Big savings for consumers after RBA move + the hunt for Dezi Freeman

0:00A Listener Production Hi, Natasha Belling with you and welcome to the afternoon edition of The Briefing. Coming up in our deep dive, a conversation about the fugitive Dezi Freeman, who was yesterday shot dead by police in rural Victoria. He came out, brandishing a pistol which we now know to be one of taken from our murder officer on the 26th of August, pointed at our officers and took away any discretion our officers then had for a peaceful conclusion. That's coming up in just a moment, but first let's check the afternoon headlines this Tuesday, the 31st of March. We start with major news for consumers. The Reserve Bank has announced reforms that will see surge charges removed from credit cards, debit cards and card networks, including F-Post, Mastercard and Visa. The RBA says the move will save customers around $1.6 billion

1:02a year in surcharge fees. Businesses could also save as much as $200 million a year. The changes won't affect American Express. Federal Treasury Jim Charmers says the cuts to surchargers are long overdue. We've made it really clear for some time now that people shouldn't be punished for using a credit or a debit card. Australians should be able to use debit and credit cards without being penalised and that's what this change will help deliver. As Australians move away from using currency, cashless payments make up about three quarters of all transactions. Caps on fees for foreign card payments will also be introduced. The changes come into effect from October. Jackie Henderson has filed legal action against her former employer ARN Media. In a statement to the ASX, ARN Media confirmed Ms Henderson had commenced legal action over her contract termination and the end of the Carl and Jackie O's show on QCFM.

2:04She is claiming at least $82 million in compensation. It comes just days after her former co-host Carl Sandelands began his legal challenge against ARN arguing his termination was invalid. He's seeking $88 million. According to ARN's statement, the applicant's claim that the termination of Ms Henderson's contract constituted adverse action. It also confirmed Ms Henderson sent a complaint later to CBC, ARN's parent company, which noted she, quote, cannot continue to work with Mr Carl Sandelands and made psychosocial health and safety and bullying complaints in relation to the conduct of Mr Carl Sandelands on and prior to the 20th February, 2026. More news out of the Middle East this afternoon and the US has dropped bunker buster bombs on an Iranian munitions depot in the city of Isfahan. Donald Trump has posted video of the attack

3:07and our Jazeera described it as a column of fire. Iran earlier denied President Trump's claims that Washington and Tehran are engaged in talks. As spokesperson for the Iranian Ministry of Foreign Affairs posted on X, quote, we have had no negotiations with America in these 31 days. President Trump has said repeatedly and as early as this morning that Iran is close to agreeing to a 15 point peace plan issued by the White House. Meantime, the price of oil has hit a new high with US crude oil settling above $100 per barrel for the first time since July 2022. And big news on the music front, Selene Dionne has announced her return to performing. She hasn't performed since 2020 when her tour was canceled because of COVID and she also continued to battle health issues, including stiff person syndrome. In a video posted on her 58th birthday

4:08earlier today, she says her condition has now improved and she will perform a number of shows in Paris starting in September. This year, I'm getting the best gift of my life. I'm getting the chance to see you to perform for you once again. We last saw Selene sing on top of the Eiffel Tower for the Paris 2024 Olympic Games opening ceremony. Now it's time to get into our deep dive with Dr Vincent Hurley, a criminologist from Macquarie University on Desi Freeman. His life on the run, the operation to find him and yesterday's police operation. And if anyone else was involved in helping him remain at large for more than six months, here he is, Victoria's Chief Police Commissioner Mike Bush. That's for some, a team will be focusing on who actually was complicit and aided this person to get where they were and avoid us for seven months. So those people will be

5:10found and held to account. Vincent, you're a former police negotiator. You've got an excellent insight into what may have happened with Desi Freeman. If I can start by asking you, who was Desi Freeman and how dangerous was he? Desi Freeman was a person that was saturating with the political ideology that is a right wing extremist that most people like you and I and people listening will have little to no knowledge of. They are living on the fringes of society where their reality, they're living in a parallel universe that we just cannot understand or comprehend. And they are so few, but they are the most dangerous people in society because the perspective of the world is that the government in which we live in, the way that we adhere to the law, the rules of the road even, that they are against anything to do with social order or control. And again, for the ordinary person on the street like us and the listeners,

