89: No Laras Left Behind with Alix Wilton Regan

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1:08Lara Croft in the new version of Tomb Raider that is being made as we speak She's very exciting. We also talk about perfect dark and it's sad cancellation because Alex was of course set to play Joanna dark in the reboot and also we talk loads about her journey into acting and her experiences is one of the most Recognizable performances in gaming so sit back and enjoy this conversation with Lara. Sorry. I mean Joanna. No, sorry. I mean with Alex I guess the obvious place Alex is that the place to start was this always the plan. No was acting games the plan How did you end up here? Absolutely not in not at all. I did always want to act so I always want to be an actor That's true Even when I didn't really know what an actor was you know, I come from a very Long line of very intelligent doctors and lawyers and teachers and you know heads of years at primary schools and that kind of stuff in accountants and

2:09I wanted to be an actor. I've no idea why I wanted to be an actor So I don't even think a new one actor was but I kind of just always wanted to do it And I was very creative and I always went to like you know, Saturday drama kids like kids go to Saturday drama clubs that kids go to sorry and then I was desperate to go to a Stage school, which is called Sylvie Young, which is very well known, which is still he wanted you wanted to go to Sylvie Young did you? I wanted to go to which is like I think Billy Piper went there and all these are my parents being the middle-class professionals that they were like Absolutely not And to no circumstances Will that be happening so I got them to agree that I could spend the whole of Saturday there and I really did do I mean I did everything I did dance singing Comedy drama classes and just drama drama straight dramas was always my favorite And then I had this packed with my parents who just desperate for me to go to university And I always I said to them. Okay. This is what I'll do

3:11I will get straight A's in my A levels for you guys to prove that I could have gone to any university that I wanted and I will not go to university I will go to drama school and My parents one didn't think I would get straight A's neither did I to be honest and two thought by the time she's got her straight A's She will have seen the light and she will become a human rights barrister or something similar And I got my straight A's and I've got to drama school So March to my parents dismay So and then I went to drama school and then you know I did all my kind of normal classical training I did the Colton Hobbs Awards, which is run by the BBC Which is still going in as fantastic and as you probably know about it, don't you because you know what I was gonna say I I don't surprises because I know most of the things in the BBC but such a big organization They do all sorts of random stuff sometimes. So they run the BBC Radio Colton Hobbs Award. It's fantastic award all of the drama schools in the UK participate in it and they send their four

4:13I guess what the school considers you know their four best actors to represent the drama school at a national level Yeah, and so you're there with you know, Radar, Lambda drama studio where I was they all come together with their four best people You have a huge day of competitions and I won two special commendation awards. Oh wow. That's amazing Yeah, it was cool One was first Shakespearean monologue. Yeah, and contemporary due a log and Then when I left drama school, I did all my bit parts. I got my stripes I call that when you do casualty the bill hobbies. It's when you do like you know your Christy Jarls Yeah, have you did you have you ever been in a I get the Christie? You will what a one-point your career you will and can you please call me when you do because I bloody love an I get the Christie Okay, yeah, I have you I could see you as a murder an offense like In a very positive light step on this but in which he was intended Yeah, there's a very positive comment

5:14Um, and then when I was kind of doing all my stripes But I wasn't climbing the the career ladder as quickly as I wanted to yeah, I basically was like Oh, what about this voice stuff that I won these two awards for maybe I should try that Went out Submitted my voice real back then on CD that stands for compact disc children. Wow And I sent it off to all the you know the big agencies and yeah eventually got an agent First audition was Dragon Age Origins got it the rest as they say his history Look at that. It's so funny. Yeah, like it's a slight in doors moment Isn't that because if you maybe if you don't get that role, you might not eat my thing actually No, I'll just I'll just stick with the the activity procedures for a bit I oh like a huge amount of my career to bio where I love bio where I will down the hill of bio where Um, you know sides UK who was such an influential studio in London casting a lot of the triple A games

6:16Martin Vaughn who was there Sinny Dowling who used to be there as well, you know too big casting directors And they kept calling me in and I'm just super grateful You know and then they allowed me to build this big career that I now have um I've been incredibly lucky. I was talking about this last night with our dear friend Jane Perry who I know, you know, the BAFTA Yeah, of course. I was just saying, you know, I feel that we are so lucky To be in this position within the video game industry where we get sent these big scripts and these huge roles and these kind of Titans of characterisation that we get to perform because of course Not all games are brilliantly written just like not all film and TV shows are brilliantly written, you know No, everyone gets to play the parts that we play again same in film and television But her and I were just talking about like we feel so lucky that we get these big characters that we do enjoy that feel Shakespearean in their size, you know and complicated and messy and flawed and you know

