AEW All In London Data & Analysis | Pollock & Thurston

0:00Brandon first in from Russ dynamics is up next and we're going to follow Brandon with John Pollock from Postrept 1 Delivering on the returns increasing our margins Brady's go down the toilet if I'm out here All I do is simply put the map in my favor We agree that Brandon and John do good work The reason is simple wrestling economics And told the Netflix numbers I've been told the metrics a little bit Prey 5 different times I still won't get it There were respectable wrestling journalists who needed answers Thank you very much members of the media. I hope you all got a help How about we pop a number right here right now? I hope part of the show them it is John Pollock joining you for a special edition of Pollock and Thurston he is going to join us. I'm here. How are you Brandon? I'm good. I just hit refresh just to be safe

1:03So we have no lagging issues. How's the weather in Toronto? Oh my goodness. We got annihilated on Wednesday This was one of the biggest storm disasters I can recall ever living through here in Toronto I'm talking floods all over the city cars submerged There is the biggest tree you can imagine at way down the end of my street that has fallen That has shut down the road. It's just it's like a tornado just went through Toronto That's how the weather is here in Toronto. How did you guys fare in this whole thing? Well here in Buffalo there is currently a flash flood warning. Currently a flash flood warning I know we did get a comment a few weeks ago I think when I was complaining and laboriously aching over my various home ownership issues I do want to make clear as a preface here first that yes I did get a home inspection

2:09The problem was it was a home inspection like in January so there was snow on the roof and anyway we continued to have roof issues And I think if you get it right now it's pouring rain right now. You can see the program for the June 8th 1990 But also there's around the small screen. I'll show it again in a minute. But there's a leak right here Like right here where the microphone is and there it is. Now you can see it. For people watching video for people only listening in audio just imagine a grey smudge on my ceiling that's dripping water right onto the desk Are you going to be okay with today? I don't know probably These are not the leaks that people tune into the show for but we're bringing you we're bringing you a live interactive experience here on the thirst and household. My hands leaking. Well I hope things are okay. Yeah it's been a I'm glad I flew home Tuesday and not Wednesday. I think I would still be in England had my flight been scheduled on Wednesday.

3:17I do not think I would have been I think air candidate would have been tapping out and not making not not bringing me home. Yeah, I don't know. I got the alert on my phone just like a half hour ago saying this is a life and death emergency. Do not travel and then there's like a neighbor party happening right now in my neighborhood where like we're the new neighbors in the area. So we just met a bunch of neighbors just now but we did walk there. A couple houses down. But yeah. They didn't reschedule the party. They were like no rain or shine. It literally said it rain or shine and they are they are holding it indoors. In fact, okay. Well, they it takes a lot for Buffalo to shut down. Okay. They're going to go about their business. I think. Yeah. I think we are all nice very nice people. We are I think the it's not the youngest one of the youngest homeowners in this neighborhood. Got on just just at the wire. I think what got hit harder this week Toronto slash Buffalo or Steve Balmer of the LA Clippers.

4:22Have you have you seen Steve Balmer thing I had to make sure this was the same Steve Balmer Steve Balmer thing where he's walking around in the 90s and he's doing like the town hall with all the Microsoft employees and he's talking about the developers. The developers. The developers. The developers. The developers. The developers. I love that. Yeah. Well, but he's in some trouble. He's not a lot of trouble. I mean he cannot. This is the man who helped design the Intuit dome like his building. He cannot go. He can't go. I mean, it's like he. He cannot go to his own arena for a year. He can't go to the games. Okay. He can't go to the games. If there's an office there. I don't think you can go to the office like he's pretty much. He's got a year suspension. He has a 30 million dollar fine. And the big kicker is five draft picks that the Clippers are going to lose in the ensuing years that this is whole. My goodness. Look at this guy. He just got caught in the Toronto Rainstorm as well. This was him reading that a 36 page report from the NBA when he saw the five.

5:28I thought the NBA said there's no problems here. Everything is fine. Yes, he has been reported it. If the NBA is not something they're the leader in sports. That's what their motto is, right? He has fines is not looking great after this three weeks ago. They had you know three of their like major reporters came out stating that the NBA through sources. They believe the NBA has found no wrongdoing on behalf of the Clippers and Pobletoora had to absorb all these bullets from people. What is this guy? No, he's not a real journalist. I heard they were taking some bolts from puck. Puck news. That's right. Dude, there were a lot of people like taking fire at Pobletoora. And if you want to get inside the weeds on this, Pobletoora is now doing the media round since he has a like his reporting has more than stood up for itself over the last 24 hours stated that after that report. They were ESPN reached out to Pablo and said, Hey, because this is your reporting, we will take a statement from you if you want.

6:29And so Pobletoora gave the statement that he stood by his reporting. We're going to continue to investigate. They did not include the statement. And you know, Pobletoora was basically stating. They gave them a comment and they didn't put the comment in story. And it was after they have reported it. This would have, I guess, been a follow-up story. This is ESPN. This is ESPN. I, you know, I wait to hear. Was this our boy, Shams? No, Shams was not involved with this. This was Don Van Natta, Ramona Shelburn. And there was a third report. These are like big time reporters at ESPN. And I, I await to hear their response. But I mean, from the Pablo side was that they basically ran with a like a clippers weighted set of sources and got down that. So anonymous anonymous sources wouldn't you know it? Yes. So there's no name to attach to this. No, it's just the reporters that are left holding the the bag here at the end of the day.

7:31Did decide or at least the editors did decide to run it. So a very, it's a very interesting case. Just of modern journalism. And in the sense of a, a Pobletoora here who did, I mean, has done really extensive work on this. And the end result is like one of the most significant punishments in NBA history when it comes to, you know, Cap Sir convention. And this was hardly just a slap on the wrist. And how does Toronto fit in? We get co-ilinered. The guy who gets a $700,000 fine at the end of this. I mean, he really doesn't come out of this all that, that harmed. But that is the value folks of a collective bargaining agreement that really does insulate players from massive issues here. So 700 grand. He's going to Toronto. Colleys going to be just fine. But the clippers dude, this is like they're toast for the duration of this period. They're going to have no leverage with free agents. They have no picks. Like this is like, they have to sacrifice five first round graphics.