6:12it is something that is just out there. How can it be that these individuals exist in society, parallel to 99% of people in society who do the right thing, who follow the laws? I may not always agree with whatever the politicians do or whatever the courts do or whatever the police do, but these individuals just do not agree, full stop with anything. So that is Desi Freeman is living in a parallel universe. So in regards to what happened in regional Victoria events, if you can take us through what would have unfolded because considering your experience, considering you certainly an extreme as to identified as a sovereign citizen, there was no way that he was going to give himself over to police. Now, no way, it was always going to end in tears. And I don't say that now because we know the outcome, they are the most difficult people to negotiate with because they cannot give them anything that's tangible. And what I mean by that is that even before the police went in to negotiate with him, they would have known that he would

7:16have had demands or maybe not even demands that he would have had a particular thought in mind that he was going to go down in a blaze of glory because if he didn't, that would be the worst possible scenario of humiliation upon himself given his life, you know, really against society. So with Desi Freeman, you can't give him what he wants. He wants to change the system. He wants to change the police, the government because he doesn't believe in it. So he can't give him anything tangible. So the police going into this would already know that they would have built a psychological profile of him throughout his life as best as they could tell. And what they would be doing would be trying to find something in his lifestyle or in his posts or some of the people that knew him that might give an indication of a weakness in his argument or his thought. Now that is highly unlikely because he is so wedded to the idea or the ideology. So if the police on the negotiators could find something that they could use that sort of leverage to try and get him out.

8:19So they would have had this plan in mind for weeks. The police would have come across him and they would not have immediately gone in to arrest him. And the reason for that is they would want to try and assess if he still had firearms, but more importantly the caliber of the firearm and its capacity. So the police would have to be at a reasonable distance or way or holding behind an object that that firearm or the caliber could not penetrate. They would want to know if there was anyone else there with him and helping you, they would want to know his daily routine, but they'd also want to know his physical and mental state. And that's important because as a negotiator, when the police were trying to get him out on assuming they were trying to get him out, you say as a negotiator, I want you to come out, put your hands up and kneel on the ground without dropping your hands. And then you would say, I would say repeat that back to me. And if you can repeat that back to me in really simple clear terms, I know that you had the cognitive ability or awareness that you are not mentally

9:25fatigued, that you can follow basic instructions. Because if you cannot understand what I'm saying to you, that could be a miscommunication between the person, the hostage taker and the police. And it could unintentionally to a shooting. So assessing his physical ability as well as his mental ability would have been done in the days up to the hour or the minutes before they actually went and tried to get him out. So they would have told him as a former negotiator that you're surrounded. There's no way you could get out. And the police would be really mindful of that because he's already done it once, even our slightly different circumstances. So the police wouldn't want to run that risk again, that you are under arrest for the murder of those two police officers. And that the only way out of this would be to give yourself up. But it was going to end in tears. He was, he was never going to do that. So Vincent, in regards to there are allegations,

10:26authorities received a tip off. Where do you think that may have come from? Because it's quite interesting, you know, he was on the run for more than six months. There'd been a couple of possible sightings. But then all of a sudden, this massive breakthrough, a couple of days ago, authorities received a tip off. Is that quite unusual? You surprised that he was alive? I think that he was a couple of kilometers, 100 kilometers away from the shooting. So to me, the fact that he was so far away and someone saw him would be like the planet's aligned, for example, that it would create a situation where, well, here we have this individual, whose name or picture is plastered across Australia, saturated the media, certainly for the first three months. And this random individual, well, we're assuming it's a random individual, has seen him and gone, oh my God, that's that's Freeman. And then called the police. It would be interesting to find out if that tip off, if that person had knowledge that he was going to be there and then

11:30claim the part of the million dollar reward. And that is something that you won't know until after the current inquiry, or if at all, because when they hand out rewards, what the government hand out rewards, they do it fairly, what's the word? Just greatly, don't they? Yeah, just greatly. Yeah. But if it was a criminal trial, that money would not go to the individual until after the criminal trial. Because if someone giving a reward, they're going to open themselves up to criticism, well, you only did this because in a criminal trial, you know, for organized crime, you only doing this because you want the money. That's the motive. You're giving false evidence. But in this case, now that he's already dead, it will still be interesting to see whether they claimed some or even the pilot that reward. But what is really interesting about the terminology of the reward, and I'd have to go back and have a look at the press release, is that sometimes it says, for information leading to the arrest, or leading to the conviction. So, words matter. The fine print literally, when I talk about reward,