7:18I hear assassin's creed origins I know because you were just talking to a boo recently like she's such a great example of a really flawed but interesting character So Shakespearean and its scope, you know and When you got that first draw in the in the game space is that when you sort turn to your parents and sort of when oh look at me I've kind of It's all working out. It's working out. Do you know what I mean? Because they must have been there must have been a degree of tension in your house So growing and then I was there's with teenage kids and you're Your often when people make decisions as in terms of their Their career that your parents are necessarily agree with that always causes tension was there a moment that that sort of The that dissipated Attention and confusion and deep confusion where my parents were like So what are they paying you to do? Well, I go in and I scream at drag But then like and it's a real sort of pretence. I'm like well, no, obviously it's a pretent sort because you know I'm in a studio guys. I'm not even I had to you know there were a couple of times where I brought them in to watch some of the games that I was doing

8:20So that they could sort of understand what what we were doing, but I think I have been surprised and humbled by Just how you know how far I've been able to go in the video game space Um how much I've loved and learned about the video game space. I think my parents understand it But they you know, they don't play games. They're they're not into that kind of stuff They were very pleased when I was opposite Glenn Close and the wife put it that way that was the career highlight for me You know Then they can that's the one where they phone Janet next door and say hey, Janet's look. You know This is what we've been doing all this time. Yes, that's that's the point, you know So it's why Why was it you think not to get too deep and meaningful? I suppose why was it you think that acting spoke to you So much is it because you've been fairly tunnel tunnel visioned about it, right? It's like you because I can remember Chatting to Melisante and she you know sort of came to her a bit later on and and she We're talking about her first role being a goat

9:22But you for you it was like oh early on he's like oh yeah Sylvia Young's school. Get me in there. Yeah Um, I think it was a combination of I really wanted to be you know seen as a child and her it's that classic thing You want your parents to see you and hear you and then I always remember I felt very Acting for me is so freeing Yeah, so that's clearly a part of me. You know the way people can meditate or some like you might go to the gym and lift weight or some Men Will be really into basketball and they'll play basketball to their like dripping with sweat and you get into the zone You get into flow yeah aside from you know desperately wanting my parents to see me And then realizing they were never going to approve of my choices anyway So you may as well do what you want And I'd say that with love I say that with love because I have fantastic parents, but um I get and when I act when I when I do good work I get into this very very connected flow state

10:28The only other times of which are like when I'm meditating or doing some insane kind of you know You're at some insane rave at three or four in the morning. Yeah, you know like really deep in the zone and That's what acting has always done for me at its best And I love it because I completely forget about myself It doesn't matter what's been going over what's been happening You know three minutes previous when I'm in that space I couldn't really tell you like where I live I couldn't really even tell you what I had for breakfast. I'm so there and I just love it It's like you put down the the coat of Alex you put down the shit of real life And you get to be someone else and there is just Nothing more freeing and that is true for you whether you're voice acting or whether you're given the Doing the physical side of it as well It doesn't really matter the end

11:30100% no because what I've learned about So first of all just take about one step when you go to drama school voice work is hugely important Or certainly it is here in the UK obviously don't know what American drama schools are like But you spend a huge amount of time in Classes that are called voice. It's just voice. How do you find your voice? How do you channel your voice? How do you use your voice? How do you protect it? How do you change it? And You realize through doing you know big brilliant bold beautiful video games That Sometimes if you're only working with your voice you are doing the most incredible things with it And it vibrates throughout your whole being Your whole body and you are sort of you know kind of channeling something From the gods up there if you're doing it right like if all the good pieces come together And you've got great writer great director great actor great studio support team You're kind of channeling a bit of the gods. It's a bit like when you hear like You know um monks when they do their throat singing

12:31Yeah, I mean it's like I can't do it but it's like I can't do it at all but it's super deep in there And these men do it and if you close your eyes in your list you listen like it touches your soul if you listen to The greats, you know If you listen to Whitney Houston Like if you really listen touch she will move your soul, you know She will bring tears to your eyes with what she can do in that voice people like her or Cynthia Rivo And I think that with that regard the voice is an incredibly powerful tool that we can use as actors And I love that and I work just as hard in the booth as I do outside it. I will leave sessions Sweating with mascara stains down my cheeks from real crying Because the voice is so powerful. It can you can say anyone watching this can sit that tonight and just like go And you can feel it down there and then you feel it drop down to you know your solar plexus your belly button your belly like all the way and you can feel