8:39Yeah. And it doesn't even take effect till like, I can't remember the exact seasons. But man, they're spread out. And this is just going to be a terrible time to be a clippers fan terrible. And even worse to be clippers management to try and simply, you know, spin this as anything. But utter, utter failure. And this asker of its management. I was an executive. I was diving into the story. There was one of the executives who was taking contemporaneous notes as this was all going on. An executive for who the clippers, the clippers. Okay. Like it's detailing like what is above board? What is clearly not above board? So they had like some men's ran. Oh my God, man, it's just like the the showers of justice could not have fallen upon public or a metal, like media more where I mean these clippers, I mean, as Charles Barkley said today, they don't do cheating really well. The clippers know they don't.

9:39That's that's my thoughts on on that story. All in London took place this past Sunday at Wembley Stadium. You did. Neil Flanagan did not make it to London, England. So I was a I was not alone, but you know, you would be surprised, Brandon, like very, very few North American outlets represented this would I would guess 80 to 85% on North American, primarily European based media. Do you think that had an impact on the distribution of chance that took place in the press conference? I don't want to cast dispersions, but I would think that there were there were a lot of people in that press conference that were very excited that the new level have debuted in AW. I only wish I only wish that there had been a camera on all of them. And if you could have seen me just like a fish out of water. I heard that you snubbed what what do we call savior woods now Austin Creed.

10:45So he walked he walked and just respected him. He was reaching out to like he's partying with everyone and going to fist bump. And I just I'm like, no, I'm not I'm not participating in any of this. I was just like what what am I doing here? But uh, that was that was the press conference. Did you did you catch any of the press conference afterward? You were brought up in the press conference. I was brought up in the press. I did not see any of the press conference. I am aware of things that were said, but I did not. I'm aware of chance that were chanted, but I did not watch it myself. I didn't know what I did. I want you to tell me how I was mentioned in the press conference. That's important. But I did watch the last two matches in the background today while I was doing some coding work. Oh, well, that's really going to ruin your reputation. But there I ask what you thought of the two championship matches. I don't have thoughts about wrestling matches. It's, you know, it's like you inject me with no vacay and then you say what I just don't I'm sure that this is not an advantageous not a critique of anything.

11:47It's just I don't I'm not emotionally invested in wrestling matches these days. That'll be sure they were great and that apparently this is a really well received show. Yeah, let's look at some of these these now before we get into attendance turnstiles. I'm not how I mentioned the press conference. I've got the clip. We'll get to it. But this event as a whole has a 9.50 rating on cage match. Very, very strong. So that would be the fourth highest rated event in AEW history on cage match behind the Brody Lee tribute spring breakthrough from last year in Boston and this year's double or nothing in terms of the only three events that have a higher rating. Kenny Omega and Will Ospreay a 9.66 rating on cage match, which would make it the third highest in AEW history and the 20th highest rated match of all time, which also brings Kenny Omega. The owner of eight of the top 20 matches of all time on cage match and six of the top 10. So quite the the catalog for Kenny Omega that this matches generally been praised unanimously, except for Eric Bischoff.

12:58He is the one to center that I will. Rick Flare Rick Flare said this is the Pacific Ocean over here and that's the Mississippi River until he's doing so. Kenny and Will do do 60 minutes 275 million times. Nobody has more respect for them than me, but. Maybe maybe Rick Flare doesn't think as little of the Mississippi River as others are asserting that to be an insult maybe maybe he has a fine respect for that body of water. Is he backtracking? Is he saying that? He literally wrote tonight don't put me in the same category as Eric Bischoff. I love their match. I see. I see. It's of course the all caps every word with caps to begin. So needless to say, this was a really, really well received show by many in particular those last two matches. The final Russell ticks number was listed at 46,987.

13:59So Brandon, why don't you give us some comparison points and I do want to know how the reunion was after a year off of you connecting with the Brent council had they had they missed you or their pleasantries exchanged please tell us what came out of your nearly annual interactions with our favorite council members in England. So this was according to Russell ticks right. We're going to round here for for the sake of audio 47,000 just under 47,000 tickets distributed compare that to the most recent Wembley AW show 54,000. So that's what this is a two plus four six six thousand short of that of course it's well short of the what Russell ticks actually estimates 83,000 and AW for this 23 announcing 81,000 paid. So anyway, this is one of the biggest shows of the year in terms of attendance, whatever we're calling attendance at the moment.

15:00But you know, it's I believe just behind the two nights of WrestleMania it's almost exactly the same as what New Japan has announced for the ton of hospital retirement Russell Kingdom. This is ahead of each of the two nights of summer slam of course you could combine that and say well 60 some op. Okay, I could say that and so it's this is just six million dollars. I think you got out of Tony somewhere in the range somewhere close in the ballpark of six million dollars at the gate. W did that for John C. Inz retirement in arena. But that's among the highest gates. I'm sure what would be higher than that maybe this this 2024 event certainly the $10 million for all in 2023. I'm sure this is number three in terms of gate. Yeah, like I can't imagine there's it that's like certainly last year's tax show did not do a six million dollar gate. So I like third biggest of all time. And I guess depending on you know, I think mainly everybody looked at the 2024 show as the realistic comparison point of what it was shooting for and you know coming up slightly below 2024 numbers is where this one settled in at September on the post wrestling cafe.

16:16We're going to be presenting two editions of rewind away as we go back to February of 1997 to review the in your house final four paper view. Then we're coming back to chat the slammy awards of 1996 plus this month there's several big shows and we will have reviews of triple mania both nights from Las Vegas and from Mexico City plus it's CMLL's 90 third anniversary with John Pollock running down that card. Plus UFC 331 new Japan's destruction and Kobe book club and so much more including the XL versions of rewind a raw dynamite and Smackdown join now at post wrestling cafe dot com. Yeah, so I emailed my friends the Brent Council. And you know so much of this is marred. Mar you know journalism you try to do a good job and so much smart by by stupidity and tribalism. I didn't envy you on Tuesday when you when we didn't envy you when I said ready to run this. So the as we know the turns what's the turn style council where there is no one.

