can Jaren and Lowry be good enough in the time where he's growing to get us the experience necessary to have him be grown for when it's his time and how much does Ace come along as option to. I'm very excited as I talked about this I was thinking wow the Utah jazz could be great and I haven't thought that years so we should all be excited. Thank you guys for tuning in to Locked on Jazz always a pleasure chat with you guys with your next tune into locked at NBA. They'll talk about the Clippers what in the world happened with a quiet Leonard Steve Balmer all that drama they'll talk with the latest rumors some trades some signings their predictions all that stuff on locked on NBA. Thanks for tuning into locked on jazz sincerely appreciate it and as always go jazz. Thank you for making locked on your first listen every day for your second listen find the locked on NBA podcast where there's no off season.

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