13:33Your self-fibrating Now most of my work Maybe not most it's for about a 50 50 split equally. It's peak app Which is obviously face voice body and then Voice or voice and facial capture is normally the kind of because it's quite easy. You have a cage on your head And the mics and stuff. That's a mad sentence. Isn't it you just there with a cage and that's a cage on your head Five just embodying a magician or a It or whatever it is you're doing that week. Exactly. And um, I just think I just think yeah, I feel really lucky sometimes Quite a lot of the time I would say I feel freer On the pcaps stage than I might do on a film or TV set Because film and TV sets And I've been so lucky. I've worked on some wonderful very very free sets like The wife with Glenn close and Jonathan Price, which was directed by a guy called pure and runger

14:36And he's one of those very free European directors who you know one day we finished four hours early And everyone was like what why are we finishing for a second? Wow because because we have it this magic it is perfect Is there anything else that's going to be fun? You know and I was like okay cool So we've got it says he says we got it. We got it. You know, yeah, so you do work with amazingly free directors like that and film and TV sets like that But a lot of the time it can be very constrained you have to sit right there, you know You can't move your head too much because it's a very precise angle for the camera. You don't want to lose your light You know a lot of it can actually be quite constrained Peacap is Super not gonna swear but insert a swear word Peacap is super beep free, you know, it's very very free. I love that and Do you think that it's given the recognition it it deserves in the in your world amongst your peers who maybe haven't who don't do radio dramas or don't

15:36Characters and things Yeah, I mean no unfortunately not you know everyone Most actors nowadays I would say do want to work in video games like I get a lot of questions about You know, how do I get into some really really big a list names that you know I'm not gonna out them on the podcast, but if I said you their name should be out Oh, yeah, I know exactly who they are. A lot of people want to do video games Um a lot of people understand the cultural significance of video games but It's no secret that video game actors are paid a small fraction of what film and TV actors are paid It's no secret that we don't get residuals. We don't get back ends So if a game gross is a billion dollars. Yeah tough. That has no impact on us Yeah, it like we don't we don't our talent our time our passion our professionalism is not Uh, what's what I'm looking for recompense does that the right word I'm looking for? Yeah, I suppose you're yeah in the same way as you are

16:39I'm telling you Yeah, it's not compensated in the same way. Thank you that it's not compensated in the same way that film or TV actors are Um, it's no secret that a lot of casting directors And this is true throughout the industry They will either stream you as a theatre actor a film actor a TV actor or a video game actor and it's very curious to me That an actor that is successful in any of those mediums is not automatically sort of You know auditioned for stuff in other mediums because I think essentially a good actor is a good actor, right Do you know what I mean like to assert next time like the the skill is different right the medium might be different But what you the the character creation the work you're doing in the in the first place is the same Yeah, and Jesse Buckley I've seen on stage and It is probably going to be an Oscar-winning actress. She's equally brilliant across the board You know as are so many people Idris is as captivating on film as he is

17:41Um on a TV show like Luther as he is in Cyberpunk, you know, yeah, so it's curious to me that casting directors Um Haven't tapped into that yet, and that's still the case as you're not seeing you're not saying you're not seeing that change I talk as I can but I've been doing this We started covering video games in 2015 I'm having similar conversations then and there was a sense of oh no, that's gonna change because you see In all these different actors doing it, but you you still get a sense all these years later actually We're still in our our prejudice in terms of video game performers I think yes, I mean I sort of I really tip my hat. I tell you who I tip my hat to I really tip my hat to the boldest gate three guys And I really tip my hat to people like Ben star and Iraqi ishi Who understand that they have value and they understand their significance within the video game Community and they have brought themselves front and center to the conversation by using social media in a way that certainly

18:47Uh, in a in a way that certainly like I I haven't really quite been able to get myself to do that yet and in a way that I didn't understand until quite recently And in a way like this might sound really ridiculous because I'm on your podcast And I about to play Lara Croft's so just bear with me as I go through this story But it's like I didn't realize that I was a big deal In the video game industry Until people like Ben star who I watched become a big deal Would meet me at an awards thing or something, you know, he was like he's like mate You're a legend like you you're like you're incredible and I was like really and I obviously knew who Ben was from watching him rise without understanding that like Sometimes my work could inspire other people that this was possible You know Meeting Iraqi ishi for the first time during this award season You know meets me comes up screams in my face hugs me and calls me an icon with all of this wonderful energy that they have