17:21And I tend to not a monolith there's estimate tickets distributed rustic is always analyzing the ticket maps to figure out how many tickets have just been distributed mostly that sold but some some cops to. And what we have to is you know and when AW announced in twenty twenty three at all and eighty one thousand thirty one I think the number is something close to that that's the number of tickets sold that they're claiming. And then there's the number of tickets that actually get used right select maybe half the cops don't show maybe just some of the paid tickets don't show. And as we know there's seventy so eighty one thousand whatever for all in twenty twenty three well seventy two thousand two hundred and sixty five tickets were actually used right and we got this again for twenty twenty four. So we pulled the article here while I'm while I'm a filibustering so I did call the the Brent council this is the local burrow of Brent. I we did experiment with the idea of you going in person to the Brent council room but it's not not not not necessary so I did email them there was a giant fire around Wembley so I didn't know if like the Brent council would be impacted by this it shut down like several of the the subway lines and such and you had

18:35every wrestling fan seeing a massive fire near Wembley and thinking what is this mean for AW. So so I did email them ahead of time and I said hey remember me I'm I'm paraphrasing remember me we're going to so and really what happened in the first place is I'm not the one who like reached out to them in twenty twenty three but but somebody else is like you know kind of trolling on a W being like look you got to get this number there's public records of quests and so forth. It might be something fast between me and Mr Russell tics but but anyway I emailed them ahead of time and said do I need to do records of quest here because in in twenty twenty four you didn't respond to a records of quests you just be the council the government agency just gave us the number and they basically said yeah so bank holiday understand there's a bank holiday on Monday so I said all right I'll email you the next day and I did and they provided the number the number the turns the number of tickets used is forty one thousand one hundred and two.

19:37Why do we report this number just just to be mean to AW well no it's an independent and actually verifiable and apparently real number that they that they get they say they get this you know the public safety officials in the area get this I guess they ought to respond to emergencies if there's an emergency and this is a real number now Russell tics is great and Russell tics is an estimate based on the ticket map so it's not exactly correct and all likelihood but this is an independent number that we can use to verify it and if anything this tells us that Russell tics does a pretty good job because this is all you know the the turn style number is about eighty six eighty seven percent of the the Russell tics estimate in each of these wembley years so that's that should be a reassuring story or really three reassuring stories together to tell one story that Russell tics is doing at least they consistent job yeah this is it and it's a it's a it's a it was a show success. This show is definitely a success I think any time that you are doing a six million dollar gate and you're putting forty thousand plus people into into a venue I would classify that as certainly a success for I think in a financial sense it's almost impossible I think for a

20:46pay-per-view for an A to B pay-per-view not to be a success on a as a standalone event and in any reasonable way of accounting for I'm sure this show cost millions to put on I've seen the entrances and stuff I think the music might have cost millions of all that they licensed so I'm sure that they say you know this this show might have caught let's say it costs more than the than the game let's say it costs eight million dollars to put on which I don't think is unreasonable well they made six million dollars in ticket sales and though we're not even going to talk about money they they made you know if they sold let's say let's say they did really bad on paper be even though Tony says that they sold the most they've ever sold on the HVMX let's say they did just a hundred thousand paper be buys at up at an average price of 50 I know that that it's 40 on HVMX let's make math simple you know it's it's what is that what's a hundred thousand times 50 that's like five million I think if my math is right so you know and half of that gets split with the carrier let's say and that you're still you know like eight point five at that point so yes in terms of financial success I think like every A to B pay-per-view is a financial success when you just say this is the

21:54revenue that's immediately tied to this one on a mat yeah so yeah I think it's this was a really well received show and it was a sort of coronation of osprey and I think this is more writing that's a narrative of goodwill with with wrestling fans. Let's hear from Tony Khan this was my question about the gate and the attendance and what he was able to share with us about those particular numbers. And if you want to share the attendance and gate that would be great if you have. And I know the gate is I'm going to say in the in the vicinity it's like probably about a six million dollar gate and I don't know the exact number but it would be close to 50,000 and I am very proud of that it was to us it felt like it was very very similar to the show two years ago which was an incredible accomplishment and one of the most successful wrestling events ever and to come back and have this we're all very proud of it and the quality of the show was most importantly something that I believe people would want to come back and see

22:56A W again and all the fans that bought the pay-per-view it's our biggest pay-per-view ever on HBO Max I don't have the exact numbers yet but I know before it even it started they were saying this was your best show ever you the numbers are through the and the trends were through the roof and we've been planning this way for quite a while and it's just been such a fantastic year we've had great viewership as I was saying I know you and Brandon study the numbers very closely and spend a lot of time looking at this and the AEW television is having a fantastic year the viewership of AEW dynamite and AEW collision are both up double digit percentages and as I said to reiterate this past Wednesday was the most watched episode on TBS alone in over two years and again that time two years ago we didn't have our streaming audience yet so I think we've continued to build and right now has been such an exciting time All right so there you go that was a part of Tony cons answer indicating the gate around $6 million and

23:57stating that the HBO Max number that he stated would be their biggest HBO Max only started distributing the pay-per-views with all out last September which was the show So this is the first all in yes which we believe has been their most bought pay-per-view most years right yeah I would you know suffice to say that it has certainly become you know the big show of the year that AEW has built everything around and just just a fact check in real quick on the ratings comment he's right that at least in q3 to date which were now two thirds the way through q3 so it's not like we're only a couple weeks or two more than halfway through and dynamite in total viewership the demo is like just falling apart for everybody but in terms of total viewership p2 plus people at age 2 and over dynamite is up 16% collision is up 36% that's with with preemptions excluded so dynamite is up and I who knows yeah I don't know how many people are watching on max of course but that's just traditional TV