12:37actually does matter. So Vince, do you think he was helped at all? We know that he has been on the run for more than six months. We know, I think the Victoria Police Commissioner said it was one of the most comprehensive investigations ever done by the state police authorities. He managed to still be on the run for more than six months. Do you think people were helping him? Look, I don't think so initially. And the reason I say that is that the police turned up and having executed hundreds of search records, you turn up under now. So he could not expect the police. So the police have arrived. He's gone, whoa, he's murdered the police and he shot off into the bush. So he could not have had time, and he didn't know that, or to prepare, or get help at all. And I would suspect that for the first, by the six or eight weeks, until the police ran down the investigation, the area would have been saturated with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of police. So no one in the community, in a reasonable person, the community would have any sympathy for him,

13:38regardless whether they'll police or not with other victims. So I don't think so initially. Then the argument or the thought comes to mind, well, if you didn't have help then, and just say for example, he had a mobile phone, that certainly would have died within the first three or four days. Then how could he have got assistance? I tend to think, and wouldn't it be really no, the answer or the police might know, I tend to think not, and it might be a bit of a long bow to jaw, but people run marathons and ultra marathons. And whilst they have a lot of food and a lot of training, there's nothing to say that he didn't have, as a prepper, as I understand it, that he didn't have a bit of stash of food. So that could have sustained him longer than, well, what normally would have expected. There's nothing to say that he didn't break into, or go to other houses, outhouses, tron, and you know, scavenge for food. There's nothing to say that he didn't kill a rabbit, because he was apparently good with the bush. There's nothing to say that he didn't need berries or all things like that, which is not really that uncommon.

14:39But what is behind that, I think, is really interesting, is that when you see this all the time with the ADF and, you know, elite soldiers all around the world, is that mental capacity to push them beyond the physical limits of what they would normally do. And that mental capacity is driven by his political ideology, because his political ideology is him. There is no separating the two. So he would be giving the middle finger to the authorities, and would say, well, I've outlasted you. I'm going to keep doing this until such time as this is shoot out. So do I think, coming back to your original question here, had help? I don't think so, but I'll be entering to find out what, you know, the current inquiry reveals. Vince, considering what we now know about Desi Freeman, he managed to survive more than six months in the bushland in regional Victoria. What are your thoughts on Julian Ingram? Now he allegedly killed three people in rural New South Wales near Lake Cajelico earlier this year, and allegedly seriously injuring another

15:46person. He's been missing for many months now. Do you believe he could still be alive? Yeah, I do. I have having members in the family who are rural producers in central western New South Wales. I know for a fact that they carry, my brother carries, no, 10, 20 litres of water in the back of his car. So when Ingram left, according to the police, he well left in a white cell. So I would suspect that he would have had water, at least water, or possibly even food in there. Another thing is that he could have easily used the mud out there to cover the glass windscreens and the tires and the rims to stop any reflection. He could have torn the lining off the roof, which is this is what they do. Pull the lining off the roof and the seat covers are going to cover the car or to cover the windscrew to reduce reflection. Now he could have used trees and branches to cover it, but of course, that's what they're going to die in contrast to

16:48the other surrounding vegetation would still be green. So the police would be looking out for that, and the police would have aerial surveillance out there since it started. Whether or how he's actually got rid of the car, it would be really interesting. I don't know how you're acting hired or you'd out there. He may have actually gone to someone he knows who initially may not have known what he'd done. And then given him a car, you got to lie to them, which is not uncommon in the criminal underworld. So that could have aided him to get away from that specific area, but it would have taken a little while for the police to get there, wanted a bit of praise act together to get surveillance up. And the same with going back to Desi Freeman, who went into the bush, he had a little bit of head style on the police, and then by the time they got all the police from Melbourne up there, it takes a long time to toward putting primators in a massive geographic area and where do you start? Vince, thanks so much for joining us. It's important to note there's been a lot of focus over

17:50the last couple of days on Desi Freeman, but we need to be mindful that we are all thinking of the family and friends of those two police officers who were shot dead by Desi Freeman. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. That was Dr Vincent Hurley, a criminologist from Aquari University. And that's it for this episode of the afternoon edition of The Briefing. We'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning with a deep dive on the surprising decline in veganism. And we'd love you to subscribe or follow us on Instagram at The Briefing Podcast. I'm Natasha Belling, thanks for your company.