19:54And I was like but you're an icon and they're like no but you're an icon and it's only from people doing that that you realize Oh, yeah, maybe I have had a sort of In I have had a significant impact on people at points But because I wasn't really utilizing social media and because traditionally video game companies do not promote their talent I hadn't felt that impact personally. So that's interesting So there's there's maybe there was a role in for games as an industry to try and make stars to compete with Hollywood rather than try and steal Hollywood stars Oh my god, I'm going to steal that for my next interview That's really good. Yeah, the way that you said that I'll take 12% you take 12% is 12.5 if you want to know But that yes, there is a space for games companies to make their own stars Rather than stealing them from Hollywood remember also we cost a lot less money guys I

20:55But actually in all seriousness, there was one other thing that was going to come to me what I found fascinating was that the game awards this year Seeing people's names across the screen in particular. Do you know who did it very well? The indie companies because the indie titles They understand that they need to put you know Debra Wilde Ben Star Whoever else up there and people will scream Because they know and love these actors and they want to see all this glorious talent and passion and power and professionalism They're going to bring to these roles. Yeah, and the indie companies know that it's smart to tap into that I thought that was a Fascinating beautiful and genuinely kind of long overdue Change that is needed in our industry. I was super encouraged to see that at the game awards this year It was really encouraging now you mentioned them just it's a bizarre that it hasn't happened before You know some of these performers that have been doing such good work for so long. Yeah

21:56If we go back to a little bit about just this journey if we use that sort of As a rough timeline for our chat and then we can just hop off into different things as they as they come up First of all is is Dragon Age And you're in it you're loving it. It's gone really well Yeah, did you does that make you then as a performer to say you know I'm going to focus on video game performing now always that you take in anything that's come if I kind of Not really. I was just I felt so lucky to be working. Yeah, I felt so lucky to be working I felt so lucky that I didn't need to wait for us anymore I didn't need to wait behind a bar anymore. I could stop being a childminder in my spare time So I felt you did all the jobs in Alex fair play you did all of them. Oh yeah, babe. I did all the jobs I was the worst one What was the one the mean thing? I'll thank god Cleaning out the toilets cleaning out the toilets at the end of a shift in the pub or in a restaurant There's always quite grim And then seeing weird things like when a parent would change their child's shitty nappy

23:01In the big gardener's like mate just take it with you Just don't leave it on the floor for someone else to clean up. That's bad form. It's terrible form Thank you, you know So that was bad form and then of course everyone used to smoke right in all the pubs. Oh, of course You would stink honking you would stink, you know um So I was just so happy to kind of leave all of that and then I was so thrilled With the quality of the roles and the writing that I was being given and I would say that was actually the point that I started to really focus in on video games more It was probably that probably one of the big turning points was Samantha trainer in mass effect three because that was such a great written role It was so interesting and it was when I went and of course because she's gay It was so interesting to me to be out there representing that as You know sounds character being only a gay woman I thought it was such a brave choice So then I was like, okay, who is this buyer where company having already done three games with them

24:03But then I really want to know more Do you know what I mean? But then I read that but I really wanted to know more I really want to be part of the next project And I think that it was around then that I started taking it all more seriously because I was just getting a such a kick from it as an actor as an artist I was like this is great. I'm going in there's blood the sweat. There's tears fainted a couple of times You know because I'm breathing too quickly All right, you know, so I didn't think about that. Yeah, there was a it actually it actually the first time it happened was Dragon Age Inquisition. There's a part where the Inquisitor has to trek through snow And it's cold, so you start going And if you keep doing that for like a minute your body tenses up you're not getting enough oxygen and I just kind of know you guys And I think I'm okay, you know So it was yeah, I would say sound trainer was the big turning point where I really went

25:04I want to actively do video games good video games more video games um I start thinking about a couple of games you don't want to do you know you get offers for projects that you go You kind of have like a weird raping scene in that game and I don't want to support that You know, I mean stuff stuff like that you you also have to think about stuff you don't want to do. Yeah Have you found that you know with the industry in terms of like it's Because it's a younger industry, right? It's not it's way younger than telly and and movies for example I know I know I know the compare something we get frustrated when I when you make comparisons to do them With those industry, but we do have to kind of make the comparison to it because that's what we're sort of we're working towards right um Have you found because it's a younger industry in that sense that there's been a lot of times where you're like Oh, that's not cool Why are we going for that and have you been able to have those conversations and how's that changed? It's it's a great question. So Okay, the video games yes are a younger industry and so in many ways