25:04and it's worth noting that this past Monday were the latest adjustments that nielsen was introducing I don't think we've gotten any numbers yet NXT would be the first example of that that at least not the Sunday NXT that's probably whatever happens on Monday probably starts yeah yes that's right so I mean in just in conclusion here I think this is you know looks to be the number three show of all time for AEW I don't know how solid of a pay per view number we will get but certainly you know if this is one that even flirts around the 200,000 by number I think that like that would be on on the higher end I don't think anyone was predicting this would be the all time number for AEW you but coming out of it I mean this felt like a very important historically significant show for AEW and the open ended questions are how Tony looks at this bank holiday that he seems to really like running in London whether it be a return to Wembley running the 0 2 and we do know that they're going to go back there in February for the

26:12dynasty pay per view that they're moving up a few months to February which will take place in Liverpool followed by a dynamite at the O2 arena in London next February as well. Yeah I mean a lot of their shows that are that are the high attendance is in that chart I just had up I'll put up again are in the UK so we've gotten the screen here are the top 10 attendances based on Russell takes numbers for EW history and it's London London London Arlington Texas New York City Arthur Ash which is the US opens happening right now actually and then there is there's a number six is also London so I mean so that's what you could say was that four of the top six attendances are London. Also making their arrival at AEW on Sunday was the new level the former new day of Kofi just Kofi and Austin Creed and after they did

27:17appear at the press conference they went on the media circuit afterward and one of their stops was on the aerial how many show and they did discuss getting at least a bit more specific about the report of WWE asking them to take a pay cut and just how much of a pay cut ask you follow bluntly it was reported that you were asked to take a 50% pay cut and that they kind of wanted to wind things down and you do community stuff in addition to some appearances is that all accurate. I don't know exactly what's out there. That's what's out there. Yeah I will say it was more than 50% more than lots of people don't know. Wow. So but even so like I said like the like the compensation is a big part of it for sure but again the bigger part of it is being able to like go out and live your dream and the way that you want to live it out and be appreciated for it you know.

28:17So yeah we took it all into consideration and we knew that this was the only path to take. Yes so not all monetary but I would say monetary was a big deciding factor as you sure they have like several stuff holes. Yeah and it's just like it is just the reality of the like the power structure that is going to exist between wrestling promotions and talent and yes this is exercise to a much stronger degree in these WWE examples but this is not a case of you the talent that can just. You know in year one of a five year contract come and want to rip up the contract and make up new terms that are more favorable to you but on the other end that is exactly what the company can do and they have no obligation to pay you beyond 90 day cycles and that is what your contract is and.

29:19It has been established now just for talent that listen you may sign a great contract for WWE it is not a guarantee you will see the end of that contract or at least not to the end of that contract at the value that it is presented unless you are among that that class of performers that they are not going to. You know affect your pay or cut you for instance if you are in the protected class. It is kind of a one sided contract with the rolling 90 day period I guess I think there is at least three things going on. I think you guys talked about the other night that you know these were contracts that were allowed to expire they couldn't come or were they. They couldn't come to terms obviously you know they wanted that W wanted new day new level to take a pre drastic pay cut. Do we know whether this was just expiration or this was like just release me that. My belief is that they had like years left on these deals but I would have to double check that.

30:20But let's for the sake of argument that if if their deals were just coming up I think like that that's one thing and I mean that is something we have seen no at AEWs like when a contract is coming to I think any promoter has the ability to say hey listen we're not going to be signing a new contract like that is to me that that that's fair you're not necessarily owed just a contract renewal every time. But I you can argue as much as you want about the fairness of it all but fairness is not part of this equation this is something that for many talents in WWE that if you have a million dollar downside and they're coming to you and say hey we want to cut your contract in half and you can either leave and if your options are leaving and like maybe there's a spot for me in AEW but maybe not it's like 500 thousand dollars is still better than my alternative that you're presented. And that's that's the power balance and there are going to be talents that are going to accept that and it's it's another I mean it also is telling you the performer that you are expendable like if TKO is coming to you and presenting this to you they are not coming at it with a fear of you rejecting this offer and leaving the company so right there they are also telling you what what their value they see in you is if they are presenting this to you.

31:48I guess from the perspective you know they had a new day had. But the legendary run in their company I'm sure there will be you know W Hall famous when when they to be in the past or something for them and. They hit they were on television consistently for. What 2014 on or more than 10 years they were a lot of a coffee like almost 20 years he's been on television but the new day itself like right over 10. I think as you have more wrestlers who are having long careers you get what you get is you know I think both of these rosters have just a ton of wrestlers on them and it's not like the number of hours of flagship. Content are growing that much right W's doing like five depending on the week AEW is doing you know foreign change and you know it's not like there's more spots opening up but there's more wrestlers and more wrestlers are going to last longer you know in a way it's a good thing because people's their health is better. And maybe they're not wrestling as much and I think that's going to be the case even even more now we're kind of in the era now where like most of the wrestlers on you know a lot of the wrestlers on the on the W Ross or you know you to be roster that matter have had careers where they did wrestle you know over a hundred times a year.

33:00And now almost nobody's going to make that many matches in any year outside the Indies unless they're really hosting on the Indies. So I think wrestlers are going to have longer careers you have more talent just piling up and I would suggest you know what these huge pay cut offers are partly about is you know what's the value if I don't see you know if I'm going to be and I don't see a great creative opportunity to get more of new day than I already have the last 12 years what's it worth it to me to keep them around what's worth it to me to keep them around just keep them from doing this going to AEW there's a defensive value in keeping them well how much is worth to me just. Just to hold them them back and put them to work sometimes I'm sure well maybe it's worth half their contract and but if they leave old is maybe it makes the PR store it makes the fan story easier to say you know well we couldn't come to terms on ideal at least that's maybe you can spend a second can come to terms on it deal to avoid fighting another our true situation. Do you think that that sort of mindset toward talent leaving and and going to another company exists to the same degree it did in 2019 where we were hearing all these stories about talent getting these incredible increases on their deals for that very reason they did not want talent going over there and now is it more.