26:10We have old and outdated practices that just wouldn't fly on a film and TV set Your classic examples um You know actors are paid better on film and TV they get their residuals You always have highly qualified stunt people coming in you know and the stunt people get breaks There's intimacy coordinators all of these things on film and TV we feel able to discuss them and we feel able to enact them because of unions like sag and equity then you have the younger Medium of video games coming in for me. It's actually a really simple Circle to square you just have to pass the contracts over it just has to be the same rules However, you're treating actors on film TV and stage. That's how you should treat them on video game sets That's my personal feeling. I think most people would agree that is now filtering down which is great to see you can ask for intimacy coordinators We have the best stunt teams on the productions that I'm working on

27:11We will look out for each other. We will protect each other. So that feels very good I find it really encouraging a lot of the people that I now see that are our age or younger coming up in the video game world So you've got a lot of Narrative directors who are women you've got a lot of game directors, you know gameplay directors who are women You've got a lot more diversity in terms of casting and characters and you know a lot more Accurate casting for example as well like if you want a Just a really simple thing having done some mentorship with Some black and southeastern women that I've been mentoring for like five years now, but they're friends I don't they don't need my help anymore. They're all doing better than me But you know a really simple difference of when they started it was just can we get a black actress and they were talking to me and they're like We're not being funny, but like one of us has got Jamaican heritage You know the other one had Nigerian heritage. It's completely different. It's not the same

28:13So even honoring something like that like the difference between someone whose parents might have come from Jamaica And whose parents might have come from Nigeria. It's totally different. It's different You know and just differentiating that within casting. I think is really important But then what's fascinating is I do see a disconnect between Dev companies that are Really always quite lovely or having quite lovely to me and then potentially Much much much much much much much higher up the people that I never meet or see or talk the faces the faces The faces executives the faces executives when it just comes down to You know a bottom line a bottom number while we can't pay Alex the same amount as the lead man because Yes, please do enlighten me. Please finish that sentence to me. Do you know what I mean when I'm doing exactly the same job as them or What's another one? Oh not telling me about really graphic sex scenes, you know that I'd have to do like I don't think that would fly nowadays

29:20But what's interesting is I think I don't get the impressions that it's the devs doing it I get it's I get the impressions it's pressure from higher up being like you got to move faster You've got to get it done quicker and that's where safety and standards obviously laps So that's sort of answer your question for you. Yeah, no, it's interesting because I just think as as it gets as the industry mature People think of it now as a mature industry doesn't it's making extra money more money than music and film or whatever That that caught was that we've used for so long But it is interesting the you hear stories not just from yourself But from other performers who have spoken to in the past say that sometimes There that doesn't seem there the front end shiny glitzy industry that everybody loves and spends time with doesn't money up with With the work that goes into making it if you know what I mean It's like If you were to look at how the sausage was made you would be astounded sometimes by hosts perhaps old-fashioned It is on the back end of that makes sense Yeah, absolutely and I think what's also really interesting is I do place Jesus. I hope I've got this right

30:22I do see people Wanting to listen more. I do see the higher ups like they're definitely trying There's definitely there is there is a willingness to try and listen, you know, yeah I also recognize I'm in a very privileged position that I've played some very important characters I'm in a very very you know privileged position that a lot of the time when people come to me now There might be a dragon age fan or a mass effect fan or they've played a game and so they they know What I do so I do get given a lot of trust from directors And I do feel able to speak to writers and say I don't know if that's going to work Yeah, what I would say for anyone that's watching us that it that's watching this that is you know a writer a director or video games Or wants to be or even someone that's based on a in a in a video game company whether it's an indie or a triple-a Conglomerate collaboration is key collaboration is everything It is always where you get the best work from everyone your writer your director your actor your producer if you talk to each other

31:28It's what gives you gold, you know, it's not about it's it's not about control and squeezing something so tight that you deprive it of oxygen That doesn't work, you know people love The Bayek and I a story because a boo and I was such sensational collaborators on it, you know as was the team that we had from Ubisoft at the time Yeah, I truly believe that collaboration is Just everything and I think that's how I that is certainly how I walk on to the peak app stages in the spirit of collaboration Absolutely, you know every everyone's voices valid and everyone's voice is important. It really is Now you've touched on some of your um one of your Rolls-in other sassesqueer. We've talked a little bit about Dragon Age You mentioned you you know mass effects cyberpunk 27 you've been in some amazing Um it games obviously that have helped you have sort of cement this reputation in the in the industry as the person They turn to to be the new ladder craft which will come onto in a set which will come onto in a second

32:30Because no doubt to be loads of people are too intense to give When are they talking about craft? To the chase power get to the good sir. We'll come on talk. We'll learn in a moment But so lots of things have gone right Alex, but we can't sort of sit down and chat and not talk about one of the things that went wrong as well, right? So I think I know where this is going. Go on. Yeah, I mean I was sad because I loved perfect dark when he was on the n64 I still remember setting up those laptop guns in the multi-player version and and stitching my mates over and Joanna d'Arc such a fascinating character How frustrating was it for you then when that all went so It's heartbreaking. It was awful. I'd been working on it for When did it finally when did it finally finally get shelves 20 25? I'd been working on it since 23 So it was awful. I guess horrible. It was it was gutting um I

33:31Unfortunately, I found out about it in the wrong way. I found out about it in the press. Did you? Yeah, I did when messages started coming through from um from friends in the industry and And then I actually got and then I actually had some very very good and constructive calls with some men who are very high up at the initiative who you know Apologised for not telling me directly, but then also explained that they were still looking for financing elsewhere Which is why they hadn't called me because actually it wasn't completely over um It was very much a case of those two months where we were kind of waiting to see if it would go through with take two Yeah, so it basically it wasn't over until the fat lady sung and then unfortunately the singing started and it was over Over and that was that was crushing that was when it really hurts because I realized there was no hope anymore But a crushing because you put all that work in because you were hoping people would see it What was what was the reason because for me I was just treating because I

34:32I didn't get a chance to have a fun experience for 25 hours when as you put your heart and soul into something Yeah, crushing because So first of all I knew the story like I really knew the story inside out, right? And I loved the story and I was like, oh my god. This is great. Like people are genuinely gonna love this Second of all crushed because I didn't get to relaunch an iconic character who I'd also know I'd never played the games when I was younger, but I'd seen them. I knew them You know, I knew of them. I also I loved the character in terms of she was so much a Londoner She was very close to me to who I am yeah and So it was a lot of fun and on top of that we had a really great lead writer It looks fantastic. Oh, so remember I knew the cast at this point. I knew I can't say who the other people were But it was gold was gold, you know, and so it just felt so I thought really I felt a very I felt confusing emotions of like

35:33Rage that they could pull the game so far Rage that the game could be pulled so far into development Heartbreak that we were losing This ecosystem of brilliant workers and brilliant artists who were coming together to you know build something so great And a genuine disappointment of like I feel like you you just touched on it right I've had this experience with perfect dark That you're never going to get to experience and I know how good it was and I was like you would have loved it Of course, you know, so it was a very it was a lot of curious emotions And I think the real heartbreak actually came when the kind of hope disappeared And we realized that it was not coming back in yeah any capacity You know, it might in the future if they do something else, but certainly yeah, not this iteration I think which is really sad how close was it to to be finished That I actually don't know the answer to but in terms of your work was your as your work My work no, we still had a fair old fair old whack to go But it also it it depends on how you define it in terms of like I'd done peacock for it

36:37I'd done VO sessions which which is VO sessions, which is when you do your lines of like look out over there Get down you know, so quite often you don't do the pizza for the cut scene. She's doing lots of voice over which I'd done Um, I've seen loads the gameplay Uh Yeah, so I can't actually say how much how much was done because also remember the way we get hired We don't know how to bring the pro projectors. It's my soul my soul man. It's a big any sense to me I know that we've done entire chapters where I could tell you the whole arc of that chapter And I know where it was going as a story But you know Yeah, it's not like we get a whole script like in film or TV and then we can go okay We've shot two thirds of the script, you know, or we're a quarter of the way through the script It just doesn't work like that in video games No, you've you obviously or you will be Sort of coming out this from a particular perspective because you were in the thick of it You were playing the lead character you'd put your heart to the work that you'd already done for it Compared to sort of other work that you've done did you think that it would work

37:42We were you thought that they would have been a success. It would have been a success. I was Absolutely blindsided. I was So confused. I was 10 out of 10 confused. I think I was I was 10 out of 10 confused. I was blindsided. I did not see it coming I knew that Microsoft had made cuts at to other companies over the past year But perfect dark had always survived And then one day we just didn't Yeah, you know And I think maybe I thought I think maybe I thought we would survive Why did I think we survive? I think I thought we would survive because it was just really good And everything seems to be working You know, and everyone certainly look I see this much of the team. Of course. Yeah, of course I'm seeing the writer the director the pcap producers But that was all working and what They would send me to look at all worked so to me. I just assumed it was