34:18There's another bitter there's another bitter for your house rather than one. So you're gonna have to but it's like to me there are only so many Cody Rhodes or CM punks that are truly going to mean something to jump over and are they necessarily concerned about a new day like going over there yeah there's going to be good will for the new day going to AEW but is it all trick critical that they do not go to AEW whereas in 2019 I think they had a really big concern of. About any of their name talent going to the competitor to legitimize them or do you feel like it's it's the same thinking as it has been since AEW open. I guess we're talking about like it's 2019 and letting moxley go not even a moxley but like we heard the stories are like gallows and Anderson getting these huge offers to stay in WWE it's like I just don't know if that those kinds of talents are getting big raises to stay away from AEW today whereas. Now it's okay they can go there and how many real difference makers are there that we just do not want AEW to have or even vice versa for AEW of you know they have lost talent that has gone back there but they have they have not been harmed by certain talents going it's it's a very very select few I think that are going to really harm you by losing and are going to help your competitor.

35:42I think it's hard to analyze without knowing the real numbers of the compensation amounts but I think the EW definitely cares a lot about you know doing things defensively against EW and that's why we see continuous head to head competition of a Vennix T shows and worlds collide and things like that we're going to talk about a little later. I think it's it is worth it to them it is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in a year let's say to keep talent from AEW that's worth something to them. They're concerned with that yeah and we'll talk about this more because you know it does feed a larger strategy that is clearly in play by WWE but the best kept secret over the weekend. And is it WWE held two shows on Sunday I have heard reports of this I hope you can confirm but apparently they ran six hours of wrestling from the Bert Ogden Arena in Edinburgh Texas the final number was 5,581 at the venue from Russell Tix and this did air the NXT portion that is aired at 3 p.m. Eastern on CW and I would say smartly CW replay this at 7 p.m. which was after all in London.

36:56You got the replay number so how did heatwave perform and this was the second time that CW this is the second event in NXT's deal with CW. So this is really hard to analyze right because we only have the 7 p.m. replay not the not the live show do you think the live live because we should those ratings shouldn't be impossible to find this 3 p.m. I think it was lower I think that's the safe that but it's probably close to 181,000 viewers watch all three hours on average of NXT heatwave 281,000 viewers a .05 in the demo this is not what the TV show does right and this seven in P.m. airing this is a three hour show but I mean this is not surprising to me that the thing that is not it is not a thing that is not in that well worn time slot just does not perform as well but anyway it how does this we have a point of reference that's worth comparing it to the NXT great American bash PLA which is the first of its kind I think that air on CW right on June 28th that had 394,000 viewers 394 so this one doing 281 granted it was the second airing of the telecast on the day and a .07 in the demos with the great American bash.

38:16And that great American bash of by the way also did air against forbidden door that day as well so there was a of course head to head. Of course I mean that that's sort of the function here and it is a question worth asking if you are CW of the value of this deal and how much of this audience is being siphoned off where this is doing like a fraction of the Tuesday night television audience that I would think they would be at least going into this thinking well we for a monthly big show that we would at least be replicating what we are doing on Tuesdays and two shows in that is not in the case and you cannot argue that WWE is attempting to maximize this audience for NXT NXT is being used for a function and it's not to maximize viewers it is to you know it is to create a alternative for fans to watch something else on that day. And to give it some perspective of CW is probably happy with this number because I mean if we look at the now this is Tuesday this is what NXT does on Tuesday versus maybe this is everything else what is this what is this starts how NXT compares to other programming in prime time so it's the entire prime time year, year to date well 365 years 35 days in the past and the great odds here for people watching video are all of the Tuesday NXT telecasts.

39:42And all the green dots is everything else in prime time for CW just to just illustrate that the NXT is a really strong performer on CW relative to just about everything else so a point of six in the demo on a Sunday is probably pretty good for that time slot maybe CW is just challenging them to pick the hardest nights to draw because they are going to do Halloween havoc on Halloween night itself. Well you have to put yourself up against difficult challenges to improve so I mean NXT is all about the developmental. Well I hope they run they should do back to back weeks I think they should do Christmas Eve maybe they do a Christmas morning show and then they come back for New Year's Eve I think those would be the next the next events on CW for NXT sure. The next big date to circle is September the 26th when WWE and AEW will have not just a head to head contest but they are going to the same market of Hoffman estates and rosemond which for simplicity we're just going to be calling Chicago for the next month it is the battle of Chicago as all out will be at the now arena in Hoffman estates and worlds collide featuring CMPunk himself.

40:57Phil Brooks at the all state arena current numbers from Russell tics has all out at 7,131 maybe maybe you have a point I put this I pulled this from from the rustic's platinum tier which you can subscribe to if you're not if you're not already on it's the sort of higher tier for the rustic's patreon I pulled these numbers earlier today I got I'm just going to round 7,400 for all out and 9,800 for worlds collide. A difference of what is that 2400 about 2400 at the moment like I do not doubt that you know WWE is going to have the larger attendance by the time we get there in four weeks. All out has gotten their matches out already they will have osprey and moxley and a ladder match with Adam Copeland and Christian the young box and FTR so you know they're there certainly getting the lead on getting their match or the big matches announced but certainly worlds collide is you know it's going to have a punk match it's going to have main roster talent on it and don't know who punk is going to rest we do not at the moment but the gimmick of this show has been like like main roster talent against you NXT triple a talent.

42:15So what's the biggest man what's like the most cool match you can book a see a punk in on the show. I mean there's someone for triple a I mean there's certainly leading towards something with him and Grayson Waller who's the NXT champion now I did see that I played that in the background too. Grayson Waller has discovered his why. He's found his why the Obi-Wan John Cena has officially bestowed upon him the why but I mean for Chicago with the punk it's not like this was just automatic sell out either. I don't know if you know you can really take a whole lot from this if one is going to eat into the other but it's like these are you know it's the same market and this is probably the most aggressive head to head that WWE has programmed against going to the same market and we like this is for all intents and purposes a main roster show to a degree. Yeah I mean these shows are not I mean this is definitely the Chicago market having been to to Schomburg having been to what is now the now arena this is way out and sort of like the North West suburbs of Chicago but yes.

43:27As as we continue to psycho analyze WWE as we love to do how much faith do you think they have in the idea that next year is a W has its deal and then they are up for the option here in 2028 is do you feel it is a realistic goal of theirs that they can harm a W in such a way that either they are. Are harmed going into this this option I mean what what do you feel would be WWE achieving its goal here. I mean ideally for a W to disappear and go out of certainly get off of national major distribution television that would be good. I mean I think this could be a game of inches for all they know and you don't want to you know not get those couple of inches if that maybe that makes all the difference. Any given Sunday. I mean it might come down to something rather small that makes the difference between a decent renewal and a week renewal or a non renewal and you know I know WWE never focuses on its competitors but it focuses on its competitors and I think they want you.

44:42They want to save money and not have to pay down so much for one thing they want to not have to share the pie of attention in the rest of space as well. Why any talent would rate would would would would cheer this the strategy on would be beyond me but I don't think many talents are thinking of that level or caring at that level but I mean thus far. Like we're almost a year since the wrestle Paloza versus all out day that took place and you know and that followed all in Texas going up against the Saturday nights main event and you know when you add up all of these like AW is held up a lot better than I would have anticipated in a lot of these and certainly you know this past Sunday was you know an indication of it but you know this is I think WWE looking at the death by a thousand cuts method. Of just constantly putting these obstacles in front of AEW with the hope that they will trip up that some of this will be you know somehow cataclysmic for them that they are somehow viewed as a you know of their television partner not wanting this option here I don't know I don't think this is ultimately going to be successful but it is all going to come down to many different.

46:04Many different factors that will ultimately result in AEW being renewed or not to say nothing of this entire paramount acquisition that is in a stalemate position at the moment that all of this stuff is somewhat on pause at that level I mean like what's the cost I think the biggest cost we've maybe seen this would just be speculative right is that Saturday's made about no longer heirs on NBC was. Positioning serenity event against the AW pay for any factor in that if it was that's a serious cost but maybe it wasn't. Nonetheless I think there are larger issues just in terms of what that shows able to deliver in terms of your ship in prime time that was just wasn't as economical as the alternative. There's the counter argument that I could make that by WWE creating these head to heads is it in some way placing a focus on AEW like this is now the story is that well there's this competing product that is not it's not that's not the story there this past Sunday it was six hours of back to back wrestling and the center of the wrestling universe was even bird Texas.

47:17It's right I wonder what Monday sounded like like did it just not exist was I have no idea but but that that's a story I guess if I'm trying to play the views advocate ears that's a story that's in little podcast shows like like this though that's not the real world that's not what bill Simmons pat McAfee you're talking about. I don't think pat McAfee and Bill Simmons are talking about wrestling period so I don't know if that's the I don't know what the barometer is like we are in a space where we are going to be going off of like very very small anecdotal is what I'm saying is that the barometer is just attention and share of attention I think that's not the thing I'm not saying this is the right would look at this is maybe the solid look at. I mean they they're going to continue this like I don't think September 26 is going to be the end of this and I think they do it for seven years. Yeah and I mean all all focus is going to be on like next year whenever we get these Saudi dates for WrestleMania and I mean if you're reading that's why there are no Saudi dates yet I don't think it's because of a w I think it's probably they can't decide when to do their North American extra against.

48:33I cannot say 100% I would strongly believe that that's more probably of a Saudi Arabia logistics issue of when these events are. There was a long time for the Royal Rumble date to come out right I think so I think so as well like I think that would be more so the case rather than anything to do with AEW it was very much NXT focused well that that would indicate there is some acknowledgement. Yes sorry. Public we do know well let's say we believe in I think it's been reported right that AEW will tends to be protective of its pay per view dates because they're worried that they give us to be more time to decide what their counter program is going to be. Yeah and I mean we do know it wouldn't it be I mean if you're a w and you're you're jumping at the bit to find out what those dates are to strike against them wouldn't you be of the mindset of well let's not letting by no where that WrestleMania date is until strategic for us to do so.

49:34See that would be like that to me would be a case of like you are. Cutting off your nose to spite your face the idea of us keeping these dates a secret to guarantee money with whatever they're getting from from the Saudis for WrestleMania is guaranteed and it's not dependent on the draw right well I think. It depends how much your Saudi Arabia partners are hoping to draw tourists for this as well and you would want those dates out in advance if that's the goal and I would think for Saudi Arabia that is part of their strategy it's not necessarily WWE strategy they're being paid either way. This is Turkey say come on draw some tourists to be out I don't know. Yeah I imagine Turkey is just going to tweet out the dates and WWE won't even have a heads up that's my prediction that is a possibility that's a real possible. Very possible. The Middle East North American region a center that did result in a WWE lawsuit and settlement once upon a time shareholder lawsuit yes yes always always fun when a television deals.

50:44Can I give you a quick legal update on two issues there's going to be a hearing in the merger shareholder lawsuit I believe it's November 30th so there's not going to be a approval of the settlement until after that maybe from the bench there I don't know. Are you being summoned. I've not been subpoenaed no okay you should not subpoena journalists by the way also in the AW versus Nick Nemeth lawsuit to try to force some back and bar betrayed. And you know you're having some issues serving. Desi Nick Nemeth Ryan Nemeth. Rhymas. Rhymas not not not Nick Ryan TNA tag team champion Ryan Nemeth. Yes having issues locating and serving so as you know what people might know when you when you sue somebody you have to like personally get a career or something to serve them with papers they're having difficulty doing that they've asked the judge for a 90 day extension to. Wait they can't find Ryan Nemeth is that the problem they have tried to email his lawyer apparently his lawyer has not emailed him back but there's supposedly discussions and arbitration where they've acknowledged he's aware of the federal petition.