38:44I Yeah, I would have put money on it going put it that way. Yeah It just shows you just the The cutthroat nature of of the games industry at them especially at the moment right we get a lot of I mean, it's interesting for a lot of people who listen to a pod or follow along They you know gamers for them is is a fun experience a bit of escapism is something cool to do of an evening or whatever But I think it's interesting that You can't really separate the state of the industry and people's ability to go and spend the time doing fun things Because it does you can sort of see the pipeline of stuff can't you and there's gonna be a big Perfect dark size hole in it now. I suppose because of just how cutthroat the it's all got with bottom lines and big Companies owning stuff and please remember that just as in any industry, you know, there might be someone Who's listening to this that's a mechanic or a dentist or a teacher or a nurse Just like in every ecosystem if you want a hospital to run. Let's say you're a nurse. You need

39:44Portas to take the patients to and from you need cleaners to keep the wards sanitary and safe You need flabotomis to draw blood. You need nurses to check vitals. It's a whole ecosystem right It's it's the same with the video game, you know, there are so many different departments and so many people doing different things And each one of those person has maybe a child to feed a mortgage to pay You know a pet but they love that they want to pay the vet bills for So it does it cuts very very deep these kind of massive acts of I guess I don't know people talk about the word consolidation a lot which I don't really understand because I don't work in business Yeah, people want you to throw this term around and sort of fear it, you know um Great art takes great collaborators and actually the best video games that sell Masses if you're only interested in the bottom line You still have to create a piece of art that's interesting that moves people that people find exciting. Yeah

40:46Does that make sense? It doesn't have to be this traumatic story But it does have to be either exciting or engaging it has to deeply deeply move you in some way If you if you do that and you make you get that little secret sauce that makes something brilliant That's how you sell millions and millions of copies. That's how you make billions of dollars Yeah, I just I'm just it was a decision. It sort of really made me realize just how stark The choices are being made at the top end of the industry Moment and also just we know video game development is expensive. Is it unsustainable? Probably and it's in that top end bracket. So I think there'll be How it impacts the sorts of games we see going forward. I think it's fascinating Um well Let's do one more controversial Oh seemingly controversial topic before we finish on a high with with with your new two-moder news I've seen you share a lot about um on your On your social media pages alibo AI's rolling gaming and in culture more broadly

41:49Um, how do you how do you feel about the use of Of artificial intelligence in the moment and and I mean, I just my social pages are full of AI's slop videos all the time But what what what are your concerns about it or what's your take on the situation? Uh, my take is AI is really fantastic if you want to use it to do mammograms on women and detect the earlier stages of breast cancer Let's go save some women's lives Let's go save some moms that have kids to raise my take is AI is brilliant if you You know want to get know the quickest way from A to B and avoid traffic because you got to get to your son Who's you know playing a really important football match that you don't want to miss my take is that AI is great when used responsibly Um, but to use AI to replace To try to replace art and artists seems to me one Just not a very effective use of AI and to just it's so stupid

42:54Like if you're going to create these robots Let's create these robots these aIs to do the really boring stuff that we don't want to do in society to create Let's use AI to save lives or do the really dull jobs that humans don't want to do all the really hard jobs The really unsafe jobs, you know like the robots that kind of go and clear up land mines in war zones when once the wars finished like do that Don't use it to to try to replace artists. I think that's absolutely nonsense But um Troy Baker I saw Troy Baker said something very interesting very very recently Which is AI can create content But actually it cannot create art it can try to create art, but it's not creating art. Yeah, you know And I think to add to that I would say first why I agree with his point and second why I would say You know, yeah, okay, great. You swept the internet for the sound of a woman laughing You know, and you're trying to recreate it and

43:55steal it you're stealing things from people AI innately Deprives the author of ownership over what they did you can't consent that's really gross and really weird, you know And I just think okay if you're not going to protect Us will be responsible with your AI tool Then I think we shouldn't be investing in your platform or supporting you You know, it's it's um it's definitely a live conversation is going on in terms of there's the impact on on the art that we consume and yeah And it's impact on on people's roles. It's definitely a big conversation in order that you be having And over the coming months and years probably in your profession isn't it in terms of its relation to actors and stuff And but let's finish on something a bit more fun and positive. Tell me about What happens when you get an email? I don't know if it comes from your agent or if it comes from the production company or whoever and it says So hey Lara Croft, do you fancy it?