51:53Remember that was part of this whole case was that AEW had him served right before he was right to perform a play in New York in the original lawsuit to get this into arbitration what a winding road so they've tried to serve him like at his last known residents. We're not able to do it there then they found out some other residents that he was supposedly living at but have not been able to serve him there they've been emailing his lawyer to ask the lawyer if he will accept service on it on Ryan's behalf but they they found you know there there's an event page at TNA wrestling dot com they could have just they could have come up to say they could have come to they could have come to branch in last week two nights of opportunities well I don't know if you want to serve you want to serve somebody in Canada I'd have to consult a lawyer to know if that that is acceptable. But maybe the next the TNA tapings that that happened in the United States. I think San Antonio's coming up so they have plenty of opportunities to try and locate Ryan Nemeth well that's my legal update for this week.

52:54So eight W has partnered up with something called T O D not the tournament of death this is a streaming service owned by a car based BN media group which is the broadcast partner of MLW yes they will now carry programming from AEW this is announced on Thursday the T O D streaming service which was launched in 2022 will now host episodes of dynamite collision as well as other major live premium events. MLM and it does not have a start date listed but T O D also has rights to a formula one English premier league and UEFA Champions League as well as the US open so that is a streaming deal for AEW over in the meaner region. So does that mean we should hop on the VPN to see if there's any so is this immediate we know when the starts does not have a start date it's not been announced yet so. Okay, imminently as they would say you know you know there was how much consternation you think there was over this phrase major live premium events how much they how was there a media how many minutes were spent talking about this in a meeting.

54:08Probably an hour minimum and maybe caught could have given them a bit of a more differentiation from the because you can't call a pay per view that would be confused right I mean if this is not going to be a incremental transaction you probably should be calling the paper. I think you have to was to I think they were going with premium live events once they went to paramount and I think now it's just settled on number of events are there yeah because it distinguishes yeah I mean all these things are just part of the package now for them so. And folks if you are WWE stockholder and who isn't out there not us not us not us not us that would be unefficable they have announced their quarterly cash dividend pursuant to tqls class a common stockholders will receive their pro rata share of an aggregate distribution of approximately 150 million dollars which coincidentally is almost the amount of the settlement in the merger lawsuit. How many cents is that per share 79 cents per share I mean this happens every quarter this is not like unusual right they did reestablish the dividend just after the switch over so how many how many cents again 79 cents per share to be paid out September 30th how many now this is quarter quarter this happens four times a year this is not peculiar how many shares does Vince have.

55:32What's he at now four point something million. Owns tqo restaurant so we google that figure it out in just a second I think six million some odd shares let's get the complete number here. Now I haven't updated this shame on me to include Gregory Fennelon yes at last count now I don't know if you would have been required to make any disclosures if he's made any sales since since this last disclosure that we that we have. But he's got 6.4 million shares we both play that by 79 cents that's five million dollars just around it just over five million dollars he's getting every quarter not bad so that's total of what per year five times four 20 million over 20 million dollars he's getting just in dividends not bad. I mean he could just forfeit dividends for like two years and that would be his that would be his cover for the settlement. Yeah you can do that it's it's great to be rich isn't it. Well I think it's good to be it's good not to be poor then the richer you get the more you have more money problems.

56:37Said the notorious Brandon Thurston our final story folks maybe this is a teaser for a show to come but I was very busy in London England and. I got to speak with fellow Canadian speedball Mike Bailey if you ever wrestled speedball Mike Bailey I would have a hard time imagining you haven't been a bit on at least on shows with him over the years. No not to come to mind. I just feel like it was allowed in the United States that's true that's true yes I did wrestling Canada you know I don't. I was definitely at shows that he was at but I don't know that I was I think I was just visiting nothing others actually on the card. Yeah it's a it's a good point about the five year oh oh mission that might have kept you to apart but speedball has a lot of interesting thoughts when it comes to professional wrestling and also the way we are analyzing matches and what the body is capable of. The part of the like wrestling discourse that I hate the most is the assumption that there is a downside to so many things the assumption that as a wrestler I am a two of two space and once all the two spaces been squeezed out we won't be able to put it back in and that is false.

57:50I think AW is where the best wrestle and guys like me guys like how Fletcher were real fucking hoopers and there is we're not two space to where two space factories we will just keep getting better as we get opportunities. And I think that's what you've seen with AW I feel like pro wrestling will be getting better and better and the idea of going back to data and I was not talking about technology within pro wrestling right the information the data on how to have a good match. The intelligent wrestlers just collect it and build upon it and that's why you see pro wrestling not only getting better in terms of matches getting more exciting but I think what you see in AW is the combination of the matches getting more exciting on their own but also better stories than ever behind the matches and a way to make those matches that felt completely untenable 10 years ago. Because the technology was there but to be able to do those matches sustainably I think that is the combination that makes up all the rest of the I look forward to doing follow over you on the data analysis of a pro wrestling I would I would love to chat with Mike Bailey some more maybe we'll get a wrestle nomics spin off with Mike Bailey but great that be awesome fantastic I would love that.

59:14Speedball Mike Bailey who first of all true a real hooper I've heard your name is before he is a deep thinker he is a very deep thinker and I had many follow ups in mind but I was against the clock I mean it almost sounded like we talked a little bit after the interview and I mean we were talking a bit about like like lucha and there is like this this idea of these guys that only have like so much in them to do these types of matches and he comes up to add it from the whole different perspective that this is we just want the runway to do all of this and you can look at some of these lucha doors that are doing this well into their 50s and 60s and I mean there is some nuance there about the different types of styles and schedules but I mean if you are going to look at a style of wrestling like lucha like there are plenty of examples of guys that I mean they work a lot of them will rack up matches in trios in multi-man

1:00:14and but like a blue Panther who is still like incredible at his age as well and an interesting discussion I would be interested to talk with the others so I listen to that before you even told me about it and I realized sort of I think what he's asking for their imagining is like some data analysis around like what wrestlers do maybe it wasn't a clip that you just played but it was elsewhere in the interview what wrestlers do where they were in the interview and I think that's the way they work before they get signed and I have put together some preliminary I'm not going to tackle this completely now but we have this is this is the W this is like I think you tell me this is wrong let's just do some some data cleaning on the air tell me this is wrong so these are the wrestlers who I think this is according to the Smackdown hotel roster pages which seem to be pretty good you can go back in time anyway so the wrestlers who are added to the W roster the last whatever this is 25 or something and now this is the AW list so we have Chris my saying is right Christian XO is like the newest wrestler for AW

1:01:21She's with a Shane Taylor promotions yes David Finley Vina Crosse Clark Connors Steven Borden the sound right for AW the newest wrestlers yeah I would imagine like these are all people that came on in the last couple of months So I don't know I don't know if we have time to like dive into this I don't have strong takeaways but I guess one thing can probably see just by briefly looking at this is that there's a lot of wrestlers on the WWE list again this is like what if I actually like select this and do the counts like 30 31 that you can see on the screen for watching video and there's you know a handful who had no matches before Lil Yachty is this an influencer he'll have he's a musician who will have his first match on Sunday against Baron Corbin we have the deeply experienced Kiyoki Yes this is the former it took me a second to be like who that oh it's a robo this is a lot to Mason rook did have did did wrestle before yes now not Naraku who just evil of course but Lil Yachty no matches we just go down and call the people that no matches mark Nash I don't know that is that's he's he's he's just a ring announcer not a wrestler so there were some announcers on here that I should I should be excluding

1:02:39Kelly Armstrong Klee Armstrong is this a wrestler yes yes she has had matches okay now but before WWE oh before WWE that's that's what we're showing here right right Shiloh Hill no matches Osiris Griffin no matches yell at me if I didn't even answer Lani Reed no matches Dion Lennox these all NXT a lot of these are like LFG hires or it's people that have come up from ID programs so that's so yeah so that and the alternative a w the people who I have to find we have no matches prior to coming to a w being signed by a w so trying to get to big boom a J is that the dad or is that the son I don't know you're asking me I think that's the dad right in the dad do indies like way way back you're right so I don't know if they're document that they might not be documented because we're going back like 20 years when he was doing like New Jersey indies and not and I might have only reached back like five years or something so yeah yeah you're going back a long long time for big boom DJ Arcadia or that is that isn't an answer and it's an

1:03:45answer okay mother Wayne Nick Wayne's mother she has not had any matches correct so I guess I mean with what's not surprising to anybody is a w doesn't sign like athletes who are projects and I'll projects some like that and because yeah and they've to mix success like w either have been some that have come in and have performed really well like you know it's if he's strat is not the most season performer but like she has come in and like a brawn breaker another one he did he did a handful of indie matches but he was generally signed and I would consider him pretty much the most be born into the business that helps when you're when your dad is Rick sire yes but when you're you know at a you know potential NFL recruit it helps when you're a fantastic athlete that they do recruit heavily Rick Steiner had a match in 2016 this says I'm sure it was some Indian Georgia okay that was a and then he had another he had a couple other

1:04:55indie matches I thought I was showing sunscreen then he had a couple of their indie matches in Georgia in 2020 so did not have his first matches looks like he had a handful on the enemies. So there's an interesting like argument because part of my premise was that there are going to be a lot of performers that as they enter like speedball is someone that was wrestling for pretty much like 20 years before he got his a w contract which is obviously the biggest contract of his career. And I just think there's going to be 20 years is a long time he's sort of an extreme even by you know the standards of 10 years ago but. You're going to have performers now like an Avery styles is sort of an example of this a sting sun Stephen board and it's like if you are. If you catch any kind and if you have a name you're the son of a wrestler but if you catch a type of buzz like I think your development process is going to be jettison because there is going to be that desire to just sign you up by one of the major companies and you're not in that dynamic would not exist if there's just one major company.

1:06:03No no I think there would be less there would not be that concern that if we don't sign this person they will and instead of why we have this great super indie boom that's for some reason ended around the time of the pandemic. And from a cost savings perspective why not you let this generation. Learn on someone else's dime like let them travel the world like we don't need to sign a like these guys when a ring of honor exists or you have these guys that are. Not going to be they're not going anywhere and why should we have to invest in a performance center why should we have to invest in all these development years where we're not making anything off these talents they can go learn the craft on someone else's die as well that's not the case anymore. But it is an area of a w that like that to me would represent like a next initiative for a w to have more of a developmental system in place so that you could send a Stephen board and somewhere because ring of honor is sort of in this in between period where it's it's kind of that but it's not quite developmental either it's also just satisfying yet like full time talents that we have under contract to have a place to perform.

1:07:19I mean that my w starts to create these relationships with within these that's true that makes sense and you can sort of justify by saying it's more a w related content for my w. The future of professional wrestling with John Pollock Brandon Thurston and speedball Mike Bailey coming to a podcast sometime down in the future we will find out the toothpaste factories that would be the name of my wrestling school if I ever operated what the toothpaste factory. Something to aspire to alright we're going to say goodbye to everyone but thanks as always for joining us here for we finally have we finally have my cat cat is finally she's not looking to camera she did she's been on my lap for the next for the last 20 minutes or so so this is this is blossom blossom she's like she's born March wow a very she has two settings it's this very relaxed and bouncing off the walls. On a on a previous show after we wrapped up this innocent looking blossom nearly clawed Brandon's face off and like she got my like pretty good that that time yes this is a yeah there are never I've never lived with the cat before this is the first for me.

1:08:34I don't do pets it's not yeah I've heard about that yeah you hate animals. I don't hate animals but I I don't want to be responsible for one it's just it's too much. It's it's it's responsibility. Well I know everybody will speak with you next Thursday same time same channels for do go support patreon.com slash wrestle nomics you can also follow post wrestling.com and post wrestling cafe.com today way and I did our latest mail bag show answering plenty of questions for over 90 minutes discussing everything more LA Clippers talk. Oh I had more yes I was all deep on the coilandered Steve bomber situation as well and hey. What would have happened to Bruce or Brody if you lived what would his 90s run have looked like. All that more on ask away so check that out and we will speak with you next week.