44:56So first of all, it was a call That my agent set up not that unusual Zoom call slightly unusual, but I was like, okay, she wants to chat face to face And I log on to the zoom call and she's not there. It was the casting director And it took me a moment and I was like why is Kirsten there? Why is Kirsten in there? Oh my god And I started screaming I was like, but then I kind of couldn't talk Because I think we were waiting for my agent to join the course. I was like, I How are you? I said this is like the really good news This is really bad news and they're going to be like you were down to the final two Um But when they gave me that call yeah, I screamed I cried I you know burst into a ball of magical fire and all the rest of it So you didn't have to like do an audition or put this a forward for it They were they were casting the industry and they picked you. No, I had no, no, no, I had rounds and rounds and you Well, I thought you know, just I thought they'd be like, no, we won't hurt. No, no, no, um, I mean, I think

46:00I think the devs did know my work which really really helped They are all gamers. They'd played a lot of my stuff So I think I was definitely a suggestion that they put forwards But no, no, this was after four rounds of auditions. Sorry. I should know I should have I should have thought about it No, no, when I had four rounds of auditions before I got the job And so when I logged on it was either going to be very good news or very bad news And so that's why you need the casting director at this point. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, but it is The average is this version of Lara something we can um The we can relate to and into the sense of something we've seen before was a brand new Bit of both I would say and a genuinely. I'm not saying that to be um Convoluted. I think it is genuinely a bit of both. There's a lot of There's a it's sort of like The phrase that I'm working with is no Lara's left behind Okay, so I like my terrible like no Lara's left behind, right? I've looked at all of the performances

47:01Obviously, I've got all the scripts. I know where it's going and you know, I think there's um All of the Lara's that have previously come before will also be informing this one as we move into a new era of Tomb Raider I would say I genuinely think That fans are gonna love it. I want to insert a swear word But it's brilliant. It like it's brilliant. I know what we're making. It's brilliant It's brilliant. I think you're all gonna love it. We're wherever you fall whether you're like, you know The original the remasters the classics the survivor trilogy What wherever you fall on that kind of spectrum It just yeah Yeah, I think you're gonna love it. Yeah It's just fascinating with games and it is that the gestation period of making a game is so long Yeah That you've got to sit with you see I can write I had to sit with secrets when I was making the Behind the scenes programmable doctor who I'd have to sit with secrets for like a long time I don't know how you guys do it when you've got to sit you go yours probably until we're gonna see some of this stuff

48:05And it's all in your head the whole time you've got to be on you've got to be in constant spoiler alert for the next four or five years or whatever Yeah, yeah It's um You know, there are some games in the business Where actors call them. They're like come on friendie Amy friendie Amy. So NDA but friendie Amy Yeah, yeah, this is this is what I was games you know friendie This is this is one of those games. You're like I can't talk about and everyone's like, but why are you in LA for so long? Because it's all shot in LA. It's all four months captured so shot in LA, but why you in LA so long I'm like Ah So then it got to the stage where I had a code name for the game A code name for the character and I were lying. I was lying to my friends faces And like I was like I was like this wasn't the code I can't tell you the code name because it's so cringe But like The code names of the so cringe, but let's just say it was like banana moon. I was like, oh yeah

49:06It's this game and like it's code name banana moon and I'm playing the lead character banana She's British they were like why are they getting all that I was like, oh she's like she's British so you know kind of makes sense and yeah, you know Um But yeah, yeah Amazing and actually wait stephanker to you one nice thing. Yeah, I did listen to I've listened to a few of these podcasts for Press X continue, but I specifically listened to your Lara Croft episode Look at that and you had the lovely Clellum on the show who are like very much talking about the cultural significance of Lara Croft And I think what was you know, it really made me reflect like Lara is not a video game star. Lara is a cultural icon. Yeah, it's amazing. I could have I did a piece for For BBC News website when I was full-time there about 25 years of of Lara Croft And we had some amazing access to like early concept art of hers and yeah, you're right like the first The first gaming character probably to really cut between like

50:09Mainstream home, you know, British culture. Well, wasn't it you that said she was on the cover of like over a thousand magazines more than any More than any Hollywood Maybe star. Yeah, or supermodel. It was it's quite it's quite the character and and so no pressure Alex to step into those shoes These are some big boots. Yeah, well all the best we can't wait to see it and obviously we'll have to have you back on when you when we can talk a little bit more about it But it's been a joy having you on press X to continue. Thank you very much for for being so open and sharing so much with us Thank you for having me. Bye guys Well, thank you very much for listening you loyal members of the continue club and you loyal XC beasts Now remember to get involved in our conversations on social media Press X podcast and press X pod and TikTok and Instagram Get involved in the discord as well Like and subscribe as much as you can we should be asking you to do that more actually So please do all of that and we will be back with you for another episode on Tuesday. Bye

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